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Hi everyone,

I have mentioned in some of my posts that I have struggled in the past with chronic major depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) as well as a substance abuse disorder. The substance abuse is currently not an issue, but lately I have felt some disturbing signs of depression creeping up on me. It's strange because when I was diagnosed with the MDD I had severe, obvious depression that was definitely interfering in my daily life. Lately I have been struggling to determine the difference between the sadness that is to be expected given my current situation and the ghosts of the depression rattling their chains at my door again. Since I have had serious issues with it before, I  don't want to get into the "danger zone" with it again. The longer you entertain the depressive thoughts without taking measures to arrest them, the easier it is to get bogged down and the harder it is to get unstuck.

The main difference I have seen when I have researched the symptoms of depression is the presence/absence of a feeling of hopelessness. At first glance, I say "no, I don't feel hopeless."

But maybe I do, sometimes, in fleeting moments, and I just don't recognize it as the beginnings of depression because I do take measures to stop those kinds of thoughts.

Anyone else have similar struggles with depression? Anyone else find that depression takes different forms and manifests in different ways that may be subtle at first?

Just wondering if I am being hypervigilant because I know I have the disorder (or at least I was diagnosed with it.) Also wondering if maybe I have had low to moderate-grade depression for years now due to the abuse and stress of my r/s with uBPDh, and maybe it just became my "normal".

Thanks for reading.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Dearest Redeemed-

I have been off the boards for almost a week now, cannot even reply to responses to my own post... .due to deep depression.  So the answer is yes.

If you find yourself having that "hopeless" feeling, then perhaps it's time to take your step forward and seek help.  Once you're in the darkness, it's so hard to climb toward the light.  If your hopeless feelings are more related to your BPDh, then maybe you're subconsciously dealing with the grief and sadness of letting go of that relationship.  That could be something to look at more closely.

Mostly, when you know where your sadness can take you, please try to take the wheel while you still have the presence of mind and the strength- for you and your child.  I haven't read much lately, but if these feelings have come on and could be tied to increased contact with your BPDh, then maybe it's time to care for yourself and seriously decrease or cut off contact for a while.  That's what you do have control over.

Wishing you true happiness.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Hi to you, Iamredeemed.

yes i think a feeling of hopelessness caused me a great deal of depression at certain periods of life, and I did recognise it back then. ive been through substance misuse too and felt stronger as a result. there has nothing that compared to taxing me mentally than my experience with BPD ex. i was pushed so close to the point of joining her in psychosis to even regard the existence of a depression or anxiety. the insomnia, nightmares and general feeling of being fatigued during the day, combined with having to work 12 hour shifts in a stressful job on top of having to deal with that relationship i look back and cant imagine how I managed for so long.

i do feel like i understand where you are coming from. i can feel upset but not necessarily depressed. the feelings of hopelessness you could describe could equally be part of anxiety rather than depression. and as you say, a symptom of ptsd flash backs being occassionally triggered. especially if there are periods of time that you are generally feeling ok and not constantly low mood. this is the place I am at now, i am generally happy to have got my life back on track and making good progress in so many areas, but then for no apparent reason, i get a few days where she becomes like a splinter in my head, and just remembering causes a sort of loop cycle of anxiety.

might ask my doctor for some sort of anxiolytic. ive found my anxiety levels dropped considerably as i started to stop caffeine. sounds trivial when you think of the stuff ive been through but i think it deserves a mention, sometimes it is small things we neglect that actually play a big part in our moods. when i was at my worst despair during the relationship i could stay at home all day just drinking coffee for energy and chain smoking myself to death as i tried to ruminate, meditate and generally piece together what was going on in my life. ive since cut down caffeine, got better sleep, exercise more and noticed huge improvements as a result.

I think it's important to make note of all our feelings. It attunes us into what is going on and lets us know when there is something that needs to be changed. You said you were diagnosed with chronic major depression, but could that have changed? There is a mild chronic depression called Dysthmia. It's not a deep depression, but a constant sadness. (Pretty sure I have this).

Have you gone through the full grieving process? Regardless of whether you are struggling with depression or grief, just get it all out. Yell, cry, laugh--whatever it is that you are experiencing, just experience it. Don't throttle it (Don't take it out on others either, but in privacy).

Thanks everyone for the replies,

Gems, it means so much to me that you would reach out in the midst of your own pain and sadness. I have made the step towards getting back into therapy, because I decided it was time to stop procrastinating. I called my former counselor yesterday and set up an appointment for next week. I am also going to talk to her about getting back on my antidepressant medication. I have not been taking it for over a year now and I can tell the struggle is much harder without it. Strangely, I don't think my frustration is related directly to uBPDh. It more or less is a combination of a few different situations that I would like to change but don't have the power to at this current time. I also realize I am probably getting burnt out because my schedule is so loaded right now. I wish you the best and I sincerely hope you are taking steps as well to self-care.

Cromwell, I do think a lot of my frustration is related to anxiety is well. I have always struggled with it. As a recovering addict, I don't have the option of taking many of the medications prescribed for anxiety (Xanax, Valium, Ativan, etc.) and I wouldn't want to anyway because I don't like medication that makes me sleepy or foggy or has addictive properties. I think you are on to something about the caffeine, though. I drink entirely too much coffee and energy drinks to try to keep going with my full schedule. The cigarettes are another addiction I would like to kick as well. I am embarrassed that I am a Christian who still smokes, especially since my mother is dying from lung cancer. I try to remember that I can't work on everything at once.

Tattered Heart, I have read about the dysthmia and I do think it better fits me than the MDD, at this point in my life. Seven to ten years ago my depression symptoms were much more severe and obvious than now. I realize that a lot of the sadness and frustration is situational, and I know that I should not continue to pretend that I can carry this without outside help. We possibly may be discussing hospice for my mother soon, on top of everything else, and I have been trying to hold in my grief over that and continue on at work and while taking care of kids so that I don't break down, but it just results in explosions of temper at inappropriate times and that has to stop.

Thank you everyone for reaching out,

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Have you checked your blood pressure. mines sits at 90 now, Idve not liked to have measured it 6 months ago. Its great to hear someone else who has escaped addiction and doesnt want to go back on that road, so well done.  |iiii

Like you say, it is often a weighing up game. I just cant give up cigarettes at the moment, when the stress comes it relieves it. But that is far better progress than what I was resorting to in the past. I have cut out the energy drinks, I do rarely have one, but when I do it is very noticeable how "wired" I get and due to already having borderline (oh theres that word again) concerned level of blood pressure, it is too much stimulation and causes knock on effect of anxiety, affects sleep which is vital to improving rest and mood, so im too tired next day to exercise, which is excellent for mood, instead I have coffee all day to stay awake for work. Alongside that, coffee is the trigger for a cigarette.

a chamomile tea is just as effective as a valium.

as you say, it takes time to change habits that have helped us through worse and you will know your own limitations. its more of a marathon than a sprint, but we will get there eventually, all the same.  |iiii  

Cromwell

Hi TH, I'm sorry to hear you've been struggling with so much depression recently.


I don't have a lot of knowledge of depression in the clinical sense but I have been having extreme bouts of depression in the last few weeks, which I brought up with my counselor yesterday. I agree that depressive thoughts should not be entertained, but I'm concerned with the language you use in terms of "arresting them". The way I see any emotion is that it is trying to tell us something important and should not be shunned. Anger tells us that someone has violated our boundaries. Fear tells us we have a challenge to our safety somewhere near us. I think depression, unless we have a biological reason for it, is also our hearts trying to inform us of something that is wrong.

After talking with my counselor, we identified the likely source of my depression being that fact that it will be a long time before my situation is resolved and I feel like I'm still going to be living in a nightmare for years to come. Whether or not this is true, the feeling has certainly been weighing on me.

Your depression may come from many places, including your grief over having to put your mother in hospice. I can see you have a lot on your plate right now. I truly hope you can get the help you need right now to see you through this time. You have our support!

Hugs,
~ROE

Thanks everyone,

Cromwell, my blood pressure seems to be normal and I have never had problems in that area, but I can tell that I feel more wired when I step up the caffeine intake and then I do have trouble sleeping... .in addition to S2 waking me up at night. Sometimes when my son wakes me up, I have trouble going back to sleep. The smoking does weigh on my conscience and it is something I will address eventually, but as you said there are much worse things I have used for comfort and stress relief in the past.

ROE,

You are right about our feelings trying to tell us something. I don't want to ignore the signals my emotions are sending, but I don't want to fall victim to my own negative thoughts either. I am starting therapy this week, so maybe that will help me to develop some coping skills to deal with all the life stress I have right now.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Dear Redeemed-

I want to pipe in here because I'm beginning to claw my way out of my darkness, at least today.  I pretty much stopped drinking caffeine about 7.5 years ago.  Before I went strictly to decaf,  I was mixing half decaf and half caf when I made my morning coffee.    Then when the violence hit my marriage, I went back on the caffeine and cigarettes due to stress and a heavy workload.  For about three weeks I had this racing feeling in my chest that never seemed to stop.  Then BOOM!  Full blown anxiety attack.  First ever.  I was on the phone with a girlfriend in another city, told her I was about to blackout and had to hang up.  She called 911.  I had no idea she'd called them.  In the meantime I called my neighbor who came over and was making my Twig tea for me (more on this later).

I was separated from violent husband.  I couldn't stand and was sitting on floor. Suddenly all these EMT's showed up.  I was stunned because I didn't call them.  They did tests and more tests and then told me I HAD to go to the hospital.  They got a bad read on my heart.  I was 53.  They did oxygen in ambulance.  I was inconsolable.  So they injected me with Ativan at hospital.  ER doctor was an angel.  He sat with me for about an hour holding my hand after second set of tests and asked what he could do for me.  I said, please be kind to your wife.

Eight hours later... .who shows up, but violent husband.  Third worst night of my life... .says he's taking me home and spending night at the house.  Second Worst night was when he was arrested for throwing me across the room the prior month.  So I took a pill they gave me and basically passed out.

I no longer drink caffeine except when I have a headache.  It cures my headaches.  I have anxiety pills called clonazepam.  I am prescribed to take up to 2 pills per day (.5 mg).  Sometimes I take a half a pill and sometimes I take nothing.  I can feel when I need it.  If you need it, you're only tired in the first 5 or so days of starting, but you start slowly. I definitely do NOT think clono is as addictive as Ativan.

I drink this tea, its organic Haiku Twig tea, which I've been drinking for 21 years.  PM me and I'll tell you the brand.  It's a wonderful, amazing big tea!  I drink it day and night and can drink it and go straight to sleep.  You can put vanilla soy milk, honey, turbanado brown sugar or nothing in it.  I don't get colds and if I ever get sick, I heal faster than most people (knock on wood!).  Lots of days I drink it instead of the decaf.

Finally, I just reminded myself that the B vitamins (especially B12, I believe and possibly B6) and Folate are especially good for warding off, or assisting with depression.  And can also assist with helping meds work more effectively.  So something to consider.

What we are going through can make our lives feel so disjointed and fragmented.  But you, I, we are body wholes, not body parts.  We are souls who need and deserve complete care.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Thanks Gems,

I know the caffeine intake is really bad for me, and the cigarettes even worse. I am falling back on the easiest way to keep going because I have not disciplined myself enough to change my habits. I just turned 40 last fall and my energy level is not what it used to be. Also I have experienced chronic fatigue for the last few years. Hard to pinpoint the cause because there are so many factors. I entered a behavioral hospital and then a treatment center in September of 2010 when I detoxed from a very high dose of methadone that I had been prescribed for almost eighteen months. I proceeded to meet uBPDh two months later and our relationship became a constant source of stress within months. Also, I gave birth to four of my six children between September 2011 and December 2015. That's a lot to handle physically, mentally and emotionally. During that time I also experienced recurring abuse, lost custody of my kids (except S2, who I now am the sole caretaker of), lost my father and found out that my mother is dying of cancer. Some days I wonder how I am not in a straight jacket somewhere.
I have taken clonazepam before, though it was not prescribed to me. My drug of choice was not benzodiazepines, rather it was prescription opiates, but I prefer to not use any controlled substance nor street drugs nor alcohol, because I am keenly aware of my addiction disorder and how it deceives me into believing that I can "handle" any use of substances. It's just better I don't- no matter what it is.
I would be interested in the tea, though. I will pm and ask you. I have sinus and allergy problems as well, maybe the tea would help with that too.
So glad to hear from you and to hear that you are making your way out of the dark days. I recently started therapy again and I feel relieved that I have outside support. It's too easy to isolate and get stuck in my bad feelings.
Take care gems and thank you so much for your response.

Blessings and peace,
Redeemed

Hi Redeemed-

You have been through so so much, dear girl.  I am so deeply sorry, and yet you offer so much support to others.  You truly are an inspiration.  And I'm sorry for what you're facing with your mom.  That's so painful.  And scary... .Sometimes I ask GOD... .what are you thinking? 

I'm really sorry, I totally understand about the no Clono.  I didn't register that it was a controlled substance.  I also know two people in AA who take Xanax, but hearing this, my guess is they shouldn't be doing that.

For the sinus issues... .have you ever heard of manual lymphatic drainage?  Here's a true thing.  I had an intense sinus infection about 8 years ago and was told I needed surgery.  Had been through two courses of prednisone and antibiotics.  My whole tone of voice changed so much that my Dragon voice on the computer didn't recognize me anymore!  I could NOT sneeze, my nose wouldn't even run.  It was bizarre.  Well, went to a woman for a facial and she did this "manual lymphatic drainage".  It's light massage movements.

I think she did it maybe for two sessions.  Well my nose started running, the infections cleared and NEVER returned.  STBx BPDbf occasionally has terrible sinus headaches, so now I did it to him.  I have no training.  I just do light, round movements with my fingertips starting on the bridge of the nose down toward under the eyes.  Results are amazing.  Probably can google it.  Also use a Nettie pot daily to clear the sinuses.  And You can try Stinging Nettle for allergies rather than those toxic medicines.  I figure with cigarette use, better to avoid as much other toxins whenever possible.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Hi Redeemed,  sorry you are struggling.  Glad you made an appointment with therapist.  I have anxiety and I drink herbal tea to help relax me at bedtime.  Also, my doctor prescribed a compounded multi vitamin to help my immunity because stress was making me ill.  It really helped.

I hope you are having a better week.  You have been so strong.  Please take care of yourself.  You are a special person!

Blessings and peace,
Mustbe

Hello Redeemed,

It's been a little while.  How are you feeling?

WW

Hi WW,

My feelings are doing a good impression of a yo-yo these days. I can feel anxious, angry, frustrated, sad, guilty, desperate, numb, hopeful, and confident all in the same day. Every day. I am really tired and I have no time to myself, as S2 requires my full attention every minute except for when I am at work- and I have a job that requires mental concentration and memory to juggle several things at once, as I am liable to be taking care of the needs of up to twenty-five people at the same time. I also try to do my schoolwork at night when s2 is sleeping, because he likes to come bang on my laptop when I am trying to do my classwork. His sleep schedule is off because my schedule is crazy- we usually don't get home until after 9 pm. He has also been waking up at night, and that makes me even more exhausted. I am sure this is contributing a lot to my moodiness.

I am trying not to let the feelings overwhelm me. Usually they will pass and I can function well enough to do what I need to do. I just worry about burnout, because I don't have much time to just relax. I am always trying to accomplish something- work, schoolwork, housework, laundry, all while s2 is underfoot (except work of course). I have been reading the books I bought, usually at night after s2 goes to sleep and I have finished my schoolwork. (I am staying up too late, I know, but it's the only "me" time I get.) I have already read the Eggshells book, the Boundaries book, almost all of I Hate You Don't Leave Me, and almost all of Should I Stay Or Should I Go by Lundy Bancroft. (I meant to also buy Why Does He Do That, but somehow I accidentally bought two copies of Should I Stay Or Should I Go.) Haven't started the Stark book yet.

Communication with uBPDh has been reduced to about once every three days. Our conversations are not upsetting, necessarily. He asks me how I am feeling/doing. I tell him. Then he relates what I tell him to a situation he is experiencing and the conversation becomes all about how he is feeling and what is stressing him. He says he is not in a good place mentally. I try to be supportive, but I can't help noticing that once again I am spending time trying to help him with his thoughts/feelings/healing, when I have a backlog of thoughts/feelings/unresolved anger and trauma that I have only just begun to unpack. The irony of the situation is not lost on me; in fact it is glaringly clear to me that this man harmed me in every possible way you can think of (mentally, emotionally, physically, even spiritually at times), and not only was he an actively destructive partner who inflicted many traumatic wounds on me, he was also NOT a supportive partner- he neglected me emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually. Yet here we are- in the midst of my own confusion and pain over the harm HE CAUSED ME I am trying to be supportive and encouraging to HIM with HIS FEELINGS.

And then he asks me for money. And I, because I am who I am, send it to him. I feel sorry for him, even though he is in jail because he hurt me. Once upon a time a long time ago, I spent a few weeks in jail and it was horrible. So maybe that memory is influencing me a little bit. Maybe I am trying to lessen the consequences for him since this time I didn't protect him from them. I don't know if I am sending him money because I am a person who "loves her enemy" and "treats others how I would want to be treated" or if I am doing it because of FOG (although there have been no threats or manipulation by emotional blackmail if I don't send it. He just asks, gives me a reason why he has already used up the money I already sent (which may or may not be plausible; commissary is expensive and I know he is sharing with his brother because they are locked in a cell together) and he thanks me for what I have done for him and also for helping his mother (I gave her grocery money and paid her light bill.)

I have confusing, mixed feelings about sending him money. I am embarrassed to even tell anyone that I am doing it, except his mom. And, now, you guys.

Is it FOG if the pwBPD isn't threatening you if you don't comply, or emotionally blackmailing you? I read the article on FOG again, and he isn't doing any of those things (this time) so is it still FOG?

Am I being gullible? Why is this so hard to figure out?

Anyway, that's where I'm at today. Confused. Frustrated. Feeling bad about myself for being gullible (cause I kind of think I am, no matter how I try to justify it. ) Worried that my FOO will find out I am in contact and helping uBPDh financially, and then I will have to listen to their crap.

Thank God I can be honest here, without fear of judgment.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Hello Redeemed,

Wow, that's about three full loads of work.  If you can manage to take care of yourself well enough that you don't spontaneously combust, you are going places!

All of your feelings about your husband make sense.  The thing that really stands out is that you are being thoughtful and reflective about what you're doing -- you have self awareness.  Oddly, that sometimes doesn't seem to make it easier to change our actions!  At least for a while.  It takes time.  Yes, the FOG can be thick even if our pwBPD aren't actively laying it on.  We get so conditioned to it that we do it to ourselves.  The slightest sign of distress on their part, or even us imagining their distress, can make it kick in.  Congrats on getting the call frequency down to every three days!  You may find that with more time, you'll be able to get even better boundaries.  I'm wondering if the fact that you are working so hard and spread so thin is making your "processing time" for all of this slower.  Perhaps considering that possibility might allow you to worry less about the speed of how your perspective is evolving.  You are headed in the right direction.  You will get to where you need to go!

How's the car?  Are you getting visits with your older kids?

WW

Hi WW,

I definitely think I am making slow progress because of all the stress. I usually have only one day off, and the other days are full with work and child care. I always have s2 of course and then four days a week I baby-sit my co-worker's kids in exchange for her watching s2 while I work. It's exhausting.

I see my kids for about an hour once a week. Our visits consist of us going out to eat somewhere, so there is not a lot of bonding opportunity, but I am in the application process for a house that will be large enough for them to come visit overnight. My roommate and I are planning to move out together. It's kind of a covert operation, because she is trying to get away from her child's father who still lives with us. Their r/s has ended, but he does not want to accept it. The urgency has been stepped up in light of recent events; two weekends ago her friend called the police on him because they were having an argument and he used physical intimidation to refuse to keep her from leaving when things got heated. This is extremely concerning to me given the abuse I experienced. The police did not do anything because she had no visible marks on her, even though her friend had video recorded him standing over her and blocking her with his arms from getting off the couch. Thankfully S2 was not there, as I was at work and he was at the sitter's.

No word on the car. I have no way of contacting the person who sold it to me/is supposedly fixing it. All communication is mediated through my roommate's ex (the same person I mentioned above) and he says that this man is not responding to his attempts to communicate with him. I don't know whether to believe him or not. I know most of what he says is bs, and I kind of think he doesn't want me to have this man's number because he probably lied to me about the cost of the car and sold it to me for more than the price the man was asking for it. That's my theory, anyway. I have just decided to leave it up to God for now, because I am tired of worrying about it and I have more stressing situations on my mind. If and when I ever get the car back, I am just going to sell it anyway. I have some money coming in and I plan to just buy the van I wanted to get in the first place.

My mother's cancer has spread in her lungs. The prognosis is poor, and the doctors have recommended hospice care be started for her. She will not have to leave the facility she is in currently; she will just receive an extra level of care and pain management. They are not sure how long she may have left.

My children miss me. I was able to go to see D9 and D10 sing in their spring honor choir concert for school. D9  spotted me and S2 when we walked in and I saw her turn around and tell D10 that we were there. They both waved and gave big smiles    .

My sister counted that as our visit for the week. I did not sit with my other kids because I was afraid S2 would be too wild if he saw his brothers and sister (S6, S5, and D4) and I had enough trouble trying to contain him during the concert  . When the concert was over, I tried to at least briefly hug and kiss all my kids as they were walking out. D4 said she missed me. My sister was in one of her "moods" I guess, because she did not acknowledge either me or S2 and said in a frustrated voice to my kids "Come on!" as she motioned them to hurry up. Nothing happened between us to provoke this interaction. That is simply how she is- one day she is fine and we have a good conversation, the next day she doesn't even acknowledge my existence. This is the same type of dysfunction I experienced with her as a child when she was raising me (my sister is 20 years older and she stepped in to raise me after my mother's suicide attempt when I was 2.) She also has taught my children to call me by my first name, and to call her "Mama." This is extremely hurtful to me. I try to remember that my kids are MY KIDS no matter what name they call me. I will always be their mother, and she will always NOT be their mother.

I trust God in His infinite wisdom and timing to work all these situations out for my good and His glory. I try to remember that no matter how much stress I experience in my current situation, it is not nearly as bad as living with uBPDh in his addictive and psychotic state just four short months ago.

As far as the situation goes with sending uBPDh money in jail, I asked God to reveal to me what He thinks about it. Directly after I prayed about this, I felt something in my spirit prompting me to read the verse of the day on my Bible app. When I did, the verse was this:

"And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." (Colossians 3:17.)

To me that means that my question of "is this right or is this wrong" was answered with "it's not the act itself that is necessarily wrong, it's your motive for doing it." The act of sending money to uBPDh in itself is not wrong. My perception and motives of it are (but this can be changed.) Basically, I think God was saying to me "If you're going to do it, do it out of love and not out of fear. If you feel resentful, then your motives are wrong."

Conversely, the same could be said for my motives to stop sending money. If I do it solely because I am worried about what other people will think if they knew, then that motivation is also wrong.

I believe God is gently trying to counsel me about how to stop perceiving actions in "black or white" fashion, search my motives, and learn how to take actions for the right reasons, which involves love and not fear.

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Thanks for the update!

Regarding your progress towards a better situation for you and all of your kids, you have a lot of ground to cover, but, shall I say, have Biblical determination to get where you're going!  As long as you're moving forward more than you're moving backward, you will eventually get there.  Your kids see you doing this, and someday, they will understand the strength it took you to get through all you did and get them back.

Yes, I also find it's helpful to me to check my motives when I am contemplating action.

Glad you have a transportation plan you'll have more control over!  |iiii

WW

Update:

My sister signed paperwork for hospice care for my mother. She is not eating enough to last long. The cancer has spread in her lungs. My sisters decided not to do the feeding tube.

This sucks.

I’m so sorry, Redeemed.  Prayers for you, and your family.

Mustbe

Redeemed, I am so sorry to hear the sad news.  Are you able to visit your Mom?

WW

I am able to on certain days, it just depends on when I can borrow my roommates car. I have been working so much and trying to write a paper for school and also talking to a guy about renting a house. It's just so much right now.

It sure is.  Hang in there.  You can do it!  |iiii

WW

Thanks WW,

Meeting with my T tomorrow. Might talk about going back on antidepressants because of the added stress.

Trusting God for His infinite wisdom and guidance.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

IAR,

Sometimes... .manytimes... it's wise to list out your things and rank them in importance to you today.  Then I would challenge you to imagine the list in the context of the next 10 years, what stuff will be memorable and "matter" and what may end up being part of the "administrivia" (new FF word) of our lives that just happens and fades away.

Can we make sure we have the list right

Work
paper for school
house talk/renting
time with Mom

Can you rank those for us? 

FF

Hey there, Redeemed, how are you doing?

WW

Hospice is calling in the family today. Something happened over the weekend to cause Mom to go down quickly and they put her on oxygen. We were advised not to come alone.

I'm praying you are able to arrange the time and means to go.

   

Also remember in all of the whirl of activity to be kind to yourself.

Please update us when you can?  How far away does she live?

FF

Our thoughts and prayers are with you.  You are not alone. 

WW

Thanks WW,

Mom passed away today. My sister and I were able to go and see her before she went. Mom was unresponsive, hooked up to oxygen and we couldn't tell if she knew we were there but we talked to her anyway. We stayed about an hour and told her we loved her and that it was okay to go if she wanted to.

Just over an hour after we left the hospice worker called and said Mother's breathing had become very shallow. 30 minutes later she passed away. I believe she was waiting for us to come to see her, and then I think she waited until we left so she could go in peace.

I know she is happy now. She will be cremated and we will spread her ashes with my dad's (which I have saved since his death in 2014) in the family cemetery in her home town. We will have a plaque made for both of them.

I prayed that God would not let her suffer and he didn't. He brought her home quickly. Before I left I turned the TV on in her room and put it on the Christian channel she was always watching. It's the same one I always watch too and I like to think that if she could hear it that it gave her some comfort in her final hours.

Blessings and peace to you all.

I Am Redeemed

Redeemed,  so very sorry about your mom.  I am glad you had a chance to say goodbye.  When I think of you and all the difficulties you have been courageously facing, I say a little prayer for you.  I will be praying for you in the coming days. 

Take care of yourself - you're the only you! 

Thank you Mustbe,

I pray for you too.

Redeemed

   

Be extra kind to yourself.  I hope you can reflect on things you can say when it comes time to spread her ashes.

I hope those memories bring smiles even if there are tears as well.

FF

Thanks FF,

I was trying to figure out how to answer your question about ranking things. I didn't know where to put anything on the list because they all have significant impact on the future and are bound by their own time constraints.

Today I was fortunate to be able to set aside schoolwork and work to spend what were literally some of my mother's last hours with her. I am glad that I got one last chance to make her a priority because I have failed to do so many times in the past.

I am also fortunate to have managers who are understanding and compassionate. I have taken the next day or two off with the option to take more as needed. I know I need time to process and I am still in the "shock" stage right now. Even when someone has a terminal illness, the end is never really expected to come when it does.

I remember when my father was first admitted to the nursing home after a prolonged hospital stay. The dementia and other health issues had caused him to need round the clock care. My mother followed about two months later, and she told me the story of their reunion in the nursing home. They spotted each other down the hall and rolled their wheelchairs towards each other as fast as they could. I imagined a scene from a movie where the two lovers run towards each other in slow motion, in a meadow, with flowers and butterflies and arms outstretched- except this was real life, and they were rolling wheelchairs towards each other in a nursing home. Still, the feelings of love were there.

I can't help but think that maybe their reunion today was like that- except this time they could run towards each other freely and without the physical limitations of failing, aging bodies.

Love you Mom and Dad.

Redeemed, I am so sorry for your loss, but so glad to hear that you were able to be with your mother in her final hours.  Thank you for sharing that touching story of your parents' reunion in the nursing home.  That indeed sounds like a great moment, and as you said, they are reunited without wheelchairs now.

Take care,

Wentworth

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support.

I called my mother-in-law last night and told her. UBPDh will probably not be calling until Thursday so he doesn't know about mom yet. I asked MIL to tell him if he calls.

The irony is not lost on me that uBPDh has been incarcerated during both my father's passing and now my mother's. His behavior really has caused so much disruption in our lives. My sisters both have supportive husbands who are standing by them during this difficult time, and I can't help but make a comparison.

Maybe I am just sad and feeling reflective and a little lonely. It is a strange thing to have both parents deceased. It makes me want to hug all my children tight and cherish the moments I have with them.

Thank you guys for being here, because I really do feel alone and then I remember that I have this community to go to. It's comforting to know you are all here. Thank you.

Redeemed

I have had similar thoughts and perspective changes since my Dad passed away in December.  My Dad was the family patriarch and that has now passed to me.  I was involved in farming and other family business things, yet everyone knew that Dad had final say, even if he let you make certain decisions ... .even making those alone and telling him later.

That all stops with me now. 

I also sort of look at my kids differently.

There is a change in my relationship with my uBPD wife... .that is still evolving.  Perhaps it is best expressed by saying that I understand the importance of time... .what I spend my time on and MOST IMPORTANTLY what I don't spend time on.

To try and be succinct, my wife has become much more conservative and judgmental (and of course hypocritical) in her Christian life.  I made what I feel was a good faith attempt to understand her point of view and that portion of the Christian community.  Nothing really wrong with that community, but through in BPDish stuff... .and shifting goalposts... .and hypocrisy... .

Well... .I don't have time for it.

I still worship, in fact I think my relationship with God and my faith is better.  My wife can do her thing... and I'll do mine.

So... .IAR, to circle around to your immediate thoughts and feelings.  I wonder if you spent some time reflecting about how you spend your time and energy with respect to your kids and how you spend your time and energy with respect to the BPDish parts of your hubby and your relationship with him.

Knowing what you know now and feeling what you feel now about time and wanting to hug your children closer... .how might that impact decisions you make about how you spend your time.

FF

I can very much identify with having a spouse who is unavailable to support us during a parent's passing, due to his or her abuse against us.  It is a life milestone, one of those "for worse" parts of "for better or for worse," and they are a no-show.  Upon the passing of a member of the older generation, particularly a parent, I also have had the similar reflections to formflier about time -- how to spend the time we have left, and who to spend it with.

WW

Hi I am Redeemed,

I’m so glad that you are able to take a little time off.  I know you need it.  I prayed for you today.  You can get through this difficult time.  It sounds like you are getting more clarity. 

Let me echo what the others are saying.  Time is precious.  Now that I am separated from my UBPDH, I have spent more time with other members of my family.  I do love my husband, but as you say disruptive behavior can keep us from using our time wisely, and getting our own needs met.

I’m glad you are posting and finding support here. 

Peace and blessings,  Mustbe

Thank you all for your support. FF, to answer your question, yes I have. It has surfaced some very uncomfortable feelings which I am struggling to deal with on top of the grief I feel.

I could list many instances where the behavior of my husband directly caused me to neglect my family. Now, mind you, my dad was also very adept at using FOG tactics, so many times I felt like a fish being pulled apart by two seagulls, but I know without a doubt that I would have taken much different actions in certain situations had it not been for the chaos and craziness of BPD behavior.

Just a snapshot... .my father was in the hospital in the spring of 2014. This was directly before he was placed in the nursing home. Mother was alone at the house and could not walk on her own. The home health care people said it was a hazard for her to be in the house alone (in case of fire, etc.) and needed someone to stay with her because her Medicare only paid for so many hours in a day, etc., etc.

Long story short, I intended to stay with my mother until Dad got out of the hospital, but one of those nights happened to fall on my first wedding anniversary. We had already arranged for childcare before the Mom thing came up, and basically uBPDh acted like an immature child using every BPD tactic you can think of to get his way, which was us leaving Mom alone in the house overnight and going to do what he wanted to do.

Never mind that it was MY anniversary too, or that my mother really needed me. He could not stand for anyone else to come before him and what he wanted.

I would do all of that so differently if I could. Regrets... .I've had a few... .thousand... .

I also am feeling an increased surge of guilt because I believe I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what was wrong with uBPDh and get him the proper treatment to make him "better" so our older children could come home. Five years later... .he's still at square one, as if he never went to therapy, anger management, outpatient drug treatment, AA meetings... .you name it. Nothing took effect. Nothing. He never made any progress and I spun my wheels holding out hope while the years passed and my children now call my sister "mom".

Incidentally, she picked just absolutely precisely the most optimal time ever in the whole world (does the sarcasm show a bit) to ask me what my intentions are regarding visitation with my children. She wanted to know if I was going to seek to regain custody eventually, and she basically told me that my kids have bonded with her since she has had the little ones for most of their lives, and also told me that D9 would also not want to come live with me again because she tells my sister that she wants to "live with her forever."
Then she told me that D10 and D4 would probably be ok with coming back to live with me because (and I quote) "they'll just go to anybody. D4 would leave with a stranger."

She said all this while we were LITERALLY standing at my mother's deathbed.

And now I am second guessing myself, because that's what I do (especially as a survivor of verbal abuse) and wondering if maybe I should just let go of the idea that my kids will ever come home to me.

I refrained from reacting in the sarcastic and vehement manner that I felt inside. What I wanted to say was "are you SERIOUS, they're my CHILDREN FOR GOD'S SAKE!" but what I said was (truthfully) that I can not financially afford to have six kids right now in my current situation, but I would like to start with the overnight visits once I find a house large enough that will satisfy the court and work from there. Eventually I said possibly I would seek a joint-custody arrangement. I know that they are well provided for and they have absolutely bonded to my sister, so I would never want to take them completely away. There are kids who go back and forth between parents, so a family custody arrangement between mother and guardian would probably be similar.

Then she told me that wouldn't work. She claims some of my children would not "do well", meaning they would have relapses in behavior problems.

She refuses to believe that any behavior or emotional problems my children have could be caused by their early and abrupt separation from me. Nor does she see how she has alienated them in some ways from me and pretty much tried to replace me as their mother. They call her mom (she taught them to do that) and they call me by my first name (also her doing.)

SO... .it boils down to this. If I had put my kids first, and not wasted so much time trying to "help" uBPDh, I might not have such a big challenge facing me regarding my kids.

I didn't know, though. I did not understand the magnitude of the issues my h has. I did not understand the complexity of his disorders, behavior, symptoms or prognosis for recovery.

I can only go forward, I cannot go back. And if there's one thing to take away from my mother's passing, it's this: I will never give up pursuing a relationship with my kids.

My mother was not there for me growing up. Physically, yes, but she did not function as my mother in any capacity. Her battles with depression resulted in a suicide attempt when I was 2. The severity of the suicide attempt caused a stroke which left her partially paralyzed for the rest of her life, and also caused some mental damage.

In other words, my mother was never the same. And we never had a traditional mother-daughter relationship. But, from my own experience with mental illness, I have come to realize that it wasn't her fault or mine. It is what it is. But it has taught me that I want to fight even harder for my kids, and I do not want to be defined or ruled by the disorders with which I have been diagnosed. And neither will I be ruled by someone else's.

My children will know, no matter if I ever get custody of them back or not, that I love them and I will never give up on them.

Or myself.

Thanks again to you all for your kind words. It means so much to me that you are here.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Redeemed,

I am so sorry for your regrets.  I can relate.  You are right that we can only move forward.

Your children are your children.  Sure, they will cling to the safe bond they have now, that is natural.  But do not be too accommodating of your sister.  It is wonderful that she has taken them in, that is something to be grateful for.  But as you become more able to care for them and spend time with them, she should recognize that.  As you say, you are their mother.  Your plan to get your life more stable, and more ready for time with them, is a good one.  Keep at it.  Don't doubt yourself.  When they are adults, they will realize that you were always improving, always working to be closer to them, to do what's best for them.  This is in stark contrast to parents who don't work to be close, who drift away over time.  You are telling them that they are valuable.  You are headed in the right direction, against headwinds.  Keep going!

WW

Isaiah 49:25 "Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken, and the prey of the tyrant be rescued; for I will contend with those who contend with you, and I will save your children."

And I found this verse written down at the top of the page in one of Mom's crossword puzzle books (she always had a book she was working in while she watched her preacher shows on TBN):

Romans 8:15 "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God's Spirit when He adopted you as His own children. Now we call Him 'Abba, Father.'"

It was God's way of reminding me that I am not left as an orphan. I have a heavenly Father who watches over me, just as He watched over my mother and brought her home.