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 :thought: As an adult child of an NPD/Borderline mother and alcoholic father, I am coming to realize that I was programmed to feel fear, obligation, and guilt around self-protection and boundary setting.

Hi Freespirit,

Yes, a lightbulb moment!  |iiii


I think it is a great realization that you have had, and you are spot on. As an adult survivor of a pwBPD, this is of paramount importance to grasp and also to allow to penetrate into our very beings. It will help lead us to caring for ourselves and changing the belief system that we have have walked in for so long. As my T has reminded me, if we learned these beliefs, they can be unlearned. Keep going! You are on the right track!  :)

How does this realization affect you now?

 
Wools

My nonBPD DH taught me early in our marriage that unBPD M and alcoholic father's selfish demands were not normal. I never knew you could say no. He has been hugely supportive, and modeled and taught good adult behaviors. Through his guidance, I became my own person. However, setting boundaries with the folks was always high drama with major fall out and repercussions. They are finally both gone, I have peace.

What a tragic story; families should be a place of comfort, not unending crazy conflict. Purposefully, I married the polar opposite of my father; I chose to create a life of peace and joy and not carry the crazy into another generation.

Thank you for your reply Wools :)
Its been 2 days since I had the above realisation which set off more realizations and dot-joining. Yesterday I began to grieve on a level I had not had access to before.
Its very full on.  I am managing flashbacks. I am grateful for this opportunity to learn heal and grow and grateful to bpdfamily.  


Freespirit

Your post reminds me of the insight I had during counseling that I was raised to believe, unconsciously, that relationships are based on guilt, obligation, and need.

It's been my life task ever since to choose to base mine on liking, respect, and trust.

Thanks for your posts trailsinger and Living Life 

More realizations coming through tonight in the way of affirmations :thought:

Adult Child Affirmations 
I am not a bad person for setting boundaries 
It is safe for me to exhibit boundaries 

Congratulations on such a relevant realization.  I, too, experienced this awakening.  Also, I find that as time goes on, my realizations occur on a deeper level (such as peeling an onion, one layer at a time).

My mother suffered from BPD all her life.  I did not realize this until I was around 40-something.  Prior to that, I always felt something was wrong with me, even with lots of counseling.  She passed about 5 years ago; I don't even know the year.  But I do know the relief I felt then and now.  She lived in hell all her life.  I do hope one doesn't take his/her mindset with them into the next realm.

Now, I have discovered my brother, who has been diagnosed with BPD, is living a life of hell, too.  Having to deal with him (with more understanding than I had with my mom) has provided me opportunities to deal with the emotional trauma I experienced as a child and teen.  I resent it some days; however, I choose to see it as a blessing.  That might sound crazy in itself.  However, I believe that we are here to experience life - the good, the bad and ugly.  I often say "it's a crazy, but beautiful world."  I'm learning radical acceptance and that I deserve to be happy, regardless of what others are going through.

O, yes!  I can totally relate.  Thanks for stating it so clearly.  I had a mother who devalued me my whole life, and anytime I would get a little happiness or try to have my own life she would be there to smash it to pieces.

The sick part is she knows she has a problem, but will not get treatment.  I explain that if you act in certain ways no one will want to be around you.  Her typical response is "I don't need anybody I will just live alone for the rest of my life."

I am learning that even if she is 100% to blame for everything, I am 100% responsible for making it better for myself.

+1000  No wonder I had choose jobs that were a poor fit because I didn't want anything to do with people after all that.

Thank you for sharing Sister2   I love what you said here . 

Thankyou for sharing ijustwantpeace  I agree, no one is to blame, but we are all responsible. 

My latest realization around the FOG is that its okay to have connection needs. 

Hi again, Freespirit!


Hooray for you!  |iiii Every new realization is something to celebrate IMHO because you are processing and learning and growing. Good for you!
It was a huge thing for me to realize that it was okay to have needs. Then I had to work at figuring out what needs are and how do we define them. Still working on that one... .

Keep it up!

 
Wools

Hi Wools, great to hear from you again!   

Thank you so much for your encouragement and support

I am becoming aware of programming around always putting others before myself.
Today I had an emotional flashback with the depth of the realization and I am currently dealing with pain in my body related to the release.  It can be hard to deal with these things, but I am doing okay. Thank you for being here 

Positive Affirmation Of Recovery:
I put myself first in my recovery needs.
#MyResilientHeart

I now see how owning our story and loving ourselves through that process is the bravest thing that we will ever do. - Brené Brown.

Positive affirmation Of Recovery:
It is safe for me to turn my light on.
As an Adult-Child of an NPD/BPD mother & alcoholic father. In Recovery from C-PTSD, I am coming to understand that it was never safe for me to turn my light on, to shine. It was safer for me to go under the radar and stay within NPD  tolerance for light - which is exceedingly  low. The light is banned in an NPD household and I was a rebel, that’s why I was scapegoated.

Hooray, Freespirit!  |iiii

The light has gone on for you yet again.  :thought:

So for your celebration of recovery, tell me what you will do to let your light shine? Will you be the main star in a community play? Or perhaps you'll be a famous artist with a display of paintings? Or maybe go simple by enjoying a nice cup of hot chocolate?  :)

I am right with you though, and I was just the same way. In fact I'm finally starting to let my light shine too. Who I am is beginning to come out. It's pretty cool as we begin to find out who we are.

 
Wools

Hi Wools, thank you for your kindness and support     

I first arrived in bpdfamily in 2008 in crisis around facing the facts regarding my NPD/BPD mother. What brought me back is crisis again around facing the facts regarding my NPD 24 yr old daughter.

This time my husband and our 18 yr old daughter are also facing the facts alongside me.

As difficult as these facts are to face, I am coming to understand that without the triggering that our 24 yr old daughter has provided me/us, I/we would never have gotten to this deeper layer of insight and recovery that this thread is facilitating me in sharing.

I am coming to understand that the insights themselves are embedded within the emotional flashbacks.

You asked me what I will do to let my light shine. I feel simply coming here and sharing my story is shining my light. I have also set up a project on FB called BookClub17 that is progressing as I do in my own personal recovery. I am a recovery artist. My recovery is my art. #MyResilientHeart

ABOUT:
BookClub17 is a self-study, self-exploration and self-empowerment, EXPRESSIVE ARTS BOOK CLUB.

MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS:
Must be reading the books: The Gifts Of Imperfection by Brene Brown and Complex PTSD: From Surviving To Thriving by Pete Walker.

EXPRESSIVE ARTS:
BookClub17 uses all the disciplines of art: visual, movement, music, drama and writing/poetry for self-expression.

Educators don’t necessarily have to teach. Instead, they can provide an environment and resources that tease out your natural ability to learn on your own. Self-study, self-exploration, self-empowerment, these are the virtues of a great education. - Shimon Schocken

brenebrown.com
pete-walker.com

Freespirit,

There truly is blessing hidden within the pain, isn't there?


I've been reflecting on similar things of late, this finding deeper purpose in the struggles and hurt and wounds. At first we only want to run from it, but as we settle, we begin to find purpose in this walk that we wouldn't have chosen for ourselves or for anyone else. Then comes the flowering and beauty from it all.


I think you chose something marvelous as the way to let your light shine. Not only are you shining, but you are also drawing others to that light, to seek their own healing. Well done!  |iiii

I love your book choices, at least Pete Walker's book since I have it and keep going back to it. Such a book as his Complex PTSD: From Surviving To Thriving is not a read-and-complete-quickly type of book. He writes with nuggets of thought, encouragement for a day or week or month as we work through our past. I must admit I've not read Brene Brown's book, but I have heard about her from a friend of mine. I think Brene talks about shame... .?

Thank you so much for sharing, Freespirit. It is an encouragement and inspiration to us all.

 
Wools

Today's insight is that I have the right to be myself in a relationship!

Yes, Wools there really is! :thought:  

As an adult child of an NPD/Borderline mother and alcoholic father, My most recent blessings over the Christmas holidays were hidden within the worst emotional flashback I have ever had.

Because of it, I am now able to understand the very core of my C-PTSD triggering and see it for what it is. Which for me, is nothing short of a miracle.   

My insights are:   

I exist, even if you cant see me.
And
You can not end me for I am eternal.

#MyResilientHeart

Thank you for being here and for the work that you and others do on BPD.family   

This quote came to me the other day and I feel its a perfect affirmation for where I am  at 

Thank you ~ Freespirit 

Great insight Trailsinger. Thanks for sharing 

This is a great realization, and definitely opens up a lot of thoughts and feelings.  Major kudos to you for getting there, and allowing yourself to work through it appropriately! 

Like Living Life said, I never realized I could say no either, and it wasn't until meeting my H and seeing what a normal family was like did I see that my family was incredibly dysfunctional.  I still really struggle with the FOG, but it is getting easier (slowly, haha!).  What I try to remind myself is that while the "coping mechanism" of thinking of everyone before myself and feeling bad when I did otherwise were incredibly necessary for me to embrace when I was younger (a way to protect myself from emotional harm), they don't serve me in a positive way anymore.  They're actually a huge detriment in terms of forming healthy relationships with others, and it's time to learn new skills that serve me better.  Remembering that behaviors are learned and can be relearned helps too. 

Freespirit, that is a great revelation! However,  how do you deprogram yourself from fear, obligation, and guilt? My 73 year old BPDMom is the queen of manipulation and applying guilt esp through her money requests and her bad spending (sometimes illegal spending habits). She tells me that I owe her because she/Dad raised me. (My Dad divorced her 20 years ago). She will lie to try to get money from me too. She quotes the bible, honor they father and mother. She says hurtful things like I'm no longer her daughter and even said I'm dead to her.  My question is how to deprogram from fear, obligation, and guilt when I'm naturally a sympathetic person. However, my patience is weening.                                                                                                               You'd think I'd know the answer at 49 but I don't.

Thanks for the kudos and for sharing your thoughts CollectedChaos, I loved what you said about remembering that behaviors are learned and can be relearned   

Penny123, thanks for sharing - I love your question - "how do you deprogram yourself from fear, obligation, and guilt" I think this would make a great discussion topic if you would like to host a thread on it I would love to take part   

 

Today I am coming to understand that unconditional love does not mean lack of boundaries. Positive Affirmation Of Recovery    I give myself permission to refuse have relationships with people who refuse to self-reflect.  

#MyResilientHeart
#ThePhoenixKnows
#NarcissisticPersonalityDisorder
#NoContactIsAFirmLovingBoundary
#FearObligationGuilt

Hi Penny123, great question. I came across this article tonight and thought to share 

FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt

Definition:

FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt - The acronym FOG, for Fear, Obligation and Guilt, was first coined by Susan Forward & Donna Frazier in Emotional Blackmail and describes feelings that a person often has when in a relationship with someone who suffers from a personality disorder. Our website, Out of the FOG, is named after this acronym.

Description:

Fear is a mental process that that triggers a physical response in humans when confronted by a threat. Fear produces adrenaline that prepares us for the classic "fight or flight" response to threatening situations. When we fear, we anticipate the possibility that something bad might happen soon. Our bodies shut down all long or non-critical functions as we prepare for immediate physical action. Our digestive systems shut down and expel unnecessary waste. Our immune systems and growth systems are put on a lower priority as we prepare to deal with sudden, immediate threats. Our heart beat and breathing quickens to provide increased oxygen to our muscles. Our senses heighten and our peripheral long range thoughts are relegated. Fear is a survival instinct that preserved some of our ancestors in moments of extreme danger. So fear can be a good thing. However, prolonged fear - also known as stress or anxiety, is not so good for us and can lead to increased risk of long term health problems.

Obligation comes from an innate sense of community responsibility. We are born with an instinctive sense of obligation to those around us. Historically, humans who isolated themselves from a community were in much greater danger of perishing. Only those who contributed to the community were accepted by the community. As a result, our communities have evolved in such a way that those who have a strong sense of community responsibility are more likely to be accepted by others and ultimately to produce children. Obligation has served our ancestors well in forming communities. However, when a ruthless person takes advantage of our instinctive sense of obligation, they can manipulate our gut reactions to do things which do not always help us thrive and prosper.

Guilt comes from the same root as obligation. Most of us feel guilt when we do something that we think hurts others or disappoints of others. Our societies have evolved in such a way that it is not socially acceptable to deliberately hurt another person and those who do are often incarcerated, ostracized and condemned by others. However, our instinctive gut reactions of guilt can also be activated when we refuse to help another person. This is where most Non-PD's experience guilt because often in the process of setting boundaries, Non-PD's will have to make a choice of whether or not to give another person, who suffers from a personality disorder, something which they want, which comes at a great personal cost to the Non-PD if they say "no".

Examples of FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt

A man tells his wife - "I will kill myself if you ever leave me"
A mother tells her adult children "You can't possibly care about me if you won't come to Christmas Dinner"
A teenager tells his parents "I hate you - you've ruined my life!" when they refuse to grant a request.
A young girl overdoses on pain killers after her boyfriend ends the relationship
An office employee falsely states "everyone in the office agrees with me" after a disagreement with a co-worker.

What it Feels Like

FOG can produce a sense of dread and hopelessness and make you do and say things that you are uncomfortable with. People have stayed in abusive homes and marriages, lived in squalid conditions, suffered physical pain without medical care, sacrificed their entire wealth and some have sacrificed their lives because of FOG.

If you have been living for a long time with a person who suffers from a personality disorder, chances are you have been living with FOG and her 3 dreadful companions - hopelessness, helplessness and powerlessness. Like a defeated animal backed into a corner it is quite common to have the instinct to just lie down and take it. This can lead to a form of Learned Helplessness.

What NOT to do

If you are living in FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt:

Don't forget that it's harder to see everything clearly in fog - so everything you see isn't everything that is there.
Don't rely purely on your gut instincts or your feelings to guide you, because your feelings are mostly negative.
Don't allow yourself to be isolated and for the person with the personality disorder to be the only person you talk to on a regular basis on the subject.
Don't stop doing things that are good for you, healthy behaviors, friends, work, recreation etc.
Don't sustain any situation or relationship where you do not have the option to say "no" where it is reasonable to do so. Nobody who is a true friend will demand "yes" 100% of the time. Healthy relationships are two-way streets - not one-way streets and anyone who is a true friend or who truly loves you will give as much as they receive.
Don't sacrifice taking care of yourself in order to help another person. That just makes both people poor.

What TO do

Learn all you can about personality disorders.
Get yourself a support network where you can discuss things that concern you without feeling judged.
Work on setting Boundaries that will help you escape the feelings of helplessness, hopelessness and powerlessness.
Try to add logical rational thought to every emotional thought of Fear, Obligation & Guilt.
Try to substitute "what really works" for "what feels right" when you are making decisions.
Promptly remove yourself and any innocent children from any emotionally abusive situations.

Source: www.outofthefog.website/who-we-are/