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Hi everyone,

Today was earth shattering. S5 and I are safe, under care of social services and staying in the upstairs spare room at a friends house. I have friends who have stepped up, taken us in, and signed paperwork with social services to be physically responsible for us.

This happened, because I had to mandatory report to child protective services today. It was gut wrenching and extremely scary to me. I was so afraid of not being believed. But, they believed me. And they believed S5. S5 disclosed to me, sexual abuse, perpetrated by his dad. I was wearing my audio recorder, as Indo most of the time, just in case my husband calls, I can turn it on. When S5 started talking, I quickly turned it on.

It’s been a hard day. I do not know what will happen tomorrow. Or the next day. But Inwant to say thank you, to each of you, for helping me get this far.

Dig

Dignity&Strength,

I've been following your story, it's outside the scope of my experience so I have not posted before, but I wanted you to know that I'm here, that I'm listening and that I care.

I can't imagine how you are feeling about your son, as a mom what you heard must be so hard!  But I have to tell you I am so relieved that you are both out of that house and that you are both safely with friends.

Sending you and your son               

You have been handling your situation with intelligence and bravery and you will still need both going forward.

Wishing you and your son well 

Panda39

So sorry this has happened to you and your son.  You did what you had to do, that's to your credit.  With all the pain you feel, also know that you are making the best of a bad situation.

We often remark that the hardest step is the first one.  It's so hard to step out of our prior comfort zone, not that we were comfortable there but that it was all we knew.  With information, practical strategies and solid peer support you have made process.  It is now becoming less daunting to take each subsequent step forward.

Some of your prior worries (how can I complete my graduate courses? when does 10 years married count, at divorce filing or at final decree?) are not so urgent now that the feeling of a boxed-in environment is changing.  Focus for now on the important things at hand.  Likely you won't have a hard time seeking a temporary protective/restraining order, getting possession of the residence, etc.  Your child, you and your parenting, all that comes first.

I am so very sorry that your son had to go through that, and so very glad that both of you are safe at the moment.

Why did your friends need to sign paperwork to be physically responsible for you?  What does that mean, legally?

Hi everyone,
Thanks Panda for such a sweet note. You are right, sitting in a medical exam where they do a rape kit on your child is excruciating.  Forever Dad, you are spot on. The first step is describably hard. I have marveled at how S5 made the step first by telling me.

I was granted the emergency protection order, for myself and S5 on Friday. We have a private, closed court hearing later in the week.
The friends who have taken us in, have truly given us a miracle. The bad was so bad, and the rescue is miraculously awesome.

Worried stepmom, The friends had to sign with social services, to not leave S5 and I alone together, basically. It is protocol having to do with preventive measures, to prevent any conversations that shouldn’t take place until I take their parenting classes.

Today was a good day. I am still in shock, at how horrible it is, How on earth a dad could do that to his own son. And hide that part of his personality so well.

So I am on to figuring out the next steps. I’ve msde sure, my attorneybwill be there and have time to meet with me before the court date.

Dig

Dig,

I'm glad you and S5 are safe.  Do you have access to your home to get things you need?

These things S5 said that you were reluctant to share -- were they relevant to abuse?  Or were they different things?  It would be helpful to share in order to give a complete picture.

RC

D&S,

I'm glad you're safe.


Is this connected to what he told you about his dad?

I'm getting confused -- a lot seems to be moving quickly and changing fast.

Please fill us in so we can support you better.

Hi WW, LNL,
The things you asked about are this, from my next note:
“S5 disclosed to me, sexual abuse, perpetrated by his dad. I was wearing my audio recorder, as Indo most of the time, just in case my husband calls, I can turn it on. When S5 started talking, I quickly turned it on.”

Because I sat on the info one day, (Wednesday), and reported on Thursday, I am in hot water with child protective services. Like I mentioned, I was not totally sure that my husband had not coached him to say that, as he has coached him to say other things in the past.
In the past he has coached him to say things like, the barnacle bill the sailor song from Popeye, where Popeye calls Olive Oil a cabbage head. My husband had S5 singing that song, (under the guise that it was innocent and cute), but in actuality, S5 was running up to me singing the line, “you’re nothing but a cabbage head”, while my husband was laughing and enjoying the set up.

Also, the attorney from years ago, around 2016, said that without indisputable evidence, of my husband actually doing something to s3 at the time, that my mothers instinct that he was capable of it, was not enough to prevent full joint custody.

According to the ‘Incest, a Mother’s Worst Nightmare” book, children recant, can be pursuaded to recant by the perpetrator, the mother can create accused of coaching the child to disclose, all sorts of things like that, where the end result was, the child ends up in the hands of the perpetrator, unsupervised.

So, to prevent that, I made a Hail Mary, attempted 3 point shot from the center line... .I left S5 with my husband for a little while Wednesday night, around supertime. With an attempt to record whatever may go on in the house. I tried one time to get indisputable evidence.

And that, may haunt me the rest of my life. The fall out from that short window of time, may be catastrophic. I am NOT a mandatory reporter YET, but when I finish my masters in professional counseling I will be. So, I have questions in my mind now like, will I be kicked out of grad school? Because I didn’t follow the mandatory reporting protocol?
Gotta finish later... .
Dig

Meaning, you suspected that your H coached S5 to tell you that he (H) had sexually molested his S5?

Is that connected to what you recorded Wed night?

Sorry, trying to sort out what's happening here, and it can be hard on the Internet. We don't want to give you advice that makes things worse.

LnL

Dig,

I am so sorry for this turn of events. I am glad you and your son are safe, and that he is still in your custody. In my experience (also in a rural Southern area) Child Protective Services can treat the mother (whether a victim of abuse herself or not) as a perpetrator. My advice would be to say as little as possible to them. Do NOT trust the caseworker. I know that sounds terrible, and I'm sure that there are some ethical people who genuinely care for the best interests of the child who work for CPS. However, in my experience, it is crucial to get a lawyer involved right away. Do not sign anything without a lawyer. It would be best if you could get your lawyer to attend any child and family team meetings (CPS likes to have those and of the many, many that I attended without my court-appointed attorney present, I was verbally attacked, interrogated and treated like a perpetrator). My caseworker even outright lied in a team meeting in order to make me look like I was "non-compliant" (they like to use that word).

I would not worry about years down the road after grad school right now. Focus on your immediate situation. Inform your lawyer of everything that happened, and why you did not report immediately. Do not trust CPS, do not trust CPS, do not trust CPS. Start now keeping a log of every interaction and communication you have had with any CPS worker. Use email for communication if possible, so you have a record of what the worker has said. Ask for copies of any reports the case worker has made, and check them for errors (the official case report entered into court for my case was FULL of errors and false "facts"). Let your lawyer review everything and do not agree to any service plans without the advice of your lawyer.

I don't mean to scare you, I just wish that I had done so many things differently when CPS first came into my life five years ago. i would have done whatever I had to do to get a lawyer right away. It's never a good idea to deal with CPS without legal counsel from the get go. They do not have the understanding that many people here on the boards have about the complexities of being in an abusive situation with a pd person, and that it's not as simple as just up and leaving. I completely understand your reasons for not sounding the alarm immediately. CPS will not, and they will try to use it against you.

The guidelines for mandated reporting are listed on government websites by state. Many people believe that the report must be made to child services, but that is not true. Reports can also be made to law enforcement. It may help you to look those up and find out the guidelines (especially the time frame) for mandatory reporting in your state, to ease your anxiety over your future situation for when you do become a counselor.

Sending you strength and        Dig,

I continue to pray for you and your S5.

Redeemed

Hi LNL,
Yes, that’s right, I was suspecting that my husband coached S5 to say the sexual abuse description. A huge reason why, I thought my husband would do that, has to do with a friend we have known for a few years, and her story.

She was a pastors wife, and walked in on her husband and their d5. She was not believed, the d5 recanted, the medical exam came back without conclusive evidence, and SHE LOST all custody of her kids to her husband.

So according to what we know of her story, my husband was aware, it’s possible, for him to gain sole custody if I accuse him of that and the pieces of the investigation are not solid.

The book I mentioned describes in detail, how often our friends story actually happens, and it is common in incest cases.

It’s mind boggling how what happens, but we have seen it, first hand.

But, I didn’t coach S5 to say what he did. S5 started talking to me, when we were alone, driving home from town Tuesday night. Out of the blue. I was wearing my recorder, in case my husband calls, I turn it on quickly. So, when S5 started talking, I turned it on. He was still talking when we pulled in the driveway, we were home alone, so I let S5 continue. When we got into the house, I asked S5 to show me where these things happened. I flipped out my phone, camera set to record video, and captured a video of S5 describing where in the living room, and what his daddy did.

S5’s choice of words concerned me, they were not words I had taught him. He used the word ‘ass’ instead of bottom. His daddy uses more crass versions of words rather than polite. So it seemed possible, with my husband’s word choice being “ass” and my preference that I taught S5 (bottom)  that MAYBE I was being set up.

Monday night, (the night S5 said that daddy did those things) I had a voice recorder hidden in the bathroom my husband uses, just to see if I could catch him telling S5 to be mean to me.

Tuesday night, we were alone, husband gone on a train, and S5 disclosed late that night on the way home from town. It was bedtime when we got home. We had to be up early the next morning for a school thing for S5 and myself. I thought about going right then, to the police station, but I was so worried about what to do, and what was the right choice to keep S5 completely safe forever.

So Wednesday night, while I was out of the hous, I scanned each recording that recorder had, to see if it captured any sound from the living room. It was a long distance, with the laundry and dryer running in between. So the little voice recorder was indiscernible, to verify s5’s words.

I could not seep Wednesday night, because I knew what I had to do on Thursday. I had to mandatory report what S5 said to social services.

Thursday after our homeschool group (it was the first meeting with that group, we couldn’t miss it) I got us some lunch at the drive through and took us to social services.

The investigation and all the pieces evolved from there.

S5 is needing me, I’ll write and explain more when I can.
There is a hearing, protection order, and things to describe.
Dig

Hi I am Redeemed,
Thank you so much. Yes, I am in the south, and yes CPS is treating me like a criminal as well.
I completely agree, not to trust the case worker. I think it’s a good idea to fill the friends I am staying with in on this concept. ASAP.

I may do that now, while I have a chance, S5 is still asleep.

I’ll write more when I can.
Dig

Dig, thanks for the updates.  Don't beat yourself up over how the last couple of days went down.  A DV psychologist and an advocate both told me when I was fretting over the awkwardness of my exit that you get out however you get out.  It's especially tough when dealing with coercive tactics and a high-functioning abuser.  You're out.  Take a deep breath, listen to the good advice of folks like livednlearned and I Am Redeemed, get your lawyer involved with CPS, and step carefully from there.  Worry about consolidating your current situation -- the only thing about your career that should concern you now is keeping up with your classwork.

What is the plan for the authorities interviewing your son?  That's good that your friends are involved, to prevent any concerns that you are coaching your son.  It seems like the authorities ought to interview him soon, but it's very important for it to be done correctly, by properly trained individuals.  Do such people exist in your locality?  Would they need to be brought in from a larger city?  This is something that your lawyer might be able to investigate for you.

WW

Hi WW,

The forensic interview and medical exam have both been completed, by a specialty children’s abuse team from a well respected child abuse center in town.

They said “they got it” and “S5 did very, very good”.  

I really like the concept of having my lawyer there to speak with child protective services. I have one question about that though... .would that make me seem like I had something to hide, or look guilty of something I haven’t done? I suppose that should be handled with kids gloves... .step carefully.

We are very very blessed to be taken in and made part of the family, with a youngish couple that got married last year. She inherited her family farm, and the pair have been working it nearly by themselves. So S5 has plenty to distract himself with! He gets to ride on the 4 wheeler from the house to the barn with her, and then there’s all the rest! A dairy cow, a thoroughbred horse, a beagle puppy, a cat, young thanksgiving turkeys, chickens and a couple of hogs. And the river! Shallow to sit in and play in the water. It’s a slice of heaven.
The rescue is amazing. We have the upstairs of the farmhouse and the couple has the master bedroom downstairs. They had been waiting for my call, knowing me and this situation well enough to know Id need them one day.

Dig

Dig

I noticed some here have asked for more details.  I understand it may help responses but I wonder whether you ought to be a bit cautious here?  Though we are pretty much anonymous here and you've been shocked by this out-of-left-field curve ball, if someone in your area connects the dots, your local agencies may frown on you discussing potentially sensitive details this much online.  IDK, just a thought to not list too many details, reserving that to the messaging here for your trusted contacts?

No. You said CPS has already been treating you like a criminal. Your lawyer's presence will more than likely make them back off of you. You don't need the added stress of trying to defend yourself when you know you have always protected the best interests of your child. This lawyer has already been retained by you to help you facilitate a divorce from a potentially dangerous person, and should be involved in this development. A well-trained lawyer can help you get the case with CPS closed as soon as possible, which is what you want. Their continued presence in your life will only complicate matters. Any further proceedings regarding the abuse allegations, including any charges filed, can (and should) be handled by law enforcement.

CPS will likely try to get you to sign a "service plan" which may include you attending parenting classes, a mental health evaluation, a parenting assessment, and possibly even a class or support group for parents of sexual abuse victims. They will require you to abide by the terms of the protective order (as if you wouldn't already) and will likely tell you that you have to abide by their restrictions on any contact with your son and your husband. What they will not tell you is that if you sign this service plan you have essentially agreed to their continued presence in your life until they decide to close the case. That means that if they require you to do any "assessments"' then you will also be required to follow up with any "recommendations". All of this will have to be done to their satisfaction so they will allow you to keep custody of your child.

If the hearing you mentioned is in family court with CPS, it is absolutely essential that your lawyer attend. Family court is much different from criminal court. There is so much about the proceedings that is unknown to the parent. For instance, I was not told that if I did not refute the claim of CPS that I had neglected and failed to protect my children from witnessing domestic violence at the VERY FIRST hearing, that essentially I had just "admitted" to "guilt" and was therefore subject to any and all "services" and other "action steps" that CPS required of me to get my kids back. Basically, I was at their mercy, and I did not realize that the first hearing was so crucial. I was given a court appointed attorney, who pretty much just guided me through the process of "cooperating" with CPS... .and five years later, after I completed every single thing they ever threw at me, I don't have my kids.

You need your attorney. Get CPS out of the way and let law enforcement handle the abuse allegations and investigation. Likely there were law enforcement personnel that covertly witnessed the forensic interview with your son (they were present when my daughters had their forensic interview, also at a well-respected child abuse advocacy center, only law enforcement never followed up with any questioning of my h, me, or my kids, filed no charges, yet CPS took the ball and ran with it).

Praying for you Dig,

Redeemed

Wow. I have never heard of that!

It seems hard to do in practice. How in the world could they ensure you would never be left alone with your own child?

What kind of parenting classes are you expected to take?

You mentioned you have been treated like a criminal by CPS. That must be difficult to say the least. Is it because they are accusing you of leaving S5 alone with his dad that one night?

I didn't have to go through anything with CPS so this is a learning curve here for me.



How is S5 doing?

Does your DV advocate know what's going on? Maybe that's no longer a concern now that you're no longer living in the marital home?

Does S5 know what's going on?

I Am Redeemed,

I'm so sorry you went through what sounds like h#ll with CPS.

Can you help us understand how CPS complicates things when they stay present in your life?


I know there are members here who had positive experiences when CPS became involved.

Maybe it's different depending on what state you are in? Or based on the specifics of your case?

I was given similar advice about parenting coordinators, to avoid having them involved at all costs. I watered down the agreement to the point it was toothless based on that advice, and almost created a worse scenario for me and my son.

The parenting coordinator was responsible for providing witness testimony about the truth, and changed the judge's mind. Good third-party professionals can be powerful. Terrible ones can ruin our lives.

LnL,

It probably does have some to do with the specifics of the case and the area you live in. I have said before, I cannot speak for all CPS agencies as I have only my own experience to personally draw upon. I live in a mostly rural Southern area, as does Dig. However, websites like fightcps.com have opened my eyes up to the fact that there is great abuse of power as well as outright corruption in many CPS agencies across the country.

It is a very long story and I do not intend to totally play the victim, as I made several decisions that contributed to the way things turned out. The basic facts without all the complex, drawn-out details are this: In Feb 2013, my children were removed from my custody. CPS had come out to investigate the report someone made about domestic violence in my home, and bruises on the children (there were none.) I was subjected to a drug test and passed. After an eight-hour long meeting where I had no legal counsel and no one on "my side", in which I was interrogated like a perpetrator, the CPS investigator left the room, came back and informed me that they had made the decision to remove my kids from my custody because I was violating a no-contact order between uBPDh and me. This was not true. A year prior, he was arrested for a dv incident in our home and at that time a no-contct order was mandatorily placed between us. When he pled guilty, it was dropped. There was no existent order, and I was not violating any such order. However, my children (four of them at the time, D5, D3, S1, and S6weeks) were taken from me. At the court hearing, I was given a court-appointed attorney. I was never given the chance to refute the "reason" given to me for my children coming into custody, i.e., the non-existent no-contact order. They had my kids, they knew that there was domestic violence going on, and instead of offering me an alternative solution to solve the issues I had with leaving (no car, no job, nowhere to stay, no money, just had given birth to a baby) they kept my kids in custody and gave me a "service plan" to complete (on my own, with no assistance) to get custody back of my kids. Mental health evaluation, parenting classes, alcohol and drug assessment, tried to make me go to rehab (despite clean drug screens) and later, tried to make me do outpatient drug treatment (again with all negative drug screens, including two hair follicle tests.)

Long story short, we completed the first service plan and were on the tail end of having custody restored. CPS then insisted I enroll my daughters in trauma counseling. I wanted to go to my mental health center, but they made a "referral" to the local child advocacy center for child trauma, physical and sexual abuse. At the first appointment I was given an option to sign a release of information to the CPS investigator. I declined, which was my right, because the judge had just granted me back legal custody. Two days later I began to get harassing phone calls from CPS, citing "new allegations of abuse had been made" and was told to bring my children to a forensic interview. I didn't even know what that was. I contacted my court-appointed lawyer, she said go to it, so I did. ON THE WAY to the forensic interview my kids told me that CPS had interviewed them at school, just hours prior to the scheduled forensic. They said she had asked them about sexual abuse and they had told her what she wanted to hear because they were afraid of being taken away again. I tried calling my lawyer, did not get through. The interview was scheduled, and so I went and told my kids to just tell the truth. Law enforcement witnessed the interview, but never questioned me or my husband. They never filed any charges. Yet CPS took my kids into custody again. They never produced the transcript of the forensic interview where my kid(s) (they flip-flopped on whether it was one or both) supposedly disclosed the alleged abuse. They never specifically said what abuse was supposed to have occurred. They gave the reason for taking my kids from me this time as the fact that they asked my daughter if she told me what she told the CPS investigator, she said yes, and they asked her what I did about it and she said "nothing." Now, the first I had heard anything about what she said to the investigator was ON THE WAY to the forensic. Yet, my kids were taken and I was never given the chance to clear this up. It was back to jumping the hoops, only this time the caseworker purposely dragged her feet in laying out the specific action steps for me to do. She outright lied in one of the team meetings, and she portrayed me as a mother in denial of her husband's abuse of the children. Even though no evidence of any abuse ever surfaced. No charges ever filed, no law enforcement investigation ever took place. When CPS was questioned about why no charges were ever brought, they said it was because law enforcement did not know what county it took place in, and did not know who would have jurisdiction.

Indeed. So two well-respected sheriffs in two different counties just threw up their hands and decided it was impossible to investigate a report of sexual abuse. Give me a  :cursing: break.

My children attended counseling for over a year and during that time no evidence of sexual abuse came up. The counselor recommended that they return to the parents. CPS ignored this and told me they were pursuing termination of my rights. They couldn't technically do this, because I had been actively working to complete the service plan. That's when they started lying, withholding recommendations from me, and sending us in circles until they ran out of things to have us do- and then they started trying to make us start over and take the classes again.

It went on so long, eventually the judge granted my sister legal guardianship.

I'm sorry to hijack your thread, Dig. I just wanted to explain why I do not trust CPS. They treated me like a criminal for being in a r/s with a person who was an abuser. I didn't know about BPD then, though I knew some kind of mental illness was present. And now, I have many people who believe that my h is a sexual abuser and that I am in denial about it.

Incidentally, CPS tried to make my h go to sexual offender counseling without an assessment. The counselor wrote a letter stating that he did not know what he was supposed to be treating him for, and that this type of counseling was for sex offenders on probation and was only recommended by completing a psycho-sexual assessment (which is very hard to do, without criminal charges, or a court order, as we spent a year finding all this out and finally the judge did give him the court order. Assessment results: he does not fit the criteria for a sexual abuser, he is not a threat to the children with regards to sexual abuse or inappropriate contact/behavior, does not need to be on sex offender list, and needs no psycho-sexual counseling).

The counselor actually said that with no criminal charges, he did not understand why we weren't getting our kids back.

And they are still not home. In fact, I have been on supervised visitation for the last four years with them.

Yet I have had full uninterrupted custody of s2 since his birth. So apparently I am a fit mother for him, but deserved to lose my rights to my others, according to CPS.

So there is my horror story. I am sorry this was so long.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Another example of why I have not found CPS to be helpful:

Last fall, when my h was again using drugs and exhibiting increasingly violent and psychotic behavior, I made the desperate decision to leave for my safety and the safety of s2. I did not have time to make a safety plan, I simply jumped out of the van when he was dropping me off at work after he had raged at me, threatened me the whole 45 min drive and almost run the van off the road. He grabbed s2's car seat and refused to let me take him. I jumped out and called the police as he drove off with s2. The police said they could do nothing but a welfare check until I got back to the county we lived in to make a dv report. I called CPS out of desperation. They did not even go to investigate until two days later, by then the police had arrested uBPDh and returned s2 to me. I had already made plans to go fill out a protective order, but CPS demanded that I do it. They threatened to take s2 if I did not. They subjected me to two more drug tests, while I was at work, and they demanded to do a home study where I was staying with a friend. The caseworker showed up unannounced while I was not home and intimidated my roommate into letting her in. She also came up to my place of employment and tried to threaten the employees into giving her my schedule because she said I was "avoiding her'', when really I was babysitting and had four kids under three years old and just had not had time to check my phone. CPS did absolutely nothing to protect my child when his dad took off with him after assaulting me and acting totally psycho, and even though I made the report, they treated me like I was under investigation (again) and bullied me to do what they wanted me to do to "protect my child". For the next two months they created unwanted and unnecessary stress in my life.

So there is another reason why I have not found calling CPS to be of any benefit whatsoever.

Redeemed

Hi Forever dad,
I completely see your point and agree. There have been a few times  I felt I shouldn’t answer some questions. This is not something for public. So, those who have been most helpful here, you’re saying I  can private message here instead of posting on the boards? I noticed the number of people online as users and guests.

Dig

The family law board is one of the boards not visible to search engines. You mentioned your H is not very computer literate, which makes it even less likely he will stumble across the site.

I would not recommend PM'ing members directly especially during a crisis. It makes you more susceptible to inflammatory advice without benefit of collective experience and it goes against the purpose of having a public board for sharing and learning from one another.

How are you doing, D&S?

How is S5 doing?

Hi LNL,
I am ok. I am worried. What is happening is, S5 is acting out. He is being rude and we are house guests. So, I know this is a normal response to trauma, but I am anxious that the couple may say he is too much to handle, or taking us in as long as CPS wants them tonis too much. If so, S5 should go into foster care and be in the custody of the state. I would have to live at the women’s shelter alone. That scenario seems possible and frightening. And S5 doesn’t seem to get it. He’s kicking their puppy, talking back, yet sometimes very sweet.

I realize I am being anxious for something that hasn’t happened about that, but it looks over me. Every cross word out of S5, every misbehavior, it is putting me on eggshells. Again.

S5... .he is sometimes very sweet, happy. But also demanding, defiant, and rude. Disobedient.
But, he has just been exposed to severe trauma. This is his normal.

So the couple wants me to be cold and short with S5, like a “normal”
Kid. It’s stressing  them out a little, for me to give S5 grace, speak to him with kindness, and to try to root out why he is acting out. Spanking, time out, that’s what they are expecting.

It takes me longer to reason and do discipline this way, with kindness, and I can see it’s deiging them nuts. A little. But they are gracious. S5 will get better.

S5 is all the emotions. Happy, sad, mad.,,I suppose he’ll do the stages of grief.He seems to be fishing for confirmation of undonditional love, from me and the  couoke here.!

I have arranged professional hepmfor him, starting next week.
He is a strong kid, and I love him.

Dig

I am wondering what the trial in family court will look like and what will happen on Thursday? (Please forgive the typos, 4:40 am and a cell phone is what’s causing that, I’m sorry!)

There is an emergency pfa (protection from abuse in place). I have not filed for divorce yet, but I am working on filling out the paperwork for the attorney.

The legal assistant said Ineould be asked questions, and to answer if my attorney did not object. She said to keep my eyes on my attorney. Not to make eye contact with him.

I am almost certain, the other side will try to take the perspective, that s5’s disclosure didn’t happen that I made it up, because I am hurt or vindictive that my husband wanted to separate and divorce before I finish my degree. With that in mind, what kind of questions should I expect?

He may have recorded the last conversation we had, that morning, the same day I had to take S5 in to mandatory report. That conversation is basically him saying he wants to separate, and my begging him not to yet. I knew I had to try to prevent him from getting a quick attorney appointment or filing that morning while S5 and I were at homeschool group. (It was the first day of group and we shouldn’t miss it).

So, I said a lot of things in that conversation that I did not mean at all. My end of the converwas designed to buy me time that day.

I’m trying to think of what the opposing attorney will ask me.

Also, what kinds of things will be decided at the trial? I wish, it were possible to have him removed from the home, so S5 and I can have a place to live. But, CPS says that I am not allowed to be alone with S5 and it may be 4 to 6 months until I am allowed to do that. That’s just crazy I hard to ask that if my sweet friends.

I need to be allowed to go back home to my parents. S5 has doctors appointments in the fall there, crucial ones. The assistant said that would be a big deal. Almost impossible.

I’m so tired. And at the mercy of the court and cps it seems. It is horrific to live through seeing your child be given a rape kit style medical exam. Emotionally, I have no idea how I’m not falling apart, but I’m doing what I have to I guess. One foot in front of the other.

S5 is amazingly resilient. But I can tell, this really did happen to him. He is telling the truth.

Dig

Hi Dig,

I wanted to respond about your son acting out.

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw, but I come from a dysfunctional co-dependent marriage to an alcoholic.  For years I thought I was protecting my son from things going on in the marriage... .keeping my ex's drunken rages directed at me for example.  I realize now that my son's role in our family dynamic was to stay under the (his dad's ) radar.

When I left my marriage my son came with me (saw dad every other weekend).  Once we moved out, he started to show a lot of anxiety, with physical symptoms (stomach issues) that hadn't be en there before.  But what I came to realize was he finally felt safe enough (away from his dad) to express and show his feelings. What I thought was him being okay during the marriage was actually him stuffing alot of feelings. So what I'm getting at is besides going through the trauma it's self, it may also be that he feels safe (away from his dad) to show his feelings.  He just like you he has been living with a lot of tension. 

Certainly don't validate bad behavior, but I would work to validate his feelings.  Your son is going to do what he is going to do just be there for him... .which it sounds like you are    I know everything that is going on is super scary, I don't pretend to know how to negotiate something like this.  But what I do know is you will get through it and so will your son.

Hang in there,
Panda39

Oh thank you, Panda.
Validate the feelings but not the behavior. That’s excellent. I can’t share that too with the couple that is having me.
Thanks you for your sweet note. I am living the “law and order svu” tv show in real life it seems.

And thank you, LNL, for filling me in on the safety of this board. I feel better, and see your point. That makes good sense.

I am thinking “big picture” ahead... .
My husband will likely lose his job, be placed on the sex offender registry, etc,... .
The forensic interviewer said s5’s interview was solid. Her words were “he did well, very very good”. I am reading into that, my husband is done for. High chance of conviction.

That sends my mind into finances and logistics... .
But first, to get through the family court protection order hearing. Ugh... .

Living it in real life is nothing like watching it on tv... .I am amazed I can still breathe, yet there is air. As long as there’s air to breathe, I’ll be ok.

Dig

Dig

When my son was 5, I noticed he was not swimming underwater like the rest of his friends, who had all started swimming at the same time. He was in camp all summer, lots of pool time with swim instructors, but there was nothing but dog paddling when he was with me. I would spend weekends with him at the pool, and tried to teach him but he was scared to put his head under the water. It was real fear.

So I hired a swim instructor who worked with him one-on-one. After one lesson he said, "S5 is a fish."

That little stinker had been snowing me! I spent all summer focused on helping S5 learn how to swim, and it turns out he could swim underwater all along. I asked camp counselors and they seem puzzled -- yes, S5 was a little fish, a good swimmer.

At the time, I thought it was because S5 wanted the special attention from me, that if I knew he could swim I would not spend so much time teaching him to swim. Now that he is grown up (17), he admits he didn't want me to know because he thought I would put him on the swim team. 

Even as close as I was to my son, I did not know the truth.

You cannot say you know what is true or not with your son because he is not you.

And I would not read anything into the forensic interviewer's words -- they are platitudes.

I wouldn't make assumptions that your husband is done for because the investigation has only started.

Big deep breath.

About the couple, I'm confused. Are they gracious or driven nuts? S5 kicked their puppy, is that something happening repeatedly?

Oops, typo in my last post... .can. Not can’t... .can share!
And Idid, this morning.

They are both gracious and driven nuts. They believe in toughen up kind of normal parenting. Be responsible, suck it up, deal with it.

Their one year anniversary is in October... they are young in their ‘marriagr forming’ stage of family development.

So, this positive parenting, validating feelings style of parenting... .this might be the first time they’ve ever seen it in action.

It’s a learning curve for them.

They are both, LNL.

And S5 needs to learn how to. It be afraid of the puppy. Not to squeal and  holler when the puppy wants to jump and lick.
It’s a learning curve for everyone.

Dig

IF it comes up, you can explain it, that you had a pending activity and were simply trying to calm things until a better time.  One conversation does not make a pattern or overall theme.  What if you are asked in court, "Do you want him back?"  What would you say?  I was asked that by my ex's lawyer in my first testimony.  I think he asked hoping I'd say Yes and then he could turn to the judge and remark, "See?  He wants her back under his control!"  Instead, I answered, "No, not the way she is."  He moved on to a different question.

To a certain extent you are catastrophizing.  Yes a big word but not everything is "The sky is falling!" as Chicken Little would feel.  Yes, it's rough right now, but in a few weeks much of this will be over.  Hopefully a lots of your fears will have never seen the light of day.  Your goal now is to strategize, ponder what to do and what to say and how to say it that will help you reach your goals homewise, workwise, familywise, etc.

Although right now the agencies have you on 'lockdown' with lots of rules, much of what they've done is standard officialdom's detailed checklist to avoid things getting worse.  For all you know, this next hearing will have updated reports and recommendations that will loosen the rigid rules you are stuck with currently. So, one of your goals now is to focus on how you can work toward that outcome.

Dig,

What was your takeaway from LnL's story about swimming lessons?

WW

Hi, WW,

I think LNL is advising me not to assume anything, about my husband, or s5, especially at this point. It's only the beginning of the process. Also, that s5 is more capable and resilient than I realize.

I wonder if anybody can describe a family court hearing about a protection order. It's my understanding hat today's hearing is about the charts in the emergency protection order, to determine if they stand or not. But I'm not totally positive.

The legal assistant talked be through answering questions, to only give what was asked, nothing more. So, I'm thinking, this might look like a real court room situation on tv, where people sit beside the judge in a box and are asked questions by the opposing lawyer?

Will child protective services be there? Why is the social worker talking so ugly to me? She is very young, seems proud she has a boyfriend. But speaks angrily, " it will be a very long time  before you're allowed to be alone with your son again, if ever" I don think think I've done anything to be talked to like that, and it is making me cry. It is adding a huge layer of meanness  to deal with on top of what my husband has done.

The legal assistant says, they can't figure out why I am in such hot water with child protective services. I wonder if that 30 second voicemail I accidentally gave my husband this summer, where I was fussing at s5, and spanked him came to light and is part of why cps is nasty?
If so, how do I short answer that one on the stand?

I have kept our family together, for 2 main reasons: to prevent two separate residences in order to protect s5, and to hold off until I finish grad school. But, I am wondering, if my honest answers here will help opposing council, give them too much?

I answer truthfully, with descriptions, justifications, and supporting details, almost like a descriptive writing paper. I'm going to have to think before I answer, slow he conversation down. Can I repeat the question to clarify before I answer? Make sure I underand what he wants?

I'm disappointed that the attorney will only have 30 minutes outside the court room with me to plan a strategy. She is "working me in today b cause she understands how important this is".
What if sh doesn't show? What if she stands me up?

Yep, Forver Dad, I am catastrophizing, I can really feel that. I think some might be that I am in the habit of being prepared for the worst, I will have thought things through, so I can respond instead of react. I look for potholes in the road and make plans to make them smoother. It's catastrophizing and somewhat exhausting.

I wonder, if there are potholes I have not had the foresight to see, to make " smoother"?

Trial is after lunch, early afternoon.

Thank you, everyone.
Dig

Ooh! One more good thing, s5 seems to be adjusting well. And the couple we are staying with are climbing the parenting learning curve in earnest. They are readers and problem solvers, and see their own therapists. The husband came back with a bucket of modeling clay for s5 after seeing his counselor yesterday. So yay, progress!

I’m saying that you cannot know what is true with your 5 year old child. It’s important you understand this. Does it make sense what I’m saying, Dig? He is separate from you, so of course you (all of us who are parents) can only know so much about what our child experienced.
There are 3 possible scenarios in a child sexual abuse allegation.

One is that the child is reporting what happened accurately.
Two is that the child is reporting falsely.
Three is that the child is being coached to report falsely.

The only truth you could know for certain is if you coached him. The other two you cannot know.

Does that make sense?

You have said that you know what happened to S5. I would walk that comment back because it demonstrates an inability to discern what you can know and not know about something your S5 experiences.

It could be why you are being treated the way you are by the social worker.

I would tell them that you could be wrong about what happened, because that’s the truth.

It’s true that my son claimed he could not swim. It is true he could swim. It is true that I did not know the truth until there was light shone on the situation.

Ah... .I see, LNL.   Thank you for explaining.  That makes sense.  

I know that I did not coach him to report falsely.
I did coach him that his parts belonged to him, the exact names, and to tell me as soon as we were by ourselves if anyone had touched his parts, made him touch there's, or even see each other's. (all along, but not anywhere recently)

So, when I thought there was a possibility my husband coached him to say those things, and spent a night wrestling with what was true, and what I should do, that's my now knowing for sure.

In the days since I took him to social services and reported, s5's behaviors indicate that he may be telling the truth. My heart has hurt a little more each time he has done something at suggests he is telling the truth.

Thanks so much for talking me through my words.
Dig

Do you mean that you have these coaching conversations with him regularly?

Just to make sure we're following how things unfolded (there are a lot of moving parts and I have a hard time with timelines - dyslexia with dates/times).

Mon 8/27


It was Mon night when H touched S5.

S5 mentions it the next day.

Tues 8/28


Does CPS know about that recording and what happened that night?

Wed 8/29


Ah, ok. I see. S5 told you what happened to him Monday night, but you didn't have indisputable evidence (it was just S5 showing you where it happened, recorded on audio/video). So you left him at home with his dad Wed because of what an attorney told you a few years ago, that you needed proof. Leaving him home Wednesday night was to help you get proof?


Your attorney said there had to be indisputable evidence of molestation. Without that evidence, you could not get full joint custody (I'm guessing you mean full sole custody?)



There wasn't any evidence, though, or am I missing something?

Thurs 8/30

I guess they don't know what happened on Monday... .

How did CPS respond when you told them you waited to report because you thought H had coached S5 to tell you that he (H) had sexually molested his son?




Does CPS know that your H had a conversation with you Thursday morning to announce his intentions to file for divorce?


Has your H recorded your conversations before?

After he told you about the divorce, you and S5 went to homeschool group (important first meeting), got lunch, then filed the report?



Or was it Friday that you reported?

Fri 8/31


You reported to CPS on Friday and then an emergency protection order was granted, then you moved in with friends?


And then today is the hearing to determine whether it holds or not?


It sounds like they have a lot of things to sort through, and want to understand what's going on.

I have to admit I'm having a hard time following myself. Do you wonder if your coaching of S5 about his private parts has encouraged him to give you information in order to make you happy?

Thank you thank you, LNL!

I am waiting on the attorneys. This is tremendously helpful.

I will sort it all out for the thread when I get to my laptop later

The scenarios LnL painted, child reporting accurately, child reporting falsely, child reporting falsely after being coached, don't quite explicitly explain another scenario I had in mind as a possibility after reading LnL's swimming story.  That is the possibility of the child, not having been coached explicitly, trying to help out a favored parent who he perceives as under threat, because that parent perceives a threat.  I've been in that situation as an adult victim, where it's clear what answer might help my protector to protect me more, and it took a bunch of adult maturity and integrity to say that the particular harm I was being asked about didn't happen.  Kids don't have that maturity.  One of the things that makes these situations so, so difficult is that when we are legitimately distressed about awful stuff in our marriage, our kids pick up on that even when we don't intend to send them messages.  Does that make sense?  I'm out here on the Internet, and won't pretend to know what happened, but since the situation is so complex and the stakes so high, wanted to share with you what I know about the potential dynamics at play.

RC

I reported to the cops what D6  (then D just about to turn 3) said to me about my ex-BIL (then 17).  

Little D said "butt" rather than the appropriate term.  She meant her vagina area.  We corrected the fact that we didn't teach the kids proper body part terms as young as possible. I know D5 got it from your H, I'm offering this to any parent in general. 

The cops made a referral to CPS anyway. I agree that CPS can be scary.  Upon my "exit interview" (I chose to meet the SS downtown rather than talking to get on the phone like my ex chose to... .I wanted to get a read on her on person and vice versa), it concluded with a bit so thinly veiled threat,  "we're closing the case for now but could reopen it very easily." Bureaucrat Speak... .give me a break. And,  "if you and their mom don't keep the kids safe,  we can remove them from your custody."  

That they said you aren't allowed unsupervised time must be hurtful and maybe scary,  but at least you are with your son.  

As for how this will unfold,  it's hard to say.  My kids (S was 5 at the time) told the cops differently than they did me (and their mom I later found out from her... .she hid things from me for months). We took our daughter to be examined as you did and just realizing that such places exist was horrific to me.  They told us that without physical evidence, they couldn't conclude anything.  Thus the cops dropped the criminal investigation  (my talk with CPS was the end of it).


Regarding your son's behaviors, are your friends aware of what happened specifically? It seems odd that CPS is telling you that you can't see your son unsupervised but there isn't an enforceable protocol in place.  

Each agency has its own fiefdom:

Police will deal with an ongoing incident, try to get compliance but will stop short of enforcing an order.  I had that happen to me, I was told to "fix it at court".

Hospitals and other medical care facilities such as urgent care also deal with the incident at hand.  My ex had our son down at the local children's hospital several times with her typical "my son told me... ."  Only one time did an ER doctor call me.  My son was still there and I commended her for contacting me, I explained my ex had a pattern of trying to make me look bad with all those visits.  She replied, "No, this is ER, this call is NOT about the history, we need to know what you drugged your child with so we can determine how to address the reported symptoms."  It turned out to be absolutely no concern to the ER staff, but I was so jaded that they never clued me in before, that was the only time I got to see my son while he was still there.  Usually I had to check with their medical records department to ascertain if anything had happened since my last inquiry.  In time they got to recognize me.  They must have felt sorry for me since I generally got copies without paying the usual copying fees.

CPS deals with allegations that could turn out to be 'substantive' child abuse, neglect or endangerment.  In my case they were all closed, though one did rigger an investigation before also being closed.  It was the one written report I received, I did request it but it was a form listing "unsubstantiated".  IMO, one spanking incident doesn't rise to the level of being 'actionable'.  Maybe they jumped in with strict rules for you because they didn't know the entire situation at first.  Hopefully there will be enough information presented at court to loosen the restrictions on you.

However, if court appears to be throwing the book at you, or continuing to do so, then you may want to ask them for some sort of evaluation, observing your relationship with your child in sessions, more than a couple interviews that are more like snapshots.  That way they can verify your child feels safe and relaxed with you and that you're not a risk to him.

Another thought, if they are wanting to order parenting classes, on the surface that's fine, in most courts including mine, it is standard for all divorcing parents to be required to attend those classes.  So no big deal to take parenting classes.  But get the order to state that both parents are required to take those classes.  That way it can't ever be claimed you were singled out for bad behavior.  Is your case separate from your spouse's case?  I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how that is handled but if you can't get that inclusive wording then at least try for the court to include something essentially like, "All parents in this court are ordered to take parenting classes.  Mother is ordered to attend parenting classes but since Father's case is separate, his orders are not included here."  Does that make sense?  What you don't want is to appear singled out for substantive misbehavior.

Hi Dig,

I have been thinking of you and praying for you. I know this is a very difficult situation you are in. I am sorry to hear that the social worker is being ugly to you. The last one I had, when I made a report to CPS because my h was under the influence of amphetamines and had run off with my son, was also young and had a very aggressive bulldog demeanor. She treated me as if I was the one being investigated, even though I had made the report. It was very frustrating and upsetting. I really feel for you because you have been through so much already, and having someone talk bad to you and treat you as if you had done something to deserve restrictions around your own child is very humiliating and adds a level of stress on top of an already stressful situation.
           

My guess is that CPS placed these restrictions on you because you did not immediately report to either their agency or to law enforcement. As I have said before, I understand your reasons for waiting, but CPS tends to have black-and-white thinking when it comes to things like this. Also, as I have said before, I cannot speak for all CPS personnel but in my experience most of them are less interested in facts and more interested in fault finding and use threats (either veiled or overt), coercion, manipulation, and abuse of power. My experience with CPS could be paralleled to my experience in an abusive relationship. It's quite scary.

It is good that you have a lawyer that was retained by you and not court-appointed. Perhaps your lawyer will be able to negotiate a lift on the supervisory restrictions. They may want you to participate in parenting classes, and as mentioned before, those would probably be necessary in a divorce as well. In my state, the parenting classes for CPS cases and the parenting classes for divorce are different, and the divorce classes cannot be substituted for the CPS requirement. Not sure about the other way around. The classes I took focused on a "nurturing parent" approach and were conducted at the local child abuse prevention center. They may also want you to put s5 in trauma-focused therapy for kids, which will probably include play therapy due to his age, and may want you to attend some type of support group for parents of abused children. Just speculating based on what I have seen both in my experience and other people I have talked to who have been through a CPS investigation.

No matter what anyone says to you Dig, hold to your truth, which is that you know in your heart that every decision you made was based on what would be best for you and your child. You have been striving to form a plan that would provide the most safety and security for you and s5, and you have done an excellent job functioning under such extremely difficult conditions. You were taking action long ago to plan a safe exit. From what I have seen you writing on these boards, you are a conscientious, loving and attentive mother.

Here is a verse that I hold on to when I feel like the enemy is attacking me with regards to my children:

"Even the captives of the mighty will be taken, and the prey of the tyrant shall be rescued, for I will contend with those who contend with you, and I will save your children."  (Isaiah 49:25)

Praying that you receive strength, comfort, and peace, Dig.

Redeemed

Thank you all.  I have been catching up reading all the kind words and support here while I’m falling asleep. I spent the day “earning my keep”’so to speak. I spent the day cleaning house for the couple who rescued us. I want to write more, starting with LNL’s awesome timeline and questiones. I’m just so so tired.  I will be up early hopefully and can write before S5 wakes up.
Dig

Thanks for the update.  Let us know about LnL's questions when you have a quiet moment.

RC

Continues from my answer to LNL’s post... .

We had not been around his dad all day, his dad was out of town for work. We had all day Tuesday by ourselves and it was a good day. S5 is a happy kid. I do peaceful parenting, along the lines of Rebecca Eanes book, “positive parenting” and Lori Petro’s website, “Teach through Love”. I’m mostly always happy with S5. It’s been this way since he was a baby; I did a lot of “attachment parenting” nurturing things, like babywearing, in woven wraps, with him on my back. He sometimes took a nap on my back while we were grocery shopping, or while I fixed supper.

But S5 is definitely at the age to prefer his daddy and has, quite frequently, as in, most every time his daddy was home from work. Which is ok! That’s good for a boy to love his daddy.

I need to write more, Turkish, Redeemed, Forever Dad... .your posts are SO encouraging and helpful. I have read them just before falling asleep each night.

I am cleaning house, doing light farm chores, grad school, homeschool Kindergarten, and working on attorney divorce papers. I apologize, I will write more when I can.
There’s a lot of assignments, quiz, reading, etc due tomorrow.

Dig

I’m sorry, I answered LNL’s questions in the quote.  Hopefully, it will make sense whose lines are whose?
Dig

What did he say specifically? My D2 told me "uncle 'Billy' touched my butt."  That isn't molestation but she said it when I was putting diaper cream on her private area which was red.  I had been figuring diaper rash. She indicated it in a way associated with her discomfort.

We stressed to the kids that touching in certain ways is ok if a medical necessity or helping with the bathroom. 

Turkish, the answer to your question is... .well, super detailed and specific... .the worst of his words were, " daddy put his penis in my ass". ( I had taught him to say bottom, so he word ass is odd). It doesn't get more specific than that. And he said it while showing me where it happened, and he showed me where daddy put him laying face down on the living room floor, showed me where daddy was, behind him, and THEN said the quote above. I asked him, on video, "by any chance do you remember what daddy was wearing?" And s5 said, " he was all naked, and he made me all naked".
The forensic interviewer said, "we got it... .he did really really well".
So... .that's pretty specific, right? With the right words?
Ugh... my heart is just in knots repeating it. I would like to never have to repeat those words ever again, but something tells me, the attorneys will make me.
Dig

Redeemed, thank you for the Bible verses... .I like those to repeat to myself and songs too.
I'm sorry we have both been through this. But knowing that you did and it will be ok eventually, that's encouraging to me.

Dig

That's pretty darn specific, and horrifying. I'm sorry that you and he are going though this... .

Dig, thanks for answering the questions, and for the updates.  Keep us posted.

RC

That's what he told you Tuesday night?

Yes, that's part of what he told me Tuesday night, the worst of what s5 said.  S5's words were so specific and so detailed, I wrestled with whether or not this was another one of those things his daddy coached him to say to me.

This incident came after a period of time where s5 had been taught the say things to me. But s5 has always told me the truth about the origin of those things, that's his daddy taught him to say them. 

I think it was Tuesday night, when we were walking from the van to the house,

I told s5, "thank you for telling me, that I believed him, but needed to ask,  did your daddy tell you to say these things to me? Are you obeying him, telling me this?"

S5's answer was, "No!  I'm disobeying him by telling you"

That's when I opened the house door, turned on the video on my phone, and asked him to show me where it happened, and got the graphic, clear statement from s5 that I answered for Turkish.

S5's disclosure began in the van, on the way home, into the house, and ended in the living room. S5 started talking in the van with his usual phrase, "mommy I need to tell you something... .last night, while you were gone, daddy... etc." I quickly turned on the audio recorder I wear. I need to go back and listen, what he said first, but part of it was what daddy made him wear, (a tank top and underwear).

I wonder, how severely questioned I will be about this in court, or will the recording I took suffice?

Is there a court hearing scheduled?

How is S5 doing

I think there is a court hearing scheduled, but I'm not sure when or what.   At the emergency protection order hearing, my husband's attorneys called mine, and said they were not going to contest the emergency protection order, and for things to stay exactly as they are, until they are more prepared, ready, for ... .I'm not sure exactly, the next hearing?  It was a later date in September.  I couldn't really hear, because the attorneys were at the judges booth by themselves, and I was sitting much further back, in the second row of the general seating, back behind the jury section.  So that's a question for my attorney... .what the next hearing is about. 

I think there will be a criminal hearing, based on s5's forensic interview. 

s5 is doing tremendously well, all things considered.  We are together, and that is huge for him.  The couple we are staying with is aware of the CPS restrictions on us not being alone together, so we try to be together in the house, or the barn, or wherever at all times.  That's hard on all of us, but we are diligent about it. 

My attorney thinks the restriction is extremely uncalled for, and a hardship that is unnecessary.  She had me go down to social services to sign a release of information, so she could talk to someone about our case, to try to get that restriction lifted as soon as possible.

S5 loves the couple we are with.  The farm, the animals, riding with them on the 4 wheeler from the house to the barn, that's awesome to him.  S5 is allowed to go with them on some of the safer farm chores, and with some of their hobby activities, like metal detecting, around the farm. 

They do not have children, and their 1 year anniversary is soon, next month.  So, s5's typical behaviors like, interrupting, talking loud, contradicting, and tantrums, are well, trying for them.  I have tried to gently tell s5, we are guests, and to be polite.  S5 is climbing the steep learning curve of house guest manners as a 5 year old.  I hope they don't ask us to leave.  We have our own space upstairs, so I'm trying to keep us there as much as possible. 

The driving to town part, for s5's typical activities is nearly impossible.  So, we won't do those things for a while.  Since I am not allowed to be alone with him, that means I'd have to have one of them ride with us, or pay someone to come with me, or to sit with him at the farmhouse while I go to town to see the attorney, and for court; that is hard. 

So, I have decided, we will stay put, miss a few weeks of activities and do what we can at the farmhouse.  For now.  But this can't stay so restricted forever.

dig 

I've never heard of something like that, restrictions to prevent mom/child from being together, without supervision, during a CPS investigation. Do you have any sense of why CPS is insisting on it?

Even if you didn't mandatory report right away, that doesn't seem like a plausible reason for making sure you're never alone with S5. Does your L have a theory for why that restriction is in place?

That's just the concern my attorney and her assistant brought up.  They do not understand the reasoning either, and think it is unjustified.  The social worker is very very young, unmarried.  My attorney brought this up, and told me she needed me to go down to social services and sign a release of information so that she could go talk to them; she said, this safety plan seems entirely unjustified, and that she was going to go down there and try to do something about it.

*mod*

This thread has been locked due to reaching the post limit.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329093.0;all