BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone,

So I still haven't made contact with uBPDh since the incident last Sat.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329199.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329199.0)

I have slipped and read the texts. I did that because my sister called me and said that uBPDh had called her, and she didn't know how he got her phone number.

I went back and looked at the texts from him and found one that said that my messages were coming through on our joint FB page, and he asked for the password to our FB account (which I don't remember.)

That FB account is linked to my phone number and I used to use it for messenger, but now I have a messenger account set up in just my name, not our joint account.

Not too long ago, when he tried calling me on messenger, he said he was able to view all the phone calls I had made that day.

I don't know if any of this is making sense, because I'm not big on tech stuff, but is it possible that he is able to view my messenger and sms since my number is linked to the joint FB account, even if I use a different messenger? Could that be how he got my sister's number? I did have it where my sms messages showed up in messenger, but I turned that off yesterday just in case.

I don't know how long this no contact will go on. I don't know how long it should
go on. I don't know what the next step is, and I feel stuck. I don't know what to do next. I feel angry, sad, guilty, and scared. I don't know if I am being mean by not communicating at all. I don't know if I would be putting myself under too much pressure if I resumed contact, even attempting low contact, because there is no low contact with him. He wants nothing less than total enmeshment. I want safety for my physical, mental and emotional well being, and for s2 as well.

One of the last texts accused me of silent treatment because I didn't get my way. And that struck a nerve because part of the reason I stopped contact was because I am angry. Angry at being abused yet again.

I don't know where to go from here, and I don't like feeling this way and I don't like not knowing what to do. It feels kind of the same thing I went through when I first left last November, and I went NC for three months.

Eventually I let my feelings get to me, and I resumed contact, and the next thing you know I'm giving, giving, giving again... .and my savings dwindled and my time was being taken up and I was not happy with it. I felt like I was being sucked dry of all the energy I had managed to replenish in the months I went NC. 

And now I feel drained and worn down again, and depression is settling in and I just don't know what to do.

I feel stuck.

Redeemed

It's been nearly a week since you've spoken with him after the incident where he tussled with you as you were leaving. Somehow he found your sister's phone number and called her, so you looked at the texts trying to figure out how he did that.

He's trying to get access to you through social media and you're not sure how secure your phone records are. I'm no good with tech, so I hope someone else can answer your questions here.

At the moment, you feel stuck and you're having a variety of feelings, feeling sad about the direction this relationship has taken, fearful about his behavior, guilty about not communicating with him and angry about how his behavior impacts you and the children.

You're wondering how long you should continue NC, but if you resume LC, you think he'll overwhelm you like he did last year, where he took up all your time and depleted your savings.

Right now you don't have a plan and you're feeling drained, exhausted and depressed.

What are your overarching goals for your children and yourself? If he doesn't seek mental health treatment, what role can you envision that he could have in your son's life in the future?

I applaud you for taking a break.

I would encourage you (because of some practicalities) to move to "LC".

"Hey... .after recent events, I took time to care for my feelings" (don't address this further... .don't ever apologize)

"I will swing by your work tomorrow (or today) and pick up the title.  Is the title at your work?"

Then... only discuss the title.  if he has it somewhere else "Please bring the title to work, I'll be by tomorrow to pick it up.   I won't deal with other issues while you are holding the title."

(notice... .this is very factual stuff... .I realize you are worn out and don't have time for validation... soothing and other gymnastics.)

Big picture:  I'm worried about your temp tags wearing out.  I'm worried about your coolant getting low (please youtube how to check it when the engine is cool)

If he blows off your one day notice for the title... .then I think you are ready to do a threat and then take action about the title.

   

Listen... .you need to cut all ties with technology with him.  We can help you with that.

I'm assuming you are a gmail person.  If not... become one.  get a "hardened" password.  If you are a gmail person... .change your password.

Then get a google voice number.  Play around with it some, especially from the computer (practice texting some of your trusted friends)

Then... .give him that number as the way you will contact him. 

I think you are going to need to eventually change your phone number and/or get a new "real" cell phone number.

I wish I was better on the messenger thing... I'm not a fan of facebook... .so I'm not that tech savvy with it.

Good job protecting yourself... .there are practicalities you need to move forward on.  I hope and pray it is clear to you now... that he isn't going to be reasoned with


FF

Cat,

My goals for me and my children involve us living back under the same roof together in a safe and abuse-free environment where drama, mind games and trauma have no place. If he does not get sufficient treatment for mental health and to untangle the ingrained patterns of abusive behavior, I can imagine that he will not be able to contribute to a safe environment for anyone close to him.

I talked to his mother. She said she is afraid for me because of the way he is acting and she said I should get a court order for him to have supervised visits with s2, that don't involve me being alone with him, and I should change my number and move to another county.

She recognizes his behavior as being eerily similar to that of his father, who is now deceased. UBPDh's father continued to stalk and harass his mother after their divorce. He would sit on the hill and watch her house, and sometimes come and bang on the door in the middle of the night demanding to know what man was over there. He assaulted her after the divorce. That may have been the time he broke her eye socket, when she had to have surgery. He also used the children as a means to further harm her, as he fought her for custody in the divorce claiming that she was financially unable to care for them, and since his extensive criminal history prevented him from having a chance at custody, he enlisted his parents to fight for the children and they were awarded custody. That is why uBPDh was raised by his grandparents. It took over ten years for his mother to get her oldest two back, and she never got custody back of uBPDh.

MIL said uBPDh considers me and s2 to be possessions, not people.

FF,

I did text about the title, so I guess I technically was not complete NC. However, I backed out of going by to get it yesterday) not that I expected him to have it at work or give it to me. I had a severe anxiety attack at the thought of interacting with him face to face. That is another reason I feel stuck- I feel like I am allowing him to intimidate me again, and I have all this fear and anxiety surfacing from the trauma of what I experienced before.

Also-

I pulled out the copy of my protective order to read it again. I had selected the option to allow contact when I applied for it, because of s2. In reading it again, I noticed that there is a stamp on the second page that says NO CONTACT. I didn't notice it when I got the copy of it some months ago. So now I don't know if that means the judge ordered no contact even though I didn't request it and now I don't know if I am supposed to even contact him at all, because if I go against what the protective order says then it doesn't serve its purpose- to protect me.

I am considering taking the protective order to the dv office downtown, where there are law enforcement and personnel who assist with filing protective orders and asking them to tell me if this means nc or not. If anything were to happen and I had to call police, I don't want them telling me I don't have a leg to stand on if I was allowing contact when the judge ordered no contact.

And yes, I am worried about the tags. My roommate's bf will help me check the coolant, I am sure, or one of the guys I work with, if I can't figure out how to do it by watching the video. UBPDh did fill it up last week before the incident, and he filled up the reserve as well.

He told his mom he is holding the title until I fix the vehicle, because his son is riding in it and he has a right to make sure it is safe. What the crap ever.

Thanks for your help guys,

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Redeemed,
Living with all your children in a safe environment is a very worthy goal and you are taking steps in that direction.    Unfortunately it appears unlikely that he is motivated enough to join you in that objective.

His mother is offering you good advice and she has certainly witnessed the familial pattern and some very undesirable personal consequences.

Your idea of having experienced eyes look at your protective order is a good one. And asking for law enforcement assistance in obtaining your title might be enough motivation for him to surrender it. At this point, he's certainly not wanting to return to jail. And the behavior you experienced last week would likely be enough for him to do so.

This isn't going to be pleasant for you, Redeemed, as you don't want to hurt him in any way. However, he's putting you and your children's future at risk and he seems to have no care nor consideration for anything but his own desires.

Cat

Redeemed, it is truly ironic how our BPD partners can turn things around and make us look like the crazy one.  My uBPD/uNPD H cycles back and forth.  He can rage at me one evening, withhold affection all night by sleeping on the couch (also silent treatment), then be back in our bed the next night.  I called it "mood swinging" and he shot back that I was bipolar.  

I have found pwBPD have outrageous double standards.  Looking at my FIL (who is, IMO, uNPD), I see just how messed up H is and I feel sorry for him, but that stops when H dysregulates and punches holes in walls or destroys furniture.

In the meantime, please, if you have not already done so--take the MOSAIC test on domestic violence.  Cat Familiar suggested I do this and my results were disturbing.   I also suggest reading the book, "The Gift of Fear."  It discusses the ineffectiveness of restraining orders.

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Survival-Signals-Violence/dp/0440226198

https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

Most of all, take care of yourself and your loved ones.  

OK... .good on coolant.  Stay on top of that... protect your investment.

Would a friend or roommate go inside the business to get the title?   I understand the face to face part being iffy.

Please don't pay attention to his "reasoning"... it's a hook... .it's hooking you.


Good call on discussing the order with authorities. 

Listen... this title issue is a "dysfunctional too" that he is using on you with great effect.  As a practical matter... .I want to "take that tool away from him"... .or "beat him with it".  Quickly.

Either way it takes away the power.

What would your life be like... .if the title was "solved" one way or the other?

Think back to Skips advice about lost title with the owner "getting you past the drama"?  Now that you have experienced life without taking Skips advice... .what do you think of the advice?

My advice:  If no title in two days... .start using authorities to get the title... .AND start process to do lost title with the seller.  Take away the dysfunctional tool

Never again let him control something like this that you value... .

FF

FF,

I was trying to do this without contacting the seller, even though Skip's advice is logically probably the best choice. I have dysfunctional behaviors of my own which influence my decision making, and I am aware of this though I don't always push myself to overcome them.

Reasons why I didn't take the most logical advice yet:

1. I have really bad social anxiety especially with making phone calls, which is weird and lots of people don't understand and sounds silly when I talk about it, but... .as I told my MIL, the thought of calling this (very nice) man and basically telling him that I'm an idiot for trusting this other idiot and now I don't have the perfectly good title he put in the van when he sold it to me just sends me into a wave of anxiety that I am avoiding because that is my dysfunctional response to things that produce anxiety. 

2. I was hoping that I could just get this title back somehow because that is the quickest route. The seller is in another state, which would require him mailing in the form to the county clerk's office here, then waiting for the title to be mailed to him, then mail it to me. Tags need to be gotten ASAP


I did take a very big step today. I called the director of the domestic violence resource center. This is not the same woman who is over the dv shelter here in town, so I decided to give it a chance and call. HUGE step as I mentioned earlier my anxiety with talking to people. She gave me some great info, and explained more in detail about what the protective order means regarding contact. I told her my fears about not being able to enforce the order if it's stamped NO CONTACT and I was allowing contact. She said if I checked the box on the form to allow contact because of our son, then the NC applies to him, not me- I can allow contact but he cannot attempt to force contact or harass me, and she also said that the incident with him taking my purse and keys out of the car because he was angry that I was leaving when he did not want me to leave is a violation of the order. She also said that the title thing is a violation of the order and that if I want to I can file a report right now that will issue a warrant for his arrest for violating the protective order.

Of course, as you mentioned, Cat, that is not something I want to do or look forward to doing. But I may have to.

I am trying to channel my inner Lioness. I am just so sick and tired of this type of treatment , and I am also frustrated that my response to it is one of fear. All my life I felt fear when people with stronger personalities bullied or intimidated me, and I learned from watching my father verbally abuse my mother that there is a certain powerlessness that comes from being the one who is bullied. That mindset has stuck with me and has greatly influenced my belief system, thought patterns and behavior.

In a fight/flight/freeze situation, I am more naturally inclined to flee or freeze. How do I train myself to fight?

Asking Why,

I did do the Mosaic at Cat's suggestion. My score was 9 out of 10 for risk of harm.

I will look for that book you suggested. I have never heard of it. Protective orders seem to serve more as proof that the victim has taken steps to protect himself/herself more than it is an actual deterrent for offenders to repeat abusive behavior. I mean, if the threat of going to jail for breaking the law in the first place isn't enough for someone to not harm someone else, then obviously that person is lacking in self control and judgment.

Going to check out the Google voice thing now. And change my gmail password.

Thanks everyone,

Redeemed

Hey... .thoughts on 2 days?  Push yourself either way... .either I have the title in my hand... or... .

Thoughts?  One step at a time.

Or... .if it feels better to contact the seller... then do that.  My reticence here is that I suspect (but don't know) that there is a big process here that might delay tags...

You can do this. 

FF

Hey Redeemed,
I can totally related to the social anxiety. Fortunately I'm no longer plagued with it, but it was a real impediment for a long time in my life.

Like you, I had jobs waiting tables. That was OK because there was a set procedure and I just did that. But on the nights where I had to hostess and greet customers and chat them up (that was expected at one place I worked--trying to have a very personal connection with locals in our small community--ugh--the anxiety and self consciousness that ensued on those nights!)

I guess what finally got me through this was life. I ended up having to do so many things I thought were seemingly impossible that I just got over the self consciousness. And another part was that I just gave up caring if people liked me or not. I figured about 33% of the population would like me, 33% would immediately dislike me without any evidence one way or another, and 33% would just be uninterested in me no matter what.

So I thought those odds were pretty good that one out of three people would find me enjoyable and friendly, so I thought I'd just concentrate on those folks and not care about the rest.

It's great that you contacted the DV director and got some good info about your options.    Think options. That gives you room to move. You may not want to use strategies that are within your rights or you may decide that's appropriate, based upon the circumstances. Information is power. 

Cat

Oh and I bet your inner lioness comes out quickly when you need to defend your child. She's there. You just have to call upon her. 

Redeemed,

Good for you for taking the step of calling the dv resource center! You had bad experiences before that make it hard for you to talk to them again. And you pushed through and did it.

One of the things that helped me start making the steps was listening to "Fight Song" by Rachel Platten and "Brave" by Sara Bareilles - and walking.

It's just one step at a time. Stay safe. Sometimes, it helps to think of the children first.

I looked up the requirements for filing lost title in my state. It's a long process due to the use of snail mail. If he still lived here, it would be easier.

I like the two days thing. If I were to need to use the threat of filing a report, I am sure he would probably deny that his actions violated it. He has already done mental gymnastics to deny it's validity.

I don't even know why I have such social anxiety. Maybe it comes from being alone so much as a kid. I spent more time reading than interacting with other people. I didn't grow up with neighbors, we lived in the country. I didn't go out to play with other kids every day, and I didn't have other kids in my household. I learned to be quiet and stay out of the way.

I may visit the dv resource center tomorrow for more information. The lady said they would lay out options that I have available and let me make my own choices because I have been controlled by someone else enough. I almost cried when she said that.

Thanks for your support everyone.

Redeemed

Does he listen to his Mom?  You MIL?

How far of a drive would it be to pick her up?

Do you have others (room mate) or other friends that could help... perhaps drive MIL?

I'm trying to figure out a plan that gets someone other than you in front of him to get the title... or help him understand this is a big deal to "steal" the title.


FF

FF,

Sometimes he does listen to MIL and sometimes he doesn't. He says that her bitterness and anger towards his father clouds her judgment and keeps her from treating him like a son, because she relates his behavior to his father's (which from every story I have heard from MIL and step-MIL is very, very, similar, though they both claim FIL was worse).

One of his texts did say that he talked to his mother and she told him to give it back, and that I could "bring s2 and pick it up" after he got off work, which would mean at his hotel room, and that situation would no doubt invite a number of things to happen that I would not want.

The thing is, he has said a number of times that he realizes it was wrong to take it, that he would give it back, but every time he has had the chance he has chosen to not return it. I think the pull of having the "dysfunctional control tool" versus "doing the right thing" is too strong for him to resist. He would rather have control (or even the illusion of it) than to do things another way. There is probably a whole disordered pd reason for that on top of the belief system that causes him to feel like he has the right to mistreat or abuse people. Whatever. Not my problem. No title, that's my problem.

I can't think of anyone who would have enough influence to make him give the title back to me, unless maybe his boss. Or a person with a badge. And he is such a master manipulator that he can convince people that he had other intentions for holding on to it than just to use as leverage against me, and he has no doubt started laying that plan out to everyone he works with. Setting me up to look like the crazy, unstable one if I come in there with even a hint of frustration on my face about the stress and trouble he has caused me.

He said he confessed everything he did Sat night to an elder at church, and that he owes me another purse because mine broke when he grabbed it. He didn't say what that elder said about him taking the title to my van. Probably because he left that part out.

His mother said today that she has tried to talk to him but he doesn't get what she is trying to say. Mainly, because it isn't what he wants to hear. He wants someone to agree with his view that Scripture says that the wife and children belong with the husband- apparently, regardless of what the husband has done in the past or the danger that the same behavior could be repeated in the future. Getting better is a process, he says. I guess he doesn't care if his "process" might include "mistakes" that could cause further harm to me.

Have y'all ever seen the movie "Shrek"? Where Lord Farquad is setting up a tournament for the knights to compete in to see who will win the "honor" of embarking on the quest to rescue Princess Fiona- so Lord Farquad can marry her? And he says "some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make."

That is the attitude uBPDh has regarding me. He wants his comfort, which is to have me and s2 back. If there is a sacrifice to make, such as me possibly being harmed again due to one of his "mistakes"- well, he's willing to take that chance, because the risk isn't his.

He called his sister after calling his mother. He is searching for someone who will tell him he is right. Anyone who disagrees will be painted black and deemed untrustworthy.

I can't predict what he might do on any given day at any given moment, so I will just play the card of "I'm coming to get the title at your work, bring it with you." Next step, I will explain to his boss exactly why I haven't scheduled the repair or asked him anything further about it- h has title and won't give it back. If that doesn't work, then I will probably call the seller. If he won't help- then the last, most drastic thing is file a report, which will result in uBPDh's arrest.

I could really be spending my time doing so many more things than this. Never ever ever again. He will not get anywhere near anything of mine that has value anymore. I don't care how much he seems to be doing better.

Redeemed

Hi Redeemed,

I only occasionally post on the relationship boards, but did want to pop in about the title and tags on the van.

I'm going to be blunt, and say your husband is using the title as a way to engage you in drama, and you are being an active participant.  Can you recognize that what you have written above are excuses? You say you need the tags ASAP yet you are pussy footing around with your husband for the title when you could have gone to the buyer or your DMV or whoever else and already gotten this if not completed at least in process.  Instead you are dancing around in circles making no progress.  It takes two to tango and as long as you keep doing the same dance you will have the same result.

You can not control what he does with his copy of the title, you can only control what you do and your actions.  You can keep chasing him while he waves the title at you or you can take the steps you need to, in order to get your own copy.

Panda39

Yes, Panda, I am painfully aware of this.

Said another way, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."  That's a favorite one quoted in the AA/NA meetings.

I meet with my T next week. I think it's time to go back on my antidepressant/anti-anxiety medication. The tendency to avoid and isolate are growing stronger, and I am struggling to concentrate, make decisions and think clearly.

Today is an especially hard day, as it is the four year anniversary of my father's death. My father was a difficult man. He was verbally and emotionally abusive, and I believe he suffered from high anxiety and depression years before he was diagnosed with dementia. However, he had a rough start in life himself, as he lost both his parents by age 2. His older brothers and sisters raised him, during the Great Depression. I believe that he loved me the best he knew how, even if he didn't really know how to have healthy relationships with people.
I do miss him.

Redeemed

Very very good discussion going on about control of others for anyone that happens to pass through this thread.

Also... I think we are really fleshing things out for I Am Redeemed.

Sometimes the points we make on here are simplistic... .overly so sometimes, in order to make a point.  Sometimes I make "over the top examples"... again... to illustrate a point.

So... 100% correct that none of us "control" another.

However we do influence others through our actions, reactions and words (other things as well)

The drama is not so much that he has the title and that I Am Redeemed is chasing it (although that is part)... .it is that it is going "unsolved".

Said another way... .a choice hasn't been forced.

I Am Redeemed can't force him to do anything... .but she can "force a choice".  Yes... hubby deciding to hide and go NC is a choice that she may force (and a bazillion other choices as well).

Then... .we all have the ability to let natural consequences "influence" other people.

The entire point of me giving a two day deadline (the exact time doesn't matter) is that a choice will be forced.

Either there is a title in hand or (police contacted, lost title app submitted, no more contact with hubby... I could go on)

Thoughts?

FF

So sorry, Redeemed! Those anniversary dates can be very painful, but time smoothes them over after some years. Today is the anniversary of my mother's death too. She's been gone 15 years. I think she decided to depart on the last day of summer because she dreaded the cold short days of winter. I know she loved me the best she could and I love her memory--not so much about how she behaved toward me, but the love underneath the dysfunctional behavior--that I know to have been sincere and true.

You're a very intelligent, very strong woman who has been pushed and pulled so hard, but is keeping true to her values. Yes, depression and anxiety can creep in and sometimes it is helpful to get a bit of biochemical support during these difficult times. Few people have gone through the trials by fire that you know so well.

Some years from now, you'll look back at this chapter of your life with a smile and have compassion and admiration for the younger version of yourself, remembering how strong you had to be and how you were tested time and time again and how you stayed on course, no matter how difficult it was.

Thanks Cat

So sorry about your mom. That's a terribly hard thing to go through. You said she "decided"... .I apologize if I have missed this or forgotten, but am I correct that she ended her life?

My mother attempted suicide when I was two. She survived, barely, but she suffered a stroke and permanent brain injury as a result and remained disabled for the rest of her life.

Another reason why I try to stay on top of my own mental health.

Both my parents, I believe, loved me under the dysfunction. However, I do not want to settle for that kind of love with my kids. I want to be the one who breaks the dysfunctional chain in my family. I don't want my kids to have to search for the sincere love underneath. I want it to be unmistakable, clear, expressed often in word and deed.

I don't want to waste all the pain, I want to find the purpose in it.

Redeemed

Oh, major hugs to you, Redeemed    

My mother didn’t commit suicide, though she had contemplated it multiple times when younger. She had a major stroke and lingered until the last day of summer and it was a blessing when she died. She had been lovingly cared for by the nurses at the Transitional unit at the hospital, who were really amazing. One of them told me after she passed that she thought my mom was still there, a bit confused, just having shed her earthly body. They were so kind and respectful, it really helped me deal with her passing.

The more I learn about your story, Redeemed, the more I marvel at your strength and resiliency. You are changing the course of your family destiny in a beautiful positive direction!   

   

Apologies for not mentioning the especially hard day.  I hope you find a way to be extra kind to yourself... .some extra time with S2.

FF

Oh, I see... .I feel that my mother "decided" to go when she did, four months ago after a two year battle with cancer. I believe she held on until I came to say goodbye. Her breathing slowed just 45 minutes after I left, and she died an hour later.

Really reflective today. Trying to acknowledge the emotions and sit with the, and let them pass.

Thanks FF,

I switched shifts with someone else, so s2 and I will be home together tonight.

Taking a small break from the normal routine today. Finding that helpful.

Redeemed

Redeemed

Supposed to go get title tomorrow. We'll see how that goes.

Redeemed is there someone who can go with you? Maybe a work colleague?  This would remove the possibility of you finding yourself alone with h.  You are very brave to go to his workplace. I'd be prepared to leave at the first sign of non compliance and move straight to your next step. You are going to see the DV people for your options?

Love and light x

I won't be alone with him. Today he is working at the sister store to the shop he usually works at. I know everyone up there and am familiar with it, and all the guys in the shop will be back there with him. Also it isn't as closed off as the other one, it's in the open.

Have not found the courage yet to go to the dv center, but I plan to. Going to push myself further because I need more support. They said they can help me with how to deal with him with low contact. I am aware that I am susceptible to letting empathy for him influence me.

He said he calls and texts so much because he is just trying to get me to "recognize" that he is there. He can't stand it if I don't respond to every call or text. I read about pwBPD having no object constancy and sometimes feeling like they don't exist, maybe that's why he does this? I don't understand it.

Said he feels like we were on a deserted island together, and the rescue boat came and I got on it, and he was left. Said he can see the boat and see me looking in his direction but it's not coming back.

Then said he doesn't want me to rescue him.

Said we went through a bad situation together. That's not how I view this at all. There was no "together" in this. I guess he is referring to our kids getting taken away, but I always felt completely alone in that. There was no mutual emotional support there. There was only his pain and his response, and the isolation I felt from his abuse and descent into further madness.

Redeemed

It's no wonder that you're hesitant after that awful experience some years ago with the previous place, but this DV center sounds like a world apart from that one.

PwBPD have abandonment issues and in his case, likely there's childhood issues that trigger that for him. Still it doesn't sound like he's recognizing how his behavior has impacted your and the children's lives. He may never be capable of handling the guilt and shame and may chalk causality up to external circumstances, rather than looking at himself.

I hope that he finally surrenders YOUR title.   

So... .big surprise... .he didn't bring it. Said he didn't think I would show up. Said he promises to give it to me this weekend somehow. I am working all day so now I have to figure out something else that will be safe.

Redeemed

Isn't it time to contact the authorities?

You and I... and everyone else know that "something" will come up this weekend.

Let a consequence move forward... .

FF

My ideal imagined scenario would be if you had a friend in the police department who could accompany you to his motel room and ask for the title.

Exactly.

It is your title.  He has stolen it from you.  Technically I think it is "larceny" (depending on the state)... since no force was involved.  Some states call it different things.

Or... the police can help he "remember" that he has forgotten to give it back.

I don't think there is ANY reason to ever discuss the title with him again.  Seriously... .let consequences flow.  Technically stop saving him from consequences.

FF

Redeemed,

Be mindful of old patterns.  You're doing so well overall.   

Now is the time to remain aware and continue to make shifts which reinforce your positive momentum.  It's a gradual process to backslide and it sounds as though your h is chipping away at your resolve.  Don't run around in circles negotiating and working around him on his terms over this.  Take a new approach.  It may be uncomfortable, and that is a good thing.  In my experience discomfort at doing something a new way signifies growth.  How you approach this differently to the way you would before, or have been doing, is your choice.  Just remember you have options.  There are always options.  Head up, chest out, shoulders back, deep breath and act.  Rooting for you and sending strength. 

Love and light x

I got it back! 

He texted me. Said he would meet me in a public place on my break, and that is what we did.

Thank God that is done.

Ok. So now, I have to keep my guard up. I still do not want much contact, and I know that uBPDh will continue to initiate contact almost constantly. He will push to talk to s2, to see s2.

He apologized for his behavior, and offered to buy me another purse. Then dropped hints about how he is broke.

It is obvious to me that no matter what he does he expects me to still be there in some form or fashion. And I read an article on Lundy Bancroft's website last night about how it is the natural result for someone to crack under the constant pressure applied by another person who intends to wear someone down. So, knowing that, I have to have a means of reducing that pressure. This is where the dv advocates will come in. most likely, because that is what I talked about on the phone with the director and she said they can help me with how to deal with him if I am not in complete NC.

The sooner I can do that, the better, and it may be Tuesday before I have time to go. But I am going.

I have been researching online about domestic abuse and found several websites (such as Lundy Bancroft's) that have been helpful. i found a couple that are Christian-based that were very, very helpful. One especially hit home with me, as a reader had written and asked a question that seemed like it came out of my own mind. It was written by a woman who had chosen to leave her abusive husband, a man who had been diagnosed with BPD. She asked if there are any stories of God changing an abusive, mentally ill man.

The answer was basically, "no". In fact, the woman quoted Bancroft who said "don't let too much of your life slip away, hoping that he'll change. Over the past three decades I've heard a hundred or more women say 'I wish I could get back all those years I lost trying to get him to work on himself'. But I've never once heard yet a woman say 'I gave up on my abusive partner too soon. I wish I'd given them more of a chance'."

Her answer pretty much said that you can always hope that someone will change, and pray for them. But you need to look at things realistically, and the reality is that abusers most often do not change.

I know that since he apologized and was able to contact me again that he will begin again the process of wearing me down over seeing s2. I do not an any way think that just because he apologized that this type of behavior will not happen again. In fact, history has shown that it will, it's just a matter of time.

Also... .I think he called my cell provider and got my phone records. He told me that someone from a certain number called me numerous times between march and july, and gave the number, and said the phone conversations lasted fifteen minutes at a time. Said someone told him this was a person I was seeing while he was in jail, and gave him the number. When I heard it, it sounded familiar and I didn't remember how, until it clicked that it was the number that used to show up when he called me from jail. I told him "that was you, that's the jail number" and he started laughing. Now, I know that he knew who it was the whole time, but this whole conversation is just disturbing to me. It's mind games. And it wasn't until later that I realized the implication of him knowing that number and how many times it called between those months... .I think he called my cell provider and got my phone records.

So, I have got to change basically everything that he would be able to gain access to. And when I do, no doubt he will accuse me of having something to hide.

I predict that the more boundaries I set... .the more dysregulated he will get... .and therefore the more dangerous... .because he admits to being obsessed and infatuated with me... .though he claims it is "love".

I need to build a large support system, asap.

Redeemed

Redeemed, I've just caught up on all the recent events.  Congrats on finally nailing the van title issue!  Soon, hopefully, you'll have a happy van with tags, a good cooling system, and a title!

You've got quite a team here supporting you.  I'm glad for all the progress you've made, especially in overcoming your past bad experiences and your phone anxiety to reach out to the DV center.  It is fantastic when folks surprise us with help and understanding we didn't expect!

Keep up the good work, and make sure to trust yourself.  You are intelligent, well-read on this stuff, and capable.  You've got this.

RC

Awesome that you got the title back.     

Yes, you are very wise about keeping your guard up and thinking that he will try and wear down your resistance with constant pressure.

I'm so glad that you've found some DV resources with experienced people who understand what you're going through. They understand nuance and that it's reasonable to have limited contact so that he can visit with his son.

Good for you that you're pushing some of your own boundaries to reach out for support.    You're a very bright and resourceful woman, not to mention, very strong and your self-image is beginning to catch up with reality. 

Cat

Ok, so new question. He started to sign the title. He actually wrote his first name on it, but not his last name. Can I strike through that and sign my name without a problem?

He admitted that he was going to tag it in his name, but he remembered that he doesn't have proof of address in this county. No mail, his license has his mother's address which is a different county.

He said I could just add my name on there and title it in both our names. Like that's going to happen. 

Anyone know if this is a problem?

Redeemed

How about going to the DMV (ugh--I know--a real time waster) and finding out.

Do you have the title in your possession?

If not... .there is no need to discuss anything else with him... .EVER.

Once you have it in your hand... .take it to DMV and I"m sure they will help you work through it.

No reason to discuss with DMV without title in hand that you can show to them.

So... .he was going to try to "take" your car from you.  Do you understand that... .knowing full well that  it was yours... .instead of asking you for it... .he felt entitled... .

Now he wants part of it.  NO... NEVER.

FF

EXACTLY. He feels entitled to do what he wants, as if I am not a separate person with any rights. This is what his mother meant when she said he sees me as a possession- I'm "his wife".

Where I live, we go to the county clerk's office to get tags, not DMV. I suppose I can call tomorrow and ask them. And yes, the title is now in my possession.

And here come the calls and texts today, offering to keep s2 while I do homework, while I work. As if nothing ever happened.

This is just crazy.

Redeemed

BINGO!  Redeemed, I have felt exactly the same way.  I am excited for you that you are on the road to reclaiming your life as a separate person!

WW

OK... .yes!   A dysfunctional tool "appears" to have been taken away.  Don't relax until at the county clerks office... and the title has been processed.

When you get a minute... I'm interested in details of how the title got back to you... .there may be a "healthy" way to "close the loop" when the title has been processed.

Now... .on to him blowing up your phone... .I'm going to suggest that AFTER the title has been handled, that the next step is to be thoughtful for a few days about your "technology" and how you communicate with your hubby.

It's obvious that isn't working... .and there seemed to be a concern of hacking or viewing... or some other odd kind of influence.

Can we set a goal that a technology plan will be in place by the weekend... and perhaps be taking a few steps down the road towards making that plan a reality?

FF

He texted me on my break yesterday and said he had tried to find someone going my way to drop it off to me, but he couldn't. Said he was walking towards my work and asked could i meet him, so I drove down the street and met him in a parking lot, highly visible area, gas station, apartments etc. He gave it to me, admitted he started to sign it. He checked the coolant in the car and said the new coolant in the reserve was now dirty and that wasn't good. I had to go back to work so I used that as an excuse to cut conversation short and leave. Today he wanted me to come by and let him do something about the coolant, but I didn't want to and thankfully it poured rain so that stopped him from pushing for it. He wanted to take s2 to church while I was at work today. I said no.

I know he tried to change the password to our joint Facebook page so he can get into it. That account is linked to my phone number. I was using the messenger on that account but I stopped, and now have my own individual messenger account without a Facebook page setup. Same phone number though.

I am pretty sure he has figured out a way to view my individual messenger, and called my cell provider for information on who I have called. I can probably prevent that by changing the pin and by telling my cell provider that he is not an authorized party. I have a friend at work who went through the same thing with his ex fiance.

I don't want to change my phone number but I might have to. I don't have anything to hide, but I think I need to set a boundary around my privacy. It goes back to him feeling entitled to spy on me.

Thoughts?

Redeemed

I wouldn't change your cell number right away.  Get some of this technology stuff untangled if you can, so that you know how to keep your new number from getting "dirty" and tangle up in the mess as well.

Secure your cell phone first.  Call the provider.  Ask them to put an alert on your account.  Tell them that your husband has been to jail for domestic violence, you have a restraining order in place, and he is stalking you.  Ask if they have a special person you can talk to, and ask if they have a special protocol.  You don't want to talk to someone who just started working there last week.  Let us know how it goes so other members can learn.

Change all of your passwords, including your solo messenger account.

What do you want to do to the joint Facebook account?  Do you want to take it down completely?  Freeze it in place for now?  Take it over as your own?  How is it named?  Just one of your names, or something that has both of your names or something like "Redeemed Family?"

Give it a few days and we need to figure out something you can say via text to "help him understand" that you appreciate the title getting back to you and that he needs to reflect on that... .because that is EXACTLY the kind of thing that "gets in the way" of your relationship.  Very important you don't say "only" or anything like that.


Technology... .

The beauty of google voice (and other things like that) is you control when and where the number rings and the texts go.

So... .you can another cell phone number (to an actual physical cell phone) yet NEVER give that to anyone.  Only tell google voice to send stuff there.

Most people will text and call your google voice number and never know it's not a "real" cell phone.

There are ways you can customize what happens when certain numbers call and perhaps when they text, but honestly I haven't played with that much.

You need a really... really strong password on your google account... something only you know and nobody else will guess (yet with complicated symbols as well)

"Gl@d1havemytitle"

(glad I have my title) turned into a password... .only you would know the 1 is an "eye"... .you can make it more complicated if you want... .but the above should be sufficient.  Obviously don't tell anyone else.

Play with google voice first and get it working.  Then give him that number as your phone number.  Then... change your phone number with same company... .or switch companies all together and get new phone.

Do some thinking about who has the old number that really needs to know you switched.

The order of things will help reduce chaos due to switching.

You and your roomie can play around with google voice settings... .have her blow up your "GV" with texts and calls... .and change settings to see how the test number is handled.

My hope for you is that in a couple of weeks you can "turn off" your hubby for most of the day.

Turn phone on "access" to his number, deal with him for hour or so... then turn him off again.  We can help with how to "break the news" to him.

Get the tech set up first... .

You can do this!

FF

It's I both our names, like Redeemed h first name, Redeemed first name, last name.

I never really used it much. It was basically his page. I am not a Facebook fan.

Redeemed

What do you want to do with that Facebook page?  If you're not sure, and just want to park it for a bit, you could establish a separate Gmail account with a neutral name you wouldn't mind letting go of someday, and link the Facebook account to that, removing all traces of your phone number.

Well, he's still perpetrating emotional abuse against me. Classic abuser tactics.

Told me today he spoke with a lawyer, who supposedly told him he has the right to know "who is around his son." Regardless of protection order. Also said that if the protection order has been violated in any way (by me) that it is null and void. Though I already spoke to the DV director about it and she said the order is for him, not me, and that there is nothing I can do to violate it. It doesn't place restrictions on me, it is meant to prevent him from harassing and abusing me further.

He said the lawyer told him that if he feels like his son is in an unsafe situation, he should call CPS. Said he wouldn't do that, though.

The whole point of this conversation is to accuse me of doing things which I have not done, i.e. letting my son be around unsafe people, and to covertly threaten and intimidate me. Like I said, classic abuser tactics.

I hung up the phone and turned it off. I do not have to listen to this kind of blather.

I start mindfulness exercises with T next week. She said this will help me with stress and anxiety. I am almost to the point of ending all contact and filing for divorce. Let the courts work out visitation with S2. I don't know how much more of this I can take.  I am sick of him retaliating in vindictive, manipulative or outright threatening ways when he feels entitled and that I am not recognizing or acknowledging his entitlement.

He absolutely did look up my phone records. The other night he rattled off several phone numbers on my contact list, and asked who they were. Said he did it because "he has a right to know who is around his
 son." I changed the pin number on my cell provider account, because I found out that you can log in online and access the phone records for a certain period of time. I haven't changed the pin since I got the phone until now and he's the one who set it up initially, so I know that he knew it.

Last night he called repeatedly even though I had told him that I was doing homework and I only had until 11 pm to finish it. It was a lot, accounting math problems and stuff, requires lots of concentration.

I finally answered during a break and he broke down crying on the phone, talking about how lonely and hurt he is over what he has done to me. Went off on a spiritual tangent. This morning he was friendly in the texts, and then that turned to snarky, vindictive and covertly threatening.

I told my counselor today that he is still looking to me to be his sole emotional support system, and I can't. I have been too wounded. As his mother tried to tell him, son, if you keep drawing from a well too much eventually it's going to run dry.

I have no energy, patience or tolerance left for this. I also am not progressing in my own healing when I am worried that I am becoming bitter, cold, uncaring or unfeeling because his issues are draining me. I do have empathy, but for God's sake there is a limit. I can not continue to give of myself when there is barely enough to sustain me. It does no good anyway, there is no limit to the bottomless pit of BPD emotional need. I especially am running very low on patience for hearing about how intolerable the discomfort is for someone who is experiencing the results of his own choices and behaviors. And I don't like swinging between rational analysis of this situation and my emotional attachment to it. I still feel like I am going crazy sometimes.

I am going to start working with my T on boundaries and consistency, and on asserting my right to have boundaries without feeling guilty about enforcing them. As she said today, it's a sticky web that he is weaving. She said don't go near the web, don't put a leg on the web, don't even put a toe on the web. And don't feel bad about it either, because it may save my life. Or my sanity, or both.

sorry for the rambling, but it's been a few days and I had to vent out some of this stuff.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Sounds like he’s pulling this “lawyer” info out of his azz. Notice the same wording regarding your phone records.

 Your counselor sounds awesome!

If you’re worried about becoming “bitter, cold, unfeeling or uncaring,” relax. It’s been part of your nature to over-care and not assert your boundaries. It feels odd because you’re so unused to supporting your own right to autonomy. Over time it will start to feel more normal and you needn’t worry about losing your compassion. That is part of who you are.

How did things go with the title and getting new plates?

   

Ditto from me on the over caring thing.  It will feel weird at first but most likely you have been over functioning, over caring and over everything else for a while.

FF

Sounds like a great T!  Yes, boundaries without guilt.  Less exposure to him will accelerate your healing.

Glad to hear that you plugged the call records security hole, hopefully.

You are not rambling at all.  Everything you said makes perfect sense.  It's a lot to process, and it takes time.  We're happy to listen.