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Would love to hear your thoughts about your values-based boundaries. I'm getting ready for a very important session with our couples therapist this Thursday(truthfully I'm not sure if my partner is going to end the relationship there, but my focus is on me right now and self-care). 

@FormFlier changed my whole thinking in such a positive way by sharing this  link with me: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries) and encouraging me to read this several times, while also switching my "lens" from my partner as a problem to "I'm going to take care of me."  - Honestly, I've read it now at least 10 times and have been listening to Siri read it to me in the car while driving. It's helped so much. 

I have been looking at boundaries as my values for me and for a relationship.

Can you help me with some feedback and sharing your boundaries?

so far, I know this:

• I value emotional trust, intimacy, and safety in a relationship; therefore, I will share vulnerable feelings only when I feel emotionally-safe.
• I value respectful communication in discussing relationship concerns; therefore, I will remove myself from situations/discussions when there is abusive language, attacks, threats.
• I value loving interest in better understanding my needs in a relationship, as well as respect for my emotional well-being/physical health; therefore, I will not engage with someone who is giving me the silent treatment
• I value the ability to make mistakes in relationships and to learn from them as a couple who both value growth and mutual understanding in a relationship; therefore, I will not engage (e.g., discuss? chase? communicate?) with someone who is punishing me with silence or abusive language and expecting me to be perfect.
• I value relationships in which both partners respect each individual's own professional/career path and do not sabotage it with tests of whether or not the relationship is "more important"; therefore, I will choose not to make career decisions that will self-sabotage my career.
• I value sexual intimacy that is safe and supportive of understanding each individual's needs so both partners can be happy.  Therefore, I will not engage in behavior when I feel threatened or emotionally unsafe.
• I value consistency in "walking" my talk of what my values are. Therefore, I will not take actions that go against these values and give mixed messages to my partner (e.g., I will not compromise my boundaries)
• I value open communication in a relationship and respect for when the partner needs time to think/be alone. Therefore, I will share my needs for when I need to think and the time when I can talk again.

I am challenged in how to communicate boundaries when I can see my partner in the session saying "you are saying I'm not supportive. I am supportive." over and over, when I don't always feel supported or feel safe.

How do I communicate that I feel threatened and not use the word "abuse" - when i try to communicate feelings about "hurtful words", her response is usually "what? now you're going to say I'm emotionally abusive?"
Am I moving in the right direction? What are yours?

ps we are 2 women in a relationship

A great list  |iiii  The only values I'd think to add are spontaneity (at times) and forgiveness.

You ask how to communicate when you feel threatened without using the word "abuse"--what about not feeling safe; feeling unsupported; feeling misunderstood; feeling out of sync; feeling judged; feeling unappreciated, feeling frightened, etc.

When you use the word abuse, you are talking about her behavior and giving a judgment. However when you talk about your feelings, that's entirely in your realm and valid.

I think this is a great list.

Boundaries are something for us, not something we impose on another person. They reflect our values and guide our responses.

If we value honesty- then we need to be honest.

Boundaries are also how we determine " what is me" and "what isn't me"- that is- what is the other person's feelings, or responsibilities.

For instance- if I am feeling something- then these are my feelings. If another person is feeling something- that is theirs. We don't have to be feeling the same thing.

It's tough to be with someone who is in a bad mood, but if we have good boundaries, we realize - that is them, not us. We don't have to be in a bad mood too.

Boundaries also respects people's property and privacy.

What do we do when someone violates or potentially violates our boundaries?

If someone wants to rob our house, do we ask them not to do it, or do we recognize that there are people who want to do this and so we lock the door. The locked door is a boundary.

When someone speaks cruel words to us, we can start by expressing our wishes. I think it helps to use "I" and not "you". For instance " I feel hurt when you say these things to me" rather than "you say mean ( abusive) things".

Another boundary is to not be present when someone is saying cruel things. Walk away, or disengage from the conversation.

Another is an internal boundary. When someone says something mean to us, we can stop, examine it, decide "is this me" or "is this not me". Often when someone with BPD is saying cruel things, it reflects them, not us. We can learn to disengage and not react to it.

When involving a relationship, I think we have to examine our values and ask " is this relationship compatible with my values?". If not, can these values be compromised? If not then one has to decide to continue the relationship or not.

This is without judgement. No two people are the same. For some people, it's important to be in a relationship with someone who is the same religion. For others. it doesn't matter to them. Not a judgment, just that we can choose the values that are important to us. But we can't turn someone else into what we want if they don't share our values.

You may value honesty, but if someone is not honest or up front with you, then you have to decide if this is something you can live with in a relationship or not. Or you make boundaries around the situation. If you can't trust a person with money, don't share a bank account.

Basically, boundaries guide our actions, not dictate the actions of others.

You have a great list! 

There seem to be a couple schools of thought on how to present this.  Likely you will have to play around with this and see what is effective.

1.  The "I feel " statements.  These are good because you are owning it.  Downside is the pwBPD can poke at you about "changing your feelings"...or "your feelings are yours to fix".  (and there is an odd kernel of truth there)

2.  Stating what is "in between" the relationship.

"I'm not able to have an intimate conversation when threats are between us."

You own it, you state what is there and you mention "us" (the relationship) as being important.

However there is no blame.  You certainly don't own putting the threat there, but you don't push it  on the other person.

If they are sitting around wishing they could talk to you they have "one reason" from you that isn't happening. 

Perhaps they will connect the dots, perhaps not.  The less words you use the greater the chance they will connect the dots.


Best,

FF

Thanks  @CatFamiliar and  @FormFlier ! Great ideas. Forgiveness is so important- I sincerely believe in allowing people to make mistakes as long as they take ownership for it. As I say that, I also realize that I can’t expect that my g/f will agree.

My therapist is worried if I use spontaneity as my g/f tends to use that as an excuse for the chaos in her life, which she uses then to justify her ignoring me.  

Also what do you think about something my therapist said. i believe she thinks its healthy for me to give voice to my g/f’s behavior as abuse esp since my g/f has admitted the silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse.

I definitely hadnt thought about the in between values like that—do you have another example?

I am getting nervous about this couples therapy session. It will take 1.5 hrs to drive there and another 1.5 for me to drive back.  I hope its worth it. My therapist helped me to see that its important for me to be honest and use my voice so as not to regret it later. She says there is potential loss either way so which is worth it more? To not share and continue getting sicker or to voice it? I have realized my health has to be first and I have to voice it.

I dont know what my g/f is doing. She doesnt call, nor texf but she picked up the phone on Sunday when I called. She offered that she’s probably part of why I am having a hard time and she is sorry for that.  She was worried someone was hitting on me and was happy when I told her that everyone knows she and I are together.Yet I dont get why she doesnt contact me. She’s the one who started the silence way back then stopped it by calling once.

Any thoughts anyone?

There are a couple issues you have raised.

For now I would hope you can set aside "silent treatment is abuse".  (it may be...but for now lets leave this an open question)

Here is what I do and usually advise.

When someone demonstrates/says/does that they can't talk to you right now.  Why not "just believe them" and go on with your life.

They know themselves and their insides and I think it best if you believe that they aren't able to have a healthy conversation. 

After all, what if they weren't silent but called you names? 

Which is more "abusive".  Silence or name calling?

Can you reflect back the thought I'm trying to get you to examine?

Best,

FF

This is only day two for me on this forum.  So much of what your saying makes a 100% connection with me.  It's me and my sister and I'm going to therapy with her end of the month.  

I think dealing with rage is unacceptable.  So that boundary gets a big fat check from me.

We all make mistakes for me my sister holds on to her grudges and past slights as if they empower her and they do.  Without them she wouldn't have any justification for her rage.  We all deserve to be human and make mistakes.  Full stop, we all should be able to acknowledge our mistake, truly feel contrite, ask for forgiveness and be allowed to move on.

I feel like if I don't make the effort to go to therapy I'll always wonder if there was more I could have done.  And BTW I have to take a 3 hour flight to do it.

What I'm seeing is that the need to feel safe, safe in a conversation, safe in all ways shouldn't be something we have to worry about.  Setting a boundary that provides you with safety can't be bad.

Exactly.

That being said, don't expect disordered people to "agree". 

Many time they feel "persecuted" by someone closing a boundary that used to be open.  Disordered people often feel "entitled" to rummage around in others boundaries, while at the same time keeping theirs closed tight. 

Best,

FF

Using the word abuse with personality disorders is a tricky one. Things were getting so out of control with my husband that I thought I should call his behavior out for what it is. He split right in the middle of our counseling session because the truth was too painful. Our counselor decided it was best to take the word abuse out of the description. Next my husband was saying I agree it is not abuse. Just because I agreed not to use the trigger word does not mean his degrading comments and name calling is not abuse. Now I describe the behavior and he is sensitive to specific words which call him out. I’m running out of vocabulary :)

Self boundaries are extremely important. Focusing on your emotional health and also nurturing relationships which are positive and fill your tank are imperative.

I think it's more important that you agree to disagree.

Seriously. 

MC is not about agreeing about everything. 

I've found much more success focusing on behavior change, rather than agreeing that something was "shaming" or "abusive" or "(insert term)"

Try this on for size.  Rather than "judging" his behavior (for what it is), try briefly describing it and expressing befuddlement.  "Help me understand the message you were trying to send me.  It seems very important to you."

Perhaps the message was "I'm so angry at you."  (validate that)

"Calling out" rarely is helpful.

Best,

FF

I will join in on what others are saying. One thing that came to mind is this. When I first learned about boundaries, my T said that you don't even have to communicate your boundaries to the offender. You can simply act on them. What counts the most is that you are clear with yourself.

Another point is that for every boundary you set, you need to have considered the consequences you will apply if that boundary is being violated. This part really got me going into a spin initially. Because some of my chosen consequences were way out of proportion with what energy I had into me to follow up with.

pwBPD will eventually test your boundaries. You might want to read about the concept of 'extinction burst' on this website. Basically, your partner might not like nor cooperate with your newly presented boundaries. You are the guardian of that door. The idea of 'extinction burst' is that things will likely get worst before they get better. Think of it as a habit thing. If we let others walk on our limits as a habit, it will take a lot of efforts from both the offender and from ourselves to make the change over to the new behavior.

Which brings me to say, we are all called to pick our battles. Starting with a smaller, more simple one if it's not too dire a situation might be preferable. Initially, I found out that some of my consequences were too much for me to manage. I mean I wanted to cut contact at the first violation of anything that disturbed me. As it turned out, all I needed really was to walk out of the room for 10 min when there were hurtful words being said or I noticed circular conversations were started.

In a way, good boundaries are not at all about getting even with the offending partner, so we have to be clear about what we want to accomplish within the relationship.

I think that for me walking away when the circular conversation started was more effective when I simply said 'There seems to be some difficulty making progress with our conversation. I'm going to step out for (10 min? an hour?) and will get back to you.' 

My partner did not feel so attacked when I did it like this because she was knowing I'd be back later, and it gave her a chance to cool down, without me bringing in a judgement at her.

I had to come back in the room though.

It takes patience of course.

So there's lots of things that have been said about your list... which is excellent, right down to not wanting to throw the word "abuse" around too lightly. Of course that doesn't mean that you don't have the right to use it if you are a sensing that your partner is trying to debase you. Just because you can "handle" someone's negative comments doesn't mean that the intent to hurt is not there. And that is the key. It's to understand intent.

Which brings me to your apprehension about counselling. What is it that you are apprehensive about exactly? Maybe I missed something.

I would say - based on what I have read here - is that counselling in of itself does not "fix" things. It does however provide a space for discernment and discovery. If you are ready to accept what you discover and discern what you wish for yourself, which may include what you wish for your partner, then counselling cannot help but deliver. It does not mean that we do not suffer in counselling. And it does not mean that the outcome is what we might have hoped for. 

And so my prayers are with you in this one. Know that if you have been able to articulate these very excellent boundaries (I wish I would have been able to in my broken relationship - I would have left it with more dignity than I could maintain) then you are likely loving yourself more than your partner has - and that counselling will remind you that you deserve better. 

Agreed!

Second priority is consistency in action.  pwBPD will test them.  That's not a failure, it's just a fact of life with pwBPD.  If one day the test works and the other day the test doesn't, that will actually encourage the pwBPD to try harder.

Best,

FF