BPDFamily.com

How to make a long story short... .

I have two daughters, my eldest is now 27 with her own daughter (turning one tomorrow) and my youngest is 24.  I divorced my husband in 1998 following an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship.  The breakup was unfortunately, very acrimonious.  His last words... .if you leave me I will make your life a living hell... .he did... .the girls were often put in the middle.  I'm not saying I was an angel (we were young and immature) and if I knew then what I know now, regretfully I would have done many things differently. I re-partnered some two years later and continue to be happily re-married.

I think my eldest daughter has BPD.  (I do not know if her father has a personality disorder but in hindsight I suspect so). If she has, I'm not sure if the roots of her behavior are genetic (as I see so many similarities with her father's behavior) or whether it has been learned/ or both.

In any case, my eldest girl has always been challenging.  A difficult pregnancy, a difficult birth... .a non-sleeper and tantrums with such ferocity that seem to have been repeated in adolescence and again in adulthood.  (Through the family grapevine, it once got back to me that my ex sister in law, when my eldest was two, stated that she would rather have three of hers, than one of mine. My eldest has always been a risk taker and as a child not readily able to connect with, or draw people to her.  However, as a teenager, her looks blossomed and to this day, she retains the stunning looks of a modern day Cleopatra that seem to be a major hindrance, and a vehicle that now draws many to her and a tool for which she now uses to her advantage to get what she wants and needs.  

I noticed significant changes in my eldest daughter's behavior at about 14/15.  She began engaging in much risk taking behavior.  Stealing (one major theft), sneaking out at night to meet boys, self-harming, over-indulging in alcohol and the beginnings of abusive behavior towards others and myself.  I changed her schools three times (also to protect her sister)... .her behavior did not change.  She was expelled on a number of occasions.  We spent time with many and varied counselors, all of whom were helpful in different ways... .her behavior did not change.  However mine did, I started to set boundaries.  

At 16 she had been playing me off against her father.  She would make demands of me... ."you need to let me stay out at night til I want and I need a lock on my door or else I'm going to live with dad".  And as I would not yield... .off she went to her fathers.  When it first happened, I was devastated and went through the whole questioning of what I had done wrong and why did she behave like this when she was loved and cared for in a way that many kids cry out for.  Anyway, she seemed to last all of about 5 minutes at her dads before abusive tirades between the two would escalate and she would be ringing me in tears... ."come get me, dad's abusing me".  It turned all of our lives upside down, eventually I told her that she was not able to come home, that I had given her ample opportunities to live by my rules and she had demonstrated that she was unable to.

So, my mother took her in... .of her own volition.  It hurt so much to be so undermined, however my mother and I have enough respect that I was able to express this to her.  However, she could not see her granddaughter on the street.  In hindsight, it gave the family some respite and allowed me and my eldest to co-exist alongside each other.  I'm always torn between whether my mother saved my eldest and me, or compromised us both. Interestingly, she always obeyed my mother.

At 18, she met a boy and they embarked on what would be volatile (on again off again relationship for 8 years).  We didn't know the boyfriend really well as they went overseas when she was 19 and they returned to another state in Australia).

However, the patterns of destructive behavior were evident... .a night out with the boyfriend's mother that didn't go well.  She left the restaurant, came home packed her stuff and 23:00 and got in the car to drive some 5000kms back to us with a cat in the car.  

She was gone again to her father's a few days later, only after having created a fight over nothing... .we found out a few days later that she had been flown back to that state her boyfriend was in, lured by a trip to Thailand.  This pattern of behavior was repeated three or four times, where she packed and moved between states following a major breakdown in the relationship,

During one of her breaks from the relationship, she met another guy in our home town ... .and when her boyfriend of eight years lured her back to the state he was from, the other guy was still on the scene and he followed her there.   Needless to say, when she had a fight with her boyfriend of eight years, she ran to the other guy and promptly fell pregnant.  After two weeks, she moved back to her boyfriend of eight years. He believed the baby to be his.  At five months she did a paternity test, confirming the baby to be the other guy's.  All hell broke loose.  After telling me, she cut me off for a month... .she didn't like my reaction to her news.  She told me that the pregnancy was the fault of her boyfriend of eight years... .She said "It's all XXX's fault, I was the perfect girlfriend, if he had treated me better, none of this would have happened".  :)uring this time, she was on the phone often.  I asked her to see a counselor... .she went to the GP for referral and was referred to a psychiatrist.  It was there she was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have very recently dared to ask her about this diagnosis and she told me she lied and that the psychiatrist told her she had ADD.  I still can't work out why she would lie me to me about this.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, during this time, my husband and I had moved to another state for work. I only re-connected with her after saying sorry.  She did not want to go back to our state so I asked her to come to our country to have the baby.  We helped her find a house, move, helped financially, emotionally... .she even brought her two dogs which we walked constantly.  I took five weeks off work to help with the baby.  Basically, my husband and I have bent over backwards to help her. Throughout this past year, the natural father has moved his life over here to be near my eldest and the baby and it is a never ending circle of Apprehended Violence Orders that are then rescinded (she tells me he is a psychopath and a narcissist and the only reason she lifts the AVOs is because he has guilted her into it), they play happy families for a few weeks and then he is kicked out with the police in attendance following a rage (locks changed), only for him to be back with her following a series of flowers and heart felt apologies.

The baby is one tomorrow.  I have to admit I have struggled to set any limits as I have felt sorry for her and been a rescuer ( I believe she has been lying to me about her relationship with the natural father (I really have come to my own conclusions about this recently). After working all week, we have helped her all weekend, cooking meals, walking the dogs, watching the baby while she does things ( we didn't think the baby daddy was on the scene). She sensed my resentment, it came to a head and ended very badly, with her raging at us and cutting us out of her life a few weeks ahead of Christmas, my other daughter visiting and her baby's first birthday. I received so may abusive txts, calling me names and we also had the police called to our home so she could collect a few of her belongings.

I went to see the psychologist and outlined most of what I have above.  Without knowing my eldest, nor having met the psychiatrist, the psychologist believed the pattern of behavior is consistent with BPD/narcissism.  I've always struggled with "what have I done wrong".  I also wanted to know that it was not me that was the problem... .it scared me that maybe I was... after all, my ex husband had me convinced for a long time

Anyway, the psychologist supported me in not continually apologising to her to get back in her life... .so I didn't but I did say that (via txt) that I was sorry she was hurting.  We had coffee five days later when she responded.

During the discussion, I realised that I am never going to be the mother that she wants me to be... .someone who will drop their whole life to make hers better.  I set some new limits about the amount of time I would give to her.  I also set some ground rules about abusive txts, and cutting me out of her life.  She wasn't happy.

The last month I have been to hell and back.  :)uring one of her 'on' times with the baby daddy, apparently he guilted her into having sex.  She fell pregnant, only to have him kicked out, locks changed... .all while my other daughter was visiting and we were - at that point - cut out of her life.  Only for us to reconcile over coffee (as mentioned above) and she tells me this news and that she wants me to help her have an abortion.  I was too scared to say anything for fear of being cut off again, except that whatever decision she made that she would have to live with.  Two days after Christmas (we made it... .she was there), the baby daddy showered her with gifts for her birthday.  He was back in again after making her feel like princess.  The following day, she told me that she was keeping the baby.  Yesterday, we had a lovely day out, just doing mum/daughter shopping.  On the way home, she was in tears about how the baby daddy was a psychopath and that if he was there when she got home she was calling the police.  When I got home, I went for a coffee with my husband and got a call from her that she thought she was having a miscarriage.

My husband and I have done nothing but provide 48 hour assistance.  Today she cut us out of her life again.  We were walking the dogs for her, and thought her ultrasound appointment was at 4:50 to confirm her pregnancy status... .it was at 4:20.  We got back at 4:10.  As we pulled up in the drive way, she came storming into the garage and raged at both of us for potentially making her miss her appointment.  My husband asked her to calm down, and she lost control.  

I sent her a txt asking her to call me when she finished at the Ultrasound.  She called in tears, not about the confirmation of the miscarriage but about how my husband had asked her to calm down and why I hadn't pulled him into line.  

Anyway, I wouldn't buy into the conversation and reminded her of boundaries we had agreed to at our make up coffee session:

No name calling
No talking about emotive issues while angy
No cutting people out of her life.

All of the above has re-occurred, I have been denigrated again by txt, we are now cut out of her life again ahead of my granddaughter's first birthday.

I have been reading "Walking on Egg Shells".  Much of what I feel is being validated.  However I don't know for sure if this is her.  There is so much to love about my eldest girl but I have been emotionally, physically and financially sucked dry and feel beyond exhausted.  I don't know whether I am Arthur or Martha from one minute to the next and absolutely adore my granddaughter that I risk losing every other rage.

I also need help with my other daughter, she is so beautiful inside and out and has told me that to be in a relationship with her father and sister is to accept a level of hurt and disappointment.

It's true about the squeaky wheel and I am so resentful and want to support my youngest.  Any guidance would be appreciated... I don't know anyone else who is experiencing this.  While I can rationalise in my mind... .the devastation feels insurmountable at present.

Hi Merlot,

*hi*

Welcome to the community! I am very sorry to hear of what you have been going through. It is so exhausting to flip from rage to reconciliation and back again in such quick cycles. I'm so glad you reached out here for support, because you've found a place where members understand what it's like to love someone with BPD/traits. You are not alone.  

I can relate to your concerns that your eldest is getting much more attention—I have felt that was the case in my family, too. But my relationship with my mother is very strong, and things have improved for all of us.

It sounds like the boundary setting hasn't been very successful. Would you say that you could use some support there?  I know it's been a challenge for me.

Your husband sounds very supportive, which is wonderful. Do you have other friends or family, or a therapist, whom you can lean on during the rough times?

Keep posting. It helps to share your story. We're here to support you.

heartandwhole

Hi there merlot

Gosh, my heart goes out to you with everything that’s been and continues to be thrown your way. It’s utterly and completely exhausting and we understand that feeling.

First of all I want to thank you for posting so completely. It gives a clear picture and really helps get a grasp of your situation. I’m going to keep this brief as possible because it’s pretty clear you’ve got a lot to cope with right now. Your daughter doesn’t do anything on purpose. Once I recognised this in my own son27 it helped - he can’t help the way he behaves and as difficult as it is to understand he’s doing his very best.

I commend you in attempting to set some boundaries and this is a massive step. It sounds as if there's a few, shall we say,teething problems adjusting to this new “normal”. Be gentle with yourself as it takes time to learn how to change your approach and of course deal with their reaction. I faltered, kept going gently, inching forwards. Persistency and consistency.  Understanding my role wasn’t to fix but emotionally support while he continued until he had the motivation to change his situation.

If something isn’t working then a change of approach is needed. Sadly, this is up to us so we find a way to cope ourselves because our kids are unable to break the cycle.

Take care of yourself.

Hugs

LP

Hi  My DD31 is my BPD person. She was dx'd at age 23. She has been a challenge from a very young age. As I have become better at the tools and skills learned here and from the supporters in my life things have gotten better in my relationship with her. The boundaries you have instated are very similar to my basic requirements -- except cutting me out of her life. I just remember that is temporary until she needs something! Stick to you boundaries as best you can.

The book that helped me the most in all this is "Loving Someone with BPD" by Shari Manning. You can check it out in book reviews at:
 https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/loving-someone-borderline-personality-disorder

I have also worked through most of the tools and lessons in the sidebar. Then practiced them in all my relationships. Baby steps over a few years for me to gain better center for myself, grow stronger in my marriage, and let go of feeling responsibility for all DD's problems. It is still an ongoing process.

I also get the grandparent thing. My DD just had her third child. She did not raise the first two. My dh and I have always been primary in our gd12's life. Our gs10 was adopted by his foster parents when he was 2. He was placed in their home at 5 months. We now have a 6 week old gs who is living in another state with DD and the daddy. We are providing a portion of their financial needs including renting them a place to live.


Look forward to getting to know you better. Keep coming back. I understand and care.

To those of you who have responded, thank you so much.  I have felt very alone as I do not know people in my close circles of family and friends who have/are going through this.    

I am grateful for the tips and advice and clearly there is much to learn from the guidance and tools on this website that I am slowly looking through.  I recognize that I am not skilled in dealing with mental health issues and have most likely spent a lifetime doing and saying things that may have exacerbated the behaviors.  

I do know that I love my daughter, but I don't love her behavior.  I am also devastated that I may have contributed to her BPD and I hope through better understanding and learning that I can have a 'better' relationship with her, noting that I will grieve the loss of a smooth and healthy relationship as I have with my own mother and my other daughter.

I should also mention that I am intending to revisit the psychologist and I do have some close friends who have been very good listeners.

So, further to my original post, one of the abusive texts from my DD was that she was moving back to our original State to be with "people who cared about her"; namely her father.  I knew she would end up there eventually as she was unable to reconcile her university curriculum effectively in our current State, however I didn't expect it to be so soon.  Over the past month she has been packing. 

Anyway, as mentioned, on our day out (mother/daughter shopping) we had picked up a big balloon decoration for my GD's first birthday, which I kept at my house ahead of the party.  Having being cut out of her life within hours, I txt her to say I would deliver the balloons to her house ahead of the birthday, which I did.  We exchanged them at the front door, and as I turned to leave, she said "your should be at GD's first birthday".  I said "fine" and left.  My husband refused to attend.

I attended the party.  It was as though there was no conflict; she was at her most charming behaviour.  (I should mention here that over the past year, my daughter has spent time online trying to make friends.  She met a guy, who was and is a very good friend to her, however has fallen in love with her.  He has introduced her to his family and they adore her.  She has attended some of his family events and his mother is keen for them to have a relationship.  My DD does not reciprocate his feelings and he knows this but still wants to be friends with her.  Whenever the baby daddy was around she would cut him off, only to resume the friendship when the baby daddy was "out" (she needed help walking the dogs, etc).  So given she has recently cut ties with the baby daddy, myself and my husband, she resumed her friendship with this guy ahead of GD's birthday party and needing help with packing and moving.

On my GD's birthday I arrived and he was there with his mother and grandmother, to whom I was introduced to and basically "glared at".  My DD acted as though everything was completely normal.  I just kept my focus on other guests.  I said goodbye to my GD and (very loosely) my daughter, knowing I would most likely not see them again before they departed the State, due to her having cut me out.

Today I spoke to my youngest and she advised that my eldest is expecting me to chase her and say goodbye to my GD before she leaves the State next week.  I can't do it.

While I have been reading people's stories and some of the literature,  I have to say that at the moment, I need space from her to recover and heal, before I can contemplate looking at new techniques or skills in dealing with BPD. 

Rationally, I can totally understand how I may need to move forward in the future with her, however, emotionally I am struggling to catch up. At the moment, I feel angry/devastated;

angry at how much we have done and invested in her
angry that her punishments towards us are without basis
angry that I have to do all the work in considering how I relate... .because she can't
angry that she is currently not accountable for her actions as she twists them all onto us
angry that I am having to go through this a second time after dealing with my ex-husband father... .when will it end
angry that my husband and I are constantly denigrated to others
angry that we will watch her hurt others from a distance, namely my youngest when she returns to our original home state
devastated for her that she will most likely lead a difficult and exhausting life with destruction and broken relationships
devastated and scared for my GD and DD24.  They are beautiful souls and will go through hell
devastated that we have arrived at a reality of BPD

Today started really well, and then later in the day, the pain which ebbs and flows feels indescribable. 

I really have been taking courage out of the post: Detaching with Love... .I think I have read it three times.  My boss once said to me that: "the journey of a thousand miles starts with one small step"... .I'm sure joining this community has been that first step. 

Hey, Merlot -

All of that sounds awful for you and I empathize with you, especially on the anger and grief portion of your post.  I feel the same emotions about my situation.  You are not alone.

I don't have a lot for you except solidarity.  I hope today is a good day for you and yours.

Thank you just you wait.

While I am reading through links, I'm still processing my feelings.  Although not in a good space right now, I'm hopeful that things will get better and I know I'm in the right place.

I hope you are travelling well.

Merlot

Three days ago, I tried to reach out to my DD as I really didn't want her and my GD to leave the State without having the opportunity to say goodbye.  I sent a txt using SET principles.  I received a nasty vitriolic txt back saying all sorts of untrue and horrible things; the real punch in the guts was the part about my husband and I now being dead to her.  I have not responded as nothing good can come of it.

It was and continues to be very painful, however today I am feeling more positive.  I have been reading about "estrangement/grief" and trying to move forward.  I don't want to be sucked into a black hole.  I love her but I love myself too.  I don't want to be hurt anymore and have my persona eroded.  There are so many people out there that I have positive relationships with and they're the ones I want to focus on.   I have a friend battling breast cancer and in supporting her I'm also reminded that every day on this earth is a good day and despite the pain licking at my heels, I want to be busy living and enjoying the good things.  Today I feel resilient and stronger :-)

Hi there Merlot

I’m glad you’ve re-read the Detach with love thread. It’s so great isn’t it.

It sounds to me that you’ve come a long way in such a short time and are able to recognise where you’re at emotionally. I could have written the same list of deeply felt grievances myself. It’s a lot to handle and, yes it takes time to process. Let’s face it there’s a long list of problems. For what it’s worth, I personally found that a they sort of slipped away, not all at once but once I started to focus and build my own life again the pain went. There's a lot that we can do to help ourselves to not get stuck in that bad place and inching forwards. We get bad days!

Spending time doing things we enjoy, time with upbeat people and helping others. A perfect way to help yourself gain some balance. I found that learning new things helps me so I took a college course. My poor fellow students put up with me for 2 years as I “processed and detached” - I’m a slow learner  :)

One day at a time. Baby steps. I hope you have a great day 

LP

Thank you Lollypop

It really is baby steps.  I realise that the only way back to my DD's life, after she cuts me off, is to acknowledge that the sins are all mine and beg her forgiveness. I too have had much fear of changing this pattern of behaviour; the fear being that I will lose her and my GD forever which is so painful to have to accept. Howevr, I can rationalise that I've been my own worst enemy in this regard, as it's perpetuated an unhealthy relationship.

I haven't heard from her but I've been focusing my energy and working very hard this past week to do more positive things; it's definitely helping but it's not to say that I didn't catch myself tearing up on the treadmill or over coffee.

I have been thinking about if she contacts me and what I would say.  I have decided to write a small script using some of the techniques here to keep me focussed.  Trust and re-investing is a big thing as I'm not sure that I could handle the rug being pulled out again, especially as it involves my GD.  BPD is such a journey of self exploration.   

What a great idea, Merlot. If you feel comfortable sharing the script here, we could all benefit from learning with you, and I'm sure some parents will have tips, too.

Staying focused when emotions are high or I'm feeling anxious is such a challenge. My communication skills tend to go out the window when that happens to me.

heartandwhole

Thank you heartandwhole.  I am doing much reading at the moment... .thanks to this site, and will no doubt reach a point where my script will become clear for me (at that point in time) and I would be happy to share.

I still haven't heard from my DD27.  Mutual friends of social media have let me know about disparaging comments she has been making.  I, gratefully can now accept that this is part of BPD, as hard as it is to be so exposed publically.

My husband has been my rock and has listened while I turn over every stone.  I'm so grateful for his unwavering support.  My mother has been wonderful and gracious as ever. My younger daughter and I are exploring uncharted territory and reserving a placeholder of support for each other while we try to ensure the integrity of our own relationship.  I have reached out to a friend whose daughter has bipolar so that I can learn from his journey.  Best of all I have taken time to smell the roses and try to do "normal things".  It is helping to reground me so that I can be better for both my daughters.

I have some questions, if anyone has thoughts:

I've decided to commit to not chasing my DD27, in order to break the pattern of behavior.  Changing patterns is incredibly difficult and without certainty (dealing with my fear right here).  My question, I love my DD27 unconditionally but my relationship with her has to have conditions, one of which is trust... .trust that she wont just pull the rug out again, in particular as it relates to my GD.  How does one deal with trust issues in a BP child that wont accept responsibility?  

It also raises questions about abandonment.  If i don't chase her, does that validate her abandonment issues in her perception that I really don't care?

Also, i feel some confusion between validation and holding her to account for her behavior.  It seems as the two are at odds with each other.

Grateful for other's advice/experience.

Hi merlot

I’m so glad to hear you’re reading and importantly thinking about your own support network to help stay balanced. I found my friends didn’t understand, both myself and husband would feed off each others fears or anger at first. Once I stepped out of this, I could control myself and tell him that I wasn’t going there. I’d fold sometimes and then he’d be the voice of reason - we’d could hold it together as long as one of us could stay strong until the other found balance.


Yes, changing behaviours is incredibly difficult. I worked hard not knowing if I could in fact really improve my relationship with my DS27. I was in unknown territory and it’s scary. The skills I’ve learnt have helped me immensely in all of my relationships. I worked hard because quite honestly I was at a wall, something had to change because I’d literally tried everything else. The only thing in my control was myself. I haven’t got grandchildren but there are others in the forum who do - it definitely can complicate the situation and sometimes the grandchildren get used as bargaining chips. You’ve specifically mentioned that you need to trust that your daughter.  presumably you want to feel confident that she won’t stop you seeing your granddaughter?  :)o you believe that with a better relationship your daughter is less likely to do this? There’s no guarantees in life. I’m certainly not saying that you have to put up with anything so that you can see your grandchildren. This is about you having faith in the process of exploring away forwards as a family to discover how you can align with one another. By learning more effective communication skills we are able to create a more calm environment - better for everyone.

What is your daughter not taking responsibility of that you feel she should be?


I can’t truly understand how and what my DS27 feels and thinks. In a highly emotional state his thinking is incredibly muddled, he isn’t able to process quite simple concepts. It sounds as if your daughter is using social media to vent and that shows her mental state at that specific moment she’s posting. My DS27 can switch so very quickly. It can take him a long time to calm down, particularly when he didn’t know how to self sooth. I know he’s felt abandoned, then flip to “I don’t need her”, to “I love and miss her”.  I’ve found that using text, phone or email confused our understanding of one another sometimes. I reached a point that I had to get back in contact for myself and my own well-being. I loved my DS and he loved me - i felt it was up to me to try to find a way if I could.  [/quote]


Holding her to account for her behaviour -  can you give some examples?   My DS needs a lot of validation - the words help ease him but to be honest it’s the total belief that I really do understand what he’s feeling that calms him. We all want the same things in life and that’s to feel loved and to be understood. Its ok to set boundaries, in fact it’s important to - this can be done in a way that they feel validated and they understand you have a boundary. I was always too soft or too hard - I’ve found a mid-way where we both have some respect.

Im not perfect Merlot. Our family is odd but we have found a way to be a family. The skills I’ve learnt, I demonstrated. I accepted my DS back in our lives open hearted and warm for all of us not knowing if we’d manage it. It was a leap of faith. We found a way and I hope you can too. We are a better family despite the BPD challenges!

Stay strong, take care of yourself, arm yourself up with the skills you’re going to need. There’s a lot to learn, don’t get overwhelmed, one step at a time.

LP

I hope this wasn’t too long!

Hi Merlot

I hear you it feels like such a dilemma, wanting to put boundaries on the relationship and I definitely agree you should not compromise yourself and apologize for things that you are not sorry for and were not your fault!

I think though, its not necessarily either-or.  You can still reach out and express your unconditional love or whatever you honestly feel in your own way, whether or not it is accepted and whether or not your dd responds.  You can be true to yourself, and your wish to support her or have whatever kind of relationship you do want, and not worry about whether she is likely to respond.  That way she knows she is not abandoned, and you have no expectation of response, you are just expressing yourself.

Like lypop says, the learning process in itself is valuable, all the reading you're doing will help in the long run.  As to your granddaughter tho I don't have any experience with that, I'm so sorry for the intense pain and worry you must feel about her.  How old is your granddaughter? Is she just one?   I would send her things every so often and maybe keep a log of what you send, and maybe write short notes for her in the log.  Then when you finally are able to reach her show it to her if she has not receive any of the things.  It might be important to your granddaughter to know you wanted to reach her and had her in mind all along. 

Best of luck in your journey, you are honestly trying and that can only be a positive thing in the long run.  Take care of yourself too! 

Thanks Lollypop, I take lots of encouragement from your post, particularly taking a leap of faith... .and hope maybe at some point I can get there... .a point of bridging the gap I suppose.

Your query about her not taking responsibility, is mainly in relation to the fact that she cuts us off over her negative perception of our actions towards her, without ever owning her own actions/reactions... .and that somehow we deserve to be cut off.  Consequently, out trust has been broken, but clearly that is our fault.  IIt seems whenever I hold her account for her behavior, like the many times she put on an AVO to the baby daddy and kept taking it off telling me "why is my life so difficult".  I told her "because you make it that way"... .I always see that dark horrible look come over her.  Probably not the most validating statements... .If she can never accept her part in this, is ongoing validation the baseline of our communication and relationship with her? 

In terms of abandonment, I have always chased her so I've never really had the opportunity for her to show the flip side, although during the first few months after the baby was born, she did always tell me she loved me and VcV.

Thank you Indacove, it really is as though you and Lollypop are speaking the same language  :). I think your ideas relating to my GD are great and I will definitely implement that straight away.  HOpe you are both doing well too.

Hi Merlot - just a quick note, I wanted to reply specifically to what you are saying here


So, my take on this, is that yes validation of another person's emotions or experience is always important esp in a BPD relationship - she really is having that emotion, its real to her, and recognizing it is like pressure-reducing.

That said, it doesn't mean you are validating her point of view.  You also have thoughts and feelings and while I don't think you should share the judgmental ones that might label her or make her directly ashamed, I think its healthy to open and share your own feelings of frustration, sadness, pain and worry about her.  Probably try to get past the anger and dig underneath it to find something caring and true to express, because the truth is often that you feel and think many things, so picking out one true one that also expresses your caring for her is maybe the best one to choose.

Truth is always important.  It doesn't help anyone to pretend an emotion you don't have, but if you find the most useful truth... .maybe that can help you be a bit closer.

Best!   Let me know how it goes!

Thank you Incadove

It's true that without having had a full understanding of BPD, many of my comments to her may not have bode well for either of us.  I can see exactly where you are coming from and understand that I can validate her emotions without validating her approach.

Definitely need to practice these skills, although there is still no contact... .but there is much hope.

Thanks again for all your input, it really does help to shape my thinking moving forward. 

Hi Merlot!

Hope is good!  When you say no contact, how long has it been since you have been able to contact her or your GD?  :)o you get information about them indirectly?

Do you know if she receives messages or emails that you send?  I have not had a significant no contact period but I have had several painful spells of very low or delayed contact.    :)o you want to try to reestablish a low level of contact, or do you want to wait it out?   Do you think it would help you and her feel better if you sent something periodically, either a message or small gift, without expecting a particular reply?   And if she needs more significant support from you in the future, maybe have in mind what you hope she would agree to in terms of maintaining contact with your GD on a regular basis.

Ah, sorry for all the questions!  No need to answer unless you feel so moved.  But thinking about what to say that might be useful I realized maybe it depends on these things.  

Hope for the best for you and dd and gd!  I admire your efforts in learning and figuring out what to do next - that's all any of us can do!

  

hi Incadove

I wrote some the of below wording last night on the following thread of Whototurnto:

I can relate to some degree as my DD27 has cut me and my GD1 out of her life some three/four weeks ago (for the 2nd time in two months) following 12 months of doing nothing but helping her adjust to motherhood after a broken relationship during pregnancy (the two words - calm down - when in full blown rage triggered it). She has gone to live with her father in our original home state and I know he will "validate the invalid" while she is there.  I'm not willing to engage with her, even just to let her know I love her as I know she is still angry and hurt, and collectively I fear I will be ripped to shreds, and I'm not ready for another kick to the stomach.  I don't feel ready to validate anything while I feel stripped so bare... .I need to recover first and place myself in a position of least exposure and damage.

I still feel this way today, although conscious that the longer time goes on, the more difficult estrangement can be.  She did ask my other daughter to ask me if I could send my GD's pool float toy over.  I was thinking that I could send it with a message and say something simple like:  "I miss you and GD".  It's as much as I can do at the moment, I fear that anything more may not be authentic; as I'm reading on this site, authenticity is everything.  I need to get past the anger and hurt and feel stronger before I'm ready to really feel her pain.  I hope that doesn't sound too selfish?

It's so hard... .I feel so conflicted about so many things, lately I feel as terrified of not having a relationship with her as I do of having one with her.  Do others feel the same?

I'm striving to move forward, I have an appointment with the psychologist next week to help me work through some of my feelings and my thinking.

Thank you again and I'm glad you are in touch with your child :-)

 

Hi there’s Merlot


Absolutely!

I remember me thinking “I can’t cope not knowing if he’s dead or alive”. This was pre-dx. It also says a lot about my own state of mind. He was perfectly safe and there were no dramas, just a low level monotony stoned living.

I really admire the way your approaching your own situation, particularly your own self care.

I bought a blank card with a nice photo and sent it to my DS. I wrote something like “I hope you’re well and happy. It’d be great to meet up for breakfast sometime as it’s be good to know you’re ok. I wanted you to know that I’ve sought help for myself and hope you do too. Love mum x”

My son had a drug problem, lost his job and his living arrangements were failing.  our relationship was at an all time low. I can see with hindsight it was a bit of a manipulative ploy on my part to “fix”. He called, he was very curious about what I was doing. It proved to be a key moment for myself and seeking support.

I thought long and hard about the wording. I knew i had to at least try to make him not bristle any further. Perhaps mine looks needy?  I’m glad I put in something about myself and it gave him hope that things were changing. He called, I was light as a fairy without expectations of meeting up.

You’re completely right about being authentic. “I think about you both and hope you’re well and happy.”  It’s tricky to write so few words and there still be warmth, no implication or expectation in there. What do you think of this?  I ask honestly because what I see as being ok maybe not be to others. One small word can completely alter a sentence.

This is a small step in opening up a potential line of communication. Incadove makes sound points and asks good questions!

You’re doing brilliantly Merlot. This self reflecting is hard to do and I’m so very glad you’ve got an appointment next week to help you work through these complex thoughts and emotions.

I’d love  to know what you decide on doing with the toy and note.

Hugs

LP

Thank you Lollypop

A visit to the psychologist was helpful today in validating many of the points raised by yourself and Incadove, in particular the odd gift/note... .thank you both again.

The gold nugget in the consultation for me today was in regard to the anticipation of reconnecting with my DD and what I would say.  The psychologist also agreed that a dot point script would be really useful, however as I cannot anticipate how the conversation might go, considering a way to sign off at the appropriate moment.  This would allow me the opportunity to think through her wants/needs and consider my respective limitations and boundaries, before resuming the conversation with her.

I also really felt the internal struggle of letting go of the daughter and relationship that I wanted and thought I would have. It's very hard and painful.  It's about being able to accept a new and different relationship.

Can I ask Lollypop, how long you were estranged with your son before you sent the photo? 

The good news is that she has had a soft place to land in our home state and is readily engaging with the family on both sides (which apart from her father) they are healthy individuals who will always love her and my GD1.  The greater the stability the better :-)

Hi merlot

  sounds like a very productive day!  That practical support will be invaluable.

My relationship was awful - particularly from 19 to 22 years old. In that time he lived away a few times. From memory 1 year where we saw very little of each other - maybe 2-3 times and even then the visits were extremely short - perhaps 30 minutes. Off and on no contact on either side between a call or text. It was always me contacting him and then one day I visited and he ended up shouting and slamming the door in my face.

It took me a long while to calm down, going through a range of emotions - deep grief. I look back and wonder how I endured. I just couldn’t give up on us but totally understand that sometimes this isn’t possible. Some here have little choice but to go no contact for their own self preservation and own well-being.

Yes, you’re right. We can’t have the relationship we expected or hoped for. I find the relationship I do have with my son is a welcome surprise and I’ve only achieved it by focussing on the relationship and not his problems. I stopped telling him what to do and stopped giving him money.  My DS is now 27.

LP

Hi Merlot! 

Sorry I had a crazy busy weekend, just checking into the site now, sounds like you are making good progress centering yourself and deciding how you want to interact!
Yes - I totally feel this.  Honestly, I at one point had this huge feeling rise up in me that I needed to cut off at some level, and I sent an email with an ending that I don't normally send; and tho I actually immediately did damage control before she even received the email, it acted in some way to detach me inside, I don't know how to explain.  I don't recommend this!  I think I should have acted more compassionately, especially since my dd really didn't do anything that bad, I was just hurt because she was unresponsive to something that was very important to me.

But it made me sort of understand, that having emotional detachment in the sense that it doesn't hurt me now, that what happens is less personal, sometimes lets me focus on the fact that I want the best for her.  So I just don't feel any pain in the relationship right now, though I'm not as close, but I can just decide to offer support or love or whatever I want to offer, and that it is a positive.

So I don't know what your inner journey will be to get there, but I think maybe a goal is to understand that she is ill and not take her attacks personally, and just sort of from an emotional distance offer the positive things that you do want to offer.  Like wanting the best for her. 

I also use the Metta meditation a lot, its a buddhist meditation that focuses first on wanting joy and happiness for yourself, then for someone you're close to and feel warmly towards, then a neutral person, then finally for someone you're having difficulty with.  It really works!  I use it when I'm upset or find myself thinking negative thoughts.  I found it in a research paper about research-tested ways to avoid rage :-)


Not at all.  In fact I'm not sure you have to fully feel her pain, it might be too much for you.  I think you can always probably send a message "Hope you are doing well, thinking of you" or variations of that, that is probably authentic.  You do wish the best for her in spite of your anger and hurt, you want in the end for her to be happy and for her life to be going well, and for her relationships to be healthy and strong.  Its just you don't want to get hurt by her along the way, and you don't want to open yourself to something that hurts you, that is not selfish at all, that's normal and right. 

I think its part of normal human interaction, to sometimes be closer and sometimes more distant, depending on what has happened in the relationship.  The more we can have a healthy normal dynamic with our kids the better, I think.  I was just saying to my other dd who had an issue with my husband who she is generally very close to, that its really normal for people who deeply care about each other to sometimes be very angry and frustrated with each other!  So I guess normalizing our own reactions is ok too!

Hope you find a path that you feel good about, and best for you and your dd and gd!

 |iiii

Thanks you Lollypop and Incadove

Apologies for the delay in responding.  With much trepidation, I also feel like I can't give up on the relationship, and after such conflict I see that it's important to regather and allow the dust to settle before re-engaging.  I'm still have had no contact and irrespective of where she is at with her anger towards me, I'm not quite ready to send a message to her just yet, but I'm getting there.  I am getting beautiful photos of my GD1 from my younger daughter... .absolutely wonderful!

I am however, thinking about my script for if and when she makes contact. 

As Lollypop has mentioned, the pain is starting to ebb away and I feel like I can think more clearly and rationally. 

Incadove, you are so right when you say that I want to be able to let her know I care without being hurt... .that is a big fear for me.  Your know it's a funny thing, as mothers, so much of who we are is defined by our children, and when they hurt us/turn on us it can be utterly devastating.  Being able to accept that it's not as much about her hatred of me as it is about her having a mental health issue, really helps to take that personal sting away and allow me to retain my own personal integrity as a mother, and allows me to re-focus on wanting what is best for her. 

Thank you so much for investing your time and effort in providing guidance, it really has helped me through this very dark time. I'm glad to hear, Lollypop that you are in a good place with your son, I hope for you Incadove, that is the case too. :-)

Hi Merlot 

Being able to accept that it's not as much about her hatred of you as it is about her having a mental health issue is a step you are taking out of the drama that so often has us gripped in full focus and conflict bearing little time to see what the real issues are and ability to change our approach.

Take your good time Merlot to gather yourself at a pace that works for you   You are unwrapping a very complex puzzle, that's how I view it and it's tested the best of my skills and abilities and taught me new ones here, still learning with you!

I'm glad your youngest daughter is sending you photos of GD, has brought you joy, how thoughtful and kind of her, you are in her thoughts. I received some beautiful videos of the Cornish coastline this morning, deserted beaches, the sea basked in winter sunshine, sent by 29BPDD who is visiting her father. There is always hope Merlot our daughters can move forwards and so can we.

Do share with us your script when you get there, if you'd find that helpful?

WDX

Thank wendydarling, the news of your daughter brings joy; both for you and your daughter but for me in terms of hope and what is possible.

My youngest shared with me this week that my DD27 has told her that "I cant' believe mum hasn't contacted me - she doesn't love me".  This is the distorted reality of our BPDs.  We did so much; we love her so much but the last txt "we are dead to her", she somehow doesn't remember this; that dreaded pattern of behaviour where we are supposed to chase... .

Through self reflection, support; both through bpdfamily and others I've been able to work through the hurt and anger and today I sent a package to my DD27 and GD1 with a gift/card and very simple words to let them know that I am thinking of them and care.

There may be no response but proud of myself that I could do this without anger and nothing love in my heart; and sooner than I expected.  Thank you to everyone that helped me get there  :)

Hi merlot

It warms my heart to read your latest post. I hope you hear back soon with some positive result.

Sorry this is so short, I’m flying out the door!

 

LP

Aw Merlot 

This is great news. I’m glad you’ve come through, step of resolve for you, able to send the gifts. The dreaded pattern of behaviour can cause confusion conflict, anger, hurt and much more for some. Being able to step back, shine a light and understand, not to take it personally is a huge step forward.


You’ve summed up perfectly here Merlot, others will relate.

It’s good to hear your daughter’s talk openly to each other, how’s your youngest doing? Does she understand her sisters disorder?

The family is always here for you, they helped me through too.  |iiii

WDx

Hi Wendydarling

Thanks for your last post.  My youngest has been open to understanding about BPD, in particular as she is now living in the same state with her sister and she is also being confronted with the ongoing drama of her life.  She is treading very carefully but did let me know that her sister (my DD27) received the card and gift and was less than impressed that there was no apology; that dreaded pattern of behaviour that I no longer want to re-inforce.

Last week, I was sent to my home state for work and used the opportunity to send an email to my DD27.  I wasn't sure whether I was ready to re-engage with her as I know she is still angry, however if she knew I came back to our home state and hadn't contacted her, I'm sure it would have been adding insult to injury... .I am also desperately missing my GD1.

I used many of the validating techniques I have learned thus far (I know it wasn't perfect but I'm trying).  In my email, I went as far as to apologise for how being told to "calm down" must have really hurt her. 

She wrote back and unfortunately, my apology wasn't sincere enough and she was disgusted that it had taken me so long.  She didn't appreciate my card and gift as according to her they only sought to undermine her without a sincere apology.   Between our last few exchanges she is confusing me... .one minute I have no understanding of what she has been through with the baby daddy, and I have no empathy.  So I tell her in my last email that maybe she is right "I don't understand fully but I'd love to listen and try to put myself in her shoes"... .to which she then responds that she knows I understand and I've been taking the baby daddy's side all along and stabbing her in the back... .she affirmed to me that she has made the right decision to cut me out of her life... .it's so hard. 

I wrote back to her validating her anger and hurt, including her need for space and re-confirmed my boundaries in regards to violent rages, reacting while angry, and continuing to denigrate me.  I also used the opportunity to suggest some problem solving opportunities she could have taken rather than raging... .maybe it was too much, I don't know but in any case she hasn't responded and I'm hoping that's a good thing.

I do understand that changing patterns in order to not re-inforce bad behaviour is likely to escalate her emotions and I'm hoping for a breakthrough somewhere. 

I didn't get the outcome I hoped for but I will say that I am proud of loving her while sticking to my boundaries.

Hi Merlot

I'm sorry you did not get the outcome you hoped for and you are desperately missing your GD1, is hard.   I hope you continue to find some comfort in the skills you are learning and knowledge for the future. You did great in a very difficult situation. It's wonderful to hear you are proud of your efforts loving her while sticking to your boundaries, I'm proud of you  :), it's a great feeling isn't it when we can see we are personally making progress, changes, small steps. You've shown her you care, you did your best.

I can understand she's confusing you, saying 'you don't understand what she's been through' followed by 'you do understand', by way of closing down your offer to listen and connect with her. Stepping out of the drama we can see more clearly patterns of behaviour.

The positive is she engaged with you and letting her know when you are visiting family provides her future opportunity to engage. How often do you visit, do you have any trips planned?

It's great your youngest is open to understanding BPD will help her in the future and give you piece of mind.

There have been many conversations recently about values, boundaries. I've not read this though Wentworth recommended in another thread "Boundaries," by Cloud and Townsend (he says the book is heavy on Bible references, but you can mentally filter them out if that suits you). 

WDx

Thanks wendydarling

Unfortunately, nothing changed between visiting my home state and my return.  It was difficult to be there and not see them.  She has asked my youngest daughter not to send photos of my GD1 to me either... .very distressing.

While I am learning so much from being engaged with the forum and other reading (it helps so much) sometimes I am struggling to come to terms with the reality.  It really all feels so pointless.

It's like I'm in denial; as though I can just pick up the phone and talk to her and then I remember I am blocked.  Acceptance is so difficult and then I worry about re-connecting only to think I could be cut off again.  It's an emotional mind field.  I think a tug of war of the emotions has been aptly described elsewhere on the board.

Thank you for all being there.

Merlot

Easter is coming up and I have left a gift for them both in my home state.  I will be visiting there next month... .despite my mixed emotions, I think I will try to connect again.

Hi Merlot,

 I admire the efforts you are making to connect with your daughter. What a difficult situation; in your shoes, I’m sure I’d be struggling between feelings of despair and hope. 


This was my thinking, too, when I read your latest account of contacting your daughter while in your home state. I think the change in your approach and behavior, even when supportive, could be throwing her off balance, as she’s used to a certain pattern of interacting with you. Do you think that could be a factor?



I think you have every reason to feel proud, Merlot. This kind of change can be incredibly challenging, with forward movement, backslides, side roads, and unexpected reactions. The work you are doing is very worth the effort, in my view. In addition, so many people benefit from your triumphs and learning.

Stay the course. We are with you. 

heartandwhole

Hi heartandwhole

Thank you for your support.  I do agree, this is unchartered territory for her as cutting people off has always ellicted a response of people begging her forgiveness.
I am hearing from others on the board that this is a similiar story.

I am determined to be patient for a while to allow her to consider this change.  At the moment it just seems to justify her position - the dance of anger.  However I must say this, like Lollypop, everything I did in the past never changed the patterns so I have to try something different.  All I can do is review as I go along.

It is such a difficult journey but I'm trying.

Merlot

Hi Merlot


Yes - I think you've hit the nail on the head.  Once she figures out that she cannot manipulate you either into begging for forgiveness or into anger, I hope that her manipulations will decrease.

The power to be loving and caring because _you_ want to, on your terms, and not because she is guilting you into it, is a strong force for good.  I hope that after she deals with the rest of the world for a while and realizes that you are really among the most constant pillars in her life, that she may come back to you on different terms.

Stay strong!

  |iiii

Thankyou Incadove

You dont know how much I needed to hear that.

I hope you have a wonderful Easter 

Merlot

incadove, thank you, you are so wise and caring, it is a strong force for good and a loving way Merlot WDx

Thanks all

It's been a while since I have updated, like others here I'm still sorting through the range of emotions that come with dealing with a BPD child and dealing with one's own journey of grief.   They seem so disconnected to me.  As an example, trying to validate her while I'm still so angry with what she has done, even when I can rationalise that this is an illness.

I was sent back to my home state again in early April and tried to reach out again with no success.  It's been three months of no contact (only a few disrespectful emails). I'm trying to work out what I'm hoping to achieve through reconciliation.

As honest as I can be (during this phase of my grief) is that I want reconciliation for all the wrong reasons:

to put and end to my pain
to put and end to the public humiliation, exposure and embarrasment
to end the exhaustion and questioning of why
to put a bandaid on the wound for my youngest daughter's wedding
to check out of BPD for a while

The right reasons would be because I love her and my granddaughter, and I miss her. End of story.  Unfortunately, the truth is that she has always come with so much drama and destruction and I don't know if I'm ready to deal with it again.  I miss my granddaughter but I honestly don't know if I miss my daughter.  I don't trust her and I'm also so scared that I haven't mastered the skills that I need to mitigate being cut off and I don't know if I can go through it again.  My grief is keeping me more focussed on me. I feel ashamed to say this but it is the the truth and I hope I can get to a better place. 

After more reading, I realise that I have been caught up in the drama triangle for too long, moving between rescuer (when she was the victim) and being the victim (since she has become the perpetrator).  Now that she has moved back to our hometown, my mother and youngest have become the rescuers, while I have remained the victim. 

It's time for me to REALLY step out of the drama and focus on moving through my grief so that I can stop being the victim and get to a more peaceful place for if and when my daughter re-engages. 

My next post will be about my youngest daughter's wedding in about 4 months.  It's hanging over my head like a dark cloud.

It's hard not to sound so confused and conflicted.  Thank you for listening

Merlot   

Hi Merlot,

I am with you on this, I am on a similar journey, probably a few steps ahead of you in my healing process and working towards a better and happier life for me. A life that I deserve and you deserve it too.

I worked out that I was probably seeking reconciliation with my uBPD son for all the wrong reasons too. I wanted back what was my idea of happy families. For me, not thinking about what he might want. I too have been working on myself, reading posts and learning as much I could in the hope of one day when I feel that the time is right I could reach out to my son, let him know how I’ve changed and what a much better person I have become. I never considered the fact that although I might feel ready to try and re-engage, he might not be ready. That was pointed out to me by my counsellor, it’s another reality check.

I too love and miss my son and I miss the close relationship that we once shared, however despite my early desperation to reconnect with him, I have come to realise that a reconnection will also be dependent on my terms. I don’t want to have to go through the same ordeal that I am still trying to recover from again.

I don’t know if you do this, I sometimes play out scenarios in my head. One is that I contact my son, let him know and see how I’ve changed. That I realise how I invalidated his feelings in the past and everything will be different now. He accepts this and we finally reconcile and work together on building a new and healthier relationship.

My other scenario is somewhat darker, this one involves him coming to me in the event that I fall seriously ill or something similar and I tell him that I want nothing to do with him, that it’s too late, he should have come to me before I fell ill and not because he has any feelings of guilt or out of duty.
That one scares me a little bit as I would like to think that I would be forgiving and be able to accept him back in my life.

I think that on the whole these two scenarios probably show that I might still have some conflicting thoughts that I have yet to deal with.

I wish you well Merlot x 

Hi Feeling Better

Thank you for listening and caring.

I can't say that my eldest and I have had a close relationship but there have definitely been moments and she does have her positives, maybe my early views of her being difficult and challenging (like her father) have shaped my own perception and behaviours towards her, and possibly compromised that closeness. 

Through my actions, maybe she felt she wasn't good enough... .I don't know. All I know is that I thought I was a good mother and being cut off really makes you question where you went wrong, the crazy thing is that her feeling of rejection/abandonment has led to her rejection of me.  I may never get the answers. Does any of this make sense?

I did put some thought into how I would respond if we re-engaged and I sent a few validating emails to which I received disrespectful replies and that she wants no further contact.  So I have stopped thinking about that and am trying to work through the fog of grief, which at the moment is full of anger.  I seem to lick at the heels of acceptance only to be dragged back to a dark place, and I'm definitely having some related dreams, always involving my granddaughter.  I'm also working on reconnecting on my terms.

I guess the one positive is that I do engage in things to keep me moving forward.  Coming here has been pivotal, but I also keep the routine and take time to exercise and stay connected with friends and family.

I hope you are travelling well  :)

Merlot

Merlot, I’m sure you were/are a good mother, don’t doubt it for one second. You are so right though, being cut off does fill you with self doubt, I remember well, feeling such a failure as a mother, the truth is though, if we don’t know any better we can’t do any better. We weren’t to know what the future had in store for us when we were doing the very best that we could to raise happy healthy children. All we can do is learn, learn, learn, and that is precisely what we are doing.

I think, like you, that it is a grief process that we are going through. I have days when I feel that I am doing alright and then something may happen (or not) and I am thrown back into that deep dark pit again. Overall though I know that I am making steady progress, my life will never be the same again but I am learning to deal with it and accept it. You will too. 

Thanks for your support FeelingBetter :)

I can really relate to what you are saying, and it all makes sense :)  I think I am making steady progress but some days are definitely better than others.  Today has been a good day, my youngest sent through pictures/video of my granddaughter and I'm very thankful for that.

Hope you had a good day too 

Merlot

While my journey of recovery has been progressing, I still remain NC with my BPD daughter.  A few weeks ago, I went back to my home state for work.  I had planned not to reach out to my daughter as I knew she needed space and like Feeling Better, not wanting to go through another ordeal that I'm also still recovering from.

There has been one complicating factor; my youngest daughter is getting married in the next few months.  My BPD daughter is the maid of honour.  It would be fair to say that I have wanted to attempt reconciliation for the both of us, but very importantly to mitigate any angst/issues for my younger daughter on her wedding day as she deserves so much.  My mother and youngest daughter have also being trying to "fix" things in there own way, and in some ways have thought that reconciliation would only be possible if I were to "fix" it.

While in my home state; my BPD daughter told my youngest "I can't believe Mum hasn't contacted me".  That, and the wedding, I did decide to reach out again with more validation than before.  She didn't knee jerk react with a response this time.  She left it a few days, obviously thought about it and came back with a horribly malicious email which contained threats, projecting, lying, shaming, blaming, emotional blackmail and abuse, false accusations, baiting, the list goes on... .

I have come a long way in being able to see it for what it is and while it still stung, I found myself feeling more sad and distressed for her.

I guess a positive that came from this, was that my mother and daughter now realise that I can't "fix"this and that I cannot continue to expose myself to such abusive behaviour. 

I have pulled right away, if I don't play the victim then her tirades have no power.  Although my youngest is very sad, I will take a step back in helping her to get ready on her wedding day and we'll reserve some special time together.

I am on the road to recovery, I have met wonderful people here, have taken the time to learn (and I'm still learning). 

I still remain hopeful that one day we may reconnect and I hope that I have helped others here too in sharing my journey form initial shock to ongoing healing and recovery.

Merlot

Hi Merlot,

I can’t tell you how sorry I am to read your latest update, it must have been awful to receive such a vitriolic email from your daughter. It sent shockwaves through me as I read it as it reminded me of a time a few years ago when my son and I were exchanging emails and the emails that he sent me were full of hate and blame and at that time I had no idea why he was writing such awful things.

 
I can relate to this so much, yes, we know not to take things personally but no way does knowing it stop it from hurting, and the worst part, for me too is feeling the overwhelming sadness for them that they can’t handle the fact that we love and care about them and they just end up pushing us further away.

Merlot, I am so sorry to hear about the situation with your youngest daughters upcoming wedding, you must be filled with all sorts of mixed emotions, I know that I would be. I hope that you are able to find the inner strength that you will need to get you through it.

I am glad that you have managed to get your mother and daughter ‘on board’ regarding their desire for you to fix everything, that is massive, as the last thing you need right now is to be caught in a drama triangle, I have had enough experience with that myself with my mother ‘rescuing’ my son and her trying very ineptly to ‘fix’ things. My heart first sank when I read in your post that they had been trying to ‘fix’ it in their own way, but thankfully you managed to get a positive outcome there.

Also, I want to thank you for giving such a strong and powerful statement:
 “If I don’t play the victim then her tirades have no power”

Amazing 

Thanks Feeling Better

It makes it so much easier knowing Im sharing with those who understand. 

Hi Merlot

I'm am so sad to hear you reaching out received such a tirade of abuse, it must be awful and as you say distressing and sad for you that your daughter is in so much pain, really struggling. She said on both occasions she can't believe you've not contacted her and when you do she dysregulates.
“If I don’t play the victim then her tirades have no power” ~ exactly, and as we learn here JADE does not work.

Like Feeling Better I too am relieved to hear your Mother and youngest understand you can not 'fix it', you've done brilliantly sharing your learning as we all know how hard to explain to others and grasp the complexity of BPD, and that we can't mend them.

Oh Merlot my heart goes out to you and your youngest   to be apart on her wedding morning is sad, I'm actually welling up as I type this. You give your youngest the greatest gift, your love   and care to set aside some reserved time for you and her to share the happiness you both deserve. I'm sure that memory of her time with you at this special time with be with her forever.

Merlot, thank you for sharing your journey with us and you too Feeling Better  ~ I personally am learning so much from you and your situations how you  cope and manage your way through with NC and how you help your families is truly inspiring.

Merlot you shall be in our thoughts on the wedding day, we'll be right there with you  

I've been wondering how your BPDdaughter is coping day to day as you've shared you and your H provided a lot of support to help her get back on her feet.

WDx

Thank you for such lovely thoughts Wendydarling

For the moment, I'm all focused on a beautiful day for my youngest and I know it will be exactly that.

Yes, my husband and I gave (rescured) my BPD daughter so much.  When she went back to our home state, she moved in with her father (whom I've long suspected also suffers from some un-diagnosed form of mental illness). Living through this period of time with my BPD daughter, and in watching her grow up, it's strange how much alike they both are. 

So yes, she is doing fine at the moment, and I'm very grateful for the loving people she has around her and my granddaughter, they only want the best for her and she will need them.  I'm also very glad that my youngest now has the benefit of understanding about BPD as it will help her in her interactions with her sister.  I have encouraged her to come here and visit the sibling board.

Merlot

Hi Merlot,
I’ve read your feed - what an incredible journey you’ve been on! The depth of your understanding, your insights and setting limits is all
Inspiring. Thank you for sharing your story. There’s so much many of us can relate to.

As for your daughter’s wedding, my heart breaks for you. It’s not the kind of situation we, Mother’s dream of having on our daughter’s Wedding days. I’m sorry you have such a complicated work around for your daughter’s special day.

As for your DD, it makes complete sense for her horrid response.
It’s her sister’s wedding and she may feel she needs to make some of that special day all about her.

The kicker is, DD no longer has Grandma nor sister holding you accountable because they’ve now come to realize this problem is just too big for you to fix. I wonder how much of a wrench that’ll throw in for DD.

What I most appreciate anda in awe of is the balance you are creating!
You continue to set limits with DD and yet understand that you can still
Have some special time on the side with your daughter on her wedding day.
You are a loving mother who takes care of your daughters’ needs as well as your own. Amazing, beautiful and I am
So glad you have shared your journey with us.

Hi Merlot
Following your journey makes me feel so many emotions... .sad, angry, hopeless, hopeful... .how we survive - I don't know.  My 30 year old daughter has chosen to NC me and her brother and has been missing from our lives for the better part of two years.  You asked me once, what caused the estrangement?  Who knows?  We are not aware of an incident or argument that provoked it.   We spent a year and a half having absolutely no idea what was going on or what we could possibly have done to deserve her abusive treatment.
I have spent most of the previous two years cycling between anger, grief, despair and worry.    On many occasions I felt that I was losing touch with reality and I still do at times.   I had never even heard of BPD until January of this year.  :)D mentioned DBT in a counseling session about a year ago, I remembered it and finally looked it up.   I don't know if she was diagnosed or if she was even informed that her counselor thought that she may have BPD traits.   My guess is that the answer to both of those questions is 'No."  Unfortunately, she has since started seeing another counselor and no longer receiving DBT which makes me very sad for all of us.    She told me she doesn't really need DBT because "it is mostly for addicts you know."  (It is not used to treat addiction).  You also asked me if I thought she would come back.  Again who knows?  I have seen her for a couple of brief dinners but I don't think she has any plans to reconcile.  It seems to me that in each encounter, she is looking for me to say something that she can negatively twist and turn.  If she can't she'll just make something up.   I feel worse after seeing her the last couple of times.   I will never give up on her but my dreams of a life with her in it are dying.  I doubt that I will have contact with future grandchildren - another dream shattered... .I love her so very much but I don't think that the person I loved and nurtured is still there.  I like to think she is still in there somewhere but BPD has stolen her from us.  She seems to have no memory of her wonderful life - and she did have a great life.   How do we exist without our memories?   I would do anything to help her if I could.  While this is devastating for her brother and me, I worry for her because there are no other people on earth who love her as we do.   She doesn't know that and probably never will.  I know the pain will never stop but I am learning to live with it each day.   She is getting married in July and no one in her family will be there.   She did not invite any of us.  I have no idea how to get through the wedding period emotionally intact, but I am trying to take care of myself as best I can.   I know how badly you are hurting and I wish there was something I could say to make you feel better... .I wish there was something ANYONE could say to make us BOTH feel better.  I have found a book that is making a big difference for me in handling my stress, grief, anger, despair and insomnia.   Let me know if you are interested and I'll give you the information.    We are strong, loving mothers who are doing the best we can in what often feels to me like a crazy game of "opposite world."  I am thankful that I found this site - without it, I don't think I would be doing well at all.  Take care - pm me anytime.  Scout206

Hi Daisy123


Thank you so much for saying this.   It was very difficult to surrender a very special opportunity with my youngest, in particular as I may never attend a wedding of my DD.  But even with some resentment, it is not about me as much as it is about my youngest, and some time together... .maybe even breakfast will be absolutely wonderful and a very treasured compromise.  

She has asked me to give a speech, which i have started writing, I'm not sure I will be able to deliver it without becoming emotional... .moreover, I hope it doesn't trigger an event in my BPD... .something that is playing on my mind.


Hi Scout206
I can so relate to this and it's incredibly painful.  I have so many wonderful memories of my daughter but BPD has brought out the Mr Hyde that seems to overshadow and overwhelm the beautiful, talented and funny girl she can be.  Amazing that she is like this to those people most intimately involved with her who challenge her.  As my mother said, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth and strangers would be unable to reconcile the dark side of her personality.

Your daughter is still there; albeit now an adult with ongoing childlike behaviour that manifests in devastating ways.  They are unfortunately the best version of themselves but not the grownups we expected them to be and I think our grief lies there.

I would love to know which book you are reading.

We are in this together and it really means so much to share this with you.

Look forward to speaking with you soon.

Merlot

Hi Merlot,

So very much in common with you with my own 23 yr old daughter... .Mine too is very physically beautiful and it attracts many potential suitors. 

She just broke off with her long term boyfriend from high school.  He was in many ways a good kid/young man but over the past nine years she has driven him to the brink (nasty fights with him & his parents, jumping out of his car while he was driving, introducing him to drugs, police involvement & eventually physical violence).  He would still be standing by her but she met someone new.

Her new (in the past 3 weeks) love interest is a slightly older fellow whom I have met once - he came to the hospital after she wrecked her car driving home from his house.  He seems like a nice man who has his life together, he just graduated law school & is studying for his bar exam.  They are spending a lot of time together & I am worried already about when he will turn from knight in shining armor to pure evil in her eyes.

Thankfully she has avoided having any children but I can only begin to imagine your pain with a grandchild involved.

Oh and the dog walking!  My daughter acquired a pit bull puppy several years back... .the poor thing would be caged in a crate all the time if I didn’t walk her.

Anyhow, best to you and hang in there!

DoneMom

Hi Donemom

Thank you for posting, and apologies for the delay in responding.  Yes, I feel like the physical attraction is not something that is advantageous to her; quite the opposite. Sadly we all seem to share similarities in the way our children behave and also in our reactions as parents.  I'm so glad we can talk here and learn from one another so that we can somehow navigate our way through by taking care of ourselves while still loving our children.  It's a challenge but I know we're all up for it.

Thank you for thinking of me and I hope we can share more on the board as we go through this together.

Merlot

Thanks Merlot,

I really do feel like yours and mine may have been cut from the same mold.  The physical good looks get in the way by making things easier in some ways and harder in others.  I don’t think the police would have pitched so hard for her to go undercover in her current legal drama if she weren’t so attractive - “ You’re a pretty girl, it is easier than you think, guys will WANT to buy you drugs”.  And sadly it was true, she feels vindicated. 

I look forward to continued dialogue and sharing as well, Merlot.  This place has been a true blessing and real help to me - and your thoughtful responses to my posts have been a big part of that!

DMom

To all of you who have posted and followed my journey since earlier this year, I just wanted to provide the last update to this post.

So, with a heart full of excitement and trepidation, I traveled across the other side of the country to attend my youngest daughter's wedding. I availed myself to my youngest daughter in the days leading up to the wedding as much as possible, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to have been involved.  On the morning of the wedding she was getting ready with the bridesmaids (my DD and GD included).  In order to mitigate against any emotional triggers for my DD if I had turned up there to help, we had agreed that we would do breakfast instead. 

As it turned out, the hairdresser was arriving early; breakfast had to be parked.  My youngest said to me:  "mum, you didn't cause this, I didn't cause this... .it's my wedding day and I want you here with me for a while and DD will just have to deal with it".  I said "of course"... .and with that I arrived at the accommodation where they were getting ready.  I walked into the room where my DD and GD were.  After not having seen or spoken to them since January, all I wanted to do was to reach out and hug them both; it was so surreal.  Intuitively, my DD knew I was there and turned her back.  So no acknowledgement, just a cold shoulder and I walked past them both straight to the bathroom where my youngest was getting ready.  With my heart thumping with pain and hurt, I did what every mother does "shelved my emotions", hugged my daughter and told her how beautiful she looked on her wedding day.  We exchanged loving conversation and pleasantries with the other bridesmaids (my niece and youngest's best friend).  While all the "right" things were said and done, it would be fair to say that no-one was exempt from the elephant in the room.  It was a strange kind of awkwardness for which there are no words.

My youngest gave me and my husband cards and gifts, which we perused over coffee; both my husband and I shed a tear for the tremendous love and depth of relationship we share with her.

So, my beautiful girl walked down the aisle to a wonderful young man that we adore and couldn't have been prouder and happier for them both.  It truly was a special moment; a moment of happiness that all parents dream of.

The wedding was like any other (but truly unique), families and friends chatting and mingling, but there was much pain and sorrow still there under the surface; both past and present.  I had my brave, happy face on and for the most part, I really was ok and chatted the night away as you do.  However, moments when I stole a look at my DD, I also caught her looking at me only to turn away on realization. At one point, she was nowhere to be seen and my GD was being entertained by my ex-sister in law.  I went over and we each held GDs hand and walked with her round the venue.  Sadly, she has no recognition of me and that single experience just broke my heart.  That's all I can say about that atm... .

Her father gave the first speech, Wow !  I was so ashamed and embarrassed for my youngest and her husband.  His first words were "Hi, I'm the father of the groom".  Ooops! - was he trying to be funny, nervous, made a mistake - I just don't know.  Anyway, the entire speech was about him, every sentence started with "I", and what a good father he had been and if not for him, his youngest daughter would not be who she is and where she is today.  He did not mention the grooms parents and did not toast the bride and groom.  I was shocked but in hindsight not surprised. 

All of the other speeches hit the high notes that one would expect and I was grateful to be able to be part of this.

In the aftermath of the wedding and catching up with family, I finally had time to reflect and to begin to process the events.  How does one even begin to reconcile one of the happiest and saddest days of ones life.  I have no answers, just that I cried until I couldn't and then told myself that tomorrow is a new day and I need to continue to move forwards, as after all I have much to celebrate.

And so dear friends, here I am again pouring my heart out to all of you who I don't really know, but who understand in ways that people close to me can't.

I hope that my journey has helped some of you and I will continue to learn from all of you here in the hope that my DD and I can reconnect in a meaningful way - BPD and all   

Merlot

Oh Merlot I have been wondering how you are, you have been in my thoughts so much. I was hoping that this wedding would finally bring you and your daughter back together 

I recently reached out to my son and got nothing back from him, as was expected, but still really painful. I get every single word that you have written and you have written it so very eloquently.

You ask “How does one even begin to reconcile one of the happiest and saddest days of one’s life?” You will, it will take time but you will get there. The only thing that I can compare this to that has happened in my life is this: No one from my family at all attended the christening of my first daughter, my parents’ first grandchild. They never came and I was heartbroken on that day, a day that should have been filled with such happiness. And the reason they didn’t come? They didn’t like our choice of godparents! How cruel life can be at times, I feel your pain.

We are with you Merlot, take really good care of yourself x 

Thanks for your kind words FB

We have been travelling this journey together and we have so many similiarities in our circumstances and I'm glad we can be here for each other, and many others.  There certainly have been some challenges for you too and whether there are formal diagnoses or not, the issues/behavioural traits seem to run in families.  i'm sorry none came to the christening, that must devastating for you

Just before the wedding, I had an opportunity to speak to my ex-husband's mother.  We had always been close, but in the aftermath of my divorce to her son, he forbid her to talk to me, so we used to talk secretly in the best interests of the children but it waned over the years, as the girls got older.  I think we have travelled a similar universe - one generation apart.  She with a husband and a son (the one I married) who show BPD/narcissistic traits, and, me who used to be married to her son and now have a diagnosed daughter.  She is also very worried about my DD and we have agreed to get together at the next available opportunity when I am in my home state to debrief and consider how best to support her, even though I am still NC.

I'm not sure what I am hoping to achieve, just that I know this conversation feels right for me and probably long overdue.

Thanks again for being here for me.

Merlot

Hello Merlot,
First of all, you write beautifully-I felt as if I were there.

Secondly, your youngest daughter is pretty amazing. I was struck with how well she handled the underlying termoil on her wedding day (father’s speech, DD’s cold shoulder ect). She has some major problem solving skills and limit setting skills. Your youngest took some big risks to make sure you were a big part in her day.

How heartbreaking it was to hear that GD didn’t recognize you. Perhaps the incredibly respectful way you went about this big day will open up some healing space for DD and you. You kept your distance and set your needs aside so that the day could run as smoothly as it did.

It’s wonderful that you were able to connect to your former MIL. Is she in touch with DD?

Lastly, just wanted to say how sorry I am that this beautiful wedding came with such mixed emotions.

Daisy123

Hi Daisy123

Thank you for your post and care, your sentiments about my youngest are very reflective of her; she's a beautiful soul.  My former MIL mentioned to me that it is like she is the older/wiser sister.

My GD, it's been one of the things that I've found most difficult to talk about, as it has left such a hole in my heart.  My husband's sons were very kind to take photos for me and I have some beautiful ones of her.  I hope you're right that my DD will come around, but in my heart I don't feel it at the moment.

My MIL is in touch with my DD, she lives in my home state where my girls are.  She confided to me some of her concerns about my DD.  I will be back in my home state in sometime this month and I look forward to sitting down with her for a long overdue chat.

I hope you are well Daisy123 

Merlot

Hi Merlot  

I'm delighted to hear the wedding went well for your youngest and your now son in law, their happiness shone through on their day   . I feel your love for your family and with your grace, I hope you've come away with some confidence and hope things can change.

My daughter while not NC, has gained from family and friends understanding, consistency and I know how important it is to you to have family around for your DD, so to reconnect with your MIL I hope brings support to you, her, both your girls and the family.

There were painful moments for you, and with your GD, I hope the joyful memories overall keep you going Merlot!

WDx  

Thank you WD.

Yes my DD is very loved by the family despite the challenges and this is a good thing.

And importantly, I know hey want the best for both if us.

Im struck by WW words to FB about staying connected even if its just through periodic messaging to let hrr lnow I still care. I will reach out again soon.

Thankyou for always being there for me.

Merlot

Hi Merlot

Let me first say how pleased I am to hear that you have connected with your exMIL and that you intend to get together when you are next able to.


I’m so glad that you read this in my thread Merlot, it seems as though it has helped you as much as it helped me. Prior to this I had been contemplating just giving up and walking away, but WW has given me new hope. So, nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.

Out of interest, can I ask you, as I was asked, what do you consider for you to be the best frequency for reaching out?

Walking with you x 

Hi Feeling Better

Yes, it's given me some hope too.


I'm really not sure, I think it will be intuitive more than anything else.  I think this time, like you it will be a card/note.  I did buy a beautiful little dress with butterflies on it for my GD while on holidays (both my girls loved their butterfly dresses when they were little).  I've held off sending it... .I think it's because I'm still stuck in a little fear about the reaction but I'm working on de-personalising.

I will be in my home state in two weeks and looking forward to catching up with my ex -MIL.  My youngest sent through pictures of the wedding album, just so beautiful, including those of my DD and GD.

Thanks for asking FB. What about you, what do you think?

Merlot

Hi Merlot,

The butterfly dress sounds beautiful and I do get how you feel about sending it, I always say go with your gut.

Wentworth gave good advice to me when he said:
I really like the “let him own his own reactions” bit, but that is me, you may feel differently. I believe in trying to be true to myself, to do what feels right for me, to do whatever I can happily live with and for me I think that means to keep trying because I need to know that I did my best. For me, no one else, just me.

I am thinking of maybe contacting my son end of September/beginning of October and then again at Christmas, spacing it out roughly every 2-3 months. I was an emotional wreck when I was contacting him before, I was emailing him every week because I was so fearful of him cutting me out. I look back and I see now how desperate I was at that time. Knowing what to write though is another thing but at least I have time to work on it. I am in a different place now emotionally so I won’t be coming over to him as desperate and needy. When I first came here I never thought that I would ever be able to email my son without expecting a reply.

You know your daughter Merlot, go with what feels right for you, we are here to support you along the way x  

Hi FB

Thank you again 

Wentworth gives you sound advice

My DD27 had packed a box of my GDs clothes and left them with us (when we were in her favour) last year.  She left to our home state without them and my youngest now tells me she wants them back.

I thought it may be her way of trying to reach out (we only see what we want to see).  I suggested I bring most of them in my suitcase with me when I go back to my home state week after next.  Unfortunately, that suggestion was met with distaste.  She wants them now, so she can sell them.  My youngest told me that she has stopped talking to my DD27 about the NC between us, as my DD27 told her that she didn't want to discuss it anymore as it was driving a wedge in their sibling relationship.

It seems clear that she is still in a very hateful stage towards me, so I will send the box of clothes and the butterfly dress for GD with a message of care "thank you WW/FB", and like you FB, come here to talk, share my grief and keep hope alive.

I will post again after I have seen my ex-MIL

Merlot

Merlot