Do I contact her LMFT?

[1stand10]

I'd like to get some opinions on this please.

Should I contact her T or maybe have my T contact her T?

I recently discovered my uBPDw is seeing an LMFT.  I believe that she is telling this guy what a horrible person, man and husband I've been for the past 16 years and how she is being emotionally abused.  You know, exactly what she is projecting on to me.  Based upon our history with Ts I fear that the only thing she is getting out of this counseling is validation of her projections.


My intentions aren't to simply tell my side of the story or to defend myself but to give him a sample of her behaviors backed up by my documentation.  I'm hoping for him to be able to take this information and use the best way he sees fit in his professional opinion.  Maybe then she will hear "BPD" from a professional.  I'm also prepared and willing to accept the fact that he might just assume that I have ill intentions and dismiss it as trying to influence his treatment.  My goal is to get her help so she doesn't wind up like her mother who is living with her mom after her 4th marriage failed, no job and financially ruined.  I don't want my children to see her like that or have to live with her in case she gets custody in our future divorce.

Thoughts?

[Mystic]

I don't think they can contact each other unless both individuals both expressly ask for it. 

T's are bound by all sorts of ethical and confidentiality rules, and a person's T is pretty much theirs alone. 

I understand your goals, and I believe your intentions are good, but the only person we can fix/control/change is ourselves... .

[Matt]

Yeah, I agree with Livia:  Focus on your own health and well-being, and on what will be best for the kids.

Have you decided to end the marriage?

[1stand10]

Have you decided to end the marriage?

Yes, and of recent, the feeling is mutual.

[Matt]

So what are your next steps, to take care of yourself and the kids?

[1stand10]

Unfortunately I'm still in limbo.  Until I can get away from alternating 12 hour shifts (some day/some night), I can't file for divorce and get primary custody.  There is no way for me to take care of the kids with that schedule and any court could see that. 

Like I said, I fear that her T will validate her projections on me which will give her the validation and confidence to file before I'm prepared.  If she were to file and get custody, I would at least want her T to help her so my kids don't become the object of her BPD in the absence of me. 

[Matt]

What steps can you take to get onto a different work schedule?

Do you know what the criteria are for custody in your state?

In some states, if you go for custody and she does too, a common result is 50/50, with a schedule that works for you both.

Also, you might consider filing a motion - once she files for divorce - asking the court to appoint a Custody Evaluator and require psych evaluations from both parents.  That might get her mental health issues on the table based on an objective evaluation - a test - so even if she fools her therapist it can be taken into account.

[2010]

Have you decided to end the marriage?

Yes, and of recent, the feeling is mutual.

This shouldn't be about feelings- this should be about facts.  I dont think your Wife has decided. A LMFT (Licensed Marriage Family Therapist) is in business to keep families and marriages together- otherwise they would be called LDT's, (Licensed Divorce Therapists)  At this point, it appears as though your Wife is seeing a therapist that specializes in marriage and families- which indicates a desire for help concerning marriage and family.  She could have easily gone to a personal therapist instead.

While Divorce happens to people that are in MFT, it probably isnt being recommended to your Wife unless your Wife is being physically harmed by you. For the most part, LMFT therapy consists of arbitration and goal oriented suggestions.  The LMFT will provide a series of questions that may provoke situations the client has never heard of.  How will she live after the divorce, how will she support herself? What does she want to do with her life? Does she want to go back to school? Is she a child of divorce? What does she think about divorce? Will her family be better off with divorce? All of these questions get answered and then hopefully resolved.

The goal is transference without counter-transference for support and counsel. Believe it when I say, the therapist isn't in there doing a flamefest of you. They are presenting you with marriage and family as a choice. It's up to your Wife to make her own decision- (and this indecision and clinging is one of the banes of Borderline existence.) She must decide with future consequences in mind and do so without blame for her decision.  That means staying married too.

Blame is a very easy defense mechanism to spot in therapy. The therapist doesn't have to be knowledgeable about BPD in order to see blame. Blame comes out pretty fast in marriage therapy.  It's expected.  In therapy, there are two ways of dealing with it- either by listening and allowing the blame to extinguish, or by confronting it and saying "whose fault is that?" when the blame is irrational.  Both of these responses can be difficult when three people are in the room together.

Triangulating (read definition) into MFT is sometimes expected- but it can also become a proof or validation to the therapist that the spouse has control issues. Playing the blame game with each other and triangulating (read definition) the therapist does nothing to help solve the issues at hand. It only makes them more visible and forces the hand.  This is really about being unheard.

When you get to feeling unheard, you are experiencing pain from childhood. Therapists call it "voicelessness." It's at that point that the attempt to piggyback on your Wife's therapy becomes a cry for justice. This attempt to be heard wont be heard as anything other than your control issues over how you are perceived by others.  The reality is that we cannot control the perceptions of others. I can't, you can't, the Pope can't and neither can Mother Teresa.

Take your voice, the one that wants to cry out- and get a phone book- open it and pick the first therapist you can. The voice (your voice) will be heard in your own personal therapy.  

[muddychicken]

My Ex T wanted to meet me and I told her my story and my ex apoloziged for abusing me. BP didn;t come in until my own T suggested it. I called her T and shared my opinion based on the behaviors I described to her and she said... ."I just don't see it." So I ask to you... .to what avail do you want to do this? Her life is her responsibility... .take care of yourself and your kids.

[1stand10]

2010,

Thanks for your reply.  And I thank you for taking the time to put such detail.  Often so many people jot down a few quick notes without a lot of substance.  I believe you wrote a lot of good stuff.  My replies are not a rebuttal but just my experience so please just take them at that.  I’m in no way trying to prove you are wrong. 

I dont think your Wife has decided. A LMFT (Licensed Marriage Family Therapist) is in business to keep families and marriages together- otherwise they would be called LDT's, (Licensed Divorce Therapists)

Since we are military, the rules are different on who we get to see for treatment.  My wife probably told the evaluator that we are having marital problems so they sent her to the LMFT.  I believe she didn't want to see a T or a P.  Why? I don't know, just my hunch.  She has been treated with medication for depression off and on for our whole marriage (16 yrs) and in Jan 2010, OUR counselor (MFT) from the Air Force Base said that she suffered from depression and low self-esteem but not BPD (even though I told her that is what I thought she had).  The whole thing about MFTs or MCs is that I don't trust them.  She has been able to win them over (deceive) EVERY time. 

For example, 12 years ago she made a soft suicide threat and I asked her to go to the base mental health clinic.  I said that if she didn't go then I would make the call.  So she went and deflected the suicide attempt by dropping a false accusation of DV and child neglect.  I was forced by the military to go to counseling, to the same person she reported it to.  Looking back I was counseled to be a better husband and father.  Although I was young, I made mistakes, little things that the MFT said I could work on.  I distinctly remember a tool kit to make my W feel special.  Maybe this is why I tried so hard and stayed so long.

More recently in Jan 2010, we were in counseling together with the MFT on base, the one that I told about my W having BPD.  Prior to evaluating my W, the MFT was giving me guidance and counsel on how my W was verbally and emotionally abusing me.  After seeing my W, and while in session together, the MFT asked me to give an example on something my W did that really upset me.  I said, “It really upsets me and I feel betrayed when you take credit cards out of my wallet, make purchases and then hide them, and then return my card without my knowledge.”  The MFT asked, “What did you do after she did that?”  I said, “We went back to the store and we returned as much of the purchases as we could if they weren’t used or damaged.” 

Believe it when I say, the therapist isn't in there doing a flamefest of you.

The MFT said, “I need to let you know how cruel that is to make your W return those items.  This makes a person feel belittled and embarrassed and we don’t want to make anyone feel like that.”  My W chimes with sobbing tears, “Yes, I feel so ashamed when he does that.”   In an instant, I’m the bad guy.  I’m left wondering, why didn’t she, the MFT, didn’t address the issue of this type of spending?  How else am I supposed to minimize the financial damage than to return the item?

When you get to feeling unheard, you are experiencing pain from childhood. Therapists call it "voicelessness."

I had a great childhood.  I remember every day like it was the best time of my life.  I played sports since I could walk, worked on our farm and had a ton of friends in my small town.  I also had a great relationship with my mom and dad.  They were married for over 40 years until my father passed away.  I felt like an important part of the family and community.

Blame is a very easy defense mechanism to spot in therapy.

So, I guess my hunch is that MFTs and some Ts operate on situational information.  They don’t have a long enough history to see her entire behavior.  In my recollection, she has never seen the same person for more than 30 to 45 days and if you break that into 1 visit per week, that is 7 times - max.  Is that really enough time to detect the blame game?  Maybe by that time they can detect something isn’t quite right and she quits going and quits taking her anit-depressants. 

This shouldn't be about feelings- this should be about facts. 

I have already said that I want to take my documentation of her actual behavior, which is fact, not my interpretation of her behaviors.  I hope that this guy she is seeing can then speed up the process and possibly have an impact on detecting whatever she has, BPD or depression or anything OR nothing before she quits going.

[Matt]

My understanding is, most therapists either treat Him, or they treat Her, or they treat Them.  It should be clear who is the client.  If they are blurring that, they are complicating things.

Not to say that is a perfect approach;  I don't know if all therapists can be effective with all patients, relying only on information they get from the patient.  If the patient is determined not to come clean, there may not be much the therapist can do, and I think that is a common situation when someone has BPD and isn't committed to getting better.

[1stand10]

I know I'm reviving my old thread but there has been new developments.  Plus I had surgery and was out for a while but now I'm back!

She made an appointment for all of us to go together.  At first it was very tense.  My S14 shut down emotionally and my D8 fell apart.  He asked each of us to wave a magic wand and make a wish.  My son refused to answer, my daughter wanted her deceased cat back, my W wanted to take more family trips and I wished for stability.  Then he talked to W alone and we went home.

The next week he talked to W alone for 20 min and then my S14.  Then he called me in.  He said he was shocked to see me here.  When I asked why, he said that he thought things were so bad that W and I couldn't even be in the same room together.  He told me that he thought she was suffering from depression and low self esteem. (The same thing that the last counselor said.)  I reminded him of my answer to the magic wand question "stability" and I told him about her behaviors. (specific examples)  His reaction was "WOW!"  I then told him that I was seeing a T (he actually knows him) and how my T went through the DSM IV on my W's behavior so I said I believe she has BPD.  Then within 30 seconds he thanked me for my time and showed me the door.

Later that night my W was sobbing uncontrollably and she told me that earlier her T told her to take the kids and go to a shelter in order to get away from me.  Then she admitted that she "might have sent the wrong impression" to him when she described our situation.

My W has had one more session with him since but I have no idea what went on.

[Matt]

Wow, this is very difficult.

First, I'm glad you're seeing your own therapist, to help you deal with what is going on with your wife.

The part about your wife's therapist supposedly telling her to take the kids and get away from you concerns me a lot.  I have no idea what your wife told him, or what he told her.  But I wonder if your wife is laying the groundwork - first in her own mind, and then saying things out loud - for accusing you of something.  That could have very bad and long-term affects.

I hope you can discuss that with both your therapist and also an attorney, and find out what you can do to protect yourself from false accusations.  You might want to take some practical steps too, like keeping an overnight bag in your trunk in case you decide it will be best to be away from her.  But separating yourself from the kids and the house for long might play into her aggression - legally - so finding out what your options might be, by talking to a lawyer, could save you from making a mistake.

[OTH]

Lawyer up. Keep a journal. Especially time and dates of her strange behaviour. Big