BPDFamily.com

Hi,

I feel like this may be sort of an odd question...and I can already hear some possible thoughts ("you can get sucked back into it if you do," "they may not want to," "why would you want to," etc...)

But, yeah...LOL!

25 years with BPD Spouse. No kids. Lived 100's of cycles (I'm done, I love you/can't live without you), and recent cycle felt like a straw that broke the camel's back. I've never lived alone before in my life.

While it feels SO exciting to imagine my own little place/space/existence - I can't help but still feel like it'd be abandoning him. He is 15 years older than me (65 years old now). He does not have any family (at all - they are all deceased) except for MY parents (he adores them)...only superficial work/gym friends.

Yet, even as I type this it does sorta sound like me (once again) rationalizing or or looking for ways to try to have it "both ways" (not with him, but still around in life).

Gaahh...this is all so insane to try to navigate!

Yes, I do have an amazing therapist I just started seeing about a month ago.

(Ironic that I'd literally just reentered therapy a WEEK before this last, dramatic BPD outburst - over a perceived facial expression I made - of "I'm done" and then proceeding to cut off his wedding band. Then, without comment on either side, after a few days, it has magically reappeared on his hand. He's now back in the Honeymoon/love-bombing mode now - for a couple of weeks. I Know it will not last, and I don't know that I even want it to.)

But - yeah, my question.  Is it possible, healthy, worthwhile to try to remain at least on civil, keep up with each other's lives - IF we end up divorcing?

What do ya think or what's your experience?  O_o

It is certainly possible for you to *try* to have a friendship.  Whether or not he would be able to comply with your boundaries is a different question.

There's also no reason he can't remain close with your parents as long as they are willing.  My first mother-in-law is still part of my family.  Ten years post-divorce, my (non-BPD) ex and I pretty much act like siblings looking out for her.

I sure wish I had a answer for you.  I was just wondering that before I got online. Mine is packing now 21 years hard to imagine never seeing him again.

Mmm...thanks for sharing, Stepmom.

That's what I was thinking... I mean, would he be capable of having just a friendship (which has definitive boundaries and limitations).

I honestly have no idea (which, after 25 years together speaks volumes, right?) if he's capable of that.

And I guess it's maybe out of my own sense of still caring for him - even if we can't be happy/functional - (at this point, anyways) I'd still like to believe we could be there if the other needed it.

It may be overly utopic thinking though. Especially since one of the key aspects of BPD is the "All or nothing" - either with you or not.

Meh, it was a thought.

I thought it was interesting to hear your comment about my folks. He has no living family members of his own. And he is SO enamored of my folks (fortunately, they never have, nor never will SEE that part of him - they've seen some temper stuff, but nothing at the level that I experience). They are so damn cool though, everyone loves them. And I believe they'd be okay with it (if I was), but yeah - that could be a whole "weird-ness" that I hadn't thought about.

Wow, BetterLife...  Mine pulled the "I"m done" and cut off his ring. I actually began fantasizing that "I was free now." If he pulls the cord, then I have no guilt, and it'd be the kick in the butt I needed to make the change that many people think (i.e., divorcing and living apart/alone).

But - as is typical - it was just a very dramatic cycle.

He is now wearing his ring again and acting like nothing happened.
(I'd already started looking at these cute little places and imagining decorating and all the little fun things...)

So, that's what I was thinking, too, I guess - after 25 years, just not having him around would be SO weird, but then I wonder why I would want that, if it was even a healthy pondering.

I'm sorry you're dealing with him packing. I can only hope that you're in a situation that, as hard and awful as the adjustment may be, you can in fact meet your survival needs (financially, etc.).   :hug:

Ugh. Thank goodness for counseling!

At risk of over-simplifying the issue into a single word that purports to speak for all experiences..."No".

Gift yourself closure, it's unlikely you will get it from a disordered ex-spouse.

I wrote this just this week on another thread:

I agree with what the others wrote. Also, 25 years is a long time. I was with my ex for around 20 years when I divorced him (NPD/BPD). We have kids so we still have to communicate. If it weren't for the kids, I don't think he and I would ever speak to each other again. Would it be possible for you to be friends with your ex down the road? Maybe. I think it would be difficult because of BPD behaviors. Would it be healthy? I doubt it.  You would need to enforce some really good boundaries. Also, he is an adult and it's not up to you to take care of him. I know you just started therapy. Has your therapist mentioned trauma bonding? I'm not sure if it would apply with your situation but it sounds like it might. Just throwing that out there as something to think/ask about. It's like Stockholm syndrome with a person who is not emotionally safe.

So weird, I am dealing w a very similar question today myself. He is leaving this afternoon for a week, to give us both space, because I said I thought it was over but needed space to decide. I work from home, he doesn't work, we are always under each other's feet.

I am 95% certain that I am leaving, going to visit an apartment this afternoon (he doesn't know this). I have been dreaming about leaving for months now. Maybe even years if I'm completely honest.

We have a very affectionate relationship and I love him dearly. He has never hit me, lots of emotional and verbal abuse when he's off the rails, but overall we care deeply for one another. I know he is ill, not malicious. I recognize that he's a grown man, he's also 15 years older than me, and that he can take care of himself. He did before we met. But I know how our relationship changed him, over the past 16 years of being together. And I feel immense guilt and obligation to stay. We care for his elderly mother who has dementia, she lives downstairs from us. He will find living there alone with her unbearable. The implications of my leaving are huge, for his whole family, because they may have to find a home for her so he can be free of that pressure. In any case, I wonder about remaining friends too, that's what we've been for the last year's anyway, feels more like a roommate situation than a passionate marriage. I don't want to lose him but I think I would need at least a few months of quiet peace to strengthen myself and my resolve before I could see him again.  It's a gamble.

I don't think this is possible; there's just no way the concept of "friendship" fits into their dysfunctional behavior patterns.

They're either going to want you back (and love bomb and try to do & say whatever it takes to get back together), or they will hate you for leaving them and put you in the "lifelong enemy" category.  Don't mistake the former for "friendship."  The only thing that will change that is their day-to-day moodswings and/or triangulations. 

for example, it seemed like all BPDxw's exes were in the "enemy  category" and if things were fine between us, and one of them came up, she'd talk about how bad he was, how untrustworthy, weak, manipulative, abusive, etc.  BUT if she was upset with me, suddenly her exes were examples of great guys that I could not live up to, etc. ... I suspect that if some of them lived closer, she would have tried to interact with them to "punish me" or whatever for not giving her whatever she wanted or demanded in those moments of unhappiness.

So there's a dynamic there quite outside the normal human concept of "friendship." 

Oh PeteWitsend, you are so right about how the spouse with BPD characterizes their exes. My wife did the same- when I was in her favor, her ex was evil, narcissistic, selfish, checked out, and tried to destroy her. When I was out of favor, the ex would never have treated her like that, at least he stood up for her, he’s involved and helping, he was a good dad, etc. I can only imagine the things she’s saying about me now that I’ve left her. And yet... I want us to be friends after the divorce so that she might call on me if she ever needs serious help, so that she’ll allow me to see my step kids and dogs, so that I could still be friendly with her family, so I don’t have to feel hated for no good reason, etc. Maybe part of it is that I’m just so used to jumping through hoops to “earn love” that I can’t stop? Yes, I’m in therapy and yes, my therapist and I have talked about this. I just haven’t figured out how to actually change it.

Yes, I think you just need to stop; I think you need to realize you can never actually earn it... she will just pull it away again. 

My gut instinct - before I even learned of BPD - was that I was dealing with a bottomless pit.  I could never make her happy, and any peace in our relationship was illusory.  Any sacrifices I made were always forgotten as soon as she needed something else, or otherwise ridiculed or dismissed as trivial. 

I resented this, but before I learned about BPD, and its characteristics, and how many of those my XW had, I realized there was no point in trying anymore.  No point in fighting losing battles that only serve to take a toll on one's health.

It's OK to ask yourself, "what's in it for you?"

It took a longish separation and going through a high conflict divorce to learn that. Closeout was the similarly crazy. Every single legal professional on both sides commented to me or sent word through my attorney that they felt sorry for me and were doing their best to close it out. The attorneys were pulling their hair out and ranting to each other.

I even had someone very high up related to my pension call to see what could be done because my ex was irrational and combative with their call center employees, demanding that they provide certain documents that legally they couldn't provide. I don't know if they did it, but she talked of blacklisting him and requiring that further communications be through his attorney. Mine tried to contact his regarding that and was told that his attorney was out of the office for an extended period. Then we found out that his attorney had died of COVID, so that was that. We never knew if his attorney had ended representation or if my ex just stopped calling him.

Thankfully it is all truly over now. My attorney closed mine file last month. So why on earth would I want to remain friends with someone who dragged me through that kind of legal mess? It did indeed have health consequences on me that I'm working on. Everyone in my inner circle now is kind and reasonable. Had to be!

Thank you, all, very much for sharing your experiences, thoughts, and feelings.

I suppose the "in it for me," has lots of answers...like, I feel:

1) guilty and want to know that he's okay
2) I've never lived all on my own before, so it's like a security thing (even if a blankie with some holes in it! lol)
3) maybe because I'm still in the "wishing it could work, he could 'learn', etc." and that perhaps there could be some storybook reunion?

Like, right now - we're both unhappy, unfulfilled. (Certainly, more on my-side of things)

I'm leaning toward a "trial separation," and I'd move out for anywhere from 6 months to a year.

During that interval, though, I'm not sure about the level of involvement we should have. There would definitely be LIMITS - he would NOT have a key to my place, etc. But, I feel like it doesn't have to be really ugly or contentious.

We've been together for TWENTY-FIVE years! That's a long time to be with someone - and as I'm sure many of ya can relate to, I'll always "love and care about him" - it's just I don't think I can sacrifice myself anymore. But, I do feel like I want to know he's doing okay and getting along, ya know?

Goodness...how tragic that so many people that have this disorder can be such AMAZING and GOOD human beings, but can also be so vicious, then act like everything is fine and none of that awful verbal abuse/tantrums never happened...

THANK GOODNESS FOR THERAPISTS! lol!  :wee:

sure, its possible to be friends with an ex, even an ex spouse.

i think being anything more than civil, like say, being buddies, is pretty rare, but it happens.

when it happens, it tends to be because both parties detached completely and in a healthy way, and then found a very, very different looking relationship organically.

im friends with an ex who was pretty brutal to me; wasnt a great girlfriend, cheated on me, left me for someone else and didnt tell me, then ghosted me, and then started treating me vindictively. why would i want to be friends with her? well, i didnt; it just kind of happened, some years after the fact. we have long chats every few months, and i attend her annual halloween party, and thats about it. i dont chase or desire more. i also dont touch certain subjects with her because shes easily riled up and often perceives rejection where there is none. and while i enjoy our friendship for what it is, i wouldnt lose sleep if she ever freaked out on me and cut me off or something.


i think that often times the proposition of being friends with an ex is a way of bargaining (stage 3) with the grieving process.

do you think thats what this is?

Thank you, Once!

yeah - you touched on something there I guess. I suppose it does sorta sound like bargaining, huh?
I was thinking that this morning...like, maybe I should just suck it up (again) and stay. He's been so docile, scared, etc...(totally expected, though and totally as pattern dictates). And I was like, well maybe he actually "learned" something this time and I can just "go back.: (we still live together - as dysfunctional roomies at best).

Then, I thought - "go back to 'what'?" Not doing anything together (we eat 1 meal a day together at the most, and sleep (only) in the same bed) - otherwise, we live in 2 different ends of the house. I'm not attracted to him, etc. We don't even watch movies, go do anything, etc. because all those activities got polluted by past tantrums, etc.

I have essentially walled myself off. There's an old saying:

"when someone throws so many stones at you, you reach a point where you use them to build a wall."

Ugh - so much craziness...it's so hard.

I wonder if even a shorter term relationship is this hard (25 years is SO LONG for someone to be in your life - "Eff'd up or not."

im not telling you not/never to go back. dont go back on that basis.

when people post on the Bettering/Reversing board and are trying to reconcile a breakup, one of the first things i say is that you have to understand the system of conflict between the two of you, and have as clear an outline as possible about what is going to change. and youre most likely going to have to lead that effort.

there has to be healing. you have to build a new foundation. build trust. build new ways of approaching conflict as a couple, which takes time, and practice.

its not a decision that should be made lightly, or because he is (or you are) having a difficult time coping with the breakup. the old relationship and its way of doing things will be waiting for you.


might you be describing stage four of relationship breakdown?: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down