Placing the blame of these relationships.

[nwpbroke]

Ok let me take a stab again at this cause i may of had a moment of clarity.  Jack imposed a boundary, that diane  wouldn't flirt, so she crossed this boundary he needed time to cool off ect.  So if jack didn't do anything and just kept it inside like im sure I did through out the r/s he would of been at fault.  So the right and wrong is all perspective of the character and his or her boundaries.

Now i could be absolutely wrong but ya, so in my situation, i should of imposed a boundary when i started to suspect bs, i should of walked ect instead of fueled the fire due to my immaturity and issues. 

[once removed]

the point is that the road to true healing and a chance for something better than we have had is through understanding our role in the problems.

thats the everlasting rub, and it becomes clearer and clearer the more you do so. every time you do place blame, even understanding your role in THEIR actions is important.

this isn't really a blame story, but for example. i can pinpoint when my ex pulled away, began hiding me, began attaching herself to the guy she ended up going on a date with 6 days after what wasn't even a clear breakup, and started a relationship with after 10 days. this is after 3 years. imagine my anger, not to mention my suspicions. i did nothing to deserve that. she looks like a liar, a cheater, and a conniver. well, saying that doesn't make me feel any better. but understanding why she did it gives me some closure, at the very least. we'd had a HUGE fight during which she said several things i just didnt know if i could get past this time. i told her so. i told her we probably weren't done, but i couldn't really talk to her right now. for the next few days, i mostly ignored her texts. like all BPDs, this is a perpetually lonely person with a deep fear of abandonment. i didn't realize the message i was sending, the behavior i was potentially triggering. and then over the next two months, i saw very little of her, and unbeknown to me, instead of (i read this described on one of the resource articles) "absence making the heart grow fonder", i was "out of sight and out of mind", and my "absence made the heart grow colder." i did some of this throughout the relationship because i had to get away from the terrible fights. i was exhausted and driven away by her. she never seemed to get that, and i never understood WHY she didnt get that. but things were playing out while i was being driven away. infact there was an entirely separate period of 9 weeks where we didn't see each other. i was fine with that. that's not normal, and it's not healthy. why was i fine with it, and why would i remain in a relationship where i could spend 9 weeks away from my partner and be fine with it?

brer rabbit, you were dead on with the romeo and juliet analogy, and that's what still kills me.

there is right and wrong. these people don't share the same sense. and we dont always see it ourselves.

[once removed]

sorry, this thread and slipknots post still have me going.

it's not even just about accepting blame for ourselves or our role in our relationship. just turning the tables around on ourselves, you'd be AMAZED what you find down there. listen to your thoughts. they're telling you things. i kept feeling a need to know and hear that this new relationship of my exes revolved around me in lots of ways. why? to have that pointed out to me started a ton of self examination. it's frankly a thought that makes me uncomfortable with myself. it's immature. i understand it. it's human. i want to feel important and know i mattered. i also wondered why in the world she went with a guy who looks just like me. but this NEED to know it was all about me was revealing, and healing. it's something i can now recognize, and lessen a great deal.

[once removed]

and, PDQuick, your response to Joop spoke to me a great deal as well.

[Brer Rabbit]

brer rabbit, you were dead on with the romeo and juliet analogy, and that's what still kills me.

Its tragic isnt it...it hurts.

Here is some of my tragedy and how I tried to invoke jealousy in a way that Diane did...

We had relocated to SoCal for a new life by the beach. We had $700 to our name...1 daughter 1 on the way...I took a 3 month contract job. I moved first...started my new job...got everything set up. I told her to be extra extra careful cause healthcare was in flux til I get picked up permanently...and that she had never driven that far away from home before. She was on her way back down and got into a car accident. She loved her colored contact lenses cause she hated the color of her own eyes which were the sweetest brown eyes...but she wanted green eyes. She wore those contacts day in and day out so much so the color stuck to her eye balls and the contacts got holes in them. She refused to wear her glasses...which by the way cost $300 of MY money...so on the way down with the last of our belongings it started to get dark and she started to see starbursts from oncoming traffic's headlights. She was nervous and got lost. Our 2yo daughter was in the back and was screaming for juice. She was 30min from our new home. She turned to give D2 her juice and ran into a wall at 35mph. I rushed to the er to find that d2 was perfect (I had a way of strapping that crseat in so that NOTHING could budge it)...the baby on the way was good too...but ex had sustained a concusion and put her top teeth right thru her bottom lip.

So, the next day her dad came down to help out cause I couldnt take of of work...no sick time and we needed all the money we could get. Within 3 days her completely took over what I had created...a new life...all in the name of helping us out. I told him he needed to leave. The one thing that I had asked him to do didnt get done. I had asked him to please take care of the accident admin stuff like report and ins stuff so that way ex didnt hafta relive it all just then. After I calmly asked her father to leave...she gets in my face screaming and yelling at me. I blew up...I yelled at her for getting into the accident...from my perspective it was all her fault...why couldnt she be careful...why couldnt she have worn her glasses...why couldnt she have called me to drive her in being only 30min away and we just got off the phone...she put soo much at jeopardy! I ended up asking her to leave as well. So there I was in my new life...ALONE and RIGHT.

A few weeks went by and I was not happy with the new life. I started to seek employment back in NorCal. We shared an email account that was really mine but she claimed to not know how to set up her own. So I would check to see if I had any unread messages and I did not. A week went by and I started to wonder why I had not even gotten a single reply from any of the jobs I had submitted my resume for...turns out I had. She was reading the emails and deleting them. I told her to stay out of my email account. Instead of just changing the password...I was gonna show her a lesson...she had disrespected me in front of her dad...she had caused soo much hurt, anger, depression over the years...So, I signed up for a sex dating website and had the confirmation email sent to the email I know she was going to check. She had been constantly checking on me...accusing me...now I was missing job opportunities...I was gonna show her. Besides, I caught her doing the same and disguising it as checking the guys out for a friend. She was gonna see how it felt...it was all her fault.

Well, she found out alright. Thats when the physical affairs started...she was gonna show me a thing or 2...

See where the blame game got me...

[once removed]

brer,

that is tragic. even more tragic, i can only imagine, when children are involved. that is something i always considered, and something perhaps comforting i'd like to suggest. one thing i knew for certain was that if i DID marry this person i would not have my children exposed to fights like ours (which, while terrible, dont even approach some of the stories on this site. certainly never any violence. but still, especially with their frequency, not something i could ever entertain having my children exposed to.). in your case her irresponsible behavior was, well, irresponsible. that's worth considering. i've also read up (a little) about BPD mothers. there are certain things i could only picture knowing what i know now that i sure as hell wouldn't want for my children either.

im glad for you that you're able to recognize your own behavior and its consequences. we want to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. some of the dynamics you describe could have played out in any relationship with two immature (i say that respectfully) adults let alone with a BPD.

[Brer Rabbit]

LOL...hey I will be the first to admit that my emotional maturity at times was on par with hers 

You wouldnt believe the nights spent...not loving eachother like newly weds...but wrapped up in the "Well, you did this!" "Well, you did that first!"...all the way back to when we first met.

A great song to listen to is Heartbreak Warfare - John Mayer...thats the blame game.

Youre right...even in "normal" relationships these dynamics can play out...and they do. Look at my divorce stats...can't tell me that nearly 3/4 of married couples with kids are in BPD marriages. Yet theyre divorcing too. Throw in something like BPD...and add a pinch of someone that doesnt know how to stop the dance on the otherside...powder keg is whatcha got.

I think that now we have decided that the unhealthy relationship is over and is no longer right for us...we hafta figure out ":)amn...this hurts. Ok...now what?" I can only speak for me...but this is the first time in my life I have EVER said those words.

The real tragedy is that she still blames me for everything and justifies everything she has done by my actions. I have done the best I can to drop the rope in this emotional tug-o-war. Not something that I like and definitely not something thats natural...but its working for me. I almost choke on the emails that I hafta send out about the girls...end every single one with "Have a nice day." But I am the only one capable of doing it...so thats my job now...conflict manager.

[PDQuick]

If I have an issue with my behavior, and she has an issue with her behavior, Who's issue can I affect? Can I work on mine and have an outcome, or can I work on hers?

[once removed]

brer,

thats what i imagine would be even worse about sharing kids. you're painted black. contact is necessary. any of it could trigger their sense of abandonment or their lashing out. so many of them attempt (or succeed) at turning kids against them.

it's funny, turning it back on me is literally healing in the sense that it's the only thing that REALLY gets my mind off her. i think i can feel it making me better every time. and yeah, our goals have to be to find healthy relationships and that must go hand in hand, so it feels like progress at the same time.

[Brer Rabbit]

There ya go...freeing and empowering isnt it? 

Thats how I get by...thats how I move forward. What happens when you blame others is that you rob yourself of control of your life.

Once I rephrased my thoughts from "She hurt me!" to "I hurt!"...or from "She has problems!" to "What are my problems?"...things started to get a little easier...and the air smelled just a little better...maybe cause my nose was one MY face instead of up hear rear end .

The other thing is that maybe...someday...when I find someone...I am going to know how to better handle myself a little bit better...know how to treat her just a little bit better...and just maybe I will get to experience a healthy loving relationship .

[once removed]

brer,

you'll attract someone far greater, be far more attractive, and enjoy your healthy relationship a great deal more.

[Brer Rabbit]

If I have an issue with my behavior, and she has an issue with her behavior, Who's issue can I affect? Can I work on mine and have an outcome, or can I work on hers?

You can try to work on hers. Then, when youre head is bloody enough from beating it against that wall...the concusion might make you think that just maybe its time to focus on you.

Thats where I had to get I suppose

[sarah1234]

This is a really good thread to read. I don't have time to write a long reply, but I have read with interest what people are realising about themselves and getting all empowered 

[SlipKnot]

hey sarah

part of the power of this place comes from seeing the process in action; from seeing that recovery is a sequence of feelings and emotions and life-events that lead from there to here to tomorrow. when we share where we are, without reservation, we give everyone here another angle on what it is like; another example which may more closely resemble what is going on for someone else. there really is no right or wrong for us, here. just the common desire to understand and move on. synergy in action. the power of truth is incredible.

peace all

SK

[joop]

I think back to my time over the years with my ex and after our first year she never wanted to know my children from my previous marriage. They were cast out and i blamed her for doing that to young children and have them thinking it was there fault, but there were times when she did make an effort and wanted to see them, but i made excuses that they couldnt, i realised i had to protect my children from her because she was not consistent with me in our r/s.. I felt guilty for making excuses , so one day i told her she could not see them because how we were..that hurt her , i saw it in her face for a flickering moment and just as i was about to suggest i bring them to see her she spat out ' well it does not matter anyway because how do you think it feels to me when they look like your ex wife'.. I asked her is that why you cut them out yrs ago and i got no reply.. So you see i went from blame, to guilt, to anger , to hurt..

Did i do my job as a protective father? Yes but i also lied by making excuses to my partner

[SlipKnot]

hey joop

your last post about your kids got me to thinking about kids and how raising them ties into the thread here. we love our kids and want the best for them. so when they mess up, we are able to look at the situation as it pertains to them and what they did. we assess fault and accord correction consistent with the message we want to convey to them, but we dont really blame them, do we? i mean, we can see them being at fault in a situation, but we understand that they are young and IMMATURE, so we refrain from blaming them. we correct and educate because we want them to know the why? of things so they can better govern themselves in the future, all of this with a view toward their learning how to be decent and happy and strong. we do this without really blaming them, because we dont want to hurt them, we want to teach them. its not about punishing so much as helping them to see why they did wrong. so what am i trying to say? honestly, i dont know . i mean, kids are not BPD adults and the relationship is different but i just got to thinking about it and wondering about the whole blame/fault thing. perhaps the tie-in im seeing is in maturity level, ours, our ex's. if just for the sake of our own healing process, might it help to look at it in this way?

peace

SK

[joop]

Hi SK

i think i can see what you are trying to say. We adapt when talking to children, we try to make there selves accountable for there actions but we then try to educate them what impact there behaviour may have on themselves and others. No child wants to accept blame, hey i never wanted to .. But as you say we try and educate as parent.

Now i can see that with my ex i was chastising her for her behaviour towards me and our r/s and trying to hopefully get her to accept responsibility.. She would often comment in those times that i was talking to her like her dad, and i guess i was because her behaviour and her sense of entitlement were childish..

I swear to god my words to her were you are like a selfish child in a womans body..but there in that lies me doing things wrong because talking to her like that was seen as criticism and no child likes to be criticised or repramanded..

We are lucky because throughout our day we move through 3 stages of self, child, adult and parent, we do this unknowingly, child is our joking self our immature self, adult is how you may speak to your boss or act in company and parent is our caring side our concern for others.. Now the BPD can not in a r/s get past child, so in our bad times i was trying to talk to her as 2 adults but she couldnt with being stuck in child so my words were like a parent telling her off

[Robhart]

Blame should be placed directly in the trashcans of our minds.

Relationships are cauldrons of emotional dynamics that stir, with ever growing amounts of ingredients in them. Placing blame in these cauldrons cannot be productful in any way, simply because of the amount of needs, desires, wants, and emotions that happen to make up these soups of life that we call rel

In her insecurity, Diane decides to flirt harmlessly with a friend, while in Jack's presence. She figures that she needs to let Jack see that she has other options. She hopes to draw Jack closer to her by way of a little emotion called jealousy.

This would have been considered an above average night by me with my exBPDgf .

If the fictional couple do not have any major pd's maybe they could work through  it.

The difference with my BPD would have been;

1.  it wouldn't have been innocent flirting

2. It would make no difference to her if we were married or not she'd still do it.

3.She'd deny it or gaslight it like she really wasn't flirting.

4. Good chance she'd take the guy's number and call him.

5.Somehow everything would be my fault.

[swmdBPbfofuBPDgf]

"If you look at it from the disordered persons perspective, is it right for them to lie, cheat, and manipulate? Well, it gets them what they need and want, by the only means that they know, so, the answer would have to be yes, it is right for them, in their limited mental and emotional capacity. "

PDQ...Im sorry, but you're coming off as an apologist for an awful lot of God awful behavior...

If you asked them point blank,  if you do action A, B will occur...and B is the devastation so  many of us go through, its hard to believe they would do action A..

There is a reason we get the silent treatment, there is a reason we get split, there is a reason we get smeared, there is a reason they never apologize, for they know good and well that what they are doing is not right, and the lengths they will go to avoid that shaming concession is really what makes this disorder so distinctive and confounding