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I just got an email from DD21. All it said was "I'm leaving tonight. I've bought a ticket and I have my ID."

I'm not sure what to do with that. All I can think to say is that i hope she finds what she's looking for. But I'm not sure that's worth saying.  

It sounds like you're saying that any response isn't worth saying,  yes?

how are you taking it, HB?

Hello Hyacinth Bucket

Stay confident, Hyacinth, in that you have gone above and beyond in this relationship with your daughter. 

Sadly, sometimes we just have to let them fly.  In their hearts, they know the way back.

I'm one of many who are sending you {{{HUGS}}}.

Huat

Thank you Huat 

once removed, I'm not sure how I'm feeling about it. I suppose nothing has really changed about our situation. It's weird not even knowing what city she's in.  I have a decent idea of where she might have gone though.

I think the note made me sad. The detail she included about her having her ID was a weird one. She loses it constantly so I wonder if it was meant to be a "I'm being responsible" detail? I truly don't know.

I'm still on the fence about replying. I think I need to wait a couple days and see how I really feel about it. I still don't want a relationship with her until she gets treated for both her addiction and BPD. This past month I have almost started being a functional person again. I can never, ever go back to where we were. 

Her leaving the state means I don't have to worry about running into her or her randomly showing up on our doorstep. On the other hand it probably increases the likelihood that she'll get herself into a giant mess and ask to be bailed out. To which we will say no.

It's just really sad. My hair stylist asked me about my DD the other day and it really messed me up. I wasn't expecting it to affect me that way because I feel like I've gotten pretty far toward accepting it. But it's just so sad that we gave her the life she always wanted and dreamed of while in foster care and she was unable to take advantage of any of the opportunities we gave her. It's really tragic.

Here's another hug from me, Hyacinth Bucket 

That's all... .just know that I think about you on a regular basis and wonder how you're doing. Thanks for continuing to post.

~ OH

I love this Huat, I am sure that you are right when you say “In their hearts, they know the way back”. Thank you 

HB, your strength always shines through.

The thing about her ID, I wonder if it’s her way of letting you know that she’s not lost it, she’s got it so won’t need to come back for it, but of course I could be completely wrong!

I think taking time out before deciding whether or not to reply is a wise thing HB.


It’s all part of the healing process, you’re getting along pretty ok, and then out of the blue comes something that sends you spinning off course, it’s still early days HB, it’s bound to affect you.

Yes, it is tragic, you have done your utmost for your girl, there’s no doubt about that. We are here with you HB x   

me too... .


how would you feel about "i love you. i hope you are safe."?

doesnt necessarily open any doors to a relationship.

HB 

I guess it's no surprise, your DD is a traveller a mile, a state, running, our kids do, in there own way. Although my DD did not travel miles, in her mind she did and I think it took time, maturity at 26 to hold up her hands up say, I'm done, help me get me out of here, I'm ready. And that is your healthy, loving and firm message to your daughter, simple and clear, repeat, repeat. As Haut says, sometimes we have to let them fly, in their heart they know their way back. 

Has she slowed down the number of messages she's leaving? To have ID is good, yes?

WDx 

Hi Once Removed,

Thank you, I decided to send that. I'll let you know if she responds.

WD, yes, that was the first time I'd heard from her in a couple of weeks, since she made the Dr appts that she never went to. She definitely is a runner, has done so many times before.

FB and OH, thank you   your support means so much

Such a good point that WD made about your daughter being a runner. Our son has travelled since leaving uni, returning home to touch base at least once a year. We always felt though,(before any knowledge of BPD), that he was running away from something, but not knowing what. My H always used to say whenever we discussed our son “The crows are black wherever you go”. I always used to think of him taking his demons with him wherever he went, sadly until he decides to stop and confront them, I guess they will always be there with him.

I’m glad that you responded to your daughter with what once removed suggested, just those few words say such a lot x 

Hi HB,
Just saw this post and was unaware your DD left. If you recall my DD did the same thing a month ago to Florida. It was nice your daughter  said she was leaving. My DD simply left and told neither me or her mother. We never found out till a friend of hers told us. I think how you responded was good.
I have felt the same way. Yes they are gone and the chaos stops but you still fear they will mess things up ( my DD stayed in a homeless shelter after she ran out of money). Yes, they always know their way back. My DD is back and I can only hope she learned something from this but I doubt.
I also understand how difficult it is when someone asks how your daughter is doing. I never know exactly what to say because it would be a broken record since nothing ever seems to change for the better. I hope she lets you know how she is doing.

She responded to my note with a page-long rant about how I don't love her, I'm never there for her, and I don't actually wish her well. I mostly expected that. I was hoping she just wouldn't respond. She really went all-in on trying to make me feel guilty for not responding to her when she scheduled those therapy appts for her self and asked if we'd ever be interested in family therapy. As she has for the past year, she made it sound like she has tried everything to connect with us and we have failed her. She was really mad we didn't say happy thanksgiving. how do you think that would have gone, though, if we had?

I did feel guilty for not responding to her, for a minute. But responding wouldn't have made the outcome any different. She would have reacted the same to me telling her we are not interested until she completes her own treatment. She is angry that when she faced homelessness we did nothing. But she was the one who told us that she'd rather be homeless than ever accept help from us again.

What bothers me the most is that through all of this she hasn't reached out to my husband/her dad ONCE. not once. Which tells me that she thinks she can (and in the past she has been able to) manipulate me more easily than her dad. In one of her rants when she first cut off contact with us, she said that I never listen to her or my husband and that I have damaged them both deeply. My husband was absolutely livid about that.

It feels like I'm living in some absurdist alternate reality. It doesn't feel real a lot of the time. The worst part is that I know she loves me. She does not hate me. But nothing I do is ever enough for her, and I can't live like that. It might be my own fault. I swooped in and saved her from foster care, and have gone to the ends of the earth to help her. I may have set a bad precedent. I have always tried to let her suffer the consequences of her actions. I think she wants more than anything to be saved from herself. And that isn't possible. And that's where the drug addiction comes in.  I've been reading about how people describe feeling on meth, and it makes perfect sense that that's what she's on. People say it gives them a false sense of well being, a sense of confidence and achievement. It mutes emotions. It makes them (at first) higher functioning.

She did confirm that she went to the city I thought. She says she's great and that the only time she ever hears from me is when she's doing well, not when she really needs us.  If there was an eye-roll emoji on here, I would use it. 

We adopted kids can be so tough... .and significant damage related to attachment is often done by the time we are adopted.

Are you thinking of doing anything different, or just responding as usual when she reaches out?

Hi Turkish,

Yes unfortunately we didn't get to meet/adopt her until she was 16. And had gone through at least 25 foster homes. And mounds upon mounds of trauma.

I haven't really been responding to most of her messages. That is a significant departure from the past. I wish there was something I could do different to change the situation. But until she can take responsibility for herself and get treatment I don't think there is. I do feel like I have tried everything. I'm not sure she'll ever forgive me for telling her we can't have a relationship until she gets treatment. I also told her I will  always love her and always be her mom. She also was never going to forgive me for putting  anything in my life
ahead of her, having any kind of boundaries. I honestly don't expect her to forgive me. If she gets treatment and we are not in her life anymore and she can be happy, that would be enough.

She has to seek treatment for her, though, not because we want her to. That never lasts more than a couple of weeks and she ends up more resentful. We also can't abide the verbal and emotional abuse from her. And worse, the increasingly negative effects of her meth addiction on her treatment of us.

It feels like a lose/lose situation. If I say anything to her except exactly what she wants, this happens. So it seems best to say nothing to her. Which I believe probably reinforces her feelings of abandonment. So again, lose/lose.   

She probably won't hear this no matter how you communicate it.  PwBPD feel worthless and unlovable.  The meth addiction certainly casts a dark shadow over everything.

When I was a kid,  we hung out with other adoptive families, and those who got into drugs were the worst stories.

Turkish, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this. One thing I regret is never having tried to have a conversation with her about how skewed her expectations are for how parents should behave and what our responsibilities are. I never wanted to invalidate what she felt like she needed. I also acknowledged that what she wanted sometimes wasn't something we were comfortable or able to give.  But I never tried to connect the dots for her.  I felt like it was pointless, I guess, but I wonder what you think, being an adoptee yourself.

I was adopted at 2.4 years of age.  I have scant memories of foster care,  mostly from a few pictures my mom had of me then.  My parents were addicts and I learned when I was a teenager that my birth mother died from her addictions when I was 9. I had no contact with my birth family.

When I was 17, my mom contacted my birth family. I was asked to talk to them on the phone. I refused. I thought "they gave me up, screw them." It was my birth grandmother and my birth aunt, also adopted. I was a stupid teenager and I still regret it.  My birth mother was also adopted.

My thoughts would be,  why not ask her point blank (though you could SET it up). What do you want and what do you expect from a mother?

If I were in your position, I'd think what do i have left to lose?

This is where I am at too HB. I have tried my best, just like you and I reached the same conclusion a while back that Turkish states here. My son asked me to leave him alone and I respected his wishes but it made no difference, it might have made it worse, who knows? So now I reach out to him periodically because after all I have nothing to lose, it’s already lost. Sending you hugs    

Hi FB, thank you for responding. You're both right, there isn't really anything to lose as far as our relationship goes. 

her email she said a couple of times that we forgot how broken she is. I don't think she thinks we should hold her responsible for the things she does and says. After five years though I'm sick of her past being used as an excuse with no effort to get better. She has explained to me in great detail why she's afraid of therapists. So me saying that she needs professional help automatically invalidates her. With her addiction it feels a lot more like a convenient excuse to me.

If it we're just BPD I might still be hanging in there. Maybe not, though. She used to always apologize after she went way off the BPD deep end. She hasn't tried to at all this time.  It is different. And that probably is the meth. Everything is our fault. In the past it could be a little bit of a two way street. I would validate her feelings and apologize for mistakes I made. She would apologize for things she said.

My husband and I both have fairly significant mental health disorders of our own. I have OCD and my husband has complex PTSD from his own childhood. I understand fully what it is to struggle with mental illness. I also don't have a lot of sympathy for people who won't at least try to help themselves get better.

My choices are to not say anything or to keep being a broken record about maybe resuming a relationship with her after she has been treated. I don't believe in ultimatums and I don't want to hold a relationship with us over her as some carrot to get help, that's not ok.  

I'll talk to my therapist tomorrow about whether to respond or not.

Hi HB,
Our DD’s are so similar. Your DD likes meth and my DD likes heroin. I have concluded that she uses drugs to escape from her feelings. She started drinking at age 12. Addicts have a brain that works different than ours. When they  have BPD it is all the worse. On more than one occasion a therapist or addictionologist has said when the are dual diagnosed (especially BPD) they will have a much harder time staying sober. I feel my DD is doing the same as your daughter. You said in the past after rages she would apologize but no longer. My DD has not said she was sorry after a rage in quite awhile. Since her mother and I pulled back in hopes she would get better taking responsibility for herself, she seems to only gotten worse.
I honestly do not think what you say to them in hopes they understand what and why your doing things differently makes a difference. Yes, we are intolerant of how they treat us but we are hoping they will “finally get it” and decide to turn their lives around. BPD is like addiction. It is a chronic disease that you can only control. People stay in recovery by going to AA. For
the BPD it has to be intense therapy. My daughter admits to her addiction but denies her BPD. As they say” you can’t help what you won’t admit”.
To this day my DD blames me for sending her to Hazeldon rehab in Minneapolis. Reportedly the best rehab in the country (and expensive!). Instead of being thankful she says I abandoned her by sending her away ( she does not mention she got kicked out halfway thru and I lost my money).
You and your husband went above and beyond taking her in from Foster care. Yes, it is hard to understand with all we have given them they do not take advantage of this but instead blame us for all their woes. Again, only with therapy is their any hope for them. You and I are seeing a therapist to help. Not sure why it is ok and beneficial for us but for our DD’s it is something they feel they do not need. I wish my daughter would for once look in the mirror and see the life she has created is of her own doing and not ours.
We both need to stick to our boundaries (they get therapy) before we do anything more. Honestly, you are an inspiration to me as to how strong you are in this.

Hi Jones, thank you, your note made me feel a lot better. I start getting caught up in how absurd the situation is and wishing it were different when I get those emails from her. And the fact that she keeps trying to make it seem like she is the one who tried really hard makes me start questioning myself. It would honestly be easier if she just said she never wanted to speak to me again.

Our daughters are so similar. I'm glad that you're here, Jones, I'm glad that we can help support each other in this. thank you for your support!

I think all 3 of our daughters are the same.  (BPD and addiction)

My daughter self-medicates with any drug she can get her hands on.  Used to be cocaine, now it's meth.  As far as I know, she's never done heroin (yet).

She knows that I've pretty much detached with love.  Her drama was eating me alive (still dealing court stuff from dwi #2).  I've pretty much given up on all that, and started seeing a therapist myself.

I will admit, however, it tears me up to not have a relationship with her. I've reached out to her on more than one occasion in the past two weeks.  I've gotten one text from her, which was the day before Thanksgiving when I told her she was welcome to come celebrate with us.  Her reply to me was "I made alternative plans".  I've heard nothing since, and actually let a whole week go by before I finally reached out to her again and told her I missed her.  Nothing.  I've decided to not reach out anymore.  I tried.  The ball is now in her court.

It's so difficult.  I've gone back and forth from being angry to sad... .

I'm working on focusing on ME now.  I've been doing my normal routine, and getting ready for Christmas.  (I still have a 14 year old (son) at home).  Christmas will be celebrated with or without my dd.  Her choice.


~medianeh

Hi Medianeh,

Our daughters do sound a lot alike. My DD also does a lot of cocaine, or at least she did while she was a stripper.

My DD's drama was destroying me, too.  I was a nervous wreck all the time. She called me almost every day with a crisis and expected me to stay on the phone with her for hours.

We haven't had a normal relationship for a while. 2017 was so bad I almost had two total nervous breakdownsb (because of what she put us through). In May of this year she decided she wanted to live closer to us to rebuild our relationship. I was hopeful but it also took everything in me to force myself to even try to trust her again. There were some small signs of progress. Until she started telling me more and more about her drug use. She spent a good month trying to convince me that she is better off on meth. When her insane meth induced panic attacks were becoming a daily occurrence (where she would scream hysterically at us that she was dying or having a stroke and demand to be taken to the ER), I finally got really mad and that was the beginning of the end.

My therapist asked why there has to be trust to have a relationship, and she's right, I could have one with her without trusting her. But DD can't accept that I don't trust her, and she goes nuts. She doesn't seem to have figured out that trust   is earned, despite me telling her that.

I'm sorry you're going through this. In glad you're here.  

Hi HB

I’m so sorry your having to deal with this right now. Some space may be just what you need and that may mean letting the dust settle as you and your daughter feel the consequences of what she’s decided to do. That’s my view, I’m thinking of that drama triangle. The alternative as you’ve said is contact her and start asking big questions like “what do you expect of us”. She’s highly emotional right now and most probably stressed out herself. I know it may not be what you want to hear but I’m sharing my thoughts. Another view point is always good, hope you think do.

At 21 my son was more like 15. My expectations of him because if his physical age was totally unrealistic. Drug use made his emotional development lessen. He really didn’t start to mature til 25. He ran. When he didn’t run, and was stuck, I’d push (more like manoeuvre!).

Take good care of yourself HB. Use this time to kick your wounds and get some balance. I’m thinking about you. You’ve had a crazy few years and it takes time to work through those emotions.

LP

Hi LP,

Thank you  . I am 100% on the same page as you.  I think I need to not contact her. I hadn't planned on it until I heard from her last week.

I have no intention of asking her what she wants in a parent, because I've spent the last two years being told exactly what she wants and why I'm not living up to it. My regret was just not having tried to communicate to her that her expectations are very skewed based on her past, and also that just because she wants something from me doesn't mean it's reasonable. I focus on validating her feelings and also that I was not capable or willing to do all of what she wanted.

My husband and I are going on another vacation out of the country starting next week for 2 weeks. It's the same place we went to last year. I booked the trip like 3 days after she cut off contact with us because I needed something to look forward to. I'm super excited.

HB, when you say you have " no intention of asking her what she wants in a parent" is something that I struggle with. She has said on multiple occasions "why won't you help me?"  She feels that every parent should supply their child with food and shelter (even when she is a 33yo). She is trying to make me feel bad by saying "you no longer have a daughter and I wish you well in life". I have wanted to finally say, what exactly do you want from your parents? Right now she is getting fed and housed by her male friend (my age). We think she is working. We are glad she is not on the streets but feel this is enabling her. I am afraid to ask her this question because if she says help me pay for an apartment I do not want to have to say no (then I will again look bad by not helping). You are not responding to your daughter. My ex (her mother) actually blocked her on her phone because she was so upset with the terrible things she called me. I so want to respond again but suspect I only want to do this in hopes she would "understand" and be reasonable. I am sure I am the one who is unrealistic. I assume you would say leave it be and not respond to her latest text saying she was done with me?

Hi Jones,

Yes, I would leave her be. I have a couple of thoughts. I feel that the more we try to reach out and explain, the more desperate we appear and I think that encouraged them to be disrespectful and gives them more power. 

I talked to my therapist about it yesterday, too. She said that I have to radically accept that it's going to make me feel terrible to not write her and feeling terrible doesn't mean I should do anything differently. That was really helpful for me to hear.

My daughter also changes her description of what I should be to suit her situation. And she contradicts herself even in the same notes. In this most recent one she said that I have never been there for her emotionally just financially and all she wanted was me to be there for her emotionally. Then a paragraph later she launched into a rant about how when she was facimg homelessness we did nothing to help her.  I think her sense of what she wants from me is as unstable as her sense of self. She knows fully well that she *shouldn't* want to depend on us for everything so she says things to make it appear she doesn't but in the same breath will ask us to buy her things or solve problems for her. Is your daughter more consistent? It sounds like with her there is more of a consistent financial component.



 

This makes a lot of sense to me, HB. When my DD was fleeing another state and coming back to our home town, she texted me, "I'm leaving (state) tonight and I'm going to have to stay with you." I replied, "I don't think that's a good idea, given our history." She texted back, "Fine, have a good life without us." I replied, "As you wish." Within minutes she had changed her mind. Thus began this latest term of her living with me. I set some boundaries (I would only consider it if we got family therapy) and here we are. As you know, it's not been all rainbows and roses but I really feel like I took a part of myself back from her that day when I said, "As you wish."

I'm rambling, just wanted to comment since what you wrote stood out for me.

~ OH

I like that response, OH  short and to the point!

Thanks HB. I am sure just leaving her alone is the correct thing to do. What you say about responding and showing our emotion gives them the feeling of power (control) makes sense. With my daughter it has all been about control (... .in the past she would do things as small as always change the time for her to be picked up, even by a few minutes to show she was in control). Remarkably, she does all this abuse to me and not her mother (who won't take the crap and simply blocks her). I was told at one time my DD said in a group session that her Dad was "easy". She knows me well and her using verbal and emotional abuse against me instead of her mother makes sense. How sick is that for her to do this. Like a bully in a playground.
In regard to her complaints about support, it is some financial since for once we will no longer pay for her housing. But most of the verbal abuse is that I "abandoned" her for the past 15 years (as well as "abused" her). I think this is what they call confabulation with a BPD (which they actually believe). She actually posted this on her Facebook page last year saying she had been abused by her parents.
I guess I will just stay back. Difficult as your therapist said because I do have a problem not knowing where or how she is doing.
OH, I am impressed by what you said to your DD. Just goes to show that you ladies are much stronger than us men!

My daughter hasn't contacted my husband (her dad) once through this whole thing. Kids definitely know who the soft one is, and in this case it's definitely been me historically. Like you said, she knows exactly what to say to me!