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I don't know when my life just went so wrong. I will say that I myself consider myself a pretty well rounded gal. I've a little PTSD that I've sought help for and I continue to recover from. Self improvement is on going.

I don't know when my life just went so wrong. I will say that I myself consider myself a pretty well rounded gal. I've a little PTSD that I've sought help for and I continue to recover from. Self improvement is on going.
My current GF (even though she refuses to label it that) met last year. We dated for 3 months and I was treated like dirt the entire three months. I finall walked away in June 2016. I took some trips to get my head back on. Two months later on my birthday I get a funny birthday message from her, going against my better judgement I texted back. Boom, we were back in each others lives, things were different, things were good... .Still no label on what we were. Having sex and hanging out and she invited me to her Bffs wedding, in which I went. We would hang out and shed call me her girl. Thanksgiving came and we went to each others parents, big step! The week after I barely heard from her. She finally texts me from a bar alone, telling me she was feeling very low and confused and overwhelmed. I finally dropped by the next day we talked and I pretty much ended it that night. Shes like my friends are waiting on me I have to go... Then mumbles to herself way to go K on ruining another relationship but goes out anyway. She just let me go after she just told me she loved me. She said she was having suicidal thoughts also. So the next morning... .i freak and go over there. I love her so much. We talk and shes like look I dont want acrelationship but I want to continue to see you. I agreed and since then, shes accused me of cheating ( which is absolutely rediculous) and she wants to see my messages to people. Im like we are not together so no and that my privacy. Ever since I told her NO she cant see my messages shes treated me badly, binge drinking this past week, staying out all hours... .She looks at me like she hates me now... .Im so confused. I love her so much but her pushing me away, thinking awful things that are not true about me hurts so bad. I finally had to join this group to let this out. I know she truly cares and has said she loves me in the past.  She does not know she has BPD, she thinks she maybe bipolar with adhd. My therapist and myself strongly agree she has BPD, but she refuses any therapy.  Her mood swings are intense, afraid to death to be close to anyone, trust no one. She always needs her space. She has bouts of feeling bigger then life and an ego to match, then real lows. Shes afraid to lose me, but more afraid to keep me. I finally told her I feel as if its no big deal if I leave, shes like it aint because everyone does... .Im used to it, she said. At that moment i really had no idea what to do. If anyone could shed some light on this that be great... .Thank you!   ( sorry it didnt post entire message)

*welcome*

I'm glad you found us.  If you poke around here a bit you will see stories similar to yours.

First of all, I want to give you a big thumbs up for maintaining your privacy!   |iiii

I would encourage you to maintain that, regardless of r/s status with anyone.  Once I did this, my life got much simpler.

Please stick around for a while and learn more about the traits this person is showing you.  The behaviors and most (except for you maintaining your privacy |iiii ) of your responses are classic.

If she "calmed down" would you want a r/s with her? 

Take a few minutes and think about what you want.  Write that to us... .from there we can help you figure out your next step.

You have found a safe place... .we can help.

FF

Welcome Lynn

It sounds like she has BPD or at least traits of the disorder from what you have said.
I suggest you think about (list) all of the bad vs. good in your relationship with her, and decide what is best for YOU.
It is very hard to end things with a PWBPD, I believe complete NC is best for both partners if possible.
Reading and learning about this awful disorder helped me a lot, then focusing on why I got into and stayed in an unhealthy relationship-very painful but helpful.

Hello Lynn,

Thank you for sharing and asking for help. You are going through this and as you said "self improvement is ongoing".

Thank you all for a response! Taking time out and reading this and replying!
 To answer some questions... .If she calmed down, the answer would be a definate yes!
She has returned to work and is back taking her meds, which is adderal. The other day without meds she finally got a hold of me and asked if i wanted to see a movie and I got to pick. Then afterwards we went bowling with my friends, which we had a great time. She even held my hand and kissed it, saying I had a great vacation. I got to spend time with my friends, my mom and you, she was satisfied.
We are back on our work routine, where we see each other twice a week. She really needs her space yet we live 3 minutes from each other. 
When she is out of control this is usually the responses i get.

Me: why dont you invite me out with your friends?
Her: doesnt really reply. Then gets very loud and confrontational... .I do what I want, when I want. If your gonna pick a fight you cant just get F out.
Me: calling her
Her: picks up phone like ... .WHAT? ( shouting)
Me: i just wanted to stop by and get my chargee that I left.
Her: WHERE ARE YOU? Shouting... .
Me. Calm down, why are you so angry
Her: i dont know... .How long before you get here... .

This is the dialogue when she things dont go her way or as planned. She later calmed down and we went out and had fun.   
How can I get her to go to therapy?  She can never tell me why she gets so mad. Her neighbors are afraid of her. A dog came on her porch she flipped out on the neighbor, cussing and screaming and called the cops because the neighbors friendly dog came up to the porch. I felt so embarrased... .As the neighbor she was yelling at had no legs, wheelchair bound. She cd of cared less... .

Hi Lynn324,

welcome.   I am glad you are here with us.   I am not sure how much you know about BPD as an illness.   There is some great reading in the side bar that runs down the right hand side of your screen.   I would suggest you start at the top.

People with Borderline Personality Disorder (pwBPD) have harmfully intense emotions, painfully intense emotions and very little impulse control.   Where you and I might feel annoyance they feel great anger, where you and I feel uneasy or frightened they are completely terrified.    These intense emotions usually cause a great deal of conflict for the people around them.

It is not normally recommended that you tell someone you think they might have the traits of BPD.   There are very good reasons for this.   pwBPD feel defective to start, they have a lot of shame and self loathing to begin with.   at some level they understand their reactions are different and they push this knowledge away, sometimes violently.    It is not just a matter of saying why don't you go to therapy ?and your GF saying you know I really think I should.    Unfortunately it's a lot more complicated than that.    As you post and read more here, things will pop out at you.   As you learn more, you'll know how to better handle that conversation if it should ever arise.

Have you ever heard of validation?    Validation is recognizing and accepting another person's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as understandable.   It doesn't mean agreeing or approving of them, only that you understand.

In the snippet you gave,  your girlfriend is emotionally dsyregulated.   Her intense emotions have run away with her.    Telling her to calm down is very invalidating.    I know you were trying to be helpful and logical.   She can't calm down.   Pointing this out to her, first negates the importance of her feelings and second tells her she doesn't have the right to be angry.    Invalidation raises emotional reactivity.   which you have probably noticed by yourself.

pwBPD live with a lot of emotional instability because they have no or very little ability to regulate their own emotions.   That's a hard concept to grasp.    when I am upset I go for a walk or eat a chocolate donut.  the donut always works for me.   pwBPD look to external sources to soothe or regulate their emotions.   Usually the person who is closest to them.

Does that make sense?   Does that fit with what you have been experiencing?

'ducks

Lynn324,

Getting them to go to therapy is sort of a quest for the holy grail.  (not quite that bad... .but close)

I hope you will focus on reading lessons and posting her for a while, to first understand your role in the relationship.  It is likely that a few changes that you make, could help calm things... .and once things are calmer... .perhaps a discussion can be had about "going to therapy".

At the level of dysregulation she seems to be at in these posts, it is unlikely that there can be a good outcome of any conversation with her.  (as you found out... .)

What would happen if in your communication example you didn't call her.  She tells you she will do what she wants... .and you don't respond.

Does that type of thing need to be responded too?

FF

 

Hey Lynn324,
Welcome! Let me tell you what a God send this website has been. I finally have something to go on. The hot and cold behavior, the I hate you but I love you statements that come out of my gf mouth have made me feel out of control. Just as an example, yesterday she tells me that no matter what she says, no matter what she does we will always be together and she will NEVER let me go. She loves me, can't do it without me etc... .today I received a formal eviction notice from her so I have thirty days to vacate the premises. Enough to drive people to drink... .and heavily. Bottom line is you aren't alone. This website keeps you sane while dealing with the highs and lows. It will teach you new things and you will be able to relate to others. It truly has been a God send
I wish you luck and look forward to seeing you here again

Ducks,
That totally fits!  I now do not react to things when she is gets like this. I simply stay quiet and try to move to another subject.  Even when I was saying calm down, i knew that was the wrong thing to say, but her bff says it to her and she immediately quiets down, but not without a quick rebuttle. Her emotions are ALL over the place. Im questioning my mind at this point... .Why am I still with her? I dont deserve this, but on the other hand... .No one deserves this disorder or to be abandoned due to it. Its hard watching her love me one day and the next not even contact me. Shes kind of possessive, even though were not in a relationship. Im lthinking if after a year you dont want a relationship then what are we doing? And you shouldnt be jealous of people I talk with. She has said before... .I guess i truly want my cake and eat it too.  Lol at least she was honest.  Anytime we get close she makes sure she becomes distant pyrely out of fear.  I felt the moment she was actually vulnerable once... .i knew from that moment shed pull away.  I dont want to fix her, but I want her to know shes loved no matter how "crazy" she may act. But I also dont want to be a pushover. Im so close to ending this and I dont want too. I dont want to abandone her as I love her very much.  Hmmm... .And this is why Im just trying to work on me... .All of this rings so true for what Im facing.  How can u set boundaries on someone with BPD?

Furthermore , major question. Why after a year of seeing each other and for all intensive purpose are together ... .Why wont she commit to a relationship? It makes me feel insecure and makes me always wonder if there may be aomeone else... .Just so frustrated and tired. Im trying to hold on... .

Hi Lynn

Boundaries work best when they are about us, our values, our feelings and are not attempts to control or modify some one else's behavior.

a potential boundary could look like this: 'when we spend time together and then I don't hear from you for a couple of days at a time I feel unsettled and insecure , I would like to stay in contact even if it is just an I am okay text.'

another boundary could look like 'respecting privacy is important to me because it recognizes me as an individual (value)  I won't share messages because it feels wrong to me to do so'.

Boundaries are hard.   pwBPD have a heightened sensitivity to rejection and a difficult time hearing the word No.   in my experience that looked like this:   when ever my partner wanted something, a new bed, a new place to live, a night out on the town, and I either couldn't do it, or just plain didn't want to do it and said No all heck broke loose.   To her it felt like I was invalidating her needs/wants.    pwBPD have high validations needs, and truthfully so do we probably,  that's why the honeymoon phase of idealization felt so wonderful to us.

saying 'oh boy it would be nice to have a brand new bigger bed, still the timing of a major purchase doesn't look good right now' recognized my partner's need/want.    it was validating.   if I had just said 'No I don't want a major purchase right now', things would have degraded into a needs entitlement war,  her need for a new bed against my need for financial planning.  Make sense?

As to why she won't commit to a relationship,   very hard to say with 100% certainty.   Still there is a likelihood that she is attempting to manage the tension of wanting a relationship and fearing a relationship.   Understanding BPD takes some work, it is often counter intuitive of how we think things should be.   People with BPD want a relationship, desperately.   Often they want to be loved in the ways that they weren't as a child, with that unconditional all embracing love that a mother would provide.   On the other hand, people always fail them, no one loves them enough or perfectly.   No one can fill that empty void inside them.  On the other hand they don't like to be alone.    But when they are close to someone they have a hard time maintaining their own individuality, they will pick up the characteristics and attributes of the person they are with and that's uncomfortable too... .they fear engulfment.   so push/pull, push/pull.   just like taty said;  I love you go away,  I hate you don't leave me.   Push/pull is a coping trait to manage fear.   Maladaptive to be sure.   The more you participate in the push/pull cycles the more gas is being added to the fire.   It's hard to be consistent in the face of this type of pressure.   So it's important to identify, realistically what the relationship will be like and what you are willing to accept.    This is a good place to do that.

Does that begin to answer your questions?
'ducks

Push pull is what this has been. The more it cycles, the more gas is added to the fire? If this is the case how do I stop it or rather stop adding gas to the fire. 
She goes out a lot with friends and never invites me. Stays out til 6 in the morning and for the most part tells me everything that happened when I see her next.  Its like why cant I hang with you and your friends. She has said once that her friends are crazy and I wouldnt fit in. A lot of times she refers to a goody goody.  Yes i have a career, yes I went to college, was in the military for 10 years as well. She on otherhand works for a car factory, graduated from high school and makes okay money.  She often says Im judgemental... .Which Im not what so ever.  Just because Ive done alright doesnt mean im judging you or your friends. She makes this all up.  When we are out with her friends her famous line is ... .No you guys Lynn doesnt understand what we go through at work. Im like damn really?  When she says these things I stay quiet and think... .Your right I dint understand your work dynamic... .Just like you dont inderstand what its like to go to war... .But i dont ever say you dont understand.  Right now the relationship is Fwbs. But heaven for bid someone comment on my facebook page, shell be wondering and then accuse me of all sorts of stuff. I JUST WANT TO SCREAM... .We are not in a relationship, because you cant do a relationship.  But yet Im supposed act like we are. Its crazy... .

Hi Again Lynn,

I can appreciate your frustration.    Conflicting messages, push/pull behavior, covert emotional abuse takes a toll on the strongest of us.   

What I meant when I said the more it cycles the more gas is added to the fire is this:   the more you participate in the drama the more fuel the drama has because now two people are feeding the fire.   

My partner once said to me "it's not enough for you to tell me you understand my feelings you need to do something about them".    Yeah no I don't.   That's not my job.   My job is to take care of my feelings.   

If something is going on that makes me feel uncomfortable, I need to identify it, and take healthy actions to resolve it.   Waiting for a person who has the traits of a serious mental illness to resolve a situation is not usually productive. 

What do you think?   What would you like to see happen in your relationship?   

'ducks

Since she doesnt want a relationship Im not sure how to answer that. I know I want a commitment now. Her hanging out with friends to all hours of the night and me not seeing her and barely hearing frim her for days is a terrible feeling. I feel like she does this with purpose. Manipulation.  I feel like Im tested constantly.
I want her to commit, to which she cannot. Its like she leads 3 very different lives. Work life( which she claims Ill never get it)! She hangs out with all these women from work A LOT! But Im not aloud to meet them. She keeps things very hush hush on facebook, never EVER liking anything I post, but liking my friends posts. She tells me how hot her friends are at work and how they all have horrible boyfriends. She is attracted to straight women. I cant compete I feel anymore. One day youll talk to me and the next you wont. I tearing up just talking about it.  I am trying to keep myself together, but every day is acstruggle.  She knows how much she hurts me and always says this is all I can give you, Im sorry. Says she loves me and doesnt want to lose me.  She admits to being selfish. Im clearly hurting.
I want her to get help. I remember her best friend said something Ill never forget last year... ." You've met K. (Insert her last name) your life will never be the same again"!
Ive seen the love she has to give and its plentiful. But she also witholds intimacy as well.  Its all on her terms, the only way to stop adding fuel is stop this entire thing. If I can only get to why , WHY... .I feel soo stringly for her and in the past Ive been able to walk away anyone who didnt treat me right. I dont deserve this. The last time i seen her was 4 days ago and now the texting has stopped, another test of who will text first... .i feel of I text her ill be just reinforcing all of this. Am I losing my mind? Thank God fir this group! Thank you everyine for each every reply. Ive taken notevof all of them. I uearn for strength right now... .Ducks, thank you so much for all of your responses they have made this more clear.  I love her yes, very very much, but at what cost?

Lynn324,

I'm so glad you have found us... .  

My heart was breaking for you as I read your posts a few times. 

You have been through a tumultuous relationship (r/s in our shorthand on these boards).

Sorting through conflicting emotions and  thinking is hard work.

I like plans.  Given that you have gone through the r/s wringer... .and you have these conflicting feelings and ideas... .I think you need an extra special plan to take care of YOU this weekend.  Push the pause button and heal a bit.

Sorting out big issues when you are worn out is rarely a good idea.

What can you do this weekend for some extra special self care?

You deserve it... .!   |iiii

FF

I have not texted at all today, she hasnt either.  I guess Im done. Im worth so much more the the games that I know she keeps playing.
Tonight I m attempting grocery shopping and another netflix night. My family is now noticing the change in me and thats conceening.
The silent treament hurts. Ive done nothing wrong and yet she just goes silent. Then will accuse me of not contacting her. Im mentally exhausted that Im dreaming every night now to the point where I know what each every dreams about. I want my life back.  How do you cope with the silent treatment? Do you give in and text or just let it go? What works and what is healthy. I feel the longer I go from texting the more mad shell be, but truly she stopped texting me. What to do, what to do... .?at this point Im just letting it go. I dont wanna argue over it and I find no matter what I do... .Its a no win.  Do i call her out on it... .Just no answer... .

Calling her out is NOT healthy.

Let's look big picture.  When someone "tells" you by words and actions that they don't want to talk to you... .it is best to believe them

They know themselves best.

Perhaps they know they would not be able to control themselves... .who knows.

Again...    

Be kind to yourself.   

FF

I will not call her out on it, no worries. I m pretty sure I can't handle this anymore. Im exhausted... .In love and exhausted due too it. I guess I m really here to end it eith her, but in a constructive way. It hurts too much to donit in person.  I feel like Im giving up on her, so that's hard to deal with. My sanity at this point is in question and Im not liking what Ive become. In many ways I just let her do what she wants, when she wants which is good, but there are no boundaries here. Trying to eatablishing them I find extremely taxing. There is no reaching her I feel. She needs help and I can't do it for her, let alone keep myself whole. This breakup will be extremely difficult as Ivevinvested soo much emotionally and physically for her. Im tired, my mind is feigning for a break from all this. I know that I attract this, so stopping that may be my best recourse. I dont know myself snymore. This is not love... .This is pain at its finest. I wish I cd go back and be her friend as a child, I truly do.  Tell her that everything would be ok.  I would not wish this or any mentally ill disorder on anyone, it litterally robs you.  Maybe one day she'll seek help... .But alas it will not be when Im around. Being kind to my soul this weekend as much as I can.  AGAIN THANK YOU ALL, each and everyone of you for taking the time to counsole me during such a ricky time in my life. I wish you all peace!☺️

Hi Lynn,

I understand.   What you wrote made complete sense to me.  You have a lot going on and you sound overwhelmed.


Yes the silent treatment does hurt.   


That's a quote from this link to another page on this forum.   Here is the link to that page.

https://bpdfamily.org/2008/07/silent-treatment-when-your-partner-acts.html (https://bpdfamily.org/2008/07/silent-treatment-when-your-partner-acts.html)

What's the best reaction to the silent treatment?   See it for what it is.  It's about their feelings and about winning control.   See it for what it is.    It's about them.   Not you.   Generally, the best reaction is to, let the person have their silence - don't retaliate (lower yourself) and don't give in (reward bad behavior). Go forward without them and let them catch up when they are ready. You aren't alone. Stay centered. Don't lose perspective.  Shopping and Netflix are good.   |iiii   


Most of us arrive here in crisis of some kind, beaten down, confused.   I did.   Shortly after I got here my partner had an episode and it disturbed me so badly I couldn't sleep for weeks and lost about 15 pounds.    When it gets this bad we all suggest a return to basics,  eating as well as you can, sleeping, getting restorative and refreshing sleep, trying for a little exercise and outdoor time.    It's taken several months of confusing and upsetting behavior for you to reach the point of exhaustion and disruption.   It's going to take a little while to work your way back out of it.   You can do it.

Do you see the side bar to the right?   Step Two - take a step backward - extract yourself for the day to day issues, create some thinking space - create some rejuvenation space ?

I would cut and paste the entire article in here but that would just be silly.   So please click on it.   :)

What I hear you saying is that you want emotional and intellectual space without doing more damage.  That's healthy.    Letting go of the drama and the battle, letting go of the hurt feelings and resentments will help get you the emotional space you want.   When drama, battle, hurt and resentments arise, take a deep breath, mentally step back, acknowledge this is not where you want to be.   Tell yourself you are working to do the best you can.   Find some small way to move forward.    And I mean small.   


What do you think?    How does all that sound to you?

'ducks

This all sounds wonderful Ducks! Its almost been two days of no contact. She literally just stopped texting. No fight, no drama just stopped. This has happened before and she said... .You almost failed. Im like failed what? Shes like failed a test. I acted as if I didnt know what she was talking about so she would explain more. She said, you went slmost 48 hrs without any contact to me. I said well Ive been terribly busy and I also mentioned she cd of picked up the phone. Shes like yeah but I was waiting to see if you were gonna go the full 48 and had you done that, I would of had had to have a "Lynn" talk with you. Meaning a stearn talk.
So Ducks this is the second time she is doing this. She wants me to reach out snd text her, but I want to end this game/ test. It now has been 2 days and yes Im hurting... .But if I text it rewards her and makes me feel defeated. When I dont want this test/game in my life at all.  So I will continue no contact, but what happens when she finally texts or calls. Im not sure what to say anymore. I sent the last text, to which she never replied. What to say what to say... .Act like nothings wrong that I truly was busy or... .?  I just dont know.

My gut says let her contact you.  :)on't overthink this.  

If you went and looked at the text record... .is the ball in your court... .or hers?

In other words... .if you asked a question and she hasn't responded... .give her space to think.

If there is an obvious question she has asked of you... .give it some thought and answer it... .but stick to the subject.

Honestly,  I'm not a fan of text for "doing" a r/s.  I try to stick to logistics on text and email.

It is much more important that you be kind to yourself... .than you sort out the "rules" of NC or silent treatment.

Guess what... .we know you pwBPD will keep changing the rules... .right?  

FF

We were in the middle of a hey how was work coming from her and i explained. Then I said its soo cold outside and that was it... .Not a word from her since. Odd, very odd.  So yes no over thinking and I shall remain no contact.  I guess Im more afraid if she contacts me as to what to say. Trying to keep this positive but show her that is not healthy in terms shell get and not feel abandoned. Hard, very hard.

The rules ALWAYS change... .Constantly with her. Its like in the back her mind shes saying how much will Lynn tolerate... .I should push further and see if she'll come back. At least this is how I feel she thinks.

So... .just to confirm... .you texted her something... .looks like a statement, not really a question... .and she has not responded.

Correct?

FF

No that was the last text I sent her two days ago... .In the midst of our conversation, was that it was so cold outside. And yeah it was just a statement, to which she didnt reply/ text back.   Shes been real short in her texts this week. Im not understanding because we spent a great day tigether last Monday, had a great time. So this is very confusing but at the same time not... .As she does this. She'll post on snap things shes doing like this morning.  Somehow I think Im failing her test again by not texting her. The past few weeks just have been up and down. She doesnt want a relationship she says but wants to see me still. Yet one day an ex of mine (we are fb friends) posts on my timeline and she loses it. Saying im her girl and that my ex needs to realize this.  I tols her we are just friends. Shes like yeah well if she flys here you better tell me because Ill be the first at the airport with a big surpruse.  I finally said, we are not together K.  It shouldn't matter if her and I are friends.  To which she replies, you wanna play this game then?  I said I dont want to play any games.   
Like I said the last time we were together was wuite hinestly one of the best days weve had together and now this... .

We are going on almost two days of no contact and Im unsure what to do. Give in and say whats up ( because this is childish and so unhealthy) or continue until she comes to her senses and contacts me. ?

Please leave the text alone until she texts you.  When she does... .pause for an hour or so before responding.  In fact... .might be better to post the text here and ask advice about a healthy reply.

Your goal is not to learn "exactly" what to say to each thing she may toss at you.  You goal should be to learn a new way of thinking and approaching this r/s.

Example below


You know her tests are rigged.  You know that if she clearly laid out the rules of the test... and you passed it with 100% and got extra credit... .you know that she would flunk you in a heartbeat... and it wouldn't make sense.

Do not take her exam.  Ignore it.

Thoughts?

FF

All her tests are rigged! I agree on not texting, even if its indefinately... . I can tell shes battling something internally but I can't help that.  We broke up last June, I left and went no contact. Two months later on my birthday she texts me.  That night she came over and we stayed up all night talking, really talking. She said shes mot good gf material. She said she was sorry for the way she treated me. She had had a horrible summer due to being hurt playing softball. That we have a connection and I agreed, though we both are unclear what it is.  Still to this stay will say she loves me and there is a connection. A few weeks back when she said she doesnt want a relationship she also said " I love you L, but you're in love with me". I dont want to hurt you. But I dont want to stop seeing you. Her inner turmoils has me sad most of the time.  When I try now to gain distance and try to live my life she thinks Im seeing someone else.  I am in love with her, that I know. I've never cheated in my life.  She asked me once... .You never cheated on your ex of 7 years, even when you werent being intimate for 4 of those"?  I said NO, it never crossed my mind.  Background on her is she was in a longterm serious relationship and she cheated on her gf once and then told her about it... .Her gf was devasted but remained. A year later... .Her gf had a guy come over and proceeded to have sex with him knowing what time K would be home. K walked in on this right in the middle of it. It has never left her mind. She doesnt trust women at all. I cant imagine the immense pain that she went through with that.  According to her bff, this girl was THE GIRL.  K couldnt stand what she did and it ended up ending.
I just wanted you all to get a bigger picture, but still what made K cheat in the first place. Now I know, that her mental instability prob played a huge roll in that.

Hey Lynn,

I'm very much sitting where you are and I know it's totally a helpless and just disorienting position. its snowing here and my plans for the day fell through.  I had to leave my phone at home and go for a walk.  It's frigging ridiculous to admit that.  While walking I realized my face was down and looking at the ground. (Partially though because I didn't want to get snow on my glasses)   but I also noticed my fists were clenched inside my gloves and jacket.  I unclenched them, took a breath and smiled. 

Both formflier and baby ducks have replied to my post, and I know what's it's like to feel pushed in one direction.  That if I don't text am i giving in, and if I do am I opening myself up to whatever the hell is going on in my BPD traits or just nothing. 

Instead I made some texts to friends.  I did laundry. For you mentioning Netflix. I suggest Gilmore Girls or this danish crime thriller called Nobel.  (Because its in danish, the subtitles require more attention. Gilmore is just great,and they do talk fast).  I do say this, knowing full well I'm just ignoring the white elephant shaped cell phone.   

Hey there Lynn,

Here are a couple of ideas to turn around in your head.    

There is a difference between emotional reality and emotional reactivity.   Yeah I know big weird words.   *)

Emotional reactivity is this:   "I tried to be pleasant today, but you were rude. If you would be pleasant and caring, I would be pleasant and caring."

Emotional reactivity focuses,  very intently on the other person.   What she is doing, not doing, what it really means that she is doing this or not that,  why she would do this or that?   Beyond what is normal for understanding.

In a r/s with a pwBPD you want to deliberately and consciously dial down the reactivity.   pwBPD are highly sensitive to the people around them,  are great at reading other peoples moods and often times get it very right.   It looks like this,   she gets upset, which bothers you, she notices you are upset and this dials up her emotions,  you realize she is ramping up and get more disturbed and bang you are both on the roof with your emotions.  

Center yourself.    She has done this before disappeared and then reappeared.   There is a strong chance she will show up again.    

I would suggest you consider changing the focus,  to what Lynn wants, what Lynn feels, what Lynn  will and will not tolerate.    Focusing on the emotional stable personality will, by default produce a more stable experience for you.

Here is another thought to turn around in your head.


Your thoughts/feelings/ideas drive your actions.    Not her thoughts/feelings/actions.   In other words you do what you think is the right thing based on your processing of the situation.   Not in response to another person's desires.   Did your mother ever say to you,  if Johnny Johnson jumped off the Empire State Building would you jump off the Empire State building.   It's the same concept.   Only bigger.

And when/if she contacts you don't JADE.   Justify Argue Defend Explain.

Engaging in a circular argument with her by Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining gives her what she needs, a place to dump her negative emotions and leaves you holding the bag.    You will never 'win' a circular argument, you will give her the opportunity to vent.

My partner is quite diminutive, and yet she contains with in her small frame all the fury of a volcano at full boil.    Opportunities to let that out releases pressure that builds inside her.   Doesn't work for me.

hope this helps
'ducks

Ducks thank you again! That made a lot of sense. We are going on day 3 of absolute no contact by her. Again I still have not initiated any form either. Im hurting but I also know I cant give in. This is deliberate on her part for whatever reason.  So I know not to JADE thanks to you, but if im not justifying or defending myself when she does reach out what and how do i act.  I can picture her texting or calling and saying whats up.  Me saying not too much. I always keep it short answers. Then shell probably ask what Ive been doing which will lead to, why cant you text? Then are you mad at me? ... .I guess I just say, I ve been busy with things here at home, relaxing and no Im not mad what so ever. Does this sound reasonable. As far as her asking why I didn't text... .Not sure what will be my reply. I know what Id like to say... .Lol. Also if she asks is this it are we done, not sure what to say. I know in my heart I dont want to be done, but I also know I can't keep this up and keep my sanity unless shes willing to get help.  All of this has played heavy on my mind for 24 hrs now. I just need guidance as to what to say. Im pretty good at staying calm with her.

While all this is happening she is snapping her wild night out not to me but I can see the videos. I have not looked at them as I ll just be angered. This is all to show me she doesnt care or life goes on, but it really shows me is that shes hurting and conflicted.
Shes told me before she does better alone. I really dont believe that.  But maybe I should.  At this point I have my entire family saying nows the time L to let her go. You deserve the world and you have so much to offer. These things I do know and by anyone else Id probably of ended it a long time ago. There is this connection, its a deep one with her. But I dont want to be her FWB anymore... .I love her too much for that. I realize in so many ways she needs me more then I need her.  I can see past the disorder and when she is calm its quite smazing.  But again I cant stay too long or she gets ancy and then sometimes she gets sad if I leave to early. I can never tell.
Point here is she needs me there when she needs me and she has said that. She has told me she knows shes selfish and that if I cant handle it to let her know. These are conversations weve had in the past.
Big part of me doesnt want to go thru a breakup from her because of the intense pain I will feel. But I also know time heals.  I love her so much and feel are uniquenesses mesh together well... .so hard... .So hard. Ducks or FF  if you could give me somebpointers on how to handle the above questions that be great. Thank you both again!

Hi Lynn,

We can do some role playing here, but please understand that this is just role playing.  to help look at the conversation from a different perspective, not something that should be viewed as cast in stone.  :)

Her:  what's up?
You: (your authentic self but kept mild)   Not a lot,  I've been binge watching Netflix and surfing the internet.   How about you?  (this is honest but not inflammatory, and the ball is back in her court)
Her:   I've been busy out with my friends and stuff.   It's been 3 days since you texted me, why can't you text?
You:   You're right, it has been 3 days since we've texted. I noticed that too.  (notice the pronoun change? )
Her:  Well then why can't you just text me.  I've  talked about this before and I've told you what I think.
 red-flag
Let's look at this more closely for a minute.    There is a lot of subtle stuff going on here.   It's controlling.  Her needs are being given a lot of importance here.   You could say she is trying to get her needs met by manipulating the situation.   You want to think carefully about this answer.
You:  We have talked about this before, and it seems we have a hard time reaching comprise don't you think?
Her:  Are you mad at me?
Let's look at this too.   Are you sure you want to say No here?    Isn't it better for you to be honest about what you have been feeling than to try to avoid an argument by denying what you have been going through?  You want to speak your truth but keep it mild, within a framework that won't damage either you or her further.   
You:  I've been worried and upset.  I never know what's going on with you when you drop off the radar this way.
Her:  WELL YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST TEXTED ME THEN.
 red-flag
  this is blameshifting, moving the responsibility for the r/s on to you and her emotional temperature is going up.   
You:  I could have texted but I don't feel comfortable with how this plays out between us.  So I decided to do other things instead.

etc etc etc

now this is just pretend.    the real conversation you have should be in your own words with your own voice.   

hope this helps
'ducks

Note the big picture of this conversation... .which... .while fiction... .is all to real for many of us.

Please look at how there is an effort to "hook" the "non" into a JADE or some sort of "argument".

Do you see how the "BPDish" person is saying "Hey... fight with me"

I'm not for a minute suggesting that "nons" should never fight.  Some things are worth fighting for.  However, when we as a non have no intention of fighting, and someone comes along and instead of fighting with us, invites us to fight with them... .red-flag    realize they are trying to claim "victim status".

We can't change their thinking, but we are responsible for not enabling... .as much as we can control.  Which means what we do and say.

Lynn324,

Do you see this?

FF

Still no contact, but her night is posted all over facebook. Im still going strong. The is a control thing I feel. She needs to feel control over me to feel content.  If I give in... .I lose and lose big. If I dont contact her I still lose, but keep my dignity. This is so difficult. I didnt sleep well... .Hoping this was all a bad dream, but woke up to her fun times on facebook. How can this be love... .

FF, it does make sense! Im done enabling, its unhealthy. If you want me, youll get help or you will figure what your problem is and deal. She Wants to paint me bad, she even called me controlling. Which I figured was a projection.  I love her too much to continue feeding her what she wants. Boundaries or nothing. And at this rate... .It appears she has chosen to remain silent and play victim Im sure. She cant deal that someone cd love her thecway she is. I feel she actually needs me to leave because thats the cycle she is used too. Its so sad... . 
Im trying to remain strong... .. Being around people helps for now...

Currently now trying to make me jealous by having her exes post all over her page. I feel like I want to end things with a text and then block her off of everything. Now teying to make me jealous and make upset just because I wont text is just plain not healthy.  Any suggestions... .

Hi Lynn,

What I hear you describing is a lot of emotional reactivity, both yours and hers.

What can you do to dial that down?   You do not want to engage in a tit for tat with her.    What is the trigger here that has jacked up your emotional arousal?    And how can you manage your distress?

'ducks

One thing Ive never done is tit for tat with her. Because it just makes things worse.  Its childish. I dont want to hurt her by doing that, which also makes me hurt because its just plain nit cool. I feel like Im the adult here, but I have feelings. I know shes doing these things to get reaction, I refuse to play.  I do belueve its over. Sadly.  No texts from either of us. Usually Id give in and say ask whats wrong but I cant anymore. My family and friends are all trying to help me get out ofvthis.  The one thing I have not done is get her off my facebook or snap. I cried because I couldnt just delete her.  I know once I do this I can move on... .So so hard.  What triggered an emotional response on all this I guess is we went from having a good week to this. Her trying to make jealousand hurting me and me just stayingvsilent and not playing the game. I know i have to let her go.
She told me a couple weeks ago this " some of the best relationships go through many breakups". Shes like we are on part two and there maybe a part three and part Four. Shes like look at my uncle,theyve been together for 10!years and they gonacouple just fine then they split for a year and then come back"  In my my mind im thinking does she really believe thats healthy?   I assured her there would be no part three if we broke up this time. 
Im pretty sick and depressed due to this all and I honestly think she doesnt care.

1.  Don't take things personally

Several years ago when my family and I went through some "family therapy" (kids involved too), this concept was presented to me.  I'll tell you it was earth-shattering to me.  Looking back I'm kind of sheepish about it.  

Now I rephrase it in my head... ."People do what they do, because of them (not me)"

Perhaps you are right about her motivations in posting things on her wall.  Perhaps you are not.

Ultimately the reasons that she is doing that... .are about her.

How does this relate to you?

Just like the reasons that she is doing what she is doing are about her... .the reasons you are doing what you are doing are about you.  

With that in mind... .can you help me understand the focus on your pwBPDs social media activity?

Hang in there!  Less reactivity and more introspection will do you a world of good.

FF

OK... .here comes judgmental FF with a suggestion about your texting idea to end things.

I would hope that you would create a value for yourself that you will conduct your relationship ending in person. 

Look the other person in the eye and say what you have to say... directly. 

I can foresee a question about... ."what if they won't come talk to me... .?"  Well, you only control your part.  I would encourage you... .to let them know you are open for conversation... .and then respect their choices and your values.

If that means you never "get to end it"... .then it is what it is.

You have your values and they have theirs.

Thoughts about this? 

FF

Im frightened to do it in person. Its so final. Its sad. Very emotional and I feel like in order for me to end things I have to be very done, angry. Truth is Im done but seeing her would absolutely hurt more. Ive tried ending it in person and we end up still aeeing each orher. I dont want to be drawn in again.

Then... .I would recommend not sending that message.  I would focus first on being kind to yourself, sorting out things with you.

Honestly... .number 1 priority... .be kind to yourself.  Do special things each day for you.

Can you remind me again about your support system... .do you have a T... .pastor... .friends you talk to ?  Who is there for you when you need someone to "lean" on?

FF

I have been in therapy, she 65 dollars a week. I ended it with her due too the cost. I was in therapy for PTSD, which was helping.
I am leaning heavy on my aunt and mother at this point. I think frightened was the wrong word.  More like anxious because when I see her it hurts. To be completely honest I thought she'd text by now.  She is extremely stubborn. I'm sitting here thinking what in her eyes did I do so wrong? I feel I've done nothing. There is a billion diferent scenerios here that play out.

My thought this morning was Id write a letter and return her things and be done when shes atvwork. So much of me thinks Im abandoning her and everyone seems to abandon them because they can't handle them. But even though you have this disorder, doesnt mean I wouldnt walk thru it with you. But I feel being strung along, used and hurt.  I guess I expect her to feel thecway I feel and thats just not possible. 

Hurting and all my support people say is shes insane move on. Shes put you thru hell, time to get yourself back. They are right, but at the same time... .They can't imagine the grief. Thank you FF, ducks and everyone for your support!

I just got a text... .saying this

K:Did you have a fun weekend? Haven't heard from you, hope everythings ok.



I have not responded because I m teying to calm myself/center myself. Im really not sure what to Did you have a fun weekend? Haven't heard from you, hope everythings ok.

If you want to respond... .I would suggest waiting until sometime tomorrow... when you feel better about it.

I would suggest a simple, neutral response.  With your feelings a bit on edge... .not the time to be debating and talking about deep things via text... or other means.

Can you put this in your own words.

"The weekend was fine.  I hope things are well with you also."

if she tries to engage you in various subjects

"I'm a bit preoccupied at the moment.  Perhaps on Wed (or other day a few days away) I will have some time to focus appropriately on a conversation with you."

Look at my proposed answers... .they are pretty bland.  That's intentional.

They are also honest... authentic. 

They are a way of gaining space and perspective until you are more settled to have a conversation.

FF

Good work on trying to calm and center yourself.

It's okay to not know what to do.   This is a complicated and complex relationship that is stirring issues on both sides.   There is a lot to figure out.    That is why we have a deciding board.

I am going to pull you back to the "choosing a path" side bar on the right hand side of the screen.

Look at steps 4 and 5.    Embrace the realities of BPD.  She may indeed have the traits of a disorder.   None of us here can diagnosis but something appears to be going on.   Even with help the disorder is tough to manage.    You probably noticed from your own experience that therapy helped but wasn't a magic cure.    BPD is a complex disorder. There are many manifestations of it. There are many degrees of illness.    It's not recommend to try and cure or fix another person.   Experience has shown that almost always back fires.

And then Step 5.    What can you honestly expect from this relationship?  How much are you prepared to give?      What about your needs?   How do you take care of yourself first?    This relationship has affected you deeply.  Why?    As FF said "less reactivity and more introspection."

hope this helps
'ducks
 

Thank you all, especially Ducks and FF!
 What I endured over the past 4-5 days has been down right difficult.   I see now how I myself need help.
I asked her if I cd come over last night. Her reply was " sure."  I get over there and we non chanlantly talk. She finally says "you didnt text me all weekend". I scoughed and let it go.  Then a lil while later... .I brought it up.  This is how it went down.

" How are you gonna start some BS right when you know Im going to bed.  I brought the texting up an hr ago so we cd get that out of the way.  I knew you were coming over here to start BS." 
I said "I came over to talk about it yes." Shes like well TALK THEN, and turns the TV on.  Shes like look Ladyface, Im gonna ask you to leave cause I have to get to bed". It was 9:30pm.  So I asked why she didnt text, she then said why didnt you text me?  I told her I didnt want to be tested anymore, as the last time we went 2 days of no texting you said I just barely passed your test, to which I had no idea I was being tested. She actually said... .Oh yeah ibremember that and laughed. She even laughed when I told her how it hurt my feelings.  She completely didnt own anything. I said I want to spend more time doing things together. Shes like we do... .And actually I have two tickets for a bus trip to a casino on the 21st.  Then shows me a military shirt she bought cuz she thought of me. I thought that was nice.  Tells me will be extra busy the next 12 weeks as shes foing this weight loss challenge. Im like thinking, more time away from each other... .Typical!   
The point here is shes not AT ALL ready to grow up snd own responsibilty for snything. She wont take her meds wd rather sell them for extra cash. 
I stayed over and she keeps assuming what im thinking. " like i lay down and wonder why there is always an extra cover on the top sheet, i just always wanted to know.  She says " cuz its for all the girls I be *blanking*!  I say pssssh and blow it off, cuz it's not funny.  I dont know why she gets so vulgar like this. She assumes what Im thinking A LOT! And 90% of these assimptions of what Im supposedly thinking always have something to do with me thinking shes cheating. I dont get that... .I dont act jealous around her and she does a ton of questionable things that I dont pry into, because I respect that she wouldnt do that as I told her before.  Ive never cheated on anyone... .Ever... .and Ive told her that so manybtimes.  She has been cheated on, but only after she cheated first. 
I feel that yes at this point I may be more ready to end this now then I was.  The mind games, the control has literally made me ill.  She already said oh BTW the casino trip is a no go, Ill explain later she says.  Yet another plan dropped. 
I deserve more and more respect!  I do love her, but love doesnt hurt like  and blame like this. 
Im highly anxious of having to end ithis. She treats her dog bettee thrn me.

Thoughts?