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THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PERSONALITY DISORDERS
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Author Topic: DIFFERENCES|COMORBIDITY: Borderline and Antisocial Personality Disorder  (Read 29749 times)
DrJones


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« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2014, 07:32:00 AM »

Sometimes I feel a little bit confused. Some of the stories I read here look very much like psychopathy cases, rather than BPD. I understand that BPD are not "bad people", they have feelings and they feel sorry about all the hurt they may provoke and I know that my BPDwife is like that. Sometimes I have seen her crying about something bad she had done when she didn't know that I was there.

However some of the cases exposed here are terrible. People worse than Hannibal Lechter with no feelings, no regret and a continual parasitic life (my mother in-law is like that. She's provoked several BPD within her family).

Can anyone describe the differences between these two disorders?
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Gloria_Patch
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« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2014, 06:55:26 PM »

My dad is a sociopath. And my mother developed paranoid delusional disorder. My husband is BPD. I struggle with the same question. A doctor told me many times BPD coincides with antisocial behavior.

I'll tell you about my mom. She was the most loving mother in the world.  When she developed paranoid delusional disorder, I could have fell off a cliff, and she wouldn't notice. I read that Bpd increases with each new generation. I think, eventually, it will be classified as a form of delusional disorder. It is not just a personality disorder, it is large in scale.

What I am saying is I lived with my parents until I was 18, so I know a sociopath. But a person suffering an illness has very little empathy. So they may appear sociopathic. They are experiencing a war in their minds. If your foot was broken and bleeding, would you worry aboutyour wife's day.

A little note about my mom. She had to hit rock bottom. Homelessness. And even then, it was an outsider who got her to go. I know I wouldn't be able to. And even now, she goes off her neds, 16 years later. And even though I took her out of the shelter,  she still never acknowledges I did anything.

That's illness.

I forgot how to deal with the mentally ill. My advice: Treat it like a funeral. Mourn. Think of the person as dead. Remember the good times.  If they contact you, literally think of them as zombies. It is not the real person. That person is dead. Stay away from the zombie.

BUT have a doctor's phone number. If the zombie asks, give them the number and don't explain. Crazy people know they are crazy. They really do. If the person gets a prescription, give it time for it to kick in. NEVER Ever let them go off their meds. No matter how good they seem. Never. Unless they are doing well in therapy for a couple years and the doctor says so. Never ever go one day without making sure they are on their meds.
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McGahee21
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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2015, 07:16:40 AM »

what is the core difference, or is a BPD woman basically a sociopath with a little more empathy than a pure sociopath? 


also can someone explain the " emptiness" BPD people feel.  my exBPDgf would talk about literally feeling empty inside or that she wants to crawl in a ball and die. 

i just equate it to sadness or depression or low energy.   but emptiness sounds bizarre
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McGahee21
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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2015, 07:17:50 AM »

also, the lying in a BPD woman is literally unbelievable, to the point where you dont even know who she is, which is very strange.  like even when telling the truth makes more sense, they still lie
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Infern0
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« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2015, 07:42:52 AM »

There's a huge difference.

Female antisocial have no emotions other than anger

Bpd have very intense emotions but no real filter and very disordered coping mechanisms.

There's a big difference,  though the resulting behaviors can seem similar.

Think about it like this

Sociopath never had any emotional development

Borderline emotional development got stuck at around age 8-12

The problem is most people that end up with borderlines are emotionally unhealthy and look to the Borderline to fulfill them.

Would you put an 8 year old in charge of your happiness?

Hence the devastating results
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2015, 07:57:02 AM »

Quote
what is the core difference, or is a BPD woman basically a sociopath with a little more empathy than a pure sociopath?  

also can someone explain the " emptiness" BPD people feel.  my exBPDgf would talk about literally feeling empty inside or that she wants to crawl in a ball and die.  

i just equate it to sadness or depression or low energy.   but emptiness sounds bizarre

also, the lying in a BPD woman is literally unbelievable, to the point where you dont even know who she is, which is very strange.  like even when telling the truth makes more sense, they still lie

ASPD and BPD are both cluster B disorders and there's overlap in behaviors, but they are fundamentally different.  The labels usually don't help though, better to focus on behaviors and how they affect us.

So consider this: before we're born and slightly thereafter, we can't distinguish between ourselves and our mother, we're one 'person' to us, which isn't a stretch since we are or just were inside her.  At some point, as we explore ourselves, our mother and the world, it becomes clear that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities.  Normal development of a child involves her taking risks, venturing out into the world, if that only means to the other side of the room initially, getting scared, and running back to mom, and then doing it again.  The fear of abandonment shows up, what if she runs away and comes back and mom's not there?  And the fear of engulfment shows up, what if she gets so close to mom that she disappears into her again, loses herself?  And when the kid gets frustrated with that and acts out, we call it the 'terrible twos', all part of normal development, a detaching from mom to become an autonomous individual, to become a 'self'.

For a variety of reasons a borderline never does that, never weathers the 'abandonment depression' as it's called, letting go of that symbiotic relationship with mom for good, so they keep banging up against it for a lifetime; get too close, push away, get too far away, pull back.  Point being, without a fully formed 'self' of their own, a borderline must continue to attach to other people to complete themselves, someone suffering from the disorder can report that they don't 'exist' at all without an attachment, so that was a long winded way of explaining why your ex feels 'emptiness'.

It also explains lying.  If you don't feel like you exist at all, how could you consider yourself an equal with whomever you're with?  If you're just 'yourself', which doesn't exist anyway and is unstable and constantly changing, and you express that openly to someone, they will freak out and leave, they will like you as little as you like yourself, and they will leave, abandon you, and abandonment is the worst thing that could ever happen to a borderline, a replaying of that original situation with mom.  So if that's the case you're going to lie your ass off, it's all a game designed to keep someone from leaving, because open and honest just isn't good enough, you're not good enough, and people will leave.  Sucky place to be, and no amount of convincing from someone else will have any effect; such is the life of a borderline.
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And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make
McGahee21
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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2015, 11:41:07 AM »

man thats sad. 


what is so scary or what is inside that is so scary to be honest about? what is so bad about a BPD being herself?

is her core reality simply self-centered and therefore because of social conditioning, this is something she wont open up about.

because her persona has always been like what i have said around her, or my hobbies.

e.g.-  man i need to lift weights today.  her- i want to start lifting weights...

eg i think you can have anyone you want sarah.    her-  ( when arguing)- you know i can have anyone i want so you better not push it because you are out of chances

like her personality and content of her persona is who she is around
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2015, 12:01:10 PM »

Quote
what is so scary or what is inside that is so scary to be honest about? what is so bad about a BPD being herself?

Quote
is her core reality simply self-centered and therefore because of social conditioning, this is something she wont open up about.

It's not necessarily scary, it's just not there.  It's tough to get your head around what it would be like to not have a fully formed "self" of your own, so what's there is unstable and constantly changing.  Most folks go through ups and downs and experience all kinds of emotions, but who we "are" under all that is relatively constant.  For borderlines it's not, it's a mental illness.  And she couldn't articulate it like that, unless she's had lots of therapy.

Quote
like her personality and content of her persona is who she is around

Yep, that's mirroring.  A borderline will mirror the good they see in someone to affect an attachment yes, but also to assume that part of the other person as their own, to "complete" themselves, their "self", by psychically fusing with another person.

Standard borderline there, apply as needed to your gal, and with that additional information you will get new realizations of what really went on in your relationship, and most importantly what part you played and what you're going to do about it now.  Take care of you!
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And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make
McGahee21
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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2015, 12:21:44 PM »

If she had an unstable childhood and was raped when a teenager, could this trigger BPD?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2015, 12:37:07 PM »

If she had an unstable childhood and was raped when a teenager, could this trigger BPD?

The clinical version is the disorder starts much earlier than that, in the first few years of life before cognitive reasoning is possible, and gets hardwired into the personality as it develops.  It may not show up in behaviors until much later, and everyone's different.  Mental health professionals don't want to diagnose anyone under 18 with a personality disorder either, too young.

But really, for us, folks who found our way here, we did so because we started reading things that we could have written, eerily similar these behaviors, and while knowledge of the clinical side can help, and give us compassion for folks with the living hell that is BPD, in the end it's the behaviors and how they affected us, what we made it all mean, and what we're going to do about it now.
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And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make
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