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Author Topic: Emotional reasoning: Let's take a closer look at it  (Read 1000 times)
Kwamina
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« on: February 24, 2016, 09:45:06 AM »

Hi Board

Emotional reasoning as in thinking or assuming that emotional states legitimately and accurately reflect reality, is one of the ten forms of distorted thinking listed by David D. Burns, M.D.. You can read more about all the tens forms of distorted thinking in another thread:

Automatic negative thoughts: Talking back to your inner critic/negative voice

In the Feeling Good Handbook, Dr. Burns says the following about emotional reasoning:

"You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: "I feel terrified about going on airplanes. It must be very dangerous to fly." Or, "I feel guilty. I must be a rotten person." Or, "I feel angry. This proves that I'm being treated unfairly." Or, "I feel so inferior. This means I'm a second rate person." Or, "I feel hopeless. I must really be hopeless."."

What I find interesting about emotional reasoning is that in a way it is perhaps different than the other forms of distorted thinking which lead to negative emotions. The distortion in emotional reasoning is that you think your negative emotions are an accurate reflection of reality which as a result causes you even more negative emotions and negative thoughts. The initial negative emotions at the heart of emotional reasoning however, might not always be that easily traced back to forms of distorted thinking. It could for instance be that certain triggers are at the root of the emotional reasoning without you really being aware of why you are triggered or that you are even triggered in the first place. Considering this aspect of emotional reasoning, I think it is also interesting to look at the concept of emotional flashbacks as presented by Pete Walker, M.A.:

Excerpt
Emotional flashbacks are sudden and often prolonged regressions ('amygdala hijackings' to the frightening circumstances of childhood. They are typically experienced as intense and confusing episodes of fear and/or despair - or as sorrowful and/or enraged reactions to this fear and despair. Emotional flashbacks are especially painful because the inner critic typically overlays them with toxic shame, inhibiting the individual from seeking comfort and support, isolating him in an overwhelming and humiliating sense of defectiveness.

Because most emotional flashbacks do not have a visual or memory component to them, the triggered individual rarely realizes that she is re-experiencing a traumatic time from childhood.

You can read more about emotional flashbacks in this thread:

Dealing with trauma: PTSD, C-PTSD and emotional flashbacks

Like many children of a BPD parent, I found myself dealing with automatic negative thoughts in my adult life. The interesting thing for me was that although emotional reasoning was probably the form of distorted thinking I was experiencing most frequently, I at first was totally unaware of it. I could identify the other forms of distorted thinking but not the emotional reasoning. I think that is probably because I found it hard to believe that you could really just have negative emotions out of nowhere that wouldn't be an accurate reflection of what was going on. That seemed implausible, but that's the thing with triggers as also becomes clear from the concept of emotional flashbacks, there isn't necessarily a clear thought or memory component to triggers. You just get triggered or get caught up in emotional reasoning.

I am interested in hearing the experiences of other members with emotional reasoning and/or emotional flashbacks.

Thanks for anything you are willing to share here! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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bethanny
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 11:15:36 AM »

 

Kwamina,

Excellent share. I had read Burns' book years ago.  So much wisdom in your words.  

Emotional reasoning.  That label has applied to me this week for sure.  

My amazement when I actually did two reality checks with such comforting and empowering results (I posted thread about). The earlier emotional nightmares i had put myself through were results of my learned helpless and hopeless hardwiring from u-BPD and alcoholic family conditioning. Two trips of pain that were gratuitous and could have resulted in profound and unnecessary, self-destructive losses.

Best,

Bethany

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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 11:22:11 AM »

Maybe I am not understanding this so well?

For me, there is always a thought or memory component to a trigger causing an emotional flashback, however, I am not always aware of what it is.  Or at least I think there is an initial trigger thought/memory... .because I often sit and ponder and can discover the trigger, but not always.

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Kwamina
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 11:47:59 AM »

Hi bethanny and Sunfl0wer

Thanks for responding!

My amazement when I actually did two reality checks with such comforting and empowering results (I posted thread about). The earlier emotional nightmares i had put myself through were results of my learned helpless and hopeless hardwiring from u-BPD and alcoholic family conditioning. Two trips of pain that were gratuitous and could have resulted in profound and unnecessary, self-destructive losses.

I am glad you were able to recognize what was going on and not run or react destructively to your fears. This definitely sounds like progress to me Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) It also reminds me of 2 of Dr. Burns' tips to help untwist our thinking:

Excerpt
... .

4.   The Experimental Technique: Do an experiment to test the validity of your negative thought. For example, if during an episode of panic, you become terrified that you're about to die of a heart attack, you could jog or run up and down several flights of stairs. This will prove that your heart is healthy and strong.

... .

6.   The Survey Method: Ask people questions to find out if your thoughts and attitudes are realistic. For example, if you feel that public speaking anxiety is abnormal and shameful, ask several friends if they ever felt nervous before they gave a talk.

... .

Now to Sunfl0wer:

Maybe I am not understanding this so well?

For me, there is always a thought or memory component to a trigger causing an emotional flashback, however, I am not always aware of what it is.  Or at least I think there is an initial trigger thought/memory... .because I often sit and ponder and can discover the trigger, but not always.

I think you are right that there is some sort of thought or memory component underlying the triggers which lead to emotional flashbacks. The difficult thing I think is as you point out too, that you might not always be aware of what that component is or only are able to figure it out after you've already been triggered for quite some time. That was something that amazed me that I could actually be walking around triggered by something without even realizing that I was triggered or without being fully aware of what exactly triggered me. It's like not only dealing with automatic negative thoughts which lead to negative feelings, but also dealing with seemingly automatic negative feelings. The thing to explore then is what triggered these seemingly automatic negative feelings and why did it trigger this particular response.
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Woolspinner2000
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2016, 08:47:35 PM »

I've been kicking this whole thread around in my head for nearly a week now, Kwamina. I knew it would take some time to not only think about it, but also to have the time to sit down and respond. I've had an idea in mind for the last few days, and I'll give it a go and see if I'm on the right track. My T was able to help me put all the pieces together when I met with him last week. I had no idea how profound the impact would be of working through this particular hidden emotional trigger/reasoning.

That was something that amazed me that I could actually be walking around triggered by something without even realizing that I was triggered or without being fully aware of what exactly triggered me. It's like not only dealing with automatic negative thoughts which lead to negative feelings, but also dealing with seemingly automatic negative feelings. The thing to explore then is what triggered these seemingly automatic negative feelings and why did it trigger this particular response.

In the past few weeks, I've been very easily startled by 'night' noises. This isn't the first time, but rather than an occasional situation like in the past, it's been constant. Didn't matter if it was a bump or a muffled sound of some sort, or the strong wind gusts blowing and whistling around our home. I've found myself waking with heart racing, not being able to go back to sleep due to the scared feelings my Lil' Wools was feeling, and even my teenage inner child too. At least I recognized who was feeling the fear and hyper alert stages.

In the past few years of T as my memories have come back, I've been able to realize that most of the time this night startling comes from remembering the night fights and the sounds of physical violence taking place as my dad would hit my uBPDm. So this time around I figured it was the same. But even with attempts to comfort Lil Wools, I kept triggering off and on. Finally I took time to step back and take a deeper look. The closer I got to the memory, I sensed that it wasn't the fear of my parents hitting one another but it was something else. Was it fear that I'd be hit as I tried to intervene? I was not able to isolate it. As Kwamina posted, I was quite literally walking around for several weeks not knowing what was the trigger.

In some of my recent posts, I've mentioned that issues with DH are escalating. For about 3 weeks I've been thinking we may end up separating, and my T keeps telling me that it isn't all about DH but it is also about Lil Wools and my teen self. I've been telling myself how stupid I am lately too, and that was another sign that emotional triggering was taking place. When I described the night triggers to my T, in my mind I was that little girl, in the same room with my parents as they were fighting. He asked me if as that little child I ever wondered if they would break up and divorce. Instantly I knew, that was it, the connection from my childhood and the night sounds and the fighting to my current state of a very unstable marriage relationship in which I'm afraid we will break up. I had no idea that they were connected in any way, but they are so very connected.

Then my T asked me if as a child I ever blamed myself for my parents break up, if it was my fault. Once again, hit home so hard. I recall the terrible dreams I had in college the first months after my mom left my dad. So many nightmares and tears and blaming of myself. So here I am, fearing the break up and feeling the blame of the problems. It really was very shocking to put everything together.

That's the long story of answering your post. Without knowing it, my emotional reasoning was saying

1. My parents may be breaking up/DH and I may be breaking up, and

2. It's my fault and I'm to blame since we are having trouble (both then and now).

The night sounds started the awakening, then lead to the fights, which then lead to the exposing of the truth of my fears of then and unconscious connection to now.

At least now I know, and there is a certain relief. Now I can hopefully work through the new revelations of the impact upon me from those early years and hopefully reason through more carefully the present. Who knew that the winds of the past could fan the present so strongly?

Wools

 

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Kwamina
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 08:24:26 AM »

Who knew that the winds of the past could fan the present so strongly?

Who knew indeed!

Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights with us Wools. Your post really illustrates how hard it can be not only realizing that you are triggered and determining what exactly triggered you, but especially also how hard it can be to determine why this triggers you so much.

Your T asked you some great questions which helped you determine what was really going on. I am glad you were able to come to these insights and hopefully this will also help you going forward. The situation with your husband is quite difficult and I can definitely see how this could trigger you.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 11:16:07 AM »

Excerpt
That was something that amazed me that I could actually be walking around triggered by something without even realizing that I was triggered or without being fully aware of what exactly triggered me. It's like not only dealing with automatic negative thoughts which lead to negative feelings, but also dealing with seemingly automatic negative feelings. The thing to explore then is what triggered these seemingly automatic negative feelings and why did it trigger this particular response.

Ok, I originally felt confused about this thread.  Only somewhat clearer I think... .because I think these past days it has become more relevant.

Maybe this past ten days is an example.  I have felt numb, walking around going through the motions.  Whereas two weeks ago I was feeling great and very grounded.  So, well, I had a T session yesterday, my mental fog is lifted, I again feel grounded thank goodness!  And now I can reflect better as a result of more clarity today... .

So part of my issue is an illness that does cause fatigue and mental fog.  It is challenging for me to decide if I am ill or depressed or depressed because ill and vice versa... .I overthink things... .and then can run myself into a nice hole.

My mind was feeling a mess.  Looking back, I feel my issue was my illness, which then caused some depression, and a minor loss caused additional depression... .then my lower productivity caused me anxiety at work... .the altered emotional state differed so much from previous week that I started to end up feeling quite dissociative and in foggy mental faculties.

Somehow... .my T is awesome and just him validating my illness really helped it to be real vs me self blaming.  Then he validated some loss stuff.  By the end, I really felt clear vs the guilt of illness being my fault and bogging me down.  (I do have some affect on illness but am still learning that so that confuses me also.  I overexercised which made me have minor ill feelings a week.)

Ok... so I am still not thinking very clear and will stop there as it seems confusing to myself some.

Thanks for starting great thought provoking threads that challenge!

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nowitmakessense

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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 11:22:44 PM »

Very interesting concept "emotional reasoning." Coming from abuse, I felt automatically negative about a lot of things a lot of the time! Particularly myself... .when people treat you with less love than they would give a goat, it really does a number on your self worth, and it seems normal to just think you are not worth it, or not good enough, or not important. None of those feelings are reality however! We are good, and worthy, and important. Low self esteem does not mean you really are pitiful. I like this idea a lot, and when I find myself running those negative tapes through my mind I'm going to remember that just because I think it or feel it does not mean it is reality.  The reality of my life is that I have two wonderful children, a best friend, a home, a great job, money, stability, and many reasons to be happy.

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Kwamina
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 10:08:11 AM »

Hi Sunfl0wer and nowitmakessense

So, well, I had a T session yesterday, my mental fog is lifted, I again feel grounded thank goodness!  And now I can reflect better as a result of more clarity today... .

Looking back at your T session now a few days have passed, do you perhaps feel it was something specific your T said that helped you pinpoint the root-cause of you feeling numb and as a result helped lift that feeling?

The reality of my life is that I have two wonderful children, a best friend, a home, a great job, money, stability, and many reasons to be happy.

Many reasons to be happy indeed! Smiling (click to insert in post) It is really important to keep these things in mind, especially when you sense that you're getting down on yourself. Writing the positive aspects of your live down can also help.
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