BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

I have a question. It seems the root of a BPD diagnosis is fear of abandonment. PwBPDs are known for being very manipulative. Is abandonment at the root of their manipulative behavior? In other words, if a pwBPD manipulates their employer to get a job, or manipulates the doctor to get a diagnosis to help her with a lawsuit, is that borderline as well? Or does that lie more on the psychopathy scale?

Thanks!

People lie all the time to get what they want. Doesn't mean they are psychopaths. I don't think manipulation is not part of the criteria for borderlines.

"People lie all the time". Do they really? I mean I get what you're saying, but if someone sees people and systems through a lens of manipulation, and are constantly manipulating people to get what they want, that's not normal. Ok maybe it's not psychopathy, but is that typical behavior for a borderline? I thought borderlines are manipulative because they always fear abandonment?

I wouldn't say so. It's as present as in anyone else. Anyone can be manipulative, just that they're differing in effectivenes. Honestly who didn't ever manipulate someone like through lying? Most would probably be unemployed if they were honest to their employers during interviews.

I can't tell if BPD is more likely to be manipulative, but it's not a requirement.

Is abandonment at the root of a pwBPD's manipulations?

According to Harvard's Aguirre, it's more about learned behavior.
https://bpdfamily.org/2013/05/bpdfamily.html

I think the general consensus is that the root of BPD is very high rejection anxiety coupled with highly diminished executive function (impulsiveness).

I'm actually surprised manipulation and Compulsive lying isn't part of the criteria.

From what I've researched, it seems that is mostly all BPDS. 

Although, BPDs are very convincing so it takes a long time to realize they lie and manipulate constantly, Unless you're very involved with them to catch it time and time again.

One of the core fears of BPDs is that the world will see them for what they really are. My wife is finding that out right now. So lying is a must.

In my own experience I recognize my sister's manipulation as a way to avoid abandonment. She will invoke our relationship ("As my sister, I would be so grateful if you could do this", a sense of vague urgency (saying that she's "running out of time" when she hasn't done anything in a year and a half and won't let you help her once you actually agree to anything anyway), and outright mentioning of the cruelty of leaving her alone ("you wouldn't leave your sister all alone, would you?". Almost every step of an interaction with her is just a way to get me to engage in some way or another, and I think it does stem from a desperate desire for people, even when she is telling those people all the ways that they have wronged her, how they are talking to her "the wrong way" and have no right to ask her questions, says she's "too tired to debate this" because she doesn't want any sort of resistance to a request--everything is dependent on keeping the other person engaged. At first I would fall for these traps all the time, but once I realized that even after a reasonable amount of time spent with her, if I decided to leave and take my space she would usually melt down and volley all of these guilting phrases at me, like "I actually genuinely need help", "why aren't you taking me seriously", "I came to you for help and you said you would help me, if you couldn't I should have known that"... .on and on and on and on. So it wasn't actually about getting a "people" fix and wanting a little company or a little assistance, it was about constantly keeping me engaged so that I wouldn't leave.

I can't speak for everyone's experience with pwBPD, but your question rang very true to me. The saddest part is, I truly believe my sister has no idea she is emotionally abusing me and manipulating me with her words. She is hurting and she wants me to know that, even when there's nothing I can do about it or she won't let me do anything about it. It is very, very sad.