BPDFamily.com

"Do I have any unhealthy traits?  "How do I resolve these traits so that I and others around me have a better life? Will the conventional therapeutic tools, DBT, therapy (other), medication and self-help programs benefit me?

This is an important and a brave question to ask, as are questions about having traits of NPD, codependency, depression, etc. This is really where the rubber meets the road on whether we want to live a healthier life.  This is where we dig in and attempt that ever difficult task of seeing ourselves.  

And it is a difficult task.  

Awareness Most of us are very good at this - our capacity to notice things. Many of us have focused a lot of energy on becoming very aware of our partner's, children's, or parent's flaws. This is awareness.

Self-awareness Self-awareness basically describes a situation where the light of awareness is turned onto ourselves. While awareness is our ability to take note; self-awareness is our ability to take note of ourselves. Self-awareness is the ultimate enabler. Without living knowledge of ourselves there would be no hope for conscious, positive change. Thanks to self-awareness we can take a good look at ourselves and our lives and see what is working for us and what isn't. This awareness plants the seeds of change in our subconscious mind. It plants in us the drive and motivation to choose to do things differently.

The motivation for breaking bad habits , for example, comes from a self-awareness of the detrimental effects the bad habit is having in our lives. The self-motivation to change also comes from a vivid self-awareness of what we want for ourselves and our future, and a lucid recognition that we simply won't be able to have it if we don't leave our bad habits behind.

Self-awareness vs Imperceptiveness Many members at bpdfamily lament about how a pwBPD in their life is in denial - unable to be self-aware.  Well, self awareness is very challenging - even more so for an emotionally immature person.

How many time have you read this:



Is this self-awareness or imperceptiveness?  Is mental health like a pregnancy test (yes/no)?  Or are the real questions:

• "Do I have any unhealthy traits in this general category?

• "How do I resolve these traits so that I and others around me have a better life?

• "Will the conventional therapeutic tools, DBT, therapy (other), medication and self-help programs benefit me?

This is an interesting read:bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=40148

 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=40148.msg369780#msg369780)

Good luck!

Skippy

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See list of all self-assessment surveys
(https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/mb/more-info.png) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300130.)

Good information, Skip.

I have issues

Been working on them for quite a while. Probably have to for life. That's okay.

What scares me is having this disorder that is so destructive to others and not even knowing it. I hear so many people say that their BPD's are oblivious the the damage they do. (My uBPDh certainly doesn't get it) I don't think I have it... I'm just freaked out by the idea that I could have it and not know.

My great uncle was Paranoid Schizophrenic, fullblown. I loved him, but man oh man... he was very ill, and he had no idea just how ill he was... it was all the governments fault! And the police... .FBI,  and some girlfriend he had in 1943, and there were radio waves the gov. was using to get into his brain... .oh ya, I got to see what true psychosis looks like. He was also the gentlest, most intelligent person I have ever met, wouldn't harm a fly... but you could see he was in unbelievable fear, pain and anguish... it was very sad. For him that was reality. He wouldn't take his meds because the Doctors were trying to poison him! He's passed on now, I'm glad he isn't feeling any more pain. It was hard to watch.

Thanks for clarifying that this disorder is difficult to diagnose... and the attitude of some pro's in this area. I see my psychiatrist on Friday for my ADD med refill. I will see what he has to say.

Being on this board is the best reality check I have had in a long time

I am grateful  :)

I'm a person with BPD who later (after 2 years of recovery) became a Non with an uBPDxbf who was way worse than I was in terms of lying, denial, rage fits, manipulation, splitting B&W, etc.

I'm also codependent, have ADD and was raised by an invalidating mother, an emotionally absent, self-absorbed father, and a cruel brother. I read peoples stories here and sometimes I wonder if I really have BPD because I never did half the stuff their SO's have done - really horrible stuff.

I can totally understand your desire to find out one way or another if you "have" chronic BPD.

I've done extensive reading on BPD ever since I was diagnosed and I've come to the conclusion that all these behaviors are so related they're on a continuum, a scale, rather than probably being separate disorders (of course I'm not a professional, so I could be totally wrong). But I have read that untreated childhood ADD is correlated to having BPD later (that doesn't mean the ADD caused the BPD, though). I've also seen that BPD is thought of in some circles as being complex PTSD.

But what if none of that is particularly helpful to you in getting to a healthy place in your life? Whether I call myself BPD or whichever label I choose, I still have behavior problems I need to address to make my life happier.

Does that make sense to where you are in your life? I agree that being able to look at your own behavior is really good, especially since denial seems to be such a huge part of being BPD. You definitely have a head start if you wanted to look at some of your own issues.

But be careful, too, that you don't take all the responsibility for the problems in a relationship - that's kinda what happened with me and my xbf since I was so willing to say our problems were based on my BPD, he was able to have a free pass to do anything and then make it all my fault (which I was used to from childhood). I'm glad I learned that it really is 2 people in a relationship and that sometimes the power is unequal and so one person isn't fully to blame all the time.

Best of luck to you in your personal discovery.

Oceanheart, I think we grew up in the same family! :)  FOO issues  oh, Ya   Did you ever read "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw? I bawled like a baby when I read that book and did some of the exercises. Awesome for FOO stuff.

I wasn't diagnosed with ADD until I was 31. It's a BIG struggle for me. The meds are helping a lot (I haven't lost my keys in years!). and the BMT really helps too.

I understand what you mean about the continuum... .I may have similar traits (fleas or my own), and those need to be addressed, that's my stuff to deal with, but that doesn't necessarily mean full-blown BPD or other PD. It's not an either or thing. (HA! it's not black or white!)

I've learned a lot and feel a bit less afraid.

Thanks

About one-third of close relatives turn out to be BPD themselves.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=40148.msg369780#msg369780

About this time last year, my borderline wife was convinced that she was fine and I was the one with BPD. She stopped going for therapy so we made a deal. We would both get a psychological work-up including the MMPI and diagnostic interviews (one hour before the test, and one hour after to follow up on issues arising in the test).

With my insurance it cost $40 in co-pays.

I ask my therapist everytime I see her.  I read the criteria over and again.  I ask my friends and my ex-husband. 

Finally, I sat down yesterday and read all of his old e-mails.  I found that to be very helpful.

Reference my screen name  :).  I thought about changing it, now that I'm over the gaslighting.  But I won't.  Because every time I post I say, "Isitme?  No.  It's not."  Definately, set up the poll.  Realizing that I am totally predictable in questioning whether or not it was me has been highly validating all by itself.

YES, definitely! I have asked myself this a 1000 times. 

My uBPD mother and sister were very good at making me out to be the problem.  I am the one person in the family who challenged them both and they didn't like it.   >:D

Like Rockwood, I ask my hubby and friends too. 

Just yesterday I was thinking the same thing, ecspecially when I rehash why we broke up. But all I know the last time we were together I couldn't even speak because I was afraid. It really doesnt' help when your whole family call you crazy. They are referring to my emotions, I were them on my sleeve I always have. But I do have to say they even saw it wasn't me this time around. Do the poll. I know there is a reference to when you live or are in a relationship with a BPD, I don't know how it's said. I believe it's a french study. The 2 become 1. When you seperate, that's when you start to feel better. Mine had me thinking I was the one with the problem, he even had me get medicated.Do the poll.

I'm still not sure.  Did I contribute to the havoc?  I don't even know.  I don't think so, but I've been blamed enough to question myself and my intentions.  I know I am far from perfect, but I will rise above and so will you.

Between fleas, co-dependency and genetic connections to my BPDs I still worry if I'm just a high-functioning BPD and can't see the truth:

emotional intimacy, relationship and abandoment issues

abuse of outside sources to numb or alleviate feelings

low self-esteem, low self-worth

I have deffinatly thought about it being me as well... Mainly because Hear me out. I have the abandonment issues like Serious Abbadoment issues. I am so scared of being abandoned its not even funny, everyone in my life has pretty much abandoned me in some way or another wheather it be phycially or mentally. I do get moody however I do think its because I live with a BP and I get angry at times... However I do not do self harm. I just have depression which is common in Nons... So yes I have deffinatly thought about it alot... I have read many times that the book " I hate you dont leave me" Or something kinda makes you feel like You have borderline even thou you don't? I get to the point with my abandonment issues that if I am in an argument with someone and they want to leave I sit in front of the door and don't let them leave me. Yes I know this is a problem I need to focus on...  

For the few German speakers here on the board a BPD self test: www.psychotherapiepraxis.at/surveys/test_borderline.phtml

I thought it is quite good - have not found an equivalent in english yet - how reliable - you need to judge for yourself. For me it was confirmation what my T said. And still I think it is necessary to work through the DSM criteria and look hard at the evidence from a distance and in context. I wrote everything down what I remembered or heard.

Stick with it. Self evaluation is critical to any happy life.

Know thyself.

I've been reflecting lately on the person that I am & I have a lot of BPD traits.

sometimes I feel that I was using my uBPDbf too. I feel like he was just using me and like I was using him. I don't know why I feel this way? I really loved him & somewhere in the middle of the relationship I believed he was the one and we would be together for ever. But another part of me remembers when I first met him, I knew he was not the one and that there was no way I could be with this person for the rest of my life. I figured he could just be "MR. Right Now" at the time.

Interesting... .I echo those feelings... .

growing up in any kind of dyfunctional or invalidating family we develop a false self to cope.  for example, ACOA tend to look a lot like BPD, just not quite as severe.

the first step really is looking in the mirror - you are doing that

for me, next is truly being authentic in my emotions and actions.  it takes practice, growing up in an invalidating environment meant that I put on certain faces at certain times.  In life, as adults we still do this from time to time; however, rather than it being a reaction it now is a mindful choice.

Be gentle and patient with yourself - we all have BPD traits especially under severe stress.

peace, sb

So I've been having some relationship issues recently that were directly related to fleas from my UBPDmother and I finally found a counsellor that specialized in Bi Polar, Borderline, and generic personality and mood disorders. Four or Five minutes in talking to her about the fleas that I was worried about she has confirmed that these are all characteristically borderline. On one hand, I'm kind of excited because one, I'm not going to end up like her, I'm going to fix it now. But on the other hand, I'm like her now and that kills me. Has anyone else had an experience like this or been diagnosed themselves? How did therapy go?

i agree with everything sadforson said! my mom was never willing to do therapy and i've done it for some years and am still young. makes a huge difference, as well as all kinds of other things in life.

|iiii

I am doing alot of reading on disorders, healing, personality tests etc.

I know this is probably not a good time to be taking unoffical tests, but I have noticed a recurring theme in almost all (if not all) test results...

Either my #1 or #2 highest scoring PD is Dependent... .

I know this is a turbulent time emotionally for me, so the results COULD be skewed...

I do know that I fit 6 of the DSM (over the 5 required)...

If you have DPD you had it before the r/s. It was just brought out front and center.

Many of us have our own issues that living with a person with a PD can bring out. You would do yourself a great favor by seeing a therapist and seeking to understand yourself and your role in the dysfunctional relationship.

It takes two people to be in a dysfunctional relationship. What was her part? What was yours? It is important to figure this out so we can lead healthier lives and make better decisions for our future.

OTH,

I am seeing 2 therapists... one I will drop soon.

The reason I went with the DPD thing, is because I took online psychiatric evaluations and said that I had a tendency for DPD. I took them because I'm wondering why 2 1/2 months out I'm not making any progress from the attachment. I cannot let her go, and I don't know why. I have tried everything I can think of from writing down as many memories I can of wanting out at the time, to the bad times. I know the online tests are not accurate and can only point to a tendency in the here and now, so I am trying to figure out if I truely am DPD or that's just my enmeshment showing through in the test.

My therapist did diagnose me with PTSD and is using EMDR therapy to help over come it... .I haven't felt any thing yet.

Thanks for the feedback.

Be gentle with yourself,

DBT could also be helpful to you for PTSD. Radical acceptance and Mindfullness are powerful tools for recovery. I didn't start feeling good for about 5 months myself. The change really began when I quit focusing on her part of it and started focusing on my own.

I made a conscious decision to focus on myself. Exercise, Eating well, Plenty of sleep, Time with family, bring old friends back into my life (Who had gotten distance because of my BPD relationship), joined a hiking group, joined a restaurant meetup group, started going out on friendly dates, etc. I made a busy life for myself. I didn't feel like doing these things but I got up and started fighting for myself. One day I noticed I just felt better. It kept getting better.

Detaching from these relationships is a difficult process. It will take some time. Keep working at it.

Good luck,

OTH

Me too.  Give yourself time.  There's not a quick fix, no matter how we wish it to be so.  EMDR has helped me tremendously. Give it a chance.  It really helped me not engage with the ex and see situations from my past differently.  I don't get so wrapped up in little things and hurts anymore.  I don't dwell on slights or negative situations.  A lot of things we can not change and the past is one of them.  

Hi,

I've not been on these boards much in the last year or so - I split with my BPDex in Nov 2009 and things have been fairly rosy since.

However, for the past six months I've been quite depressed, and looking back at my behaviour both before and since the relationship, as well as my emotions, I've noticed many disturbing PD parallels.  I'm not diagnosing myself with BPD or anything - I realise that the fact I can reflect on these behaviours means I almost certainly don't have a PD.  Low self esteem and depression fit much better!  But it scares me!

* I am an attention seeker, and tend to do things for approval rather than their own sake.

* I seem to be very flexible in my point of view, and find it very easy to fit myself round others' beliefs.  I almost find myself trying to live up to the values of those around me.

* I have poor boundaries with healthy people.  With unhealthy people, I know how to push them away and keep them at a distance, but with people with well defined characters, I often feel quite swamped.

* I want intimacy, but when it is available I seem to just push it away and sabotage it.

* I seem to do that thing that BPDs do where when I first start something I think I'm awesome at it and it's brilliant, then once I get used to it I start thinking I can't do it, I'm no good, it's no good, and I collapse.

* I push/pull in relationships, and sometimes feel like I'm acting.

* I wrap people up in my dramas in a big way.

* I think in black and white a lot of the time.  Professionally and academically, I can see shades of grey no problem, but in my personal life and emotionally I can't.

* I'm forever trying to 'beat' people rather than fulfil my own ambitions/desires, which are very inconsistent.

* And that's because (I think) I don't really know who I am and wonder if there is anything at the core of all this or just a vaccuum.

* I can be very emotionally destructive - self sabotage etc.

* I think I'm a little sexually deviant (nothing illegal, just destructive and a$$holish).

I think perhaps I'm reading these boards in order to make myself feel worse.  After all, if I had BPD, I wouldn't have been able to sustain the friendships I have sustained over many years, and the post BPD relationship year that I spent single wouldn't have been such a happy one.  But this whole thing feels like an act, always cycling back to destruction and having to start again.

I've been in therapy for around 4 months, and I'm on Sertraline.  And I just want to SCREEEAAMMMM!

How long were you in a relationship with your ex?

I ask this because I find that my own DH had a lot of work to do after his relationship ended and ours began.  He's come a ways after 6 years with me, but he still has a ways to go.

I've explained to him that it took him 9 yrs to get to the point he was at after the relationship ended, so for him to expect to bounce back after a short period of kind of setting himself up for disaster.  For 9 yrs he had to change his thinking, his every move, his very existence in order to accomodate for the relationship issues.  Now he has to turn around and undo all that? Not an easy task.


My husband still has issues with the above, like you.  And as I've said - he's been out of the relationship for over 7 yrs and with me for 6 +. 

It's work to get yourself around.  You said you are going to therapy - has your T given you any insights?

Marlo 

I hope this is the right place to ask something like this.  I grew up with two BPD parents, and in my infinite wisdom sought out a relationship with a man who also seems to fit many of these traits.  But, reading the list of traits (https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm), I feel that I possess some of the same issues:

   1. I will always be alone

*  2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.

*  3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

   4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.

*  5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.

   6. I have no control of myself.

   7. I can't discipline myself.

   8. I don't really know what I want.

   9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.  

  10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.

  11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.

* 12. I will never get what I want.

* 13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.

* 14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.

  15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.

* 16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.

  17. Other people are evil and abuse you.

  18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.

  19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.

  20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

I'd like some input, please, about whether this means I, too, suffer from BPD, or am I just acting out learned and defensive behaviors from my childhood, feeling this way because I was my parents' parent more often than they mine?  I don't feel that I can't make it through life on my own, I just feel sad at the prospect.  I DO beat myself up and feel worthless a lot of the time, but again, I'm not sure if that just from my parents' poor examples or if I've learned "too well" from them.  

I don't feel I "need" someone to fall back on r rely on - I've been pretty independent since childhood.  Can children recovering from their BPD parents have some traits without acting out all the negative behaviors?  I've been so used to hiding my feelings, keeping them dampened because I'd get in trouble for expressing them, and, and I've been told that I'm wrong about how things happened when I can swear I KNOW I didn't do things I'm being accused of... .I question my own judgement and have tried to find friends close enough to know some of my family history to help me review things to see if they are remembering things as I do, when possible.  Sorry if this is in the wrong place or doesn't make sense.  One of the most hurtful things SO can tell me when he's in angry-mode is that I'm crazy like my mother (she's very self-destructive in her delusional behavior - dad was always much better at hiding it from strangers).  Since I realized she was "sick" I've been terrified of being like her (or him).  

I feel like I used to display a lot of Borderline behaviors, and was generally really unhealthy, looked to others for validation and resented them when it wasn't enough, could not self-soothe, thrived on chaos, and was totally out of control emotionally.  Not just in my last relationship with the Borderline, but also in my previous big relationships (though there were other factors at work in those as well, including possibly NPD and addiction... .)

But as a result of being with BPD ex, the skills I had to use in order to cope with the relationship, and later to heal from it... .as a result I have for the most part gotten rid of those tendencies, and what remains, I am mindful of and able to manage without acting out in messed up ways.

So it's like... .maybe I was Borderline until I fell in love with a way more messed up Borderline?

I've wondered the same thing - I wouldn't go so far as to say I was borderline - rather just had some really unhealthy habits and mindsets - even some that are traits of BPD.  Sometimes I'll read stuff and say "wow, I used to do that!  ?"  I've noticed that since I've been with BPDh I've COMPLETELY abandoned those - almost like I just snapped out of it all of a sudden.  I felt completely out of control at one point - it was scary! 

 

Noob - I have been pondering this question a lot lately. The pwBPD in my life is my DD25 - she has recently been allowed to return to our home after being evicted 11/2009 and homeless on the streets until 6/2011. Having her in my life created within me feelings of craziness and chaos the whole 25 years since we adopted her at 3 weeks. I am a little crazy - dx bipolar at age 33 when DD was age 3. She was just this continuous trigger for me to get depressed, rage, cry ---- at one point the words 'borderline personality' did appear on a discharge from psych hospital stay - though I did not read this until recently. So I wonder - am I really a recovering BPD with bipolar II disorder?

I am really strugging with keeping my calm, accepting state of mind lately. And find I take out my frustrations with avoidance and anger shoveled onto those in my household - including gd6 at times. Why is it that kids sense your distress and act out more when you can least cope? ?  

When I was working in the DBT workbook I bought to try to understand that treatment - DD has this workbook now and I am so very grateful she in now in a place to read it and not throw it back in my face - there were few of the characteristics that really fit me now. Maybe if I was filling it out at various earlier stages in my life more of them would have applied. But what use is that excercise - I am really trying to focus on the here and now and making my life work more smoothly.

Yet I have lost touch with some of the great skills I have learned here and in other therapuetic places in my community life. I am feeling so very tired - just overwhelmed by the details of life that I have come to find rest on my shoulders. I have brought this up to both DD and dh = I need them to step up and take on some of the RESPONSIBILITY for details of running a household.

Am i getting off track for this thread here - sorry if that is the case. Just so cool that this thread was here for me tonight - I am in such a better place than when DD had to leave our home nearly 2 years ago, and we are building a much healthier relationship now. So I have learned a lot - just need to catch up on my sleep and find the time each day to practice finding my peace.

qcr  

I am wanting to figure out whether or not i have BPD as well as my mother and sister.

I have read a lot of things on and off of this site, but i am concerned that i might have BPD too. I know that i work on myself and take responsibility for my actions. I also know that i do not treat people or situations the way that my mother did, but i could use some more insight into all of this. I see similar traits in myself as descriptions of BPD portray - and in my relationship with my husband i see the drama triangle playing out... .

I am going through some hard things with my husband right now (he has been living away and is about to move back in.) So i have a lot on my plate at the moment. The reason why my husband moved out was due to his own emotional issues, which he is (thankfully) seeing a counselor now and is willing (finally) to see a counselor with me for our marriage too... .BUT - i know that i make mistakes and i want to be the best i can be as he is transitioning into coming back into the house. I feel like if i could get a hold of my own shortcomings and work through things like this with my therapist, then i am only going to strengthen things. I suppose the way i see it is that i dont want to be contributing to negative emotional interactions. I know that knowing whether or not i have BPD will not fix anything, but i want to know so that it will help me develop my goals in a more productive way.

It's a good thing to examine your own contributions and health.  

Here's a few links to discussions about BPD:

The Symptoms and Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW] (https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles2.htm)

Workshop - BPD: What is it? How can I tell? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63511.0)

Workshop - BPD: PTSD vs. BPD: What is the difference? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=42598.0)

Have you considered seeing a counselor also?  Before marriage counseling, its often best that both individuals have their own therapy.  

I have been in counseling for almost 2 years now, and i have been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder that really sprouted itself after having my second child. I definitely view myself as introspective, and have done a lot of work on my emotional IQ in therapy. I even feel like my therapist has been able to teach me tools to help me with mindfulness when i get to a point of severe anxiety. My husband refused to do counseling or marriage counseling until he was gone from the house for about a week. I am very glad that he is going now.

If you are really concerned, the best thing to do would be to see a therapist with experience in PDs and trauma

how do i find one who has experience with that? I think that the people at my counselors office deal with that stuff too. I guess i just wanted to see which items relate to being an adult child of someone with BPD vs. someone with BPD themselves. I will just talk to my counselor about it i suppose. I was planning on doing that anyway, just wanted to read more myself.

That's a good start to talk to your c.  If you want to find a specialist then you can talk to your insurance company.  Google.  Psychologytoday.com has a provider finder where you can search by specialists.

I really worried about being BPD myself... .for a long time.  Reading the symptoms, I saw alot of me (now, but mostly at earlier times in my life).  My t has a lot of experience with BPD, and has sworn to me I don't have it.  I still worried about it for a long time.  People say if you worry about it, it means you dont have it.  I have met alot of people with it (on another site).  I think, really, is if you have symptoms, and you aren't at all self-aware of your behaviors, then you are somewhat treatment resistant.  But I have met people with it who are worried about it.  Since children of people with BPD grow up with some of the traits, I think the most important thing is being self aware and working on those issues. 

I worry far less about the label people wear and more about their dedication to recovery.  It doesn't all fit in a neat little box with a label on each.  Being self aware and active in healing is what counts.

I agree with Magenta that the recovery process for someone with BPD and someone who grew up absorbing a lot of BPD mindsets and behaviors is not enormously different.  Working to become aware of your negative behavior patterns, and willing to experiment with ways of changing them, is the key, not the diagnosis.  Whatever your situation is, if you are willing to accept yourself and move forward with patient, positive change, you will be able to build a happy life!   

Seems to me that the things you checked are what many children of borderlines feel.

The way I see it is many people will not speak up in any area of life because they do not want, they anticipate, CONFRONTATION. Discussions and resolving issues in a BPD or violent household usually means overreacting, unhealthy confrontation and putting someone on the defensive and all hell breaks lose.

So, I think the things you checked are simply the fall out of being a child of BPD parents and it's just a matter of practicing good (kind, non threatening) communication skills and taking risks.  It's really rather liberating to take the risk and say what you think and feel and want. It's even better when you get what you want.  It is really good when you don't get what you want and then you can make a decision based that rather than allowing unfavgorable situations to go on forever.  How can anyone get what they want if they can't say what they want and feel.  This is the fall out of being a child of BPD parents.  How many times have you said or someone said to you, "I am not a mind reader.  Tell me what you want".

I was actually afraid that I had BPD, too.

But, my therapist, who does treat BPD's said that I was way to open to the fact that I might have it to be one.  :)

I also told her I thought I was co-dependent and she just smiled.

But, I have to think there is something wrong with me to have put up with this type of treatment from two BPD wives in a row.  I am definitely not dating anyone until I have it figured out, and fixed.

Hey isilme

I think it is understandable to question yourself and your sense of identity when in these r/s. Perhaps even more so, if you have had parents that have also had BPD. The ground you stand on at times, would appear to be moving and changing.

I haven't had BPD parents (that I know of) definitely some dysfunction and over controlling though. Point being, that when I came out of my BPD r/s, I seriously thought omg I must have it also, as I am nearly as bad as him with how I would react to him... perhaps mirroring though... .I know BPD is stable instability and I kinda doubt whether that is so for my situation. I had unstable situations around me but was I unstable, thats the hard q, for my peace of mind I have considered going to a Psych just to say hey Im worried I was with someone that had BPD and I want you to assess me for peace of mind that I dont have it also.

so I say, go and see a professional if it is really concerning you. Only they can give you a concise answer via assessment for likelihood. Remember it is also a disorder that means stable instability (over a lifetime). I think awe can feel like we are going crazy when in these r/s as we don't get validated, it really can be a did that happen or was I imagining it scenario sometimes. So even when you know something happened if someone is undermiining you and claiming otherwise I think that can heighten a sense of self doubt ie the s__t maybe I am BPD one... .and anyone who has been in these r/s has had a sense of their own needs and neediness being heightened for one reason bc their needs aren't being met with a BPD 

If it makes you feel better though I have read many times on these boards people questioning whether they have BPD and Im sure there are even more that have thought it and not written it  :)

Hi isilme,

Let me say first that you're on an important journey, and it's so great that you're asking these questions. Children from dysfunctional families usually arrive to adulthood with some messed up core beliefs, such as the ones you starred. Adult children of PD parents will have predictable messed up core beliefs--such as the ones you starred.  :) The main thing is to use the information to improve you life. Are you working with a therapist?

Like you, I have two PD parents. Early on in therapy I did a lot of core belief work, because again like you, I'd arrived in adulthood with beliefs about how the world works that were absolutely true based on my experience, but were dysfunctional. For example, one of my beliefs was "My needs aren't important. I can sacrifice myself." When I acted on that, my life didn't go too well. When I started to see the beliefs, challenge them, and change them, things went a whole lot better.

With a partner who reinforces your fears about your mental health (ALL children of mentally ill parents have fears about their own mental health; it's completely natural) you're going to need to work harder to get feedback you can trust. Please try not to take in your partner's views on this; he's not able to look at it objectively and seems to use it as part of his own issues. His opinions are not giving you any real information on this topic.

Seeing a professional who can work with you on those beliefs and also give you supportive feedback might be very helpful to you, if you're not already doing that.

A couple of books I'd recommend:



Surviving a Borderline Parent (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68021.0)

An Adult Child's Guide to What's "Normal" (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=123771.0)




B&W

I think we all have elements of BPD traits - BPD criteria is so broad that we could all fit into it somewhere but that does not make us BPD.

Can I suggest the book "A journey from abandonment to healing" - my childhood issues are all about abandonment.

Thanks. I am reading Surviving a Borderline Parent right now, and looking a lot over these boards.  I never knew there were so many people with similar life experiences.  I know I should hope no one else ever had anything like this in their lives, but it is s little comforting to know I am not alone, and I am not completely crazy for feeling how I do. 

Also, I am using some of the tools on here to help defuse SO's rage incidents.  He has been improving on his own, knowing something is wrong with how easily and to what degree he gets frustrated, but never knew why.  I know better than to say, "You've got BPD traits," but I see now that making sure I am not invalidating his feelings goes a long way towards helping him not see me as the enemy during times of stress. 

The ones I have had periodically in my life were these:

Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable, and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods; pessimism about the future;  (I have had 2 times in my life where I would say I was depressed for an extended period of time - more than 2 months)

... .which of course led to:

Emotional lability: Unstable emotional experiences and frequent mood changes; emotions that are easily aroused, intense, and/or out of proportion to events and circumstances.

Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults. (especially when dealing with my DHs ex)

And I marked off: Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities.   (But that's because I'm a huge fan of adrenaline stuff - bungee jumping, white water rafting, paintball, etc... .)

I didn't see anywhere anything about disturbed sleep patterns.  I guess it would fall into the realm of Depressivity?  I definitely have an issue with sleep.  I have a difficult time getting to sleep and if something wakes me up, I can't get back to sleep peacefully.  I've always had a bit of a hard time with this, but it's been exacerbated by shift work for years and stress, bouts of depression, etc... .

Even though I wouldn't consider myself 'depressed' right now, I am still labouring with sleep issues.

Marlo

Lately I've been thinking a lot about my high school boyfriend and feeling guilty about how awful I was. He wasn't perfect either, but still. I was over-the-top.

I ticked about half of them, though some of them haven't been an issue for awhile... .the relationship ones. I haven't been in a position to have a relationship for a long time. Last relationship was with BPDex and that ended for good two years ago.

Yep-I was terrified I was a pwBPD. I was horrifically abused and tortured as a child by my father and older male siblings.

As a young adult I sought T to help me as I knew something was really wrong inside me. I hated myself, was filled with anxiety and kept at arms length anyone that genuinely cared for me.

There is recent research on ACES (adverse childhood experiences) and its impact on the brain and behaviors of adults that have gone through trauma. As I read the research... .well, lets just say, it was me, in a nutshell. No pun intended.

I entered into T at the age of 23 as I knew I was messed up inside. Tragically, the T was not only not licensed but created more harm than good. I was a mess, for many, many years as the T used hypnosis as a treatment. It was horrible, I would have horrific anxiety attacks, etc. and then go into T three times a week for hypnosis. I kept thinking the situation was hopeless and I would never feel full or happy inside. My life was a chaotic nightmare, and it was my inability to think only react. My thinking was so very skewed.

I entered into therapy with a different, licensed T and told her I feared I was BPD. As we worked through my life history and given how hard I worked, she assured me that I was not. Just pretty fragile and more like someone that was brain washed.

Two years later I am happy, secure and feel confident I can handle life. I am responsible, catch me when I behave in 'stinking thinking" and no longer believe life is hopeless. I am close to the folks that genuinely love me... and forgive those that have hurt me.

I am working on living with integrity and shoring up my r/s with my children.

Life is good.

C

Ah those traits... .

BPD traits happen to fall under the general category of "HUMAN" and therefore it is not surprising to me that I have exhibited many, if not all, of those traits at some point in time. What sets all those traits apart from a diagnosis is to what DEGREE the traits invade a person's life and how intractable they are or aren't. My simple way of telling if there is a personality disorder or not is by one question: Did the person LEARN from experience? If yes, you all can breathe again. That doesn't mean we don't repeat the same behaviors, sometimes it takes a few times to learn a lesson.

That being said the mere fact I've picked some tumultuous relationships points to a need for:

1. Challenge. If it's too easy, I'm bored and uninspired. Give me the impossible and I'll PROVE I can do it! (except a BPD relationship of course!)

2. Chaos. What better way to self-induce adrenaline?

3. Risk. I thought I wasn't a gambler. I gambled every time I recycled a BPD relationship.

4. Pain. And I thought S&M involved whips and chains. Get yourself a BPD partner and you won't need to buy props.

5. Anger. Someone asked a long time ago "Why are you still with him?" after my 100th complaint... .and I said "So I have someone I can be mad at."

6. Ego. Easy to feel like the picture of mental health when partnered with a BPD.

7. Self-loathing. Also easy to feel like the ONLY person that could love me is the BPD. (Hmmm are we getting the NPD profile yet?)

8. Blame. See number five.

9. Recycling the past with the present. My parent's relationship came back to life with the one I reenacted with the BPD partner... .and I also got a good dose of what it must have been like to be my father when I was a rebellious, out-of-control teen. It came back to bite me in the butt with this relationship.

10. Identification. Hate to admit it but I was the BPDbf many years ago as many teens and young adults are when trying to find themselves. I was irritable, oppositional, destructive, stuck, and angry about it. I had no real moral code to stick to, and my identity changed with the color of my hair.I felt the world "owed me one" and made life miserable for people close to me. So the BPD felt familiar... .because he was an old chunk of me! I just did a good job of forgetting all that stuff a long time ago... .:)

I totally agree.

As someone from a family riddled with mental health conditions I think it was inevitable I was going to have a few 'off' traits. I think we should embrace all elements of ourselves... .work on the not-so good-aspects yes... .but certainly not fear that those traits exist, else we risk getting into self-loathing territory.

Annie

There is definitely something going on with me.  Getting married to two BPD wives in a row has shown me that that doesn't happen to anyone who is completely balanced mentally.

Also, reading up on BPD and other pd's has made me a lot more self aware about my own issues.  There is no doubt that I make my current BPD wife's issues worse at times.  I am embarrassed at how many times I know the right thing to do to ratchet down her emotional disregulation, and instead, I do the exact opposite, spinning what could have been contained into a mild episode, into a huge nuclear blowup.  A completely sane person just wouldn't do that.

I thought I might have BPD or NPD, and sometimes, I still wonder if I have a little of either or both.  I definitely have huge co-dependency issues, some major self-esteem issues, some depression periods, and a real problem with relationships.

I am going to therapy but am still just in the trying to tell my story phase with my T. 

I have also figured out that growing up in a family where any emotion was stifled, the word "love" was never used, and a domineering and rigid mother who has successfully controlled all four of her children from birthing to adulthood, did not do me any mental health favors.

I think that is what gives me the understanding and sympathy to stay with my BPD wife.  But, for the grace of God, there go I.  And, I know that it is really not her fault.

The thing that keeps me thinking of leaving,but staying so far, is that I can't decide if the relationship is making both of us better or worse in the mental health department.

I understand what you mean.  My mother is NPD/AsPD, and I have a few traits of BPD (my main problem is black and white thinking). When I heard that I had traits of anything being remotely close to what my mother is, I almost hit the roof too!  I am absolutely nothing like my mother.  She is a malicious, cold, predatory woman who has no ability to empathize with others, while I'm very kind, giving, and loving.

I think that there is a spectrum as far as BPD goes. Some BPD sufferers really aren't the monsters that our mothers were.  Some of them are in great emotional pain, try their best, but fall short because of they have very little to work with.  Then there are others (my mother would be a good example here) who are very abusive, and don't even care about trying to be a good parent.  The result is the same: Children in pain, who usually grow up to be adults in pain. 

I understand why you would want to be nothing like your mother, and I'm sure that you aren't.  You are here, aware that you have some things to work on, and are doing what you have to do to improve yourself.  If your mother is like mine, she would never even admit to a problem like this, much less try to work on it.

Okay, back to your question:  I read somewhere (I think Randi Kreger wrote it) that a Queen/Witch BPD is probably actually a mix of BPD/NPD. 

Any thoughts?

Please help me clear up some confusion I am having. I was raised by a queen/witch/some hermit and narcissistic mother. I was told by mental health professionals that I have "traits" of BPD. Reading Lawson's book, I surmise them to be waif-like but there are many waif-characteristics that I do not have.

It's interesting to note, too, that my therapist has helped me see that one of my sisters has waif-like characteristics, too, and my other sister has queen/witch/hermit characteristics like my mother. Thankfully no one is as extreme as my mother... .

How do you know if you are actually showing traits of BPD, or are just modeling behavior and act the way you are because you were raised by a person with BPD?  ?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Tiredmommy2,

Thanks for your post. I'm sorry you had a similar experience, but I'm glad I'm not the only one! Sounds like you and I... .and our mothers... .are a lot alike.

Thankfully, my therapist explained the difference between having traits that are egocentric, like our mothers, vs. egodyscentric, I believe the word was, like ourselves. And that's why people like you and I can get better and people like our moms rarely seek treatment.

He also explained the spectrum to me. I don't understand why more books and articles make representation of the spectrum. I'm even beginning to wonder if my husband's therapist thinks I'm a waif, by certain remarks he has said to me that are not true. That would be unethical, since she doesn't know me. Anyway, I'm getting off target here... .

I'm glad you said that some BPD sufferers really aren't the monsters that our mothers were. That's what most people, however, think of when you say "BPD". We need to break that stigma somehow.

You described me to a T when you wrote: "Some BPD sufferers really aren't the monsters that our mothers were.  Some of them are in great emotional pain, try their best, but fall short because of they have very little to work with.  Then there are others (my mother would be a good example here) who are very abusive, and don't even care about trying to be a good parent.  The result is the same: Children in pain, who usually grow up to be adults in pain."

I wish every person in the mental health profession as well as every person who has a life with a BPD or one with BPD traits could read that. 

Yes, my mother is like yours... .would never admit to a problem like this or try to work on it.

Interesting... .yes I do believe my queen/witch BPD mother is also NPD. I haven't read Kreger's book, though.

Thank you so much.  :)

I used to be guilty of this too!  When I first found this site, I just knew that my mother had BPD, and since she really was an abusive monster, I thought that everyone with BPD was similar to her.  How wrong I was!  After spending a lot of time here reading the posts of others who had the type of mothers who inflicted pain, but at least tried, I started to see that my mother was very, very different. The level of malevolence that she exhibits seems to be the exception rather than the rule; thankfully so, because I wouldn't wish a mother like this on anyone! 


I wish that everyone would understand this too... .My last T tried to insist that my mother did her best but didn't have much to work with. Ummm... .not quite.  I saw her "best" with my golden child brother, which still wasn't all that great, but it was a h*ll of a lot better than what I got from her. She seemed to hate me just for being born, and severely abused me just for being there. (I was very quiet and obedient so I really shouldn't have been too much of a bother to her) I spent my whole childhood and beyond trying to prove to her that she was wrong, that I wasn't as bad as she thought I was, but it never happened.  No matter what I did or didn't do, she never accepted me as being a decent person, and I've finally accepted that she never will.  NC all the way for me now.

Your mother may very well be NPD instead of BPD, or perhaps she could have both. Here is a thread where we were discussing the difference if you are interested: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=158119.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=158119.0)

BTW, I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. 

tiredmommy2,

My mom inflicted pain and I think tried in her own way, but it was more of denial type, blame the bad child, kind of try. Her level of malevolence seems to have matched your mother's. I assumed the majority of people with BPD were like this! I didn't realize she was the exception rather than the rule... .

I "fired" my last T when she tried to use positive psychology tactics on me by saying, "Your mother did the best she could" and "Your mother raised 3 girls; that's a lot of work." These two statements were the most painful things anyone could have said to me. It basically unvalidated everything I had been feeling. It gave my mother the excuse to be who she was. My mother never apologized for the way she treated me, and she never will.

I always felt that if my mother could treat my "golden child" sister one way, but me and my other sister differently, then she was making the choice to do so. How could one person be so evil and cruel toward one child, but so worshiping and loving to another... .

I, too, spent my entire childhood, and adulthood trying to prove her wrong. I spent my life trying to get some kind of love from her, by stifling my sense of individuality to be more like the golden child. I'm 42 and still trying to let myself be myself.

I'm quite sure my mother is both NPD and BPD, but I will check out the thread you posted.

I'm sorry you had to deal with your mother, too. But you seem like you are in such a healthy place now, and I'm happy for you.

I don't blame you AT all... .My last T did this initially, and my initial reaction was to be too shocked to say anything.  During the next session, I told her that I didn't want to hear anything that remotely sounded like an excuse for my mother's behavior because I had spent over 30 years coming up with them myself.  She told me that I didn't have to agree with everything she said, so I accepted that and continued working with her.  I remember telling her about one particularly traumatic event, and she responded by telling me that my mother must have had a rough life.  I don't care what kind of life she had anymore!  I've had a "rough" life and don't abuse my children so enough already! I got so aggravated with her because of this (among a few other things) that I stopped going.  I was paying her good money to help me improve myself, not to make excuses for my mother's abuse.

Like you, my mother has NEVER apologized for the way that she treated me.  Back in my 20s, prior to knowing anything about PDs, I decided to try to talk to her about a couple of horrible things that she did, just looking for any sense of remorse.  There was nothing!  She twisted everything around to turn herself into the victim, then told me that the past was in the past. 


This was my argument with the last T.  I told her that she proved that she was capable of better by the way that she treated my brother, which is the exact opposite of how she treated me.  She treated me like garbage by choice, not because she couldn't do any better... .Believe it or not, the T still didn't understand this, and stuck to her earlier statement that my mother did the best that she could.

I'm not as healthy as I seem, but thank you for the compliment! lol  I have PTSD and some BPD traits that I'm aware of and working on.  Self-help DBT is helping somewhat.  :)

Hi tiredmommy2,  Hi!

Sorry I'm not very good with the quotes and all, but I'll do my best:


I don't blame you AT all... .My last T did this initially, and my initial reaction was to be too shocked to say anything.  :)uring the next session, I told her that I didn't want to hear anything that remotely sounded like an excuse for my mother's behavior because I had spent over 30 years coming up with them myself.  She told me that I didn't have to agree with everything she said, so I accepted that and continued working with her.  I remember telling her about one particularly traumatic event, and she responded by telling me that my mother must have had a rough life.  I don't care what kind of life she had anymore!  I've had a "rough" life and don't abuse my children so enough already! I got so aggravated with her because of this (among a few other things) that I stopped going.  I was paying her good money to help me improve myself, not to make excuses for my mother's abuse.
Well, I should have also explained that I didn't fire her just because of that... .that would've been a BPD thing for me to do!   (My current therapist loves to point out when I do a non-BPD thing!) Anyway, there were other reasons I stopped being her patient, but that was the last straw so to speak. I cannot believe your T responded by telling you that your mother had a rough life. Just because someone had a rough life does not mean they have the right to be abusive! I'm 42, been in therapy on and off since age 21, and the ONE thing that finally got me to stop trying to please my mother and to stop trying to win her approval and love, was when another psychologist, who likes Albert Ellis's methods, said to me, "YOUR MOTHER IS CRAZY!" That validated things for me, because in MY mind it was either me or her... .I'm sure many people on this board would not agree with his tactics, but it worked. It helped me get a start out of a very dark deep black hole I was in.

It drives me crazy whenever someone excuses bad behavior. I will not tolerate it anymore.


Like you, my mother has NEVER apologized for the way that she treated me.  Back in my 20s, prior to knowing anything about PDs, I decided to try to talk to her about a couple of horrible things that she did, just looking for any sense of remorse.  There was nothing!  She twisted everything around to turn herself into the victim, then told me that the past was in the past.  
My mother not only never apologized for how she treated me, but she blamed ME for how she treated me, blamed ME for her rages and how she acted, and even DENIED hitting me (well... .that was in front of my dad, so maybe she was lying on purpose, I don't know.) I know I will never get an apology. When I recently asked my sister for an apology for very cruel behavior she showed toward me when I was in a car accident, her reply was a very bhity, "That was a long time ago." I guess these people are utterly incapable of saying the words, "I love you" or "I'm sorry".

My mother did the same thing as you... .twisted everything around to make herself the victim of a misbehaved child (which I wasn't. I was a good kid.) Or, she blamed the stress of her relationship with her own mother on how she behaved. She once got a speeding ticket while she was going ballistic on me in the car, and yup that was my fault, too. Everything was my fault. She'd shake and scream, "LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO ME!" so loudly her face would turn purple and she looked like a monster. So even her abusive behavior was my fault.



This was my argument with the last T.  I told her that she proved that she was capable of better by the way that she treated my brother, which is the exact opposite of how she treated me.  She treated me like garbage by choice, not because she couldn't do any better... .Believe it or not, the T still didn't understand this, and stuck to her earlier statement that my mother did the best that she could.
WOW. I'm so sorry you had an obviously incompetent therapist. I haven't brought up this fact to my current T, but I'm going to make a note to do so and will try to remember to tell you what he says. There's no way in hell either of us should ever think that this was a person "doing the best she could" because if that was the case, she would have gotten help!


I'm not as healthy as I seem, but thank you for the compliment! lol  I have PTSD and some BPD traits that I'm aware of and working on.  Self-help DBT is helping somewhat.  :)
Please give yourself more credit! I haven't been on this board for about a year, but I clearly recall that you were extremely helpful to me in your posts and replies. I also have PTSD and some BPD waif-traits that I'm aware of and working on, with a wonderful therapist who understands BPD and is just such a nice person. I feel very safe with him. He always reassures me that I'm working hard, which helps a lot, because I feel like a lot of my other therapy was a waste of time and money.

What kind of self-help DBT do you do?

Happy new year to you, tiredmommy2! [/quote]

My future ex comes from a long line of messed-up people.

She and her mom make an amazing team of abuser and abused.

From my early teens to mid 20's I was put in set up to be manipulated, lied to, lied about, and emotionally and mentally abused and neglected.

I have been out of the house from them for a year, but I am still damaged. I am sorry to hear anyone went through worse than I did. My experience is/was a good day for many people on here.  

I would like to share something that I learned quite a few years ago:  Pain is pain.  My pain is as painful to me as yours is to you.  I'm sorry that you had to endure what you did. 

Sahdesofgray, I use www.dbtselfhelp.com/ (http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/).  There's a link on the left for lessons, so that's where all the good information is.  The other thing that I found very useful was here: www.BPDrecovery.com/HomePage (http://www.BPDrecovery.com/HomePage) The links for The 10 Types of Twisted Thinking and The 10 Ways to Untwist Your Thinking were helpful - I used them to pinpoint some of my own twisted thinking... .There was a time where I would have been ashamed to admit that I had some traits of BPD, but as you can see, I'm over it. I now think that it would be almost impossible to grow up in this toxic environment and not have at least a few traits, so it's par for the course as far as I'm concerned. 

Happy New Year to you too, Shadesofgray (love the name, btw)!