Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 03:57:14 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Depression = 72% of members
Take the test, read about the implications, and check out the remedies.
111
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Infidelity  (Read 767 times)
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« on: October 30, 2010, 06:25:54 AM »

OK.  This is part getting stuff off my chest, part survey.  Thanks for reading and hearing me out.

I don't think my ex was unfaithful, at least physically, but I've read so much here about the lying and cheating by  BPD ex's that I'm wondering if, at the very least, there were some precursors.

Here are things that stand out:



  • Early on when we were dating she got drunk and had a crying fit.  When I asked what was bothering her she went on about how brilliant and talented her troubled, alcoholic ex. was.  This was someone who called her every vile name you can think of and allegedly threatened her when we first started seeing each other.  Incidentally, that nearly deep sixed our relationship at the start.


  • Found out midway through our relationship that said ex. would still call her sometimes, threaten to kill himself, etc.  She was indulging these calls, which I didn't like.  I asked her to not communicate with him.  She didn't want to change her cell phone number, but agreed to not take calls from him anymore.  Said something which really stuck in my mind about there being something compelling about the pain of that past relationship.  Wow.  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  


  • Seemed to get a lot of calls that she wouldn't take, just let go to voicemail.  She had very few friends, and she'd take calls from them or family in my presence.   


  • Always seemed a little secretive about calls / texts / emails she was getting.


  • Teased me about other women at work, or in outside clubs that I participate in, etc.


  • Made comments about men she worked with as being "weird looking," which came off as a little deflecting.


  • Made comment about one of her parents who is now remarried and never has eyes for another.  She admired that this parent is ever faithful.


  • Made comment about her other parent, who I also suspect as udBPD, who is married and about to divorce yet again.  Said that she didn't approve of the divorce before, but spoke with parent who is "in love" with new partner so it is OK to leave their SO.




My ex is gorgeous.  I know that she gets lots of looks and I'm sure a lot of attention from guys, but I never felt particularly worried she was out running around.  For the time we were together, we spent most of our free time together and a lot of that time, at least early on, I thought we both seemed happy. 

I'm pretty trusting.  I didn't have reason to believe she was up to anything, so I wasn't trying to catch her at anything.  But after reading so many other peoples stories, I wonder.  Was I fooling myself?  Was she already up to something?  Where these signs of infidelity to come, if nothing was happening? 





Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 06:43:07 AM »

I feel your pain. I was like you at one time, thinking she never cheated. Well, there are some things to consider in my situation, and maybe it will help you.

My ex was also gorgeous. She modeled. She knew how to flirt and seduce. A history of cheating. She reveled in men competing for her affections. She constantly craves attention. It does not matter if it is from some old man on a message board or some young guy she worked with who worshiped her like a puppy dog. She used to send him risque modeling pics and pics of herself just to get his attention, feedback, praises. She even talked about me (and our sexual escapades) in the emails to tease and taunt the guy. Did she ever screw him? From the old emails, it seems the answer is no. But who knows? She had a previous long term r/s with her married boss before I came along. Once we were done, she resumed this. Did she cheat on me? Who knows?

There were plenty of guys she turned down. Models and photographers who would email her and she would turn down. She would tell them I'm taken or I have a bf. She looked down on guys staring at her, etc. BUT, she loved the attention. She would brag to me (and others) how some guy bought her coffee for her at the 7-11. How some guy she worked with loved her pathetically. Etc. Normal women DO NOT try to make their mates jealous by telling them this all the time.

I guess my point is, these are people that can not be trusted. They do not trust those around them or even themselves. They have this distorted view of the world. Everyone cheats. So, why have a person like this in our lives? These are the soap opera, dramatic women.

Like my T told me, even if she didn't cheat on you, SHE WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY. It's in her nature.
Logged
EnglishBob

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 07:00:06 AM »

I get/got the same stories all the time - this guy texted her and that guy wanted to take her out and some other guy was openly flirting with her in the presence of his g/f... .and boy the friends requests she would get on fb... .   

Do they tell us this because we would marvel at them and love them even more ? As to say: look at what good a catch I am ?

Here's an interesting question/observation though - C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

Last but not least I wonder if the cheating diminishes over time or stops alltogether, as the BPD symptoms are supposed to subside with age ?...

Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2010, 07:14:36 AM »

I get/got the same stories all the time - this guy texted her and that guy wanted to take her out and some other guy was openly flirting with her in the presence of his g/f... .and boy the friends requests she would get on fb... .   

Do they tell us this because we would marvel at them and love them even more ? As to say: look at what good a catch I am ?

Here's an interesting question/observation though - C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

Last but not least I wonder if the cheating diminishes over time or stops alltogether, as the BPD symptoms are supposed to subside with age ?...

They want to make us jealous as a control technique. It's like "look at all the men waiting for me so don't stop paying attention to me or screw up." It keeps us guessing and off balanced. It allows them to feel more desirable, loved, wanted in our eyes. It makes them feel better about themselves. Selfish and self serving as always. Remember, it's about THEM.
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 07:31:42 AM »

I feel your pain. I was like you at one time, thinking she never cheated. Well, there are some things to consider in my situation, and maybe it will help you.

My ex was also gorgeous. She modeled. She knew how to flirt and seduce. A history of cheating. She reveled in men competing for her affections. She constantly craves attention. It does not matter if it is from some old man on a message board or some young guy she worked with who worshiped her like a puppy dog. She used to send him risque modeling pics and pics of herself just to get his attention, feedback, praises. She even talked about me (and our sexual escapades) in the emails to tease and taunt the guy. Did she ever screw him? From the old emails, it seems the answer is no. But who knows? She had a previous long term r/s with her married boss before I came along. Once we were done, she resumed this. Did she cheat on me? Who knows?

There were plenty of guys she turned down. Models and photographers who would email her and she would turn down. She would tell them I'm taken or I have a bf. She looked down on guys staring at her, etc. BUT, she loved the attention. She would brag to me (and others) how some guy bought her coffee for her at the 7-11. How some guy she worked with loved her pathetically. Etc. Normal women DO NOT try to make their mates jealous by telling them this all the time.

I guess my point is, these are people that can not be trusted. They do not trust those around them or even themselves. They have this distorted view of the world. Everyone cheats. So, why have a person like this in our lives? These are the soap opera, dramatic women.

Like my T told me, even if she didn't cheat on you, SHE WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY. It's in her nature.

Yeah, mine didn't model, but I think seriously could have.  Even women asked her if she was a model, and I think she enjoyed the attention.  I don't know if mine cheated, but she certainly had the opportunity if she wanted to. 

AG: Do the things I listed remind you of your experience?  In retrospect, did you see some things like this that gave inkling that something was up?  I know for me, I'm only wondering about these things in hindsight.

Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 07:39:12 AM »

Yeah Foggy, I suspected things. I never fully trusted her because of her past actions and the making me jealous crap. I still look back and don't know for sure. I am pretty positive she cheated with her boss though. Not as a continuous thing, but once in awhile I'm sure. It makes me sad. She will do this to the next guy and the next guy... .

It's who they are. Their nature.
Logged
EnglishBob

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 07:45:08 AM »

I get/got the same stories all the time - this guy texted her and that guy wanted to take her out and some other guy was openly flirting with her in the presence of his g/f... .and boy the friends requests she would get on fb... .   

Do they tell us this because we would marvel at them and love them even more ? As to say: look at what good a catch I am ?

Here's an interesting question/observation though - C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

Last but not least I wonder if the cheating diminishes over time or stops alltogether, as the BPD symptoms are supposed to subside with age ?...

They want to make us jealous as a control technique. It's like "look at all the men waiting for me so don't stop paying attention to me or screw up." It keeps us guessing and off balanced. It allows them to feel more desirable, loved, wanted in our eyes. It makes them feel better about themselves. Selfish and self serving as always. Remember, it's about THEM.

So by that rational, using the tools as handed to us here and considering they behave (and thus need to be treated) as children, if we would stop reacting to this jealous-making, it stops being a control technique and they would stop doing it ?
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 07:47:30 AM »

I get/got the same stories all the time - this guy texted her and that guy wanted to take her out and some other guy was openly flirting with her in the presence of his g/f... .and boy the friends requests she would get on fb... .   

Do they tell us this because we would marvel at them and love them even more ? As to say: look at what good a catch I am ?

Here's an interesting question/observation though - C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

Last but not least I wonder if the cheating diminishes over time or stops alltogether, as the BPD symptoms are supposed to subside with age ?...

They want to make us jealous as a control technique. It's like "look at all the men waiting for me so don't stop paying attention to me or screw up." It keeps us guessing and off balanced. It allows them to feel more desirable, loved, wanted in our eyes. It makes them feel better about themselves. Selfish and self serving as always. Remember, it's about THEM.

So by that rational, using the tools as handed to us here and considering they behave (and thus need to be treated) as children, if we would stop reacting to this jealous-making, it stops being a control technique and they would stop doing it ?

I do not think they would stop, I think they would pout and withdraw. I did not act too jealous but she knew it got to me. That was the reaction they want. Think of the high school girl trying to get attention. Hell, she still does it. After we broke up, she was on the model website message boards saying things to get me jealous and angry when she knew I was there.
Logged
strings
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced in 2014 after a four year battle.
Posts: 132


« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 08:47:22 AM »

So by that rational, using the tools as handed to us here and considering they behave (and thus need to be treated) as children, if we would stop reacting to this jealous-making, it stops being a control technique and they would stop doing it ?

I tried this technique when my ex left the house and spent the summer with her AP.  Didn't work.  She would find any chink I had during this time to exploit.  Strange numbers on the phone, phrases I would say during rare conversations, ignoring her calls, leaving when she would come by... .all the things NC was helping me with, she grew more and more angry.  I had broken away from her control.  This would make her show up at 5 in the morning without notice, probably checking to see if I had a girl over for the night.

She didn't like the non-reaction I was having, so she would step things up to get one.  At times she succeeded, mostly she didn't.  It was damn hard not reacting, but I had to do it for me.  Too bad it didn't make a difference.  She was on her honeymoon, and not a damn thing was going to change that.


Excerpt
My ex is gorgeous.  I know that she gets lots of looks and I'm sure a lot of attention from guys, but I never felt particularly worried she was out running around.  For the time we were together, we spent most of our free time together and a lot of that time, at least early on, I thought we both seemed happy.

I'm pretty trusting.  I didn't have reason to believe she was up to anything, so I wasn't trying to catch her at anything.  But after reading so many other peoples stories, I wonder.  Was I fooling myself?  Was she already up to something?  Where these signs of infidelity to come, if nothing was happening? 

Mine used to say all the same things to get my goat up.  She needed validation from me at all times of the day and night.  She would make sure to remind me of what all these guys were doing to get her attention.  I had trusted her.  I used to occasionally stop in at her work to see her, and she'd be wearing her 1 carat rock, so I knew she wasn't taking it off.  At that time anyway.  I had stopped being sexually attracted to her because of the systematic dismantling of my self-esteem and self-worth. She held that against me with even more rage attacks and criticizing. "If you don't take of business, somebody else will."  Yet, she still came home at night to a hot dinner and a warm bed.

The point is, right up until they have the affair, they will give you the impression all is well and trusting in the fidelity arena.  Then it just happens.  Watch out for signs of never leaving her phone out in the open, putting it face down when around you, adding the passcode to it, always, always, always texting. Not answering her phone when you call it, seeing how often she has to charge it, getting dressed up more sexily than usual, more esthetic visits, being supersupersuper-nice to you, different ping- and ringtones (try calling or texting the phone where you can hear it and see what your tone is, then you can determine if she has different tones from different people, or just one other in particular - mine had a home ringtone, a default for everyone else, and one in particular for her AP).  They will start buying you more gifts (and use that against you later Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)).  Pretty much anything that is out of the ordinary.  For if you look long enough at your BPD partner while you were in bliss, they have routines.  Look for changes in those routines.  Whatever they accuse you of  (too much time on computer/FB for example) in scaring up their suspicions of cheating on them, is likely what they are doing to cheat on you.

Her NPD/HPD mother later accused me of stalking her daughter, just because I stopped in on the way home from work once every few days to see her.  LOL
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 01:46:09 PM »

Yeah Foggy, I suspected things. I never fully trusted her because of her past actions and the making me jealous crap. I still look back and don't know for sure. I am pretty positive she cheated with her boss though. Not as a continuous thing, but once in awhile I'm sure. It makes me sad. She will do this to the next guy and the next guy... .

It's who they are. Their nature.

Sorry to hear that AG.  That is sad.  I don't know that anything happened with my ex. but given the phone calls from her ex., some of the things she said, and her emotional instability, I think there was potential.  With her talking about how it was OK for her parent to leave their SO, just because they found somebody they "loved" I thought I heard alarm bells.  Maybe I was reading too much, but it felt like she was rationalizing some of her reasoning past or present.  As I think you said about their view on cheating, for me it sounded like "everybody trades in when the new car smell is gone." 

I'm glad I'm out of that r/s. 
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 01:58:52 PM »

The point is, right up until they have the affair, they will give you the impression all is well and trusting in the fidelity arena.  Then it just happens.  Watch out for signs of never leaving her phone out in the open, putting it face down when around you, adding the passcode to it, always, always, always texting. Not answering her phone when you call it, seeing how often she has to charge it, getting dressed up more sexily than usual, more esthetic visits, being supersupersuper-nice to you, different ping- and ringtones (try calling or texting the phone where you can hear it and see what your tone is, then you can determine if she has different tones from different people, or just one other in particular - mine had a home ringtone, a default for everyone else, and one in particular for her AP).  They will start buying you more gifts (and use that against you later Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)).  Pretty much anything that is out of the ordinary.  For if you look long enough at your BPD partner while you were in bliss, they have routines.  Look for changes in those routines.  Whatever they accuse you of  (too much time on computer/FB for example) in scaring up their suspicions of cheating on them, is likely what they are doing to cheat on you.

Interesting.  Think I was seeing some of this.
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 02:00:28 PM »

Here's an interesting question/observation though - C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

Don't know if mine cheated or not, but for what it's worth, I'd classify her as behaving mostly like a waif.
Logged
2010
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 808


« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 09:32:31 PM »

Excerpt
C. Lawson in her book divided the BPD mothers into 4 types (Waif, Witch, Hermit, Queen). Is the Queen the typical cheating type ?

No. The Queen attaches herself to a King and seeks control. The Queen is concerned with her power gained from seeking control of the King. Mind you, these archetypes dont have to be gender specific. There are also Men who also fit the bill for this archetype. That is why, much of what has been written about attachment disorders follow these "self" archetypes- for instance, a narcissist has an inverted narcissist or "closet" narcissist for a support structure that they are attached to.  Much of the dependency disorders follow this symbiotic, binary system of two. King and Queen. Waif and Rescuer. Witch vs. Witch and Hermit /Hermit. (P.s. You're not going to get a hermit out of the house unless they want to go.)

For the most part, Waifs are the active seekers of reward. Waifs are the products of learned helplessness. They wander aimlessly until they get in trouble, either purposefully or accidentally. Waifs "rely on the kindness of strangers"- In fact, Tennessee Williams wrote a waif into the message of "Streetcar named Desire," with his character of Blanche Dubois.  "The reference to the streetcar called Desire—providing the aura of New Orleans geography—is symbolic. Blanche not only has to travel on a streetcar route named ":)esire" to reach Stella's home but her desire acts as an irrepressible force throughout the play—she can only hang on as her desires lead her... ." www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxGN29njs3Q In this case, in the end scene- it's a rewarding rescuer and she climbs into his car and drives away from the "family" who watches incredulously.

Waifs are more likely to go where they sense reward. They usually get into trouble because they dont think things through. Getting into a car with a complete stranger is a perfect example.

Hermits are the Borderlines without friends. Hermits are what the DSM-IV calls "Schizoid." Many Borderlines are diagnosed with Schizoid disorder.  "In session, the schizoid individual will usually transference-act-out the defensive libidinal master/slave unit of connection. The therapist will notice that the schizoid patient, propelled by his internalized master/slave unit, will obediently follow the therapist’s rules, but will tend to reject or avoid any kind of dependency that conflicts with his or her posture of self containment and self-sufficiency, and the lonely but safe road of going it alone." ~Masterson (That is to say, Hermit behavior has one or two key relationships that they recycle and revolve around, keeping them transfixed-much like the Queen, but failing grandiosity.)

"Initially, the therapist can experience a pattern as Borderline compliance or Closet Narcissistic idealization.  Therapy consists of idealizing and valuing the therapist." ~Masterson. (In other words, a Borderline Queen who responds to the therapist as King- and seeks to gain acceptance from him/her. Failing that, they split the therapist into bad.)

"These patterns stand in stark contrast to those of the Borderline patient who will often try to bend the frame, and lean heavily on the therapist while transference-acting-out helplessness and hopelessness... ." (That is to say, a Waif.)

Logged
David Dare
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: broke up in 10-2009
Posts: 836


« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 05:32:55 AM »

Interesting topic.  I was never jealous of my ex and this seemed very frustrating to her.  I kept telling her that she'll either be with me or she won't.  I don't fight for affection. 

Although I'm sure she tried to make me jealous numerous times and I was just oblivious to it, there's one that stands out.  We were at the laundromat and some guy took a broad glance at her a$$.  I was like, "That dude wants you baby" and she was like "So you DO get jealous".  Umm... .no, I just watched him stare at your a$$.  She couldn't understand how that didn't bother me.  I guess I'm just confident that regard.

What did stand out to me regularly, though, was her expressed concern over my fidelity.  She constantly expressed worry that I would cheat on her.  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)   and then, she cheated.  Projection 101
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2010, 06:00:56 AM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.
Logged
EnglishBob

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 06:51:35 AM »

Well, I was not jealous in the past - until my ex-w (non BPD) started cheating on me and eventually, our marriage ended.

Funny thing is, she now lives with the guy she said she didn't leave me for Smiling (click to insert in post)

Anyway, so yea ever since my divorce I've been more alert for that type of stuff... .which is exactly what my xBPDgf did/does.

Except for the last few months our r/s was never defined as a real steady thing - which meant she went out, saw other guys from time to time - and then she would hint about it, like a bad girl that did something wrong, wants to tell her dad but doesn't dare to... .

She was always honest about it is my impression - dunno why. I've read somewhere that BPD's are brutally honest (when they're not fabricating things) - can't remember where though... Was this another testing-the-boundaries thing or was she just unable to stay away from other men ?... Think a bit of both... .sadly.
Logged
bluelotus9
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 03:13:07 PM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.

My ex would say exactly the same. She cheated on me 2 months prior to the end of our interaction, and she told me her ex husband wanted to check the paternity of her youngest son, so this was obviously a behaviour pattern (her son is now 17!)

Cheers, Blue... .
Logged
Jgravitt

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 37


« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 08:46:14 PM »

I caught my exBPDgf talking to her ex husband's third wife's ex husband... .can you follow that? Many times! The original contact dealt with the kids. My ex has 2 girls and the dude has 1 girl. I thought it was a good idea to have a talking r/s to keep up with what was going on in the "other" house... .my exBPDgf ex husbands house... .there were some issues.

I would catch them talking and she would be talking and laughing in that "lure you in" tone and giggling like a "school girl." When I ques. her about giving me some attn like that... .she got defensive. One time I was out of town. I talked to her early in the evening @7pm. I needed to go to bed early b/c I was getting up very early the next day. She said she would call me back in a little while so she and the kids could eat dinner. i started calling @930. She wouldnt ans the house phone and kept kicking her cell phone into vm. At 1100pm I had my neighbor go knock on our door. She had been talking to the guy the whole time. I heard one of the kids ask if they were ever going to eat dinner when I finally got her on the phone. When asked she said "he is just so nice to talk to. It feels like I have always known him. He is just a great friend!" Yeah right! I don't know if they ever slept together but now that we are broken up I suspect it happened.

It is all about them and any attn they can get. And they are interested in the attn being given... .NOT the person.

Jgravitt 
Logged
confused101
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 131


« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 08:53:40 PM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.

LOL mine said the same, are you sure we weren't dating the same BPD? Funnily enough mine would say deeply sexist comments about men (we should all be action men and never show emotion) whilst at the same time always stating her immense feminist credentials.
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2010, 06:28:17 AM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.

LOL mine said the same, are you sure we weren't dating the same BPD? Funnily enough mine would say deeply sexist comments about men (we should all be action men and never show emotion) whilst at the same time always stating her immense feminist credentials.

Yes, mine became

1. equal rights for women

2. against domestic abuse

3. independent and not needy

4. does not need a man to save her

****when it suited her needs at the time!

Other times,she was the same old gf. All men are this. All men want is that. It is how she saw the world. Men rape. Men use. Men just want women for sex. So she molded her beliefs very early on (after her rape I guess at 13). She continued to adopt this world view to include that no one is trustworthy and how to use HER sex to get what she wants and manipulate.

And what did she use her sex for over the years?

To make bf's jealous

To get revenge on people

To prove a point

To feel worthy and valid

To get material items like shoes, clothes, money, landscaping (yes you read that right), trips

To have job security

To maintain control

etc. etc. etc.

She will be like this for the rest of her life.
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 03:54:28 PM »

Seems like a lot of people talk about projection on them by their BPD re: cheating.

I don't know if this is projecting, but did you see anything where they talk about others behavior, and maybe it seemed like something they were thinking about doing?  Rationalizing it?  Something like:  "Janet's leaving Joe, but it's OK because she met some new guy on her vacation and she is in love."   The ex said some things like that.  Struck me as a little strange at the time, and afterward I kind of wondered if she was rationalizing out loud why it's OK to give me the heave-ho. 

Logged
Benny
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 911


« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 05:21:25 PM »

This is personal and kind of hard to put into words but the last few times ex and I were intimate she made sure that things were concluded,if you know what I mean, without actual intercourse happening.

This had happened a few times over the 7 year r/s and Ive learned that it happened when she was seeing one of her FWB's and having sex with him.

So in her mind she wasnt cheating on him with me because no actual intercourse took place and it also served its purpose for her as it kept me hooked in and there to be used as a convenience when the FWB wasnt available or things looked like or were going badly with him.

She would say she hadnt had sex with anyone for ages and the reason for it ending before actual sex took place was because she was just too excited and I believed her as she is very hypersexual.

Infidelity doesnt bother at all as long as she gets what she wants,no morals at all or sense of decency.
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 06:11:10 AM »

They really don't have morals, empathy, remorse. It just was not developed.

My exgf:

1. cheated on her steady bf in high school for revenge (he slapped her around a lot) - she screwed other guys, his brother, etc. Justified to her.

2. cheated on her ex husband before they were married because he was out of state and she was horny - some stranger - justified to her.

3. cheated on the "first love of her life" in college. He was perfect for her except he had a thumb sized dick - so she slept with his best friend all throughout their 6 month r/s. It is the closest I ever saw her have remorse for what she did. Not quite though. She justified it by saying she needed it.

I am sure she cheated on her ex husband when they were married. He accused her many times of sleeping with her boss. Now, I know that she had a r/s with her boss for years. Hmmmm. And whenever I got suspicious or asked questions, I was accused by her of being like her ex husband - controlling, jealous, a snoop, etc. They really know how to play us, don't they?

And of course she bragged about cheating on the boss as well (when he was this mysterious suitor of hers, not her boss she swore to me), laughed when she said he could not get it up when he found out she was with me (we could see other people when we first dated). No remorse. No empathy. Cruel.

How many more do I not know about? She cheated on us all. Why would I be any different? Her excuse? Oh, she was young back then. Yeah, right. She cheated on me as well when it was good for her needs.

"I swear I was never with him when we were together!"

Hmmmm. Hard to believe. And she kept using those exact words. It probably meant that I was not there or IN HER MIND we were not together. Just like on our break, she was with him. I caught her and she lied and lied, finally admitting it to me when I gave her back her things.

"In my mind, we were broken up already."

Sick. Sick person. Sick people. How does she live with herself? Oh yeah, that's right, no conscience.

Selfish, lying, cheating hit_.
Logged
2idealistic
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 208



« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 07:19:34 AM »

Foggy:

Unfortunately, your observations and experiences with your ex are almost exactly what I experienced--especially the obsession with and excessive number of mysterious number of income calls and texts--to the point that I eventually confronted her (in a diplomatic and supportive way) about the collective toll such distractions would take on our relationship, not to mention the time it took away from her finding time for herself as a single, working mother.

The net result is that she was indeed cheating with one (claimed that it was "temporary insanity" because she had gone to a very "dark place", but she was also playing three other men by phone and text under my nose.  This confrontation eventually led to painting me black because I found out her true nature as BPD (but didn't use that language at the time). 

I don't want to speculate, but I suspect that because of the bottomless pit of need for your ex, like mine and so many BPD's (mine was certainly a waif), it's entirely possible that she did indeed cheat on you, if not physically, certainly emotionally.

It's a difficult and painful realization, especially since my own ex's greatest hypocritical issue was about "trust."  Eventually, when she revealed her childhood sexual abuse, I understood, but my logical mind still can't comprehend how, if loss of trust is your greatest fear, you would intentionally destroy a relationship with a man who pledged and practiced loyalty, fidelity, and adoration.
Logged
2idealistic
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 208



« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2010, 07:27:07 AM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.

LOL mine said the same, are you sure we weren't dating the same BPD? Funnily enough mine would say deeply sexist comments about men (we should all be action men and never show emotion) whilst at the same time always stating her immense feminist credentials.

Yes, mine became

1. equal rights for women

2. against domestic abuse

3. independent and not needy

4. does not need a man to save her

****when it suited her needs at the time!

Other times,she was the same old gf. All men are this. All men want is that. It is how she saw the world. Men rape. Men use. Men just want women for sex. So she molded her beliefs very early on (after her rape I guess at 13). She continued to adopt this world view to include that no one is trustworthy and how to use HER sex to get what she wants and manipulate.

And what did she use her sex for over the years?

To make bf's jealous

To get revenge on people

To prove a point

To feel worthy and valid

To get material items like shoes, clothes, money, landscaping (yes you read that right), trips

To have job security

To maintain control

etc. etc. etc.

She will be like this for the rest of her life.

ArtistGuy:

Becoming convinced that our ex's were twin daughters, as mine was the victime of childhood sexual abuse, and I've now realized that as the Waif she used sex in all these ways, including trying to determine how she could sell her infidelity as date rape after she'd had too much to drink/possibly been given some medication (how did you wind up on anything resembling a date at your house in the first place?) and then decided that she wasn't raped (or had sex on that particular occasion--but did later?); instead, I "talked her into the story of date rape" when questioning her about all the seemingly erratic behaviors and emotions that led her toward destruction of our relationship.
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2010, 07:27:41 AM »

Foggy:

Unfortunately, your observations and experiences with your ex are almost exactly what I experienced--especially the obsession with and excessive number of mysterious number of income calls and texts--to the point that I eventually confronted her (in a diplomatic and supportive way) about the collective toll such distractions would take on our relationship, not to mention the time it took away from her finding time for herself as a single, working mother.

The net result is that she was indeed cheating with one (claimed that it was "temporary insanity" because she had gone to a very "dark place", but she was also playing three other men by phone and text under my nose.  This confrontation eventually led to painting me black because I found out her true nature as BPD (but didn't use that language at the time). 

I don't want to speculate, but I suspect that because of the bottomless pit of need for your ex, like mine and so many BPD's (mine was certainly a waif), it's entirely possible that she did indeed cheat on you, if not physically, certainly emotionally.

It's a difficult and painful realization, especially since my own ex's greatest hypocritical issue was about "trust."  Eventually, when she revealed her childhood sexual abuse, I understood, but my logical mind still can't comprehend how, if loss of trust is your greatest fear, you would intentionally destroy a relationship with a man who pledged and practiced loyalty, fidelity, and adoration.

A great post.

Same here. My ex's biggest fear was that I would cheat on her. Her ex husband cheated on her and destroyed her self esteem (which was gone far earlier I know now). I was faithful and she always said she knew I was. But she always thought, deep down IMO, that I would one day. She thought ALL MEN CHEATED. ALL MEN WANTED was sex. This was her view on life. She thought we would never end up together and she would be alone (even after our five years we spent together).

I believe since they have these strange thought patterns, they really see no point in staying faithful. Almost like some kind of sick defense. Mix that with their "everything is about them and their needs" mantra, I see why they think they are entitled to cheat. They don't even consider it cheating.
Logged
ArtistGuy70
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 856


« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2010, 07:31:36 AM »

Mine would say things like:

"All men cheat."

"All guys just want to get their dick wet."

This was her view of men. Nothing I said could make a dent in that.

LOL mine said the same, are you sure we weren't dating the same BPD? Funnily enough mine would say deeply sexist comments about men (we should all be action men and never show emotion) whilst at the same time always stating her immense feminist credentials.

Yes, mine became

1. equal rights for women

2. against domestic abuse

3. independent and not needy

4. does not need a man to save her

****when it suited her needs at the time!

Other times,she was the same old gf. All men are this. All men want is that. It is how she saw the world. Men rape. Men use. Men just want women for sex. So she molded her beliefs very early on (after her rape I guess at 13). She continued to adopt this world view to include that no one is trustworthy and how to use HER sex to get what she wants and manipulate.

And what did she use her sex for over the years?

To make bf's jealous

To get revenge on people

To prove a point

To feel worthy and valid

To get material items like shoes, clothes, money, landscaping (yes you read that right), trips

To have job security

To maintain control

etc. etc. etc.

She will be like this for the rest of her life.

ArtistGuy:

Becoming convinced that our ex's were twin daughters, as mine was the victime of childhood sexual abuse, and I've now realized that as the Waif she used sex in all these ways, including trying to determine how she could sell her infidelity as date rape after she'd had too much to drink/possibly been given some medication (how did you wind up on anything resembling a date at your house in the first place?) and then decided that she wasn't raped (or had sex on that particular occasion--but did later?); instead, I "talked her into the story of date rape" when questioning her about all the seemingly erratic behaviors and emotions that led her toward destruction of our relationship.

OH GOD. They were separated at birth.

She had this incident happen in the first 6 months of our r/s. She went over a photographer's house she knew for years. He was this short, fat guy. She drank a lot with him during the shoot (I told her not to) and he ended up performing oral on her. I found out, seeing her emails. Even in the emails to him, she did not remember what transpired or how she got home. I broke up with her. Within a week, she and I were back together. She thought he used a roofie on her. I accepted this and even helped her come to this conclusion. I don't know why I did that. Now, this guy has a bad rep since then and we found out other things about him. A classless jerk but it's a case of her putting herself in harm's way and then blaming others completely. No taking responsibility.
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2010, 05:01:24 PM »

Foggy:

Unfortunately, your observations and experiences with your ex are almost exactly what I experienced--especially the obsession with and excessive number of mysterious number of income calls and texts--to the point that I eventually confronted her (in a diplomatic and supportive way) about the collective toll such distractions would take on our relationship, not to mention the time it took away from her finding time for herself as a single, working mother.

The net result is that she was indeed cheating with one (claimed that it was "temporary insanity" because she had gone to a very "dark place", but she was also playing three other men by phone and text under my nose.  This confrontation eventually led to painting me black because I found out her true nature as BPD (but didn't use that language at the time). 

I don't want to speculate, but I suspect that because of the bottomless pit of need for your ex, like mine and so many BPD's (mine was certainly a waif), it's entirely possible that she did indeed cheat on you, if not physically, certainly emotionally.

It's a difficult and painful realization, especially since my own ex's greatest hypocritical issue was about "trust."  Eventually, when she revealed her childhood sexual abuse, I understood, but my logical mind still can't comprehend how, if loss of trust is your greatest fear, you would intentionally destroy a relationship with a man who pledged and practiced loyalty, fidelity, and adoration.

Hey, 2idealistic. 

Thanks for your post.  It's actually good to know that my doubts match your experience.  "Going to a very dark place."  That rings a bell.  I don't know if she cheated physically or not.  I'm not sure if I'd be happier knowing for sure now or not, but her need was also a bottomless pit, one I got sucked into.

So on the subject, do you think it is emotional infidelity for her to secretly keep in touch with her ex?  I admit I felt betrayed when I found out.  She was, at the least, a shoulder to cry on for her ex.  Someone who beat the hell out of her and threatened to destroy her and our relationship. I wouldn't have had regular contact with an ex without letting her know, and I sure as hell would have let her know if they were coming to me crying and threatening to end their life.  I don't know why I didn't leave after that.  She said that he was like family, a good guy, and you can't just abandon people who are like family.  I think I was shocked, and maybe when she sheepishly admitted she was attracted to the pain of the relationship I also felt sorry for her.  There I went trying to save someone again. 
Logged
2idealistic
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 208



« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2010, 08:42:34 PM »

Foggy:

I absolutely felt that the emotional infidelity that my ex committed was, in some ways, just as devastating as the one known physical infidelity that I discovered and that she finally--in a weak, but clear moment--admitted to devoid of the elaborate and convoluted rationalization about her "temporary insanity" during which she "went to a very dark place."  For example, after the same fling hacked into her emails and confronted her about her infidelity to him I finally realized that she had neither told him that she and I were in a committed relationship, but instead, had explained my existence as my "hitting on her" and her feeling that she needed to not rebuff me outright for fear that it would jeopardize her job.  Nonsense of course because we had been in a relationship for two years before I helped get her a job in my workplace.  After her lover confronted her in a rather volatile way, she sought refuge from me of course, and I was to foggy (no pun intended) to put all the pieces together to understand that when she characterized him as an obsessive stalker from whom she "feared for [her] life" (which she also told to another co-worker) and then took measures to change the locks on her doors.  Didn't make sense at all to me that after I helped her craft an appropriate cease and desist letter to him, she began to re-engage because "I know his type, and you have to ease them down from rejection or they become dangerous."  Well, funny that I learned in the last days of our relationship that the elaborate "I may have been drugged and I had too much to drink and was date raped" (at her house after she had invited several folks over and he was the last to leave) actually was a "couple of weekends in October" when I was out of town visiting my children.  Later, after my struggle to forgive and move on, I disovered that she was sexting at least three other men (I read the texts and confronted her about them), one of whom was her now married boyfriend of over 20 years ago.  The texts were very explicit, and I was probably equally devastated as if there had been physical confrontation.  So, for me, the emotional infidelity became the real evidence that I didn't matter at all, despite all of her previous protestations about not wanting to lose me.
Logged
Foggy
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 155


« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2010, 05:15:50 AM »

Foggy:

I absolutely felt that the emotional infidelity that my ex committed was, in some ways, just as devastating as the one known physical infidelity that I discovered and that she finally--in a weak, but clear moment--admitted to devoid of the elaborate and convoluted rationalization about her "temporary insanity" during which she "went to a very dark place."  For example, after the same fling hacked into her emails and confronted her about her infidelity to him I finally realized that she had neither told him that she and I were in a committed relationship, but instead, had explained my existence as my "hitting on her" and her feeling that she needed to not rebuff me outright for fear that it would jeopardize her job.  Nonsense of course because we had been in a relationship for two years before I helped get her a job in my workplace.  After her lover confronted her in a rather volatile way, she sought refuge from me of course, and I was to foggy (no pun intended) to put all the pieces together to understand that when she characterized him as an obsessive stalker from whom she "feared for [her] life" (which she also told to another co-worker) and then took measures to change the locks on her doors.  Didn't make sense at all to me that after I helped her craft an appropriate cease and desist letter to him, she began to re-engage because "I know his type, and you have to ease them down from rejection or they become dangerous."  Well, funny that I learned in the last days of our relationship that the elaborate "I may have been drugged and I had too much to drink and was date raped" (at her house after she had invited several folks over and he was the last to leave) actually was a "couple of weekends in October" when I was out of town visiting my children.  Later, after my struggle to forgive and move on, I disovered that she was sexting at least three other men (I read the texts and confronted her about them), one of whom was her now married boyfriend of over 20 years ago.  The texts were very explicit, and I was probably equally devastated as if there had been physical confrontation.  So, for me, the emotional infidelity became the real evidence that I didn't matter at all, despite all of her previous protestations about not wanting to lose me.

I'm starting to wonder if I was dating the triplet to ArtistGuy and your SOs.  Maybe I just didn't get to see all the way behind the curtain, or I wasn't with my ex. long enough to see some of the things you guys did.  The drinking too much and then going to a "dark place" rings a bell, and this whole maintaining emotional (or more?) connections to an ex, secretive texts, etc.  I hear you about the emotional infidelity being rough.  Maybe I just had my head in the sand.  Maybe there was other stuff going on too.  She pulled back after her push at the end of our relationship, but not that hard.  Realizing how needy and screwed up she was, I'm a little surprised there wasn't a little more protesting when she realized her source of constant feeding was about to disappear.  All this and her behavior when we were together makes me wonder if there weren't others she had waiting in the wings.  I don't want any further contact with her, so I may never really know for sure.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!