Print Page - Oh boy, Adult son getting into deep trouble

Hi there

It’s been a long while since I’ve needed a kind shoulder and some solid advice. Not even sure if there are any old timers still on here but I’m sure there’ll be support because this place And all you people are wonderful.

The background to this latest drama is needed.

Adult son 29 is now living independently and working. He lives “alternatively” in a mobile home on a farm. He’s been in an “on and off” relationship for about 18 months with a woman who is 54. She lives in a cabin on her own land with her daughter 15.

They got a bit more serious last summer and had a more regular arrangement. Son started calling her girlfriend. Son has always said how crazy and dysfunctional GF is. He thinks he can help her. He rarely talked about daughter other than she’d been expelled and didn’t attend school. I could tell he felt sorry for her because she was misunderstood and didn’t fit into school.

In lockdown we noticed son was “supporting” his GF’s teenage daughter. Mother and daughter have been having some relationship issues. He helped daughter get contact with her step-sister as an example. Daughter didn’t like son very much but he started to help her learn to cook spending time together. Alarm bells started ringing in my head.

Anyway, about 6-7 weeks ago he finishes with GF. It took a few weeks for her calls to stop etc. I sighed with relief. I noticed a distinct change in son. He seemed relaxed and very happy.

Then, a surprise to us, he contacts ex-GF and asks if he can still see her daughter. I’ve no idea what was said or how this was agreed upon. He’s spent two consecutive Sunday afternoons with her. Alarm bells again. I thought “this situation will peter out”. Then I saw a photo of daughter posted on social media and I could tell it was taken at his place (outside) but obviously if she was visiting she’d naturally go into his accommodation. I’m horrified at his idiocy. A 29 year old man entertaining a girl of 15 is impossible to explain to anybody. Even if totally innocent, a mature person wouldn’t put themselves at risk of any doubt.

Meanwhile, son tells me he’s successfully treated himself. He’s taken a programme of acid during lockdown and had a spiritual happening. He thinks he’s found the answers to every question and talks like he’s the messiah or something. The three of us (husband, me and son19) all feel uneasy at this new arrogant spouting of “I know the Way”. We’ve agreed that our reply will be “I don’t tell you how to live your life, so don’t you tell me how to live mine”.

We can feel the escalating drama. We’ve discussed it. We feel prepared to stand aside and let him feel the consequences. We worry a little when he eventually faces reality.

Tonight, I received a bombshell text from son.

He says daughter is a big part of his life and he’s like us to meet her. He says he understands that we may be reluctant for all sorts of reasons but he’d greatly appreciate it, she’s a great person.

I’ve replied to say let’s talk about this next time we see you. We thought it was a good stalling while we work out what we need to say to him.

Trying very hard to stay in the present but finding it incredibly difficult. This could be an absolute nightmare. It already is.

I’m feeling terribly sorry for ex-GF, she should have said No but maybe she was scared of daughter kicking off. I’m angry at son getting himself between them. I’m bewildered that he thinks that this situation can develop to include us welcoming her into our lives. What is his relationship with her? Even if he thinks he’s “step-dad” it’s completely inappropriate and we all know what will happen next if not already. He’s doing serious drugs too. This girl is at risk. I can easily see her moving in after an argument with her mother.

My thoughts are that we do a DEARMAN and keep things short. No, we don’t want to meet daughter. I feel that if I ask a direct question “what’s your relationship?” It’ll open up dialogue. He talks a load of xxit. We know there’s no way to reason with somebody who is taking mind altering drugs.

We found a way to have a relationship with son. One where he lives his life while we live ours. He seeks emotional support from us occasionally. This request is too far and totally against our own moral code.

I’m ashamed at his behaviour.

LP

Ok.

So nobody here can relate to my crazy life.

I’ll just use this as a kind of diary while I ride this latest development.

I’ve received a message from son29. Actually, more of an essay.

So after supreme efforts to improve my relationship with him for over 6 years; always, in the hope he’d have this as a wall to give him some stability And to be able to live independently - he now turns to me as the sole reason for all his problems.

Everything is my fault.
His poor relationships with his family, particularly dad and brother are my fault.
I’m the one who is mentally ill.
I’m the manipulator.
He loves me unconditionally.
He forgives me.
I must be open to his “all seeing power”

He goes into fine detail, with skewed thinking. He twists and turns. Some of it is truthful but most isn’t. It’s painful reading, there is not one nice thing to say about me. No recognition of anything that’s ever been done for him. Believe me I’ve bent over backwards. Even to the extent of me being here learning new interaction skills for a number of years. I wouldn’t have done it any differently because for a while there I had my family together, I used my new skills to strengthen all my relationships. I lean on these now in what is far dark shift in our lives. My work here has prepared me emotionally. I’m not a wreck. I just feel a bit numb and sad. My “family” is coming undone.

So it looks as if I’m blacked but in a calm, superior and calculated manner. He’s pushing my buttons to “help” me.

This way of thinking is HIS truth. I cannot change how he sees it. He takes drugs, I cannot change this.

I’m in a lose lose situation. Both husband and son19 are now angry and deeply resentful of son29. Of course, it’ll be my fault in son29’s eyes. He will see that I continue to turn them against him.

Son29’s behaviour over Covid has been erratic. He’s narcissistic and his “forgiveness” will turn to full on perpetrator. I know I should stay in the present bit my biggest fear has moved up a level from fear of him committing to suicide to one of my own safety. There’s no suggestion he’d do me any physical harm but my fear of it has risen up.

I, of course, wish to run. I want to close down all interaction with him. I want us safe from him and his harm. His escalating behaviours harm all of us. I’m sick and tired of it.

What should I do? Follow my gut?

Continue to explore a relationship? That doesn’t seem a healthy option right now.

Cut of ties temporarily? In a formal way? Perhaps.

I haven’t replied to his message. I’m going with my gut.

I certainly don’t want to see him. Stepping aside from that drama triangle is a hard thing to do...when son29 tries to drag me into it with his direct and very confrontational off-loading.

LP

Hi LP

It's good to hear from you, buddy! :wee:

Ugh, my alarm bells would be ringing too... sounds to me the text essay is a reaction to you saying 'lets speak about this next time we see you'? Rather than arms wide open, yes we'd love to meet her. Do you think he has an inkling he's in dangerous waters, spending time with a 15 year old?

Excerpt

Son29’s behaviour over Covid has been erratic. He’s narcissistic and his “forgiveness” will turn to full on perpetrator. I know I should stay in the present bit my biggest fear has moved up a level from fear of him committing to suicide to one of my own safety. There’s no suggestion he’d do me any physical harm but my fear of it has risen up.

LP, things sound as though they've really changed, he's upped the ante and he's focused on you. I'm glad you're here for support to centre yourself while you work this through. This is the first time I've heard you say he's narcistic and can turn full on perpetrator, but man acid, mind altering drugs anything can happen.

Have you acknowledged the text?

WDx

Oh WD, wonderful to see you’re here,

I haven’t acknowledged the text.

Son19 took it upon himself to call son29 tonight. Son19 said it was a bizarre conversation with son29 switching from accusatory, to victim, to perpetrator in an instant. Son19 sees there’s no reasoning with him. Also, son29 claiming powers, and that we all need to hear his truth so we can grow; he’s helping us. He claims he’s made an ex-gf in the USA fall back in love with him. Son19 says my husband should also expect a text essay from son29.

About a month ago, Son29 told me that he’s been leaving audio messages for two years on this ex-gf’s phone. Unsolicited contact without any response from her. Two whole years! He leaves a kind of diary. He says that she’s been talking to all her family and friends as he can tell they think he’s crazy. His reasoning is that they become “suggested friends” on his page which (apparently to him) means they’ve been viewing his profile. He’s convinced that he’s being stalked by them.

This is just one example of his behaviours since lockdown started and his programme began, I only found out last week when he told me a bit about what he’s been doing to treat himself,

LP

Excerpt

son29 is in an escalating manic episode

important observation and acknowledgement. Anything could have prompted this, he comes to you for support.

Excerpt

“I’m sorry for your pain. I can see that you’re thinking about your formative years and looking for answers. I feel that I can’t say anything to you without it being used again at me as you’ve made it clear that you blame me for a lot of things. What I want to say is that I love you very much and am so very glad we’ve got closer since you came home at 24. I felt we’d created a much healthier relationship and I’m happy that you've opened up to me to tell me how you are feeling. I love you. Mum x“

is good.

Excerpt

I think I need to say sorry for any pain I’ve caused you.

I'd leave this out, you may be opening a door he'll keep knocking down, his pain is because of you. He is in pain and does not know how to manage it.

Does that make sense to you?

WDx

Thank you Mggt

Having a place for support was a lifeline for me for a very long time. It’s good to know we’re not alone as we face a long journey finding ways to cope.

WD

I sent a text. I abandoned my short draft one because I re-read his a number of times and thought it through. I’d rather not put my reply up here as it’s rather long but I’m happy to share so pm me.

I hope I’ve managed to set a boundary (so he learns; he’s mentioned he couldn’t set one with me) by demonstration. He has no right to an opinion on my life before he was born. He has no right to an opinion of our marriage. He had a lot to say about both.

I talked a lot about my “therapy” which is basically my time here on the forum. I repeated the basic fundamentals of my learning and my old behaviours. He flips between being a victim, saviour and perpetrator. He’s also in “super fixer” mode as that was the intention of the text to me. He thinks he can change me.

He’s behaving like I used to with him. Accusing me of lots of things, criticising me, judging my life, telling me I’m mentally ill, that I’m full of self-loathing, emotionally immature, being superior, that I gaslighted him, making me feel I’m a bad mother and wife. There’s more too!

My response was a good one I think. I felt better taking control over the situation rather than appeasing or “doing a dance”. I talked the talk which in itself is a demonstration of behaviours I’d like to see in him.

No idea how he will receive it. To be honest, I’m almost past caring. My life’s moved on, I had a blip the last couple of days but I’ve reconciled it. If he wants a relationship with me then that’s up to him. If he’s resentful and accusatory then I’m not prepared to go forwards until he can demonstrate some healthy interactions.

I’m glad I replied. It was the respectful thing to do as he spent time and energy communicating his feelings. I had to prove I was listening.

Thanks everybody for your support.

LP

Awh Swimmy

Thank you. I really needed that. I’ve been feeling very disturbed and doubting myself.

Son29 visited son19 in work yesterday. Son19 told me that he wanted me to understand just how much son29 dislikes me right now. Son19 said he criticises you Mum and when I set him straight about a couple of things he tried to manipulate me by saying you’re a liar. Son19 feels uncomfortable and he wants me to understand what’s going on. He’s warning me.

Of course, this doesn’t match up to son29 and his texts. He says he loves me, I only have to ask for his help and support etc (because he sees me as depressed, fearful, mentally ill). I read the words knowing/feeling them to be untrue because I know him. He can’t love somebody he dislikes - he doesn’t have that emotional maturity. His action to black me has destroyed any trust I had in him.

I’ve been really upset. Something I haven’t been for years.

Upset that son19 is put in this position. He goes back to Uni this week and I’m very glad.

Upset for my husband, because suddenly son29 has declared Him golden and that he wants to spend more time with him. The fact is that my husband wanted me to disown son29 years ago but went along with my plan to try and restore the relationship for my sake.

We’d reached a reasonable place as a family. It took Us years and now it’s coming undone.

Husband Is old school and not a “touchy feely” type. He will not tolerate any criticism of me so I can’t see how any son/father bonding will work. Husband says “you’ve moved heaven and earth for him and he doesn’t understand I went along with it for you, not him”. Son29 says he’s going to send him a letter, husband says he’s going to not reply so I can see an escalation,

Meanwhile, there’s the issue of this young girl. I’ve reached out to my best friend for support and she happens to work in safeguarding. As she says, if you think a vulnerable person is at risk then “never do nothing”. In a normal situation, I’d guess I’d call the mother. But she’s a drug user and, let’s not forget, she agreed that son29 could spend time with this girl on their own without her, I don’t know this woman, only what son29 has said. She hates the police, rages and lives alternatively, dysfunctional. This is a moral dilemma. I believe son has manipulated his ex-gf and he tried to manipulate us to validate his relationship with a 15 year old. If he hadn’t blacked me, I think I’d have had some opportunity to talk this through with him in a way that he could hear me. Clearly, he’s on dangerous ground.

I’ve experienced “flight”, “disowning” and “retaliatory” reactions. I’ve not deleted him off my phone or blocked him. I’ve held myself down. I’ve cried. I’ve not contacted son29.

We wait. We get on with our lives.

Our house is up for sale. We were planning on staying in the area because we knew son29 needs our emotional support. However, given the recent changes it’s got us both re-thinking about location...I can no longer provide the emotional support because I’m blacked, husband doesn’t want to (nor does he have the skill set or the motivation - he wants to retire and live his life peacefully), son19 is not responsible for son29 and just resents him (there’s no respect or trust).

What a complicated mess,

Today, I’m going to walk the dogs, buy some food and make us a meal.

LP

A very wise person here, said to me when my DD was last in crisis, hang in there, is just what I needed to hear, I'm passing on to you. :hug: I spent that morning, ironing and listening to classical music, DD was in hospital. I can't think of a better way for you to spend time with your dear young DS19 ahead of his return to uni. Sunday dinner, with all the trimmings and love as he goes safely on his way. :hug:

Today is your day.

LP I am so very proud of what you've achieved, and continue to. I know it's not easy, preservation of family, is BPDFamily mission. I neither thought, you'd be where you are, DS now hurting you, his family. Upset, all around. You have shown us what can be achieved when loved ones are fearful, in denial of reaching out for professional help. That said, DS has tipped, is burdening you all, projecting, flipping between being a victim, saviour and perpetrator. What a professional BPD therapist dealings with, with support.

Again, today is your day, time to rest up, be you. :hug:

WDx :heart:

Hi WD

He replied Friday. He says we can now leave this and move on. “This” meaning talk of the past.

We haven’t spent much time together at all since Covid. He kept in regular phone contact calling every 2-3 days or so. This lessened as he spent more time at ex-gf’s in lockdown march through June. We went out for a family meal at the end of July. I think that was the last face to face meeting up we’ve had.

I got a missed call Sunday morning. I didn’t answer because I just didn’t want to talk to him. He text asking me for some login information he needed. So I guess he’s motivated to sort out his finance; he’s also made contact with two other family we don’t see very often. He says he’s going to visit them all. He’s on a mission to bring the family together. We think “good luck with that”. They’ve their own dysfunction and family tensions. And problems.

We’re curious to see how the family react to him...if he goes.

Meanwhile, I’m very busy this week seeing son19 off, a funeral, a house viewing and a weekend on chug chug boat. I’ll be distracted and so less anxious.

Not sure if I should call son29 to break the ice...this would be for him and not me. I can’t be bothered. I don’t feel I should be easing and thus enabling. I’m tired and foggy. I’ve done enough. I don’t want to partake in this new game he’s playing. I want off the ride.

I can see I should have been doing a regular health check on just how healthy a relationship I thought I had with him. I can see I put the priority on the four of us being OK with one another for an easy life. The cost has been too great. I needed better boundaries and have been quietly enabling.

This is endless. I’m wondering if it is indeed easier to walk away, certainly some space would be good.

LP

Hello Lollypop! :hi:

Indeed, this "old timer" is still here. *)

For the past couple of weeks my internet connection has been on a public hot spot. I could read but not log in. How frustrating that was for me because I so wanted to jump right in the moment I saw your post and give you the biggest hug.

While a smile came on my face when I saw your moniker show up...it then vanished as I read about the latest developments with Son29. Especially disturbing is his relationship with an unrestrained 15-year old girl. As a Mom you so want to believe in him...so want to believe it is a "friendship"... but your gut tells you differently. Do you bite your tongue for the sake of keeping up contact with him?

If anyone here has done their homework in relation to dealing with someone who suffers from mental illness, it is you. Over the past years of reading your posts, I have admired your strength...your resilience. You've worked hard to educate yourself on different ways to help this troubled son of yours...worked hard on keeping him part of the family unit. Dealing with his illness has put a tremendous strain on all of you. When is enough, enough? When do you salvage as much as you can, then change direction? When do you put the oxygen masks on yourselves? As you well know, those are questions only you can answer. Seems your husband and Son19 know theirs.

My husband and I have had to ask those questions of ourselves. We are much more advanced in age. Our storybook of woes with our daughter has many more chapters. We had hoped that this pandemic would help to bring healing with/within her...end our current 4-year-long period of being estranged but, if anything, her anger towards me has escalated. I do fear for my future safety so I have had to focus on a different kind of homework. In our case we have finally had to say...enough IS enough.

It is heart-wrenching for a parent to know their child is suffering. You and I both know that our beloved children are suffering. In wanting to make their lives better, ours and those of other family members have been damaged. I have managed... at times... to get comfort in repeating The Prayer of Serenity. On my down-days I work on reminding myself that better days can and do come. Good-days/bad-days. Hmmmm?...I guess that is referred to as...Life.

To repeat the words in one of Wendydarling's posts...”Hang in there!” I so agree with her that you should re-think offering anymore apologies to Son29. You've done that and to continue is to enable him to shirk responsibilities for his own actions.

The future may not be what you originally wanted it to be...but, with work, it just might turn out to be not-so-bad. You've done the best you could do, Lollypop, and you WILL continue to do so. The trials and tribulations you have been through have molded you into the strong, caring, accomplished person you are today (for sure more "molding" to come). Wow! :wee: Good on you!

((HUGS)... :hug:...from Huat ; )

Oh Huat, how I love your responses. It’s like a comfort blanket with knobs on. A challenging blanket.

I hadn’t picked up on WD’s intimation of re-thinking apologies. I’m so glad you pointed this out,

I spoke with my favourite cousin in the US this week. Of course she asked about my kids. She could tell by my reply, eldest was troublesome. She said this laughing::

“You know, I speak with my two girls and I tell them both, when the eldest came I scrxxed up. I just didn’t know what I was doing. My second was a boy And I xxrewxx up again. I had no idea about boys. I did ok by my third child”.

She made me laugh at her good humour and honesty. Somehow, in the trials and tribulations our humour rises above and below...almost disappearing.

Our youngest leaves us tomorrow. He’s sad to go, we are sad he leaves. But we are confident he’ll be ok. .

Meanwhile, I lick our wounds. No contact from son29 yet.

Me and husband spoke this evening. We both feel done for now. As husband says, he’s dropped a grenade on us and I think he expects us to rally around him. We sit tight.

I read the section on Boundaries on this site and then watched the video about getting them into treatment.

This rang true;

“Without a relationship there is no recovery or treatment”.

But at what cost?

The price may by too high for us. The cost is too high,

I hope you and your husband are doing ok Huat. You’ve been a glorious inspiration to me. We want to retire and live a simple, peaceful and contented life. A life Ok, despite the problem of heartache. I may by new to being blacked but I read so many times here stories of how that feels it’s like I’m prepared. Suffering is through attachment.

I’m started to envisage a new cloak, a humble one. I don’t need to be a super power any longer, it’s time to let go. We love him. My guilt continues to be raw...but, you know, for chrxxt’s sake I did my best. I’m not going to be a punch bag. If I’m not good enough then I’ll be ok.

LP

Hello back Lollypop

Nice to read you got to have a few laughs with that State's side cousin of yours. We all need people like her in our lives. What a stress releaser it is when we manage to laugh.

So now Son19 is off and gone to university. Wow! Your nest is really empty. No matter how prepared you think you were for this send-off, I am sure this is playing in your mind as you also wrestle with the problems of Son29...kind of like a double whammy for you. Thankfully I had a dog who adored me at the time the door closed behind our son when he finally ventured out on his own. That faithful companion licked my tears while my husband nestled into his easy chair to watch the next game on TV. The kid left...what's the problem?

No matter what your cousin says about "getting things right by the time the 3rd one came along", it really is nature/nuture. Some of the brightest stars have come from the most humble/dysfunctional upbringings. Vice-versa are those who have been born into much. yet make a mess of their lives.

You write..."My guilt continues to be raw..." I would venture a guess that each of us have those moments of reflection...think back and wonder..."if I had only..." For instance, with this troublesome daughter :( of ours who first ran away at age 12, if I had only handled myself differently, quite possibly all of our lives would have turned out much better. I fell apart...she took control...the stage was set for years of subsequent jaw-dropping kinds of behaviour. Even though at the time I had no education on how to deal with an out-of-control child, should I feel guilty now?

Guilt is a powerful emotion...a necessary emotion that helps to keep us on the straight-and-narrow. When we know we are doing wrong, the weight is felt...and so it should be. With that said, and in relation to these troubled individuals who share our lives, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time. When we know better...we do better. That is an accomplishment that we should pride ourselves on...not slow ourselves down, hinder our progress, with the weight of guilt. Easier said than done...always a work-in-progress for me.

For sure not an easy road ahead for you, Lollypop. Son29 is proving himself to be a "package of head-shaking surprises." You just come to grips with one...then comes another. Well, you've proven yourself, too. No one can call you a wimp!

About this present situation with Son29 you write..."I'm thinking about this. I know the answer is clear." Well, if is clear today and then not so clear tomorrow...be patient with yourself. You are trying your best...but keep in mind you are limited as to what you can do.

Good luck on the buying and selling of homes...an exciting :wee: new-beginning for you and hubby. Keep sharing...keep us posted.

((HUGS) :hug: from Huat

Hello friend, I'm late to your post but wanted to offer a hug and two listening ears :hug:

What a roller coaster s29 is on, and what determination to persuade others to get on there with him.

I agree with WD, it does sound like he's in a manic/psychotic phase, no thanks to the drugs. I also wonder if he feels he is somehow "repairing" this 15yo's father figure issues. This may be giving him an outsized idea that he is good at family, something he must experience tremendous shame about given his history with his own.

When SD23 experiences (her version of) genuine intimacy, she can become manic. Could this be happening with S29? It's at the extreme edges of mood where things seem to go off the rails, often instigated by relationship stressors, at least for SD23. And there are always relationship stressors.

Also a bit curious about the sibling dynamic and timing of S19's departure to uni. My uBPD brother upstaged every big life moment I had with some kind of dysregulation. Not sure that's quite the right fit given what you've described but with uBPD brother and SD23, there definitely seems to be a remarkable intuition for drama when someone else is experiencing a big moment.

Has S29 responded to your message?

Thank you LnL

I believe his deep reflection of his childhood has raised his emotions as he relives moments/memories from his child perspective. He’s somehow got stuck in the past with a mixture of truth, fantasy and delusional sense of his own self-importance. He truly believes he’s physically different with powers and that I’m going to like him. He repeated this a lot in his texts. They are raw and rambling and hurtful. He knew they’d hurt but his need was the greater; it had to be said in his eyes.

There’s a reluctant acknowledgement that things have been better over the last few years, but his feelings of mistrust and disdain have been brought to the fore from these relived memories and skewed beliefs.

We have our house up for sale, we talk about our retirement plans, plus son19 now left for Uni. I think you’re right about the drama creation And of course these are big happenings and he struggles to cope.I think it’s also been exacerbated because we have had such limited physical contact with him in Covid. He’s twisted this to an idea that we are living in total fear.

Son has revisited family over the weekend. He’s been welcomed with open arms it seems. We’ve waited with bated breath to have some feedback on how it’s all gone. Has anybody notice he is behaving oddly? No, because he chose to not see them for years. With only the odd snippet “he’s really changed”, “he’s had a good time” to “you must be so very proud” I’m understanding it’s going to take some restraint from us. I visit my sister later this week. I’d love to be able to get some support from her but as husband says .”poisoning his well” may not be the right thing to do. I’m going to need a response to her wonderful view of him. My goodness, he’s a charmer and master manipulator.

In answer to your question, he did reply and we had a small interchange. I could tell he was irritated by my tone. He left it with “we are both now free”, “regardless of what you say and what you’ve done it does not detract from my truth”. The truth being that I’m mentally ill, caused all his problems, have been a terrible mother and wife.

We haven’t spoken since the 16th August. This is highly unusual as he normally calls every 2-3 days. Normally, he likes to laugh and share his work experiences or stories. There is now a big silence.

I really need advice. I’m not sure there’s any point in trying to reach out. Whatever I say or do will be used against me. I’m also thinking about his words “we are both free”. He cut the tie and actually it’s a relief in a way. I swing around emotionally and been very tearful, husband too. We’ve walked this walk before, we are so much more aware, but this time it feels different. The feeling of physical sickness of anxiety is sadly back.

My gut says “do nothing”. Wait. We are at stalemate. I can see this lasting a very long time. It’s not something that can be recovered from I believe.

I’m trying to control myself as I’ve got words like “you’ll be sorry when I’m dead” going through my head sometimes. Hardly helpful.

There’s no way, we believe, son29 can maintain this level of energy as his new person living this new life...

Son29 keeps saying he’s going to text and/or speak to husband. I’ve no idea what husband plans on saying. It’s strange, his gaslighting really has affected me and made me doubt myself, my role and responsibility.

I can’t even remember what question I need answering LnL.

Thanks for replying to me

LP

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

He truly believes he’s physically different with powers and that I’m going to like him.

Oh my. That must be hard to hear and respond to. I don't know what I'd do if I heard that from a loved one.

Blink I suppose :(

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

I’m going to need a response to her wonderful view of him. My goodness, he’s a charmer and master manipulator.

That's the hardest, isn't it? When family isn't on the same page about the state of someone's reality. When we have challenging children it can feel doubly hard to have strained family relationships elsewhere.

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

He left it with “we are both now free”, “regardless of what you say and what you’ve done it does not detract from my truth”.

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

There is now a big silence.

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

I’m not sure there’s any point in trying to reach out.

This is so painful to read, Lollypop. All the hard work and careful skill building, the belief in his ability to live independently and manage his life come to this point. Heart breaking.

My son's psychiatrist says by training he does not believe we do things by accident, and I'm thinking of that while reading about S29. Why now, S29? He seems to be self-sabotaging in a way that seems different from what he's done before.

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

Whatever I say or do will be used against me. I’m also thinking about his words “we are both free”. He cut the tie and actually it’s a relief in a way. I swing around emotionally and been very tearful, husband too. We’ve walked this walk before, we are so much more aware, but this time it feels different. The feeling of physical sickness of anxiety is sadly back.

An awful feeling :( especially after a spell without it. You learn to feel good and then it comes back like a truck. I have so much less tolerance for that feeling now that I'm aware how to create a life without it. I wish you and H peace getting through this, LP.

Quote from: Lollypop on August 31, 2020, 04:36:15 PM

My gut says “do nothing”. Wait. We are at stalemate. I can see this lasting a very long time. It’s not something that can be recovered from I believe.

I'm glad you came back to share and let us walk with you. These relationships sure can bring us to our knees can't they.

Thank you again LnL

The timing is Covid as he had a break from normal routines.

A reflective time for us all.

We came up with the feeling that we wanted a different way of living and brought forward retirement plans. Son29 on the other hand chose to self medicate with acid to fix himself.

As his power and confidence grows (as he sees it) he can build a new life for himself. He gets to choose. I remember we used to talk about a power toolkit on the forum, that’s what he thinks he has. I talk about creating a curiosity in them, when we are practising our new interaction skills. He’s demonstrating the same, he believes he uses the right words. I’m not joking. It’s like a massive mirroring.

I did the work. He took pills.

He no longer needs me.

He feels fixed.

It’s quite simple really.

I became too empathetic without good limits and boundaries. Of course, currently he has no empathy but who knows? Maybe that will come..

I feel “lesser” because of this situation I’m in. I want to curl up. I’m small. He’s large. That was his intention.

When I came to this forum LBJ was here. She helped me so much in my early days. She had to leave. There are no happy endings, only a happier life despite the problems. I felt I’d got to a place of comfortable mutual acceptance and respect. My rug was taken from under me. I’ve seen it happen to others. It’s life.

H says “he’s thrown a grenade in with the letter, it can never be taken back.” Nope, it can’t.

Thanks for making me laugh with your “blink”. Strange I can get away with a blink but not a raised eyebrow :)

Looks like I’ve got my freedom. Be careful what you wish for. I’ll be ok.

LP

Ps.have a great day LnL

I feel better because by writing we sort Our thoughts.

We’ve both been allowing ourselves done time to re-balance and our thoughts to settle down.

Excerpt

. I also wonder if he feels he is somehow "repairing" this 15yo's father figure issues. This may be giving him an outsized idea that he is good at family, something he must experience tremendous shame about given his history with his own.

LNL:
Yes, I think so too. He got triggered because I didn’t immediately agree to meet her. He’s taken on repairing his relationships with all members of our family who he had rejected for years...there’s 5 others plus us 3.

The relationship between the four of us has been different for the last 6 months. Son19 has needed a lot of emotional support and we’ve got much closer (less focus on son29). There’s competition between them.

These are my thoughts right now.

I did my best. He told me I’m not good enough.

I’m sorely tempted to have this as my epitaph :hug:

My husband also shared with me yesterday. He’s come a very long way on this journey with his own emotional resilience. He particularly struggled to accept our son29 and his addictive behaviours.

He says he doesn’t want to play son’s game. If he’s contacted he’s going to ignore it.

I gulped. I said “we’ll be back to tears tomorrow”. He agreed that we bounce around right now. .

Now, if I were my husband and I was in his situation I’d behave differently. We’ve got some more work to do to agree just how we will stand together.

My potential phrase for the family will be

“I’m so glad you’ve all had a great time together. He doesn’t like me much right now but I’m sure things will sort themselves out eventually”.

Light as a fairy. I’d rather be a bull in a china shop... :)

LP

Ah, the curved ball came in sideways.

A short nicey text to me asking for some family birthday information. My jaw dropped, (not our birthdays) we haven’t received cards for years. Gosh, this IS going to be a circus show. To be honest, I’m amazed he uses his calendar! ,

He’s behaving like there’s nothing wrong. Safety in that zone isn’t there.

Perhaps he’s testing the water because he can feel a tension. Perhaps he’s completely unaware that’s he’s upset us. Perhaps he knows we are upset. In which case for the latter two suggestions, this would be some reassurance that he’s unwell (which we know).

My light as a fairy approach was OK to a point. A word of warning to you reader.

I bent too far in my attempt to try to solidify the family.

This approach helped me ignore my biggest weakness...setting limits.

We enter into new limit territory, new learning. It comes regardless if he’s in our life or not.

LP

Ps. Drug addiction sucks and wrecks families. Just sayin.

Quote from: Lollypop on September 02, 2020, 04:00:03 AM

My light as a fairy approach was OK to a point. A word of warning to you reader.

I bent too far in my attempt to try to solidify the family.

This approach helped me ignore my biggest weakness...setting limits.

Ooof, LP. I learned this too, the hard way.

If we're not careful we can end up with tire marks on the back of our head.

I do wonder about the role of memory in BPD. Shari Manning writes about it in Loving Someone With BPD and while it makes sense when I read it, I'm never sure how to fully connect it with BPD behaviors. I remember reading something a woman with BPD wrote, about how she came home to find her home on fire, not realizing until someone told her that she was the one who burned it down.

Quote from: Lollypop on September 02, 2020, 04:00:03 AM

We enter into new limit territory, new learning. It comes regardless if he’s in our life or not.

So much is unfolding. I imagine the uncertainty must feel very unnerving, not to mention the after effects of his earlier behavior. Like emotional whiplash.

Did you respond with the family birthday information?

Quote from: Lollypop on September 02, 2020, 04:00:03 AM

Drug addiction sucks and wrecks families

Yes they do.

Do you have something you can turn to for self-care while the circus goes on?

Hi LnL

Yes, I replied but just with the information he asked for. He “hoped I had a good weekend” which is a statement not a question. I know I’m being trite.

I’m currently in an oil painting group as I learn how to push paint around. It’s been my lifeline in Covid. I graduated as a mature fine art student last year. I miss that routine and the young people I was with.

I go away to visit my sister tomorrow until Sunday. I could pick up my mother in law and bring her back for a few days. I’ve not see either since before Xmas and early February respectively.

The thing is, I’m dreading it. They’ll both be full of son’s visit and how well he’s doing. I think I can cope with a short and early conversation but if they go on and on I think I’ll scream.

There’s also the problem of having my mother in law here. I would normally invite son to join us for a meal. I didn’t want to make the first step. I think it’d be best if he felt the gulf or reached a point that he either wanted to see me or needed to see me. I think this is important. However, I can’t tell my
Mother in law what’s been going on.

Me inviting him here for a meal just feels wrong. I’m angry and upset. I can’t pretend happy families. Not right now. Am I unreasonable?

I feel guilty about my mother in law already...I haven’t invited her yet.

LP

Hi WD

My trip north went very well. I think it was useful for them to have the opportunity to get to spend some time with son29 and then tell me about it. It’s like they were ready to feel positively about him. I stuck to my planned reply and it was good to practice it on my sister. But It didn’t take too long for their concerns to pop up.

He stayed one night at his favourite cousins and they stayed up late talking. She told him straight about the step daughter - “she’s not your responsibility, this will ruin your life”. My MIL warned him that people will get the wrong impression, she wanted to say more to him but backed off. I was relieved and it felt good to have family support. I’ve no idea what my BIL said but can guess.

I felt my sister gave good counsel to me. I didn’t go into exact detail about the letter but did say he blamed me for everything, including his addiction.. She said to me that it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, our adult children make their own choices about their lives, we must not expect them to say sorry or feel responsible for their wrongs because, in her own story, her daughter would never say sorry because she hasn’t the maturity yet.

I see this isn’t in line with our views on validating the invalid. Something I’ve always found difficult to negotiate.

Recently I shifted to my old too hard thinking. I also should have asked him to come round and talk to us earlier as my inaction was escalating my own thoughts and in the dangerous karpman triangle.

H had spent the weekend thinking about the situation too. He’d softened.

We called son29 that evening. We do joint speaker calls now so his Dad is included. Son29 spoke about this step dad role and we asked some questions to understand (he could feel that we wanted to understand). If what he’s said is true.

Heard nothing all week from son29. He has never written that letter to his Dad, despite telling us all individually he would do so. I’m curious as to why not...I think he’s scared...I think deep down inside he has a doubt about how he’s perceived things. Perhaps, he’s also reflected on the family advice given to him by the family.

We called again yesterday. The call was friendly but it was clear he’s struggling emotionally as he’s set himself the task to understand the current political, environmental and Covid situation. He sounded bleak but he needed to understand so he could decide how he was going to help change the world. Setting aside our feelings about this, it must be exhausting for him.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. It helps me reflect.

Son29 feels less powerful than he did, some reality is hitting him.

There’s been good consequences of his sending me the horrid letter. I’ve also reconnected with the family. H and I are together now in most interactions with both sons. We are making an effort to be better to each other and with our sons who live away from us.

Trying to stay connected.

Thanks everybody for your words of advice and support. I’m rebalanced, mindful and enjoying my spare time.

LP
Ps. It seems so long WD and I’ve thought of you and your daughter often in lockdown.

Hi there pals

Knock sideways by the unexpected wrath from son, I got knocked off my perch and I got caught up in a new rollercoaster ride for a wee while. I tried to steady myself and found the best remedy was to allow some time to pass. Doing “nothing”, is an action in itself. It took a lot of determination to not dwell on his words and false accusations.

Things have settled down. We talk a few times each week.

I saw son29 last week for the first time since July. It went ok and it was at his instigation. He needed my help and, of course, I wouldn’t refuse. Not only is he more resilient in dealing with his finance affairs, I’m more resilient at emotionally detaching myself from his problems.

We have sold our house and are now actively trying to find a new home. We’ve chosen to stay in the area...for ourselves as it’s a lovely part of England...but for both of our sons. We try to be a family, as best as we can. In fact, we all are trying our best. Son29 seems much less delusional - to be honest, I accept he’s just not a very nice person. I’m not sure he can truly love anybody unconditionally. He can say the right words but it’s his actions that shows us that he’s just not interested...not emotionally connected.

Covid has forced a physical separation and there’s been consequences. I’ve learnt I can’t win with bpd...only accept.

I hope you’re both ok HUAT and WD. I hope you’re living a good life for yourselves.

LP

LP :hi: that's such a good reminder 'doing nothing' is an action. I am glad to hear things settled down for you, and DS instigated your meet up I would guess prompted by both your actions and 'doing nothing' action.

Excerpt

Not only is he more resilient in dealing with his finance affairs,

YOU taught him how to manage his finances, using skills and tools you learnt here :wee:

Excerpt

I’m more resilient at emotionally detaching myself from his problems.

YOU learnt how to 'detach with love' here :wee:

Does DS know it is unacceptable for him to send you his wrath through texts because he's dysregulating big time, drugging ... and wanted to be heard.

BPD/NPD I understand may appear similar. You mentioned you think you are seeing NPD traits, lack of empathy... I just wanted to share that DD was totally unable to be empathetic when she was in crisis, she was consumed by her. Now she cites empathy as one her strengths as many with BPD do. Then I think about DS receiving a BPD diagnosis in the US, while not meeting the criteria in the UK. You may recall at one point we wondered about schizoaffective and more recently DD was questioning if bi-polar too. No pure BPD, it seems to be.

Excerpt

I’ve learnt I can’t win with bpd...only accept.

you can accept and you can take winning steps forward :(

How's the house search going LP? So excited for you!

WDx

BPDFamily.com

Children, Parents, or Relatives with BPD => Son, Daughter or Son/Daughter In-law with BPD => Topic started by: Lollypop on August 17, 2020, 04:00:30 PM