Step parents: Introductions

[DreamGirl]

Just wanted to throw this out there so I know who you are.

(We did this a while ago and thought we'd try again with all the new faces)

I'm married to a great fella who has three lovely girls, 14, 12, and 8... .and I have two boys of my own 15 and 11.

My greatest challenge as a secondary non is in keeping my own sanity.

I'm here because I want to find that balance in amongst the chaos that having a BPDparent in the mix can sometimes cause. Learn how to be a mom to my boys, stepmama to my girls, wife to my husband ~ all without losing myself.

How about you?

~DreamGirl

[marlo6277]

I've been married to my husband for 1.5 yrs, been together for 6 yrs.  My husband has custody of the kids and mom sees kids on some weekends.

I have 3 stepchildren - 13 (G), 11(G), 9(B)

My greatest challenge as a secondary non is in keeping my own sanity.

Ditto that one! 

I'm here because I wanted help in helping my stepchildren deal with the struggles of having a BPD mom.  I want to learn to be able to give them what they need without losing myself in the mix and still be able to have a 'normal' relationship with my husband while trying to balance it all with my work life of a 24/7 shift work job! (and breathe!... .)

Thanks for starting this DG!   

Marlo 

[dutchie]

I'm Dutchie! Been with my partner for over 6 years, we're going to get engaged this year I can feel it 

My partner's kids are 13 and 14, both girls, and their mum has uBPD.

I came here when I was going through a rough patch. We had just been to court (again) because of BM (short for 'birth mother' in other words the girls' mum) breaching court order constantly and we came out the big loser. This was extremely frustrating and it made me angry. I needed help in dealing with all these unwanted emotions and so I started looking on the internet and reading some books. Both have helped me lots, I'm back to my old self.

What also helps is that SD14 sees through the fog now, she's even living with us at the moment, which is great! Hopefully SD13 will follow one day 

[DreamGirl]

 Hi!

Well I already knew you two.       x

Keep 'em coming!

[dutchie]

Haha yeah!

[sideliner]

Hey guys... .

I'm probably the newbie among the secondary nons... .my husband and I have been married 3 years.  He received a lot of support and guidance from this board when he was working through the difficult choices surrounding leaving his uBPDx, so we have come back to it at various times in the process of figuring out how to provide as normal an environment as we can to SD16 in the midst of the nastiness of uBPDx. 

A whole new season began this year when SD16 went from not being willing to talk about any issues with her mom (something we've been very careful not to push her to do) to exploding on the phone with her mom while at our house, deciding to go NC and stay with us full-time, and begin to unfold the harrowing story of what growing up with her mom has been like.  She is still very much struggling with all of this, and where to go from here, but it is fabulous to be able to talk honestly, and to know that she no longer feels she has to deal with it alone.

I don't know exactly what I'm looking for from this board.  Sometimes just to vent, sometimes to hear what others are struggling with, which really helps to feel less alone, given how different what we are dealing with is from other situations friends, family and strangers might try to compare it to. I have also really appreciated feedback I've gotten from young people a little older than SD16 about the conflicting feelings involved in sorting out a relationship with a BPD parent, and getting insights from them about what kinds of support were helpful to them from non parents, or what kind of support they would have liked to have had. 

And ditto everything Marlo was saying about trying to balance kids, marriage, job, self, sanity... .though I guess that's what everyone's working on, huh?

[DreamGirl]

... .sometimes to hear what others are struggling with, which really helps to feel less alone, given how different what we are dealing with is from other situations friends, family and strangers might try to compare it to... .

x

I know I feel like that a lot... .that there is not a real understanding of what our lives can sometimes entail unless you've actually been in the trenches of it. Even the good hearted friend, family member, or stranger can't always grasp the dynamic enough to have a discussion or give advice.

So glad you're here.

~DG

[NorthernGirl]

Hi there.  I'm another secondary non.  My DH and I were married last year.  He has 3 boys -- 20, 18 and 16.  20 year old lives with us when he's not travelling.  16 year old lives with us except every other weekend and the occasional evening.  18 year old is struggling with addiction and is currently in a house for similar kids.  He has not yet come to grips with his addiction, believes he can still drink and relies on uBPD to bail him out. She is currently paying his rent, covering his bills, covering up his stealing and trying to convince him to move away with her to her hometown.

DH and I have been together 5 years.  I stumbled across information about BPD when trying to figure out why the boys' mother did what she did to her children. I found this site and read a bunch of information that hit home before finally posting on the boards myself. DH has never really wanted to learn about BPD but has admitted that it is likely what his ex has struggled with for years.

Being on this site and reading all the posts about BPD and the messages from others has helped me cope, helped me see there are better ways for me to act and has helped me try to forgive uBPD for her hurtful behaviors. I still have a long way to go in all of these areas so I will keep coming back.  There are many wise people here who can provide an objective view when I'm caught up in the chaos.

[KHat]

Count me in.  In 2009 my BF and I reconnected after 20 years apart, as he was going through a divorce from his uBPD wife.  I came to these boards after realizing that his stories about dealing with her were not exaggeration, and reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" helped him and his parents see things more clearly.  Her discovering that we were dating during their separation exacerbated the animosity of the divorce as she seemed to think that I had been plotting for 20 years and had something to do with their split.  Their children, daughters close to turning 9 and 13, aren't quite sure what to think, as she will tell them anything she feels like and he won't discuss adult matters with them, and they seem to like me and my son (who is 10).

I come here to get a healthier attitude for dealing with her insanity, mostly to help my BF through it (and helping him untangle the coparenting web, since a huge reason for their split was his disagreeing with her parenting choices).  Fortunately, I don't really have to deal with her myself since she moved 300 miles away last year.  However, we will both be at the first family function together this coming weekend, and I'm a bit nervous about which side of her we'll see:  the one in which she performs the consummate mom/wife/daughter-in-law, or the one which believes that she shouldn't have to hold back any of her thoughts or feelings.

I probably have things a little easier than many of you because we have the girls relatively rarely - every other weekend and, soon, alternating weeks in the summer.  The transitions are still hard on them, and when they're with us, their mom calls several times a day.  With her as their primary parent, though, they are taking a lot of their cues on how to live life and treat people, like their dad, from her, and sometimes it feels like a Herculean task to reprogram them for independence and accountability at our house.

Also, since reading and posting here, I've become much more self-aware about my own issues, and am learning how to cope with a lot of my baggage from my relationship with my late mother, who also had some pretty strong BPD traits.  The materials about toxic shame really hit home with me and I believe that if I can fix some of my issues, the ex-wife's damage won't hit me so hard.

This feels something like a disjointed bio so if I've left anything vague or out completely, please ask.

[allhelpwelcome]

Well, I may be familiar, DG, since I jumped onto the board desperately a few months ago but here's some info for all:  Married 7 months ago (!) to a marvel of a man with 2 kids (16 and 11). Their mom is BPD, untxed, and it was a harrowing divorce for all (5 years in the making... .done 6 years ago) No kids of my own -- first marriage for me.

I joke that, despite feeling prepared for it all, I found myself googling "stepmothering WTF" by the second week!

I needed help to find my footing, create my own boundaries in a system where they are attenuated at best, and a trusted sounding board.  I found this board especially useful because some of the step mom literature assumes "normal" bio moms.  It seems to me the best course of action with a BPD biomom is not always easily discerned.

My biggest challenge is maintaining a sharp focus on the marriage -- growing into the wife I want to be without getting distracted by the other stuff.  Second challenge is maintaining hope that the children will be positively affected by our union, their time in our happy home, and the model of a loving relationship given what they have and will conitnue to hear and what they need to negotiate in their little lives.

So, definitely balance.  Me and hubbie also use the board to weigh options when a "course of action" is considered (that being everything from an email to a letter to returning to court).

Thanks DG!

[Summer1]

Hi Everyone!

Been on this Board for 6 months. Married 16 yrs and have a S6. H has  UBPD... .and can be very difficult to live with. Not sure how much longer I will be with H. As of now he is seeing a T and is trying to change ... .just not sure if he can.

In the meantime I am trying to make sure my son is ok and not effected by H's poor behaviors. It has been very stressful for me and it feels like everything is on my shoulders. I am on this Board to get and give support. I think this is a great  place to give advice and share ideas with one another.

The people on this Board have been a Great Blessing to me!   

Feeling very Lucky to have found this place!

Summer

[DreamGirl]

There you all are.   

[Summer1]

Oh... .and Thank You DG for all your help and comments! I always enjoy reading your Posts! 

[GaGrl]

A bit late coming in here... .

Like Khat, I reconnected with my DH after his marriage was long over to the uNPD/BPD he calls "The Dark Princess."  DH and I had been crazy about each other as teens but not able to make the connection then (draft, Vietnam, college, etc. etc.).  Also like Khat, I had that history of prior relationship, which TDP twisted into "Well, all those times you said you were playing golf, you were really driving to see Gagrl."  Right -- 120 miles one-way for an afternoon delight.

The marriage to TDP was so damaging that my DH was still legally married to her, although 14 years separated.  She had offered him a divorce, but he couldn't imagine a relationship with someone, in addition to having to explain a long-standing STD that the ex had given him, which brings us to the NPD and BPD behaviors that caused the damage were focused primarily on constant and flagrant infidelities, with some rages and control and belittling thrown in.  All of this damaged not only DH but the (now) adult children also.

No one in that family had acknowledged mental problems until I got a good look at what was going on while DH extricated himself from the legal marriage and started a new life with me.  I pretty quickly saw the narcissism, then realized that BPD was at work also.  I also pretty quickly had to put up boundaries that are, in my estimation, as strong as concertina wire.  and she still trespasses every now and then, even after 5 years.

DH has healed.  The adult children are still a mess.  My SD30 doesn't allow the GD10 any unrestricted access to The Dark Princess, due to the negative influences.   

[stepmomforaday]

 Hi! to all the stepmoms!  I am stepmom to a beautiful SD (15) and a sweet SS (28), and biomom to my newly-married : ) son (26).  My husband and I celebrated our 10th anniversary a couple months ago.  For the first five years or so, I blamed all the problems that occurred between me and his uBPDxw on myself.  Always on the lookout for help, I stumbled upon some info on BPD, following that road led me here.  I visit as needed for the wisdom and support I find in other's stories. (thanx!)

My SD also does not talk about her mom or her relationship with her mom, and we don't push or pry, but watch and listen and things are changing.  For example, on the weekends that my SD is here with us, I have noticed some changes in the way she talks to her mom on the phone--her tone of voice is more withdrawn and the calls are shorter than they used to be.  She has begun emailing her dad and texting with me : ) Previously, any communication outside of the visits here has been severely controlled and prevented by her mom.

Twice during our marriage, my SS has lived with us, so my SD has seen that we welcome our kids to our home.  I have been encouraged by the signs I have seen that my SD is becoming her own person, and has begun reaching out to others for help dealing with the divorce between her dad and mom.  

I am a high school teacher and this board has also helped me deal with parents of some of my students who have exhibited behaviors that I now recognize all too well.

It is here that I find people who understand what BPD is, and healthy ways to deal with it.  I cannot thank you enough!

[halffull]

Hello everybody, its been a while since I have visited the site.  My DH's ex is uBPD/NPD.  They have been divorced for 12+ years now.  DH and I have been married for close to 4.  SD is 17.5 yo now and a junior in HS.

I have been having a hard time of the unrelenting legal harrassment from BPDmomster or simply "the evil one".  The first lawsuit started as soon as she found out we were engaged.  DH just went to court again on Friday.  We have a little over a year left of our CO - but really - this woman is on a mission to destroy us, there will be no end to her vengence.

SD is an only child and totally enmeshed.  DH is in denial - picks his head up just before each court case to pull together his response and then puts his head back into the sand.

I first came to the board to get a reality check and try to understand her.  Now I visit just to seek the solace of knowing that there are other people suffering at the hands of people such as the "evil-ex".  It seemed like there used to be more specific threads about secondary non's. Again, I haven't been visiting that often.

I'm afraid this whole situation has taken a huge toll on my own mental health.  I'm finding it hard to disengage from my SD and DH without feeling like a crummy person.  Knowing just a little about the horrible and inappropriate things that the evil one says about me to her daughter is quite depressing.  I am losing hope that I will ever have more than a cordial relationship with SD because of the loyalty bind that her mom has put her in.  We have 40/60 split custody so 40% of the time, I walk on eggshells in my house when SD is here.  Evil-one has been really good about telling us all the things she knows about our relationship and our household via SD.

I'm hoping I can get to a place where I can feel some hope that my marriage and life as a stepmother will someday get out from under the black, cancerous cloud that is spread by BPD.  Pretty low expectations, I know but BPD is simply awful and I wish there were more discussions about just how horrible all the collateral damage is to us "secondary non's" (PS I hate that term - I've been marginalized and victimized way too much by my husband's ex-wife to take any joy in any label that makes me secondary)

[DreamGirl]

 Hi!

I'm so very glad that the posts keep rolling in.

((halffull))

Randi Kreger (I believe) coined the term "secondary non".  We are not the pwBPD and we are not the nonBPD, instead we're in a relationship with the nonBPD.  I think it becomes "secondary" in correaltion to the relationship with the pwBPD (not hardly the nonBPD). I can see how you could read it in a way that it seems lesser or minimzing and I'm really sorry if that exemplifies any way you've been feeling. I know what it's like to feel like some sort of a consolation prize.  It sucks.  Also pretty gosh darned common in Stepmotherhood.

Maybe it could be seen as secondary education or a secondary opinion? (Anything more positive!)

Pretty low expectations, I know but BPD is simply awful and I wish there were more discussions about just how horrible all the collateral damage is to us "secondary non's"

It's what I refer to as the ripple effect.

And it very well can be a destroyer of marriages.

It's why I've started this thread, to gather us together.  I think we all could use some tools in strengthening our marriages rather then letting the life of it slowly slip away.  I think FAR too much focus is being spent on everyone else in these situations... .and I think we need to get back to the basics.  

I'm so glad you are here and I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time.  My husband, too, suffers (from time to time) to stick-your-head-in-the-sand syndrome.  One of his best methods of coping and he is well versed in practicing when he just doesn't have what it takes to deal with it.  Hard thing to accept, I know.  You are also not a crummy person for wanting to find a place [by disengaging or what not] where it's not a constant in your life.

Please stick around. We're here for you and I hope to gather more information, ideas, literature, etc to make available here as we all forge thru this.

Take gentle care of you. x

~DreamGirl

[halffull]

Thank you DreamGirl - I'm glad I found my way back!

[GaGrl]

I find it interesting how, even when things are going so good at our house, The Dark Princess can affect our personal lives and decisions.

For example, a wonderful thing happened unexpectedly last month... .a number of months after the fact, DH was informed that his stepmother (who thought he hung the proverbial moon) had left her estate to be equally divided among her 2 bio children and 3 stepchildren.  This is a woman who loved in a mighty way.  So, with taxes settled, DH got a hefty little check, with another on the way when the final settlement is complete.

And after the initial "Wow! What a great surprise!" -- what was the next reaction?  Almost simultaneously, we said, "Well, we sure don't want The Dark Princess to know, which means we can't tell the kids."  The kids mean well, but they are still just SO clueless on how to deal with TDP.

[KHat]

Thank you for starting this roll call, DreamGirl.  Although I knew a lot of you were also "non nons" (is that term better than secondary non, Halffull?), it's helpful to see everyone's stories in one place.  Gagrl, I'd seen your posts about TDP and didn't realize you were also in a "retrosexual relationship" as the new term defines romances born of long-lost loves reconnected.  It really is exhausting to deal with someone's paranoia about cheating and I admit that I caught a ___storm when making my first post here with the tongue-in-cheek title, "the other woman" since I probably wasn't sensitive enough to the appearances that the uBPDxW saw and spread.  Unfortunately, my BF also took the unwise tactic of getting exhausted by denying everything and then - not unlike the scene in the recent movie "Easy A" - just sarcastically admitting to everything to end the argument, winding a tale of ridiculous proportions that she believed, hook line and sinker, as a confession.  A confession which she has repeated to the children and built all of her other false beliefs and unrealistic expectations upon.  But it justifies her perpetual victimhood, and was not, as he had hoped, a way for her to drop the constant questioning and accusations and move on.

Halffull, your post really resonated with me and my darkest fears (and places).  It is SO hard to deal with those superglue bonds of loyalty, and to feel sometimes like your stepchildren are spies in your home.  My BF has started reading the Love & Logic guides to parenting, but feels they are unrealistic in that when he tries to teach his children consequences, like telling one she can have dinner after she finishes cleaning her room, it results in a call to the uBPDmom with a claim that he's not feeding her even though she's hungry ... .and the mom is ready to believe abuse, no questions asked, because my BF is blacker than black to her now.  I feel a weight lift my shoulders when the girls leave, yet am still anxious that every moment they spent with us will be shared and taken apart, piece by piece, with their mother, who just looks to gather evidence that we are/he is entirely unfit to spend any time with his children at all.  The anxiety is *my* issue though, and regardless of why I feel it, I need to find ways to deal with it and move through it so that I can enjoy the children and the time spent together.

Anyone who ever said, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" never had a BPD ex.

Two things that I've found success with:  1) to praise and thank my BF for HIS boundaries which keep her from interfering with our life and me.  I know that, because of the nature of our relationship, he wants to share every frustration, much like he did in the early days of our reconnection, before we were in a romantic relationship, when I was just an old friend who had also been through a divorce.  Yet he knows that it causes me unnecessary stress in that I can't do/say anything to relieve the source of the tension, and he has learned what is and is not appropriate to share with me.  This includes the things that he has heard about me/our relationship from the ex through the children and any unfounded threats she makes.  I find that if it weren't for his boundaries, the relationship would be far more difficult than it already is.

The other thing is to 2) put myself in the children's shoes.  It's hard for me, especially when I'm wrestling with unresolved issues from my own childhood, to see them as children and me as the adult - I take the rejection seriously even though I can also remember what it felt like to be twelve and confused and in the early stages of puberty and rebellion.  I can simultaneously tell my BF to take the girls' angry rages with a grain of salt as to the truth of their words, and yet myself internalize every word they say to me.  One of my weaknesses in parenting my own child, as my BF has pointed out, is that I'm not very fond of childish things and respond more positively to (and perhaps have greater expectations of) logical, adult-level conversations and interactions.  Expecting his girls to be relating to me on this level is unrealistic, and I am also not a prepubescent girl who lives by peer pressure.  I really have to stop and think of what the world looks like from their eyes:  feeling things they can't verbalize, upset about the end of the family as they knew it (even if they knew they were miserable with their parents always fighting), afraid of changes they have no control over like their mother moving them away, uncertain about who I am and if I'm as evil as their distraught mom claims, wondering if their father will stop loving them too, or if he loves me more, whether I will try to take their mother's place, and maybe even confusion about their mother's behavior and what, if anything, to do about it.  Intellectually, I know these things; I don't know why it's so hard to understand them WHILE I interact with them and experience the rejection or the cold shoulder I sometimes get.  I guess I know myself, and my intentions, and I still get hurt if someone reads them wrong, or rejects me even when I'm trying my best.  It's a bit easier to have a thicker skin if I can get into their heads a bit and empathize.

Finally, my sanity-saver is to have a hobby that I can retreat into at many times, including when my BF needs time alone with his children, or when I need to take a breather, or if there is behavior that it is not my role to deal with.  From the outside I probably look serene, but internally, I can take my frustrations out productively in my art.  I'm not sure what I would do without it, and having a boyfriend who appreciates it and praises it helps my self-esteem tremendously when it's most needed.

I'd love to hear what has worked best for others.  It really is frustrating to read guides that talk about joyous coparenting experiences, like Demi Moore & Bruce Willis have found, and know that it probably won't ever be our experience.  I go through life very careful not to upset even strangers, and having someone out there who hates me so venomously is more of a burden than I have ever wanted.

[DreamGirl]

These posts sometimes just tug at my heart strings.          

I really do know how hard this stuff is.  All these years later... .one night of drunken gibberish from the pwBPD in my life rattled my comfortable little world - and awakened the old feelings of self doubt, frustration, insecurity, guilt, and confusion.

I also feel that a lot of us are really losing sight of ourselves (maybe?). It's like in marlo's Compassion Fatigue thread - so much time is spent on the children, on the disordered ex, on our spouse... .we forget about our basic human needs. For me, like KHat, I have my own issues that have had me fairly ill equipped to handle some of what is involved when being in a marriage with a person who has an ex who suffers from this disorder.  

So from what I'm reading here the issues I see (so far) specifically geared towards the stepparent/secondary non (in order of appearance, not importance):

(1)Balancing stepparenthood, marriage, career without disappearing

(2)Dealing with difficult emotions (sometimes even foreign ones)

(3)Feeling alone

(4)Not having enough real life support outside our spouse

(5)Staying grounded in admidst the chaos

(6)Forgiveness of the BPD behavior(difficult subject)

(7)Minimizing the smear campaign against us

(8)Forging our own relationships with the stepkiddos

(9)Coping skills

(10)Defining our role and place

(11)Boundaries (specifically for US) - creating and more importantly maintaining

(12)Navigating thru our own FOG (Fear,Obligation,Guilt)

(13)Nurturing our own physical needs and our own mental health

(14)Recognizing our own imperfections in parenting

(15)Maintaining compassion for others in the situation

Good start? Did I miss anything? Anyone like to add?

   :)reamGirl

[GaGrl]

Dreamgirl, I would add something related to finding the balance in supporting our spouse -- who on the one hand still has continued contact with the PD ex-spouse but on the other hand doesn't always realize how he/she is continuing to be manipulated or used.

Khat, yes... .I first met my DH when I was 12 and he was almost 16!  We were next door neighbors and in the church youth group together.  His sister was my age, and we were constantly in and out of each other's houses.  Our parents were fast friends.  My family moved away as I approached 14, but DH and I stayed in contact.  We have always had a strong and special connection -- the whole package of intellectual, physical, emotional and spiritual attraction.  I was far too young and too naive and too stupid to know what the potential was when I was 17 and he was 21.  Instead, he went into the Army, served in Thailand, and married The Dark Princess.  And I married someone else also.  It took -- no lie -- 35 years from the time we parted for us to reconnect and get married.

A "funny" story... .early on in their relationship, TDP went through his wallet (harbinger of things to come), found an old photo of me, and tore it into little pieces, telling him, "You are mine now."

I am fortunate that our children are not minors.  We tried to connect in 1991 when I learned his mother had died, but I sensed something wasn't "right."  Turns out the marriage was failing, and if we had connected, it would have been a horrible divorce situation for all involved.  Not having minor children at the time of our marriage made it easier for us to define the dysfunctionality, and easier for me to define boundaries that were manageable.  We don't have exchanges of children with the need to physically see each other.  Our activities revolve around helping the adult children heal when they don't fully realize the dynamics of their continued interactions with their mother nor how it all is affecting their current marriages/relationships.

However, what's depressing about our situation is the realization that it NEVER really ends.  I mean, it really NEVER ends.  Just when we think her drama or manipulations or neediness or Queen/Witch behaviors have settled down for awhile, something triggers her, and DH is right back in it as the sounding board and peacemaker.

[NorthernGirl]

Good list DreamGirl and I like the addition from Gagrl related to our spouses.  It is easy to forget to focus on our marriage with all that goes on. We also have to speak up pretty loud to get something we want with all the chaos.

KHat --- I hear you on "having someone out there who hates you so venomously".  Some days it helps me to think about how much fear uBPD lives with, and realize that she likely fears me much more than she hates me. I'm guessing she constantly fears the boys will abandon her, so I become the object for her fear because otherwise she would have to look at what she is doing. I can get myself to have empathy for her when I think about how horrible it must be to have constant overwhelming fear. When I can realize that what she goes through has little to do with me, it helps.

I've just started reading by a book called Loving What is by Byron Katie. She believes that it is our thinking that causes our own suffering and if we could just move past this, we would find peace. She believes we spend much of our lives trying to get other people to do what we want them to do and that it is pointless. I can see this in myself, and can see that I want uBPD to get help, stop hurting her children, leave us alone, etc, etc. And she will never do this. So I need to let go of those thoughts. The author calls coming to grips with letting go is doing "The Work" and I can see why. You can check out her website if you're interested.

[sideliner]

However, what's depressing about our situation is the realization that it NEVER really ends.  I mean, it really NEVER ends.  Just when we think her drama or manipulations or neediness or Queen/Witch behaviors have settled down for awhile, something triggers her, and DH is right back in it as the sounding board and peacemaker.

Say it ain't so, Gagrl!  I may be totally delusional, but as my SD will be beginning college out of state next year, I see this as her finally having a life that's _hers_, and our being able to interact with her on that basis.  She may have contact with her mom, depending on how things unfold, and we will support her in dealing with that, but I guess I am totally baffled to imagine how my DHs BPDXW can continue to yank us around in all the horrible ways we've had to tolerate because it was impossible to distance ourselves from them while maintaining the best connection we could with SD.  It is honestly hard for me, at least at the moment, to conceive of how I will give a flying F about anything she does once she doesn't have the power to wreck my daily life anymore, and now that my SD doesn't have to put up with it anymore either, now that she is not dependent upon her for food and shelter part of the time, and is beginning to see her abuse for what it is. 

I wonder if I'll be posting something in a year where I talk about how wrong I was... .but for now, I am nurturing the belief that the prison of my life is about to be unlocked. 

I feel like i have had to swallow so much poison over the last 5 years, because I could look at all the alternatives, know our legal limitations, and predict exactly the brazen things BPDX would do at every turn... .so often the best thing was to ignore the outrage, accept that this is life as we know it for as long as we can not cut all ties with BPDX without hurting SD. 

I guess my feelings are also influenced by the fact that as SD moves into greater independence in life, all the things that have been sources of torture and stress are suddenly reversing.  Like the fact that BPDX never pays for anything, not even with child support money we send.  I just found out recently from SD that even things I thought BPDX had bought for SD, she had apparently hounded SD to insist that we pay her back... .SD didn't want to do this, so instead she gave her money _FROM HER ALLOWANCE_, a very modest $10 a week we gave her starting in middle school so she would have the opportunity to make choices with her own money. (Rotten choices she had, turns out.) Needless to say, BPDX will not be contributing a red cent to SDs college tuition or other needs.  But that's the kind of stuff I'm used to, and have had to stress over and live with, as BPDX dragged us repeatedly into court because she apparently always had plenty of money for lawyers (wish we could say the same).  Here's the good part... .she isn't helping SD at all!  So she can't guilt her about it!  She can't threaten to withdraw it!  She has done so little for SD, emotionally, physicially, spiritually, financially, that she holds no cards.  Sad for SD.  Sad for BPDX.  But still... .I wouldn't have it any other way, because it gives SD the ability to break free and begin to discover who SHE is, something her mom would never, never have let her do.

Whew.  Guess I was holding a lot of stuff in.  I think I've really been having a hard time processing how I feel, in a situation where how I feel really hasn't mattered for years.  And I don't mean to say that my DH or SD haven't been sensitive to my feelings... .I think I truly believe that my feelings haven't mattered, in a pragmatic sense.  I look at the situation, it's unfair, it's gutwrenching, it's anxiety-producing, it's depressing, but it is what it is.  For the first couple years of getting used to it all, DH and I agonized about every decision, before we figured out none of our careful considerations would actually impact BPDXs behavior.  But for the last 3 years, what we need to do has been pretty clear in most situations.  It's never fair, it's never kind to us or even reasonable, but by saying, "yeah, it sucks that we have to deal with it, but so what?" we have been able to create a pretty normal life with SD, at least while she's with us... .which is now all the time since SD went NC two months ago. 

So when you know what you need to do, and you're willing to do it, and the results are clearly the best you can hope for under the circumstances... .where do feelings fit in?  I'm really asking this.  I feel like  "it is what it is" is the story of my life for the last 5 years.  Maybe after DH and I return from helping SD move into her dorm, maybe I'll throw myself an awesome pity party, with the theme of "I can't believe the s**t that b****h put us through all these years!" And then, sadder and angrier, think about how much worse what SD has had to deal with, and how much she will have to work through in the course of her young adulthood.  But that part I already think about, all the time. 

It is what it is.  Or is it?

[GaGrl]

Sideliner,

My DH and his ex, The Dark Princess, were legally married for 33 years, separated for 14 years when DH and I reconnected and married.  TDP has a complicated attitude toward DH, typical NPD/BPD -- at times he can do no wrong/is on a pedestal/functions as an authority figure and security fall-back while at other times he was painted black, could do nothing right, treated as dirt under her feet.

Since their children became adults and TDP experienced the loss of control with them (or at least the level she felt she needed or was entitled to), our primary interaction with her has been phone calls to DH wanting him to intercede with the children to "make them do what they should be doing."  But her demands and wishes are completely out of line, and DH ends up being the objective sounding board.  I've encouraged him to extricate himself from this role, but frankly, as long as I don't have to speak with her, and as long as she doesn't show up at our house and make snide remarks about life, the universe, and everything as it relates to Gagrl, I'm OK with DH taking the occasional (perhaps monthly) phone call with the latest "crisis."

The worst of it is over, but it took 5 years.  The nadir was what we termed "The Great Breast Cancer Scare."  It was a cyst.  But it resulted in hysterical phone calls, a trip to her city to help her draw up a will, and now DH is the executor of her will.  Oh, yay -- I can't wait to see how DH evicts her live-in boyfriend, because everything belongs to TDP.

It's all even crazier than this, but as I say, "I don't have to write fiction -- I couldn't make this #$&! up if I tried."

[sideliner]

frankly, as long as I don't have to speak with her, and as long as she doesn't show up at our house and make snide remarks about life, the universe, and everything as it relates to Gagrl, I'm OK with DH taking the occasional (perhaps monthly) phone call with the latest "crisis."

I get that.  Doesn't make life any easier though, huh? 

By the way, I should add my name to the list of suspected other women... .I met my DH a few months after he moved out, while divorce proceedings were still going on... .he had been working his way through the various boards from "staying" to "undecided" to "get me the $%# out of here" over the previous 4 years.  I had been living in another state for, well, my entire life up until 3 weeks before I met DH.  BPDx knows this, but found nifty ways of inserting me into previous supposed dalliances of DH over the years, which is preposterous since she never let him out of her sight.  Not to mention the two states in question are separated by about 2000 miles, which is pretty far for a booty call. For someone who works full time and is sat upon by his wife the rest of the time.  But since when does a pwBPD have to let the facts intrude?

[KHat]

I feel a greater camaraderie with the women posting on this thread than I have with even some of my closest BFFs since this relationship began.  Really, no one outside of a relationship like this fully gets it.  And when you have your own internal demons they get it even less.

Yes, sideliner - the alleged dalliances ... .uBPDxW moved the kids 300 miles away, ironically very close to where I lived before BF and I reconnected and I took a job in his town.  And then she blames him for not driving up and back, 10 hours round trip, for a 50-minute counseling session or a school conference or a dance recital, because he allegedly did it all the time when *I* lived there ... .so not true but how do you argue with that version of reality?  I grew up with a little of that with my mom and know how you need to just give up and walk away.

And Gagrl - the story of the torn picture made me laugh in a sad way.  BF and I met in college, also an age difference that seemed much bigger then but less now that we're in our 40's, and while our love affair faded into friendship because he was graduating, it was a friendship which was not allowed by the uBPD.  I was living in Europe as an exchange student - partially, honestly, to clear my mind and heart of him - and he called once to talk about life after graduation and ask about my experiences.  It was an unexpected surprise and left me with warm feelings of a good friendship even though I knew he was with her.  When the phone bill came in ... .she called me herself to tell me that he was with her and that I should leave him alone.  I never accepted another call, sent another postcard, or even found him online once the internet came along because of that.  When he found me, he had been looking for me for a while.  Unfortunately, he told his ex about this undying love when she accused me of being all sorts of a cheap sexual manipulator, and this only increased her anger against me ... .because it was far easier than dealing with her own feelings of inadequacy and failure to have that love turned on her.  I have tremendous pity for her for that.  I'm not all that certain that my childhood experiences and hers are all that different, we have just grown into handling them with different measures of introspection, honesty, and coping skills.

Last night I picked up the Beverly Engel book, "Healing Your Emotional Self: A Powerful Program to Help You Raise Your Self-Esteem, Quiet Your Inner Critic, and Overcome Your Shame."  As I read it I am tossed about with so many conflicting thoughts ... .my purpose in reading the book is to take steps to heal myself from my mother's perfectionism, her messages to me that I was a frequent embarrassment or disappointment to her, and that I couldn't function in this world without her guidance.  But then I also see how the uBPDxW became who she is, even though I know relatively little about her upbringing, I can see what she has internalized and how it manifests.  And then I see what her smothering and narcissism is probably going to do to her children, and how my BF and I have to parent in a way that minimizes the effect.  We are all so damaged in our own ways, and the more equipped we are to fix ourselves, the more healing and forgiveness we can turn outward to pwBPD or their children whom we care for.

DreamGirl, I think your list is pretty all-inclusive, and man, it is a daunting thing to look at.  If someone were to have presented it to me when my BF and I reconnected, I might just have run the other way as fast as possible!  Ugh!   

[DreamGirl]

First of all - I think we all have had the same reaction to Gagrl.  

"What do you mean... .it doesn't ALL just go away when the kids are grown?"

I also have a the kindred link to Gagrl in that I have a somewhat enmeshed husband who still has attachments to making it OK for everyone.

What helped you Gagrl?

If I remember right... .didn't you sit your husband down, with a little bit of liquid courage... .and tell him just what it is that you needed from him at one point?  

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99674.msg985469#msg985469

I feel a greater camaraderie with the women posting on this thread than I have with even some of my closest BFFs since this relationship began.  Really, no one outside of a relationship like this fully gets it.  And when you have your own internal demons they get it even less.

I think there is so much truth to this.  I also think we are in the presence of some pretty extraordinary women (speaking of - where's our ennie?).

By the way, I should add my name to the list of suspected other women... .I met my DH a few months after he moved out, while divorce proceedings were still going on... .

Me too.

I actually had a conversation with his BPDex in the past month that touched on this subject for the umpteenth time.  I don't know that it's something that will ever go away.  It's a coping skill for her... .like you have all suggested... .it takes away the accountability because it is literally unbearable to accept any part in the failed relationship.

And you're right Khat, arguing with distorted reality is a fruitless task. She really does believe her thoughts, regardless of the facts surrounding her. It's like an addict who expresses that doing a line of cocaine instead of having coffee for breakfast isn't a big deal.  It really does make sense to the person doing it.  I've seen the pwBPD in my life vocalize her very different perception of events that I've bore witness to myself.  She has spent a lifetime making it all OK inside her head by twisting facts.  I don't see her stopping anytime soon. ;p

I think your list is pretty all-inclusive, and man, it is a daunting thing to look at.

So we have a daunting list.  

I think we should all start doing something about making it less daunting.  

~DreamGirl

[NorthernGirl]

My guess is those of you who knew your partner before just give the BPD a simple reason to believe that things have gone wrong for her. I am not an "other woman", but it doesn't make any difference.  She believes that I and others are responsible for her troubles.

Several times SS20 has tried to reconcile with his UBPD mom by saying he was willing to say he was 50% to blame for their problems, if she would just admit to the same. Each time she refused, saying she was a model mother. She tells him that from the time he was a small child, he was bad. It is things like this that help me to see that she really is mentally ill, not just vindictive or mean. What stable mother would tell her oldest son that he was evil since he was a child?

I'm not sure if others have the same issue, but another one on my list is the difficulty I have seeing UBPD's behavior in the kids. Thankfully I don't think any of the three boys are borderline, but they have some behaviors that I (maybe wrongfully) attribute to her. When I see them successfully manipulating their dad, it really erks me. And when they try it on me, I get angry. I am usually a patient person but not around those behaviors. I need to figure out a way to call the behavior and move on but I haven't got there yet.

[GaGrl]

DreamGirl, I think your list is pretty all-inclusive, and man, it is a daunting thing to look at.  If someone were to have presented it to me when my BF and I reconnected, I might just have run the other way as fast as possible!  Ugh!   

Isn't that just the truth!

It actually took my DH about a month to slowly reveal the degree of the problems with The Dark Princess.  It took even longer than that for him to admit that her massage business wasn't legit and that she was, in fact, prostituting herself in a VERY lucrative and dangerous business.  The depth of his humiliations and yet his continued enmeshment because "she's the mother of my children" was not something he was able to reveal easily, nor would it have been possible for me to absorb it quickly.

I think the turning point for DH and his daughter was when SD let her mother babysit, only to find out that TDP had taken the 4-year-old to her massage parlor.  Both DH and SD drew an immediate line at that point -- TDP was no longer allowed unfettered access to the child, and that continues to this day -- even after TDP sold the massage business last year (thank God, since we no longer have to worry about getting a call from the county jail saying she's been busted).

If you haven't read the entire saga, click on Dreamgilr's link -- really, I can't make this #$%! up.

And DG, you're correct -- that was a turning point for DH and me.  I find it difficult to express my needs easily, and he had to hear that our marriage was being affected.  DH would never, never, NEVER risk our marriage.

I think one thing that really helped also was that I've become very, very good at naming TDP's behaviors, and I don't hesitate to do so.  Sometimes it's just saying -- "Queen" or "Witch" or "Waif." (she's never a hermit).  Other times, I'll just comment... ."Hmmmm, manipulative."  Or "Controlling."