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The will isn't more than one page,  it refers to the trust, which is 4 pages of legalese.

I started this in 2013, just before my ex went off the reservation.  I deleted all references to her.  

I made my BFF (I have 4, but he's primary), my trustee should I croak early. I told my ex this this last week, and though she was one of my friends she liked a lot,  she predictably had issues with it.  "What if the house needs to be sold? What if he sells tks and takes the money?"

The kids are beneficiaries at age 25; they are now 7 and 9. Trustees can't are there to execute in the best interests of the beneficiaries. I don't trust my ex "your house is your bank!" To act in their best interests. No 2nd mortgages, no HELOCs. She'll get good money per month for the kids given I've been paying into social security since 1992. She'll get $1600/ month for just one kid. She'll need to move in because she'll loose her subsidized housing with that money. 

The lawyer deleted my verbiage about her moving in to take over the house. He said, "don't complicate it." Ditto for my firearms. In California, those laws are strict. My trustee, whom I trust (we trained together) can take posession, and give them to the kids at their legal ages, or sell them in the future.

I feel better about getting this done. The will needs to be co-signed by two witnesses,  no notary. The trust and POA (again, my BFF, because I think Misery by Stephen King (minus the food chopping) if I made her POA) need to be signed by two witnesses in front of a notary. And I can email the county the "quit claim" deed to my house which puts it into the trust.

  :check: :check: :check: :check:
I bet you do Turkish, well done! Peace of mind 

If you ex moves in to your house... at what point does she move out?

The kids retain control at 25. They can deal with it then.  In a Mexican family, it would be normal for them all to live there until the kids marry to move out.  The Trustee has the option of selling or renting.  My ex would do a good job taking care of it anyway.  I just don't want her to have access to the equity.

She just asked me if she could be included somewhere in the will. Not sure how to answer...

"Too late?"

"You're the legal guardian of the kids and the lawyer thought it not necessary to include that?"

"Why?"

"Maybe you should have stuck around?"

I might ask "How do you think you should be included?"

Either that, or ignore her.

I'm trying to follow you, your culture. I feel flip flopped, is ok. 

or you can relieve them now? That's how I see a will emotional first, financial second.

WDx

I'd reply something like, 'still working through it's not easy, catch up when my head is clearer. Thanks for asking I really appreciate.

Take it off the table, give yourself space.

WDx

That's pretty ballsy. What do you think she's wanting?

The only thing I could think you might put in the will is clarification that she is legal guardian for decisions in the areas of (what?) medical, education through secondary school, etc. while making it crystal clear that finances are decided by the trustee. And if there is any way to clarify how receipts are submitted for "reasonable" expenses, that could put a limit on her vacations.

There was originally verbiage like "I designate X persons to become childrens' guardian" but she is their legal guardian anyway.  She is already secondary owner of their college savings accounts. No one can supersede her guardianship concerning the kids. 

The L removed that language. He also said to remove the 401(k) (that's a type of US individual retirement account) from the trust. Designating my beneficiaries with the provider was good enough "don't complicate it." Brokerage accounts are designated in the trust. As as all other property. 

She doesn't like not to be in control.  Kids? 100%. Their inheritance? 0%.

Wendy, I think I know what you mean but I'm not sure.  There isn't going to be a reading or anything in front of the kids. I'll concede that I might be treating this too logically... I've not told the kids.  When they are teenagers, probably.

Frankly, as your ex she is no longer in a relationship with you other than the parenting aspect.  Not that you would tell her that so bluntly.  It's okay to say you have provided for the children and if they're still minors (or under a specified age) then it recognizes your status as mother.

The others have made excellent suggestions.  Review your instructions so that decisions that might involve her are removed from the children's decisions.  For example, if she lives in the property the children inherit while they're underage, how to specify that she must vacate at some point in time when or after the last child becomes an adult and they're not yet in control?  They may feel emotionally pressured to allow her to remain, or even gift her some of the property, once they reach the age to take control.

Another thought... has she told you what's in her will regarding you?  I realize she may not have assets sufficient to make a will advisable.  My point is whether she recognizes the principle of reciprocity.  She's asking for information that she probably hasn't shared with you.  You have the right to be as vague as you wish.  After all, you may change your will in the future, would you feel obligated to notify her upon changes?

She doesn't have a will but she's designated me to receive some of her life insurance as I have her mine.  She bought a policy, mine is tied to my job. 

My L told me that she can sue the revocable trust for child support (she may not know it at this point).  I may have to throw her a bone.  I think I'm going to ask her in person to tell me her concerns.  Sometimes we communicate better in person, and not being in writing (email) might be better in this particular case.

Being in a high cost of living area helps on a few levels.  Extra income will disqualify her for subsidized housing,  thus it makes sense for her to move back to pay a mortgage which is the same cost for a non-subsidized 1 b apartment.

I was wondering about the child support -- that's why I asked the question about receipts for expenses going to The Trustee.

But won't the children be getting Social Security benefits? Who would get thosr? Would they go to the trust, or to her as a form of child support?

So confusing...ugh!

I did more digging today after the L said that and confirmed it for California, that a parent owed CS (back or current) can sue a trust.

She would get SS benefits. She'd have to apply to the SSA, and I don't know how long that would take. I've been paying into the system for 27 years. When I looked into it about 5 years ago,  she'd get $1600/mo for just one kid.  They would not go into the trust.

Hi Turkish  :hi:

This was my point FD so eloquently expands!


Your decisions will be seen to be fair to all, you are a top father!  I think it's how you communicate your wishes for the emotional well being of your children, you've got the financial.

My DD is 30, I can't tell you how many time I've tweaked it.  :( I was so hung up on it 30- 15yrs ago.

Where are you now Turk?

WDx

PS - I suggest you put in your calendar to carry out an annual review, so you do not lose track. Life changes.   x

There is indeed a lot of guilt in that family. I'm not sure how much she is seperated from it.  I know she is a little.  When she gave her dad and brother money to buy a car,  they went and bought two brand new trucks and her brother passed down his car to her.  Then they rolled both trucks into a home refi.  They almost lost their house until they were able to refi under an Obama program. I know she was pissed (that's "angry"<--- translation to US   

When we first dated,  we went on a trip to a So-Cal market to purchase things to resell here for profit, my ex handed her mom everything.  I asked why she did that and she said her mom would give her a lot of guilt if she didn't.  At first I thought her mom asked,  but my ex volunteered.  To this day I don't know what to think of that. 

I know part of her emotional issues are related to emotional enmeshment with her mother.  The Good thing is that she is aware of it and kind of resents it.  Still,  it's her mom.  Part of it is culture.  I'm not sure how much I should talk to my 9 year old about my plans.  He admires me so far,  but I don't want to engage in making unhealthy triangles.  I'm thinking of writing a letter that my executor can give to him when he's a teenager. 

D7 wants to live in a mansion. S9 said, "when I grow up I'm going to buy a house like you daddy." I asked him why.  "Because it's what you need and you're smart and save your money." I told him that was ok,  but if he started out well and went to school that he could afford something a little better.  I told D7 that a mansion was a worthy goal,  but that around here that would be a few million dollars at the cheapest, and it would cost a lot each year to keep.

Where I am now? Funding the trust.  I noticed that the L put the wrong zip code on the quit claim. The parcel # is accurate. I'm going to email him tomorrow to correct it and I also have questions about whether I'm supposed to put my bank and brokerage accounts in the name of the trust.  She said the kids' friend has a birthday party after church Sunday and asked if we could meet to talk about her concerns Saturday.  Again: I'm supposed to adjust my time to accommodate her? I'm busy.  The Chihuahua needs washing. 

My executor/secondary trustee sent me back the singed  DPOA, so i feel better in that it won't turn out like Stephen King's Misery if I become incapacitated.  My ex isn't as bad as a lot of those here,  but she's done nothing to show me that she won't do anything but act in her own self-interest.  To whit: dumping her H and treating him horribly,  the dream guy she left me for.  And asking to move back in while they were seperated but still married.  Am I nothing more than an object to meet someone else's needs?

I will update the legal things as I finish which should be helpful to others,  especially in California.

That is eye opening, well for me it is Turkish. An adult child (your ex) feels they are responsible, have to contribute to parents finances. As you say culture, enmeshment, guilt... That your ex was knocking at your door for help (move in) when separating from her exH, is clearly her needs, hurts!

You want healthy for your children, for them to be free. I can't see you have addressed FD and my point, if you move your ex in to your home, when does she move out? When your DD reaches 18?

I'll wash your Chihuahua Saturday, what time?. 

WDx

My will attorney said I didn't have anything substantial to put in a trust, well, not until I died.  So my will addresses that trust concept.  That means I don't have legal expenses every year maintaining a trust.  As for my life insurance and accounts, I've named beneficiaries.  My son is the one with the lion's share of course.  I was advised I could list my minor child as "In trust for {name} pursuant to will dated {mm/dd/yyyy}".  He will be an adult next year so I have the option to change that language after his next birthday at a point in time of my choosing.  I may decide to keep some funds in trust for a few extra years so it isn't all promptly spent.

I'm not sure how to word language such that they could kick her out, or if I should. She would be like any other tenant, subject to applicable laws.  The kids won't get control until they are 25.

If your will states she moves in, perhaps these are questions she'll raise with you.

Did you meet yesterday?

The will and trust don't state that.  The L removed that language.  We're going to talk tomorrow when we exchange kids. 

I printed out a  extra copy of the trust. Should I bring it to let her read,  or would that result in providing a target and not be validating since she isn't mentioned in it? It's about 3 pages of legalese, though readable, a page of signatures, and a final page listing my accounts referred to in the trust. I'm not going to give her a copy. The original is in my safe and I emailed a color (to reflect the signatures in blue pen) pdf to my secondary trustee.

No. Write down the 4-5 salient points -- don't give her the legal doc.

I'm not giving her a copy,  but just letting her read it. It might be too much though. I'm leaning not to let her read it, but I wanted to be honest to you all about my Rescuer tendencies. You've called me out on this before and I appreciate that you've done so.

It's a constant balancing act, I know. I just think that, if she is not the trustee, you can give her the high points without giving her detail for her to latch onto and dispute. She may react negatively to the trust situation, in any case. Does she already know you are setting up a trust?

She knows I did it, and made by BFF my Trustee. My other BFF i wrote into it the back up. She fears he'll screw her and the kids over somehow.  It's all about control. Even though he was one of my friends whom she liked. 

My BFF isn't perfect, who is? But he's even more of a boy scout than I am.  I've known him since I was 13. 34 years. we've been through the gauntlet, together and apart. I trust him implicitly. She doesn't understand that. 

You've likely met or talking now.

How did it go?

Just got back after talking at the park.  The will rabbit what she really wanted to talk about, but first that:

She gave her usual concern about how money can change people even friends.  I told her I've own my buddy since I was 13. What I didn't say is that I trust him a lot more than her.  I said I'm leaving him 10% of my individual retirement account (a 401(k) and that it's no small amount of money,  the kids get 45% each. I repeated what I said about a trustee bound to act in the best interests of the beneficiaries and that he cannot sell the house and take the money. 

I also repeated that she'll get about $100k in life insurance and each kid about the same.  What she really wanted though was to ask to borrow money.  She has about $26k in credit card debt. 

She offered to pay me 4% which is better than the 8% she's paying now (which is a good rate for a CC). So no, just by this alone, her behaviors, she can't be trusted to handle my estate.  I did not say this.  I told her I didn't have that kind of money and I'd have to sell stock.  I do have the money not that's my cushion if I get laid off. 

She also told me she filed for divorce but is having an issue with serving her husband.  He's still in denial and has showed up at her apartment high on pot. He also calls and texts. 

So the will and trust aren't the real issue.  She's got a lot of other problems.  I hope she can end it safely.  He's an unstable guy and she said he's "buffed up" a lot so likely using steroids. 

Interesting conversation...you certainly found out quite a lot, and certainly the validation that she should not be the trustee was worth it.

If you had the cash, would you lend it to her?

Technically I do, but not to spare.  And no I wouldn't. A few thousand I might consider.  She blew off what she owed me before.  She said she could pay me $800/mo. Even at 4% interest, I don't see the upside for me.  She got herself into this mess.  She has a job and a nice subsidized condo.  She'll pull herself through.  We dropped martial arts ($125 for herself and another $125 for one kid). Time to go "gazelle intense" as dave Ramsey says. 

We could have a nicer life in a nicer house in a better neighborhood if not for her impulsive and unwise decisions. 

Good to be upfront you are leaving your BF 10%. I've done similar for my BF. My sister, she respectfully declined, she is set up for life.

Do you feel your will is off the table. You've been clear, you have closure?

A radio personality who focuses on getting out of debt (yes, Dave Ramsey) says it is hugely unhealthy to loan money to friends or family (or accept a loan from friends or family).  Why?  There are strings attached.  There is high risk the repayment issues will poison whatever relationship there is.  Add in her known pattern and you're enabling and not helping.  He says if you do make a loan then mentally file it internally as money you'll never recover, an unspoken Gift.

And knowing her patterns, gifting her money now would only enable her to get into more debt and incentivize her to come back again and again for you to fix her problems.

Sounds like letting her inherit a lump sum will just feed her poor money decisions.  Is there some way it could be released to her in annual payments, say, over 5 years?  Sounds like I'm describing another trust or even an annuity for her.

Wendy: yes though the whole situation is concerning. 

FD: yes it would be enabling, similar to the money I and others gave my guest hoarder mother over the years.  My ex still owes me about $2500 to which she said "I buy more clothes and shoes than you do."

The life insurance is through work.  I'm not sure I can control how it's paid out. She will get monthly Social Security survivor's benefits if the kids are minors.  Hopefully that and the insurance are enough to ensure that she won't sue the trust for CS. I doubt she would though. 

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