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A huge fear I have is if she lives happily ever after with the replacement who is now her husband. I will never know as I have remained no contact for over 3 years. I went through the usual idealization phase with love bombs and "please marry me now!". I got split black in the worst way when she dumped me for my ex best friend. When I tried to "win" her back, she lashed out like a scared animal by calling the police and filing a false restraining order. That was the worst experience of my life. Shame and guilt consumed me for dragging my feet in not marrying her when I was being idealized.

My ex best friend reached out to me to tell me he felt she was crazy. She is now married to someone else. I should feel indifferent about her after 3 years. I was the one she wanted to marry. My gut instinct told me there was something "off" about her. She was so desperate. She gave me a marriage ultimatum after 5 months of dating. It all went down hill from there. I later found out she filed for bankruptcy after she painted me black. I had no idea she had those kind of money problems.

I am trying to take care of myself but I still think of her. If she remains happy in her marriage, then maybe she isn't disordered at all. She seems to move on quickly while I remain stuck.  

Hi, i'm sorry but where in this does it sound like she has moved on? your friend said he thinks she's crazy? He didnt pull that from thin air? He obviously wen't through some kind of issues/abuse to come up with that thought? She has gone bankrupt and married to someone else? that doesn't sound like soebody living a peaceful drama free life. Yes you may not be married now but that"s a normal thing to not just go marrying people who will accept it? I do get where your coming from and why you feel the way you do, but from the outside looking in, it doesn't seem like shes got the upper hand here?

I know what you mean... .you just want to know if the new person is dealing with what you did. I do too. I am told it absolutely has to be happening... .just differently because the new person may handle things in a different way. i feel like my exes gf still does;t know exactly what she is dealing with yet, but I do believe deep down she is dealing with the drama... .it just has to be. he is who he is. People don't change, some people just don't see what is in front of them in the same way... .I think that the three years are eating your up too. I can't believe mine has been with his gf a year and a half and have a whole "family" with a baby and two dogs. Its like I never existed.

This is a very common question and a lot of peoples biggest fears. I went through it myself. If shes not crazy then it must be me. Well she has remarried and even though her public face is all is wonderful in the world the reality is different. Our soms now live with me and want nothing more to do with her. She cinstantly moans about her husband unless theres someone else to moan about. She even called me three days after their wedding to moan about him.

They cannot be happy as they cannot cope with stability.

I sat down and thought about what if by some miracle she really was happy. My answer is so what. I dont want her back and dont care what she gets up to. Happy or miserable it has no effect on me.

Thanks for your responses. Self doubt is my biggest enemy. I think she feels marriage is a fantasy to solve all of her problems. As enlighten me stated, I want to have the feeling that I just don't care anymore. That must be a great peace of mind.

BPDers can run but they can't hide.

My stbxBPDmil has been married to a NPD for some 15 years. I don't think her marriage has much quality, she used to always trash him to me when she was splitting me white. I recall her referring to him as an as?$&@e many times. Told me she would divorce him if he treated her unlike the way she wanted and take him for every penny he had, sounds like extortion to me.

My stbxBPDw split me white for almost 8 of the 12 years I knew her. I gave her security and stability by being codependent to her during that time. But then came the job losses and the death of our 25 month young daughter and devaluation set in. Then of course came the discard and replacement.

I think my stbxBPDw has this disease bad, the nightmarish horror show included her being arrested multiple times with multiple charges and convictions including DV, child endangerment, public drunkenness, and more, much more happened that she did not get arrested for. The more I learn every day the more I realize I need NC as much as possible considering we have 3 children together is the ultimate answer.

I tried getting answers from a T who knew about her situation and saw her more than me only to say "she has some traits of BPD." So if you suspect she has BPD take this knowledge as a gift. I know it hurts, it's painful, and it may get worse. Personally, I wish I knew what I know now because I would have prevented exponential pain and suffering if I would have known the signs of BPD during my engagement period.

Bolt away from her and never look back. Use the tools your brothers and sisters posts here at bpdfamily, they have helped me so much to pick up the pieces and go home.

Very recognizable, I'm in this phase as well, although it has been only three months for me. Mine primed my ex best friend as well during the relationship, someone who had little experience with women and has low self esteem (which he compensates by boasting, even to friends about sabotaging my relationship ) and is a probable narcissist. You have a lot strength, talking to your friend, I can't imagine I can stand being in the room with him for the coming year(s).

Although mine hasn't been diagnosed not even while being evaluated by a psychiatrist, there is no doubt in my mind she has a lot of traits of BPD. I'll guess that'll have to be enough for me and it should be reason enough not to get involved with her when this relationship fails (and that is very likely in the long run). My problem is that the feelings for her were deep, in time I even wanted to have children with her, so I can understand you thinking a lot about her. I do it as well and miss her deeply. My second problem is that I'm mad as **** towards that dude, he doesn't deserve to be with my girl. Everyone but him.

But hey, what can you do about it. Just don't wait around for her too long, she doesn't deserve that. Eventually we have to move on, although it's difficult.

Thanks for your replies. Maintaining no contact, I will not know if she is currently happy. She married a sugar daddy who is retired in his mid 60s. Her parents bought a home for them so I don't think he comes from much money himself. I think I will be much more better of if I reach the point of not caring anymore like some of you have. If you no longer care, the pain is gone. I should have reached that point by now. I have had my therapist and countless others try to convince me that I dodged a bullet. If only I can believe it myself.

I have to say that the pain is not necessarily gone when you no longer care. I'm told that because we had visions of our relationship that is different than reality- we are actually mourning the loss of a dream. That's the part to cope with. They can go torture someone else and we can be glad they are gone, but we still had a loss- that's what you need to deal with.

hi bud its over

but you dont seem to have that mindset 

you seem to be holding on for a fantasy of making her happy will make you happy

it dosnt work like that you have to work on yourself

you need to move on and work out what will make you happy

i know it is hard and a long road but we are here for you

What I always find curious about this board is the confidence many members have that people's exes will return, and the absolute certainty others have that they won't.  It's really an interesting dichotomy, and I guess it really is impossible to tell, but from what I've heard repeated time and again is the fact that they never truly detach, so it seems it's more over and finite for you than it is them.

hi

they seem to attach to the best prospect to get what they want

and reality is distorted to achieve this

if you are strong go NC and dont allow them to re write history, they will paint you black and not come back!

this is what i have done but it was not easy and it broke my heart, but the knowledge that she had broken the no cheating boundary in our relationship before we split made it a lot easier despite her continued denials!

in the words of nelly boswell

"SHE IS A WHORE!"  lol

My ex once messaged an ex of his after we'd had a massive argument that had resulted in me going out to a party without him (we were supposed to go together, he then refused and got drunk at home on his own). He wrote "I think I need to talk to you." in the message to her. When I asked him about it, he of course came up with some lame excuse as to why he'd sent her that. She was married (!) at this stage and we'd been together just over a year and a half.

I believe that's my proof that there's always a chance you hear from them, although I'm of the 'I'll never hear from him again' camp. But when I remind myself of that incident I realise that you never really know when you'll be painted white and needed by them. It used to trouble me somewhat, but now (I think) I'm strong enough to handle whatever potentially comes my way.

Hopeful.

You were in a r/s with someone who lived in a fantasy. A make believe world, see a Disney movie.
PwBPD splits persons in good and bad and there is no middle ground!
Therefore in every partner pwBPD have the push – pull or the known  I love you – I hate you.
There whole life pwBPD will seek the ‘I love you feeling’ out of survival instinct, their coping.

Now in the beginning of a r/s pwBPD seeks and receives that good feeling by the new attachment:
Rescued:  as ‘finally one that understands me’ or ‘the best ever happened to me’
Mirroring: the chameleon to keep the new interested and having lack of identity themselves.

Why? For survival, as the good feelings rewards them and keeps the new attachment hooked, almost at whatever it takes.  All in order to avoid their biggest fear, being abandoned.

But devaluation will set in, sets in long before the ‘non’ ever notice. Just for futilities (like not showing enough interest in new cloths). That accumulates and accumulates, still without you notice it, until the so called testing you will begin.
Circular arguments, being embarrassed, being more and more criticised. All testing you ‘real love’ for that fear of abandonment.
The devaluation in full glory, however you still wondering what is going on… for months, for years even…
 
That triggers their fear and sets in the other identity they create, the bad one, you can’t be trusted, you don’t  love enough, etc.
Short, you failed! Like her parents failed, like every one else failed.

Now to avoid those feelings and the anxiety pwBPD will seek reward outside the r/s.
No not necessarily by cheating (although it seems to be more than common), it comes in all sorts, like substance abuse, shopping addict, visiting all kind of activities so going out and out seeking ANY reward to sooth themselves.

The sad and ironic of it is that you/we were the cause of all…
The sad and ironic is that we loved a person for years, decades in whom we believed and trusted even had kids with.

You are not dealing with any logic, you are dealing with a disorder.
A disordered mind that you unconsciously wanted to repair, to sooth and again unconsciously hoping after all that effort that the light bulb would shine as you became so accurate in explaining any situation that their mind really had to see it.
Sadly, the perspective didn’t alter… it stayed, disordered as it was.

Now as an answer on your question:

Alice to White Rabbit:
How long is forever?
Sometimes it lasts for a moment…

The new attachment will be the cause of all…

 C<||| Dutched    

 |iiii amazing post!

 C<|||  Thanks for the compliments married21years!

Just thought putting some efforts in becoming Socrates' philosopher  

Who has more of a chance to keep her in the idealization phase, the alpha male or the doormat? The doormat will succumb to all of her demands and the alpha male will stand up to her. Will that keep her interest? Just curious how this can go on for many years. Mine lasted 3 years but I did not live with her. Now that she is married, she is with him daily. Will she be triggered in a quicker fashion? I know that every situation is different. Just looking for generalities. 

No way! In fact, my one step daughter(all three hate me, but at least this one will talk to me) said that they know their Dad has told lies to all of us, and that he just blames others, and won't take any personal responsibility. Here's the kicker that made me feel the best: she said he'll just keep repeating this most likely, and will do this to anyone pretty much. She thinks he's repeating a lot of what he did to their Mother. I personally think he's some worse, as I don't engage to the degree she did, so he has to try harder to get a reaction out of me, and even then I won't sink to his level.

These people don't "do better" with someone else, because THEY are the problem. Now, that's not saying we are perfect, or weren't codependent or enabling to some degree, but most of us work on those issues, while those with BPD in large part don't want to. It's the small numbers on here that have BPD partners that get help, work their programs, and do get some better that give us hope, but that is not the large majority, I feel.

I got away from someone I feel was a sociopath, and I still miss him, five years later, although I'd never go back to him, and am glad I got away. I don't think I'll feel that way when I leave BPDh. I know I'll be sad, maybe scared at all the life changes, but I know the daily stress will have to be a huge relief. I'm sure he'll move onto someone else really fast(and that will hurt), as he did that last time he walked out on me. What does that say though? To me it says that I really was just a commodity to him, and easily replaced. He couldn't really connect with me, I was just there for his own ego, and to serve him. I wasn't part of the equation at all really, other than to abuse, and take his rage out on.

Unless these people really hit rock bottom, and are committed to seeking help, they don't get better. The only way the seem "happier" with someone else, is if the person they end up with has zero self esteem, or they themselves need very little in a relationship: in other words, two very broken people fitting together. A friend told me about that years ago, and now I finally get it. I don't want to become broken enough, or subvert my needs enough to stay with him.

Comfort yourself with what your ex friend told you: she has not gotten better, and she did the same to him. My BPDh's daughter told me last night that he'll likely do this to someone after me too. He plays victim she says, and takes zero responsibility for hurting others. Just blames them. Sad.

I think  I am assuming that the marriage must be okay since there have been no attempts on her part to recycle me. But then again... .she probably figures she closed the door shut with me by calling the police on me and dragging me into a courtroom. I kind of wish she wouldn't have gone that far because there is no going back for me after she put me through that.

This is a great post. I have gained so much by reading it. I really cannot add to it right now, I am still blown away how Dutched described my r/s with the stbxBPDw to such an accurate precision.

Thank you all, please carry on.

swimjim, your story is in some ways very close to mine. I won't bother reciting all the details, but I dragged my feet, too--for two years. My ex was so good at putting on a happy face, continuing to lavish me with affection and praise, that I didn't realize the extent of the anger that was building up. Instead of my best friend, he began secretly courting a person who was, more or less, my nemesis.

The sudden lashing out was just so awful. I was in shock, consumed with regret about not having seized the opportunity to be with him (he proposed, twice), still convinced of the strength of his feelings for me, so I tried to win him back, too, at first.

In the end, he ghosted. That was a year and a half ago. We aren't in contact. Maybe she's keeping him happy, I don't know. He told me once, when he'd begun to give up on winning me, that he would never love anyone else (I know, I know)--that when he found someone else, he'd lie to keep her, but he wouldn't be able to fool himself. Such a weird projection into the future.

That plays in my head a lot--he's lying to her to keep her. Who knows? If she can keep him happy, then he's happy, whether he loves her or not. But if he's so happy, then why does he have to lock me in cold storage? We had a major relationship. A happy person would not need to forget it ever existed.

Hi Steelwork. Yes, I was convinced I was the greatest man in the world. It was intoxicating. She called me "honey" and "sweetheart". I felt like it was unconditional love like a mother. Then came the split black. Why would someone who loved me unconditionally call the police on me? Then, to add insult to injury, drag me into court with my ex friend having his arm around her. It was traumatizing.  When I lost her, I was desperate to get her back. I offered her the ring she so begged for. The next day the police were called. I can't wrap my head around this.

It's just gonna take a while. Not an easy process. I'm sorry. Truly I am.

I often wonder, will she keep her husband painted white if he upsets her and they fight? Will she try harder to make it work since she is now married, or will the devaluation begin?

I wonder that, too. I really did disappoint the guy. But what can I do? He didn't give me another chance. And now, all this way down the road, I can see that "everything happens for a reason" is not just a cliche.

Look. There's a reason I dragged my feet, and there's a reason you dragged your feet. Well, there are lots of reasons. But if you are anything like me, a big part of it was my subconscious awareness that something was wrong with him--something beyond my considerable capacity for accommodating eccentricities.

Gut instinct. I remember her DEMANDING I get on my knees and ask her hand in marriage. At the time, I acted like a doormat to avoid a major blowup/meltdown on her part. I did what she wanted even though I was dumbfounded. She saw it was not coming from my heart and that I was not convincing. I walked out of her place that evening in a major fight. That was my first gut instinct that something was "off" about her. Follow the gut instinct. I guess most healthy guys would have laughed at her and walked out and ended it there. My codependency kept me in the game.

Swimjim, you wrote:

Who has more of a chance to keep her in the idealization phase, the alpha male or the doormat?
Please don’t be mislead about the so called ‘alpha male’, the James Bonds, James Deans or John Waynes guys.
In the animal world it exists, humans are far more complex.
Psychology agrees that we (humans) don’t  ‘have a place’ in hierarchy as we belong to more than 1 social circle (it might be true that one has a boss)
Within the four walls of home there is no leader of the pack (We are no dogs/wolfs. Elephants yes, they have a complex social system and we humans have the most complex system in interacting).

I suggest that it is more advisable to read about attachment styles and the (possible better) match when 2 type of styles are in a relationship.  

Further, don’t forget BPD and Cluster B are spectrum disorders.
From being in a sense dormant to constantly exposed.
From being mild until triggered.
From low to high functioning.
From cutting, suicidal attempts to seemingly normal and highly respected (like some celebrities)
From having many short(er) relationships to being able in a r/s for many years (though with much turmoil).

Looking for generalities?
In my previous post it is in general the deterioration of the relationship, sooner or later.
Said also that the new attachment will be the cause of all…

Have a closes look at the reply of Cerulandblue again, she is spot on, saying:  
“These people don’t do better with someone else because THEY are the problem”.

You wrote:
"I think  I am assuming that the marriage must be okay since there have been no attempts on her part to recycle me".
Yes, she moved on… a fact for you... . but… don’t be mislead and think again how your r/s evolved… how all relationships described in this topic and on this Board evolved… the answer is given (remember that attachment style…).

It is a matter of time before any stressor will be activated… depending on the match… (attachment style) which there, at any point in the future, NEVER WAS according to ‘them’.

How can anyone keep borrowing (mirroring) a self, self esteem, values AND attachment style of another person for life as ones only need is to be loved, need of instant gratification, having a constant fear for abandonment all in order to survive?  

Seen it after 30+ yrs. that all, and I really mean all, what was important and of great value in that r/s and family, was thrown overboard in a blink of an eye. Hooked a 67-70 yr. old “mr Onlsow type” with big tattoos (‘how disgusting’ exw’s reaction always was) and acting lovingly as a nurse with a purse for his last resort for his old days… Even parading wearing the a same poor looking style… attachment…

How painful all was and how difficult your road is and will be, you (maybe because of her lower functioning) dodged a bullet before you were heavy committed, having a house, mortgage and kids…

 And… remember your instinct!

Thank you Dutched. What do you mean by attachment style vs. alpha male. I can see a doormat getting stuck in the fog for years never leaving (self esteem issues) even thou she keeps pushing limits and taking advantage holding the power strings. However, it would be encouraging to know that James Dean and George Clooney would eventually get split black. You know what I mean?

Maybe the more self assured individuals would not fall prey to a borderline by waking away at the first red flag? But so many of us get pulled into that sexy idealization from a beautiful woman. That is their hook. then the capture. It's hard not to go back for more. Then we write off the red flags as excuses or insignificant until it is too late and we are in too deep to escape.

I think that is a very simple and realistic way to look at it.  If you can keep focused on mourning the dream, it seems easier to detach from the "person" and heal.

Bunny

Glad to be of any help!  makes my day :)

Short: there is no alpha male in humans, so yes James and George too, as they didn’t cause it.
Women also like and appreciate that soft, feminine side of men (don’t you ladies)  

In psychology 4 styles are described:
= 1 secure attachment
= 2 anxious- ambivalent attachment
= 3 anxious-avoidant attachment
= 4 disorganised/disoriented attachment


Without trying to explain these styles:
It could be that Style 1 matches with 3. Style 1 (secure, confident) pulling 3 into a more secure style in time
Having style 2 together with 3, well, both partners have an anxious style.

Have a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

Mentioned is John Bowlby’s  book “Attachment theory” which is seen as the reference in psychology.

A last one, which is in a sense breath taking, as you will see exactly what happens in a r/s when one pushes the other away. An experiment by Dr. Edward Tronick.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0     notice the change at 1:00 min.

Now to challenge you, us, as I was challenged by seeing this.
See the mother as the pwBPD, the sudden mood change, the coldness.
See the baby as us here… what is that baby doing? What did we do

Despite being in that r/s for 30+ yrs., no I have never been a doormat, nor that ‘alpha’.
Yes, I was with a very high functioning woman, then the process almost unnoticeable worsens. Dormant for years, triggered again after the death of her father, triggered more with kids, full blown at ca. 40 when femal hormones begins to change, the pre memopause and (as in men) that so called midlife crisis.

That is also part of the explanation that so many relatively stable relationships at midlife and after being decades together are broken up in a blink of an eye. Many as described also on this Board.

And really, don’t forget  the spectrum of the Cluster B disorder.

Thank you very much Ditched. You have been a great help. Now I must come to believe my life will be better without her.

Replacement, another over used term on these boards.  If you date someone and you break up, you will be replaced.  It makes no difference if the person is mentally ill or mentally stable. When couples break up, no matter it middle school or octogenarians, there will be a replacement. If you find someone and are married for the rest of your lives, then, and only then, will you not be replaced.
It stinks to know you'll be replaced, but it's totally normal.  If you've ever broke up with someone, did you honestly wait, days, months, or even years before you found another significant other, just to make sure the dumped is OK? I doubt it. If you did, then God bless, but to expect that with every break up isn't normal. Lastly, have you made sure ALL your exes are ok before you replace them, all of them?

Then I will refer to him as the new guy.

I think the term replacement is used frequently because BPD's view relationship partners as objects to satisfy their abandonment issues rather than humans with mature feelings.FOr example, the three year loves her Barbie doll until she gets tired of it and replaces it with new supply. I could be wrong but just my 2 cents.Replace, rinse, repeat,etc.

Are you saying you can read the mind of someone else? One thing I have learned is, don't ever try to think what someone else is thinking.  I understand the term replacement, however, your definition of replace, rinse, repeat. Those are all things you can control. Repeat? Only YOU can let someone repeat behavior.
Cutting and pasting is such a waste of space.

I know what you mean ny. If you aren't in their life any longer, how would you know if they are repeating, right? It would have no significance to me. Kind of like, when the tree hits the ground and nobody is there to witness it, does it make a noise?  :thought:

SwimJim, I know you'll get through this.  I was dumped and painted black, by an ex-gf.  She dumped me, and blocked me on Facebook, and changed her number, or blocked mine, either one. I'm 47, she is 44. This break up happened 4 years ago, and I haven't heard a peep out of her.  We went to HS and fooled around in college. Our families have known each other's all our lives. It stinks, I think she is embarrassed by her behavior and that's why I don't hear from her. 
I think we like to think more highly of the exes, then what they really are. I'm 99% over this girl. The one percent that I still struggle with is that, we're not friends or even acquaintances. It's an odd thing, to think that she chose burning bridges over friends.

My 2 cents.

1 month after the breakup she found a new guy; seemingly, this guy was the perfection, while I was full of defects. I felt like s**t, thinking I wasn't a good partner, and I had this doubt that the replacement was going to make her happy (mind that from a rational point of view I knew, from her past history, that she was very likely going to fail once more).

So, let 13 months pass, and I got to know that they broke up; not only this, their r/s was full of fights (like I experienced), she cheated on him multiple times (like I experienced) and, in the end, he left her (I was left).

All this just to say that we are not the cause of the failure of the r/s... .the disorder is. Give them enough time, they will always blow up everything at some point.

right!

it is not your job to make anyone happy!

it is your job to make you happy!

there is no lasting happiness in making others happy, work on making you happy and if they are along for the ride then so be it!

doing things for someone needs to be reciprocated or it end up being co dependent!

we need to be like the bar burning femi-nazi's  demanding everything and we need to demand we are happy of us!

so grab a pitch fork join the mob and demand to be happy  :)

I guess you mean "bra-burning"... .anyhow, though I appreciate your putting Rush Limbaugh's coinage "feminazis" in a positive light as people demanding and claiming happiness, but I hope you'll consider that many on this board are women, and many of the women and men here are proud feminists!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminazi

OP, it's such a struggle to get your head around this--I know. It's not an ordinary moving-on process, and even if it were, your feelings are totally understandable.

meant to be tongue in cheek  lol

but we all know the type from the seventies. we all need to be more like that and stop putting our needs second  :)

Agreed!

I think my main problem now is romanticizing the relationship or just thinking of the good times i.e. the fantasy. Where I am stuck is my memory of our fights has diminished. It seemed that the only topic we ever fought about was not getting engaged. We had only dated 5 months before she gave me the marriage ultimatum. When I didn't budge, she would back off in two week cycles but then always start an argument for not having a ring. She would say to me " I know 100% you are perfect for me, and I will marry you tomorrow. You are the one who is reserved therefore you must not fully love me".  I tried to convince her that I loved her but I wanted her to relax and enjoy the dating process and it would naturally lead us to the alter. I wanted to see that she loved me and not te fantasy of being married to anyone. I think she was getting family pressure that I would never marry her and that I was using her. She was in a hurry. I had been married before and know it takes hard work. She had never been married and tried to trap a previous boyfriend by getting pregnant on purpose. He would not marry her and she had herself and her parents raise the child without a father. The only thing I remember us fighting about was not getting married. I don't remember fighting about other things. It haunts me to think that if I would have given her what she truly wanted, she would always be happy. Now someone else has finally done that for her. 

Swimjim I saw your comment earlier today and i want to reach out about something I usually don't like sharing due to pain and embarrassment but I feel your unfairly sitting in guilt and that's not a good place to be because I cycle from guilt to anger where I'm at now so here's my story about getting engaged to mine... about 6 months into our relationship her issues and insecurities started to arise and she kept pushing to get engaged etc. so on Christmas of 2014 I engaged to her using my grandmothers ring which she then said wasn't good enough so I bought her her own ring,then it turned into you only did it so I wouldn't leave etc, then a month later since there was more commitment things got more touchy and one night she said out of the blue all casual "I think we should call off the engagement because it's making things harder,I was hurt and she acted like it was nothing but we continued on. Then on Valentine's Day she had started going to the bar more with her friends and I brought her home flowers and chocolates etc, she barely cared and said she's going out with her friends and left the flowers and engagement ring on the table and went out and came home early hours in the morning drunk as a skunk almost having frost bite and I helped save her hands from it,a month later she leaves then comes back for a recycle and asks about the ring etc, the another recycle she comes back and just wears the ring around to make her feel more secure and during all these recycles I sit here alone with an engagement ring. Finally this past 4th of July she posts new pictures with the second replacement in a month not even 4 days after trying to initiate a recycle and being intimate with me,I finally had enough and drove to the river and threw in the ring and wouldn't you know that sucker didn't sink,just floated down the river,it figures lol. So my point is if you would have been engaged to her it would have just given her a deeper level into your soul as a way to hurt you,these people if you give them an inch they take a mile.be grateful as hard as it may be that you dodged a bullet and weren't a fool like me repeatedly sitting alone and heartbroken with a ring.

Tu shay - or if the new partner is as unhealthy as he/she is... .that's the only way I can see that relationship continue to go round and round.  Which isn't my definiton of "working".  It's just two people so messed up crossing over each other's boundaries and one of them finally crushes the other.

Well, probably, the same will happen. Knowing what I know now, I can understand the behaviour of mine beter after the fact. She painted him black as hell, despite being married to him, when the r/s was unstable at best. During the r/s with her I never really understood why she would be with such a loser.

Well, trust me, now I understand. She painted him black as **** towards me and he had no spine or intelligence at all (I helped her with the divorce, I saw the letters he wrote, the poor guy wasn't that smart to say the least). An easy victim. Now mine has moved on with one of my ex best friends, a guy with low self esteem and very little experience with women. Although I've been too accommodating and understandig, he will be much worse in that regard. Another easy victim as well.

Long story short, even marriage will fail, in this case within 1.5 years. I scratched my head too many times during my r/s with her, now I know this should raise an alarm in the future. You'll learn to take better care of yourself, that's the positive side.

And still, I'm the schmuck missing her like hell. Who's stupid now lol.

Thanks mustang, bunny and anonymous for your replies. It means a lot. I struggle now with self esteem. I have self doubt. Part of me wants to know if she is unhappy but then... .Too afraid to find out she is happy. So here I am in limbo. I'm focusing on myself and trying to take care of me but I feel stuck. I hope my gut instinct was right. Very painful experience. I saw a woman at my health club that looked just like her. She had a wedding ring on her finger. I immediately felt attracted to her. I wonder what is wrong with me.

Why would you feel damned? A lot of things still remind my of my ex, not in the least all the stuff that we bought together for our/my house. There is no shame in that, you loved her, and that can run deep if you let it.  After three months I'm still tense when I'm in the city center, afraid I'm going to run into them.

The difficult thing for me is this, she was a complete paradox to me. She has given me my most happy moments in my life and the worst moments (along with that friend of mine). I'm about half way through I guess, it just takes a lot of time to let it all sink in. Letting that go isn't easy and it takes time.

The truth of the matter is this, it doesn't matter if she's happy with him or not. For the moment, mine is or is at least trying to keep up appearances, but knowing what he and she did is enough for me to realize that it can't work in the long run, the lack of trust will be stronggggg. And even if it does, great for her, she'll be happy, that's something I'd like to see.

I'm just hoping she is not coming by with feelings of remorse while I'm not fully healed. :)

My worst scenario, probably fueling a sort of co-dependency: it took me 4,5 years to find a girl I liked this much and not because of a lack of trying (dated a lot). Although I can take care of myself I'm just praying it won't take another 4,5 years to find a functional r/s :) This sort of self doubt is normal I guess in these first phases.

Have patience.

I think what you're going through is normal. I hope you have sought therapy.  You don't need it forever, just about 2 months of weekly and 3 months of once a month. Seek it if you haven't.  I can tell you did everything you could, and trust me that hurts, knowing it wasn't reciprocated. I think you should look at her, basically begging you to marry her as a huge red flag.  What it tells me is that you would have figured out she's nuts and eventually, you would have ended it.  She needed to get hitched so fast, so you or any other guy she dates doesn't get to know the real her. What better way to hide it than get married and then it's a divorce. Be happy my man, your head is on straight.

Just keep strong man,I hope my difficult story shared some insight,try to be happy you didn't devote that level of being engaged/married to her she would just use it as a weapon for further demise of you. I still regret proposing to her,it was my first and that's something that should be sacred and special with Someone who deserves it.

Thanks stang and others. I was definitely ah humbling experience. This is a great support group.

My sponsor told me today to be grateful I'm not being bullied, lied to, controlled and misreable. It's been a while and I've forgotten just how horrible she was.

She still is all those things and one thing I know for a fact and I would bet my life on it. SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE!

She told me today my son didn't want to be with me, he's 2 years old. She's a mean, cold hearted person and again, SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE.

I can and I have

If it helps at all, I got married to my BPD in February, moved down in mid-April, and by June-July she was already devaluing me. Instead of focusing on our marriage, she was focused it seems on her work and keeping herself happy.

So no, in my experiences, the marriage won't stop the devaluation process no matter what. She started the same old patterns even though for months prior to the wedding, she was happy for a very long stretch (December to February then said she was upset I wasn't there around March to April).

I am firmly convinced that the photos of her with a new guy whilst she is separated from me is a visual sham. She will devalue him, its just a matter of time as another author wrote on here. The clock is ticking. She may be triggered by Valentine's Day and hate his guts by Spring or early Summer. The patters seem pretty consistant.

Well... .chances are no one will keep her happy, but if you truly love someone you want them to be happy - even if it means with someone else. 

HI,
This is a very common fear that you have. I think we have all felt the same as you at one point or another. The truth is it really doesn't matter. She treated YOU like crap. She discarded YOU for your best friend, which clearly shows her lack of boundaries or true love for YOU. Is this someone you would want to marry? Your replacement could be just as crazy as she is. Let them cannibalize each other. Either way, she is not your dream come true. Remember she is a con artist who will do and say whatever is necessary for her own survival, even if that includes convincing her targets to marry her. She has no concern for you, only what you can do for her. Never ever forget that. Even if you would have married her, that would have not been enough for her. People with BPD can not sustain any long term loving relationships without a lot of counselling, even then the odds are against you. You dodged a bullet, because even if you would have married her, she would have eventually replaced you anyway. It would have been just a matter of time.

. People with BPD can not sustain any long term loving relationships without a lot of counselling, even then the odds are against you. You dodged a bullet, because even if you would have married her, she would have eventually replaced you anyway. It would have been just a matter of time.

Yup!

My take on this after a ten year relationship. I was pushed into an engagement soon after moving in with her. Then later marriage. I went along. I thought it would make her happy after her terrible childhood. In my eyes I was the saviour. But in my experience it meant nothing! So I would say don't feel bad about the marriage bit that you didn't get to achieve. As others have point out, it would have not made any difference long term. It was just a quick fix at the time. I feel like everything I did for this woman was basically quick in the moment fixes, the next day it was forgotten and new things had to fixed! Never ending. I now realised I was exhausted at the end, but just kept on doing things for her. The last year which was horrible, she treated with so much disrespect and I became the doormat as in my heart I wanted so much to fix everything. I was the monster. I was as bad as her parents she repeatedly told me. She even asked me to write her and apology letter, I did, it didn't do anything, forgotten by the next day.

Terrible thing is after a couple of months breakup I do miss her, but by reading and going to a therapist I realise how everything was so wrong... .