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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup => Topic started by: bluebutterflies on May 23, 2022, 06:44:09 AM



Title: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 23, 2022, 06:44:09 AM
Hey all, first time poster here.

Long story short context: 4.5 years together, married for half a year. He's pretty much everything I want and love in a partner, supportive, loving, kind, etc etc. I think he has bpd so he's undiagnosed.

What happened: A month ago I said something that was a bit blunt (I asked if he's ever googled how to make me orgasm, I know I know) but he took off into bed. I apologised immediately but he said he needs space. He's assumed a quiet bpd, so he just stays in bed or goes to work during splits. We had a flight to vacation yesterday and I tried so hard to get him to pack but he was in his split and got mad at me if I tried to do anything. So I went to my vacation because I didn't know what to do. Arrived here, and he sent me a long message saying that hes upset at me for "taking his vacation away from him" and wants a divorce, and to never see me again.

I'm just shocked. He's only "despised me" or devalued me once before but he was able to get out of his split to realise what he was doing. Whenever we debrief about his splits, he emphasises that he wants to be with me and that he has no idea what he said or did, always apologising. I tell him of all the things hes said and hes shocked.

So I'm stuck here in a foreign country for 2 weeks. Debated going back but feel like I should give hi space. I haven't responded to his long message nor do I think I should. We were in the process of getting therapy but then this split happened.

I just would love to hear other people's advise + stories so I can stop crying. Will he come back to me?


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 23, 2022, 07:28:35 AM
I am sorry you are dealing with this. However, in a way, this situation seems to be a perfect storm. I understand why you don't see it this way but I think there are some elements to this worth noting.

PwBPD have difficulty managing their feelings, so they may project them on to someone else, blame someone else, act out, rage, say mean things, and feel like a victim. Often the partners take on a role of managing their emotions for them- such as walking on eggshells, accepting blame that isn't theirs, not doing things they want to do to avoid conflict. Not saying how they feel to avoid conflict.

One change the partner needs to make is to let them manage their own feelings. Also to not engage in circular arguments or JADE ( defending being accused when there is nothing to defend. One step to do this is to disengage, remove yourself from the argument. That can be hard to do when living in the same space. But you have found yourself in a different country! He's alone to deal with his feelings and you can't do anything about it- from this distance, except to spend your vacation on the phone with him- and I suggest you don't do this and let him manage his feelings himself. Leaving early would also reinforce his behavior.

PwBPD lack healthy boundaries and to co-exist you need to have your own boundaries, even if he doesn't like that. Also, if you were to give in to his demands and behaviors, you would be enabling the behaviors you don't want and also keeping him from learning from them. You didn't do that. This seems to be how it played out.

You said something he was upset about. He manages this by sulking, going to work- good! that is how he manages his feelings. He may need the space to do that.

He then refused to pack and go to vacation with you. A real life lesson is if you don't get ready for a trip and get there on time- well you don't go! Had you stayed behind, he would not have learned this. You kept the boundary. If you don't pack and get ready- well you don't go. You tried to get him to pack, but he's a grown man. He knows what to do. He didn't do it and you let the consequences be what they are. This shows you have not relinquished your boundaries and that's good.

He's likely going to react to missing his own vacation by blaming you. Sometimes when you act on a boundary, there's an extinction burst- the behavior gets worse. Nobody here can read minds, but his anger and divorce threats may be his acting out his own anger at the consequences of his own behavior.

Whatever he accuses you of or blames you for- keep in mind that this is his own doing. Don't fix this for him. If he wants to join you, he can get a ticket and travel to where you are at. If he wants to stay home, that's his choice too.

Your responses should be as non reactive as possible. Sometimes not responding is reactive too. One idea is to send one daily update so he knows you are safe. Please don't let him ruin your vacation. Since you are travelling alone, you need to consider safety- don't go out late at night for instance. However, whatever plans you did have- go ahead and do them. Go on a tour, see the sights, go to a museum, try out new foods, ( I don't know where you are but do the things you can do there safely ). Set the tone and schedule for your communications.

" Hi honey, I arrived here safely. I am sorry that you feel this way and wish you were here with me. I will send a text to update you every day at 9 am your time. The other times I may be out of cell phone range.  Love you."

He may send rage texts, threats, whatever. Keep to your reply schedule. The first line is a validation that you understand his feelings. You do not have to respond to the threats.

"Hi honey, I understand you are upset and I am sorry you feel that way. I miss you. I am keeping safe. I will text tomorrow at 9:00 am your time. "

What may happen- by not being reactive one way or the other, you let him deal with his feelings. If this is an extinction burst, he will likely cool down. I think you both will learn something from this time apart. For one- two weeks out of an entire marriage is not enough of a stressor to end a stable marriage. If he's truly decided to divorce you over this, then I think there's learning in this for both of you. If he is committed to the marriage, he will do his part. I know this is a scary situation for you, but it's also an opportunity that you would not have if you were not in it- because he did face the consequences of his behavior and now has to deal with his feelings.

 I hope you can enjoy yourself while you are there.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 23, 2022, 08:20:22 AM
Thank you so so so much @Notwendy for responding. I feel so much better and relate and agree with all that you wrote.

I felt such horrible guilt when going on that plane. We met in this country that I'm in and this was our first time going back together. However, he's still in a split so anything I did made him upset (like getting his passport). Before I've yelled at him to get up to go to family function but this time there's too much stuff to do to prep, I couldn't just drag him on a plane.

You're right that I need to enforce my own boundaries. I'm just so sad, everything reminds me of him.

And I'm especially scared that he's 100% serious about the divorce and never wanting to see me again. I'm hoping its not (and hes always told me that he doesn't mean what he says in splits), but I've read about people splitting black on someone, even a loved one, and never speaking to them again.

One question, do you really feel like texting him daily is helpful? In the past I've done something similar, just reminding him that I love him a few times a week but I was never sure it was helpful. Our messages today were me going "you can still come, we have time" and him being like "you took this (vacation) away from me" and me being like "I love you, I'd love for you to join me etc" and then he responded to that last one with a long mean essay about the divorce. So I'm hesitating in responding further because it feels like its escalating and he needs to calm down.

Last question, you mention that he's an adult and is capable of doing xyz. However when he's split, he's not himself, and he's just in bed all day on the phone. He's like a zombie. I know that doesn't excuse his behavior but he also isn't "himself" either. So that's why I have a hard time blaming him, whereas I am blaming the illness.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 23, 2022, 08:59:11 AM
I think some kind of schedule is helpful. This way he knows when you will contact him exactly and also gives you the space to not respond right away each time he texts. You can always say "hi honey can't text back now but will text at 9 am tomorrow".

You can set the schedule. If daily doesn't work, then every other day or whatever one you wish.

I don't think it's about "blaming" him or the illness, but more about not enabling him by taking care of his feelings for him. If his way of coping is to lie in bed - then that's what he does. BPD is on a spectrum but in general, pwBPD are still responsible for their own behaviors and can learn from natural consequences. As long as the behavior isn't seriously harmful to someone, or someone else, letting a person experience natural consequences is how they learn.

For example: if someone has been drinking too much, you do not have them drive home. They might hurt themselves or someone else.

However, if someone doesn't get ready for a trip in time or gets to the airport in time to board the plane- the natural consequence is that they miss the plane. They then learn to be more vigilant about planning next time. If you were to take on this task for them, then they would not learn this.

Just having BPD doesn't mean a person isn't capable of learning this way. However, it's a spectrum and each situation is individual.  If they are so severe that they need more constant caretaking and supervision, then this needs to be considered on an individual basis. If they are in danger of self harm or harming others, they need professional help ( calling 911 if necessary).

I understand you are fearful he might divorce you. Marriage is an agreement. Each person can make the choice to divorce. While you may not want him to do that, he still has the choice to make his own decisions. It would be understandable to be upset if he did choose that. However, take a broad perspective- if he's going to divorce you over this incident, then how strong is his commitment or ability to honor that commitment? I would say from what I have read here is that for the most part, these threats are not followed through on, but sometimes they are. However, you can't control what he chooses.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 23, 2022, 09:33:10 AM
Thank you so much @NotWendy. Seriously you do not understand how much your responses have truly helped me understand and learn.

While I am happy to continuously non-reactively text him, I am still unclear on the purpose. What is the purpose of texting someone who is in a split and sees me as evil only? What is the purpose of me potentially receiving hurtful messages from him? I understand it was an idea, I just want to make sure it's worth whatever may come out of it. And I specifically ask because he said that we are "We are done and I don’t ever want to see you again" and I worry that texting him will cross his boundaries and make him hate me more.

He has told me in our debriefs that while he will try everything in his power to get out of a split, what I can do is just continue life and focus on myself. I just need to give him space to process. I think that's why this split has been 1 month long, because we live together.

I'm hoping that losing this important trip will truly finally push him to do therapy. And it's true, I cannot control anything that he does. I just know that the real him wouldn't ever react or want to divorce me. So the idea of him divorcing me (in a split state) would hurt so much because it means the disorder took over. But I guess I will just see what happens.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 23, 2022, 10:06:23 AM
If he has told you, specifically to not contact him, then I agree to not contact him and do not answer his texts.

The purpose of a non reactive response is to not swing to either extreme in the form of an emotional reaction. One is to text constantly "please please talk to me I need you" or to be "well if he's going to act that way, I am not going to speak to him" - either is an emotional reaction that can add to the drama.

However, if you do not contact him in response to his request "do not contact me" then of course, respect that boundary. This too, is natural consequences. If someone tell someone to not contact them, then this is the response- to not contact him.

What is the point of you continuing to receive hurtful texts? You have no control over what he texts or doesn't text. All you can control is how you respond to them.

The point of a schedule is to not get into responding to a lot of texts all the time. Let's say he would text 100 times a day. Your response is " I will contact you at 9 am tomorrow" and then do not respond to other texts. It's a boundary on your time. It says " I am willing to be in contact with you at a certain time ( and not all the time).

But if he's not texting and told you to not contact him, then no need to text him on a regular basis.

Yes it would be hard if he divorced you but consider the long term of this. If this is something he's going to divorce you over, then how stable is the marriage? Marriage is for the long run. Can you assure there won't ever be stresses between you? No two people are alike, and so there is bound to be conflict at times. What he chooses is going to reflect how committed he is. Wanting to be married to you only when things are great and you don't ever upset him may not be a realistic expectation for either of you.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 24, 2022, 03:02:25 AM
Thank you so much @NotWendy.

He hasn't specifically told me not to contact him but the whole "you need to move out by June 9th, I won't be here, leave the keys, we are divorcing, I never want to see your face again" feels like he is implying that I shouldn't contact him?

Unfortunately I already reacted by calling him twice and he didn't pick up (before I wrote here). During the split he wouldn't "see" my messages but it felt like after the first text he sent, he was actively monitoring to see if I could respond, as I could see he was active and he "saw" my calls. Perhaps that's the manipulation coming out, so he can rage at me if I respond? This is why I am hesitant in responding.

I have another question. How would I know if he were to split me black? I know it's not something he can control, but we've been together for 4.5 years and with how deep our love is, I still don't quite get how one could be able to split black on someone they love. I've researched this but reading from you is so nice and helpful.

Another question. In the past, he's sorta tried to break up with me within a few splits of a month. He would type things like "I feel we should break up" or "I guess this is it" and I would just say "no we are not breaking up". The first time was after I yelled at him and he raged back and sent me a similar but not as long of a mean text (this was bedore I realised it was a mental illness). Is it helpful that I say "no" to his requests to breakup? When we debrief after the splits, he's always maintained that I don't listen to anything he says.

How long do you think it could take him to calm down and get out of this split? I know you can't predict the future but perhaps in your own experience? The longest we went without talking was 1.5 months but it was self blame so he never inflicted anything on me. This time it was triggered by what I said. It's been 1 month and 1 day. His blowup was yesterday.

In the meantime I've decided to stay for the full two weeks. I have a hard time managing my appetite, but I've signed up for online therapy and will go see some new cities. It's been hard but I'm taking it one hour at a time then one day at a time.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 24, 2022, 05:55:23 AM
Sometimes I worry that the title for the board "reversing a breakup" might give people the impression that it's possible to have control over someone else's decision to break up. We can only control our own feelings, not someone else's.

I think the intent is to have us look at our own reactions and responses. While it may be one person with BPD, it's often that two people are matched in their own dysfunctional interactions. We can look at our own parts of the situation, but we can not predict the outcome of the other person's decisions or control them.

These ideas "walking on eggshells", enabling, giving up things we really want to do to avoid upsetting the pwBPD can lead to us losing a sense of who we are, and also reinforcing their behavior- the behaviors we are unhappy about. A partner can arrive at these boards distressed at a break up, or also very unhappy in a relationship. The goal then is to see if it's possible for them to reclaim some of their own "self" and reduce the enabling behavior and see if the dynamics level down a bit to where it's workable.

Separating the person for who they are from the mental illness would lead to dismissing and excusing behaviors that they are still accountable for. PwBPD are still accountable for their behaviors. They may have difficulty regulating their emotions, but for the most part, they are considered legally competent. Someone who would not be responsible for their behaviors might be a small child, or someone with severe intellectual disability or a psychosis where they are hallucinating. PwBPD have normal intelligence. They can learn from their behaviors.

Although pwBPD have difficulty regulating their emotions, consider that even a child can learn from natural consequences. If a child forgets to bring their homework to school- the consequence is facing the teacher. This is a lesson that will remind them to bring it next time. While we don't let people cause harm to themselves or others, regular learning from the consequences of behavior is how people learn. If a child hits another child in grade school- they get sent to the headmaster's office. If a teen doesn't pick up their clothes from the floor and bring them to the washer, well- they don't have clean clothes to wear. A child may have a tantrum if they are frustrated but we let them deal with their feelings. Your H may be upset that he missed his trip- but this isn't your fault. He did this.

What keeps the people involved with them from accepting this is our own fears. Fear of someone being angry at us, fear they won't love us and so we do all we can to avoid upsetting them so they won't be upset with us. The problem is- that doesn't work, because the "upset" for them is often internal and they are projecting that on to someone or someone else.

The Karpman triangle was helpful reading for me. When someone projects/blames, they are feeling like a victim. When we enable or soothe them, we are rescuing them from their own feelings and in addition, rescuing ourselves from how uncomfortable we feel over this.

I get the picture that your H was sulking and not communicating and you had this trip planned. He wouldn't come out of his mood and get ready for the trip, so you went without him. The fact that you did this shows you have a boundary - if you don't get ready for your trip with me, I will go anyway. This is good. What he may have wanted was for you to give up something you invested in- miss the trip for him. You didn't do this. Now he's reacting to that with more of the same behavior ( extinction burst ). How long this lasts or if he chooses to break up, it's not possible to tell. But think about if you didn't go- and stayed to try to get him out of his mood? This would reinforce his behavior and you would miss your trip. Now, what happens when you want to do something and he doesn't want you to and so goes into a sulky mood? Appeasement can bring a temporary relief of the conflict but is not a long term solution.

It's good that you have decided to stay, sightsee, and do some interesting things on this trip. Self care is important. Try to do some nice things for yourself. You may not have an appetite- this is understandable. Even little things- pick up a magazine to look at, watch something good on TV- get a special coffee or tea. I agree, if he said he didn't want to see your face, and didn't pick up your calls - then let him be and don't contact him. My suggestion to schedule the texts was assuming he was texting you all day long but with him not communicating and telling you he doesn't want to see you- I agree to not contact him. That's natural consequences too. If he says to someone to not contact him, then they won't. Take this one day at a time.

The splitting black/white can be cyclic, or not. Hard to know, and also for how long, it's not possible to tell. BPD is a spectrum and each person still makes their own individual choices. I think it's great you scheduled therapy sessions. Take care of yourself for now.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 24, 2022, 07:57:23 AM
Thank you @NotWendy <3 for responding. If it's too much, no need to respond further as I don't want to burden you. I've been enjoying our conversation and your responses and re-reading them a lot.

I understand all that you say, it is just so hard to accept. I logically know that he is a functioning adult and is capable of making his own decisions. You mention his sulking, but it is more than that. When I see him, and from what he's told me, it's like he's in a disassociative state. He growls when he drops something, he doesn't like sunlight, and it looks like it physically hurts him to even move sometimes. His voice is monotone. He can sometimes forget the entire split and when he's in the split, it's like the world is upside down for him. He tells me in our debriefs that he tries to fight it so hard and seeing me as evil brings him so much pain. So it's really hard for me to accept that he is still responsible for this when he truly feels like he cannot control anything. And as for not what would happen if I want to do something and he doesn't and would sulk, that's truly never happened unless it's a split (which he has no control over I believe). He's such a loving husband. (I'm not trying to argue, just trying to put all these puzzle pieces together).

And I also understand that I cannot reinforce his behavior, but I so badly want to respond and apologise. Because in the past when it has gotten this bad, I gave in and apologised. He said he wasn't sure if he could forgive me but over time things went back to "normal." And when we de-brief, he again cannot believe he acted like this. I right now so badly want things to just be better. And I do understand that I cannot lose myself in this. Fortunately I have very strong emotional regulation (for the most part lol) and a very high sense of self esteem because I've gone through so much PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm) in my life. I feel like I can handle this but I understand that this can wear anybody down over time. I don't know. You're right in that what I have right now is fear, and that fear is losing the love of my life. I guess we won't know until I go back home.

It makes sense that he needs to learn the consequences of his actions. I'm also partially worried that if he discards me forever, that he'll move onto someone else, and never fully understand the consequences of his actions. I guess that's on him though and not me. We've just built the strongest relationship either of us have ever had so it would be hard for me to accept that it's suddenly over.

When you mentioned that this is a "perfect storm" and that this is a "extinction burst", do you mean that in the sense that we both needed to go through this to determine what is truly next in the relationship? He's tried to break up before but not this dramatically. I'm honestly so sad that I'm trying to find hope but also be realistic about this situation.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 24, 2022, 08:40:53 AM
An extinction burst is part of behavioral theory. Recall the Pavlov dog experiment. The dog presses a button and gets a treat. Then it changes and there is no treat. The first thing the dog tries is to push the button more. This works with all living beings - humans too. So when one stops reinforcing a behavior, the extinction burst is that the person may increase behavior until they realize it doesn't work. ( no treat for the dog- eventually they stop pushing the button).

In your situation, you didn't reinforce your H's rejecting behavior by staying behind. The possible "extinction burst" is that he's increased it for now.

By the "perfect storm" - in the dynamics between two people, there's the person with BPD and a partner who serves to soothe their feelings but this also reinforces these dynamics between both people. The other (and hopefully unwanted) side to this is that if we soothe someone else's feelings for them- we actually keep them from learning how to do this on their own- which is what we want all adults to be able to do- self manage their own behavior. Because you are so far away- this is the opportunity I called the perfect storm because it keeps the two of you from engaging in this pattern- and there's the opportunity for growth here.

And the risks, ( that he will move on to someone else) which you fear, but all change in dynamics comes with possible risks and benefits. Posters come here wishing their BPD partners would self regulate better. On the other hand, if you want this pattern- to be the one to soothe him- his emotional caretaker, then it's your choice. Keep in mind that being of help to someone is different from enabling. Enabling feels like helping but if it keeps the person from their own ability to self regulate- is it really helping?

To decide this, take a perspective of what is in someone's best interest. Let's say a 4 year old wants cookies for dinner. The parent says no. The child then has a big temper tantrum. What is the decision that is in the child's best interest? Soothe them by giving them a cookie? Let them deal with the tantrum because cookies are not a nutritious dinner and they need to learn to self regulate their feelings?

While any advice here may address common patterns, keep in mind that all pwBPD are unique individuals and it's a spectrum. There can be additional issues that "coexist" such as substance abuse, or infidelity, or depression or these can be absent. Dissociation can happen but how long can vary. It seems the two of you have worked out your parts in helping him debrief. If this works for you, then it does. Please take any ideas or suggestions here as just that. We are all lay people sharing what we know but take what works for you.

What struck me as different in your post is that- you took the trip. This shows that you have held on to your own individual position and from what I know about such relationships - this is a different quality than enabling. There's another side to a relationship with BPD- the partner- who may lean towards enabling to manage their own fears- but does it help the situation overall? ( you are the only one to answer that). Now, you are on your own, facing your fears- and it's scary, it's tough, but also a chance to look at them.

But you are the one to judge your relationship the best and what you wish to do in relation to your H's feelings.





Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 25, 2022, 01:02:54 PM
Thank you so much @Notwendy.

I have researched extinction bursts and everything you mentioned and have just been learning so much. It's been soothing my heart and rereading your messages has been so helpful. I definitely do not want to be an enabler or to be his caretaker. He needs to do his part. It's just difficult and I know I won't have answers for a while. But I will do my best to not continue this cycle that I know I have done by apologizing to him in the past.

I have a few more questions. In the past, we were LDR for quite some time and during his splits, he had to manage them on his own as we were LDR (even when he told me to never contact him again, he came back a month later). The times where he split and we were together irl, it was turbulent, but we were not tied to a lease or we're not married. There were always deadlines, the biggest being he had to fly back home.

Now that we live together and he's been split for a month and a few days now, I'm wondering how to honour his boundaries from his message. To note, he said: he is finding someone to deal with the divorce papers, he doesn't want to see my face again, his despise for me has been growing stronger to the point where it's gone too far or he can't turn it off, he won't be in the apt when I come back, and that the keys need to be in the mailbox by June 9th.

I kinda doubt he will leave because he's financially strapped and tied to the lease (though my name isn't). So with these requests (all embedded in a rage message), do I follow through assuming there is no conclusion? I did message him saying that I do not want to divorce but respects his decision and that I love and care for him.

I feel that right now we are both in a perfect storm, but I am unsure how to ride this storm when I come back. I understand I am prepping for the worst, but I need to do so or at least understand from others.

What truly frightens me is that now I am remembering that he broke up with his last gf of 1 year, a few days before we began hooking up. He moved out immediately and I don't recall why they broke up. I am so scared he is doing the same; and I understand I must face my fears. He has also mentioned cutting off people when they've done something wrong (I brushed this aside, I assumed the best).

In the past when he said we should break up (like once or twice) I just said no. But he had sent no threats or boundaries.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 26, 2022, 04:53:45 AM
Logistically first- if your name isn't on the lease, then he's the only one obligated to it, and it's up to him to break it ( and pay the penalty ) if he doesn't. If he isn't able to do that financially, then he probably plans to stay there.  What his message sounds like is that, when you come back, he won't be there at the time, and you need to move out by the 9th and leave your keys in the mailbox.

If this is his intention and he's on the lease but you aren't- then I don't think you can stay there if he won't allow that, so you need some place to stay. Do you have a friend or family member you can stay with for a short while? There really isn't a lot of time for you to search for an apartment. If you have furniture, it should be easy to get a storage unit for it.

This is the logistics and may or may not happen. He may change his mind or he may not. But in the case that he means it, you need to have some place to stay and should consider a plan for that.

I think you have responded appropriately- you have told him you don't want to split up. His next decision is really up to him, and even if it's understandably not what you want, I think having a plan of what you would do if he did follow through is important. I would not suggest a long term one as it's hard to know what he's going to do, but staying with a friend, or family, or short term stay hotel/lease is an option. Either way- if he leaves and breaks the lease, or stays and insists you leave, you need somewhere to stay.

One thing you brought up is the question of - is this his pattern? To break up over conflicts or painting someone black, cutting people off, and would he do that to you? I don't think it's possible to know if he will until you see if he follows through with what he said. I do think you should plan for that if he does - so you have some place to stay.

What is interesting is that an LDR creates space at times. It's different when two people are living together all the time. Marriage is an adjustment for any two people, even people without a disorder have to work out living with each other- people have different habits and ideas of what they like. The commitment of marriage leads them to work out their differences- one doesn't walk out the door at a conflict. The question is- can your H manage the day to day living situation with someone else? Can he resolve differences with someone else in a different way than walking out? I don't think it's possible to know what he's going to do.

I know it's hard to be wondering, but all you can do is take this one step at a time. Have a back up plan of where to stay if he follows through with his plans. If he chooses to go through with a legal divorce, that's his decision. You don't have to do this for him- he has to follow through with that plan.

You asked about boundaries and boundaries are a reflection of our own values. How to honor his boundary?

There really isn't anything you need to do for him. He stated a plan, and now it's up to him to act on it, or not. On your part, what is needed is a plan to take care of your basic needs, such as a place to stay.











Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on May 26, 2022, 07:05:17 AM
Hi blue butterflies and welcome,

I don’t have much to add to all not Wendy’s wonderful advice. I just wanted to say, I’m thinking of you. I think you are so brave to go on the vacation on your own and this was absolutely the right thing to do. Have you read, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. I highly recommend it and you can get in in audiobook too.

My own story is completely different, but your husband sounds very similar to my wife. This is a brief version of the past 15 months for us: My wife had forbidden me from taking photos of our children and/or sharing them with my mother. My Mum was devastated about this. As I could see a horrifying future where my mother died thinking I didn’t love her, I decided to take a stand, and announced to my wife that I would be taking and sending photos to my mother. No amount of explaining why this was a kind and reasonable thing to do were of any help. But I was willing to risk my marriage over this..

My wife responded much as your husband has, and told me our relationship was over for “disrespecting her wishes”. We continued to live together but she completely withdrew from me emotionally and physically. One of my first posts on here I think was titled, “my wife has turned and I can’t get her back”.

This is a story of hope. Don’t give up just yet. After a couple of months, I found this website. I read books, and gained so much advice from the wonderful people on here. I started changing how I spoke to my wife, and how I behaved around her.

Our relationship is now better than ever. My wife knows nothing of how much I have learnt, and has not been working on any self-improvement herself. (Why would she? Lol). But she now treats me with more respect and is generally more sane.

I wish you all the best.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 26, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Dear @NotWendy. You have asked so many great questions that I am thinking a lot about and cannot answer them all right now. By the way, I just want to emphasise to you that I am reading all of your responses. I looked back and saw that some of my responses seemed to ignore what you wrote, but please know I am taking it alll in 100%! :)

Jumping back to behavioral science, to make sure I am understanding correctly, my understanding is that my H must experience the consequences of his actions in order to learn how to control himself next time, like the Pavlov experiment. For example, if I were to not listen to him and just stay in our apt, that may not be good because I am still appeasing to him. Or it means that I am breaking his boundaries. However, moving out is doing what he asks, even if it means he can possibly throw another tantrum.

I also feel unsure because even though his name is on the lease, we agreed that this was our apartment. What if I ignore his request and stay? Or does any of this logic just go out the window when trying to respond appropriately to these situations?

The last part of his rage text was "For when you return I won’t be here and I expect you to be out of the apartment by June 9. Leave the keys in the mailbox. I will have someone take care of the divorce papers. We are done and I don’t ever want to see you again."

My understanding also is that a lot of pwBPD often threaten their loved ones because they want to self sabotage but also hurt their loved ones in the meantime. Like it is a way to hold power, and testing you. I understand it in that he may not actually want me to move out or divorce, and is testing whether I will do it. If I do follow his demands and move out, it means I don't care about him. Thus I am utterly confused.

Additionally, leaving my keys there would be so difficult. There's so many logistical things like what if I forgot something, packages are coming, mail for me, etc. :(

(kinda just ranting here, I know you may not have legal advise. I might be spiraling). The unfortunate part of that scenario is I just moved to his country and am waiting on my visa, which only my H will get the news via his email as he is a citizen. I also know only 1 person here, and not very well. If I were to go back to my origin country, I cannot enter again until my visa is approved. Staying and risking not knowing that I potentially got denied, means I am illegally staying. This is so difficult.

The other unfortunate thing is that as mentioned, he is assumed a quiet uBPD. So he just doesn't talk to me all day and is in bed, zombie-like. So there is a high chance I will just have to go home and go from there, as I doubt there will be any follow up message for me to go from. I'm pretty sure he will be there as well.

-

@thankful person

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I have not read that book but I will do so. I am so glad that you have decided to take a stand—it is quite difficult and scary, but so brave. I do feel like taking this trip reminded me how strong I am, and I needed that reminder. Having so much support from here means so much to me.

It means so much to me that you shared your story. I spend hours on forums and it's difficult to find success stories, until I stumbled here. I do believe that my H is worth fighting for, at least until either of us don't want to anymore. What I'm learning the most about is how cyclic this behavior is and will continue to be, unless I reinforce my own responses and boundaries, because that is all I can do really. I am so glad your wife is treating you with more respect! <3 Take care and feel free to share updates.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 26, 2022, 12:40:35 PM
I understand it in that he may not actually want me to move out or divorce, and is testing whether I will do it. If I do follow his demands and move out, it means I don't care about him. Thus I am utterly confused.

I'd be confused too. We mostly assume people mean what they say, so it's hard to say he doesn't mean this.

With the push-pull, it's not that they don't mean what they say. It's that they are upset and say what they mean in the moment while they are feeling upset. Once the "bad feelings" have been projected, they don't feel bad and then don't feel the same as when they said that.

Probably every married person has had moments where their spouse, or parent, or child, is annoying. But people with good emotional regulating skills know better than to say something hurtful. We know the consequences if we say it- we can hurt the feelings of someone we care about. If we said something like that at work, we could get fired, so we have constraints. PwBPD may not.

The way I am looking at this ( and you know your H better so I could be wrong) is that he's not testing you. My "read" on this is that he was very upset in the moment and said this. Once he cools down, he may not mean it. I just can't predict what he will do after saying this. We can't read minds. But the pattern generally is that, they cool down and then it's expected that everyone will forget what they said.

The suggestion to make a plan for where to stay if he does go through with this is different from you taking action to carry out what he wants. If he wants a divorce, if he wants you to move out, that's on him. Your job is to take care of you, so the suggestion for a contingency plan ( that you may or may not need) is so you are not left without a place to stay. I don't suggest you move out for good, sign another lease or leave. It would be a temporary situation if you have no choice. Basically an emergency plan that you hope you don't ever need.

Your other option - to just stay anyway- you could do that if you think it's better to do that. Personally, I'd have a hard time staying physically in the same place while someone is telling me to leave, but I have friends in town who have guest rooms in their houses. On the other hand, your situation is a bit more complicated in that, this is a new place for you and you don't really have anywhere else to go. It's not as if you are near friends or family and can go sleep in a spare room if you get told to leave. I also don't know the marriage laws in your area - it may not be legal to kick a spouse out who has nowhere to go. I don't think you can just put your spouse out on the streets. I have no legal expertise at all, and it may help to look at the laws where you are so you know what they are, but my guess is that he won't follow through on what he said.

This is why we all have to look at our own personal situations and do what is best for us in that situation. I think the main thing is- you do not fulfil his wishes for him (whatever they are) because leaving isn't what you want to do. He is responsible for taking action himself.  If he wants a divorce, he needs to get a lawyer. If he wants you out of the apartment, then he has to kick you out. On your part- you need to take care of yourself. If he gets a lawyer, then you need to get one to represent you. If he kicks you out, you need some place to stay. You can be clear about your feelings. "I love you and want this to work out" but it's not possible to control his. For the time being, do nothing to either end the marriage or divorce- just wait this out for now. He may very well cool down. You just need to know what to do if he did go through with it.

Can he have space in the apartment? Is there a spare room? If he remains serious, it's then a discussion about reality. "Honey, I hear what you wish me to do. I wish you didn't feel this way but I will do what you have asked me to do. At the moment, I have nowhere to go as I just got to this country. If I return to my country, I will lose my visa. I need to get a plane ticket. Please give me some time to make arrangements. I will stay in the other room while I make these plans. I can be out of here by July 15 ( or whatever day works for you).

Then go about your business.

I can't predict what he does but from what you tell me, I can guess. If he's the quiet type, is that when you get back, he will be there, and be moody. You will act normal, and never bring that conversation up again. Eventually he will snap out of it and pretend it never happened.
















Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on May 26, 2022, 05:45:41 PM

I can't predict what he does but from what you tell me, I can guess. If he's the quiet type, is that when you get back, he will be there, and be moody. You will act normal, and never bring that conversation up again. Eventually he will snap out of it and pretend it never happened.


This is my experience with my wife. I have learnt so much but the number 1 thing I was doing wrong was the whole “dysfunctional dance”, buying into the drama, joining in with it. It’s almost as simple as “being the adult”. And I hope you don’t take that the wrong way… it’s like, if a child wants more ice cream and you say no… they might scream, “I HATE you and I never want to see you again!”! But you know they don’t mean it. So (if you’re relatively stable) you wouldn’t take this too seriously and would easily move on from it, as would the child. Of course a pwbpd can keep up such a tantrum for a long time. In my wife’s case, it took nearly 3 months to move on from my stating that I was going to be taking and sending my mother baby photos. I think my wife conveniently forgave me because she was weeks away from birthing our second child, and wanted us to be “together” for that. If I had read the advice on here sooner and bought into the drama less, then I think she would have got over it sooner.

In my own experience, my wife’s rejection or criticism of me, or even just being moody/angry/upset for any reason whether known or unknown, I just couldn’t handle it. I was so angry, so upset. So desperate for her approval. And it made things worse.

In a nut shell I started looking after myself, making choices for myself, and standing up for myself. Walking away if she didn’t respect me. I learnt to validate her feelings (without agreeing with her) and not to JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain). Usually keeping my mouth shut I found to be surprisingly extremely effective. I have learnt to accept that my wife will not change and that I need to look after myself and respect myself. She is emotionally disabled and seemingly unable to recognise her own bad treatment of others and/or apologise. There is absolutely no point in dwelling on whether she is capable of it or not. Ironically she actually has changed in response to my changes. I am still astounded.

I know that you are in a very scary place with the future uncertain. I hope things work out for you because if your husband can move on from this then I have absolute confidence that you can improve your relationship with him in the future (even without him choosing to make changes). He will certainly have learnt an interesting lesson about the importance of preparing and going on holiday if you want to have a holiday. We’re here to help no matter what happens.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 27, 2022, 06:47:43 AM
I think thankful person and I are saying similar messages. Take care of yourself. Your H's emotions might sway but you don't have to ride those emotional waves with him.

Your leaving on the trip is a form of self care. You decided that just because he was going to miss it, that didn't mean you have to.

Having a plan in case he were to kick you out of your home isn't taking action to leave him. It's self care to not be left with no place to go. I realize your situation is not the same as someone who has family /friends nearby- so that may be you staying in another room of the apartment if he wants to be alone. The idea is to not add emotional fuel to the drama.

See the difference.  "Get out of the house" and a panicked "oh no, please don't make me leave, I love you, please please" is different from calmly saying " I love you honey but as you wish, I will be in the other room ( or friend's house, or hotel, or whatever you arrange)" is less reactive.





Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on May 27, 2022, 06:13:12 PM
"Get out of the house" and a panicked "oh no, please don't make me leave, I love you, please please" is different from calmly saying " I love you honey but as you wish, I will be in the other room ( or friend's house, or hotel, or whatever you arrange)" is less reactive.


Absolutely agree. During those 3 months when my wife had totally split on me, she continually told me she wanted me to leave, and she wanted a divorce, whenever I tried to say something to “fix” the relationship, or tell her I loved her or tried to initiate physical contact. I would then be like, “do you want me to move out? Tell me you want me to move out! Shall I book a room somewhere?” (This was in the middle of the covid lockdown, so hotels were closed, we were self isolating due to her pregnancy, and I desperately didn’t want to be away from our other baby…) And what did she say, “do whatever you want. You know I don’t want you here and I don’t want to be married, I don’t want to be with you. I DON’T CARE what you do…” And we had this same conversation many times every day for nearly three months. Looking back, had I had the confidence and self-respect to not be constantly begging for her approval… adding fuel to the fire as they say… I know she would have dropped the whole thing sooner. I know this because it’s amazing how quickly she gets over things these days or doesn’t even bother creating drama.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 28, 2022, 12:00:53 PM
I'm processing everything and after a week, things are beginning to be much clearer for me. I've spent a lot of this time (don't worry, I'm enjoying my vacation!) thinking about the past splits and thinking through a "pattern" in reaction and action (in quotes because it is not confirmed and may not be true). @Notwendy, you saying that I know my husband best, echoed in my mind. I do know him best. Thus I did a lot of thinking. To sum it up: he has never laid hands on me, never said anything abusive to me in person outside of splits, never dragged an emotion or idea from the split to post-split. He is quite emotionally intelligent and empathetic, thus I'd say he is on the more calm side of BPD. The splits usually go as:

Trigger > Storm off to bed > Sulking (watch tv) + work > no or little contact with me irl or LDR, and the contact is usually fine> one day gets out of the split and hugs and apologises > wants to move on and never talk about it again.

The only times he's raged, which isn't often, is when: 1) I provoke him in person by yelling or anything physical like banging on the door etc 2) another trigger that is not my fault, like my leaving for this trip. I believe that he does this simply out of emotion, like a child says "I hate you!", as @Notwendy mentions.

After this split, I will never provoke him ever again. I had my reasons to do so a few weeks ago, but I found a way around to get what I needed. Learning to be truly independent, has been very effective. I will not react emotionally and fight fire with fire. As you both mention, I will set my own boundaries and follow them, and not negotiate with him when he is emotionally dysregulated.

I am coming to the decision that I will simply stay at my apt, as past experience (though I know may not be indicative of future) shows that he does not communicate with me fully until the split ends. I'm not sure if I will stay in the living room or in our bed with him, so I will play by ear when I get back, because again I have no expectations. I agree with @Notwendy, that he processes emotions like a child, simply just needing to scream, never trying to intentionally manipulate me despite what he writes, but needing to put the blame on me so he does not feel it. While I could stay somewhere else for a bit, I don't have the financial resources to do so and I also don't want to be putting his feelings first. He needs to learn how to deal with his splits, with me in the house. That is until he truly communicates that we are no longer together, which of course I hope doesn't happen.

In the meantime, I will continue to work, I will cook, I will just do me. Who knows how long this split will last, but I cannot cry about him everyday anymore.

I've spent today listening to half of the audio book that @thankfulperson recommended "stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist." So far the audiobook has been tremendously helpful for me. By learning and putting all of the pieces together, can I understand these situations better and how to proceed. Before I identified as the caretaker that soothed his emotions. Now I identify as one that puts my boundaries first.

It is clearer now to me that his behavior is still abusive. I'm learning the steps on how to proceed with moving forward with this information, assuming we are still together and we discuss everything after the split. As the audiobook says, I approached past situations with vagueness in fear, but now I must learn how to approach them putting me first. I am truly finally understanding the situation for what it is. Even some of my earlier responses were riddled in fear and insecurity, but after learning so much and prioritising my own needs first, I feel much stronger now, less scared, and ready to face the unknown. It is very very true that the only thing I can control is what I do, so I will do my best to continue to learn.

I cannot follow someone who cannot see the light themselves. I must follow me, because that is all I have.

Thank you so much truly @Notwendy + @thankfulperson, for sharing your insights and stories. It is always so great hearing from you both. I will continue to update if anything happens (hopefully good!)


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on May 28, 2022, 06:19:42 PM
Blue butterflies, I am glad to be of any help tbh. I learnt so much from not Wendy and the others too, as well as the books. I’m glad you’re reading the caretaking book. I love the audio book format it is so validating and the closest I got to going to therapy. In fact, I still listen to the audiobooks on repeat in my car, most days when I’m driving alone. I cancelled my audible monthly membership but I still seem to be accessing the books I bought.


After this split, I will never provoke him ever again.


I know what you mean, you have seen the light with regard to intending to keep the peace more effectively. However, in my experience, most days I may say one thing that triggers my wife a little, but it’s how you handle it afterwards that matters if the wrong thing pops out your mouth. Basically, I feel so much more in control, and as we have children too it’s wonderful to know my wife will calm down soon rather than being angry for hours. If she refuses to move on from any incident I just say, I am going to go and get something done, and she understands that this is an undesired consequence on her part as she doesn’t like being left alone.

In fact it’s great that you’re learning so much early on in your relationship. Every holiday or celebration we had together was absolute hell before I joined bpd family and learnt the tools on here. Now things are so much better. I still can’t get over it.

On the original subject of your questioning him about orgasms.. I left my ex boyfriend for my wife. But I stayed with him for several months after telling him I was leaving, as I just couldn’t bear to leave him. It’s sounds terrible I know. It was complicated became I loved him and he was devastated. Anyway, he immediately became the perfect man after I said I was leaving. And was also able to demonstrate a new ability to make me orgasm. I had been with him for 13 years. Who would have known?


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 29, 2022, 06:58:42 AM
After this split, I will never provoke him ever again.

You can decide to not deliberately provoke him, but you can not control his emotions if he feels upset about something. Chances are, you will eventually say or do something that he reacts to. It's just how it is. As Thankful Person said- what you can control is how you react to that. If you can stay calm and less emotional, and let him self soothe, then you won't add emotional fuel to the drama.

Be careful to not walk on eggshells around him to try to avoid him feeling upset. That is managing his feelings and also a stressful situation for you. There's a difference between deliberately provoking someone and walking on eggshells to avoid their feeling upset.

You can learn that some things you say may feel invalidating to him. One thing I learned with my BPD mother is that friendly suggestions feel invalidating to her, or she feels as if they are orders ( and she doesn't like to be told what to do). So, I have learned to not make suggestions unless she asks me for advice. I can still ask her to do something if I want to, and she may get upset, but that is her choice. You can learn some of these things about your H, but don't walk on eggshells and try to avoid every upset.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Anonymous1847 on May 29, 2022, 07:16:41 AM
In my experience regardless of splitting or whatever stage they are in, you cannot trust them. They will ALWAYS betray you and it is simply a matter of time. They are like ticking time bombs that can go off at any moment. You won't even see it coming as they will smile in your face, as they throw you under the bus. You know that expression amongst good friends that's like "if you killed someone I would help you hide the body". Well in the case of your BPD friend/lover/spouse they would smile at you, offer to help, and throw you under the bus and be the star witness for the prosecution. Do not trust someone with BPD with anything. They will lie, cheat, steal, and set your house on fire if it suits them.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 29, 2022, 08:54:26 AM
thankful person: It took a while to get here. As my H isn't diagnosed, I don't even know if it is truly BPD but even then, having all of these resources and this community has already been tremendously helpful. Interesting to know about your ex bf! My H is quite loving sexually and do care about my needs. He's out buying toys for me, and even recently decided to try a new trick. I truly did not mean to say what I did, it was the wrong sentence coming out of a completely different thought. But I understand it triggered something deep inside of him, perhaps that he thinks he is not good enough, etc which then translated to rage directed at me.

For both thankful person and Not wendy, to clarify when I mean that I will never provoke him again, I mean I will never physically provoke him due to my frustrated emotions. No yelling, no pulling his sheets off (I did this in the past when I thought he was just being an ass). For example, I needed him to pick up a package a few weeks ago which had my passport. The package was addressed to him. Though I had already asked him kindly to pick it up, his split worsened and he was unable to do so. When he woke up one morning, I knocked on his bathroom door until he opened it with raging eyes, asking me to leave. I went back to the bedroom crying, and sent him an emotional text. He emotionally texted me back with rage. This was the first time he's ever texted "I think we should end things". I later in the day took the package slip to the shop myself and was able to pick up my package. Problem solved. Now I learned I can just address packages to me.

So, while I cannot control his actions such as being triggered to trivial things, I need to learn to control what I do as you both mention. I had hoped that knocking would get him out of the split, and he would realise I needed him. I knew from past experience that this could make his split worse, yet I believed I could change him. This was my mistake. I now know better, after listening to more of the audiobook. Even cleaning after his mess and throwing out his water bottle, made him more upset. Getting his passport from his closet upset him, and I was trying to help him, thus help manage the situation. What I know now, is that I cannot control what he does. He must get his own passport out, must clean his own messes (I think?).

For the most part, I do not walk on eggshells. As I mentioned, my H and I have a very strong, honest, and healthy relationship, save for the BPD. There have definitely been moments where I have been nervous that he would split, but I do my best to make sure I vocalise my wants, needs, concerns, etc. He listens to them all and does actively work on them. This is why I was so especially shocked to read his rage message this time around.

Dear Anonymous1, I believe you are on the wrong board. This board is for people like me who are talking to those who can support, give insight, and share experiences, in order to better a relationship.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 29, 2022, 09:48:15 AM
(Emotional post) He messaged me. He said "You have 4 days to pack your PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm) when you get back. That should be more than enough."

I am so heartbroken. He's never really responded to me during a split so I don't know...I'm so upset. I was just feeling so much better. No need to respond to this, just updating. I haven't done anything back, no calling him etc.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 29, 2022, 10:53:47 AM
Is this 4 days from today?

When are you scheduled to return?

Could this be a way to get you to return early?


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 29, 2022, 11:08:09 AM
"You have 4 days to pack your stuff when you get back. That should be more than enough"

So it is still June 9th as he mentioned before. I am scheduled to arrive back on June 5th. So I suppose I should just pack then when I get back. I guess we won't know what happens until I am there. I don't hold any expectations or hope. But this message still hurt me deeply. He's quite never followed up a rage message, ever.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 29, 2022, 11:18:15 AM
Yes, just deal with this when you get back. There would be enough time to pack after you get back if this is still what he is saying.

I just wondered if this could have been a threat "get back now before I get rid of your stuff" but it's not.

It still may also be a manipulation to upset you enough to come home early and plead with him, but if you did do that, it would be reinforcing this manipulative behavior.

You could either not respond to that text or text a non emotional drama reply.

First validate " I agree honey, 4 days is enough time for me to do that when I get back. I am sad that you feel this way, but I understand what you wish for me to do. See you on June 5"

This does not say " I am making plans to leave". It says "I hear what you want me to do, and agree there's time for me to do this when I return"


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 29, 2022, 12:06:22 PM
Part of me definitely in the moment wondered if I should have just stayed, maybe this all could have been avoided. But like you said, I needed to assert my boundaries and come. I will definitely not come home faster.

Agree to deal with this when I get back. I called the Trevor Project and I feel a bit better. I'm going to sleep now—will think about whether I want to respond or not. Thank you so much Notwendy.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 29, 2022, 01:04:34 PM
While staying may have avoided this one conflict, it would also be on the path of giving up aspects of yourself in order to keep the peace. It's understandable to not wish to upset your spouse. Nobody wants to see someone they care about be upset. However, this tends to be a pattern of how conflicts are "resolved" between two people. It's not resolution, it's one person appeasing/soothing the other person's feelings by not doing something they want to do, or doing something they don't want to do. The result of this kind of pattern is that the other person can become resentful and also "lose" themselves- lose their own separate identity and become only the reflection of the pwBPD.

Staying home may have prevented this one conflict, but the next one would have a similar reaction and there will be a next one. Even in the best of relationships - no two people are exactly alike. They have differences, they have conflicts. The difference is in the dynamics. Two people who are not disordered can work things out in a functional manner. Some one with BPD has difficulty managing their own feelings, and they can act out. Then the partner has to decide how to deal with that.

I am curious why you contacted the Trevor Project. Your profile says you are straight. I don't think it makes a difference in the dynamics whether it's a same sex or heterosexual relationship. The dynamics have to do with BPD and intimate or close relationships ( such as family members ).



Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 29, 2022, 02:34:14 PM
and to Anonymous1847: Some people have had horrible experiences with a pwBPD. It is a spectrum disorder and there can be variable behaviors. Some pwBPD do indeed lie, cheat on their spouses and be very abusive. Some do not. Regardless of where a person stands on the BPD spectrum- a common issue is their difficulty with emotional regulation and poor sense of self.

BPD seems to cause the most difficulty in their most intimate or close relationships. A high functioning pwBPD may get along with others who are not close to them, others will have difficulty with friends and co-workers. But no matter how well they function with less intimate relationships, pwBPD have difficulty with the people closest to them, and so an intimate relationship with someone with BPD can be difficult.

The partner or person in a relationship with someone with BPD has a part in the dynamics. Some people choose to try to work on this first and then assess the relationship. Others choose to leave. It's a personal choice. While it can be a difficult relationship, sometimes leaving a relationship can be difficult too. There isn't a one size fits all answer.

I understand you must have had a terrible experience- and you are not alone in this- others have too. Some people first try to work on their relationships and arrive at the same conclusion you did. Others do not. It's really an individual path.

We don't have the ability to control another person's behaviors. If someone's partner with BPD lies, or throws them under the bus, it's not because their partner didn't do enough or didn't do something correctly. It's because the person with BPD chose that behavior. Our part is to decide how we respond to that. Likewise, if someone's relationship improves because they worked on their part in it, how their partner with BPD responds is up to the pwBPD. It is a spectrum. You did nothing wrong and you didn't deserve that.



Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 30, 2022, 12:32:08 AM
I just googled something like "Need to talk to someone now" and Trevor Project came up. I was so emotional I didn't read the description. They said that they are here for me and I am welcome to call back again though. Not sure if I will, I don't want to take up space from others in the LGBTQIA+ community. I am also bisexual but I just chose straight as it wasn't an option.

Agreed that staying home wouldn't have done much. I'm torturing myself thinking about the "what-if's" so I know I must stop. I am so mad, so sad, so hurt. I'm especially scared that these 4.5 years that we spent together, such a beautiful and special connection, will be over. But I know I need to face that fear.

Though I know I can't do anything until I am back and start to pack, my anxiety is just through the roof. So I will try to self soothe and get out of the hostel. I still will not respond right now.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 30, 2022, 03:10:51 AM
And while earlier I had decided on staying, before his follow up, I am guessing that now it may better to do as he says. I still struggle with this because it feels like by doing what he requests, he is controlling me. Yet at the same time, he needs to learn the consequences of his actions. Yet, it can turn into a cycle because I will just do what is asked.

Either way I won't know until I get back but I am just mentally prepping myself.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 30, 2022, 05:48:31 AM
I am glad they (Trevor Project) were there for you! I think if they said to call if you need to then, it's fine. I just got a bit confused as I know they are founded to help with LGBTQ concerns but it seems they are there for anyone to call if needed and want to help.

Take care of yourself. Understandably, you have invested a lot in this relationship. The other part is on him, he needs to be invested as well. You are worth the investment - on his part- too. Hopefully these are just empty threats on his part, you will see in a few days.



Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: 60av8tor on May 30, 2022, 09:03:01 AM
(Emotional post) He messaged me. He said "You have 4 days to pack your PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm) when you get back. That should be more than enough."

I am so heartbroken. He's never really responded to me during a split so I don't know...I'm so upset. I was just feeling so much better. No need to respond to this, just updating. I haven't done anything back, no calling him etc.

Reading through this thread and I’m sorry you’re going through all this. I’m in a similar scenario with my wife - 4.5 years together, just under 3 married. She split, filed for divorce, and a protective order several months ago. A few of your experiences/comments that struck me:

- he wants you to move out, but actually doesn’t - so many things in these relationships is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. So many lose-lose propositions, especially during spirals

- can’t understand how he can just split. This was what made things emotionally devastating for me. My brain doesn’t work this way. It got easier when I stopped looking at her behavior through my non-BPD lense. Until that point many things make NO sense.

- broke up with ex days before your relationship. Even though my wife said it had been a long time since she was in a previous relationship, it always felt like she was coming out of a bad relationship when we met (comments, behaviors, etc). She always denied it. I’m hindsight I am 150% convinced I was someone’s immediate replacement.

This disorder is sad, frustrating, defeating, etc. I’m learning that some of my reactions definitely exacerbated the situation, but at the end of the day, the energy I expended trying to appease my “honey-badger” (a term of endearment we both used) is WAY beyond the energy required in a “normal” relationship.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Cat Familiar on May 30, 2022, 09:42:58 AM
*Honey badger*  lol  I guess your subconscious had a good idea of what you were in for!


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 30, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
Yes 60av8tor I relate to everything you write. And now I'm truly able to see him for who he is, a man with Bpd, whereas before I would constantly separate the BPD from him. Whatever happens, happens. I cannot control his actions. I have enough self respect to now know what I deserve. That being said, I will still try to better this relationship, only if he chooses to do so as well.

I responded to him and said "Yes, 4 days from when I get back is enough. I do not want to move out but I will do as you wish." I then restricted his messages so that I must actively search to see if he responds. This way I am ready.

He responded and said "I don't give a PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)". I said "Okay I will do so then, since that is what you want." He said "F*cking fantastic!"  

I recognise he is still raging in his split (he's only said "f*cking fantastic" once ever in a split too). But I am giving him nothing emotional to feed off of. I'm not crying anymore, I'm able to read his responses as reactions. This feels better.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: 60av8tor on May 30, 2022, 12:12:59 PM
*Honey badger*  lol  I guess your subconscious had a good idea of what you were in for!

Ha ha - yes, she coined the name for herself first. I even bought her a honey badger t-shirt. If I only knew…


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: 60av8tor on May 30, 2022, 12:14:30 PM
Yes 60av8tor I relate to everything you write. And now I'm truly able to see him for who he is, a man with Bpd, whereas before I would constantly separate the BPD from him. Whatever happens, happens. I cannot control his actions. I have enough self respect to now know what I deserve. That being said, I will still try to better this relationship, only if he chooses to do so as well.

I responded to him and said "Yes, 4 days from when I get back is enough. I do not want to move out but I will do as you wish." I then restricted his messages so that I must actively search to see if he responds. This way I am ready.

He responded and said "I don't give a PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)". I said "Okay I will do so then, since that is what you want." He said "F*cking fantastic!"  

I recognise he is still raging in his split (he's only said "f*cking fantastic" once ever in a split too). But I am giving him nothing emotional to feed off of. I'm not crying anymore, I'm able to read his responses as reactions. This feels better.

Sounds like you’re gaining some clarity and going about things in a safe, logical way. Glad to hear it :)


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 30, 2022, 10:54:43 PM
I am gaining clarity but now I've woken up to him un-friending me on Facebook. That is where we mainly communicate. I can still message him though. He also changed his profile photo and cover photo to all black. This is extremely abnormal and I'm a bit worried.

I really don't want to be here anymore. I want to deal with the situation face to face. Five more full days alone is too long. :( I'm considering going back early but I don't know as Notwendy you suggest not to. But I don't know if I can bear any of this anymore.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 31, 2022, 02:02:30 AM
Never mind I cannot fly back early. Sorry y'all I'm just being emotional


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on May 31, 2022, 07:56:34 AM
No need to apologize. This is tough.

Please consider some ideas-

One is that this is him projecting feelings, "punishing" you for asserting yourself. Maybe he means it, maybe not, but he's acting out on you holding a boundary, similar to a kid who asks for a cookie for dinner. The parent says no, the child has a tantrum- screams "I hate you" to the parent.

Another is his capacity for relationship stability. Every relationship has conflicts. Looking at his past relationships- is his way of dealing with conflict to discard them? You mentioned he has done this in the past. How capable is he of maintaining a long term situation living with someone? ( you may not have the answer to this).

While you wish this situation didn't play out like this- one thing to consider is- this is one conflict of what is inevitable some conflicts or stressors in any relationship. When someone commits to marriage, this means both people are committed to working these things out ( unless of course they are major ones such as abuse, addiction, infidelity- those things can be a deal breaker for marriages)- conflicts like not being ready for a trip and the other one going are not major deal breakers in general.

However, each person has his or her own deal breakers. For instance, infidelity may be grounds to end a marriage for one person, but not another. If you leaving on this trip is his deal breaker, how stable is the marriage? How much do you need to go along with what he wants for the marriage to be stable?

These are open ended questions. 


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 31, 2022, 09:00:54 AM
I responded with: Just know that I deeply love and care for you. Always (I was trying to be empathetic)
Him: That means nothing to me. You ruined that
Him (15 mins later): Anyways you’re one to f*cking talk, flying out to vacation instead of mending our marriage. Real classy lol
Him: Then trying to take a moral high ground like you’re some f*cking innocent Virgin Mary. F*ck that bullsh*t.

I believe that he is changing the story, because I did try to "mend the marriage" while he did nothing. Because it is a two way street. And I believe that he is retaliating and trying to get a response out of me by provoking me further, unfriending me, etc. I agree Notwendy that it is again another tantrum. I also spoke to a friend who is studying psychology and she also truly believes that this is a tantrum, nothing more. I will either stop responding all together, or tell him that I will not tolerate this behavior. There's nothing I can do until I come back on the 5th, so I will simply put my mind to rest now.

I certainly do not have the answers to all of your questions, but I definitely am and will continue to think about them. I also will prioritise what I can tolerate as well. What I did learn from his parents today is that this behavior has been going on since he was little. I could possibly stay with them, unsure if he would like that though. However, I will rest my mind until I get back. If he blames me forever then that is on him. I have done the best that I can.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: 60av8tor on May 31, 2022, 09:12:37 AM
I responded with: Just know that I deeply love and care for you. Always (I was trying to be empathetic)
Him: That means nothing to me. You ruined that
Him (15 mins later): Anyways you’re one to f*cking talk, flying out to vacation instead of mending our marriage. Real classy lol
Him: Then trying to take a moral high ground like you’re some f*cking innocent Virgin Mary. F*ck that bullsh*t.

This exchange has such a vibe that I used to get from my wife. WAY overreaction for what had/was actually taking place. I used to pray that I’d get mature, adult, understanding replies, but when she got in this state, it was just spin, spin, spin. Via text, or in person, the response was always the same in these states. I would deescalate (not always, mind you, sometimes my temper got in the way. I would just get so frustrated) and tell her to cool  off. She would for a few minutes, but like clockwork she’d come back :5-:10 later almost angrier - like she just couldn’t get it out of her system - what was in her head HAD to come out; like she just had to fight. Often the point of what we were fighting about was unknown in all the white noise - if not unknown, it was extremely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

I’m very new to this illness, but it is extremely difficult and damaging. I’m sorry you’re going through all this.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on May 31, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
It is a way overreaction. And what you're saying is exactly what is happening right now. I really thought he was done (because he never follows up on a first text).

I told him I would not tolerate his behavior and we can talk when he is calm. He then sent a raging long paragraph message, the points are: he's mad I'm calm, mad I said he can just come to where I am, a ton of other things he's mad about our relationship (which most are not true, and some we've talked through and thoroughly understand well), and that I can find someone else who can give me multiple orgasms (not even what I said).

I will honour what I said before and not respond to him. Or I may resend my "I will not tolerate this behavior from you, you can talk to me when you are calm." but idk. I want to so badly respond and argue but it's probably not a good idea. It's just so shocking that he thinks all of those things are true! He even said he doesn't remember the last time we held each other, which we literally were doing when he split. He doesn't remember the last time we hungout or laughed, and we just spent an entire long weekend together and also laugh all the time. I think he is deeply insecure and was triggered by what I originally said, and blaming alllll of this on me. So I feel okay now. None of this is my fault. Let me know if these updates are too frequent and too detailed, I do not want to burden you all.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Cat Familiar on May 31, 2022, 12:38:34 PM
I know it’s hard to not respond to the attacks, but think of modeling healthy adult behavior so he can see a more optimal way to react. It won’t change things, but at least you won’t be getting down in the mud to wrestle with him. If you can stay centered and not participate in the crazy, particularly when you return home, it will give him less incentive to try and bait you with unkind and untruthful remarks. What he needs to learn is self soothing behavior and by you staying out of the fray, as hard as it is, that will give him an opportunity to do so.

Best to say something like this:  “We’ll talk later when we are in a good place emotionally, rather than ‘when you calm down.’” That way, you aren’t pointing a finger at him and “blaming” him for being irrational.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on May 31, 2022, 06:01:48 PM
he's mad I'm calm, mad I said he can just come to where I am, a ton of other things he's mad about our relationship (which most are not true, and some we've talked through and thoroughly understand well), and that I can find someone else who can give me multiple orgasms (not even what I said).

I will honour what I said before and not respond to him. Or I may resend my "I will not tolerate this behavior from you, you can talk to me when you are calm." but idk. I want to so badly respond and argue but it's probably not a good idea. It's just so shocking that he thinks all of those things are true! He even said he doesn't remember the last time we held each other, which we literally were doing when he split. He doesn't remember the last time we hungout or laughed, and we just spent an entire long weekend together and also laugh all the time. I think he is deeply insecure and was triggered by what I originally said, and blaming alllll of this on me. So I feel okay now. None of this is my fault. Let me know if these updates are too frequent and too detailed, I do not want to burden you all.

Blue butterflies, we are absolutely here to share with and help each other and all free to leave or not read posts if we don’t want to! You are not burdening anyone. We have all been there, well I was a major poster last year and these good people really helped me through. I have so much respect for you heading off on that vacation alone so I’ve been checking in to see how you’re doing.

As for what you said above, I recognise these crazy things that come out of your husband’s mouth. My wife says such things, “We never have any fun. We don’t have anything in common. You don’t want me/love me/care about me. You never support me…” as well as telling me she has bad memories of days and events I remember her enjoying. These “all or never” statements are typical of bpd. I feel so much calmer now I understand.. I think she does mean and believe these things when she says them… but that doesn’t mean it’s what she thinks all the time. It’s also possible that our partners say such things because in the heat of that moment they chose the words especially to hurt us.

Not dwelling on it or giving it too much attention has given me so much power back. It seems to me like my constant apologising and worrying about how she could have a terrible day without me noticing etc… these habits of mine were actually making her behave in a more insane manner. I think apologising for things you aren’t fully or at all responsible for confirms to the pwbpd that you are a terrible bad person and it’s your fault etc. I know we are not supposed to justify, but I usually state my case once and then let it be, which seems to work just as well.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on June 02, 2022, 09:25:07 AM
Thank you Cat Familiar. I agree that I need to model healthy adult behavior. It sounds like he is upset that I am calm, because he needs someone to mirror his rage back at him. I am too tired and just don't want to talk to him anymore right now, so I have not responded to his last rage message and am just going to let be. I see that he is ~finally~ listening to music (specifically sad music) which is the first time he has listened to music since he split on April 22nd!

Thankful person, this means a lot to me. I have spent my evenings educating myself, reading this forum, and I feel so warm and supported from every single one of you. It is helpful that you have experienced something similar, I am learning so much! I do understand that my H have said some things that are true (it is true we could spend more quality time together), and I understand now that since he is in the "black" part of the split, he can only see the negatives of our relationship. But I am not taking these attacks personally. I have been trying to not dwell on it like you advised. Moreso, I am coming to terms that anything can happen in this relationship and I cannot control him.

To make myself feel better, I have devised a few examples of what may happen, and the subsequent plans in my head. From ideal to least ideal:

1) He gets out of the split by the time I come home, he apologises, we talk through everything. I am thinking about still living elsewhere for the time being, until I feel more safe living with him. Physically he has never hurt me, but I don't know if I can go back to things "feeling" normal. So I am thinking about telling him that I will live elsewhere until he has shown me that he is working on getting help, and is getting help (rephrased in a better manner of course). I'm not sure if this is a good idea yet, but I will gauge the situation. The personal goal is to show that this is my boundary, that I need to take care of myself first. We are still together, but I am hoping that this shows him how serious I am. However, I am worried that this sounds like an ultimatum, or that when he does work on himself, that my moving back in would be rewarding him.

2) Same as 1, but I stay and live with him. At first I thought this was ideal, but I feel like this is what we did in the past and it reinforced the cycle. He wouldn't get help like he said he would. We thus lived in bliss until another split.

3) He is still split and wants me to move out, I state my legal rights and stay in the living room. I give it some time in case he changes his mind or gets out of a split. This is better than me being homeless.

4) He is still split or not split, wants me outttttt, divorce, I go to a women's shelter, and I suppose over time I realise the relationship is over and I must go back to the US. :(

There may be some in between situations but I feel more at ease mentally prepping. Though I am still aware that anything can happen.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on June 02, 2022, 10:52:25 AM
I am worried that this sounds like an ultimatum,

I think you are wise to be concerned about this and I caution you about making your decisions contingent on him doing this. For someone to benefit from such help - they themselves have to be motivated. When you make something you do contingent on him doing this, it provided external motivation. He may do it so he can get what he wants. Once he gets it ( you move back in )- the external motivation is no longer there.

This kind of help isn't short term. It involves working with a therapist and steady work over time. Such a proposal would require you move out for a prolonged period of time.

You may try this, move back in in a few weeks, and he stops seeking help. You have achieved nothing.

He has been this way for a long time. For him to change would take some internal motivation and the ability to stick to a program long term.

Dealing with these kinds of relationships is accepting that the person is the way they are. We can work on our part of the dynamics to try to improve the relationship. We can not change them or make them change. The decision, on your part- to stay in this relationship or to realize it's not working out is based on you, not an expectation for him to get help and change- because that has to be decided by him, intrinsically.

International relationships have particular issues when the marriage is dysfunctional. I have seen some situations on the board where the partner is living in the country where the pwBPD is a citizen. This puts the non BPD partner at some disadvantage due to work permits, legal rights, and others. If the relationship is unstable, the non BPD partner can be in a compromised situation. There was one poster on this board who was financially dependent on the BPD partner and was kicked out of the home- no job, no work permit, no legal protection. I don't know what country you two are residing in, or if it is one where you have legal protection. This is something to consider for your own well being.




Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on June 03, 2022, 12:59:53 AM
Thank you so much Notwendy. I have some updates. I woke up to a message from him, after I did not respond to his last rage message. This is his new message:

"You wanna talk let’s talk. I was drunk and frustrated. I felt and feel powerless and unable to do anything. And especially when you’re being over there. So I panicked, I thought I was going to die I’ve never had a panic attack before. And frankly I don’t know what to think. You left me, yes I didn’t want to go with you for obvious reasons but you left, without me. And that hurt me and disappointed me a lot, adding to what pain and frustration you already caused me.  And yes I’m still f*cking angry. But this’ll be your chance to talk or I’m cutting you out of my life."

We called for about two hours. A lot of it was just quiet. I tried my best to SET but I did JADE sometimes. It was really difficult because he kept repeating things like "How do you expect me to forgive you after you took this away from me?" and "This is all of your fault!"

We did talk through a bit about the details of what happened. He did share that what I originally said about sex, triggered him. He acknowledged that maybe this is all of his fault, but he can't help but feel angry and to blame me. He acknowledged that he wouldn't talk to me for a month and refused to go on the plane, but it is still my fault. Thus we would go in circles again. He doesn't know if he can forgive me and how we can move on from this.

I never asked for forgiveness the entire time. Since I said legally he can't kick me out, he said he will just move out and I can go after 30 days. But he is not sure if he wants to be with me or not. I believe he wants me to apologise for the whole thing. After some time, he got angry again, and we ended the call.

He is now mainly upset that I left to go on the trip. I feel myself getting weak and regretting that decision, even though everyone I have spoken to said it was the right decision. He feels that I did not want to work on our relationship, yet at the same time he understands that he wouldn't talk. It felt like talking to someone who understood everything logically but refused to accept any responsibility. He is embarrassed he had to message all of his friends here that he's not coming, and that he will have to lie to his coworkers. I did not take responsibility for this or apologise for this.

I am not sure what to do next. He's circled back again to being angry, now messaging me saying that I left him and that I ruined our chances of fixing things. If I had stayed, we would have been able to fix things. I don't know what to do because I cannot and will not apologise, or even tell him how to forgive me (because there is nothing to forgive).


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on June 03, 2022, 04:39:32 AM
Notwendy, yes I agree. I believe I was hoping for a trick to solve everything for me but it makes sense that again he must choose to seek help and not be pressured by me or any agreement we made.

I fortunately have a remote job that I can work anywhere. Since he's agreed I can stay 30 days and he will move out, that is our terms for now. Until he gets out of this split. Which I'm honestly unsure will ever happen but he clearly is still very angry right now. So I am expected to go home to Europe on the 5th and he will not be there.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on June 03, 2022, 05:45:23 AM
I don't know all that went on before you left, but - there's a big difference between leaving a relationship and leaving for two weeks to go on a trip. He's the one who is adding the meaning to "you left me". Yes, you left because he didn't want to go but you didn't leave him.

No need to JADE that to him though, he knows the difference.

It seems you asserted yourself as a separate person though. To him, it was if he didn't want to go, then you should not want to go either. But the two of you are not the same person, even if married. The trip was also a planned trip- you didn't just run off and go away for two weeks- both of you had planned this. You didn't do anything wrong.

It's hard to know what will happen when you get back. He might be there, he may not. Or he may try to contact you over the next few weeks there. But his reaction- you went on a trip, the marriage is over- if he really went through with that, that's a  not a realistic idea of marriage- and would probably happen inevitably over any disagreement that didn't go his way. Although you have felt regret for going at times, I think if he reacted this way- he'd have done it eventually to another conflict.

The more common course of this kind of thing is that he will calm down and then want to go back to "normal". But on your part, you know this happened and so will need to decide how to respond to that.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on June 05, 2022, 04:46:26 PM
What happened before the trip was really just: I made that orgasm comment as we were cuddling, he split and went straight to bed, and wouldn't talk to me for a month. The days ranged from completely ignoring me or sometimes responding. But towards the middle to end, he was clearly angry at me—his eyes raging when I opened his closet door to get his passport. I'd text him some stuff throughout but he didn't open my messages. I'd tell him that I was going on the trip but no response. So I just left.

A few days ago, I got an "unsent" message from him, another short rage text, and a rental contract that I will leave on July 2nd.

I just got back home now. The apt is completely clean and tidy, and he is not here, though all of his stuff is. He did a few things for me that he knew I would like. He left a box of a gift that I gave him along with some notes and photos of me that he had kept. I don't know where he is, but I sent him an update text to let him know I got home.

There's not much I can do now but just try to keep my own spirits up, though it's quite difficult already. I agree that this is not an ideal and realistic idea of marriage. When I was on the plane, I was feeling much more anger towards the way he is treating me, but all of that dissipated when I got home. So now I will try to just take care of myself. Thank you all for the support.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: fisher101 on June 05, 2022, 11:10:13 PM
In my experience regardless of splitting or whatever stage they are in, you cannot trust them. They will ALWAYS betray you and it is simply a matter of time. They are like ticking time bombs that can go off at any moment. You won't even see it coming as they will smile in your face, as they throw you under the bus. You know that expression amongst good friends that's like "if you killed someone I would help you hide the body". Well in the case of your BPD friend/lover/spouse they would smile at you, offer to help, and throw you under the bus and be the star witness for the prosecution. Do not trust someone with BPD with anything. They will lie, cheat, steal, and set your house on fire if it suits them.

I hate to say it but I somewhat I agree with this. I would phrase it as you can't rely on them rather than trust them. Many of them have flawed moral compasses. And to me this moral evaluation is based on their floor not their ceiling. For this reason I don't really consider anyone with bpd a "good" person.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on June 21, 2022, 12:30:34 PM
Hi all, I have some updates to share. After I came back home from vacation, I stayed alone in the apt for a week, while my H went to stay with his family. After, he came back and was still split. June 17th he was ready to talk, and we talked and cried a lot.

He apologised for everything he said to me, he felt hurt and abandoned by what I said, and said it felt like a knife in his back. He clarified that he was more hurt by when I said "Have you ever googled how to make me orgasm?" rather than the sentence itself. We were cuddling and I was crying/venting and he felt like he's done so much to me to support me, so it felt like I was attacking him.

Over time he realised that we've both been lazy in our relationship for a while and didn't really realise or process this until this split (I agree, I thought about this a lot too). He felt like our love is unequal, and he puts more in (I agree in general but have thoughts). He still doesn't understand why I left on vacation, and said that he needed time to forgive me. I didn't move forward or agree with these statements, just tried to validate what I could. He said he's in the process of finding a psychiatrist and knows that he cannot continue living like this anymore.

The last few days have been quite good. We talked more about our feelings and I emphasised that I will not have kids until his mental health is stabilised, and he agreed. He believes that we needed to go through all of this in order for us to work harder on our relationship, and for him to get help. He's been a bit love bomby so I've been less reciprocative affection-wise, but still enjoying.

Yesterday, we spent some time talking but then I had to go back to work (we work opposite hours). I noticed within a few hours that his mood was down. He pushed me away for the evening even though I tried to communicate. Eventually he sent me a message opening up about how a few topics in our conversation and some of my behavior that day, made him feel rejected and that he felt silly for trying so hard because I wasn't reciprocating his affection.

Today we talked and he said that he didn't know why he was feeling moody until he sent me that message. I shared that I felt scared to reciprocate so immediately, so we agreed to move more slowly. I misinterpreted his saying he needs to time to trust me as = us going slow. He didn't want to go slow, he went back to being fast. And this misunderstanding disappointed him. Our conversation was more flat and he was withdrawn, but he is still hugging and talking to me. Is this common? In the past, he would usually let me know if he's moody or etc, but this feels different.

I just feel that it's common to have misunderstandings in our understanding of each other, and also it's okay for me to feel scared. It sounds like we had different expectations, but I cannot manage his disappointment. I also believe that we have different love languages and physical affection just isn't my highest, but I have been doing other things for us. But also, I feel that I should not be thinking about this on a normal brain, and I must think about this through BPD lenses. I'm not sure what to do, I guess I should let him be to sulk in his mood again? I'm assuming that he is still sensitive from the split, because usually he wouldn't react like this.

Would appreciate any insight, and please no negative/unhelpful comments.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: thankful person on June 21, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
Hey butterflies,

It sounds like things are working out a bit better than you feared and I’m glad about that. Especially that your husband accepts that he has a problem. I think you have learnt so much really quickly and the vacation helped you with that! You are doing so well.

Keep up the good work. We are here to help if you need any more advice. The theory is that people with bpd can make progress if they’re committed to recovery. In my wife’s case, she is one who doesn’t recognise that she has a problem at all. I mention this because a pwbpd working on self improvement can still at times not recognise that they have or are the problem. So just be wary.

It is, in my experience, a bit of a one-sided relationship. I recognise that my wife is emotionally disabled, she doesn’t recognise it despite having a bpd diagnosis and treatment in the past. For this reason, some of the care taking and even eggshell walking will always remain to some extent. By this I mean you do have to watch what you say and always validate but the good news is it has become almost second nature to me now.

I have improved things so much without my wife having to be committed or believe anything.



Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: Notwendy on June 22, 2022, 05:41:36 AM
This is my own observation ( not a professional one ) but I have found "victim perspective" to be common. (see the Karpman triangle for description of this) in addition to projection and denial.

PwBPD have difficulty managing their own feelings and as a result, tend to project them on to others. They also have a poor sense of self.  So if your H is feeling insecure and fears rejection- he can find "evidence" of you rejecting him in something you say or do, even if your didn't intend it.

You are correct in that you can not ( and should not ) manage his disappointment for him. If you manage his feelings for him, then he doesn't gain skills in managing his own feelings.

You also aren't responsible for his feelings of rejection. He may blame you, or believe that you are the source of them but that isn't the case. It's his own feelings that may be triggered by someone else- but that is his issue. If someone is triggered to feel something- that's an area they need to work on. It is good that your H realizes he needs to see someone for his mental health. It's important to see he follows up on that. A therapist can help him with managing his feelings.

At this point, if he needs to sulk, or do the silent treatment- that's on him. You can explain your position so he understands you are not sulking back. "Hi honey, I am here if you wish to talk" and then go about your own business.

It's good that you are able to express your need to go slowly. That is taking care of you. It's a bit crazy making to have unexpressed expectations you are expected to meet - such as a fast reconciliation. When this happens, gently point out that you can't read minds, it's important for him to tell you what he needs. It's also a bit crazy making to have someone misinterpret your actions or words, but it's part of the disorder.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: jrharvey on June 29, 2022, 03:18:34 PM
Hi Blue Butterflies.

I am sorry, I only read the first post but I can already see some things that are going "not so right". I havent read the other comments and for that I appologize but wanted to say something because I noticed no other male commented.

What you asked was pretty hurtful. Regardless of BPD or not that was an instant pain in his heart. As a man we sometimes feel like we have one job and thats to make our wife happy and to hear that we now need google to make you orgasm is really hard to accept. Its kinda like saying we are worthless in bed lol. I know that sounds nuts but its our first reaction. I completely understand you want to be satisfied as well. Nothing wrong with that. But its going to hurt him to think about how he hasnt been able to before. TRUST ME THAT SUCKS!

How did you react after you told him and he showed he was upset? If I had to guess he is feeling very upset and down, maybe even depressed. Personally I think the reaction would be to comfort him, show as much love as possible and maybe try to tell him how YOU WANT to be pleasured. Googling is a big mess of a place and most likely he will get answers that will not make you happy anyways. From personal experience I can tell you that every single woman is different in how they want or need pleasure from sex which also makes it madening for a man trying to do a good job. Its like we are supposed to just know.

Men are very different. We really want a clear cut manual on how to treat our specific woman and how to do certain things. If we have a manual to fix a honda we wouldnt use it to fix a chevy right?

Yes he overreacted of course but thats what BPD people do. I know it doesnt sound like a big deal but even a non BPD man would not be happy about that.

Im not sure what happened when you left but I am sure he did not want that. My guess would be that he was extremely down and wanted you to show love and nurturing. Remember, whether or not you meant it your basically telling him he is a failure at the most important job he has (according to him). Thats really rough. If you just kinda brushed it off as if its just having a BPD split it may have deeply hurt him to his core.

This may have been recoverable but I would guess that the fact you left him by himself after all that really left him feeling super hurt and abandoned.

Cant be 100% sure but maybe what you could have done is find out yourself what actions or things that give you an orgasm and maybe tell him in a way that wouldnt trigger him. Maybe say something like "Hey babe, would you want to do this" or "I would really love it if you did this for me". Asking us to google is a bit of an arrow to the heart.

If this post was innapropriate I really am sorry and it can be deleted. I just wanted to be helpful. If its not then I am sorry.

I think he wants you. He feels down and he needs you to be there for him and show him you love him and are there for him regardless of if he couldnt give you an orgasm in the past. He wants to know you love him no matter what. He is upset and splitting because he feels worthless and incapable of doing what a man does which is please his wife.

Really hope this helps. Sorry if it made things worse.


Title: Re: Husband broke up with me during a split (advise needed)
Post by: bluebutterflies on July 01, 2022, 12:59:02 PM
Thank you all so much. That talk we had about why he was feeling moody was last Tuesday. He had also requested no more touching and basically we're just roommates. We had another talk yesterday and basically: he said that what really triggered him was when I came over to sit next to him but I was still working, and I shooed him away when he was trying to show me something. I said I would listen and pay attention, but I forgot and went back to my computer. He felt dismissed, which triggered him. He acknowledged this was something small and shouldn't break the relationship, and that he feels like we had a great weekend, but he didn't have time to fully heal and is still sensitive. He also still believes this is my fault, that all of his hurt is my fault. So he now is asking for time to heal. He was quite rude at times and said some hurtful things in hurtful tones, which led me to crying a lot.

I still tried to SET and not JADE, but it was hard. I said that I wasn't perfect, that I'm trying and I was having a hard time balancing work + personal life. He understands all of this logically, but still felt hurt. So I will let him be to sulk again. He's not quite split though, he still responds to me and will (reluctantly) go on a walk with me.

So the timeline has been, starting from April 22 until today July 1
1 month of him not speaking to me (full split)
2 weeks of me being on vacation (he's raging, divorce + kicking me out threat, still split)
1 week back home alone (he's still split, went elsewhere)
2 week he came back home, got out of the split
1 weekend lovey dovey normal
2 weeks semi-split, he needs time to heal

I'm still trying to not take what he says/his tone personally. It's really hard. I've joined a video support group in the meantime as well. It's just really difficult because I find myself to be a very patient and tolerant and understanding person, and I am starting to wonder if I am tolerating too much. It's hard because in our 4.5 years of being together, he's been soo open minded, able to talk about anything, even criticism. So I'm giving myself a general/flexible date of the end of the year where I will check in with myself to see how the relationship is going. While he hasn't been outwardly abusive etc, living with someone who is barely speaking to you is not a relationship I want. So we will see how the next few months go, whether he is willing to truly seek help like the word he gave.

I'm just feeling stuck in these 2 months of intense BPD of him, and slowly starting to forget who he is why I love him. Not a great place to be in :( because we just got married and he's the love of my life!

I appreciate your response jrharvey. It is quite interesting as he has clarified that he wasnt triggered by what I said, but that the sentence (or critique) was at a bad timing. He felt like he was giving me everything by comforting me during my cry, so that my asking him that felt like a stab in the back. A lot of your questions are answered in my subsequence responses btw, but tl;dr: I apologised immediately but he shut me out for a month.