do they think they can do whatever they like and be forgiven

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

what is it about these people do they think they can do what ever they like to you and you are just suppose to take it do they think that they can pick you up and drop you when ever its suits them im in nc 16 days and im enjoying it but i see time and time again on the boards that they contact you when they feel like it and this worries me whats it all about is it there conscience do they feel guilty or is it the push pull cycle mine gave me the silent treatment sometimes for weeks but now i left and im giving him the silent treatment and feeling so much better but with xmas just around the corner and no new victim for him will he stay nc

[betsy boo 87]

what is it about these people do they think they can do what ever they like to you and you are just suppose to take it do they think that they can pick you up and drop you when ever its suits them im in nc 16 days and im enjoying it but i see time and time again on the boards that they contact you when they feel like it and this worries me whats it all about is it there conscience do they feel guilty or is it the push pull cycle mine gave me the silent treatment sometimes for weeks but now i left and im giving him the silent treatment and feeling so much better but with xmas just around the corner and no new victim for him will he stay nc

[Butterfly03]

":)o they think they can do whatever they like and be forgiven?"

Ofcourse they do cause they NEVER do anything wrong its always your fault remember... .they have no boundaries they have no morals... .

will you hear from him... .will he try to /re engage... .more than likely if he has no one to feed his emotional needs... .this is where you need to stay strong stay silent stay NC and think of yourself first and look after number one... .you say you are feeling better after 16 days NC imagine how you will feel after one month contact and if you stay strong before you know it it will be two then three then four!   Look after yourself and enjoy the feeling of getting rid of negativity in your world 

Take care,

Butterfly

[2010]

do they think they can do whatever they like and be forgiven

This question has two parts to it but the answer really depends on the decisions of two people. What you really need to ask yourself is the acceptance of an action and the outcome of your reaction to that action.  :)oes it stop the behavior or does it enable the behavior to destroy you?

":)o they think they can do whatever they like and be forgiven?" More than likely they do- only because the majority of the disorder's actions involve other people. Compulsive behavior needs a reward.  People are quite useful in that regard. Borderlines choose people who are forgiving. They choose people who have been trained from childhood to overlook abuse or that are "fixers." Borderlines use inconsistency to deflect your idea of consistent behavior- they swing back and forth on a pendulum. That inconsistency is a repetitious compulsion of clinging/distancing that needs your forgiveness to continue. Chances are; you've already forgiven them many, many times and it never worked.

Do they think they can do whatever they like (an action) and (in your reaction) be forgiven? That is up to you. The choice is yours. You can continue to accept the behavior, overlook the abuse and return to the dysfunction for another round- or -you can seek counsel and get help for the attraction to this person who rages against you (it could be voicelessness from your childhood that attracts you to repeat this history)

Sooner or later, you're going to have to settle in to the business of getting to know yourself and why you continue to return to something that is so awful that you need it like a drug.  First you must detox. Break all contact. Stop allowing access. Find something else to do and get out and about, even if it's for a simple walk around the block. The fears will slowly subside and you'll start to feel better. Should there be any contact- do not engage. Keep your head down and keep walking. If you've had some idea that he may be dangerous, you might be right. Trust your gut. Time to put some boundaries in place- especially with yourself.  

[sparkle]

Great post, 2010! I really needed to hear this too.

[Mason06]

Sooner or later, you're going to have to settle in to the business of getting to know yourself and why you continue to return to something that is so awful that you need it like a drug.  First you must detox. Break all contact. Stop allowing access.

This is great advice.  I've been 2 months NC and I've been doing exactly that--figuring out why I stayed, why I kept going back for more.  Because of poor coping mechanisms I learned in childhood, I was too forgiving.  I'd forget about being treating poorly and try to keep a positive outlook because I just wanted to get back to the good times.

He really was like a drug.  There have been moments these past two months where I wanted just one more fix from him--one more high--to be treated nicely and feel that amazing connection just one more time.  So far I've fought the urge and can look back with pride that I haven't reached out to him.  He moved on to another relationship almost immediately this time so I doubt I'll be hearing from him again which is just as well for me.  

I'm learning and growing from this.  I left because I was no longer weak enough for him.  He has now moved on to someone just as weak as I used to be.

Stay NC and in hindsight you'll be proud and happy that you did.

[OverBoard]

I was told by my exBPDNPDbi-polargf that I didn't know what "unconditional love" meant. I was suppose to forgive and push everything under the rug and it was not to be spoken about again, as this is how she grew up.

Everytime she raised the roof, cheated, mixed meds with booze, hated me, loved me, no matter what it was... I was suppose to "sweep it under the rug and not bring it up again"... her exact words more than once.

[Blwnaway]

I was told by my exBPDNPDbi-polargf that I didn't know what "unconditional love" meant. I was suppose to forgive and push everything under the rug and it was not to be spoken about again, as this is how she grew up.

Oh yeah... .that's ringing some bells.

[The_411]

In short: Yes!

If nothing is ever your fault and someone else can always be blamed then why would you ever have to be accountable for your actions?

[roses89431]

Yes, I do. I don't think people who have BPD think they need to be forgiven ever because they did nothing wrong! There is no personal responsibility there whatsoever. Everything is always your fault, they are always the victim of you. In my experience with my ex boss, she could say and do anything she wanted to me and it was okay. If she ever did admit responsibility it was for something minor- it was never for the times when she was really abusive or when she hurt me badly.

[Rubies]

I agree with Roses, in their head they do no wrong and have no need to be forgiven.   

My BPDdh, however, when it would be pointed out to him in various counseling over the years all the crap he did that hurt us deeply would put on a great show.  On his knees, great big crocodile tears, waawaa, boohoo, soo sorry, true repentence, "PLEEEEEZE forgive me!"

Then in the privacy of the car, "I didn't mean a word of it, so get over yourself."

So after the first time of that, guess who looked like the cold fish when I would just sit their and look at him without the expected heart-melting compassionate response?   DD's response was, "I'll believe it when I see it."

This divorce is quite entertaining, even the judge is having a hard time keeping a straight face.  It's unbelievable what a BPD's version of "amicable divorce" is.


I am so glad I found this place.  We used to just call these people, "Whack."  Now they have a real name.

[seeking balance]

with xmas just around the corner and no new victim for him will he stay nc

others have addressed the main question quite thoroughly -so I wanted to take a moment to touch on NC and it is really for you not for him.  NC is only broken if you respond - the NC is yours and for you.  Stay strong, keep reading these boards and remember you are dealing with a mentally ill person.  That, for me, is the hardest thing to keep in mind - they are mentally ill, but function quite well on the surface... .this makes NC our best defense at moving on with our lives.

[lauren99]

I don't think they can put themselves in your shoes and so they cannot see the hurt they've caused... .so maybe they don't see the seriousness of what they've done to need to be forgiven... .? Even if this person does attempt to reengage contact... .it is not out of concern and care for you, it is because they need you to fill an emotional gap... .they need it to make them self feel better with no regard to your emotions. Be strong and take care of yourself... .x

[JustSaying]

Do they think they can do whatever they like and be forgiven?

I'll offer a contrarian view. I don't think they think this. The reason is I don't think they are conscious in their dysfunctional actions. They are completely emotional and reactionary, with little forethought.

My experience is limited to my wife, what T told me, and what I've read, so perhaps I'm just talking about my pwBPD and not yours. But mine can't take a drive to a new store without anxiety. She will have her entire week ruined by a stranger calling her "ma'am." Seeing a scale will throw her into an anorexic tizzy.

Because of the BPD, her anxiety becomes the family's, her ruination is shared with all of us, and her tizzy becomes ours. There's no planning or intent by her. It's a habituated response to something that stresses her and she has no clue that she's doing it or how it's coming across. She would not recognize her metaphorical reflection in the mirror even a little bit.

She does expect to be forgiven because she sees no alternative, not because she has thought this through and decided it on its merits. It's her way to cope with a world that feels out of her control. It's the only response she knows because it's all she apparently learned. That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean I have to accept it. But seeing it this way has helped me to depersonalize her behaviors and has helped me help D.

The only time I've "gotten through to her" recently is when I told her that D has at times awakened in the night and come to me because of how much she was bothered by the dysregulation. W said, "Oh my God, I had no idea it was that bad." Now that strains credulity, as if D's tears, my moving to a separate room, my turning down her advances flat, D's avoiding her weren't enough to demonstrate the extent of the problem. She seems to be able to rationalize away things that don't fit her worldview.

W thinks about things only in as much as they are a commentary on her. She does not think about the effect she has on other people, good or bad. The funny thing is, she'd say she only thinks of other people and never herself.

[juner]

I don't think people who have BPD think they need to be forgiven ever because they did nothing wrong!

This is exactly why my longtime BPDfriend went NC (and me with her). She emailed me a half-assed apology the day after she blasted me for no reason and I knew in my heart the one-line "apology" (the first one ever) would be the end of the r/s because in her mind she was forced to eat crow for something that never registered as a wrongdoing.

[Mason06]

Yes, I do. I don't think people who have BPD think they need to be forgiven ever because they did nothing wrong! There is no personal responsibility there whatsoever. Everything is always your fault, they are always the victim of you.

During our break-up conversation when I was leaving him, he told me he had forgiven me for something I had said 10 months earlier regarding how his self-esteem always seemed to be tied to my mood (we were together 15 months total, so he had been carrying this around for a long time).  I told him I had forgiven him too.  Want to know his response?  "Forgiven for what?"  My response:  "For what you said in July."  He called me a cold-hearted b**ch in July.  What's even more messed up is that when I hung up on him for calling me that, he immediately left me a voicemail and a text message trying to justify why I deserved it--because he was in reeling and in pain.

[geek64]

This question is and has been my life for the past five years. I loved what justsaying said, but I have a different experience. My BPDw has a diabolical ability to perform complex goal-directed behaviors in order to achieve her goals. Her principle tools here are manipulation and lying, both of which she is expert in (as with most BPD's I have known). In our case, my wife's level and extent of planning in order to carry out some of these deceptions has been staggering. Lies several years old are continued today as old family rugs. Nothing matters except the goal. And she will do anything--and I do mean anything--to achieve those goals. She has thought nothing of decimating me and our children with her serial cheating and is presently attempting quite actively to have me committed to the state hospital, I presume for reasons of love and money. But who would ever know? She's borderline!

She does operate on another level as well, and that has been described elsewhere--unconscious, reactionary, the 'emotion-mind' idea. Linehan, et al. This is not planned, and is less dangerous, at least so far. It does spill everywhere, as just said.

And so, yes, I believe, they do expect eternal forgiveness, irrespective of how many times they cheat, how much money they steal, or how hard they try to have you killed. It's who they are, what they do. I really believe now that mine is not neurologically capable of empathy, hence the need for constant forgiveness. It is not a healthy basis for an adult partnership, by any measure. And yet, we have stayed. The real question is... .why?

[Mystic]

Yes, they do.  

I remember my exh saying in all sincerity "I don't want a divorce, I just want a "year off" from the marriage"!  

OMG.  REALLY?  



I have a busted picker.  Seriously.  Somebody wound it too tight and all the springs are sprung.  I need to go to "choose a mate" school or something.  Or pay someone else to do it for me.  Or have to wear an ankle bracelet that notifies the authorities if I date badly again.    

[JustSaying]

I really believe now that mine is not neurologically capable of empathy,

I guess there is a wide range to the disorder, with one end of the spectrum crossing into sociopathic. I'm sorry for what you are encountering, geek. That's not my wife's behaviors, which are much more on the self-abuse (eating disorder, substance abuse, depression) side of the spectrum. Regardless of where they are on the spectrum though, we still have the right to be treated reasonably and we need to assert that right.

[Rubies]

My BPDw has a diabolical ability to perform complex goal-directed behaviors in order to achieve her goals. Her principle tools here are manipulation and lying, both of which she is expert in(as with most BPD's I have known). In our case, my wife's level and extent of planning in order to carry out some of these deceptions has been staggering.

This is my experience also, in the past with family members and currently with the husband.   

When they are being exceptionally nice to you?  They are up to something exceptionally evil to screw you over.  Kids are collateral damage.

[Melec]

Livia!  My picker's busted too! I'm retiring it for awhile. I actually wear a silver ring that looks very much like a wedding ring even though I'm single, as a tool of discouragement. I do not trust my judgment at all right now.

My experience with xbpso is similar to justsaying- he experienced crippling anxiety in the face of triggers. He would actually get physically ill. At his worst, he had zero ability to cope with normal, daily life.

His big thing (the most destructive thing) was not raging, but suicidal gestures. Running away, saying everyone was better off without him, etc. Of course, he would get ENORMOUS validation from almost everyone in response, but having seen him after one of these episodes, I don't know if that was his intentional goal. I don't know if he thought that far- he certainly did nothing to make himself comfortable or safe during these times, which seems like it would be a hallmark of a purely manipulative act. And once his perception filter was broken, it was really broken. The fear was everything, and total. Which is why, although I feel good about leaving the r/s, it's hard to hate him, because I know he's not out there living it up, meeting girls, whatever. Total hermit.

[scotlandthebrave]

Yes! My SO basically admitted that to me. I once said that what he wanted from his partner was someone that let him do whatever he pleased but would be there for him when he needed them and would never criticize or question. If ever he was caught lying or cheating he would never, never apologise. He would immediately turn the tables into a criticism of me.

On reflection, however, I worry that I enabled him and validated his bad behaviour as even when he kicked my door in and grabbed me by the throat I forgave him. I suppose in doing so I gave him the message that he could do whatever he liked and he would be forgiven. Are we all guilty of that?