BPDFamily.com

Hey guys, I'm back on this board from bettering.

5 years together with ex BPD with quite a few recycles. The last breakup lasted 9 months and last August we got back together. Things were going better than they had previously but eventually devaluation and then she breaks up with me again.

When we started talking again in August she friended me on Facebook. It had been a while since we are friends on there. At one point she even blocked me for a year-and-a-half on there. Eventually I noticed this guy kept clicking hearts and commenting on her things. It was quite obvious he was chasing after her. I didn't say anything to her but her and I were tagging each other and saying I love you and she was sharing memory pictures of us and all sorts of things. Quite obvious we were together. This guy knew.

Eventually she tells me this guy is flirting with her and she deletes him as a friend. He sends her a few friend request and it annoys her. She tells me he came through her checkout line at Walmart that she works and she told him that if it didn't work out between her and I that she would not get with him.

In November she gets upset with me and tells me we need to take a break. She still wants to spend Thanksgiving together. We spend it together and it feels like we were back together. Cuddling, sex, texting each other daily and the I love yous.

A week and a half later she start acting quiet, not responding to I love you, Etc. I start questioning. When she finally tells me she tells me that it bothers her we are pretending to be together when we're not. She tells me we are not together.

A week after that the guy that was chasing her on Facebook is hanging out with her at her apartment now. Apparently she is seeing him. I'm hurt and angry and let her know. Then I block her on Facebook for the first time and unfollow her on another app we use. She is angry at me for this.

A few weeks later I find out this guy is a convicted child molester. Now I am quite concerned for her 8 year old and 10 year old children. I stopped by her apartment and asked if we can talk. She says yes and invites me in. She is actually pretty decent. I tell her my concern and she tells me she knows. He told her. Okay, I just wanted to make sure she knew. The conversation ends up in our relationship and of course it's all my fault as always. A few times she makes the comment even if her and this other guy were together... I guess her way of telling me they aren't. Not sure what her point a saying this is. Even if they're not together it's obvious they are seeing each other. Maybe so I don't walk completely away in case it doesn't work out with him?

One kind of odd thing though. My ex-wife and I are quite good friends. When my ex BPD and I got together years ago my ex-wife was very accepting of her. It looked like they would get along great. Over the years their relationship fell apart. Recently the relationship between my ex BPD and my younger son fell apart as well. Up to now they had a great relationship. When she tells me that we are not together she does tell me that she still wants to fix the relationship between her and my ex-wife and her and my son. Okay, whatever. Now she is with this guy and I'm out of the picture but yet the other day my ex-wife was surprised and a little annoyed and shows me the message my ex BPD sent her. My ex BPD said that even though her and I are not together that she would like to work on her relationship with my ex-wife. She said that she still cares about them. What is the point of building a relationship with my family now when you are with someone else and we're not together? The only thing I can think is what somebody told me once. They do things like this to keep some sort of a connection with you. An indirect connection but a connection.

At this point however, I am very angry at her and this guy. I feel like she lied to me and left me for this guy and this guy I feel is no better than the guy that my ex-wife cheated on me with and left me for. I am also very hurt. I really doubt things will last between them very long. With the exception of her second marriage and me, the relationships of hers that I do know about have not lasted very long. Anywhere from one month to 7 months. On top of that if the kids' father finds out about this guy's past he will have her in court trying to get those kids. Being with her for 5 years and knowing him I believe that 100%.

Hey Carguy,

Sorry to read what you're going through. Doesn't sound very enjoyable at all. That said, how can we help? Your post makes it sound like you're not entirely sure what you want? If you're here simply to get it off your chest, I'm here to read :)

Hi GD and thanks. It's Hell.

I guess I am kind of struggling with what I want. Right now I think I just need distance from her. I hurt. My post was getting things off my chest and some of it looking for answers, opinions, or something to verify if the answers that I have to my questions are correct and logical or not so I can better understand what is going on and know how to handle and react to it. I'm also just looking for some moral support.

Carguy, I am really sorry to hear all that...I am going thru a different, but similar tragic ending (an ending for me I mean, not you as things might be up in the air as to what you want) as well...you are not alone...be glad to listen to anything you might want to say out here to help provide moral support. 

Hello Carguy,

I remember reading your posts last summer. At that time, you and your ex had broken up and were really not communicating unless you ran into her at the store she worked at. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you again, but it sounds like behavior straight out of the BPD playbook.

I agree that it's odd that your ex wants to repair her relationship with your ex-wife and also with your son. From my personal experience, pwBPD struggle in all relationships no matter if they are romantic in nature, with friends, co-workers, or family members. My BPD ex-wife can't maintain a healthy relationship with anyone. It sounds like your ex-g/f is the same way. The same can be said for my uBPD ex-g/f, only her BPD traits weren't as bad as my ex-wife (ex-wife had strong Narc traits well).

Also, I've learned through counseling and in this forum that pwBPD love attention and can't get enough hosts/attachments. The more the merrier and all are invited to play as they say.  Most of us can only take so much and have to get off of the rollercoaster. Your ex-wife and son are attachments in a sense for your ex-g/f.

I have to maintain some degree of contact with my ex-wife, as we have a child together. If it weren't for that, I would go NC completely with her. Sadly, nothing good or healthy ever comes out of having any contact with her.  However, I've set better boundaries with her over the years. When I do reply to her, it's always short, to the point, and very matter of fact. If I stray from that, usually her BPD is triggered, and I get all kinds of nonsensical, irrational correspondence from her. When she gets in that frame of mind, I just ignore, ignore, ignore. My ex-g/f and I split last April. I went NC with her in May but started hearing from her again in September through December. There was a brief in person visit from her around the middle of November. I got the distinct impression that she was feeling me out each time. It seems like they all do this at one time or another, most of the time when you least expect it. Luckily I was able to stay semi-strong and just be very matter of fact with her. Sometimes I didn't even reply or acknowledge her at all. However, this contact from her did trigger my emotions, and the ruminations started again. I still miss her terribly some days, but I do not miss the unhealthy parts of the relationship.  It's been about 3 weeks since I last heard from her. I've been feeling a lot better over the last several days.

Stay strong and take care of yourself.

Hey Carguy, Only you know when it's time to get off the roller coaster.  If you're unsure, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  Are you ready to detach, or are you hoping for a recycle?  You call the shots, my friend.  Most of us on this Board are a pretty jaded bunch, because we've been though the BPD wringer.  I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  Try to find the best path for You.

LuckyJim

Thanks guys. I've always found it helps me to talk to others who understand BPD and have been there. Reading other stories helps a lot too. When I'm reading their stories a lot of times it is exactly what she's been doing. Some of the things I read even bring up memories of things she did that I forgot about.

Cash,

 I'm sorry that you are going through the same thing. It's hard for all of us. Thank you so much for the support.

Brighter Future,

Last Summer she was more angry at me then she had ever been. I really didn't know if she would ever talk to me again. Finally in August when I went into the store and seen her I asked her if we could talk. Previous to that I had been 2 months completely off the radar. I just disappeared and she didn't see or hear from me at all. That seemed to give her time to miss me a little or something. We talked and immediately she wanted to be back with me. She even told me that seeing me she realized that she still loved me after she had been trying to completely erase everything of me out of her life. This time I don't think she is so angry. She was when I got upset at her and blocked her but we talked a little less than a week ago when I went to warn her about this guy and she didn't seem too upset. I don't think she is quite so hateful this time.

It is odd. I have noticed in the five years with her that she does struggle with all relationships. When we first got together she had a female best friend. Shortly after we got together they had a falling out. She told me some of what happened and I didn't want to take sides but to me it seems like a lot of it was her. In the five years we were together she didn't have a best friend. She hung out with a girlfriend maybe twice during the five years. Last summer when we went apart for 9 months she found another female best friend. They must have had a falling-out because she is nowhere around anymore. I've also noticed she struggles with co-workers. In the five years we were together she changed jobs three different times because she couldn't get along with coworkers and she is back at Walmart and when they moved her to Pharmacy recently she was struggling there with co-workers. The only family she has here is her father and they are not on speaking terms either.

Mine has some pretty strong narcissistic traits as well. A year-and-a-half into our relationship when the narcissism started really coming out it was really confusing. I have never been with someone that's narcissistic like that. I couldn't understand what was going on. It took me doing some research to figure out the narcissism. It wasn't until I started talking to a therapist that he pointed out it was BPD.

I think you're right on loving attention. I think hers may be a little more subtle but she is very friendly to a lot of people and always asking how they are doing and giving them hugs and going out of her way to say hi to them. None of them are close friend. I always thought it was very sweet of her and that she was very caring. I think she is but I wonder if some of it is the attention she receives as well? She also does Suicide Prevention videos on her Facebook and also has recently started posting them to Tik Tok and YouTube. I think it's awesome she does this with somebody pointed out that that might be for attention as well. I don't know. I also have to question if she really is interested in this guy for a relationship or if she is just enjoying the attention. When we were together he was showering her with attention on Facebook and she was acting annoyed by it. I'm sure he is showering her now as well. The other day she kept saying even if they were together... apparently telling me that they aren't. I'm surprised she is spending time with him given his history and her having kid. If the kid's father found out she has to know that I would cause problems for herself. Also what kind of future could they have? From what I have found out the laws in our state say if the victim was under 14 (the person was) then she has to sign a permission slip for him to be around her kids for each occurrence that he is. I doubt they would do that but what if her kids friends want to come over? He also can't go to a public park, public playground, public swimming pool, schools, or daycares. What kind of life would that be for her or her kids? I'm sure she had to thought about all this. This is why I wonder if she is just enjoying the attention. He's doing all the trying and she's just enjoying it maybe?

I really do think my wife and son are attachments. Last summer during those night months apart she did some unusual things like that as well. She was so angry at me but yet sent my son a friend request on Facebook. She did some other things too. I asked an online counselor who specializes in NPD and BPD and she said that is a way for her to keep some kind of connection. She said they would rather have a messed up, dysfunctional connection to you then no connection at all. It kind of make sense to me.

As far as her contacting me, just going off of our past I think it would have to be me that initiated contact. It seems like 98% of the time in our history I'm the one that had to initiate it. She won't. That being said I think I need to just stay away and and not talk to her for a while and see where I am after a bit.

It's interesting how no matter where at in the world they are they seem to play from the same Playbook. Even the therapist I talk to online said that.

Lucky Jim,

Thank you. I think I need to just stay away for awhile and then evaluate where I'm at. Emotions are still raw and fresh right now.

Hey Carguy, I think you are wise to wait and let the water clear before determining your next move.  In the meantime, suggest you be kind to yourself.  LJ

Hi Carguy

Good to hear from you, if you remember we talked before, i can recall a little about when the previous split up and she saw you at the car show?

We tried to figure it out, can I ask if you ever made sense of that time, was she trying to make you jealous or get attention? Im interested because there's some of it now again, confusing behavior.

The last thing about your own emotions, being raw and fresh. There's anger, some for her some for the guy she's hanging around with.

I wanted to ask if there's any guilt? How do you feel about chasing her/waiting for her, when it's clearly a relationship that has brought with it a lot of grief, upset, anger and distress.

Thanks LJ.

Hi Cromwell. Good to hear from you too.

I'm pretty sure that the car show was both. Making me jealous by flaunting the other guy and for attention. Maybe even to see if I would start chasing her again? The interesting thing is, when we started talking again in August and catching up on what each of us had been up to over the nine-month period that we were apart she told me that she was in a pin-up girl contest at the car show. The way she was telling me was like she was unaware I was there. I know she seen me though. Maybe she thought I didn't see her. You think some of this confusing behavior is possibly for attention?

Another confusing thing she did the other day was during my lunch break. I went through the drive-through at Burger King and turned left around the building and went over and parked in the parking lot by our Main Street. While eating I looked up and she had drove by. She continued down the street and turned at Walmart a few blocks down. A minute later I looked out the side window of my car a little back and she had taken one of the side streets back over to Burger King coming through a petroleum company's parking lot across the intersecting Street from me. She got in the Drive-Thru line and I finished eating and left. As I drove down the street I could see she was getting ready to come around the building where she would drive behind where I was parked instead of turning to the right and going out on the next street over. This was before we talked the other day.

You are right. I feel anger towards her and even more anger toward the guy. A lot of the reason I feel anger towards him is because he was chasing after her on Facebook and going in the store and flirting  with her even though he knew we were together. It brings up a lot of old emotions from when my ex-wife cheated on me with a guy that was doing the same thing and then left me for him.

As far as guilt, I'm not really sure. I guess I've never really thought about my guilt. I will be honest, I have stalked her a little online and drove by her apartment a time or two in the past. It always made me feel a little guilty. As far as chasing and waiting for her when the relationship has brought me these things, it has been weighing heavy on my mind. My heart misses her and if I'm honest really wants her to chase me and make me feel wanted but my head remembers the hurt and stress.

Hey Carguy,


I’m remember your posts. I want to add to what you said here the time that you spent apart asking gave her to get over the negative feelings about you. Right after you stopped seeing other her feelings were probably 100% negative and a month passed now they’re at 80% negative but some of the positive feelings are starting to come back.


You gave her enough time and didn’t chase her. There were more good thoughts and feelings about you than negative ones and that worked for you.


There’s a pattern that’s been established with you for five years and it’s probably something that you’ve both become accustomed to. You understand that she’s not going to chase you - you can read her well with this behavior.

On the one hand if you chase her now she’s going to have the attention of two guys. It’s going to inflate her ego a little bit right?

She’s also going to be in control.

What I would do is think about your values. How does it sit with me when my gf is being chased by other guys? What is my boundary?

Let’s say hypothetically you got back together set your boundaries at the beginning of the r/s and say if there’s someone else while we’re together  - it’s finished full stop.

If she’s thinking about getting out the r/s and wanting to test other r/s and she knows what the consequences are then she might think more carefully about it. Maybe she was impulsive but if there are consequences to her choices and you stick to the ground rules then either she’ll come back to you or it’s really going to be over.

The behaviors that are consequently having a negative affect on your r/s stop or you’ll find someone that will respect you. The pay off might be sooner or it will be later but things will eventually improve in your r/s’s.

That being said, at least you’ll feel respect and feel like you have self respect.

I think and maybe other will say differently but I don’t think she was done with the r/s maybe she wasn’t ready to come back to a fully committed r/s - I would suggest to ignore that but just tell her that you’re done if there’s someone else.

Think about you want out this r/s with her but be centered if you get back together and follow through with your boundaries if she disrespects them.

If she’s trying to stay friends with you I agree I agree with what the other poster said. I don’t think she’s ready to let you go but I think there’s an pattern that’s established you know she’s going to act and she probably knows your pattern as well. Nothing changes without change.

If she has two guys chasing her it’s going to go to her head a little bit.

Carguy, sounds like the guy is getting the blame mostly.

Be careful when upset and going for emotional drives. Google maps isn't stalking, you are not a stalker. It's emotional turbulence and you've proven that it passes eventually.

 want her to chase you, had 9 months apart, still to ask to clarify, do you need her to chase you?

Carguy...let it go...there is no point really...not for self...we can analyze everything to death over their slightest moves...let it go...sounds like you are in an ok place after time off...leave it that way...memory is a good thing, but the real point is being able to forget and move on...

Hey Mutt, good to hear from you again.

I remember you telling me about how over time she would have fewer and fewer negative feelings and more positive feelings towards me. When I started talking to her again in August I could see how right you were!

This time while we were together it was actually better than it had been in a long time. We were communicating better and working through things. Unfortunately she became upset with me over what I feel was a misunderstanding and ended it.

There is a pattern for sure. Other than a week ago when I talked to her I have tried to keep a distance. I didn't think about two guys chasing her and it inflating her ego. I can very much see that happening though. Even more reason to stay away and not chase. I didn't think about it from the idea of it putting her in control either. That is a very good point.

I agree with you on setting boundaries if I was to hypothetically get back together with her. I'm not sure yet if I would but if that were to happen I think that is important at this point. To me I feel like if she wanted to come back and after her and I talked and if i agreed to take her back, I feel like I would have to tell her that either this guy is completely out of the picture or I am. And if she decides there is another relationship that she want to jump out of ours to see where it goes then that's it. I went through this three times with my ex-wife. The third time I was done and filed for a divorce. I'm not doing it again.

When you say that you don't think she was done with the relationship are you talking about last summer or now?

She wanted to be friends but then the one day that I stopped by her apartment and that guy was there, that night I took the things she gave me back and told her I felt like I was lied to and betrayed and that things were different between us. She was quite angry after that.  A week ago when we talked I told her maybe I overreacted and she said I did. I told her that I felt like she had left me for this other guy and it brought up a lot of stuff from my marriage. By the time I left I felt like the conversation went ok. I don't know if she still feels angry towards me or not. I still have her blocked on Facebook so that might strike a nerve with her. I don't know. As far as her wanting to be friends or not being ready to let me go yet, I'm not sure at this point because I have been staying away and haven't talked to her since.

Cromwell,

I can see i am putting a lot of blame on him. Like I said, I know it comes from my past when this neighbor was chasing after my wife and broke up our marriage. This guy knew she was dating me and he was chasing her. It really angers me. I do realize that it's her as well.

It will pass. I think that is why it is important for me to stay away and heal. Maybe then I can think a little more clear. Tonight on the way home I could feel myself trying to reason with myself. I was thinking that I needed to stop and get a few groceries before I went home. In my mind I knew it was a reason to go in and see her. I caught myself however and didn't. I just went home.

Truth be told I don't need her to chase me. There is a want though. I think a lot of that is because she so easily breaks up with me (rejection) that in my mind it would make me feel like I do mean something to her. I guess I'm really wanting some validation that she misses me.

Cash,

My therapist pointed out today that I needed to focus less on her and more on my own actions. That's the only thing I can control. I struggle with ruminating about her but I have found with time and space that fades. At the beginning  though it does seem to sooth me to talk about it. I think for me seeking the validation of others who have been there and understand, that what I have noticed, seen, and/or questioned is valid and likely true or not helps me feel better. To know if I am reading it right or wrong. It also helps when others point things out i might not have seen. It helps me with understanding in healing and reacting to her. I am very appreciative to everyone for this. :)

It’s good to hear from you again  :)

My current gf was friend zoning me there wasn’t anyone else and I had to think about what needed work from my side of the fence and it was tough to stand up to her.

Think of it this way if you don’t stand up to her then how are you going to stick up for her? Women pick up on that. I’ve been with my current for three years and she hasn’t friend zoned me since I told her that if it happens again we’re done. It wasn’t happened since I told her in January of 2019. - I broke with her for a few weeks. That gave her time to think about what she wants and I told her that if we’re getting back together I’m not interested in just being friends.

Every situation is different - yours, mine and everyone in this thread. It sounds like I hear a value here:


This is really tough but in the end isn’t it better to be synchronized with your true self? An option could be and I know that is tough but you could give yourself time to think about what to do and think about your values and what is lining up for you and want isn’t lining up for you and retool some of your values.

If you decide to get back together then set your boundaries right at the beginning and it’s not say that they are not going get tested - defend your boundaries and eventually either she’ll respect them but if she doesn’t respect them then in the long run you’ll feel better having synchronized with your true self.

I think most people will agree here that she hasn’t closed the door on this r/s. Let it be that’s her choice and it doesn’t affect you if you decide that you don’t want to back then if she chose to leave the door open a crack then it doesn’t affect you.

You know that you are a significant attachment to her if you have this history together she doesn’t want to let go yet. This hasn’t happened with the other guy he’s not the same significance.

If you chase her I don’t think it’s going to work in your favor  - if you want to get back together possibly down the road and you’re not sure the best thing to do is take this time to think about your values, what you can retool and invest in yourself with self care.

I completely understand being angry - anger can give you the empowerment to change your situation but if there is a possibility that you want to get back you don’t want to damage the r/s further and if she’s not ready for a r/s just ignore it that’s just the she is.

My advice is if you want to have a r/s with her don’t talk about a r/s because you’re going to make it feel like you’re wanting to lock her down into a r/s don’t make it feel that way - make things lights. You’re job is you’re conductor of the fun bus make things fun and relaxing just go with the flow.. Give the r/s part time.


With FB it was reactionary it’s ok you can also unblock her and just leave it at that.

If you got it right now, would it give some solace to the agony?

I think it's why you wanted to see her, it's increasing the chance it might happen by being in close proximity. Trying to speed it up because its not just simply "i want this thing' it's i want this now and how am I gonna get it.

Mutt,

I've heard not standing up to them makes them feel like you won't stand up for them either. In fact I believe her and I had this discussion quite a while back and she agreed. I remember a couple of years ago when she broke up with me and tried to friendzone me. She was at a retreat  and I was back in Canada seeing family. I told her I don't do the friend zone thing very well and we would likely just lose contact. After that I still pursued a little and then she was seeing where another relationship went so I backed off. 6 weeks later when I chatted with her it never got off the ground and we ended up getting back together.

At the moment I have been assessing what I want. If things don't work out with this guy and there is another chance for us to try again, do I want that?

The other thing that has crossed my mind is who knows how long this relationship will last? From her relationships before me that I know of and her dating other guys when we've been apart I know they haven't lasted long. 1 to 7 months from what I know. Same with friendships. Ours lasted a lot longer. Maybe our Dynamic was different than others? Or maybe I just refused to give up. I believe a lot of other guys haven't invested the time to try to figure out exactly what is going on. She told me when we got back together that during the nine month. She had dated a few other guys and none of them had the connection that we did. Things that we enjoyed doing together the other guys didn't. With this guy however, we live in a rural area and he is a registered sex offender. I would imagine when he tries to date women the minute they find this out they probably walk away. She knows and is still pursuing a relationship with him it looks like. Knowing a lot of other women won't stick around and she will (as well as there not being many women to date), he might be willing to put up with a lot and keep trying as well.

With the uncertainty of how long this relationship will last, how far things will go with this guy, and if I would really want to try again, is it really worth waiting? A lot of these things go through my mind. I believe my best option at this moment is to stay away so I don't pursue, make things worse between us, and to give me space to figure out what I want. Figure out if I'm willing to try again with stronger boundaries or if this was the final straw.

She may or may not be done with the relationship. You do bring up a good point with being significant to her. I really don't know how long this guy has been in the picture and how much significance he has built. During those nine months apart he might have been in the picture then as well. Who knows? Some of her actions make me think that she still wants to keep some sort of attachment because she's not completely done. This may change if things continue to go well with this guy and build.

As far as being the captain of the Fun Bus, down the road if and when we come in contact again I will keep things light. If I do decide I want to try again and it works that way I'm not going to push anything. This last time in August when we got back together she actually pushed it. At the time I was actually a little reluctant. She sensed that when we went to an event together with our kids and it actually upset her. She told me she was feeling rejected and thinking that maybe things really were different between us. She said she wanted to be together. I told her okay, we can be together then.

As far as Facebook, I don't believe I am ready to unblock her yet. I feel if I do I will be tempted to look and I'm sure she's probably deleted all pictures of me or us. That will just hurt me some more. Also if she sees I unblocked her she will likely know I've been looking at her profile and might block me again. That will also hurt.

Cromwell,

If I did it would give some Solace. I would still feel hurt about how things happened but it would help for sure.

You bring up a very good point on wanting to see her. I know inside my mind I have felt this way. I guess really it is a way in my mind to ease the pain I am feeling. Speed things up so I'm not suffering so much. In my mind if I knew she missed me it would help me feel less pain perhaps? But also in my mind I feel like I need to stay away so I can assess what I want and maybe heal. I guess I really just have to sit with the pain and acknowledge it. Also in my mind, if she is really going to miss me it would be because I have stayed away.

That’s a good point and I agree maybe they’re intentions are different. You have the long view and maybe they’re not looking that far ahead or it’s possible that she’s not looking that far ahead as well or she is looking term and it ends up bring a bust.

You are right past behaviors will determine current patterns and as you know a pwBPD have rigid thought patterns a part of the diagnosis is if a pattern is observed for six months or longer.


I get the impression that you’re a patient guy you could be more patient and you could be putting up with her behaviors more than others . There’s a quality about you that she likes, you’re familiar, she probably trysts your if you’ve known each other for a long time.


I agree.


That makes sense.

I want to add if she is someone that you care about and you think that you want to reframe the r/s in a different and not pursue her romantically that’s your choice.

Can I ask you a question? Is a lot of the frustration and pain coming from both of you wanting different things?

What I mean it sounds like at a point you want a r/s that is long term and from what I’m getting from you share about her is either she’s not interested in a long term r/s and no offense to you or maybe she’s had a bad experience in the past she’s projecting in the present now.

What I mean is maybe she’s avoiding a committed r/s because she’s trying to avoid past hurts which is living in the past because what happened in the past is different than the experience that she has with you.

If that’s the case, can you accept that age is living within her boundaries of how she knows how to function. Sometimes we think that people will magically change if we hang around long enough or try hard enough that they will see our efforts?

That being said, the anger that you have now can empower you to change and tweak certain things. Are you seeing anyone yourself? Have you thought about seeing other women? If you don’t feel like this is the right time that’s absolutely correct for you.

What I’m hearing is that you’re carefully thinking things over. I think it sounds like you’ve had a long history and it may be time for you turn the page on this chapter of your life and pursue something different and something new.

Listen to your intuition - we give ourselves emotional distress when we align ourselves with our true selves and I think that you’re selling selling short of you put all of your eggs in one basket with one woman - you’re compatible with many people and there’s someone that is going to appreciate you for you.

If you choose to go back that’s your choice - no judgments from me butt just realize that she is who she is she may not change at all and you’ll have to ignore her tendencies when it comes to a commuted r/s and maybe there’s something that to her she doesn’t le that you’re done by. Is there something that you can think of?

If you choose to move on the there’s a lot of stuff that’s hard to see now that you can salvage like setting boundaries and sticking up for yourself that is going to pave the way to healthier r/s’s if you buckle down and follow through with it.

She might now that Carguy is setting a boundary with me now but if I keep trying to cross that line eventually he’ll cave  but if you change that with following through by not giving her what she wants either she’ll move on or she’ll respect that boundary or she might roll over that boundary as well but it all comes back to how you react to it.

Do I put up with it or is it time for me to close the chapter?

I couldn't say if she is looking at long-term or not with him. As far as past behaviors, I'm pretty sure they will manifest themselves again with this guy eventually. When she became best friend with this one girl, I was happy she finally had a female friend but figured it probably wouldn't last too terribly long. What I found interesting is a therapist that I listen to online I think once said that on average relationships with borderlines last 6 to 8 months. I found out this friendship lasted six months. She seems to fall into the category for the most part. Like I said, it could be different with this guy though. It was with me. Although I would say from what I know, probably 98% of her relationships don't last longer than six to seven months.

You're right. I could have more patience. There are times in our past that I became impatient with her and got upset with her. She still brings up those memories and it still hurts her to this day. As far as trust, she always tells me that she feels that she can't trust me. But then again she says that about pretty much everybody that gets close to her. Co-workers, friends, ex romantic partners, even her own father. She has however told me things about herself that I highly doubt she had told anybody else. Things that are very close and personal. Very vulnerable. Even recently. I was with her years before she opened up about some of these things. I would think that says something.

We actually have known each other for quite a while. 15 years ago we dated for a couple of months when I was coming out of my marriage. She eventually broke it off but we were still friends. Through The Years up to 2015 we would run into each other every few years and chat but eventually lose contact again. 2015 we ran into each other again as she was coming out of her second marriage and we started seeing each other.

I have thought about reframing the relationship too. Maybe eventually we could be friends after I've had some space and time to heal. That is another thought that has crossed my mind.

As far as wanting different things, I believe we want the same things. I want a relationship that grows and becomes marriage. She does too. What is interesting is this last time we were together a month or so in she was telling me again that she thinks I'm the love of her life and that she wants to marry me. With our unstable past I felt really unsure about that. I didn't want her to feel rejected so I told her "Let's work toward that then." She seemed to be happy with that and said okay with a smile. Every time we have gotten back together she starts talking about marriage. Things like "if we get married" or one day she said when we were making love that she wanted to yell out "Marry me!" When we first started dating we eventually were talking marriage. I really thought she was the one and I was almost ready to marry her. I know we have negative things in our past as well that she can't let go of. She has told me this. When we get back together after a while she she price pushing my buttons and I keep my calm but eventually I lose my patience. I have became a lot better about it and she has even said she's noticed this. That I have made big improvements in being understanding.

I know she has a lot of hurt in her past. Hurt with family comes up often. Hurt and her second marriage comes up a lot too. Hurt in our relationship also comes up.

As far as age, I think I understand what you're saying here. To me I do realize that sometimes she asked or reacts on an immature level. Basically a kid level. From what I understand borderline function emotionally at a very child level.

I have thought about seeing other women. I am not seeing anybody right now. I'm not sure if I am Ready or Not. That has been debated in my head as well.

As far as something I may have done. A few months ago when we were going to one of my games I compete in, when we were in the restaurant she started accusing me again of getting into her phone and deleting pictures years ago when she was living with me and we were broke up. Her kids and her were sleeping downstairs and we hardly spoke to each other. I didn't even know the code to her phone nor did I care too. At first I was trying to be patient but being accused of things that I did not do is a huge trigger for me and always has been. I have told her this in the past.  I got upset and when we got in the car I was driving a little aggressive because I was angry. She started screaming for me to pull over that she would drive. I finally pulled over on the on-ramp and let her drive. I didn't talk to her the rest of the day. When we got back home the next evening we talked and I apologized and told her I was completely out of line. She actually apologized to me too and we made up and things seemed good.  She was upset about other things that day too. My ex-wife has had the combo to the front door lock of my house since I built my house. 5 years before my ex BPD and I started dating again. My ex-wife and I are close friends and I completely trust her with things like that. I gave her the code when my boys and I went back to Canada to see family. She would go in and check the house and feed my cats. She was feeding my cat this time since we were going to be gone the weekend to my games. My ex BPD asked if she had a key or something. I told her no she has the combo. She became very upset about my ex-wife having access to my house. Then my son became defensive of his mother and was angry.

The thing that she broke up with me this time over was a disagreement. After spending the weekend together she left to go home Sunday night. She text me and asked if she had left some letters there. I went and looked and just found envelopes. I text her back and asked if that's what she was wanting. She didn't respond so I called her to confirm. When we had ate dinner I had moved them off the dinner table. She got a little upset about that and told me when I move her stuff I need to let her know. I told her sorry and that I will let her know next time. She didn't leave any letters, just a couple of envelopes and one had an address of one of her family members on it. She started in on me about those envelopes laying there and she didn't trust my 17 year old son. My son is a good kid. He's a straight-A student and very honest and trustworthy.. I frequently have neighbors and others that know him telling me what a good kid he is. I naturally became defensive. I told her I trust my son completely. She told me I was getting defensive and that we needed to get off the phone and go to bed. The next day I stopped by her apartment and we started talking. She started talking about the relationship she has with my ex-wife and son. She had told me recently she wanted to repair them. I told her I could see my ex-wife was trying to reach out to her and that she should consider that. I told her from what I could see my ex-wife feels like she isn't trying and she feels like my ex-wife isn't trying. They both feel the same thing. Maybe there's something in that. She started getting angry thinking I was accusing her of not trying. She tried twisting my words around and I repeated exactly what I had said. I told her what she was saying is not what I was trying to say or mean. I was trying to be validating as well. It escalated to where she was shutting down and pulling away curled up against the wall shaking. She didn't want contact but I finally put my arms around her and was hugging her trying to calm her. I have done this in the past. She has told me I need to break through her barriers a lot of those times. She kept telling me it was past time for me to go to work and I was going to be late. She was right. I left and went to work. I was exhausted that day from lack of sleep over all of this and in a bad mood. I get off at 5 and she gets off at 6. We live 20 miles apart. I would usually go home after work and eat dinner and do my thing. This day I was extremely tired and in a bad mood so I thought I would go home like always. I fell asleep about 7  that evening and slept through the night. I had a feeling she would be upset that I didn't wait until she got off and try to go talk to her. The next morning when I stopped by she asked where I was. She was upset and angry telling me that she was shaking when I left and I didn't try to come by that night to talk to her and it drove her mind crazy. Finally she told me we needed to take a break. I feel like there is nothing there that could not be worked through but apparently she didn't.

I do struggle with boundaries. I have tried setting some in the past with her and they have upset her or I haven't stuck to them. I believe this is one thing I really need to work on. Setting boundaries and sticking with them regardless of where her and I end up in the future.

I don't know if she will change or not. She has been in therapy a few times but hasn't seen her therapist since last summer the last she told me. She knows there is something wrong with her but she thinks it's social anxiety. She goes to retreat and buys all sorts of self-help books and does natural oils and crystals and many other things trying to help herself. She has also been going back to college for the last year in psychology. I honestly think deep down that this is her trying to figure out what is wrong with herself.

As far as turning a chapter, I'm still struggling with that. My logical side says yes but my heart says no. I'm hoping with time and space that maybe this can become more clear.

I think that you’re right it’s going to take time to sort through this and thanks for sharing your honest feelings. It’s been a good discussion.

A couple of thoughts.


That sounds about right with the time that we become emotionally intimate with a new r/s partner. BPD behaviors are triggered by emotional intimacy- they act out when they become close to us.


My advice is that she has trust issues with every body. Find some time in your break and amaze it a goal to accept that you can’t change the fact that she has trust issues with everyone and probably herself.



This stuck out for me - she’s testing you to see if you’re going to stick around. A r/s with a pwBPD - you have to have a strong center. Don’t let her throw you off your center - the difficulty curve spikes dramatically because you’re dealing with a pwBPD.

Patience is key I think like you said - you can have more patience and some of things that she does you’ll have to let them go ( in the context of not knowing where you stand in the r/s ) and find an outlet. You can talk to us here, talk to a T, work out, sign up for alo moves ( Yoga, meditation, fitness ) boxing, MMA what ever you like. I’m not asking you to be perfect we all have put issues and we all have those moments we’re we lose our patience but what I am saying is finding something that helps us balance those moments.


This isn’t because of BPD - she’s insecure a lot of women feel threatened by other women. A lot about r/s’s is putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and trying to see if it from their perspective to get a more complete picture of what is actually going on. She could also be testing you to see if you’re going to stick around or if you’re got ho have to your ex or to another woman. She’s testing you to see if you’re going to stick around.


I would read our article on triangulation. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0)In situations like these be an objectionable observer looking from the outside and remaining neutral by not picking sides and just observe.  I know that it’s easier said that done and takes practice but you can set a goal for yourself for the long term and as long as you keep trying if you don’t get it right - keep trying and eventually after a span of time passes you’ll recognize those moments were you’re getting pulled from different sides to not make things worse remain neutral - you’re not fueling the drama. Full stop. You’ll feel better emotionally.


She could of been looking good a reason to break up to give herself justification with her choice. Next time just send her a quick message I’m on my home and had a bad day. I’m going to sleep it off. I think that it’s an overreaction on her part but I don’t think that she was being transparent with why she broke up I think she may of been looking for a reason. I’m sorry about that.


Thats exactly what happens - you get an angry reaction because you’re introducing a new behavior that they are not accustomed to. That being said, the anger will eventually stop but you have to keep pushing through with your resolve by asserting your boundaries. Either the other person will comply or they won’t comply and end the r/s and find someone else that’s more controllable.


Give credit where credit is due going back to school is not easy and good for her if she wants to finish psychology and if she is trying to do some self work in her own - you may not be dealing with a person that is completely emotionally immature - she might be developing more self awareness because people that are emotionally immature don’t have the capacity to self reflect.

It has been a good discussion and it really does help me! Thank you!

When we first got together I believe in this time frame I seen some minor acting out but nothing that made me question at that time.

I have noticed for years that she truly does have trust issues with everyone. Even herself. She had said in the past repeatedly that she wasn't sure if she could trust what her brain was saying. She is self aware of that.

The idea of her testing me makes sense. There have been many times that I felt like she was testing me to see if I would leave or not. I still need to work on my patience. I can see this. Over the years with her I can see that I have made huge improvements on that but still have a ways to go. She has even commented in the past on how patient I have been at times.

Putting myself in her shoes is something I have learned over the last year or so. It has been huge. Her and I even talked about this. I have found that by putting myself in her shoes and seeing it from her side rather than just taking offense or getting defensive has helped to calm me and gain better understanding of where she is coming from. When she got upset about my ex-wife having access we talked a little about it and I could understand how she felt threatened. Not even from a borderline perspective but just from a woman perspective. She was upset when she said it but her idea was to change the code on the door and give my ex a key to my shop and put the cat food out there when we go away. I told her I thought that would work. I know when we first got together she struggled with the idea of my ex-wife and I having a good friendship. She brought it up and kept asking how she could be sure that I wouldn't leave her for my ex-wife. I kept reassuring her that I wouldn't. At the time her and I had been divorced for 11 or 12 years. I told her that I had no desire to be anything other than a friend with my ex-wife.

I feel like I truly need to work on the triangulation. I really was trying to remain neutral and advise her on my thoughts on how to improve the relationship. She did not take it this way. My therapist believe that she was seeing my ex-wife as the enemy and wasn't really wanting to work on the relationship.

When we talked and she was upset about me going home she was upset as well that I did not even text her and tell her what was going on. I told her I should have text at least. I really should have. I believe that would have at least made things not quite as bad. After I found out the guy on the internet that was chasing her was now hanging out with her after we broke up though, I feel that this was more of an excuse. This is why I feel like I was lied to. She told me that she told him they would not get together even if things didn't work out between her and I. Now I feel like they were in fact talking and he was trying to win her over. I know when you don't talk to her when things are bad like that it really does make things worse though. She gets really upset because her mind goes to worst case scenarios and drives her crazy like she says.

I think in the past this is one of the reasons why I struggled with boundaries with her. Trying to keep from upsetting her and her leaving me. Being trauma bonded. I have noticed some pretty controlling behavior on her part. The more I have read over the last while the more I have found that things I didn't realize were in fact controlling behaviors. In fact some of the things I have read I'm even guilty of. These are things I'm working at changing.

As far as her going back to school, I think it is great! She graduated years ago from one of our state universities with an Associates. She went out in medical transcriptionist but could not get her foot in the door. About a year or year-and-a-half ago she decided to go back to school and start taking classes in Psychology. I fully supported her. I helped her when I could with homework and even took her kids in the other room and watch TV with them or read to them or whatever we needed to do so she could have time alone to do her lessons. I actually enjoyed helping her and watching the kids. It really felt like a family. She struggled with self-reflecting I believe and a lot of times can't when the narcissism is in charge but there are times that I have seen her self-reflect. She is aware of problems. Not long before she broke up with me she was upset and told me she pushes people away and she hates it. That is why I wonder if she is taking psychology not only because she enjoys it but also to maybe unlock some answers to questions she has about herself. I hope she find those answers and it helps her.

This is a really good suggestion. I would of gone along with it as well too.


It sounds like she’s trying to pick a fight her and she might even say something like sometimes it feels good to fight because it keeps it exiting.

Sometimes women are board and will do this that being said if she doesn’t want to work inn the r/s and wants to fight you don’t want to unnecessarily damage the r/s because if you fall into a trap of constant conflict you’re going to get to state that’s called the Four Horseman of Apocalypse- a point we’re enough damage is done that the r/s will not be recoverable at that point.

Don’t take the bait! This is me and sometimes my gf will she just wants the fight and i think it’s because if attention or maybe she’s bored but I have lived experience and I’m not interested in triggering the Four Horseman of Apocalypse (https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down)

If your exW is the enemy then she cast herself as victim and she wants rescue and as you probably already know  it keeps adding fuel to the fire when we engage in drama.

With triangulation in mind what can happen in a r/s is that there can be a lot of pressure that’s built on on the r/s that is difficult to vocoder with and what triangulation does is - it’s like a release valve it releases all of the pressure in the r/s.


I know that it’s contradictory because I of how aggressive a pwBPD are in the exterior with their anger if you take it at face value. Think of the quote “Hurt people hurt people” and really anger can be a mask for pain and a paBPD are really fragile in the exterior and if there’s a lot of anger that is directed at them then and I’m not making excuses for the behavior they can seek out a third party to release that pressure from the main r/s.

That being said BPD is about not being able to self regulate their feelings - we’re not responsible for other people’s feelings and many of us in this thread have the habit of rescuing their expwBPD because they could not self sooth. That’s were I draw the line today if my current gf ( non ) has negative emotions I won’t rescue I wait until she gets back to her emotional baseline and for a pwBPD you’re going to have to wait a little longer for them to get back to their emotional baseline.

My gf knows from setting the boundary early in the r/s that I won’t chase her if she’s going through negative feelings I put up with that behavior for years with my exuBPDw being the lightning rod for all of her negative emotions and I don’t be a soother anymore.

I talked to her about it one time because she said I don’t chase and I told her what’s the goal here? Do you want two adults that are emotionally wounded lashing out at each other to soothe each other? I’m not interested in that because it’s just to keep damaging the r/s and then what are you left with?


That’s awesome that you’re doing the work  |iiii


There a lot of members that have an ex that don’t have self awareness and are going through the motions every day and not realizing the impact. She has her own things to work on and from what I’m hearing from you you’re doing you’re own work out a T doing self work here and you’re interested in becoming more aware.

Sounds like that is fear of engulfment, Carguy. I never did know what that was until I read about it in this forum following my breakup with my ex-g/f. After I found out about it here, I asked my therapist several questions about it. That and fear of abandonment  are just two of the many BPD traits. My T told me she counsels a woman with severe BPD. This woman's attendance in her therapy sessions is inconsistent, which makes treating her even more difficult my T said. She said it's very common for this woman to cry most of the way through her sessions and say "I don't know why I do the terrible things I do to other people and myself."  It's truly a shame what these people go through.

I can identify with your ex telling you how she pushes people away and how she hates it. I went through this with my ex-g/f as well. At various times through the relationship, she told me this: "It is hard to explain, but sometimes there is this part of me that wants to step in and deliberately mess all of this up (her relationship with me)." If it wasn't that, she'd be love bombing me with in person affection, texts, emails, phone calls. She once told me that being with me was "like an addiction for me (her)." Then we'd go through a couple of days where she hardly wanted to talk to me. Prior to dating her, I'd known her for 18 years. Following her separation with her ex-husband, she moved an hour away from me. We started dating 4-5 months later while she still lived out of town. Roughly 5 months into the relationship, she stated that she wanted to move back to this area to be closer to me and her parents. About a month later, she said she wasn't so sure about moving back and maybe the distance would do us good (fear of engulfment?). She went back and forth with this for a few months and ended up moving back to the area in June 2019. Our relationship lasted 10 months after she moved back here. The push/pull behavior occurred for basically the entire time.  At the time of the breakup, she said that she never wanted to live here and "wanted to move around and eventually leave and move to another state." This was after she told me several times that she wanted for us to be married and settle down. She stated that she wanted stability for her kids and said "No more moving around." Pretty much, I didn't know what I was getting from one day to the next. I don't miss that at all.

I know the cycle all too well, my friend, as does everyone else here. Take care of yourself.

 

The thing my therapist pointed out with her relationship with my ex-wife and this instance is that she probably wasn't interested in repairing the relationship with my ex-wife and had already made my ex-wife the enemy. My therapist suggests she was likely testing my loyalties to see if I would side with her or my ex-wife. I believe the only part she heard of what I was telling her led her to believe I was siding with my ex-wife. What I in fact was telling her is that from what I can see they both feel the same way. She also told me my ex-wife waved at her in the store a few days earlier. When she told me this she was telling me that she felt like it was all forced and it took her saying something for my ex-wife to start trying to reach out. When we were talking that morning I assumed she didn't wave back. I think this upset her too and possibly made her think I was siding with my ex. She told me she had and I told her I didn't know that. I told her I'm not there to see the interactions between them so I don't know what all goes on.

So you think that she possibly sought out this guy because she was feeling stress in the relationship and anger from me? It does make some sense to me. Maybe a third person to relieve some pressure on?

What you say here about not chasing is quite interesting. My therapist told me something similar. One of the habits I have that he pointed out is when she starts getting quiet and pulling away and not saying I love you back, I can tell something is wrong. I start chasing. I start getting panicky knowing something is wrong and my fear of Abandonment starts kicking in. I start asking her what is wrong or what is going on or is she is okay or things like that. My therapist suggested that if I do get back together with her and this happens to put the responsibility back on her. He told me to go on like everything is fine. Let her come to me with her problems. Don't chase after her wondering what the problem is.

The fact that she is somewhat self-aware gives me hope that someday she will be able to fully figure out and work on herself. As for me, I was never aware of the things I had going on until I was with her. I do have to thank her (and I have) for making me aware of the things I need to work on myself.

It could be that she added a third party because of she is triggered, boundaries are being set that she’s not used to and you’re following through your boundaries or maybe you are wanting a r/s and she’s not wanting a r/s at this time. You said that she wants a r/s but maybe there’s something that is making her have second thoughts, is there something that you can think of?


Im glad to hear gratitude  |iiii

Thanks Brighter,

It is such a hard disorder for both Us and Them. Having both the fear of Abandonment and the fear of engulfment because of the fear of abandonment play Havoc. Self-fulfilling prophecy. A little over a year ago my ex BPD told me she thinks she hates herself. This honestly broke my heart.

All these years that we have been together she has never felt suicidal or had self-harming or suicidal thoughts like some BPD people do. She even told me this a few times in the past. She said she didn't see what the point of doing something like that would be. Just a few months ago she told me she was struggling and had a thought that she just didn't even want to be here. This is the first time I have ever known her to feel like this. She even told me she didn't know where it came from. She seemed surprised by it. Later she was angry at me and throwing it at me about that time saying she was basically having suicidal thoughts. I'm not sure if this is something new manifesting itself or a she did and never admit it till now. I also don't know how serious these thoughts have became. If it was just a momentary thing or if they're starting to occur with her now. I pray that they don't and she doesn't continue down that path.

It really is interesting how they seem to use the same Playbook. Reading some of your experiences remind me of exactly the same things that happened in mine. I have experienced the push-pull dynamic several times over the last few years with her. Mine told me not quite two years ago that she was afraid she was going to push me away. She has a very narcissistic side so anytime we break up it is always her that breaks up with me and it is always my fault to her. Mine had also asked me if I thought that we were both just addicted to each other.

I know in the past with her second husband she had moved to the other side of the country and lived in a few different areas. When we were first together she wanted to get married and live here and have a great life. Eventually it started coming up that she wanted to move out of state too. There have been times when we were broken up that when we started talking she told me she had been making plans to move out of state. She never has yet. Then a couple of years ago when we broke up and she was going to see where things went with another guy she was going to move to the city he lived in which is still in our state. It never got off the ground and she ended up not moving though. I tend to think that a lot of times when they want to move like she does they think that things are going to be better there. She wanted to move to another state where she goes to her retreat. Everybody loves her there and it's so nice to her. If she moved there and was around these people on a regular basis there's a good chance that history would repeat itself and she would turn against them.

Mutt,

I believe that what comes up for her is feeling like nothing has changed. She has even said this. I feel that things have changed and gotten better between us and she has agreed. Other times though I think some things trigger memories of our past for her (like when I became irritated with her on the way to my games). It makes her feel like we're in the past and going through the same thing again.

To me it is like she can see how much better we communicate and work through things and the huge improvements but then one little slip (like becoming irritated after being pushed repeatedly) and she doesn't see how much things have improved between us but instead she sees that we're just doing the same thing and nothing has changed.

Well I wasn't sure if i was on the black list until tonight.

Last month when I ran into Walmart for a few things I went to self checkout like always and found out she was running it. Of course the checkout that opened up was directly in front of where she was standing. The whole time I was checking out she made it a point to look off to one side or another so she didn't look at me. I talked to her a few days later and apologized for overreacting when she was hanging out with the other guy on her lunch the one day. She said i did and we talked a little. I mainly stopped to warn her about what I had learned about his past. After that i hadn't seen her so I wasn't sure how things were between us. Tonight i stopped to get some groceries and i think she was down on the other end so I could just go in and out without running into her. I shopped and when I got up to self checkout she was standing there talking to a coworker. She turned to leave to go back to her checkout and had to walk directly  towards me. She glanced and seen it was me and looked away and turned just like I was someone she didn't know. She was maybe 6 to 8 feet away and knew it was me. It hurt.

It really made me want to go talk to her tomorrow and apologize for things and try to make things better. I hate having things like this between us. It seems to help in the past but then last summer it would anger her more. In December though she didn't get angry and was willing to talk. I know last summer staying away helped when she wasn't willing to listen but a few weeks ago she was. I also know Mutt said don't chase so would I be chasing or just letting her know I care and I'm sorry if I misread things. I'm beginning to think maybe she really wasn't interested in the other guy.

Not sure what the best thing to do is here.

Carguy dear, you have come so far! Don't move backwards now. I know you don't want to shop somewhere else, but would you not consider it at least for a month? The truth is, you still care about her. It speaks volumes about what a nice man you are. But it also makes you incredibly vulnerable to her. On these boards we see time after time that closure is something you almost never get from pwBPD, especially if they are not in therapy. Unless she is committed to her healing the best you can hope for is another recycle that will bring you back to exactly where you are now. For your own sake,  focus your thoughts on the child abusing man who is now part of your triangle and shop somewhere else for a little while.

Hey Khibomsis!

So I actually talked to her today. We had a really long conversation. I learned a lot. We did not get back together but I feel a lot better about things.  I think we are both reluctant to be in a relationship with each other. I did find out that she was never dating this guy. I didn't even ask. She brought it up and told me. He has no friends and was looking for friends. She was just befriending him. She did not bring him around her kids and told him a few times that they were not going to get together. She told me she was not willing to risk losing her kids or anything like that. In fact I got the impression they're not even spending time together anymore. I'm  relieved she isn't going to put her kids in that situation.

As far as us, the conversation went really well and I feel better about things between us now. I think at this point now I will keep my space and continue working on me and doing things I enjoy. Also I do believe I will shop at the other grocery store in our town. It's smaller and doesn't have a lot of things I buy plus it's a little more expensive so I think I will go back to what I was doing before. When I just need a few items I will go there but when I do a big shopping trip I will go to Walmart on the weekends because she doesn't work then.:-)

Carguy you got it! I am glad for you you had a civilized conversation:) Now give your wounded heart a break for a month and you will be able to face her like a human. I know it is hard but you can do it!

Thanks Khibomsis!

When I first got there and asked if we could talk she said sure but as we sat down to talk I could tell she was still very angry at me. The way she would respond and her body language said it all. As we continued to talk I could see her eventually starting to ease up. As she would bring up other things though I could see her starting to get angry about those things. I just practiced empathy and some active listening and it seemed to diffuse things. By the end her anger seemed to have dissipated. We even hugged before I left. I think this is a good place to leave things. Now I can give some space and heal. It will be hard but I think it will be easier for me now where things are at. I feel like she doesn't hate me now and/or see me as completely bad. I can do this! I just need to keep telling myself this and focusing on other things like my projects. :-)

It gets easier Carguy. One day, even one hour at a time does it. And when she doesn't want to go into therapy it makes it difficult to believe the relationship would ever change. You could be doing the last five years over and over again, rinse, repeat. At least that my prognosis based on what we see on these boards.
What has changed is you. I am delighted to see that you have learned your lessons well, and that your mastery of the tools made a difference. I find even using the tools with other people (Nons) makes a huge difference to my interactions. I guess that is the blessing of BPD.
Still,  better to leave it there, on a high note. Because without treatment the next dysregulation is just round the corner. You don't need that.
What are your projects? Me, I'm painting the house and fixing up all those little dangling screws and loose ends. Nursing a BPD sure takes time from life stuff!

It will get easier. Right now it is quite hard because I do miss her quite a bit still. She actually is a pretty incredible girl. The dysregulations are the hard part. I do have to say though, when she is angry at me, ignores me, and gets angry if I try to say anything to her, she still really isn't a mean person like some of the stories I've read. She never really insulted me or tried to tear me down. She has huge trust issues with others and a lot of typical BPD Behavior but underneath all that she really is a very caring sweetheart.

Another hard thing is I truly believe she wants to get better. She is undiagnosed and although she is aware something isn't right, she doesn't know exactly what it is. My therapist was the one that pointed out what it was to me. All the reading I have done on it, she meets pretty much all of the criteria. She believes she has social anxiety. She has bought many self-help books, goes to a retreat every year, and has gone to therapy. A few years ago she was going to therapy and I would go for some of the sessions with her. We broke up and apparently she quit going to that therapist. Eventually she started seeing another therapist but the last she told me several months ago, she quit seeing that therapist Last Summer. She had to pay for it out of pocket and could only afford to go once a month. She has been going back to school in psychology as well.

I really have changed! I have learned so much and even though I have my moments, I have learned to have more patience. To actually put myself in her shoes and see it from her point of view. To gain better understanding of things. It really does help me so I don't take it personally. Her and I even talked about that.

Yes, I think leaving it on a high note is good. It helps me to feel better about things. I will continue to work on myself. Where things are on a good note there is a possibility she might reach out to me. If she does I will be friendly and caring but I believe I need to be cautious as well.

As far as my projects, I have too many. LOL. Right now my main project is a hot tub. I picked one up from a co-worker last month and have ordered the parts to get it going. I'm looking at having a concrete slab poured and then move the hot tub on to it and set it up. Over the course of the summer I am going to build a building around it so it's all enclosed. By the time it is done it will be really nice. This spring I'm going to get back to work on my 69 Cougar and get it ready to drive. I've had it parked in the garage for years and miss driving it. Also this spring I need to start getting my little farm ready to replant. After that I have several other projects like finishing my basement and my garage among others. I keep myself pretty busy. :-)

Also I have been getting back to working out and weight lifting. My Scottish Highland games competitions begin in April and I am very much looking forward to that. I absolutely love the atmosphere! The people are awesome and very supportive and it is a very fun atmosphere! I am so glad I found this and started competing!:-)

Dear Carguy, if they weren't sweethearts we wouldn't put up with the moods, would we now ? :) Not a day goes past without I think of how my beloved expwBPD has inspired me to do better, and be better in this world. I am a stronger person because of her, and have more faith in my ability to surmount just about anything.
Your hot tub sounds delightful! Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
Yes, working out is my salvation too. Don't know how I would get by without it.

Hi CarGuy,

I hope this is not too off-topic, but ive found recently a lot of enjoyment in watching on youtube car restoration videos, are you involved in any of this? Its strange, I find it relaxing to watch and I imagine id quite enjoy doing in practice also. Keep up with the hobbies and maybe try new ones too, its working the brain into a different level of focus. Good to hear you keeping on track. Crom

Khibomsis,

Good point! Reading some of the stories on here though, I feel fortunate that she wasn't as mean as some. There were bad times in this relationship too, however. I do feel myself missing her a lot though. It is hard.

That is one thing I have read in a few stories as well. Even with the pain we feel, being with a BPD person teaches us a lot as well. I can honestly say I believe this relationship has helped make me a better person today. I still have a long ways to go however.

I am excited about the hot tub. I think it will be fun. It will be nice to soak in after a competition. My youngest son is excited too. He wants to soak in it after his football games. :-) As far as working out, I need to discipline myself better to do it every night. My competitions start in April so I need to really get to it! I want to throw further and higher this year. I want to beat my personal bests from last year. :-)

Cromwell,

I actually do. I do collision repair/refinishing for a living and have a few of my own projects. I have done frame-off restorations in the past for other people and right now my big project in my shop is my 73 Mustang. I have it taken apart down to a bare shell and I am currently sandblasting it. When I get done with it I am going to paint it black and I want to put the 5.0 coyote and the 6 speed trans out of a new Mustang in it. Cars truly are my passion in life. I find it very therapeutic and relaxing. That's what I have always been good at.

As far as keeping on track, I am struggling with that. I did see her today and said hi. I guess I was feeling a little weak and told her I enjoyed talking to her the other day ( when we had that big talk a week ago) and that if she wanted to hang out sometime again I would be open to it. She told me "Sounds good."

She may have been telling me this to get rid of me but I think she was actually in a hurry because her lunch break was almost over. I guess I could look at it that she isn't angry at me like she was in the past. When she was angry at me she would have responded very angrily and told me she wouldn't or something to that effect.

Afterwards I questioned myself for saying that to her. I know I planned on staying away and I felt like I failed that. I guess I just need to take it one day at a time or even one hour at a time like Khibomsis said.

Carguy, don't be too hard on yourself! Guilt is such a useless emotion. We all backslide a little now and then.
I am not in a position to go NC because I am committed to a certain amount of caretaking. If I could go NC I would because it is always easier to become friends after a good period of NC. As Zenmaster Once Removed would remind us, we have to go through the grief. You missed her and wanted to speak to her, but you also wanted relief from the grief, not so?
Still, with time I find it gets better. I am beginning to discover what a nice person I am and understanding why she loved to spend time with me. Am really enjoying dipping into the pool of myself when I can, it is abundance. Maybe that trick will work for you too?
Painting my bathroom eggyolk :)

Hi Carguy,
I hear you, it comes across to me when you are doing the work that you are "in the zone" so to speak?
Dont have to think much, sort of situation?

Sounds like the interaction led to a lot of thinking, trying to figure out. Is this just a one-off or do you notice a pattern. Its just a bit strange to me because I notice when you talk about cars you come across as relaxed and when it is about the relationship its like fear and anxiety comes across, uncertainty. Sort of what id expect if you asked me to sandblast a panel for the first time lol but after doing a few and then more, I reckon id get the hang of it.

I was 3 years with my ex, and each day felt like first day amateur, well the strange thing is, first 2 months felt as if I was an expert without having any reason to be.

Thanks for letting me share, also it took me a long time to get over my car attachment and I wish Id kept all of them, a few have became now classic high demand collectibles - VW mark 2 Golf and Peugeot 205 gti, but they are good memories I sort of forgot completley about you have "restored" them just by talking :)

Khibomsis,

Very true. The thing I feel the most guilty about is I left work and pulled out onto Main Street. As I was going down Main Street a block from my work I seen her parallel parked on the other side of the street getting out of her car . A little while later I came back through and she was still there so I pulled up behind her but I wasn't sure what store she was in. I was pretty sure she was in the office supply store I was parked in front of so I sat for a few minutes debating what to do. Finally I seen her in there  getting ready to come out. I got out of my car and waited on the sidewalk. She said friendly like "Hey what are you up to?" I told her I just wanted to say hi and let her know that I enjoyed talking to her and catching up a week ago and if she wanted to I was good with hanging out again. I felt like I should not have stopped. I felt like I was being desperate. I'm sure she felt that way too. I feel stupid. I felt like I need to just disappear at that point. In our past  there have been times that she has told me she was glad I reached out. I guess I was justifying to myself at the time that I was reaching out to let her know I was okay with hanging out again. I was missing her a lot and deep down wanted some relief from the pain I was missing her and  being with her.

I know you're right about no contact. Last summer when she was so angry and negative towards me I went no contact for 2 months. She did not see or hear from me at all. I stayed completely away. I was surprised at how much it changed things. She went from being negative and cold to willing to talk and even wanted to get back together. I know I need to just go no contact again and work on my own stuff. It is hard. I miss her a lot and miss being able to talk to her.

Egg yolk will be bright and cheery! I've been Clearing off the one side of my yard with my little tractor and getting ready to have them come give me an estimate for concrete. It's getting kind of exciting! :-)

Cromwell,

You are very right about the difference of me working on a car versus relationship. When I am working on a car I feel calm and confident. I enjoy what I'm doing. I know my abilities and my skills and have faith in what I'm doing. When it comes to the relationship I question myself a lot. I question everything I do and wondered if I'm making it worse for pushing her away more. Fear and anxiety take over. I struggled a lot with anxiety. I don't have near the confidence that I do with other things when it comes to relationships. I also start feeling lonely and wonder if it'll be like that for the rest of my life. My logical side knows I can attract another woman. Last summer when we were apart and she wasn't talking to me I had four different women at one point interested in me. I must have some attractive qualities to the opposite sex. But I am rather shy when it comes to talking to girls I am attracted to. It's a struggle.

 There is a pattern with this relationship. She has always been the one to break up with me and almost all the time I have been the one to Chase. Very rarely has she been the one to reach out. When we are apart I struggle with my fear and anxiety of losing her completely. My logical side says that I should just live my life and not worried about it but my emotional side struggles.

I still have my car attachment. The cars I have I have had for years. I really do enjoy them. Yeah those cars are getting to where they are collectible now. It's funny to think that some of the cars when I was a kid are now getting to be collectible. That wasn't that long ago either!

Hey Carguy, Right, which is why so many of us (including me) have engaged in recycles, often numerous times, only to end up in the same place farther down the line, except with more pain.

LJ

Yup LJ, one would think it gets easier with every recycle but it doesn't. Look, ultimately it is up to us how many recycles we permit. I believe we allow recycles until we learn whatever it is we went into the relationship to learn. if the person doesn't come back we find another one just like them to re-enact whatever psychodrama it is we were going through. until we ourselves are healthy.
I hold on to the thought of becoming the person she was attracted to in the first place. Somewhere I feel I lost myself in the mix and I look forward to finding that person again. Grief is natural, when it comes I let myself feel it but hey, it is just an emotion. Can't kill me.
Went deep today I think it must be the paintfumes ...
Carguy maybe time to talk to therapist about if you might have any abandonment issues?
Not meaning to imply you should date again while you are still not over her, but I have a female cynicism about my gender. I find it hard to believe that you are not beating them off with a stick. Red blooded able bodied male your age will never stay single for long.  lol lol lol  

LJ,

I can see this. In fact, when we started talking last August I was a little reluctant to be in a relationship again. I gave it another try when she wanted to be back with me and it still hurts when it ends again.

Khibomsis,

You have a good point on recycling until you learn. It is truly hard when you still have a lot of feelings for this person. Like you I hold on to the thought of becoming the person she was attracted to again. I guess for me I want to feel wanted.

I have actually talked to my therapist in the past about my abandonment issues. Recently we started working on those things again. It stems from my relationship with my mother. When my ex BPD and I were together, my therapist and I would work on ways to better a relationship. When we're apart though I start focusing on my own stuff. Recently we're dealing with my animosity towards my mother again. I have huge abandonment issues and even talked to my ex BPD this last time about how deep they really ran.

Haha@paint fumes. I always joke that that's what's wrong with me. Spending all these years doing collision repair and refinishing I have been around paint fumes so I blame it on that. Lol

Sadly dating in my area is kind of hard. It's rural, there are few activities to go to to meet others, and there are more single guys than there are girls. Thank you for the self-esteem boost though! :-)

Dear Carguy, abandonment issues are the worst. I am sorry you are going through them! They are the most awful things, kept me in my first marriage years past its sell by date. It is a good thing that you are getting a chance to work through them in therapy. I smiled at your pattern of working through couple things when the two of you are together and your own issues when you are apart. Maybe it would make it easier for you to think of this time on your own as a privilege? As time that you have to sort out your issues. B53 advised me to let go of baggage, and when I think of the mountains I carried into my last relationship I can perfectly see why it ended. One would think that my expwBPD had enough to deal with without still having to handle my dysfunctions. So trying my hardest to take responsibility and declutter. Like oatmeal for breakfast it is plain fare but wholesome.

Yeah, paintfumes are legal drugs :) Am busy filling in cracks and sanding. Nice metaphor for the psychological work we need to be doing..  

Khibomsis,

They truly are! I always knew I kind of had them but I didn't realize how much they affected me until this relationship. That would be a good way to look at this time on my own. Mine has a lot to deal with too. I I don't need to add to it.

That is a great metaphor!

I would like your opinion here if I could. Yesterday I had to go to Walmart to get my prescription filled. I was completely out of blood pressure medicine. I went on my lunch break but apparently she must have been taking a late lunch because her car was still there. I didn't realize they had her outside collecting carts and bringing them in. As I was walking towards the doors I looked up and seen her crossing the parking lot towards me. Almost like she seen me and started walking towards me but was acting like she was going to get more carts. She walked by me maybe 6 feet away and didn't even look at me. Pretty sure she was ignoring me. I said "Hey you." and waved. She half turned and gave kind of a nod and kept walking. In the past she has done this when she is upset at me. Basic acknowledgement and nothing more. Kind of cold like.

After we talked a few weeks ago I thought things seemed a lot better. By the end of our talk we were joking and being a little playful and even hugged before I left. Now it seems she's cold again. I don't get it. I've noticed in the past when she is angry at me,  It seems like when she seen me in public she would pop up somewhere so she was in my view. I have heard that they sometimes do that to keep you thinking about them. Does that seem Right? I also wonder if this is her trying to get attention? Acting cold to get me to chase her like I have in the past? What do you think? I'm a little confused here.

I know BPD people Are known to swing back and forth and their moods. Maybe She's back to being upset about the past? What's your opinion on this?

I was Going to Stay away And give her space. I was hoping I could have popped in there real quick and just get my prescription filled. I didn't anticipate running into her. I'm thinking I still need to disappear like I did last summer. Give her space and stay away and out of her sight so I don't trigger negative feelings toward me. Give her time to heal and move past her upset towards me. Give myself time to heal and work on my own stuff as well.

Dear Carguy, I am sorry to hear that! It is a pity it could not have stayed on the high you two left it on. However, it is a small town and I guess inevitably your paths would cross. It is difficult to say why she responded in that way. It could be just the normal BPDish moodswings. She could also have been feeling some kind of way about you staying away for a few days or conversely having the temerity to show up at Walmart collecting your prescription. If it were Khib, I would be feeling shame that I could have treated you in the way she did. It could be hormonal. Who knows?
The bottom line is that from a nons point of view there is no saying why, and the most obvious way of finding out, namely asking her directly, is currently not possible for you.   I had this problem many, many times in my recent relationship. The standard advice is to wait until they have calmed down (are at baseline) and then attempt to communicate. Sometimes things stack up or they touch baseline so briefly and the air becomes thick with unresolved issues. Mostly I got by by not paying it too much attention. Life goes on, one day at a time.
I would add, maybe not attempt a lot of communication at work? PwBPD are easily stressed and trying to discuss serious matters at work is bound not to end well.
You have asked her would she like to hang out sometime, she has agreed. Give yourself your time to work on your abandonment issues and truly understand why her slightest look affects you the way it does.  In a few weeks call and invite her for a coffee. That is maybe a suitable time to broach that you don't know what to make of the hot and cold stuff. In the meantime my simple observation is that the less your paths cross the smaller the opportunity for the silent treatment to happen. It upsets you every time. Love yourself enough to spare yourself.
Hugs,
Khib

Thanks Khib. This helps me.

I think that the other day when we talked I helped to calm her down and comfort her. In the past when she is upset I have done this. I have Learned a lot about Calming her. She has even said this. Maybe since then the unresolved issues have came back.  Also you bring up a good point with shame. Someone told me last summer that her ignoring me could also be because she is feeling shame. Like you said, who knows?

It really does affect me. I have noticed however, it doesn't affect me as much as it used to. In the past I would have strong anxiety and hurt. Now It's not so bad. It causes me to question more than anything.

I generally try not to communicate with her while she is at work. I don't want to get her in trouble or cause drama while she is at work. In the past (when she is angry at me) when I have tried to tell her something real quick she has responded in anger. Now the most I will do is say hi to her. Maybe ask if we can talk sometime when she has a free moment.

For now I believe I will keep my distance. Just kind of disappeared again for a while. That seemed to help last time. I don't know if I will ask her out the coffee or anything in the next few weeks. Maybe I should leave the ball in her court? If she wants to hang out let her come to me? I'm not sure on this because she has even told me she has a hard time reaching out and I have witnessed that. Also, I'm not sure if she really agreed to hang out. She just told me "sounds good." Maybe it's just me but it didn't seem like she was really interested.

Carguy, you deserve a break. It wounds you too much when she behaves like this. Sending positive energy your way. Enjoy the break!

Thanks Khib.

I've been struggling a lot yesterday and today with missing her. Last night I needed an item and I could tell my emotions were trying to bargain with me to go into Wal-Mart. As tempting as my emotions were I ended up going to the other grocery store in town and paying a little more. My resolve is to stay away for awhile so I'm not crowding her and work on my stuff. It is hard and hurts but I think it's for the best right now.

I talked to my therapist the other day about all this and he said my chasing is causing her to push away because of her BPD. I have read about that a lot as well. I kind of figured that's what it was. I mentioned to him how she seemingly  walked across the parking lot towards me and right past me within a few feet just to ignore me. He said it's basically a game for her in a way. I have talked to him before about little things like that that I have noticed. He said my chasing and reaching out to her makes her feel pressured like I'm trying to be controlling and stalkerish when in actuality I am just eager and trying to reach out to her.

Well done Carguy! The few extra cents at the other shop were well worth it in terms of trial and tribulation.
Consistent distance is one of one biggest problems relating to BPD. When they push I try to stand firm, when they pull I stand firm again. Unnerves my ex but I feel it is the best choice . In the past  I ended up dancing push/pull with them. Then my life gets determined by crazy, whereas of course it should be the other way round.
Sorry, I'm rambling here but I hope you know what I mean?

I get what you're saying. It makes sense.

Well I believe she is seeing someone else. I seen her in public with another guy. This is probably why I never heard back from her when I told her I would be open to hanging out again. Like I have read in the past with others about their BPD ex dating someone else, and as I witnessed with her, it never lasts. It's interesting that it lasted so long with me before there were problems. Of the guys I do know that she has dated they haven't lasted more than a few months. The guy she was dating before we got back together last August only lasted a month and a half. The guy she was hanging out with after we broke up in November must be out of the picture so that was pretty quick too.

It's hard but all the best to them. I'm just going to dedicate myself to myself. Working out and building my body for competition and working on my mental and emotional side.

What's interesting is the last time we talked for several hours she told me that when I get my past dealt with that I was going to be an incredible person. She said I have a huge heart and she looked at me kind of longingly with tears starting to well up in her eyes. Even though she's not in the picture anymore I'm still going to work on becoming that person.

I am soo sorry, Carguy! It hurts like hell, I know.
I could see it coming but didn't want to say anything for fear of becoming a prophecy. It is the way BPD operates, push/pull/push/pull. It is great that you've stopped letting crazy run your life. Somewhere in her infant mind she may be thinking that making you jealous makes her more attractive. At least my expwBPD thought so, it took a lot of communication before she got it that triangles are not sexy to me. They just don't turn me on.

Indeed, sit this one out. It is the wise decision. You have been this place before, last year, and I think the year before.  At least you have the strength now to walk out of the cycle. You are choosing not to be back here next year this time.

Don't listen to her. You are a great guy already. Kind, caring and consistently patient. Give your self all those great qualities. Enjoy the peace!  It won't last. The same factors that made it impossible for the two of you to be together will destroy the current man as well. At the end of the day it is not her walking out with another that is the problem, what separates you is untreated BPD. I don't think her DBT training is working very well, and that is the bottom line.

When this one crashes and burns like all the ones before, she will be back for another helping of Carguy. Hopefully by that time you will be strong enough to just say no! to another cycle.  Don't know if you've read this one before but it was a really great help for me:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

 :hug: :hug: :hug:  

Thanks Khib.

I figured it would happen sooner or later to but it still hurts. To be honest I have really been struggling. The other day while driving I was listening to a song that I recently came to really like. The lyrics express a lot of what my emotional side feels. I was missing her a lot and the song brought tears to my eyes. I'm not someone who cries much either. I was overwhelmed with emotions loneliness, hopelessness, and missing her. I also know recently that my mind is trying to go to dark places again. I am trying to keep it away from those dark places but it's hard at times.

I don't think she was trying to make me jealous here. I just happen to be driving down the road and passed some guy's pickup getting ready to pull out onto the street and when I glanced over I seen her in the passenger seat. I do believe in the past however, those times that she has seen the in public and popped up in my view, I believe those are intentional. Like I was saying the other day, she crossed the parking lot to walk by me within a few feet and then ignored me. My counselor believe it's some game she's playing. Maybe in a similar sense to what you're saying. Ignoring me trying to trigger me to chase after her or something?

You're right. I have been in this place a few times with her. I hate being here again. It hurts. I hurt.

Thank you. I am a good, caring, big-hearted person inside. It is who I am. I like helping others and caring for others. I have a lot of my own issues from my past with my mother when I was little and other hurts from childhood with other kids. I am trying to work through all those things. Sometimes I have questioned if I am a good person but I think I have a good heart. She is untreated. In fact I'm pretty sure she is undiagnosed. My therapist was the one that pointed out her behavior almost two years ago and said he believed that's what it was. I started doing a lot of reading on it and she fits the bill. Pretty much all the criteria she fits. I know she has seen a few different therapist but I don't think she has ever had any DBT.

I actually have read that but it was a couple years ago. It was a good thing to reread for me though.

Honestly I don't think she will come looking for me when it doesn't work. From what I have seen in the past the only time she comes back to me when it doesn't work is if I reach out to her. Go talk to her, apologize for the things I did wrong, stuff like that. Last summer when we were apart for those nine months she dated a few different guys she said. It didn't sound like any of them got very far or lasted very long. I believe that she would just find another guy. When she broke up with me in November she started hanging out with that other guy and then I found out about his background. He's must be out of the picture and it appears there may be a new guy. I think she would just jump from relationship to relationship. She hasn't reached out to me very often. It's a rare thing.

Tell me what your thoughts are on this. I was thinking today that somebody recently mentioned that she knows my pattern. The past pattern has been for me to reach out every so often when I start to miss her. To pop up and say hi or try to say something to her. I started thinking about that and it occurred to me that she maybe possibly waiting and expecting me to do the same pattern again. Almost like a game so she can be chased and feel wanted? This could possibly go along with intentionally walking by me just to ignore me. When I thought about all of that I told myself "If this is what is happening don't play into it!"

That would be a 100% correct assessment. I am going to rip the band-aid off here for a moment. Before you react to my words understand I am not doing a character assassination on you, but instead explaining what is going on in her head as she views you. You are predictable. You are safe. You are easy. You are always going to be the stand-by. You will never truly be option 1 because your role to her is the savior/rescuer. This is where I implore you to adopt the mind set that you are either option 1 or you are option NONE! Period! The most important part is that you learn the lesson not for her, but for yourself and moving forward. You are too damn nice and far too good of a person to get used and manipulated.

Now, I am 100% on your team and I am going to reassure you that yes your instincts are spot on and you should not play into it. Do not play her games. That is all it is. Any relationship with her will just be a game. Any attempts to draw you back in tell her to kick rocks. It is for your own sanity. Good, kind, caring people like you deserve to be treated better, but that will only happen when you send the message you are to be respected. If someone pushes and crosses your boundaries give them a warning and have the confrontation to say hey enough of that BS! If they do not comply then in your own way pull the plug on them and go about your business and save your good will and efforts for others who are worthy of your attention.

CG...you are going in the right direction. Keep your head up amigo.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

its obvious that she likes and cares about you as a person on some level.

if she feels chased or pressured, its natural that when that dies down, she might reach out. if she feels chased or pressured after that, she might then back off. thats not a game, Carguy, its human nature. we are all wired for bonding, but we try to avoid the things about people that we dont like or turn us off.

Yes, OR, it is always important to remember that people are people, BPD or no. Some things are symptoms of the disease pattern and some are just things people do.

Carguy, I often battle with the notion of what is real. For instance, the abuse, I feel I can't blame my expwBPD because she is mentally ill. But it was real to me, I suffered it. And so one has to accept that there are two realities on one relationship, and of course in its turn inevitably will lead to conflict. I mean, there am I, battling to untrigger and calm down the PTSD, while she is merry as a cricket, a little tired but feeling good because the emotional energy which was building into a storm inside her is now released. Something is going to give after enough time. Because while we were doing all of that we were not communicating except in a very toxic way.

In the same way, I wonder if what was real to you was not real to your ex. The walking past and ignoring you stuff never failed to upset you. But maybe it did something for her that worked for her?  
Well, these are deep philosophical issues I have plenty of time to ponder these days. How's it going Carguy? Are you working out and shopping at the other store in the week? Don't worry, it gets better with time.
 :hug:

Sinister,

I get what you are saying. Inside I know that I should take this mindset. Not accept being a backup. The girl I dated a little over a year ago I told her this. She decided to go back to her boyfriend but wanted to remain friends with me. I told her I would not be a backup. We remained friends but she broke up with her boyfriend a couple of times after that and would start chatting to me and throwing passes hoping to i would take her back. I didn't allow it. It was easier with her though. I had only known her a few weeks while dating. I believe I struggled so much more with my ex BPD because we have such a long history. There were a lot of good times so it tends to Cloud my mind. I am trying to work on these things though.

Once Removed,

You do bring a good point. I questioned mainly because when we have been apart before I have noticed some unusual things on her behalf that seem unusual and out of character.. My therapist mentioned in our last session that it seemed like games. The unusual things is what makes me wonder.

Khibomsis,

Good point. It might not necessarily be any BPD Behavior. I guess I have to look at it that everybody reacts differently. Here and there in the past I have noticed things on her behalf that seemed unusual while we were apart but it is hard to say for sure the reasons why. I guess I really am trying to gain better understanding of what all is going on. Partially to know how to react and partially to comfort myself?

I find myself fighting that same battle. What is real and what isn't? Is she really trying to stay in my view? Is she doing this for some reason or that? What does this or that mean?

In our relationship she would get triggered and through trial and error I found ways to calm her down. I used to get triggered but after much studying and counseling and reading here I learned to not take things personal. By actually staying calm and talking to her and looking deeper I found that looking at it through her eyes and gaining better understanding of where she was at helped me to not feel angry or upset. It was actually quite incredible. There was still a time or to that I did allow myself to be triggered. I did notice those times were a lot more rare than in the past though.

Maybe it did do something for her. Maybe attention? Maybe curiosity? Maybe reaction?

Other than that it has been going good. I have stayed away from Walmart while she is working. There has been a new development however. I will get to that in a minute. I have been going to the smaller grocery store for an item here or there and last Wednesday I went to Walmart for a big shopping trip. I went that day because I knew she had it off. I have stayed away however, this weekend she did text me. She asked if she could talk to me about something that happened in her life. I told her we could and I talked to her on the phone. I found out the unfortunate news that her nephew that she was pretty close to passed away in an automobile accident. He was in his early twenties. She was pretty upset and a few times I could hear her starting to cry. I just talked to her from a friend level and she was suggesting some things she could do as remembrance of him and I told her I thought those were good ideas. We then just chatted about things we have been up to and joked and laugh a little. She said it helped her to talk. The funny thing is while we were on the phone she reassured me that she had a great support group. I told her that was great! The thought did go through my mind that she has a great support group and yet still wanted to talk to me about it? I'm not going to say no because I do still care and will listen if she needs to talk about something like that. I'm still going to continue with shopping this way and keeping a distance however. I just feel that right now that is best for me. I am glad that we can still be friends but I think a little space is good right now.

Carguy, I am so sorry your ex's nephew was in an accident! It must be shocking. Did you know him?
Yes, as to their behaviour, it helps to know as much as possible but we can drive ourselves crazy wondering what moves them to do what they do. Because at the end of the day it is BPD. If it made 100 % sense to us we would have to be BPD too.

What we do have is the behaviour. When you stay away you feel better and she feels comfortable to contact you. This is important to both of you. I am glad to hear that she has great support, but as you can see, you seem to form a vital part of that support group.

Wonderful that you are deciding to take care of yourself! Being a support in the friendzone can be hell on earth sometimes.  I am feeling some kind of way after my expwBPD decided to spend Valentine's Day with another person. This while FOGging me about not having a date with her. But then I told myself that at the end of the day I am only responsible for making myself feel better, and focused on doing things that made me feel good. It is nice to be able to step aside from the chaos.

Take care of yourself Carguy! It will be interesting to see what happens if you do that consistently.

I did not know him. She had a sister that passed away of a brain aneurysm at the age of 25. This was that sister's son.

It does help and you have a very good point. I don't think I will completely understand her disordered mind and what everything she does means. I think the only thing I can do is be understanding and learn what I can.

So I talked to my therapist the other day. I mentioned the part about you saying that the space will help her feel more comfortable to contact me. He agreed. Last Saturday when she contacted me about this, later in the day I had to run to town for work so I stopped by her place to check on her and see how she was doing. We chatted for a little bit and then I left. A few days later I text her (Tuesday morning) and asked how she was doing. She said she was doing good and trying to figure out how to get donations to the family. I told her I would like to donate. She said she would let me know when she found out.

The next morning she text me to tell me she found out that he had been taking 18 credit hour classes in college and 12 credit hours is full time. She also said he was working so she thinks that he was likely really tired and fell asleep at the wheel in the middle of the night. Either that or slid on ice. She told me she just wanted to let me know that. It went through my mind that she was trying to reach out to me right there. It also went through my mind about what you said about space making it more comfortable for her to reach out. We text for a little bit more and even joked a little bit. To be honest I was surprised that she text me to tell me that. I haven't text her since then and I haven't seen her since last Saturday. Still keeping that space.

Another thing my therapist pointed out. I mentioned to him like you how she reached out to me but then told me twice that she had a great support group. He believes that is her starting to feel nervous and scared. He pointed out that in those moments she is probably feeling like I do. Scared to be hurt more. It made sense. Pointing that out also shows me that giving space is a good idea.

Carguy, well done for keeping a safe distance! As you can see it brings its own rewards, she does not feel engulfed and contacts you.  I know it is not the close tight relationship you were hoping for, but as long as it is positive, right?

I am glad too that you are sorting your head out in therapy. People call it the gift of BPD, by the time  we are done learning how to handle them, we have done so much emotional work we change and grow ourselves. A pity we have to suffer so to do it, but certainly I have on many occasions been thankful to my expwBPD for jolting me out of my comfort zone and inspiring me to be more than I thought I could be.

Let us know how it goes? With a bit of luck you too are on an even keel now and things will go smoothly. One thing I find very helpful is to jot down notes as to how often things go south, it helps me to track our pattern and lets me know if I am doing better at not triggering her/calming down dysregulations.