BPDFamily.com

 :help:

I am angry, sad and so full of resentment at the moment.
BPD ruined some really amazing family dynamics that I had.
I am struggling to humanize and sympathize with the struggles of my pwBPD, when her behavior has been so atrocious.
And it just seems like she deserves anything that is coming her way.

In summary,
3 years ago my very close cousin (great guy, a bit absent minded, but not a bad person) married Her. Spoiler alert: 4 weeks ago I found out she has diagnosed BPD.
Since she moved to the area, there has been a lot of awkwardness (at best), splitting, isolating, meltdowns, ...

I used to look forward to larger family gatherings at Thanksgiving, Christmas, weddings, Birthdays, etc. Now, I dread her presence in each family event.
- I am so tired of her games, manipulation, lies, attention seeking and drama.
- I hate that I no longer have contact with my cousin (unless pwBPD leaves town for some reason).
- And I hate how much she has changed my cousin and made him suffer.
- I hate how she is bringing out the worst in me

It all started nice enough.

First times I met the cousin's wife w/BPD, she was overly sweet. Like saccharine sweet. Sucking up to all the aunts, her MIL, etc. And...  I mean, fine. Meeting new family is stressful and scary. Some of us hoped she would eventually relax and drop the fake saccharine facade (even just for her sake - that "act" must have been exhausting to keep up).

I never played along with her either. Never reciprocated her overdone compliments, or consoled her in her self-deprecation spiel. Did an inner eye-roll, smiled, nodded, "oh, thats wonderful", "that's great", "oh no, hope it gets better", and tried to steer the conversation to something normal again. No hard feelings towards her at that point. I thought she was just still nervous to meet us all. 

The cracks started to appear.
With time less and less people were reciprocating her overdone attempts at seeking attention. More and more often people just nodded along until she finished, and we went on with our conversation. And that's when the cracks started to appear.

- in time we started seeing less and less of our cousin + his wife. Only in larger family gatherings and when his wife left town for her own family matters.
- the pwBPD couldn't keep up the act anymore. Not the whole time. She would get really moody and silent suddenly at times. Several people asked the cousin if there is anything wrong with his wife, but he wouldn't open up to anyone, really.
- pwBPD got really controlling.
1) The cousin was forbidden from drinking. None of us drink in excess, but we, the local cousins, often met up to do a beer or wine tasting. Their compromise was that he could taste alcohol, but he would have to spit out (weird). Meanwhile, on IG, pwBPD was having cocktails with her colleagues at bars. I don't assume she spat out those cocktails. 
2) The cousin could never spend too much time with any of us alone. He sometimes took a detour from his work to have a quick catch up. She would start texting him and ask him to come home immediately within 30 - 60 minutes.
3) pwBPD checks his phone, so later on, when we started to get worried for our cousin, we couldn't really contact him.
...
- pwBPD started picking on people and splitting. And she created this whole victim lore and narrative to other, usually older, relatives. That did not work in the long term.
...

The change in me.
At first, I did my best, to be nice, give pwBPD time to adjust, all that. I invited her to things, bought gifts for cousin and her at Christmas, birthdays, etc. Sent congratulations on social media. All that despite the fact that I found her annoying at times. But there's annoying aspects in most people, right?

But, admittedly, in later times, I might have reciprocated in some of the pwBPD's stupid games. Nothing anyone could prove as malicious, but... "forgetting" to text her about some family meeting place and time, pretended to be a "concerned relative" and mentioned some less-than-glamorous facts about her to her MIL... that sort of thing.

Yeah, I was petty, but I thought I was teaching her a valuable lesson that she will not "win". She can't. So she would just stop with the drama and games. Well, luckily I wasn't the entire reason for pwBPD's meltdown.

It looks like she has finally split with her husband. And a tsunami of resentment towards him and his family of last years washed over him in kinds of toxic ways (guilt-tripping, suicide threats, belittling, etc...).

Dilemma
I don't wish her unwell, of course, but I would prefer her to leave my life forever. I find it impossible for me to advocate to my cousin to try and salvage his relationship. And a part of me is tempted to try and steer this conflict in a way that I would prefer.

What I should do, I think, is leave my cousin and pwBPD alone, not trigger her in any way. Hope her therapy works and she gets better. And no petty tit-for-tat covert games with cousin's wife, of course.
But I know BPD is not fixed in a few weeks with therapy. Not the parts of BPD that have driven me insane for the last 3 years, at least.
And I just struggle to feel any sympathy for her. Her BPD coping mechanisms seem too deliberate and "chosen actions" to feel sympathy.

 And, honestly, if I didn't fear she could unsubscribe from life, but just divorce my cousin and leave, I would probably try to orchestrate some "concerned relative" shenanigans. Even just to rescue my cousin from her toxic grasp. I know, that is not what I should do.

So, I guess instead I, my relatives and my cousin will just suffer for next many years, fearing she turns up and blows up in some family gathering. And I will probably hear more rumors of abuse and toxicity about the pwBPD and my cousin. I hate BPD. SO MUCH.

OnceUponaHell,

I hear you loud and clear, and feel your pain.  It's clear you have a strong caring bond for your cousin, and in this situation perhaps feel helpless because there are no good options.  You desperately want to help your cousin, perhaps help him see the "light" and maybe even escape this hell.

My questions are: what is he thinking and feeling about his relationship with her?  With his family?  Does he even see the changes you see (i.e. he used to have amazing family dynamics at gatherings vs how she is isolating him from his family now and causing drama?)

What are his thoughts?

Has he educated himself on BPD?  Does he have "tools" to manage her behavior at home?  Does she go to counselling by herself, or do they go to couples counselling?  Are there children in this relationship?

Can you tell us a bit more about what you mean?  It sounds like she is attacking and blaming the family, and trying to put a big wedge between him and his family.  Inotherwords, isolating him from his family.  Is this about right?

Have you had a chance to meet with your cousin in private?  Say meeting for lunch if you coordinate the same lunch break?  Share what you believe you are seeing, and check in to see if he sees the same things?  Maybe is OK with his life as it is, because he is in love with her.  If he is OK with it, there is nothing more you can do, except to let him know you care about him and will always be there if he ever needs you.

If he sees it more the way you see it, then just let him talk.  Listen.  I mean really listen, so that he knows he can trust you with anything.  If he senses you are judging her or him, it may push him away from you.  

Who knows what has really gone on between them.  There's probably lots you know about, and more you don't.  

You sound incredibly frustrated, and saddened at what is happening to your cousin.  I think a  thing to do is set up a "fun meet-up", and let him know the lines of communication are always open, and he can have fun with you, and trust you.  Until that is well-established, I would hold back on your thoughts about her to the degree that you can - or at least keep the emotion out of your voice and stick to the facts.  Avoid the rant, or he may not meet up with you again, because he feels compelled (for reasons you may not know) to stick up or defend her.

This isn't about you.  Whatever caused the BPD illness is pretty  :cursing: complex, and so when she has a meltdown at any family member, she's just projecting her own toxic feelings onto someone else.  It feels personal at the time, because it's so irrational, emotional, toxic and hateful.  But all that verbal vomit isn't about you (or any other family member).

BTW, I happen to believe that if you try to beat a BPD at their own game, they will always win.  We have to use a different set of tools than they use, to have any degree of "win".  

At the moment - complicated. Theres a lot of "fog of war" at the moment between cousin + pwBPD and the family. The one recent time I confronted him alone and asked how is he really doing and what is wrong with his wife, he looked kinda down and told me about their disagreements, blow ups and BPD. And that she isn't working at the moment.

 
Strained, but looking back, the few times I saw him alone in the last year, he seemed a lot happier than when I saw them together. His effort to meet me alone a day or 2 after his wife left town to me indicates that he Wants to have a relationship with his family.

He sees the changes in her. Not sure about himself.

I honestly don't know. And at least in the last 3 years - if he had any tools, they weren't deployed very successfully. The relationship has only deteriorated.

Great guy, but I think his absent-mindedness can be annoying to the most zen person at times. I dread to think how a BPD person could survive him long-term. 
He has forgotten their anniversary, didn't participate in their wedding planning (yeah, whatever'd anything and everything she asked about), never suggests or organizes bigger things like honeymoons, vacations, big surprise parties. He really is a guy that you have to tell what to do, when and how. And he does it.

 
Alone. And from what I heard - she is not at a point to admit her wrongs.

THANK GOD no, but since another cousin's wife got pregnant, pwBPD has been considering...



So, until recently, she has always publicly praised her husband.
But over years her compliments have got a bit weird. Like, in the most recent meeting, after a few drinks (oh, yeah, at larger gatherings he can drink again, btw), pwBPD told how watching "Love after lockup" makes her so grateful for the wonderful relationship she has with my cousin in that usual saccharine tone.

Instead of "aww" my first thought was "how bad is your relationship that Love after Lockup" makes you feel grateful for what you have. That was such a weird comment, partly inspiring me to corner my cousin one time and asking him about his life and relationship. I also heard some comments from an aunt that his wife stopped working and isn't doing well.

And that's when he told me about her terrible mental state, diagnosis, and all the resentment she has been holding on (for years) that recently blew in his face. They have had fights before, but recently it has been frequent and unending spiral downward with all his past faults that he knew and didn't know about being thrown at him. Like, my cousin insisting on "siding with his family instead of her", insisting on meeting me and others she doesn't like (finally got the direct confirmation she doesn't like me, huh), my cousin not being more present in their relationship, like not planning the wedding and other things (I mean, I get her frustration but he has always been like that), etc.etc.etc.

I haven't seen my cousin since. Tbh, I was a bit too shocked about the diagnosis and what had happened to him to say anything productive. And, I knew nothing much about BPD at the time.

She is his first "serious relationship", and if he somehow decided to break it off, he would be the first person in recorded family history to divorce. As far as I know, no one in my family have ever divorced. Problems happen between couples, but they get resolved or eventually death does them apart whilst living separate lives. But no one has ever divorced.

So that adds a lot of extra pressure on him to stay, even if he is super unhappy. And I'm not sure if he is aware of how unhappy he truly is. Like, I have had a bad relationship where I didn't know how miserable I was until few months after I had broken it off.

And yeah, I know that there is nothing I can do if he doesn't want to break free. Hence I said "I want her out of MY life". My family's life. All the people she has picked on and lied to.

Totally. I mean, I knew it wasn't sunshine and rainbows, but I was shocked at even the tip of the iceberg (probably) that he did share with me.

Trust me, I hate that she brings out the worst in me. I could say "I only did it for her to learn her place and stop" or "She was picking on me or another cousin's wife, and this was just defense", or ...

But deep down, it was definitely tit-for-tat pettiness. It felt good at the time to get back at her. To subtly show her that "she isn't very good at these games so she can stop any time". To see her taste her own medicine (like, "how did it feel being isolated and forgotten... abandoned").

But tbh, since I found out about her diagnosis... whilst I don't feel bad for what I did, I definitely will try my best not to retaliate in the future. I was so scared that she could have in her delusion and rage got hospitalized or cancelled her life subscription to spite me or "win" once and for all.

I understand your feeling about her brining out the worst in you. I think that - for you- is the most destructive aspect of this kind of relationship. Our boundaries reflect our values and when we act against our own values, we feel badly about ourselves. Don't let this person take this away from you. Take your integrity back. It's your treasure.

There's a difference between taking the high road and being a sucker to their manipulations. That is you keeping your boundaries and an emotional distance from her. We don't lock our doors of the house to keep good people out. We lock them to keep out people who might harm us or steal. We can open the door to let the people we want in, while locking others out.

As tempting as it is, getting into the dirty games with someone with BPD is a losing battle. They will win because they will suspend morality to defend themselves. Please read about the Karpman triangle. When you get into this with them, you become the persecutor. They are in victim mode and perceive themselves as being attacked. People suspend their usual boundaries in such circumstances. We would not ordinarily harm someone else, but if we felt attacked, we'd harm someone in self defense. While I am describing this in physical terms - the triangle is played out in emotional terms.

As much as you feel badly for your sweet cousin, trying to "rescue" him is also on the triangle. His BPD wife will go into victim mode and he will bond with her as rescuer against you. This situation was similar for me with my father and BPD mother. If I tried to "defend" him, it would result in them both being angry at me.

It's your cousin who got himself into this situation and it will be up to him to decide what to do about it. In my own situation, I found that the bond between my father and BPD mother became stronger than any other one and if it meant a change in his relationship with other family members, this came first. It's sad to realize that this kind of thing splits families, but from what I have seen, I believe it does change them.

They say resentment is like letting someone live rent free in your thoughts and feelings. Time to evict this cousin's wife from your happiness. I understand the grief of this change in your previously close relationship. He married her though, and you didn't. Please take care of yourself- your happiness, your values.

I was very frustrated when I wrote it. And scared I guess. Like, I am angry that she makes my cousin miserable, but I know he is an adult and will need to make his own decisions about this.

But lately, me establishing my boundaries has involved excluding her... and my cousin. I don't make any effort to reach out to them about anything anymore (except that one time I cornered cousin about his relationship).

"I didn't include you, because I simply don't like spending time with you" was my boundary. And then I find out she has BPD, a condition that is deathly afraid of "abandonment".
So, these days my happiness and mental peace is as odds with her mental illnesses deepest fear.

Like, at Xmas the cousins (4 of us) wanted to get together, to drink and to be merry. We make a group chat of cousins. Spouses are invited, but not a part of the group chat. I organized the event, knowing that weekend my cousin was out of town (so hopefully pwBPD wouldn't find out and turn up alone either). I also buy gifts for everyone except my cousin and pwBPD.
On the day, I turn up at the location, and 1 of the other cousins says "oh, earlier today I texted pwBPD if she wants to join us. Since she is alone over Xmas and all...".
My heart sank. "Unfortunately she is too busy and can't make it".. she finishes.
The RELIEF I felt.

And even now - I don't care how she felt that no one reached out to her until the day of the meeting, as an afterthought. I don't know if the cousin that texted pwBPD was just clearing her own conscience and invited her last minute, also hoping she would be too busy or not even see the message.
There was a time where I would have made sure I have reached out and included everyone.
Now... her husband is on the chat, and so are 2 other cousins. If someone wants to tell her and invite her - they can. I'm not making any effort.

Is it just me or there is a certain tragedy with pwBPD.

Their biggest fear is that people don't like them and will abandon them. But with their distorted coping mechanisms to avoid that, those fears become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Exactly.  This is exactly what happens.  It's a horrible disease.  Your cousin needs awareness.  If she gets pregnant, it will make it more complicated because hormone changes are a natural part of pregnancy, and once the child arrives, it could be a matter of time until that child is used as leverage.

Your cousin needs to figure this out.  All you can let him do is know that you are available if he ever wants a listening ear or support.  Rinse and repeat.

It's not just you. It is sadly common.

And therein lies problem...

I know that it's easy to blame the wife for this situation, however, chances are quite high that one of your cousin's parents or caregivers is a "high-need" individual and this set him up for codependency.

When my cousin got married, I did think "I feel a bit bad for his wife".

And, if I just knew that she is not getting along with my cousin - FINE. I see why. Nice guy, but living 24/7 could be difficult with someone who forgets your anniversary, rarely suggests anything or even rare helps you organize things like your own wedding, unless you ask him to very specifically.

Like, I wish she had figured that out before marrying him, but hey ho - off you go. I would be able to move on easily.

My venting post was purely selfishly motivated. I mostly resent her because of how Her actions have impacted My life (and people close to me, which, in turn, again, impacts me). I hate that she lied to my aunts and mom, hate that she tried to isolate and bully people that never did any harm to her, hate that she wasted to much of everyone's energy with her imagined victim lore, etc. etc. etc.

Deep down, I think I should be more empathetic to pwBPD's struggles and feelings. Like, I wouldn't say "I want her gone from my life" if my other cousin's wife had a bad time with depression. But with BPD - I don't know where the disorder ends and the asshole starts. I don't feel a distinct border between "Oh, this is not the REAL her. I hope she gets better soon". It seems like I've only known a fake manipulative facade and a sad raging and/or irrational asshole.

But with BPD - I don't know where the disorder ends and the asshole starts. I don't feel a distinct border

I don't think there is one. They may have their reasons, specific to the disorder,  but they are accountable for their behavior. It's not as if they aren't aware of reality like someone with a psychosis. They don't have a low IQ and so aren't mentally unable to make decisions.

Even a kindergartener knows that if you don't play nice, the other kids won't want to play with you.

Glad you felt safe to vent and let it out here. We can all relate. And we've all retaliated, been selfish and done petty things. Love to hear that you had such great times with your cousin and family and it's so, so sad that those times are now disrupted. BPD has wreaked havoc in all of our families and there's so much loss.


I've struggled with not feeling much empathy. Many people have explained how difficult it is to have BPD, that it's like walking around without skin. I get it, and it's helped to learn about it. It's also been hard for me to get over the damage she's done. I also get frustrated with other people, at the way they tiptoe around her and give in so as not to upset her.

In my experience, empathy hasn't been the most helpful tool when it comes to BPD. I've had far more success working towards radical acceptance (grief being a part of that) and setting boundaries.

I struggle with this. Like, I, as an adult, would tolerate a 3 year old throwing a fit or being needy, clingy. Or lacking empathy. Or lying. Like, I wouldn't retaliate or want "that 3-year-old out of my life".
But, cousin's wife being 30-year-old shaped REALLY switches off all the empathy switches for childish immature behaviors in my head .

I struggle with empathy in a way that... I really cannot empathize with her enough to even tolerate her presence.

- If I know she is out of town this weekend - that is the weekend I will meet with my cousins or suggest a family lunch or something (and pray no one switches weekends so pwBPD can come too)
- If I know she is not leaving at Xmas, I will meet my relatives 1 on 1 before Xmas, have fun, exchange gifts, and maybe plan a road trip around Xmas.
- If I do stay around for family gatherings, I will communicate with everyone but her about organizing (who brings what, who needs a car ride, etc.).

Like, at this point, it is not even tit-for-tat or pettiness. I just don't want to talk to her or see her. Much less get a gift for her.

Well.. good news : you don't have to.

I imagine your family was very close prior to her dating your cousin? Like your cousin feels more like a brother to you, maybe than a cousin?

In both cases... If you don't like her, you simply do not have to include her, and you do not have to feel guilty about it either. Is someone guiltripping you about your decision to exclude her from events you organize?

I don't buy into the whole : "they suffer more than we do" idea about BPD, and the arguments to convince me otherwise are seriously lacking.

Have you heard about HSP? Same  principle... I once hurt so much that I actually sweat blood, complete hysteria, I had to shut my body down and disconnect from it to get out, that's just how in pain I was. Complete emotional dysregulation, born from my trauma, how I was raised by a BPD mother. When I was twenty, I was a mess, and I did hurt people I cared about, but NEVER to the extent my BPD mother has, and I stopped, because of empathy. Because I cared for the well being of those I loved and DESPITE the hurt, despite the storms I have inside, I learned to take control. I don't hurt less, I can just control my reaction to the pain better. And I stop myself from discharging it on others and found some other strategies to deal with it.

BPD don't hurt more than HSP, and for all I know, HSP don't hurt more than "regular" (what is regular...)  people either, simply because we cannot know how someone else actually feels.  Sure they study neurons pathways and all, but it is still very qualitative work to relate it to our conscious feel of it.

Those that are said to "suffer less" might just be more in control of their emotions, but in no way does this mean that they are less in pain.

BPD act out, that's all I know, that's what I can see, that's what data tells me. But how, tell me, can we ever be certain they actually hurt more when we can only truly feel ourselves? They dissociate from reality, they have a victim-like mindset, they split, they don't master reality (like livednlearned pointed out, a fact I found very helpful), they evolve in an emotional world and they have no self. But do they actually hurt more than us? I doubt it. I really doubt it.

I think someone somewhere was able to weaponized our empathy against us by victimizing BPD sufferers, and in a twisting way, excusing their abuse, which does not help them, nor us, at all in the end.

There is no excuse for abuse. And I am tired of walking on egg shells. Is it the responsibility of pwBPD to manage their illness, and pitying them will not help them.

So don't feel guilty, and take care of yourself. Don't do things you don't feel like doing, you will only end up resenting yourself. You do not have to like everyone, just like everyone do not have to like you. So be kind to yourself, and let yourself feel whatever you feel. A simple sentence Notwendy said to me, full of wisdom...

Kinda. Our moms were really close growing up. And we spent a Lot of time together.

Generally, we would invite all members with similar familial proximity (all cousins and/or all-aunts, grand-aunts, etc.), despite some temporary misunderstandings or any drama. Excluding one person or cousin + wife is a bit unorthodox.



I really have no clue if the problem with BPD (cousin's wife specifically) is that she is like a petulant child at age 30, and her terrible behavior is just hard-coded within her personality. Or is she that haunted and hurt 24/7 that her actions are like delirious nightmares that she has no control over.

There is little ways to know how much effort she has put in trying to create and maintain a healthy framework for herself to live by and peacefully coexist with fellow humans.

And therein lies another MAJOR problem. pwBPD get away with their behavior for one reason, and one reason only. Because the enablers ensure that they do not experience natural, negative consequences. And since pwBPD either come from highly codependent family systems, or marry into one, and since pleasing and appeasing toxic family members (euphemistically referred to as “compassion” by the enablers) is the name of the game in such families, the pwBPD has exactly zero incentive to moderate their egregious behavior — something they are quite capable of doing when they choose to.

But it’s not compassion; it’s enabling, which is the opposite of compassion. The pwBPD is in an irrational state of mind at least 90% of the time. What excuse do the enablers have? Some experts have attempted to have codependency added to the DSM as a mental disorder — and I can understand why. Apparently codependency is even harder to recover from than alcoholism. At least the alcoholic has a harder time denying that he has a problem, but the codependent enablers think they are more compassionate than God Himself, all the while causing incalculable harm. It’s really quite scandalous.

I suppose we have no choice but to forgive them, for they are in such deep denial that they truly “know not what they do.”

 Apparently codependency is even harder to recover from than alcoholism. At least the alcoholic has a harder time denying that he has a problem, but the codependent enablers think they are more compassionate than God Himself, all the while causing incalculable harm. It’s really quite scandalous.

The comparison to alcohol addiction is a good way to visualize co-dependency because it is hard to recognize. For me, personally, it wasn't that I thought I was the most compassionate person but that, in my family, it was the "normal". I could see that something was going on with BPD mother, even if I didn't know what it was, and that it wasn't the way someone should behave. My father on the other hand, was reasonable and productive- he was my "normal" and in many way, a really good example of how people should behave. He was also co-dependent and an enabler of my mother.

It was a counselor who suggested the 12 step program CODA but the group also included people with addictions. That to me seemed out of the blue- alcohol was not an issue for me and I always assumed that the AA program was only for that or drug addiction. Sitting in a group that included people with alcohol and drug addiction was puzzling- like what am I doing here? But as the details of addiction were delved into, I could see the connection.

All addictions (and there are many) are forms of escaping or managing difficult feelings. I think co-dependency is less of an attempt to be  best at compassion driven than fear driven masked as compassion so the person can think they are being the noble one when they are really being self serving. That may not make sense at first, as it appears they are self sacrificing, but actually they are enabling out of fear- fear of the other person's reaction, fear of losing the relationship, fear of saying no, and fear of appearing as the "bad one" for saying no. They say "yes" when they actually mean no, so in addition, it's dishonest. They resent the person they are enabling and then feel like a victim. They may act as rescuers on the Karpman triangle, but feel like victims while doing so. They are actually trying to control their partners feelings with enabling, out of fear.

These patterns can be intergenerational in families because in these structures, this is the way people learn to behave. I had no idea- until it caused issues later in my own relationships. By contrast, alcohol addiction is more obvious even if the person who has the addiction is in denial. You see the bottles, the money spent, the person drunk. There's no such evidence with co-dependency.

The good news is that, since this is learned behavior, it can be unlearned, with some work at it. New behaviors can be learned.

I know this was probably a general BPD-issue reply, but not sure if I can define my family having large-scale "codependency" issues.

It is just that in large families everyone has a very limited exposure to each person. And it gets really messed up when my cousin's wife w/ BPD in that limited time can charm some people and be cold, rude, lying, conniving, etc. to others. You only see the cracks in her character if
1) you spend long enough time with her (that facade is hard to maintain, I guess)
2) she has split with you (and also, I guess, deemed you not important enough in the hierarchy)

So, obviously, she still gets invited to bigger events, and ... if I don't invite her to something, people can ask "Why", and... I don't want to rock the boat. Especially, talk bad about a person that the asker has been very impressed by (looking at you, grand-aunts).

And I don't want blame shifted on me like "OnceUponAHell, (pwBPD)'s mom is sick at the moment. That is probably why she has been so down lately. You should treat her really well, maybe take her and cousin out for dinner, definitely don't EXCLUDE HER. We should SUPPORT HER."

Instead of "mom is sick" it has been "cat is sick", "stressed about the move", "stressed at work", etc. etc. etc. There are just people in the family that are either oblivious to her "darker side" or very much enjoying her saccharine compliments and extremely humble demeanor.

And, tbh, I wouldn't mind if she was just super fake nice to me all the time. But I guess she knows that I know that it's BS since I never complimented how nice, polite, sweet etc. she was, and she dropped the act when it was just me around her pretty quickly.

Not everyone in a family has to be disordered. All families probably have their quirks but if you look closely, one can see patterns if they are there.

I don't see a lot of this in my father's family. I think his enabling probably evolved over time. BPD mother can hold it together. She's charming and beautiful in her time. In younger pictures of my parents, she's stunning and Dad was smitten. I truly think he didn't see her behaviors until after they were married and did what he could to help her. There just wasn't much known when they were married.

In her family though BPD mother is her lovely charming self with them. They believe I am the one who is responsible for any issues. They don't see me often as they live closer to her. They mostly know me through her narrative.

With your cousin though, he may also have just been  naive to his wife's behaviors at first.

I feel this way about my stepdaughter who has BPD.

I grew up with a sibling w/ BPD, married then divorced a man w/BPD. Fell in love with my current husband (his ex wife has BPD), only to discover that SD25 BPD.

Maybe we can't win the battles, but I definitely won the war.  *)

SD25 is neutralized, although each time I see her, there seems to be something newly manipulative that I have to figure out. My husband and I planned a trip near where we used to live to celebrate a wedding and see friends. Then he insisted we rent a house so his three kids could stay for 3 of the 10 days. I counted the hours I would be with SD25 minus sleep and began strategizing the ways in which I could limit exposure. I wish I could be more empathetic, and I do think I perform empathy well given how I feel about her, but if I am to be honest, it is repulsion I feel. Someone on this board once asked me if I liked her and I felt so guilty that I didn't, and couldn't give an honest answer. I am now able to say to H that we don't all need to like each other, we just need to make it work. And I tend to be the person who makes it work.

Having been in a BPD marriage, I can say this: Your cousin is very likely a husk of his former self.

His wife may be threatening suicide and engaging in self-harm (that can sometimes lead to accidental suicide). It's a pretty terrifying position to be in. You can see, even with your cousin's wife being a relative newcomer, how her behaviors make you feel bad about your own natural reactions. Times that by a million bazillion and that's what marriage to a pwBPD feels like.

What he probably needs most from you is support. I was so deeply ashamed and paralyzed by what was happening in my marriage that I told no one. Until it got to be too much. The people who were genuinely helpful didn't judge me, didn't offer advice, didn't tell me to leave. They listened. One friend said, "Just so you know, I don't judge you for this. I don't judge you for staying. I know it's hard. And if you say you're going to leave and don't, I won't judge that either. I'm here to listen -- I know there are no easy answers."

I got so much strength from that conversation. Whereas friends who lectured me or made me fear for my situation, I had to cut contact. It was too much to bear because it made me feel the way my marriage made me feel: weak.

If you do offer advice, keep it to a minimum. Like if he confides to you about suicidal ideation, make sure he knows the suicide hotline is for him, too. There is also a peer support group called NEA-BPD Family Connections. It's volunteer driven so it can be hit-or-miss whether you can find groups in your area but maybe the pandemic has driven more of that online.

About empathy.

I'm a naturally empathetic person and a natural listener. Validating how people feel comes easily to me -- some of the books and sites out there encourage these qualities and I sort of took that advice too far with SD25 and ended up making things worse. I do think those skills worked great with my husband and others impacted by SD25 behaviors. With her, though, I had to figure out ways to be effective, and that took some experimenting. Including planning our times together very carefully.

I'm in the process of getting closer to her brother, SS23. I know this will kick her BPD behaviors into high gear when we next see each other, so I made advance plans with him to go to a restaurant he's excited about, one where it's hard to get a table.

When it comes to SD25, I literally calculate the hours we will be together and begin thinking how to manage those hours so that our 1:1 time is managed. When we are together, I will be all in. When enough is enough, I will carve out time alone with SS23, and arrange time to see friends for coffee. H wanted to have a meal at the airbnb and if we do that, I know it will end up being H and my stepson (who loves to cook) in the kitchen. Too much potential time in a 1:1 with SD25. I'm suggesting we go to a restaurant, and if we do end up having a meal at the house, I will arrange a call with a friend, or call my own family. I know it sounds extreme, but this is the outcome of "making it work." There is virtually no conflict about SD25 in my marriage (which I perceive as one of her goals) because I manage that relationship in a way that neutralizes BPD behaviors.

Friends of ours were thinking of having a cook-out and H said that the kids could come. I do have to swallow my repulsion in these scenarios, but then I focus on what works for me to make these events tolerable. I figure out ways to make sure I am not monopolized by SD25, something she does with me at family events, or that H doesn't successfully rope me into helping him when she inevitably has a made-up crisis. Like your cousin's wife, SD25 is not easy to tolerate in social situations. It's usually a matter of time before her extreme neediness becomes awkward. Feeling left out, she will manufacture a crisis.  

Other strategies I use have to do with boundaries. If H and I make plans and she manages to insert herself, I change plans. I have had to develop boundaries with H because his boundaries with SD25, while getting better, were as wide and open as meteors. One of my boundaries is that I will change plans if H does not discuss with me first any late-stage invites to SD25.

I can see how you have a delicate situation with the get-togethers, and it's ok to orchestrate those gatherings to minimize chances she will be there. It's also ok to prioritize your own feelings and focus on what works for you. If that changes after successful experiences managing (or neutralizing) your cousin's wife and you feel curious about other ways to skillfully manage that relationship, there are plenty of things you can try.

The first goal is to take care of yourself. It takes tremendous strength to not be emotionally injured by BPD behaviors. There is a BPD expert named Bill Eddy who says, BPD relationships are not just difficult, they are the most difficult. The key is to minimize the damage while continuing to be the good person you are.

These are all examples of enabling. And don’t forget, your cousin is also unwittingly enabling her. The fact that she has allies in your extended family is going to make it much more difficult for your cousin to ever leave.

It might be an interesting project for you to start investigating your family tree and try to figure out how this pattern may have originated. After I started on this path my father finally ‘fessed up that my maternal grandfather had had a drinking problem, and shortly thereafter my mother came out of denial about it.

Being at the top of the hierarchy in your family makes it possible for you get away with having boundaries. Those lower in rank than the enablers makes it much more challenging.

Cousin is never leaving her. Culture and 0 divorce precedent in the family are big enough pressures for him, I think. But yes, she has family allies that adore her doe-eyed  charades, and shower her with all that attention she so badly craves.

Me messing with ally-ship and "innocently" dropping some badly needed truth in conversation with my older aunts (especially her MIL), devastated the cousin's wife. Melt-down, self-harm. Not to me, though. My cousin took all the damage. I guess I am important enough in the hierarchy not to blow up in my face directly, especially since I tattled her much more covert terrible behaviors to my aunts.

If stepmother is top of the hierarchy, I wish someone had told me  lol

I felt terribly victimized initially as the newcomer to the family, and because her focus was loyalty tests with her dad, I had a lot of scrambling to do.

Having boundaries is also tough when there is a third person involved who doesn't have them.

Yep, and these are all examples of Karpman drama triangle dynamics, with you unwittingly (and understandably) playing the role of Persecutor, which from the sound of it, you are already aware of.

Any stepmother/stepfather of mine (I've had quite a few...) who assumed there was a family hierarchy and that they sat at the top of it were bad news for me...

A stepmother is not at the top of the hierarchy, and shouldn't be... if only for the sake of the children (talking about young children here). I've had stepmothers who entered the family thinking they owned the place, they wreaked havoc between my father and I, pushed me to the sides, and he let them. I hated those ones.

Some I liked because they took the time to know me, to enter the family system, they weren't controlling, they were coming in from a place of curiosity and respect. They were a newcomer ! And it is ok, because I wanted to return the kindness when they acted this way...

It was hard to see women after women come into my house, especially when they did not care to learn to know me, and would tell my father how to deal with me.

Those that acted like newcomers, over time, they would become part of the family... one of them became a close friend and in all that matters, the grandmother of my children. She never put herself between my father and I, even during fights. And I developped a relationship of my own with her that I cherish.

So good for you for not feeling you are at the top of the hierarchy! There shouldn't be a hierarchy anyway, especially not with adult children...

Also I am sorry you ended up with a BPD stepdaughter... Because I've had to deal with one BPD stepmother that I recall, I can imagine what it was like. It's not quite like a BPD mother, the fog is not as great, but the repulsion is real... First time I met her at 15yo, I remember having shivers and telling my father : "you are not seriously bringing her into our house?" Everyone thought I was the one with the problem... Until she ended up on the top of his car, pulling the wipers and screaming at him while he was trying to get to work ! lol not funny but funny... I never told him :" I told you so", but damn did I want to !  

So there is something called hierarchy of power within families. There is even a type of family therapy called Structural Family Therapy in which one of the goals of therapy is to shift the hierarchical structure within a family, which this article explains: https://medcircle.com/articles/structural-family-therapy/

Yes, I don't doubt power structures exist, but I'm not sure stepparents sit at the top. I think your parents are separated too? Did you have stepparents? What were your experiences with that?

In my case, if the stepparent had any pull, it had to remain covert for us to grow fond of them, and our actual biological parent HAD to be the one in charge of us.

Because I am a girl, my main challenge were stepmothers, while my brothers had more issues with stepfathers.
For me, if a stepmother tried to pull too much power too fast over me, I would revolt against her because (1) I had a mother (and a dysfunctional one, so that made it worst) and (2) my father was the one in charge of me, not her, she was a stranger.

The stepmothers that made it to my heart treated me at an equal level, as friends, not like parent. My father had to be the one holding the power... albeit one of the main issues in my family is that NO ONE seemed to actually parent. So in my case: I had no sense of hierarchy within my own family system growing up, I parented myself while both my parents ran free. They weren't listening to me either, I didn't have power over time either... It was just: individuals cohabiting.

Actually, when I became a mother, it's as if my mother started to see ME as the one in charge... She started speaking to me like I was her mother... It felt so weird... and seeing how my brother also talks to me, asking me to validate his decisions, asking me for advice, when I am much younger than he is... I wonder if the power didn't shift toward me when I obtained my degree and became a mother... This is when I left the family system. The dysfunction and stress of it became too much. And I did feel like I was abandoning a child. So weird.

OMG, thank you for this gift.  One day, my mother (mid 80’s) standing small in the middle of her bedroom adopted her inner child’s voice and actually asked “will you be my mommy?”  I responded with humour.

Speaking of hierarchy, Karpman's triangles and dealing with pwBPD, any suggestions how to gauge when to enforce boundaries / justice / ..., and when not?

Like, pwBPD is being manipulative or saying half-truths about me or someone else to an older relative (for comfort, validation, I don't even know why).

It is well within my power to clip her wings early and set the record straight... or let it slide... for now.
- Setting the record straight might light her fuse and lead to a meltdown, self-harm, etc.
- Letting it slide might embolden her to think she has more influence than she does and/or make more people more miserable.

And sometimes it is hard to gauge - do I want to put her in her place to protect myself/someone, or is it because of some feeling of needing "justice", or ...  is it tit-for-tat childish pettiness?

It depends... Is the person she is confiding in interested in your version of the truth? Did she ask? How did you learn she was lying to her about you?

My thoughts are: people will do that they want to do, and will believe what they want to believe. Setting the record straight with someone who isn't interested in the truth could put you in the persecutor spot, her as victim... that is if the person she is talking to has rescuing tendency...

How much energy do you want to spend going against them, and how much energy to you want to spend on the people you love and can actually trust?

So it doesn't actually matter what your motives are. When there are drama triangle dynamics at play, any attempt to defend yourself, or set the record straight will result in your being seen as a persecutor, and as impossible as this may sound, you may find that it is YOU who are being excluded from family gatherings.

You will probably be expected to turn the other cheek, take one for the team and to be the bigger person in order to preserve family harmony, which is one of the major downsides of belonging to a family. If your family isn't toxic and you aren't the scapegoat, then this is probably going to be your best strategy.

My step-mother was basically like a completely separate entity. When my dad was together with us she was rarely around, and to this day she has no influence. She is not allowed to ever complain about any of us, and pretty much is the lowest ranking member of the family.


As the eldest daughter I was always a surrogate mother to my siblings, and was basically at the top of the family hierarchy and had more influence over them than my parents. My younger BPD brother got married and had kids before me, and for a time he was the "big fish in a little pond" that consisted of him, his wife and my sister, who lived in the same town. Then all of us siblings ended up moving to the same city and shortly thereafter I met my now H, which is what triggered all the drama. After I had my second child my brother wryly congratulated me because he said that I now outranked him. 

I was talking about cases that affect me or people close to me. I don't care what grand stories she makes up about her private affairs. Therefore, I hope that the person she is confiding in cares about the "truth"?

Like, pwBPD lied why I don't meet my cousin more often. Her MIL and others noticed that, because we ask about each other whenever we meet. After she split with me, I haven't met my cousin much. So when I met with my mom, aunts, family friends, and they ask me "How's cousin? Have you met often? How's cousin's wife?" I've had to say "I don't know. Haven't met them lately." And I even throw in a half-truths here and there, like "you know...  COVID", "cousin is, I guess, very busy at work". Similar excuses to what pwBPD gave me. I just wanted to move on and not have to address it before I know, what is factually wrong with cousin's wife.

Well, turns out, her version of the story was that
- I was rude to her and her parents (LIES? I met her parents once, years ago, and we had a pleasant 5 minute conversation. At no point during that meeting or after I was ever informed I had been rude in any way, either)
- I haven't at all reached out to cousin + pwBPD wife (I literally have texts to disprove that. Texts with invitations, reaching out and offering help with the move or transportation, congratulations, etc.)
- I haven't apologized (I didn't know I had done anything wrong?)
...

I guess? Like, in this case, she asked why I don't meet with my cousin. The truth is NOT that I haven't tried reaching out to my cousin and making his wife feel unwelcome, that I am/have been rude and disrespectful to my cousin's wife and her parents, that I refuse to apologize, etc.

Normally, from the people that she confided in (her MIL + one other aunt) or her husband (rarely, but when pwBPD is out of town, he is more responsive to shares more details). And, tbh, I don't care that she lies about her own personal life to my family. I let her tangle in her own lies in that regard. What worries me is the tall tales she sometimes spins about me. 

True. So far I have been pretty careful to never assume and accuse. Like, once pwBPD left town, I met with cousin, and after few glasses of wine, he said that his wife didn't like that another cousin's wife (at that time GF) was at her wedding, and was invited to join in SOME family photos. I still haven't tattled to anyone, because... petty, insecure,weird, and not a reason to split and hate on someone for years, but also very irrational, too hard to explain, and I have no solid proof.
 
So, I tend to ask, listen and I give my side of the story if something doesn't match, and I have factual 1st had information. I try to keep a calm demeanor, but also letting them know how puzzled and confused I am about certain accusations.

At this point, I am myself occasionally excluding myself from family gatherings. And, there is a less of them. For several reasons, including her avoiding certain people, me having no enthusiasm to organize anything with her being included, some other relatives knowing about "the tension", etc.


So far, the only people that know about her (official) pwBPD is me, cousin and MAYBE cousin's parents. A small part of me wants to confide in the gossipiest aunt about her BPD, so I don't get guilt tripped by people that only see the tip of the iceberg to "reach out to her and somehow cheer her up because (her cat is sick or something)", "pwBPD is having a hard time at work, is feeling down".

Like, No. I don't have to turn the other cheek, reach out, and try to cheer her up because "cousin's wife is very upset since (one of many reason)". She is a manipulative, lying, 2-faced b... witch, that with increasing frequency blows up at my cousin, self-harms and threatens suicide, sometimes for the most irrational things, like another cousin's now-wife being at their wedding X years ago, some aunt didn't appreciate her gift enough compared to someone else's, my cousin "siding with me" by claiming he doesn't remember me ever being rude, etc. Like, she needs help, not the other cheek.

But... I know I shouldn't. I won't. For now.

I can almost guarantee you that if word gets out that she has BPD this would actually have the opposite effect of what you are hoping. The Rescuers will go into overdrive and there will be even more guilt tripping of you to be compassionate and supportive.

I would be extremely surprised if they would decide to start shunning her or exclude her from family gatherings on the basis of her diagnosis, especially since it doesn't sound like she has her meltdowns during family gatherings.

I guess I wouldn't mind the requests for compassion as long as we all know about her crazy irrational episodes and antics, and her abusive relationship.

It's different for everyone and there is no one right path. However, of the three people with BPD in my life, the path that worked best was to settle into a role as emotional leader and figure out what that meant.

Otherwise, you are leaning into hurricane force winds nonstop. Or, you become sheared away from the pack, which builds resentment and can make you bitter.

Your cousin's wife is probably on the severe end of BPD to be diagnosed -- it is much more likely she was dx'd with BPD due to suicidal ideation and self-harm. Some refer to BPD as a fatal disease because the suicide rate is so high. She likely has no real sense of self and times she stays home, she may be engaging in shocking degrees of self harm. Of course, the other side to this is that she is aggressive, both covertly and overtly, and that's the part you're exposed to.

It may be helpful to look at this way: your cousin needs you.

You're one of the only family members who knows she has BPD, and that gives you an opportunity to read and learn.

If someone had come to me during the darkest days of my BPD marriage and said, "I'm trying to understand what you're going through. It can't be easy," it would've meant everything.

It's definitely possible to neutralize BPD traits and their effects. It takes a lot of work -- the skills are not intuitive and must be learned. When you are in kind of secondary role, meaning you aren't the spouse, child, mother, sibling, there are other dynamics that can be very insidious and hard to manage. This is because your boundaries may seem contingent on the boundaries of other people.

If your primary response is to avoid her or not initiate outings because she may come, there's a good chance you'll end up seething with resentment, more than you may feel now.

In the meantime, regardless of what you chose to do, one thing that might work is asking some kind of validating question, to get people to reflect on what's happening rather that triggering you into a reaction. This is something you can do with the pwBPD, but it sounds like you may too aggravated by her at the moment (understandable). Instead, it can work with someone who is delivering messages.

For example, my husband was often a messenger and it drove me nuts. Once, he said to me, "SD25 thinks you're mad at her." I learned to say, "Huh. When she said that, what did you think?"

Maybe you're already doing this?

I also learned to say, "Let's encourage SD25 to come to me directly. That way we aren't falling into these he-said, she-said triangles."

Your cousin's wife's emotional age is likely arrested. With my stepdaughter, she can range as young as toddler depending on how insecure she feels. Your cousin's wife may be like this, too, since she is trying to integrate into what sounds like a big, close-knit family.

I hope this doesn't sound like I think it's easy, or that you haven't tried these things. For me, there is no real *winning* (you can't win a pissing match with a skunk) to these relationships, but you can neutralize some of the downstream effects that in my experience can be insidious. What works in most normal relationships can blow up badly when BPD traits are involved, injuring not just you but other relationships as well.

You may end up learning skills that work well in all kinds of relationships, and you could become a lifesaver to your cousin, who is probably going to become a shell of his former self trying to manage this as her spouse. 

Something that has struck me about this whole situation is the complete absence of any leadership being taken by the older generation. Your cousin’s really parents should be seeking family counseling over this in order to figure out how best to support your cousin and to navigate this very serious situation. Sounds to me that everyone is just trying to bury their heads in the sand and minimize the problem, which must be so frustrating for you. Healthy families seek professional help for situations like these.

Something that has struck me about this whole situation is the complete absence of any leadership being taken by the older generation. Your cousin’s really parents should be seeking family counseling over this in order to figure out how best to support your cousin and to navigate this very serious situation. Sounds to me that everyone is just trying to bury their heads in the sand and minimize the problem, which must be so frustrating for you.

Healthy families seek professional help for situations like these, and it’s not fair to you to be the only person in the family burdened with the knowledge of her diagnosis. Family secrets are never a good thing.

And there might be some action taken place. Very localized, and kept hush hush from the rest of the family. I could see my aunt not wanting the whole family knowing about the poor mental state of her daughter-in-law. And I could see my cousin's wife pleading not not let everyone know about the diagnosis (she has made suicide threats in the past).

Not sure if I was supposed to find out. I was probably just in the right time and place, and maybe cousin thought I already knew something or was about to find out anyway...