BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone! :)
Me and my BPD boyfriend dated for a few months and everything was wonderful, he is the sweetest, kindest and most loving individual I've ever met and I fell very much in love with him. We went out for lunch one weekend and suddenly he ended things, we hadn't argued or anything to spark it, he was crying and very upset, said he loved me and felt horrible but 'needed time to focus on himself.' I was very confused, upset and unhappy with this decision and wanted to find alternatives like maybe taking a break or anything less permanent, but he said that was the only way. He said he still wanted to be my best friend, talk to me, see me and didn't want to be with anyone else, still loved me just couldn't maintain a relationship.

This was three months ago, in November. I was upset about our breakup and he said I could come to him if I was down, so I did, but he ended up shutting me out and saying he didn't want to hear about our breakup all the time. He refused to say how he felt about me, and ignored me on numerous occasions. When I started to pick myself up, he showed interest again, and we went out on New Years, went on a date, kissed, were intimate and I had hopes of getting back together again. He ignored me for the week after and the rest of January claimed I was annoying him constantly (I'd message every few days since we used to speak every day prior.), that I was irritating and he simply didn't like me.

Around the start of this month I sent him a message saying that he lashes out at me really often and it's really hurt me, thinking that maybe if he knew that what he says has an effect, it would change things. He said I deserve it because I'm annoying, and is thinking about cutting me out of his life altogether. A few days later, he was suddenly really sweet again and started saying that he wants to understand how I'm feeling, and that I can come to him no matter what, even if he's busy. He asked if I wanted to hang out, and asked if he could call me a few times, which he used to do often when we were dating and so I got my hopes up.

He sent me a message a week ago that said 'I do love you, I hope you know that, but I just can't be with anyone right now.' We hung out the following weekend and he was affectionate and we were intimate, I thought everything would be fine until he shut me out for the last week. He's barely spoken since, I've asked him if something's happened or if there's anything I can do and been completely ignored. It's so confusing and difficult, he's the most wonderful person I've ever met but I have no idea of understanding how he's feeling. I want to work things out with him and be in a relationship with him because I'm willing to do everything to share the weight of this illness for him, but he won't let me and I'm at a loss.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry for rambling on but I'm not sure how to explain it in less words! x

Hey Luh24.

From my experience there isn't a thing you can do to convince this person of anything. It's up to him. I tried every possible thing with my ex and it only pushed her further away. Unless she felt like I had started moving on. Then she would pull me in only to realize I still very much loved her then went cold again. She is the one who told me were going no contact. She also started dating someone 2 weeks after we broke up. Might be different from your situation. However I could only suggest don't follow in my footsteps and I assume many others. Work on yourself for the time being reclaim yourself go NC/LC only respond to him if he speaks to you don't reach out to him. If he reaches out to you don't throw yourself at him. Show him you're a human with worth. You need to be valuable for anyone to want you not just him or someone with BPD. You need to have rock solid emotions any sign of weakness is a ticket to be used against you.

Also take some time to read some of the material on this website if you haven't. The suggestions of how to speak to your (ex)partner helps alot. When I tried using them I had slight success. We spoke effectively, then I'd push too far and get thrown off a bridge. Now I'm in limbo where I'd like to give this relationship a second chance but shes off dating someone else it's been exactly a month of NC. We broke up in December. Trust me you don't want to be in my position.

*welcome*

Dusi gave you some very sound advice.

It isn't so much about convincing him to come back to you, it's more about him want to come back to you because you're an attractive and worthy person.

Based solely on what you have described, he starts to get close, starts to feel the intimate connection with you and then gets scared, so he pushes you away. Our natural reaction is to chase. Chasing only intensifies the fear and a pwBPD will just react even stronger.

Learning what you can about BPD will help you understand these dynamics better and put you in a better position to deal with the situation. Also, understanding your own emotional reactions will help you a great deal.

Keep posting. We will help you and support you as best as we can.

Hi Luh24  ,

*welcome*

I'd like to join the others and welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear that. I'd like to touch on what Meili said about learning about BPD because it's very important, you mentioned that you'd carry the weight of the disorder for him, I know it's just a figure of speech, it's interesting that you said that.

There are only two things that we can control, our thoughts and feelings we can't our pwBPD, i'm not saying that you're doing that, what I am saying is that BPD is a life long mental illness and we need to accept that our pwBPD have social impairments in r/s's, BPD is chaotic interpersonal r/s's, your bf is who he is.

You're doing the right thing with reaching out for support  |iiii What we can is change our responses to our pwBPD, his behaviors are not personal to us, that doesn't mean you can't have your feelings about them, it just means that he can't control BPD and he's going through his own stuff internally, it's not personal to you.


I think that this a good example of BPD behavior, the reason why he stopped ignore you when you picked yourself up is because when he saw or heard of how he caused you pain, it validates his dysfunctional behavior and it triggers feelings of shame, guilt is feeling like you did something wrong, shame is feeling like that there is something wrong with us, these are very powerful feelings and when you started to feel better, he wasn't confronted with those feelings of shame, some experts say that BPD is a shame based disorder. Again, it's not personal to us, but I completely understand that you were seeking closure, many of us here can relate with that.

Thank you everyone for your insights, it really helps to get a better idea of things :)
We had a dispute at the start of this week as he said he was unhappy and I asked if he wanted to talk about it. He took this as me being too involved, got upset with me for 'prying' and being nosy, saying that there's some things he doesn't want to talk to with anyone, let alone me. It's little instances like this that really confuse me and I'm not sure how to handle them. I'm hurt by being insulted when I'm just trying to help, but I don't want to argue with him or get upset about it because nothing good ever comes from it, but it's exhausting to be passive all the time.
I've asked him if he can communicate more how I can help when he's feeling bad, whether he'd like space or to talk and that I'm here for him whatever and today he politely asked me for space rather than just ignoring me or lashing out, which I feel is a step in the right direction. I do want to make this work, learn how he feels and be someone he can count on but it's hard to always put him first, I feel like I can't defend myself without making situations worse.
 A lot of friends around me have told me to just drop him for all the difficulty and upset he causes me when he lashes out, but I feel like it isn't his fault that he acts erratically. This is part of him and I believe things will get better, he's taking steps to make that happen, but I just don't know when things will improve. As I said, he's the loveliest person but he's so unpredictable, I think he's worth all the effort and hard times if it might mean he feels he has someone who understands him in the end, but it gets me so down at times because I never know what he'll do next. There's certain things like if he started dating someone else out of nowhere or cut me out of his life that would effect me greatly and I have no idea how I'd go about it. I want to believe that he wouldn't do something like that, but I have no idea just how unpredictable he is.

Thank you for your input and this is really interesting to think about because I hadn't really thought about how me venting made him feel since I thought he already knew I felt 'bad' about our breakup, so I didn't think it'd make things particularly worse. The problem is I don't know if when he causes me pain or things get to me whether I should not discuss them with him because it'll bring him down, or whether I should discuss them with him and perhaps it will lead to him understanding how I feel more.

It's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes when you have so much tulmutousness and eratticness going on inside and your emotions get cranked up two thousand fold, he feels emotions more intensely than you or I, BPD is emotional regulations, it's asking too much, earlier I mentioned social impairments, these are the impairments I'm talking about.

There are some times that are better to discuss things than others. Typically when a pwBPD is in a state of emotional dysregulation, your feelings won't be heard. That's what Mutt was saying about it being hard for them to empathize.

The good news is that there are techniques that you can use when he isn't in a state of dysregulation that will help you to be heard. It is far more likely that you'll be heard when you utilize those techniques. You can read more about them in the article: Listen and Be Heard (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0).

Hey Luh24,

welcome and hello  :)

There's a bit of a difference between being passive and depersonalizing the behaviors.

He is likely to feel bad about feeling bad, if that makes sense. If his stuff makes you feel bad, then the spiral kinda goes on and on. When you take care of yourself, that is in essence an act of love toward him because it prevents him from treating you badly.

When his emotions are better regulated, he won't have to look back and process the shame of what he just did because you will have protected yourself for the two of you. If he doesn't remember (it happens), your sadness and hurt won't fully make sense to him.

It's a fine line to depersonalize the attacks while working through the hurt you feel when pushed away.

I am always amazed every time I read a post just how much it resonates with me. The stories and patterns are so similar that sometimes I wonder if it's the same person we are talking about.
I wholeheartedly empathise with you. I have been through a similar experience. And to say it's all confusing is just an understatement.
The past few days I have had to really think hard about everything. I too wanted to work things out and have a relationship despite all of the drama. The last time I spoke to my ex, we had a heart to heart and he was willing to listen to me. The next day, he told me how much he hated me.
Now it's at this stage and I am taking time to think about things. I've been the one pleading my ex not to give up on us, just like you. And he's been talking about working on himself and not able to give me what I want... .Sound familiar? He also has someone else for sex, no commitment with her, and so he's seemingly satisfied.
I haven't been able to get my head around a lot of stuff, have not slept and my health is suffering.
I don't know what the magic pull is of these guys, why i keep putting my hand in the fire, why I keep coming back for more of this abuse... .? I don't know how to break this cycle. If you were my friend, what advice would you give to me? If I were your friend, what advice should I give to you?

It seems to me the answer is so obvious, and were both in denial.

Take care of yourself first... .

The advice that I would give both of you is to change the dynamics of your relationships. There are some great tools on this site to help you do just that. Learning more effective communication skills will go a long way to change what you're dealing with. There are some basic ones in the sidebar to the right.

Things don't have to stay the same in your relationships. You have control over what you do and what you are willing to accept. You can define and maintain boundaries that protect you and your core values.

None of us want anyone to continue to play in the fire. We're here to help support you and get you out of it!

Thank you, but it's too late for me. My ex won't talk to me - he blames me for the break up as I caused his outbursts. I am replaced already and blocked from communicating with him. To say it hurts is an understatement. I felt that most of the time I was in a tornado of confusion. I am sure better communication techniques would have helped, but I am not convinced the relationship could have been saved.

I'm meant to be seeing my ex tomorrow, I really want to say to him in person that I want to be with him and we can sort this out in a way where it's a positive thing and doesn't take a toll on him, but I also feel like this may be a terrible idea and might make him feel like I've disregarded everything he has said over the past few months. Bit confused as to whether or not it's worth a shot.
I feel so sure that if we could just have some kind of stable foundation again, like saying we're together, we could work this up slowly from the ground up this time as the first time was quite rushed from just friends straight into an intense relationship. I don't want the 'honeymoon phase' that we had for our relationship per se, just to be with him and guide it as well as possible alongside his therapy and hope it works out.

I've too received threats to be blocked before, I was so taken aback by it because we cared about each other and suddenly he doesn't even want to give me the chance to talk to him. I feel your pain  

People with BPD tend to externalize emotions. If you are strong, that helps him hook into his own emotional strength. If you come across weak, he resents that (it hits too close to home -- he needs you to be the strong one).

Can you do that tomorrow? Be the attractive woman he fell in love with.

Go light on conversation about the relationship. This is a loaded topic and he is more likely to push you away further if it comes up.

We met up last weekend and all went well, he seemed happy and we almost acted like a couple, were intimate and the like. Yesterday he posted on Facebook about wanting to travel but doesn't have anyone else who wants to do that with him and I messaged him saying I do too, and maybe we should travel together. He got very annoyed, saying that I don't like to travel and I'm just pretending to get him to be with me (I do like to travel so I was confused), made it into a huge conversation about how I keep acting like we're together and he just wants me as a friend, nothing more.
I asked him to call me so we could calmly talk about what I do that bothers him and vice versa, but even though I stayed calm and said that we misunderstand each other at times, he kept brashly saying that we're never going to get back together, he doesn't see it happening, and that although he loves me, he loves his ex (who was awful to him and he doesn't have contact with, so he definitely does not love her although she may have a place in his heart) his dog too, doesn't mean he wants to be with either of us. He also said that I don't have a right to be upset, as he was with his ex for a longer time than we were and he sacrificed more than I have for him.
I asked him why we broke up in the first place and he said he literally just woke up one morning and did not want to be with me anymore and I had done nothing wrong. He's also obviously very upset with himself that he's hurt me and 'done what his ex did to him, to me.' We ended the call and he said he'd speak to me soon, and sent me a text saying 'You're not the love I wanted, I'm sorry but it's true, it's not your fault or anything like that... You're not what I want, I don't think anyone is anymore... '
I am so confused. I don't know if this is all just heightened emotions and he doesn't mean truly what he's saying. He says that me being upset reminds him of how he was when his ex left him and he can't handle that thought, (she was vile and cheated on him many times) but I haven't actually said anything about being upset for weeks to him, he's just taken a dual meaning to everything.
Is there a chance this is all heightened emotions? He says things he doesn't mean at time but it all seemed so raw and real, I just don't know how to take it, whether I should give up all hope or keep trying to listen and in the background make things work.

I can see how that would be confusing.

Heightened emotions are likely real for him.

What he says or does with those emotions may be an over reaction.

There is little control over that, however. All you can do is manage your own reactions to his behavior.

Do you think he could have a fear of engulfment? The pattern in your post seems to suggest that you want reassurance that things are ok, and he pulls away from these attempts.

When you give him space, does he seem to relax?

He does, until he doesn't. If I give him space he'll often come back and seem very friendly, and then if all goes well even almost act like we're together. If I act like we're together back, he'll eventually get annoyed that I'm trying to get with him again. But I do want to be with him, and if I act like I don't when he is trying to be closer to me, I'm afraid he'll feel rejected.

This might be a key piece to being with him.

Meaning, you cannot demonstrate too much attachment without triggering his engulfment stuff.

If you want to help stabilize the relationship, maybe observe yourself to see if (through his eyes) your behaviors cross the line where his engulfment starts.

I know it's hard. It may also be the one way to minimize the extreme push/pull behaviors.

That means no responding to generic FB posts. Saying no to stuff if you have other things on your plate -- put yourself first.

You can do this gently, firmly, kindly. Be neutral, secure, confident.  *)

After a few weeks of just acting as friends, me really not acting as anything more and not bringing up dating at all, today he brought up the last time we had sex, and then told me that he was having a recurring dream that was troubling him and asked me if I could research it and figure out why he was having the dream? (I'm studying psychology, when I said 'Why do you think you're getting this dream?' he said 'I don't know, can you figure it out for me? You're the psychologist'
Apparently he's been having a recurring dream of watching, from above, a figure walk through the forest. Then he'll wake up in a random part of his room, having gotten out of bed. It's apparently happened about 5 times in the last two weeks.
I don't know if he's serious or just trying to get my attention, but he called me after work and talked about it with me as well, which again is odd since he hasn't called me since I stopped chasing him. I told him that I don't really study dreams and he just kept asking me to do more research for him, saying that I 'must know it's important since he usually would keep things like this to himself.'
Also, I told him a week or so ago that I was going to be travelling up north to pick up some furniture from a male friend. On the phone today, he told me that I shouldn't do that, it sounds 'dodgy' (I said I know the guy and I'm literally just picking up furniture, not really concerning at all) and that the guy just wants to get me into bed with him. Is this his odd way of showing that he's jealous?

What are you going to do about his asking you to research the dream?

I have a question.

Why do you think he definitely doesn't love his ex?

I mean he seems to being awful to you, and yet you appear to love him, and so why shouldn't that be the same for him?

The one common denominator in many of these threads, regardless of BPD, seems that the person being treated awfully is usually the one most in love, at least to the extent that they'll do anything to maintain it, whilst the other person doesn't seem to care so much.

I did some research and looked in some text books I had about what might cause the sleep walking and 'deep sleep' dreams and that maybe his medications might be doing it, every time I came to a new sort of 'I'm not sure but it could be this' conclusion he would then tell me something he hadn't before like 'Oh, but it's not ME walking through the forest' or, 'Oh, it can't be due to medications, I'm on the same medications, research more please!' which makes me think more and more that it's not legitimate and just a rouse to get me to sort of invest time and energy into him somehow? But he's really not one to do this kind of thing so I'm not sure.

His ex was horrible to him, she cheated on him many times and he attempted suicide last year before I knew him and she left him for the man she had been cheating on him for months with whilst he was in hospital. He rejects all attempts she's ever made to communicate with him after that and does not ever make any attempt to talk to her, he knows how bad she is for him although he also doesn't want to see her hurt. I think she has a place in his heart but he definitely doesn't actively 'love' her, just recognises that once, she was a big part of his life. I think he just said he loved her to hurt me and try to get me to snap out of chasing him and making him feel like we're in a relationship.
We felt really strongly for each other for a good while but he literally just woke up not wanting a relationship, though still loving me. It's easy to say he 'treats me awfully' but he's also been there for me when I needed it and as far as I'm aware, really tried his best to make me feel like he'll always be there when I'm down about our breakup (although it doesn't work out later on when I actually come to him.) He obviously cares about me a lot but his mental health issues get in the way of showing it I feel.

What is your motivation for doing the research?

I'm asking these questions because I'm seeing a push/pull dynamic happening here. It's just another version of the same thing mentioned by livednlearned earlier. You changed your tactics, so did he.

You have backed off and stopped pursuing the relationship.

He looked for something to pull you back (sex and the dream).

He now has you back and engaged with him on an intimate level ("he usually would keep things like this to himself"

He acted jealous and protective of you as another means of pulling you back and isolating you.

So, looking at your reactions and response to all of this, you can be able to see better how to mitigate the push/pull dynamic.

Honestly at the start I didn't notice the push/pull dynamic at all, I honestly just thought he genuinely was concerned about these dreams and wanted to see if I knew anything about it, it was only after and when he called me and started acting jealous that I coined onto the idea that anything could be up. I thought doing the research could honestly help him, and he came to be because he genuinely wanted me to help.
I do really want to be with him is the problem, although I've stopped pursuing the relationship It's mainly in the hopes that it might regulate things more so that we can then be together in the future when it's all a bit calmer, rather than pulling away so I can move on from him.
I honestly don't know if EVERYTHING he do is for a purpose or if sometimes he just says things without a motive, I really thought the things said today were just him being concerned for himself, reaching out to a friend (me) and that was it until the jealousy card kind of came out and it seemed a bit different.

Oh ok, thanks for answering.

I guess all I can say is to try not to use his mental issues as an excuse for how he behaves with you. Sure, they may be a reality, but would you allow someone without such issues to treat you like that?

You can't make someone change, all you can do is set out your needs, and then allow them to choose whether they want, can, or are willing to meet them. The worst thing someone can do is offer hope with their words, but then either keep withdrawing it, or not following through with their actions.

Only you can decide how much of that you're willing to put up with.

No, I wouldn't at all. It's just when things are good they are so good, he is so kind and the most wonderful person on earth and I truly believe that if those severe 'down' periods are avoidable for us if I know how to work around them, the effort that entails is well worth it. That 50% of the time he's lovely is so incredibly great and incomparable to anything that I feel like if it's possible then I should, I think I'd prefer that 50% hellish 50% amazing with him than 95% great relationship with anyone else, anyone else doesn't feel right and that's why I haven't left him altogether.
It's all really confusing, thank you for replying to these posts, it really helps me to gain insight and think about everything!

I don't believe it is for a purpose, at least not usually or consciously. However, it almost becomes a purpose depending on how you respond. For example, if he does x and in response you do y, and he likes y, then he'll keep doing x. He may not even realise he's doing x, only that certain behaviours result in rewarding responses.

People tend claim that those with BPD are devious and manipulative, because that's how it seems on the surface, but really it's no more devious than a dog begging because he knows it results in a treat. They're just learned response that you can either reinforce or change how you respond.

I am just so tired of him always really being the one in control, whether he means to be or not. He dated his ex for 5 years and she was awful to him, whereas I really did everything to be different to her and make him happy, but we only lasted months. I almost feel like the only way to actually get him to be interested in me continuously is if I act like I don't want him or have him on edge that I could leave at any second, which just feels like petty mind games.

He's only in control because you let him.

Refusing to allow that, and only showing interest when he plays fair, isn't petty mind games, it's just setting healthy boundaries about how you expect to be treated.

I know it seems unfair, but the reality is that one method lasted 5 years, and the other lasted a few months. You can wish it was different as much as you like, but it's just the way it is. That doesn't mean you have to be awful too him, just that what you're doing isn't working, and so you need to find a middle ground between being too awful and being too nice, and at the moment you're too much towards the latter. So, no need to flip personality overnight, just gradually move a little the other way, until you start seeing results.

I agree with what abraxus has been telling you. Have you looked at the lessons in the sidebar to the right? In particular, Tools: communication validation, and reinforcement of good behavior (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287068.msg12704924#msg12704924) and Understanding your role in the relationship (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287068.msg12704925#msg12704925)? They expand on what has been said.

He messaged today saying that he feels really low, so I asked if anything in particular had happened and the doctor is giving him new medication and he's afraid he'll end up in hospital. He had to review his medical details because he had a medical review, and explain his BPD without actually calling that because 'it makes him sound way worse than he is' as a person. He said he can't cope and feels mental all the time, just wants to be like everyone else and able to deal with emotion properly rather than jumping to extremes all the time.
He said, "I'm going to be like this the rest of my life, just relying on others to balance me when nobody should have to make the effort in the first place. I just feel so low, I hate being like this so much. I don't want to keep pushing, I can't really... It's horrible." Then he apologized, I asked what for and he said "being an ass"
This is all really odd for me as he very rarely acknowledges that he has BPD outright although he knows he does, he tries to never bring it up, and he's come to me about this rather than anyone else I guess because he trusts me? But I wasn't really sure what to say, I told him he wasn't a burden upon me or anyone and we make the effort because we want to, not because we have to. I also really tried to show I cared without saying that I know how he feels or 'it gets better' but I really don't know what to say to stuff like this. The more I've pulled away, the more he's come towards me and it's just in my nature to want to help as much as I can when he's down.
After reading the articles on here I've realised I had done a lot of things I shouldn't have, like protecting him from the consequences of his actions (he got in an argument a few months ago and the guy threatened to call the police, I was the one who stepped in and convinced the guy to not, or when he had money issues and I bailed him out.)

The thing is I don't mind being the 'emotional caretaker,' I really don't. If it helps him feel more stable and secure at any time, I'm comfortable with that, and I feel stable in myself enough and not weak that I can do that well unlike before when I had no idea why what was happening, was happening. But we're not even in a relationship. I want to be, but we're not, and I have no security in us, which I really do need. I need something, you know?
Part of me is still a little hurt from his comments which made me seem like just a distraction and replacement for his ex girlfriend, I still don't know whether to take that personally or if it was constructed to get me to back off, but if it is the case and our whole relationship was a 'distraction' then I do not even want to pursue this relationship. I can't tell what he actually means and doesn't, and if I bring that up again and ask when he's calm I'm afraid it will put him in a bad way.

There is a world of difference between being an emotional caretaker, and being an emotional leader.

What you are describing sounds more like becoming an emotional leader.

 :)

To be that, you do have to accept who he is.

I accept who he is, and I love who he is more than anything, but it seems like he hate himself so much.

We had a great day yesterday and it was wonderful and we spent the whole day together chatting, laughing, talking about things in the future and had a meal and all. He also carved me a heart out of wood (he's a woodworker) which was oddly sweet and honestly it feels like we have no bad history at all at this point. We kissed and I jokingly told him to not ignore me for a week this time, saying that usually whenever we're intimate he will not speak to me for a week afterwards and he apologized and said he didn't even realise he did that. I almost feel like things are so good at the moment that we're together, however I know we're not together.
I don't know if I should bring up being official to him again or just distance myself and wait for him to do that himself? I feel like a relationship this time, I could know better what may happen and be there for him more and be more comfortable myself in the relationship as I know more what he's like now. I'm wondering whether I should just ask him if he likes me in that way, rather than mentioning love if it seems too extreme?

Part of accepting him is recognizing that he fears both abandonment and engulfment, however he defines and feels both of those mood states.

You may get an official thumbs up that you are in a relationship, only to find yourself dumped later, then on again, off again.

Part of the challenge is that intimacy triggers emotional arousal, which can then trigger other things like cognitive distortions and behaviors that generate shame, which compounds the emotional arousal until full dysregulation, anxiety, whatnot.

It's hard  

It helps to understand this stuff so that you can depersonalize. That's a big part of radical acceptance in these relationships.