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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup => Topic started by: tina7868 on August 01, 2022, 04:09:28 PM



Title: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on August 01, 2022, 04:09:28 PM
Hi everyone! After telling me he was dating someone else, and a few weeks of limited contact, my ex with BPD’s messages have evolved into being more « conversational », if random, like asking me how I am doing and sending me pictures he thinks I’d like.

They are pretty sporadic; sometimes he replies a couple of hours later, sometimes it takes him a few days. I have been tone matching to meet him where he is at. My goal is the build a healthy and more sustainable relationship with him that could be the basis for something romantic in the future. He hasn’t mentioned dating anyone (or anything other « serious » topic).

My question is, is there anything else I can do? From your experiences, does this seem like it’s heading in a good direction?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: PeteWitsend on August 02, 2022, 09:59:42 AM
Don't assume this dynamic is going to change, no matter how you change your behavior. 

He's treating you how he wants to treat you.  It's very immature and selfish. 

If you're looking for a healthy and sustainable relationship, he's basically telling you that's not the guy he is, without using words. 


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on August 02, 2022, 10:05:08 PM
Agree wholeheartedly with PeteWitsend.  :caution:


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: SinisterComplex on August 02, 2022, 11:25:54 PM
So this behavior is more player like and not BPD related. Why would you want to have a romantic relationship with a guy like him...he can't be trusted. Plus you are essentially in a glass jar and a placeholder...break in case of emergency. Women just the same as men are guilty of this S :cursing: behavior. Don't be afraid to call it like you see it. Value yourself more. If you want to keep the lines of communication open...do so, but I highly recommend you focus on why you want a relationship with him and figure out if you deserve what he is able to provide.

Truly here to support you, but I will always provide a more realistic unbiased blunt approach.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on August 03, 2022, 12:14:01 PM
Thanks to everyone for the reality check! Honestly I think force of habit has sort of skewed my view of things. I wouldn’t want a friend to be treated this way. In my good moments I feel focused enough on myself that it doesn’t bother me, but when he texts me these odd messages or I feel stressed about something else, my mind wanders and I almost start thinking about him as a coping mechanism (an ineffective one obviously). I hope my growth in the past couple of months will win over these habitual tendencies.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on August 27, 2022, 05:32:16 PM
Update!

I am hanging in there. My emotions have been all over the place. I have managed to stay somewhat centered, I have kept busy, but do you know when something is nagging you in your brain?

I spoke to my ex last week. We said we’d speak and then he didn’t answer for a few days. When we did, he said he has a gf now, that he met her online and has been staying at her place. He called me the day he went back home. We had an short, friendly conversation. We caught up on. I was able to talk about a lot of changes I made in my life. I felt very stable and confident during the conversation, and didn't react to things that might have gotten a reaction out of me in the past (him talking about his gf, him saying he might visit).

I was reminded of how easy talking to him is. The truth is, I feel sad that he is seeing someone new. I feel like it took a while to sink in. The first few days after we spoke, I felt like I had finally let go, and then as time has passed I feel my anxiety climbing. I don’t want to waste my time waiting for another text from him. I miss talking to him, but I know that it doesn’t make sense to reach out when another person is involved. This person he is seeing is different than the one he spoke of a few months ago. I feel like he was looking for anyone to be with. Why not me? I know we are LD, that might play a part. I hope that all the changes in my life has got him thinking, but I know I can’t control that.

All of this is really weird, I feel tired. Why did he call me? I feel like I'm a broken record.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on August 27, 2022, 05:41:31 PM
Why did he call you?

For a source of narcissistic supply. Having multiple women who are interested in him is a way to feed his ego.

Healthy men have a strong enough self image that having female admirers is a plus, not necessarily a necessity, as with BPD men.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on August 29, 2022, 09:30:22 AM
What would the best course of action from my part be moving forward from a reconciliation standpoint? We haven’t spoken since our call (around 2 weeks ago).


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on August 29, 2022, 10:53:52 AM
He is currently in a relationship and you are hoping to reconcile? Are you hoping for engaging romantically or just as a friend or as a friend with benefits or as a friend now, and hoping for a romance later?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Skip on August 29, 2022, 12:52:43 PM
What would the best course of action from my part be moving forward from a reconciliation standpoint? We haven’t spoken since our call (around 2 weeks ago).

Generally, its worth noting that most relationships last less than 90 days. If you are thinking to wait him out, the best thing is to be attractive, be active, evolving, be friendly (not at all needy) and let him take the lead in setting the communication pace.  You guys have reconnected in the past and its possible you will do it again going forward.

But don't sit by the window and wait. That will be hard on you and unattractive to him.

I think you may also want to explore other possibilities for your love life. I'm not suggesting that you  jump into anything, just that you approach you life where one option is not getting back with him. Getting out and around will grow you, evolve you, and it will nake you more attractive to him and to others.  It's a win, win.

Does that make sense?



 


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on August 31, 2022, 09:37:14 AM
Thank you for the replies!

Excerpt
Are you hoping for engaging romantically or just as a friend or as a friend with benefits or as a friend now, and hoping for a romance later?

I appreciate how you went through all the possibilities! I am hoping for a friend for now, and hoping for a romance later, with the understanding that there is only so much I can control.

Excerpt
Generally, its worth noting that most relationships last less than 90 days. If you are thinking to wait him out, the best thing is to be attractive, be active, evolving, be friendly (not at all needy) and let him take the lead in setting the communication pace.  You guys have reconnected in the past and its possible you will do it again going forward.

But don't sit by the window and wait. That will be hard on you and unattractive to him.

I think you may also want to explore other possibilities for your love life. I'm not suggesting that you  jump into anything, just that you approach you life where one option is not getting back with him. Getting out and around will grow you, evolve you, and it will nake you more attractive to him and to others.  It's a win, win.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense! It is a very palettable way of moving forward, your words resonate with me.

I recognize that I have put in a lot of work towards evolving, and becoming more open, instead of being stuck. I've come to realize (with some sadness) that even with all these changes, I am still...me. If the fundamental reasons we can't be together have more to do with these parts of me that make me who I am, then there is no way to change to that degree...and I don't even want to.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on September 17, 2022, 08:10:39 AM
Hi! I thought I'd write an update on how my life has been going since my last post. Your reflections have been helpful to me.

It's been about a month since my ex and I had that phone call. There has been NC since. On my end, I have been feeling a lot of different ways.

My "strong" state is when I am grateful for all the good things in my life (I have started making a daily list of what I appreciate), I am excited about my future, I understand that I can let go of things that I cannot control, such as what my ex does, and when I know that whatever happens in the future in regards to my ex, I will be fine. I go out and try new things, I feel good about myself.

My "weaker" state is when I have many instrusive thoughts about past memories with my ex. I idealize and romanticize what our relationship was, and feel very low. It is as though the situation is on my mind in the background. I used to default a lot to this lower state between cycles in the past. It's like a state of waiting. I notice that I get into this state mostly when my mind is not occupied, or after a few days of feeling better it is like a lot of this energy gets bottled up and it needs to be released.

I made the mistake of looking up my ex's new partner. At first I felt like I was clearly more attractive than this person, like there was nothing they had that I didn't. I feel very vain for having thought this way. I also don't understand why he would completely disappear after what I thought was a nice conversation. I recognize that these thoughts are useless. I feel like I want to distance myself from them.

I have moments where I realize, after 6 years of being in these cycles, I am free. I am lucky. People break up all the time, and they move on. Why am I having what feels like a lot more difficulty? Why did I get so crushed, especially if the relationship wasn't even a good one?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Buddy Joe on September 27, 2022, 10:21:03 AM
Hi, Tina!  :hi:

I am very grateful that I stumbled upon your post. I am currently going through another breakup with my pwBPD girlfriend and ex-fiancé. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences in detail. It’s like preparing me for the worst possibility and that’s accepting the breakup and not fighting for it anymore.

To be honest, one of my driving force in order to stay in the relationship is hold onto how she’s capable of loving me. I would reminisce on how we started. How I miss that so much. Unfortunately things are different now. I keep pushing myself that the good still outweighs the bad. This makes it difficult for me to just let go and move on. It fuels me to stay. But my question all this time would be the following:

1. Can I live my life like this forever?
2. Will she get better on her own or is it possible to that with me in the picture?
3. Always hopeful that one day she can get better. But it would really be a gut wrenching blow if she’s already with someone else. When that could have been me.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 27, 2022, 11:10:35 AM
I think one of the most difficult concepts to accept about pwBPD is that the honeymoon phase is just…a phase. It’s so incredibly wonderful and the fulfillment of our most precious hopes and dreams, that it’s hard to come to terms that it was only available in the beginning, with small glimpses at times later in the relationship.

We often think that the individual we experienced during that phase was the *real person*, and the dysfunctional person that showed up later, was their *damaged self*. If only we could bring out the *real person* again, our lives would return to that magical place of happiness.

Sadly, the *real person* was a combination of a figment of our imagination and the pwBPD being on their best behavior, hoping that we’d accept them into our heart.

In retrospect, we can see the  red-flag red-flag we overlooked at the time: the too much intimacy—too soon, the history of failed relationships and betrayal, the damaged childhood.

We saw so much hope and optimism and felt that we’d met our soulmate, as our partner was successfully mirroring our interests and proclivities.

And once enthralled, it is so very hard to come to terms with seeing that they are so much more, so different, than what they presented in the beginning.

But that’s the crux of the issue. If we can fully embrace who they truly are, warts and all, then there is a hope of a successful relationship. If we can’t, and through wishful thinking hope that they someday will be *cured*, then we are bound to be forever disappointed and dissatisfied.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on September 29, 2022, 08:29:07 AM
Excerpt
But that’s the crux of the issue. If we can fully embrace who they truly are, warts and all, then there is a hope of a successful relationship. If we can’t, and through wishful thinking hope that they someday will be *cured*, then we are bound to be forever disappointed and dissatisfied.

This hits differently today. I know that I am someone who, once commited, would embrace the other person, remain loyal, and put in the work. I like that about myself.

But what I understand now is that 1) you cannot decide for the other person whether they want you in their life, 2) their decision doesn't have anything to do with me or affect my value, and 3) I very well may look back on this one day and be thankful that things worked out the day they did, because if the decision had been purely mine I would have stayed, and maybe have missed out on something better for me.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 25, 2022, 01:35:59 PM
He reached out. It was a short message. To me, it came off in a "data collection" tone, to see what I am up to. Here are my thoughts.

I came back to this thread and am reading over the advice that I was given here. I feel like what was said is sinking in more than before.  

Excerpt
He's treating you how he wants to treat you.  It's very immature and selfish. If you're looking for a healthy and sustainable relationship, he's basically telling you that's not the guy he is, without using words.  

Excerpt
Don't be afraid to call it like you see it. Value yourself more. If you want to keep the lines of communication open...do so, but I highly recommend you focus on why you want a relationship with him and figure out if you deserve what he is able to provide.

Excerpt
Getting out and around will grow you, evolve you, and it will make you more attractive to him and to others.  It's a win, win.

I feel like I have evolved over the past few months, to the point where I can finally see that I deserve better than this. I had allowed myself to be treated poorly. I had made excuse after excuse for him and his behaviour, and as a by product I lost a sense of myself.

I sense I am on the fence between still having hope for a relationship and detaching. I don't know if those are mutually exclusive though. Maybe I recognize that he was someone special to me, and I have hope to reconnect some day, but I choose to prioritize myself because I recognize an old pattern which indicates that nothing has changed on his end.

Excerpt
If we can fully embrace who they truly are, warts and all, then there is a hope of a successful relationship. If we can’t, and through wishful thinking hope that they someday will be *cured*, then we are bound to be forever disappointed and dissatisfied.

I can't help but wonder is how I am feeling not in line with embracing who he truly is? I don't hope for him to be cured. What I want is to not repeat a previous pattern that left me feeling so badly.

I guess my question is: does coming from a place of strength necessarily mean not responding?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Manic Miner on October 28, 2022, 03:59:49 AM

I feel like I have evolved over the past few months, to the point where I can finally see that I deserve better than this. I had allowed myself to be treated poorly. I had made excuse after excuse for him and his behaviour, and as a by product I lost a sense of myself.

I second this. Eyeopening and learning about this condition has been a bumpy ride. On one hand, you tend to see that you are not the root cause of the problem, merely a trigger of their emotional response. On the other hand, what is finally seen cannot be unseen. That means, you cannot tolerate this blindly or think it's going to sort itself by long talks and agreements.

Excerpt
I sense I am on the fence between still having hope for a relationship and detaching. I don't know if those are mutually exclusive though. Maybe I recognize that he was someone special to me, and I have hope to reconnect some day, but I choose to prioritize myself because I recognize an old pattern which indicates that nothing has changed on his end.  

I am in the same place as you, it seems. I know my W was someone special to me. I still love her and find her attractive, after +20y of being together. Alas, I'm realizing that I am not satisfied myself in this and that our relationship has taken a big toll on me and my being.

It saddens me to say this, but I cannot see her as truly 'sane' person anymore. And I think she senses this. It's sad. I know I would have the energy and patience to support her on her journey of recovery - if she would take that first step and come out of the denial. While we can only change ourselves, there needs to happen a change for the other person if s/he is severely damaging the relationship that we want to be healthy. Otherwise we are left with trying and making more and more boundaries, getting distant, losing trust and support. YMMV, some can live with this, some cannot.

I am a fighter in life. I rarely, if ever, accept a defeat. There is always another way, another route to try, as long as we are alive. That's why this mental condition is a true mindf#k for me. Here, 1+1 does not equal 2 but some random number, can be 5, 23 or 87. I felt the door for a better life was around the corner and just needed a bit of understanding and mutual effort.

Excerpt
I can't help but wonder is how I am feeling not in line with embracing who he truly is? I don't hope for him to be cured. What I want is to not repeat a previous pattern that left me feeling so badly.
I guess my question is: does coming from a place of strength necessarily mean not responding?

Probably yes. You stop caring, you feel detached, you feel less and less emotionally invested.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 28, 2022, 09:56:17 AM
Thank you for your reply!

Excerpt
That means, you cannot tolerate this blindly or think it's going to sort itself by long talks and agreements.

I definitely see the futility in long talks.

Excerpt
I am a fighter in life. I rarely, if ever, accept a defeat. There is always another way, another route to try, as long as we are alive.

Recently, my T made me write out my "core beliefs and values" and right up there was "never giving up". So I feel like I can relate to you on this mindset.

Excerpt
Probably yes. You stop caring, you feel detached, you feel less and less emotionally invested.

What is helpful about having posted here over the past few months is that I see a pattern in my own reaction after he reaches out (at least more recently when his responses were shorter). At first, I get really happy. Then, reality sinks in and I realize that what he said can be taken different ways. I make negative interpretations over what he says. I am hoping to feel my feelings and get to a better place before making a decision about what to do this time. I overthink the situation and feel pressure to somehow come up with a magical response that peaks his interest in me again, because it worked before, right? It is very against my instincts to be patient in that sense.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: formflier on October 28, 2022, 12:13:28 PM
How have the sporadic interactions with your ex improved your life?

In what ways would you say those interactions have been a negative?

Best,

FF


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 28, 2022, 02:51:46 PM
Excerpt
How have the sporadic interactions with your ex improved your life?

In what ways would you say those interactions have been a negative?

They have not improved my life in any way other than keeping the door open. I also think I handled them well in the sense of emotional regulation when I was responding.

They have been negative because they caused me to overthink, feel saddened because I feel confronted by where we were vs. where we are now in terms of closeness(I think this point is the hardest), and give me something new to ruminate about (how should I respond? when? how long will he take to respond?).

I can see that I am clearly hurt. But you know, just a few months ago when he came we had a huge fight and he said he would never want to be with me again. The next month he called me and said I checked all the boxes and I was the only one for him. How can I give up when there is a chance that maybe things will change again? I am torturing myself, I know. I don't know how he could respect me again when I've accepted breadcrumbs over the past few months. I wish I was stronger.

I wish I could have the best of both worlds, meaning feeling detached from what he says in the now, not overthinking and focusing on myself, while keeping the door open for the future. 


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Manic Miner on October 28, 2022, 04:44:12 PM
What is helpful about having posted here over the past few months is that I see a pattern in my own reaction after he reaches out (at least more recently when his responses were shorter). At first, I get really happy. Then, reality sinks in and I realize that what he said can be taken different ways. I make negative interpretations over what he says. I am hoping to feel my feelings and get to a better place before making a decision about what to do this time. I overthink the situation and feel pressure to somehow come up with a magical response that peaks his interest in me again, because it worked before, right? It is very against my instincts to be patient in that sense.

Same. When W shows her 'sane' side with empathy I get happy as a puppy. I literally think the world is open, the change is there, we can openly talk. But then the reality kicks in and not only that seems temporary, but usually happens when W wants something from me, a favour of some kind or to redeem herself for something bad she said when I didn't respond (no chance to put a blame on me).
Also when she texts me something nice, I almost feel pressured to respond the same way, to show that I care. I do feel she has overshadowed me. The way I behave around her or think... even though the reality is I have much more latent power. The sad thing is, I don't even want to play the power games at all. But for her, it's a staple food when feeling threatened/hurt/ashamed.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 29, 2022, 10:07:45 AM
Excerpt
Same. When W shows her 'sane' side with empathy I get happy as a puppy. I literally think the world is open, the change is there, we can openly talk. But then the reality kicks in and not only that seems temporary, but usually happens when W wants something from me, a favour of some kind or to redeem herself for something bad she said when I didn't respond (no chance to put a blame on me).
Also when she texts me something nice, I almost feel pressured to respond the same way, to show that I care. I do feel she has overshadowed me. The way I behave around her or think... even though the reality is I have much more latent power. The sad thing is, I don't even want to play the power games at all. But for her, it's a staple food when feeling threatened/hurt/ashamed.

Thank you for sharing your experience, Manic Miner. I'm sorry there are power games at play in your relationship. You seem to genuinely care about this person, and these dynamics take away from that.

I realized I had the belief that, if I could somehow "make it" and obtain a clear commitment from my now ex if he changed his mind again (whether that be a clear commitment to dating, being my boyfriend, marriage...), then everything else would get better because I wouldn't be confused. It seems like that belief is not necessarily true.

A lot of my overthinking about how I respond was oriented towards that outcome. It is hard to admit that, in a way, it was even manipulative on my end. I thought if I waited to the right amount of time, said the right words, peaked his interest, then I would set myself up towards achieving my desire. Not only does this not align with my values, but it also puts a heck of a lot of pressure on me to come up with the "right" response!


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 29, 2022, 10:24:56 AM
I ended up sending a short response to his question, and saying that I hope he's doing well. I then threw my phone out the window (just kidding  lol). I let go of caring about how, when, if he responds.

It feels like my new mindset is something I have to "remind" myself of and actively put myself into on a daily basis. When I get busy and don't tune in to how I feel, I end up defaulting to old ways of thinking. I truly believe I can choose who I want to be. The way I see it, this is a simplication of my options:

1) Clinging and staying stuck to the past, overthinking how I respond to try and manipulate the outcome, placing my validation and happiness in the hands of someone else, putting them on a pedestal and myself down, worrying about how I come off, being afraid of the pain of letting go, being hard on myself, waiting

2) Feeling open to the future, having a sense of trust, embracing any pain I feel, letting go of a specific outcome and thus responding genuinely, taking any body else off the pedestal, remembering who I am, actively practicing a new mindset, being forgiving towards myself, not caring (being detached) from the perception of others, moving forward and being open to a new relationship without actively seeking one

3) Completely releasing any ties to the other person, recognizing that they were special to me but that a relationship with them no longer serves me, not engaging with them at all, closing that door and moving forward

Right now, I do not feel ready for 3), although a few months ago I would have been closed off to even writing that option down. I thought I was 2), but believe this past week I was acting more like 1). I strive for 2), and believe I can get back there, that it will take work but that I can do it.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on October 29, 2022, 10:58:43 AM
I think wishful thinking is the most difficult habit for us to relinquish.

Yes, we have a memory of time when all seemed *perfect* in our relationship…and the belief that can recur again. Perhaps we’ve seen glimpses of it after the gloss of the honeymoon phase has faded, so we have renewed hope for its return.

Where our thinking becomes flawed, is the belief that if this *magic* has happened once, then it can happen *always*. And this belief we treasure…causes us to be hurt and disappointed over and over again, as reality bears no resemblance.

If we truly want to survive emotionally intact in a BPD relationship, we have to face reality honestly. What percentage of time have we experienced this *perfect* relationship? 5%? 15%? 30%?

When we are not experiencing this *magic* how actually healthy is our interaction with our partner?

Sometimes math serves a good wake up call. If the *magic* occasionally appears and the non-magical part of our relationship is still mostly OK, then it certainly seems worth pursuing. Otherwise…?



Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: formflier on October 29, 2022, 11:13:36 AM
They have not improved my life in any way other than keeping the door open.

Is it possible that by "keeping this door open", you are closing the door to other opportunities?

Best,

FF


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Manic Miner on October 29, 2022, 12:44:08 PM
If we truly want to survive emotionally intact in a BPD relationship, we have to face reality honestly. What percentage of time have we experienced this *perfect* relationship? 5%? 15%? 30%?

When we are not experiencing this *magic* how actually healthy is our interaction with our partner?

I hear you. The problem arises when I start thinking where my W was right and I was wrong. And I connect those dots and start thinking 'if only I did this, maybe we wouldn't be here'. What could have been better, maybe then... etc.

So while the 'magic' side was 15-20% overall, there is a time when I think of myself as a fool that didn't take the opportunity, took it for granted or haven't realized something she told me before it was too late.
Of course, I completely forget things I *did* right that still weren't enough, but I can't help but think about my own faults. Because I *was* wrong many times. With pwBPD this is amplified tenfold, as they shrug off their own responsibility and treat you as the main culprit and the person who abandoned them. As a guy who is self-aware and analyzing, this can be torturing.
Whoever keeps diaries (I don't), they can be a lifesaver in these tough times.

A lot of my overthinking about how I respond was oriented towards that outcome. It is hard to admit that, in a way, it was even manipulative on my end. I thought if I waited to the right amount of time, said the right words, peaked his interest, then I would set myself up towards achieving my desire. Not only does this not align with my values, but it also puts a heck of a lot of pressure on me to come up with the "right" response!

Yes. You are probably hurting a lot and I sense you still have feelings for him. The best thing you can do right now is treat yourself well and let your feelings be. Let them flow, without trying to make sense or find the answer. Remember who you are, what you always have been, what you did best in the past and try to pull that to the present. Try to see and be the person you really are. Then stick to that as much as you can. You do things because of you, not to please anybody. I think when you are pure, not only you will feel better and in-sync with yourself more, but you will attract other people with similar interests as a consequence.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 29, 2022, 03:00:19 PM
Excerpt
Where our thinking becomes flawed, is the belief that if this *magic* has happened once, then it can happen *always*. And this belief we treasure…causes us to be hurt and disappointed over and over again, as reality bears no resemblance.

Excerpt
When we are not experiencing this *magic* how actually healthy is our interaction with our partner?

Excerpt
Sometimes math serves a good wake up call. If the *magic* occasionally appears and the non-magical part of our relationship is still mostly OK, then it certainly seems worth pursuing. Otherwise…?

I think I understand the point you are making here. Is the answer to accept that he may never pursue a relationship with me again, or that if he pursues a relationship with me in the future it might not be what I am hoping for?

Excerpt
Is it possible that by "keeping this door open", you are closing the door to other opportunities?

I think I've experienced being so caught up in my own head ruminating that I wasn't present. Joyful moments where I was traveling. Important moments where a friend was sharing something personal and I couldn't listen properly. I am making a lot of decisions to orient my career in such a way that I will have plenty of opportunity to travel. While it sounds really cool, and I might have chosen this path anyways, if I am being completely honest, my motivation behind this is it would be easy to move near him.

Excerpt
Of course, I completely forget things I *did* right that still weren't enough, but I can't help but think about my own faults. Because I *was* wrong many times. With pwBPD this is amplified tenfold, as they shrug off their own responsibility and treat you as the main culprit and the person who abandoned them. As a guy who is self-aware and analyzing, this can be torturing.

I feel for you. Dating other people, and even going through situations with friends, made me feel what it was like to be heard and understood and given the benefit of the doubt in these situations (even if I was at fault) instead of shut out and blamed and blocked.

Excerpt
Yes. You are probably hurting a lot and I sense you still have feelings for him. The best thing you can do right now is treat yourself well and let your feelings be. Let them flow, without trying to make sense or find the answer. Remember who you are, what you always have been, what you did best in the past and try to pull that to the present. Try to see and be the person you really are. Then stick to that as much as you can. You do things because of you, not to please anybody. I think when you are pure, not only you will feel better and in-sync with yourself more, but you will attract other people with similar interests as a consequence.

Thank you for these words. I feel peaceful reading them.

I think when I try to explain to my loved ones why I haven't completely blocked my ex, it frustrates them to see me expose myself to getting hurt. From their point of view, and quite honestly it is a valid reading of the situation, he purposefully shows up intermittently to play with my feelings, to see if I will react and pursue him again, which gives him an ego boost. He doesn't disappear completely because he knows I will always play into things. All the while not having any intention of a serious relationship. While there may be truth to this, I guess the wishful thinking Cat wrote about comes into play, as I hope that if I am solid and genuine, I can be direct enough should such a situation arise to deal with things and not read into inconsequential actions on his part as I have before.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on October 29, 2022, 03:06:47 PM
The problem arises when I start thinking where my W was right and I was wrong. And I connect those dots and start thinking 'if only I did this, maybe we wouldn't be here'. What could have been better, maybe then... etc.

Most of us here on this forum would fit the term *people pleasers* or codependent. Because of that, we are willing to do some soul searching to look for how our behavior contributes to relationship problems. That is a good thing...to a degree. The problem arises when we take too much responsibility for issues. Ask yourself if your partner also feels accountable for their part, and if not, then why are you taking more responsibility than is your share?

So while the 'magic' side was 15-20% overall, there is a time when I think of myself as a fool that didn't take the opportunity, took it for granted or haven't realized something she told me before it was too late.

This is veering into magical thinking and again, shouldering too much responsibility for how things turned out. When we think we can control the outcome of our interaction with our partner, we are assuming that we have more power in our relationship than our partners do.

What "opportunity" didn't you take? What did you take for granted? What didn't you realize before it was too late?

If you look back honestly at your history, you probably did the best you could at the time, with what you knew then. Why judge your previous self with what you know now?






Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on October 29, 2022, 03:16:38 PM
I think I understand the point you are making here. Is the answer to accept that he may never pursue a relationship with me again, or that if he pursues a relationship with me in the future it might not be what I am hoping for?

Dr. Maya Angelou once said, “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.” He has shown you exactly who he is, over and over, yet you still harbor a fantasy that if you were somehow better, more present, more something, then maybe things would turn out differently, and he would fully commit and the two of you would have a wonderful life together.

What he has shown you is that he dangles an opportunity for an on again/off again relationship with you and so far, you've still been interested. This is likely all that he's willing to offer. This might work for some, but I suspect that you want more.




Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 29, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
Excerpt
Dr. Maya Angelou once said, “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.” He has shown you exactly who he is, over and over, yet you still harbor a fantasy that if you were somehow better, more present, more something, then maybe things would turn out differently, and he would fully commit and the two of you would have a wonderful life together

I agree with you. The more something also includes my physical attractiveness. I will join what Manic Miner said in that it feels like a missed "opportunity" every time he reappears in my life.

Excerpt
What he has shown you is that he dangles an opportunity for an on again/off again relationship with you and so far, you've still been interested. This is likely all that he's willing to offer. This might work for some, but I suspect that you want more.

You suspect correctly. Especially over the past few months, I have nurtured respect and compassion towards myself, and would rather be single and focused on my career.

A few questions come to mind. We haven't even broached the topic of a relationship for many months. When I have spoken to him I believe I have remained calm and collected. Is meerly responding to him what shows that I am still interested? Is it something he can just tell?

Is this being all he is willing to offer my fault (since he has committed to a new girlfriend) because I always welcomed him back?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on October 29, 2022, 09:12:41 PM
Is meerly responding to him what shows that I am still interested? Is it something he can just tell?

Yes, and yes. By responding, you are signaling you are interested in communicating with him. He is likely to be very aware of minimal cues you give to show that you would still like him to be a part of your life.

Is this being all he is willing to offer my fault (since he has committed to a new girlfriend) because I always welcomed him back?

Think of someone you’ve known, male or female, old or young, friend, acquaintance, romantic partner, who happened to be more interested in you, than you were in them. Is it their fault that you weren’t as interested? Could they have done anything to make you more interested?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 30, 2022, 08:19:56 AM
Excerpt
Think of someone you’ve known, male or female, old or young, friend, acquaintance, romantic partner, who happened to be more interested in you, than you were in them. Is it their fault that you weren’t as interested? Could they have done anything to make you more interested?

Absolutely wasn't their fault, and I let them know very early on I am not interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with them so as to avoid wasting anyone's time or hurting their feelings.

With the relationship with my ex, it doesn't feel the same to me, but I appreciate the point you are making. I have heard "I am over you, I will never be with you again" from him so many times. It feels like something else was behind the change in his feelings, I guess. He was all gung ho about a relationship with me, got very disappointed when I couldn't visit him, was distant when I dated someone he later told me he knew (I wasn't aware of this), and then he chose to find a relationship with someone similar to me who lives close to him.

I guess it feels important to me to explain this. The different components at play stemming from a "normal" relationship vs. a toxic cyclical relationship are at odds within myself. I feel like if it were simply the case of someone not being as interested in me as I was in them then I would have moved on much more easily, mostly because I have before and I didn't take it personally.

I don't want to imagine anything that isn't there, because his actions indicate I am not a priority to him, and I haven't been for a while. I accept that he has moved on, and the last thing I want to do is chase him or try to force something to happen. I understand feelings can change over time, and that this happens even within the healthiest relationships.

In an ideal world, I want to face reality, stop trying to make anything happen, get rid of worry. Be a confident, self assured person, the best version of myself. If things change, as they have before, one of the possibilities for the future include him being part of my life. Does that sound like a reasonable perspective? I apologize if I am going around in circles, you can imagine what it's like in my brain if I am sharing only some of my thoughts  lol



Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on October 30, 2022, 08:45:54 AM
Excerpt
Yes, and yes. By responding, you are signaling you are interested in communicating with him. He is likely to be very aware of minimal cues you give to show that you would still like him to be a part of your life.

Is there any better response than what I have been going with so far that would be in my interest? Should I explicitly say, I wish you well and would be open to reconnecting if there wasn't someone else involved?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Pook075 on October 31, 2022, 01:09:52 PM
Is there any better response than what I have been going with so far that would be in my interest? Should I explicitly say, I wish you well and would be open to reconnecting if there wasn't someone else involved?

My guess would be no.  Don't feed into that.  If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

I am in the exact same situation; my wife of 24 years left a few months ago.  Never knew until recently why she was distant at times, etc.  Our doc just told me that this is classic BPD.  However, my daughter was diagnosed with BPD 6 years ago and I learned from that experience for 10+ years.  

Be supportive.  Be kind.  But put yourself first at all times.  Your mental health ALWAYS comes 1st.  If he's not willing to pursue you, then he doesn't deserve you (at least for today).  Remember that!


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 01, 2022, 12:37:28 PM
Excerpt
My guess would be no.  Don't feed into that.  If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

I am in the exact same situation; my wife of 24 years left a few months ago.  Never knew until recently why she was distant at times, etc.  Our doc just told me that this is classic BPD.  However, my daughter was diagnosed with BPD 6 years ago and I learned from that experience for 10+ years. 

Be supportive.  Be kind.  But put yourself first at all times.  Your mental health ALWAYS comes 1st.  If he's not willing to pursue you, then he doesn't deserve you (at least for today).  Remember that!

Thank you for your words Pook, I really appreciate them :). With perspective I agree that writing that kind of message is not what I want to do. I will put my own mental health first.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Manic Miner on November 07, 2022, 05:54:36 PM
When we think we can control the outcome of our interaction with our partner, we are assuming that we have more power in our relationship than our partners do.

What "opportunity" didn't you take? What did you take for granted? What didn't you realize before it was too late?

True.
Well, at this distance I think I should have been less controlling and less rigid/strict in my thinking. I had no bad intentions, whatsoever, but I can see now that my W needed more space for herself. I was taking her for granted in that sense. However, I tried to fix it and changed a lot in that way, but yeah, didn't see the result. It was always something else. Like a mirage. You see the goal, you go there and it's 20 meters away again.

We even played a "gifting game", as our T showed us. We had to write 10 stuff we'd want to have from the other person, but only 3-4 or so were core ones that each of us could focus right away. We had to mark those we could see ourselves committing first.
Well, my list was mostly about intimacy and friendship, even some trivial fetish-like stuff and her list was all about deep issues, deep (mis)understandings. I remember when I read her list, I was like 'omg here she goes again. These aren't gifts but deep issues'. She sensed that and there was even some arguing about it. I was effectively invalidating her.

Now I see some of her stuff she wrote on that list weren't that bad. I mean, it was over the top and far too serious, but considering everything BPD related, it was manageable.

That kind of thing I miss now. I tend to think I should have pushed harder and be more validating where I could. I guess I wanted to be logical more than efficient.


Excerpt
If you look back honestly at your history, you probably did the best you could at the time, with what you knew then. Why judge your previous self with what you know now?

I know, you're right. I tend to see my faults very clearly and be aware of them, yet somehow forget that I too have seen/endured a lot and my thinking then was also affected by whatever issue was at that time.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 12, 2022, 09:40:38 AM
Excerpt
That kind of thing I miss now. I tend to think I should have pushed harder and be more validating where I could. I guess I wanted to be logical more than efficient.

Excerpt
I tend to see my faults very clearly and be aware of them, yet somehow forget that I too have seen/endured a lot and my thinking then was also affected by whatever issue was at that time.

I can really to what you are saying here. What I would say to you, and therefore also to myself, is that you are human, which can be hard to remember when you're looking back and identifying what you could have done differently. You did your best with what you understood and felt at the time, and you learned from the situation. Everything being so "high stakes" is an abnormal circumstance, one that you can't blame yourself for not being prepared for. Be kind to yourself, learn and grow :).


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 12, 2022, 09:59:57 AM
On my end, I have been reflecting on my situation, from a different perspective. I'd like to share this perspective as I flesh out and solidify it. Trying to put it into words here helps. I guess I've been trying to get back down to earth with my thinking and center myself in acceptance of the present.

As I've mentioned before, the difficulties in the past few months were very much provoked after I had made plans to go visit my ex and then canceled. He had been lonely, and looking forward to me coming, a lot. He had said "I am so excited to see you that I am scared". He had made plans as to what we would do. I realize now how incredibly disappointed he was when I canceled. My backing out had to do with financial uncertainty at the time, but if I'm being completely honest my living situation with my family who greatly disapproved of me going to see him (and thus me feeling like I would need to lie about my trip) also influenced my actions. After that cancelation, I tried to convey to him that I would be able to see him during the summer, but he had completely shut me out. It's like he went into dating turbo mode, and found someone who objectively speaking looks like me (hey, he has good taste I guess   lol). I feel a lot of remorse over the way things played out. If nothing else, I feel like that turn of events really pushed me to finally make changes in my life. I am now completely independent financially, and more importantly I choose to make decisions that make sense for me, despite other people's opinions, and be honest about them.

I feel like laying out the situation like this also explains why it's difficult for me to let go, when I feel like there was a connection, there was chemisty, there was history, and it could be that the degree of his hope and excitement came crashing down, and affected things the way they did. I have witnessed him behaving like this towards others who disappointed him before, and objectively his response is on him, but it doesn't help with closure.


I feel like, yes, he may have lost all feelings for me. BPD or not, that kind of thing happens all the time. Yet, those feelings can change again, as evidenced many times in our past.

Excerpt
If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

We've been chatting very casually lately. I asked if he's free to talk, and I am trying not to make negative assumptions about why there are delays between his responses to my messages. I can observe my anxiety mounting when I spiral into contemplating why he hasn't replied, and I take responsibility for my feelings (in the past I would have tried again to get his attention and blamed him for "doing" this to me).

All to say, I feel a lot more at peace with the situation. I am grateful for this community.


 


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: cranmango on November 12, 2022, 11:58:36 AM
As I've mentioned before, the difficulties in the past few months were very much provoked after I had made plans to go visit my ex and then canceled. He had been lonely, and looking forward to me coming, a lot. He had said "I am so excited to see you that I am scared". He had made plans as to what we would do. I realize now how incredibly disappointed he was when I canceled. My backing out had to do with financial uncertainty at the time, but if I'm being completely honest my living situation with my family who greatly disapproved of me going to see him (and thus me feeling like I would need to lie about my trip) also influenced my actions. After that cancelation, I tried to convey to him that I would be able to see him during the summer, but he had completely shut me out. It's like he went into dating turbo mode, and found someone who objectively speaking looks like me (hey, he has good taste I guess   lol). I feel a lot of remorse over the way things played out. If nothing else, I feel like that turn of events really pushed me to finally make changes in my life. I am now completely independent financially, and more importantly I choose to make decisions that make sense for me, despite other people's opinions, and be honest about them.

Hi tina--I've followed this thread closely. Many of the pieces of your journey resonate with me. I just wanted to chime in and say that this seems like a really valuable insight. The disappointment for him when your trip was canceled was probably really intense. And a lot of his subsequent behavior can be viewed through the lens of him protecting himself as a way to ward off any future disappointment. His fear and hurt and disappointment were probably far more intense than we can really understand.

That being said, his behavior also shows his emotional immaturity. Shutting someone out after being disappointed is not a mature response. It destabilizes relationships and makes it impossible to maintain any kind of intimacy. So while it may have protected him in the short-run, it is only hurting him in the long-run. And this is *not* on you. It's on him.

I am really encouraged to hear how you were able to use this event as a catalyst for change. Achieving financial independence and having confidence in your own decisions are really positive life changes! I hope you can be proud of yourself and see how much you are growing.



Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 12, 2022, 04:32:55 PM
Excerpt
Hi tina--I've followed this thread closely. Many of the pieces of your journey resonate with me. I just wanted to chime in and say that this seems like a really valuable insight. The disappointment for him when your trip was canceled was probably really intense. And a lot of his subsequent behavior can be viewed through the lens of him protecting himself as a way to ward off any future disappointment. His fear and hurt and disappointment were probably far more intense than we can really understand.

That being said, his behavior also shows his emotional immaturity. Shutting someone out after being disappointed is not a mature response. It destabilizes relationships and makes it impossible to maintain any kind of intimacy. So while it may have protected him in the short-run, it is only hurting him in the long-run. And this is *not* on you. It's on him.

Hi cranmango, thank you for your reply :) Your words address the thoughts that were floating in my head and bring me peace.

Excerpt
I am really encouraged to hear how you were able to use this event as a catalyst for change. Achieving financial independence and having confidence in your own decisions are really positive life changes! I hope you can be proud of yourself and see how much you are growing.

Thank you for your kind words! I tell myself, at the very least, even if my ex doesn't come back, I was forced to grow more than I probably would have within the relationship.

When I started this thread, it felt like I was grappling for someone, anyone, to give me the magic recipe so that I can fix the situation as fast as possible. Something like "text x and y, wait 4.5 days, cut your hair, and there you go"  lol. It came from a place of fear, anxiety, confusion and, I hate to admit, manipulation. With honest input from others, therapy, and time, I tried different perspectives. They didn't always make sense, but they pushed me to consider how I was behaving vs. how I wanted to behave. Every time I've taken a pause to contemplate what I was doing and where I was coming from before acting, I gained confidence in myself.

I am still me haha  :wee: I still desire to be with my ex, but I know that forcing, manipulating, obsessing, are not the ways to go about it, and I value who I want to be and the intention behind my actions more than obtaining any result.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 16, 2022, 11:17:29 AM
Over the weekend, he sent me a long message. The main gist of what he said was that he felt weird about our last interaction, that his gf doesn't like that we talked, so he doesn't want to have a call with me, that he's sorry and knows that I must so disappointed and it's hard.

I replied that I understood, respected his decision and his boundaries, and am here for him as a friend if he wants to reach out.

Well. I have never been able to answer like that before. I feel like I presented myself well. I was respectful and understanding, didn't validate the way he assumed I would feel (sad), and left an opening for the future. I didn't take responsibility for how he felt, and didn't defend myself and my intentions because there is no need to, I am not the problem here. If anything I could read this as an indication that there are still some feelings there that confuse him around me, and that his gf can pick up on that and so she feels insecure.

Again, I have never responded like this. I am so happy.

Then, slowly but surely, what feels like a million questions started popping in my head - did I say something wrong? should I apologize? is he prioritizing her because she is better than me? Then realizing that seeking answers to these questions leads to more and more questions, with no end that is "satisfying". Then the feeling that I am not "doing" anything actively once again. I feel comfortable after sending him a message and waiting for a response instead of leaving this kind of opening where I have to really let go because I am not in control.

More lessons to be learned I guess. They keep coming  lol


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Manic Miner on November 16, 2022, 01:41:58 PM
Over the weekend, he sent me a long message. The main gist of what he said was that he felt weird about our last interaction, that his gf doesn't like that we talked, so he doesn't want to have a call with me, that he's sorry and knows that I must so disappointed and it's hard.

I replied that I understood, respected his decision and his boundaries, and am here for him as a friend if he wants to reach out.

Well. I have never been able to answer like that before. I feel like I presented myself well. I was respectful and understanding, didn't validate the way he assumed I would feel (sad), and left an opening for the future. I didn't take responsibility for how he felt, and didn't defend myself and my intentions because there is no need to, I am not the problem here. If anything I could read this as an indication that there are still some feelings there that confuse him around me, and that his gf can pick up on that and so she feels insecure.

Again, I have never responded like this. I am so happy.

Then, slowly but surely, what feels like a million questions started popping in my head - did I say something wrong? should I apologize? is he prioritizing her because she is better than me? Then realizing that seeking answers to these questions leads to more and more questions, with no end that is "satisfying". Then the feeling that I am not "doing" anything actively once again. I feel comfortable after sending him a message and waiting for a response instead of leaving this kind of opening where I have to really let go because I am not in control.

More lessons to be learned I guess. They keep coming  lol


You did great. In fact, you sounded so empathetic and kind, but remained firm on your grounds. Thumbs up! Don't overdo it, don't overthink. Stop there. I know that feeling, I did it myself trillion times, even with friends and other people. I'm learning to cure myself from that. Overthinking is never good.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on November 28, 2022, 02:37:42 PM
Excerpt
You did great. In fact, you sounded so empathetic and kind, but remained firm on your grounds. Thumbs up! Don't overdo it, don't overthink. Stop there. I know that feeling, I did it myself trillion times, even with friends and other people. I'm learning to cure myself from that. Overthinking is never good.

Thanks Manic Miner! Your encouragement means a lot to me. I have been working on dealing with intrusive thoughts.

Some days I feel on top of things, and other days not so much! I do feel like my most logical course of action is to let things be. It's been feeling harder lately, but hopefully if I keep going I will get motivated again.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 05, 2023, 01:45:51 PM
Hello BPD family! It's been a while. Life has been busy. I have been focusing on myself and working towards personal goals. I want to post to give an update on my state of being and welcome reflections as always.

I have been in regular contact with my ex over the past few months. I noticed my own contribution to the old dynamic (feeling anxious, desperate, not good enough) and decided to see these feelings as an opportunity to grow. I felt confused by his boundaries at times, but remained respectful and did not take them personally.

I still feel a lot of care for this person, but I know that I am able to have these feelings from a distance and be happy for him. He recently pulled away and I had a very big picture moment and realized that for the past few years, he has been in and out of my life. I kept feeling like if I could say the right thing and be a certain way, then he would be a more consistent presence. It feels important to accept that he disappears sometimes. I think the approach to dealing with this that aligns most with me is to not take it personally, be welcoming when he reappears, and let it go.

I also tell myself, that if we were to reconnect on a romantic level some day, the version of me that would show up best in that relationship would be solid in her ability to put this into practice. In addition, that version of me would know that she doesn't need anyone to feel complete and happy.



Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 06, 2023, 07:11:05 AM
I want to follow up on what I said yesterday. My ex spoke to me about the person he is dating last night, how he is taking care of them while they aren’t feeling well. It triggered me a lot and I felt a wave of anxiety. To prioritize myself, I realize I need to take space. I guess, deep down, through all the cycles, a big part of me felt that eventually we would find our way back to each other. I have been working so much on myself and have been being myself while talking to him that I put aside these feelings.

Now, I am thinking why does it seem to be working out so well with this other person, what does she have that I don’t, and feeling like I am not enough. I know it’s not personal, I know that things can change. I also know that maybe he found what he was looking for in this other person, and that hurts me a lot because I wanted to be that person with all my heart.

I have been a big proponent of doing things differently lately, and it sounds crazy but if I wait even a week to respond it would be the first time in 6 years that I didn’t get back to him as soon as I could. I want to see how that feels.

A friend of mine said that, paradoxically, the version of me that can be with him is the version of me that doesn’t want to be with him. And I have to work towards being that version of me for me, not with the intention of being with him. Isn’t that frustrating.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: cranmango on February 06, 2023, 07:30:22 AM
Hi Tina—I’ve been following your thread for a while now, and much of what you write resonates with me. I am going through a parallel process here. So I hear you, and I am sorry that you are hurting so much right now.

I think you a part of you deep down knows that these things are true, but it helps to hear it out loud: You are enough. You deserve love. You deserve a partner that appreciates you.

I spent months trying to impress my ex by being light, confident, funny. And what happened? She doubled down on her relationship with my replacement. And I felt like such a fool.

But then I started investing in other relationships. Friendships and some casual dating. And I realized I like being light, confident, and funny. It drew people to me. People want to be around me. And that feels good.

What kind of person do you want to be, for yourself? What kind of relationships do you want in your life? Who are the people in your life that appreciate you for you, and make you feel good about yourself?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 06, 2023, 10:47:27 AM
Excerpt
Hi Tina—I’ve been following your thread for a while now, and much of what you write resonates with me. I am going through a parallel process here. So I hear you, and I am sorry that you are hurting so much right now.

I think you a part of you deep down knows that these things are true, but it helps to hear it out loud: You are enough. You deserve love. You deserve a partner that appreciates you.

I spent months trying to impress my ex by being light, confident, funny. And what happened? She doubled down on her relationship with my replacement. And I felt like such a fool.

But then I started investing in other relationships. Friendships and some casual dating. And I realized I like being light, confident, and funny. It drew people to me. People want to be around me. And that feels good.

What kind of person do you want to be, for yourself? What kind of relationships do you want in your life? Who are the people in your life that appreciate you for you, and make you feel good about yourself?

Thank you for your reply, cranmango. Your words are well received. My anxiety level feels through the roof today. Your experience trying to be light, confident and funny around your ex resonates with me. I have been doing the same thing. Sometimes, he is very responsive. He even initiated a phone call once (I know I am stuck on that). Other times, he is cold and unresponsive.

Also, in the past, when my ex would see me after not having spoken to me for x months, he would talk about how beautiful I was, how from miles away he is so attracted to me. And now, he saw me once and asked for a picture of me when I told him I bought a new dress, and he didn’t say anything. I know it isn’t true, but part of me feels maybe I am not beautiful anymore. I don’t always feel like this, it’s just now that I am having thoughts like this. I get that relationships end, I really do. I get that people move on and live full lives and it didn’t mean anything about the worth and value about either partner that things didn’t work out.

I have been investing in friendships. I feel supported. My friends are surprised when I open up and tell them I have anxiety. They tell me (it feels weird to write) that I am very calm and collected, that I seem to value myself, that I am radiant and take care of myself. I feel stubborn, but I am not open to dating through apps. Partially because I have feelings for my ex which I think would not be fun to bring into another relationship, but also because I plan on moving cities soon, and also I don’t like dating apps.

As to what kind of person I want to be, for me, I want to be unbothered. I want to be so confident in my value and worth that someone not choosing me doesn’t phase me; it’s their loss really, and it’s below me to think about it. I want to be focused on the good in my life and present. Let him go, wish him well, and choose to always prioritize myself. I want relationships where I can trust the other person, where there is open communication, where there is respect and friendship. Where there is consistency.

It feels almost harder to not respond than to wait for him to respond to something I said.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 20, 2023, 10:23:16 AM
Another update post! My feelings have evolved a lot. I started having similar thoughts and feelings to before when we'd stop talking. I felt despair. But then, I told myself, just look at how much you've tried with the same perspective of hoping for things to be different, of hoping if I change something within me, it would change someone else's behaviour. I will take on a new mindset.

I have learned all I needed to learn from this relationship. I wish this person well, but they do not need to be a part of my life anymore. Someone better, and better things are coming my way. I needed to be sad, to grow from this sadness, to ultimately open myself up to new experiences. I release the past, and whatever I was holding onto. My happiness comes from within me, and I do not give the power of my state of mind over to anyone else, let alone someone who plays games. I also thought my fears out. If he is happier with someone else, so what? If ultimately we weren't the right match, who cares? What does it have to do with where my life is going?

I received a couple of texts from my ex. I used to make the effort to try and understand what he might mean behind them. I used to think they meant he cared. But they're not prompts for a conversation. He said something like 'thanks for not replying'. What am I even supposed to say? Even if he does care on a certain level, where is there room to grow in a relationship where there isn't clear communication? Why should I make so much effort and be vulnerable? I don't feel like I owe him any response.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh?


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Pook075 on February 20, 2023, 11:07:03 AM
I received a couple of texts from my ex. I used to make the effort to try and understand what he might mean behind them. I used to think they meant he cared. But they're not prompts for a conversation. He said something like 'thanks for not replying'. What am I even supposed to say? Even if he does care on a certain level, where is there room to grow in a relationship where there isn't clear communication? Why should I make so much effort and be vulnerable? I don't feel like I owe him any response.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh?

I am going through the exact same thing; we're at the same place in our journey basically.  And your sentence in bold is the million dollar answer that I have to remind myself of daily- love is not enough.  It doesn't matter how much I love her or how much I've grown, until we can communicate openly and honestly, a relationship is impossible.  We can't be friends and we certainly can't be husband/wife until we can really talk to each other.

But then, in my mind, I go back to our breakup 7 months ago.  What happened?  Nothing really.  She got very depressed.  She shut down.  We had a brief conversation and she left.  And now that I process this, the entire breakup is over not being able to communicate or talk out her feelings.  That's why I had my heart ripped out after 24 years.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think you're being too harsh.  His thoughts and actions are not based on logic.  Maybe he still loves you deeply, who knows, but the one thing you need is clearly not there- honest, two-way communication.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 20, 2023, 11:44:07 AM
Excerpt
I am going through the exact same thing; we're at the same place in our journey basically.  And your sentence in bold is the million dollar answer that I have to remind myself of daily- love is not enough.  It doesn't matter how much I love her or how much I've grown, until we can communicate openly and honestly, a relationship is impossible.  We can't be friends and we certainly can't be husband/wife until we can really talk to each other.

But then, in my mind, I go back to our breakup 7 months ago.  What happened?  Nothing really.  She got very depressed.  She shut down.  We had a brief conversation and she left.  And now that I process this, the entire breakup is over not being able to communicate or talk out her feelings.  That's why I had my heart ripped out after 24 years.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think you're being too harsh.  His thoughts and actions are not based on logic.  Maybe he still loves you deeply, who knows, but the one thing you need is clearly not there- honest, two-way communication.

First off, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this, as I relate to all the complicated, and often contradictory, emotions that are involved. Feel free to share your reflections, and state of mind.

I also think back to our breakup (or rather when the distancing got really pronounced and he started seeing someone else), about a year ago now. I have posted about it before, it wouldn't be hard to reason out what happened. That way of thinking used to be enough for me to hold on. Then I realized all the treatment I was putting up because of the gaps I was filling in. It was such a solid fact, for so many years, that I would always be there. That I would be kind to him, that I would accept him back into my life on his terms. Not answer for 2 months? Still there. Get a girlfriend who doesn't want us to speak over the phone? That's fine, I understand. Not want to see me in person? Everyone has their own process. When he calls and I don't answer, I tell him when I will be available. When I ask if he's free, he says he will be busy, disappears for multiple days, and never follows up.

Taken individually, these actions may be fine, but as a whole, they really indicate a low quality relationship. I feel now, he can live with the choices he's made. What does he want from me? And more importantly, what does it matter if he can't say it? I can be kind and forgiving and understanding. But maybe, finally, I found where I draw the line. 


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Pook075 on February 20, 2023, 12:27:23 PM
First off, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this, as I relate to all the complicated, and often contradictory, emotions that are involved. Feel free to share your reflections, and state of mind.

I also think back to our breakup (or rather when the distancing got really pronounced and he started seeing someone else), about a year ago now. I have posted about it before, it wouldn't be hard to reason out what happened. That way of thinking used to be enough for me to hold on. Then I realized all the treatment I was putting up because of the gaps I was filling in. It was such a solid fact, for so many years, that I would always be there. That I would be kind to him, that I would accept him back into my life on his terms. Not answer for 2 months? Still there. Get a girlfriend who doesn't want us to speak over the phone? That's fine, I understand. Not want to see me in person? Everyone has their own process. When he calls and I don't answer, I tell him when I will be available. When I ask if he's free, he says he will be busy, disappears for multiple days, and never follows up.

Taken individually, these actions may be fine, but as a whole, they really indicate a low quality relationship. I feel now, he can live with the choices he's made. What does he want from me? And more importantly, what does it matter if he can't say it? I can be kind and forgiving and understanding. But maybe, finally, I found where I draw the line. 

Well said.  I feel the same exact way and I accept it.  I also look at the journey since the breakup and realize how much I've grown- like you, I assumed we were a constant and there was always time to work through things.  Just let this go, for now, and we'll work through it next week, next year, whatever.  I did the exact same thing you did, letting parts of me slip away to keep that "normal" feel.  But I think you and I both now know that we lied to ourselves back then.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that your recent updates really moved me because we're so close to being in the same place with all of this.  I really appreciate you and I'm rooting for you!


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Couscous on February 20, 2023, 02:33:03 PM
Excerpt
What do you think? Am I being too harsh?

You might want to consider the possibility that you aren’t being harsh enough.   :)



Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Cat Familiar on February 20, 2023, 05:04:13 PM
Agree with Couscous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80ToAmjfq0

Sorry for ads on this link.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 21, 2023, 09:19:20 AM
Thank you for all the support, it means a lot to me. When going back to read my earlier posts, I see that people have been telling me from the beginning all these things that took me many months to realize.

Excerpt
Well said.  I feel the same exact way and I accept it.  I also look at the journey since the breakup and realize how much I've grown- like you, I assumed we were a constant and there was always time to work through things.  Just let this go, for now, and we'll work through it next week, next year, whatever.  I did the exact same thing you did, letting parts of me slip away to keep that "normal" feel.  But I think you and I both now know that we lied to ourselves back then.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that your recent updates really moved me because we're so close to being in the same place with all of this.  I really appreciate you and I'm rooting for you!

I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

Excerpt
You might want to consider the possibility that you aren’t being harsh enough.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

One of his messages was along the lines of 'so you're ghosting me', which I admit did make me question myself, because I don't want to be someone who ghosts, or gives someone the silent treatment. How do I know I am not doing that?

After years of him saying things to get reactions out of me, being dismissive of my feelings, being inconsistent, and not recognizing my value (like when I asked if we could talk on the phone, him replying he was busy, disappearing for a week, reappearing with a cryptic message, and not following up), I feel like it would be a waste of my time and energy to explain why I do not want to engage with him. That's not ghosting. What good would it do? He would find a way to twist it around and make it my fault, he would find a way to make it such that he is the one making the decision to not talk anymore. It is not my responsibility to teach him how to treat people, and it is not up to me to give him any more opportunities.


Excerpt
Agree with Couscous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80ToAmjfq0

Sorry for ads on this link.

This song is my new anthem, thanks for sharing! I am also a fan of 'Lose you to love me' by Selena Gomez.

I was wondering, why is he sending me these messages? Of course I can't know the true answer. My T had suggested when I have these types of questions to answer them for myself. In the past, I'd have thought they meant he still cared. Now, I feel like they are ego-driven grabs for attention meant to get a reaction out of me and thus, on some level, making him feel good about himself. I don't entirely blame him for this behaviour; for years, I showed him it was okay to treat me this way. For the past few months, I stopped reacting. And now, I chose to not even respond. You accept the treatment you think you deserve. And I deserve a whole lot better.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: cranmango on February 21, 2023, 12:20:33 PM
I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

I agree that those are wonderful characteristics. Hold onto those. The healthy relationships in your life will be strong *because* of those characteristics.

I am learning many of these same lessons, in parallel with you. Thanks for sharing with us, so that we can all grow together.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Couscous on February 21, 2023, 12:49:25 PM
Excerpt
One of his messages was along the lines of 'so you're ghosting me', which I admit did make me question myself, because I don't want to be someone who ghosts, or gives someone the silent treatment. How do I know I am not doing that?

So he’s gaslighting you here.

What he is referring to as “ghosting” is referred to as “breaking up” by normal people. But if you were gaslighted in childhood by your parents into believing that acting in your own best interests is selfish then it’s completely understandable that you would have fallen for it. The vast majority of people on this earth do not remain friends with or in contact with their exes, unless they have children together.





Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Pook075 on February 21, 2023, 01:21:19 PM
I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

I agree, I'll never regret being loving, caring, patient, compassionate, etc...that's who I am.  What I've discovered these past seven months though is that I deserve to be with someone who will love me just as much, and treat me the way a person like me deserves to be treated.  So even when I miss my ex at times, I remind myself that the marriage would only work if she's willing to make it work.  For now, that's not a possibility for her and I accept that.

One other thing that jumped out is a BPD's ability to forgive.  I do believe my wife really loved me, but whenever we got into an argument she'd bring up things from decades ago.  That's no way to live, constantly apologizing for my worst days when I provided 20+ years of great days.  Time gives this perspective and I am very grateful for it.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Couscous on February 21, 2023, 03:04:39 PM
Oh, I just realized that you are still hoping to pursue a relationship with this guy. I had read your bio and was under the impression that you had broken things off with him and were just trying to not be mean about it. My bad!

But the answer to your question of where this is going is: Absolutely nowhere. But I understand if it may take some time for you to b able to accept this. Wishing you all the best!


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: tina7868 on February 21, 2023, 04:17:56 PM
Excerpt
Oh, I just realized that you are still hoping to pursue a relationship with this guy. I had read your bio and was under the impression that you had broken things off with him and were just trying to not be mean about it. My bad!

But the answer to your question of where this is going is: Absolutely nowhere. But I understand if it may take some time for you to b able to accept this. Wishing you all the best!

When I first posted here that was certainly the case. I was searching for a way to respond to him that would change the way he treated me. I have changed over the course of these past few months (become less reactive, learned to value myself), and part of that change was realizing that I wasn't seeing him clearly. I was creating a fantasy in my head about who he was.

I am glad you brought this up, because I can say with certainty that I do not want to pursue a relationship with him anymore  :) I don't want to be mean about letting go of him in the sense that I want to stay true to myself with my actions.


Title: Re: An update…where is this going?
Post by: Couscous on February 21, 2023, 05:34:59 PM
When I first posted here that was certainly the case. I was searching for a way to respond to him that would change the way he treated me. I have changed over the course of these past few months (become less reactive, learned to value myself), and part of that change was realizing that I wasn't seeing him clearly. I was creating a fantasy in my head about who he was.

I am glad you brought this up, because I can say with certainty that I do not want to pursue a relationship with him anymore  :) I don't want to be mean about letting go of him in the sense that I want to stay true to myself with my actions.

Ah OK, thanks for the clarification.  |iiii

You may want to start a new thread on the Detaching board so that you can get responses in line with your current goal, which sounds like is how you can “detach with love”, to borrow an Al-Anon saying.