What eventually happens to them?

[Sabine]

My exBPDbf is 47 yrs old who has never been married, bad r/ss across the board, no kids, very few 'friends', basically a loner... .so what happens to them? Obviously, nobody can predict the future, but does their disorder intensify and make them more desperate to be with someone or do they just go on in and out of dysfunctional r/s until they die? Do they ever give up on finding 'the one'? Does anybody know a BPD that is say, 80? WTH are they like then?

It's really a horrifying thought... .?

[myopictopic]

Obviously, nobody can predict the future, but does their disorder intensify and make them more desperate to be with someone or do they just go on in and out of dysfunctional r/s until they die?

The second one. The dysfunctional life style continues ad-nauseum until they make the desicion to get better. Until then they will live their reckless unstable lives as long as they possible can. Of course this sounds horrible to someone without a mental illness. We would be miserable in that position. But the fact of the matter is most of them don't think there is anything wrong with them and are perfectly happy being the way they are... .until the emotional suffering become to overwhelming, at which point the shift the blame for their turmoil so that it becomes someone else's fault, and once again nothing is wrong with them, it's just everyone else who's causing thier suffering.

[oceanblue]

It's sad - but I have read the suicide rate for people with BPD is 10-15%.  Not sure if that is true - but I'm sure a lot of them reach crisis at some point and end up hospitalized or worse.   Some might end up with a dysfunctional partner and stay in that relationship for a lifetime.  There are a lot of people who post on the "staying" board.  BPDs are often skilled survivors and there are lots of people willing to be in a relationship with them, as we were at one point.  A lot probably depends on how well they function.

[Why Why Why]

They become more and more alone, even if they are with someone.  They continue to go from one relationship to another, destroying each one and digging their hole of mental illness deeper.  At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex.  That's when they hit rock bottom and truly are alone.  At this stage you'll probably find them walking in parks mumbling to themselves. 

[slipker]

 BPD ex friend is now 76 years old. N/C for almost two years now ,my decision. He was a needy , pathetic mess and lived in a fantasy world. He didn't realize he was an old man. Wanted a "relationship" with much younger women. Grasping for any attention and manipulative to the extreme to get it. I have no idea what he is up to now, but my gut tells me that he is trying his hardest to find someone, anyone, to burden with his illness. Someone to take on his neediness, make them the keeper of his desperation for connection with an "other" and feed his complete lack of self. He once told me that he couldn't live without a woman in his life, and that I was the "only real woman friend he had left in this world". Well, no wonder!  I had no desire to be an " object" or some fantasy that he needed to "live". I believe that they become isolated and alone and spend their last years ruminating on what might have been and what they wished they had... .never content or happy with what life is all about. He didn't feel content with his wife, children or grandkids. He was a victim of his choices and perceptions, and never got what he really wanted out of life. And he had a good one, but was unable to appreciate any of it. 

[1stand10]

My stbx uBPDw came from a family of uBPDs.  Her mother, aunt and grandmother.  She has a half sister that is ironically what I believe is a half BPD (BPD light I believe is the term).  Her aunt committed suicide when she was in her late 40s.  They thought it was depression but I believe she made an intentional mess when she shot herself to make someone have to clean up her remains and feel sorry for her.  Brutal, I know. 

Her mother has been married 5 times and is still married but separated from her current husband and living with the grandmother.  The MIL was the first one I noticed that something was different (red flags) because of splitting, over spending and cheating.  The only reason she lives with the grandmother is because she can't keep a steady job.  I believe she is in her mid 50s.  I don't know what she is doing now because I went NC with her back in 2008.

The grandmother abandoned her family while her girls were teens.  They have only made up the past 15 years but it has all been rocky.  Now the grandmother has declared bankruptcy so many times I lost count.  She is in her mid 70s and doesn't date.  Her "targets" are her dogs and my MIL.  She treats her dogs like they are human and she even paints the dogs black.

My stbx's father told me that stbx has crashed twice as fast as her mother.  He said he always felt like my stbx was at risk but we both did a good job of hiding most of it.  STBX's behavior has only surfaced to the public since June this year when I found out she cheated. 

So, do they get better.  In my observations... .no.

[Calmdown]

Sabine,

I wonder the same thing. My dBPDw was married in her late teen years, had 2 children. In 2002 had another child. Then had our child in 2007. 4 kids... 3 different fathers (including me). She was surrounded by family that cared for her with her 1st husband... threw that away... then with her ex... threw that away... and now with me same thing.  Where will she end up? Will she have another child?  ... .who knows. I dont think she knows either.

I need to stop thinking about her (easier said than done though) and focus on what I'm going to do next... so many wasted thoughts...    

[Gowest]

At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex. 

Impossible. Based on observing my grandmother, there is always going to be someone around they can sink their claws into. She was a complete wreck physically and mentally but she always managed to find a lonely old white knight with mother issues to take care of her.

She did get worse as she aged, for sure. But she didn't die alone.

[zoso80]

Box sexes end up alone.

They both turn into hermits and the women additionally keep their kids close to them to satisfy their BPD. Afterall, BPDm's own their children and their children are there to serve them, validate them, be their emotional and physical caretakers... .the list goes on.

Some have said many BPD women deliberately and even plan "gotcha" pregnancies to have children. They then isolate and poison the well with the other parent. Now they have this little copy of themselves just to them who will never be able to fully get away.

I would agree.

[Realization]

My 47-year old uBPDxh left the house July 2010 and moved in with a "new" GF in August 2010.  I don't see him accomplishing much by the time he's in his 70's, 80's or 50's, really, since she supports him as he collects unemployment (has since October).

I know his live-in is a band-aid over his uBPD and you can ask him and he'll tell you, the 20-year marriage broke down because of me and everything I did/wouldn't do.

His family members are just as unstable in many aspects of addictions and he'll be soon to follow as he 'matures' since his addictions were surfacing the past 3-years (again, my fault).

Interesting to hear what others say if they know someone who's elderly and afflicted... .

[zoso80]

I would say that one size fits all doesn't apply to most any discussion.

The trend my DxBPDgf is on, yes, she's been rejected by many people. No real friends.  Before me her partner pool was degrading to the point where she was living in camping trailers with no power.

I only gave her a chance because of who she said she was and who I thought she was, which of course was a case of mirroring. She told a great tale to hook me.

Lonely elderly men I can see easily being snookered. They are alone and want to go out with a smile on their face. Little do they know, being lonely is the hook the BPD in their twilight years can play very well.

I'll rephrase and say generally, they end up alone.

At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex.  

Impossible. Based on observing my grandmother, there is always going to be someone around they can sink their claws into. She was a complete wreck physically and mentally but she always managed to find a lonely old white knight with mother issues to take care of her.

She did get worse as she aged, for sure. But she didn't die alone.

[sea5045]

At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex. 

Impossible. Based on observing my grandmother, there is always going to be someone around they can sink their claws into. She was a complete wreck physically and mentally but she always managed to find a lonely old white knight with mother issues to take care of her.

She did get worse as she aged, for sure. But she didn't die alone.

I read somewhere that as there looks fade and as there ability to seduce fades, they become more emotionally dysregulated, as you both are saying.

[argyle]

Meh... .there are a bunch of possible directions... .

Some become hermits.

Some just keep flitting from R/S to R/S.

Some actually learn and go into remission.  (Nearly everyone learns to stop certain dysfunctional behaviors after the world delivers _enough_ face punches. This is one of the biggest problems with being a caretaker.)

Some kill themselves.

Some end up in prison or psychiatric institutions.

Some have kids and exploit them to keep someone close to their illness. (blech)

Some meet a really codependent caretaker type and proceed to make them miserable.

Some meet an NPD and are brutally beaten for the rest of their lives. BPD is not that much of a disadvantage to a sociopath.

Some meet a fairly codependent caretaker type, make them miserable for a while, and then the caretaker wakes up, starts being healthier, and they end up in a livable R/S.

Some take such bad care of themselves that they just die early.

My impression is that these outcomes are all on the 10% level, very roughly, but I really haven't looked into it. Personally, I think their suffering is unfortunate and costly.  But, I would bear in mind that, to some extent, BPD traits are probably a survival advantage. Emotionless cyborgs don't have many children. Crazy emotionally volatile people do... .

--Argyle

[jhan6120]

They become more and more alone, even if they are with someone.  They continue to go from one relationship to another, destroying each one and digging their hole of mental illness deeper.  At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex.  That's when they hit rock bottom and truly are alone.  At this stage you'll probably find them walking in parks mumbling to themselves. 

Oh. My. God. This is exactly what I see every day in NYC!

Many 'experts' and books say that BPD lessens with age. However, EVERYONE in the mental health field I've spoken to says it gets worse. Both a good friend of mine with a lot of experience and my T gave the EXACT description you gave! They reach an age where they can't attract the opposite sex as much and their seduction games don't work; hence, they have no way to treat their emotional dysregulation through sex, attachments, etc . . .

I see these women all over NYC, walking their little dogs down the street, muttering to themselves. They could be wearing tattered Channel or garbage bags; same difference.

[diotima]

Everyone I have talked to in the mental health field said that untreated BPD gets worse with age. There are cases of more impulse control, which may be what the stuff on the Internet is referring to, and of course there are degrees of severity of BPD.

Diotima

[trax]

My mom ?PD, mostly N in my opinion, but has traits of BPD for sure.

67 years old, been divorced 5 times, still seducing men and doing whatever the hell she pleases.  No one in the family speaks to her.  She has one male friend shes had for years, but I assume its more of an unrequited love thing than a friendship.  

My mother started buying rental property early in life.  She loves being a landlord, so much power, so much control over other people!  My T and she thinks the tenants are my mother's narcissistic feed.  Plenty of people to cause drama for, always someone to think she is fantastic because she repainted the bathroom, .  She will probably be just fine as she ages because of this setup.

She has said that if she ever gets sick and has to depend on someone to take care of her she will off herself.  She even has a plan.  Yuck!

And I have to about the dog triangulation (read definition) post!  Totally my mother.  I finally went NC when she started triangulating (read definition) her dog and my daughter  

[diotima]

Trax, my ex's mother was a BPD and after her husband died, she never remarried and was left very well off financially. She didn't do the cheating, etc. But she was horrendous! Lots of N. It was totally exhausting to be around her. I think what got worse was just the intensity of her self-preoccupation and loudness and everything else. If she had had to support herself she would not have survived. She sucked her kids dry--but my ex got away from her pretty early on. However, he is more like her than any of the other kids are. The other two siblings do not appear to be BPDs even if one of them is really messed up by having been devoured by mommy dearest. (She died early this year.) We took her to an assisted living place as she was getting on in years and the guy who interviewed her and us admitted he had never encountered anything like this before.

Diotima

[larissap]

I think it is right that one size does not fit all and entirely depends on the level and type of BPD/PD.  My ex is very high functioning.  Has a job that pays heaps and is doing very very well financially (not least because he got far more than he should from our property settlment!).

he has found a gf who has some sort of problem herself, must have, from what has been said and done by her.  She has joined him in fighting me and i am of course btch ex wife of the century. 

He still has a reasonable relationship with our sons because he likes playing 'superdad' with them most of the time.  They are too young to see through him most of the time.  He is 45.  His good looks are fading and I have no idea if he has continued cheating on his gf like he did on me.  He was a sex addict and I don't believe leopards change their spots but that is something I will never know.

He appears to all intents and purposes to have a successful life.  Money (heaps) girlfriend, part time children when he can play disney dad, a good job and good life.  So it is hard for me to see him wandering the park mumbling, although I really would like that to happen to him!  I think he may continue with an outwardly succesful life, but it is his inner life that is where the black awful stuff must be happening.

I also wonder when the children are older and he can't take his rage and hatred out on me if he will turn on the gf (who has been with him over 3 years - and doing very well lifestyle and financially out of him!)

I don't know what will happen to mine, if he will get worst or what.  I just think that the high functioning ones, or ones with different PDs (I think he may be NPD or ASPD - one of the cluster B's not sure which would be the dominant diagnosis) have different outcomes.

His mother has something wrong with her too, but don't know enough about women BPD's to be sure, but she has a reasonably succesful life, her kids are all very enmeshed in her life and still see her a lot (my ex included) however not many of her 7 son/daughter in laws want much to do with her!

I don't think they all end up a messy unsuccesful life, just some.

My 2c worth!

[oceanblue]

I agree that probably a lot of them end up ok and many others end up even better.  It doesn't matter.  I have met many rich, miserable people in my life. 

The gift of my BPD relationship was to learn what was important to me and my happiness.  I would rather be with someone honest and caring and who has time for me.  That type of person is unlikely to be a CEO and I am fine with that.

My BPDbf was high functioning when I met him but I enabled his unemployment and hermit tendancies and he became low functioning.  If offered the opportunity to look in the crystal ball and see how he ends up - I probably would take a glance but I am much more concerned on how I end up and my happy future.

[larissap]

IIf offered the opportunity to look in the crystal ball and see how he ends up - I probably would take a glance but I am much more concerned on how I end up and my happy future.

Ocean Blue you are right.  It shouldn't really concern us what they end up like, it is ourselves that is more important.  But it isn't that easy to let go, to not care.  Depends on length of the relationship and in my case the fact we have kids together. Every time there has to be communication over something (which for him is very often) it is like reopening the wound.  It never really gets a chance to heal and wont until the kids are older. And even then you can never entirely get them out of your lives, unfortunately.  And so I probably will hear how mine ends up because the children will still be involved with him.

[newlife3]

 Its a chronic mental illness, so left untreated their brain chemistry will deteriorate and they become worse... Some of their impulsive behaviours they have when younger, may slow down with age and be replaced with others... Some end up alone, others manage to control their families...

Check out the Adults Children Coping with BPD Parent board on this site, its pretty tragic...

Another reason to be thankful, that nons can grieve and create happy, satisfying lives...

[SOOOdone]

hate to sound callous, but I am not too worried about the future of someone who behaved in such hurtful ways.

And to say "he couldn't help it... .he has mental illness"  is bunk... .he knew when not to do certain things at work or if something was important to him.

He often quoted Shakespeare (gag me now... .)  with "we are the architects of our own destinies... ." or something like that. He was right.

All aside, BPDs have different outcomes. Some get help and hopefully become Narcissists. Some lose testosterone and just become miserable, complaining old men. Some lose estrogen and become demanding, miserable parents.

Some spend 10-20 years in therapy and become productive and loving citizens.

Depends WHEN they are treated, IF they want it, IF they have the capacity to tolerate it and have insight.  The world is FULL of BPDs in all walks of life. Some seem to ENJOY their misery... .gives them some purpose and a relationship gives them something to oppose and complain about.

However they turn out... .If they aren't paying me per hour I really don't have much desire to deal with all the baggage that comes with them anymore.

[Zena321]

MAYBE they are the DIRTY OLD MEN of the world and the Little OLD LADIES who peer out their curtains the BUSYBODIES who are constantly watching for someone to yell at or call the police on because they are LONELY and have nothing better to do ?

                     ;p

[jhan6120]

Hang out in downtown NYC and just watch anyone in their late 30's and up. Guaranteed one out of 5 is BPD.

[diotima]

hate to sound callous, but I am not too worried about the future of someone who behaved in such hurtful ways.

I agree with SD. If they become dysregulated and can't control their impulses, they still know they did something wrong later. My empathy is for the people they are going to hurt. At this point I am still having   thoughts about my ex.

Diotima

[jhan6120]

Like people here have said, at some point, after much therapy (years) they'll be able to control their impulses a bit, but at a certain point in life, what you see is what you get. BPD is part of a person's CORE. Very hard, if not near impossible, to change that.

Is it surprising that most PWBPD are physically attractive? Pretty people get away with a lot more in our culture. My ex basically relied on her physical attractiveness and promiscuity to get through life, but as she edges into her early 40's, it's getting harder for her. She's definitely a Crazy Cat Lady in the making.

[diotima]

Many of them are very physically attractive. My ex is not. He is overweight and bald. However, he is totally charming--beyond belief. So he sucks people in. Grrrrrh.

Diotima

[jhan6120]

Many of them are very physically attractive. My ex is not. He is overweight and bald. However, he is totally charming--beyond belief. So he sucks people in. Grrrrrh.

Diotima

Mine looks like the old comic strip character Vampirella. Actually she turned out to BE Vampirella!

[trax]

My mother is very attractive, even at 67 she has the whole ageless beauty thing going on.  When she is "on" she really lights up the room.  

My xh WAS attractive, but is now about 100 pounds overweight.  He still attracts tons of ladies though and I'm sure he is not concerned about my opinion!

[diotima]

Just curious: how old is your 100lbs overweight ex who is attracting a lot of ladies? Just wanna compare notes... .

D

[Willy]

It stands to reason that in general pwBPD get more alone the older they get, either by choice or because of their action. If I look at my ex, I haven't seen somebody burn so many bridges in so little time. When me (re)met, she had it sort of together, now she is in a dark place. Getting closer to 30 was huge for her. She must have realized her life is not going anywhere. Her attractiveness was everything to her. A miracle is needed for her to be part of a happy family.

[jhan6120]

It stands to reason that in general pwBPD get more alone the older they get, either by choice or because of their action. If I look at my ex, I haven't seen somebody burn so many bridges in so little time. When me (re)met, she had it sort of together, now she is in a dark place. Getting closer to 30 was huge for her. She must have realized her life is not going anywhere. Her attractiveness was everything to her. A miracle is needed for her to be part of a happy family.

Imagine how they start to look when they hit their early 40's. That's where my ex udBPDgf is now. She was Playboy hot when I knew her in college. (She was acutally asked to be in Playboy). Now she's starting to look like an anvil that's been pounded too many times. (Sorry for the crude imagery, but there it is.) She's becoming anorexic, her face looks ten years older than it is, and her shoulders are transforming into a permanent hump. She lives on nicoteine, caffeine and sugar, and she barely eats. Plus, she still dresses like she's 20.  But she has a lot of nice STUFF, you know? Louboutin boots, Marc Jacobs, Gucci, an apartment in a luxury building and a Mercedes (that her dad might or not have paid for). All that STUFF does her a lot of good, right? It'll come in handy when she becomes a crazy cat lady.

I think that the combination of personal hell and physical (sexual) abuse that PWBPD put themselves through has a much harder toll on women BPD's, at least physically. Combine this reality with the fact that nature is not as kind to women on the aging front as it is to men, along with the sad reality that our culture is harder on women when it comes to physical appearance. And finally, there's the sexual double standard that society applies to women. I believe that female PWBPD have an added element of SHAME that male PWBPD don't have when it comes to this, which contributes to their emotional dysregulation, which in turn makes female BPD's even WORSE as they get older and their relationship options become more limited due to decresed sexual appeal.

IMO, and this is really is just MY OPINION, it's much easier for women to be INSANE and get by in the world if they're attractive. As long as a woman is very attractive, most men don't seem to care. But then there's that aging thing . . .

Imagine this conversation between two 25 year old men:

"Who's that nut-job?"

"I don't know, but she's hot."

Now imagine this conversation between two 38 year old men:

"Who's that nut-job?"

"I don't know, but she looks pretty beat up. Let's get another beer."

There you go.

IMO, female BPD's don't have to work on their 'schtick' to hard, because they can take advantage of male sexuality, which is primarily visual. They can kind of just stand there and let things happen.

Male BPD's, on the other hand, DO have to work on their 'schtick,' because female sexuality is much different. It doesn't matter how good looking a man is; no woman is going to jump into bed with him if he just stands there. He has to SAY something. And so, he works on his game. Male BPD's probably develop a huge arsenal of CHARM from years of doing this, which is why they can keep bedding women well into middle age, regardless of how they look.

Regardless, this isn't a rationalization. We're all reponsible for our own behaviors. Some people look weather-beaten and some don't. There are people who look weather-beaten because they spent their lives on the sea or running marathons or climbing mountains, and people who look weather-beaten because they've slept with half of NYC and have lived with untreated mental illness for 42 years.

And then there's the weather-beaten aspect of their emotional states. I'm convinced that they get worse from a combination of biology and life-consequences. When I picture how my ex is starting to look like on the OUTSIDE,  I can only imagine what the INSIDE looks like. Can you see cancer of the soul on an MRI?

[Willy]

Good points J. I was with my ex when she was between 24 and 27. If I look at the difference now, its huge! She lost her youthfulness in no time and looks much more like a tramp now (sorry to say). The constant emotional turmoil, bad eating habit, weird sleeping habits, smoking two packs a day, drinking two bottles of wine a day, sniffing 1 gram a day and the occasional pill, well, you can see the toll. Also her behavior changed a lot (that of course could also be the result of alcohol and drugs).

After her eviction she now lives in a holiday cabin with a pothead who is just out of jail with at least one case of physical abuse. She also went back to stripping. She could have had it all (without me trying to be arrogant). But that would be too boring for her, as she needs drama, chaos and I would almost say humiliation. She was the submissive kind. Wondering where she will be in three years... .It can't be good.

[harlemgurl]

Can you see cancer of the soul on an MRI?

Forget the outside; the inside is who they truly are. It's the inside that's insidiously UGLY. Everything else: the kissing cousins of shallow and superficial. My ex is extremely good looking and well endowed to boot but he's still the biggest jerk I've ever met in my life. All of that inner turmoil, rage, negativity, anger, low self-worth and zero sense of self keeps them on the permanent path to self-destruction. Looks can only go but so far but they never keep anybody because beauty is only skin deep.

No one on here can predict the future but they are their own emotional cancer and its a pretty sad existence if you ask me. The question of what happens to them should really be asked of ourselves. What will happen to us if we don't work on our co-dependency issues? What will become of us if we don't grow ourselves out of emotional dysfunction? What will happen to us if we don't learn the lessons that we need to learn from this experience? What will happen to us if we don't commit to desiring emotionally healthy love?

I'm so exhausted in caring about them. Yeah they're sick... .but I just want to remind everyone that we are just as important as they are.

HG

[jhan6120]

Can you see cancer of the soul on an MRI?

Forget the outside; the inside is who they truly are. It's the inside that's insidiously UGLY. Everything else: the kissing cousins of shallow and superficial. My ex is extremely good looking and well endowed to boot but he's still the biggest jerk I've ever met in my life. All of that inner turmoil, rage, negativity, anger, low self-worth and zero sense of self keeps them on the permanent path to self-destruction. Looks can only go but so far but they never keep anybody because beauty is only skin deep.

No one on here can predict the future but they are their own emotional cancer and its a pretty sad existence if you ask me. The question of what happens to them should really be asked of ourselves. What will happen to us if we don't work on our co-dependency issues? What will become of us if we don't grow ourselves out of emotional dysfunction? What will happen to us if we don't learn the lessons that we need to learn from this experience? What will happen to us if we don't commit to desiring emotionally healthy love?

I'm so exhausted in caring about them. Yeah they're sick... .but I just want to remind everyone that we are just as important as they are.

HG

Once again you're on point, HG.

This week I'm gonna look into volunteering in a retirement home. Why? Because I'm an awesome guy with a lot to offer. I want to bring some joy and comfort to people who deserve it. I already tried throwing my 'good' at a worthless skank; let's see if I can turn it around.

[redberry]

Good for you jhan.  I'm volunteering for a service organization and it's helping both to take my mind away from him and to remind me that there are people who appreciate what I have to offer who deserve my kindness more than he ever did.

[SOOOdone]

I'm on Harlemgurl's train.

Looks? It's amazing to me how to me, he looked great when I trusted and loved him... .

and how he started to resemble an orangutan when I felt the way I did at the end. I'm sure he felt the same way with me, as he said "you don't look the same as when we met." I don't. I shouldn't! Why would I?

I am also far more concerned with my relationship future. Will I be able to become attracted to someone that enhances my life without chaos (note that I didn't say that this one didn't enhance my life... .just not in the way that I envisioned or want to repeat)

I am more concerned with how much more time I want to spend thinking about this past relationship and wondering what he is or isn't doing/feeling/thinking. Because although it was four years and although I cared and loved a person... .it's over.

And I think the "it's over" part is the hard one to fully embrace for a lot of us. IT'S OVER. Doesn't matter if they loved us, didn't love us, cheated, acted nice, showed affection, liked the same tacos we did... .it's over. Doesn't matter who left who. Doesn't matter that they have BPD when it comes right down to it... .it's over. The reason we recycle them is because we haven't fully accepted that it was over to begin with. Once a person moves on, it's rare that the old relationship is something we'd want again. And I, for one, know this and this is what's kept me from keeping NC in the past... .I didn't WANT to move on because I didn't WANT it to be OVER.

Well, that's just me... .

[jhan6120]

I'm on Harlemgurl's train.

Looks? It's amazing to me how to me, he looked great when I trusted and loved him... .

and how he started to resemble an orangutan when I felt the way I did at the end. I'm sure he felt the same way with me, as he said "you don't look the same as when we met." I don't. I shouldn't! Why would I?

I am also far more concerned with my relationship future. Will I be able to become attracted to someone that enhances my life without chaos (note that I didn't say that this one didn't enhance my life... .just not in the way that I envisioned or want to repeat)

I am more concerned with how much more time I want to spend thinking about this past relationship and wondering what he is or isn't doing/feeling/thinking. Because although it was four years and although I cared and loved a person... .it's over.

And I think the "it's over" part is the hard one to fully embrace for a lot of us. IT'S OVER. Doesn't matter if they loved us, didn't love us, cheated, acted nice, showed affection, liked the same tacos we did... .it's over. Doesn't matter who left who. Doesn't matter that they have BPD when it comes right down to it... .it's over. The reason we recycle them is because we haven't fully accepted that it was over to begin with. Once a person moves on, it's rare that the old relationship is something we'd want again. And I, for one, know this and this is what's kept me from keeping NC in the past... .I didn't WANT to move on because I didn't WANT it to be OVER.

Well, that's just me... .

Is it hard because they made such an impact in our lives, even if the overall impact was negative? My ex went through my life like a steamroller in a matter of ten months. It's like she tattooed herself on my brain. Very cinematic. She should have had her own theme music.

[C12P21]

Another reason to be thankful, that nons can grieve and create happy, satisfying lives...

A good friend of mine works as a mental health professional and is a psychiatrist that assesses patients in mental health units. We were discussing BPD (I have never mentioned the disorder or what I suspect of my exNPDbf) as he had a rough week in assessing two BPD patients. He stated they are very difficult to work with or to try to come up with a treatment plan because they are all over the charts, manipulative, and not aware of their real emotions. The deep down feelings or events that led them to being placed in a treatment facility can disappear overnight and the next day they are feeling fine and wanting to be released. He also went on about how charming they can be and how they create havoc in their life, the lives of friends, and have no moral conscience about the destruction they create unless they accept they have a mental illness and work very hard to change and control their emotions. He stated most are overwhelmed by their emotions but are terrified to express in a healthy manner what they are feeling and usually are rendered incapacitated to rationally assess a situation or conversation as their perceptions are skewed. They become worse in time-not in terms of acting out as much as the need for control and paranoia. He also stated the disorder is  better recognized and that modern life makes it increasingly difficult to hide the disorder-more awareness AND the complexity of modern life frustrates pwBPD as they lack the skills/ability to make complicated choices that require reflection and self awareness.

I then asked him about my exbf... and he looked at me and said "that guy was BPD, with narcissistic tendencies, and I suspect a sociopath-he was without a doubt in the AXIS two category, I am glad you got away from him and it is so good to see how you are changing-you have stopped doubting yourself".

Wow.

[jhan6120]

Another reason to be thankful, that nons can grieve and create happy, satisfying lives...

A good friend of mine works as a mental health professional and is a psychiatrist that assesses patients in mental health units. We were discussing BPD (I have never mentioned the disorder or what I suspect of my exNPDbf) as he had a rough week in assessing two BPD patients. He stated they are very difficult to work with or to try to come up with a treatment plan because they are all over the charts, manipulative, and not aware of their real emotions. The deep down feelings or events that led them to being placed in a treatment facility can disappear overnight and the next day they are feeling fine and wanting to be released. He also went on about how charming they can be and how they create havoc in their life, the lives of friends, and have no moral conscience about the destruction they create unless they accept they have a mental illness and work very hard to change and control their emotions. He stated most are overwhelmed by their emotions but are terrified to express in a healthy manner what they are feeling and usually are rendered incapacitated to rationally assess a situation or conversation as their perceptions are skewed. They become worse in time-not in terms of acting out as much as the need for control and paranoia. He also stated the disorder is  better recognized and that modern life makes it increasingly difficult to hide the disorder-more awareness AND the complexity of modern life frustrates pwBPD as they lack the skills/ability to make complicated choices that require reflection and self awareness.

I then asked him about my exbf... and he looked at me and said "that guy was BPD, with narcissistic tendencies, and I suspect a sociopath-he was without a doubt in the AXIS two category, I am glad you got away from him and it is so good to see how you are changing-you have stopped doubting yourself".

Wow.

Wow indeed. That is an amazing story.

[diotima]

The reason we recycle them is because we haven't fully accepted that it was over to begin with. Once a person moves on, it's rare that the old relationship is something we'd want again. And I, for one, know this and this is what's kept me from keeping NC in the past... .I didn't WANT to move on because I didn't WANT it to be OVER.

That rings true for me too. I really didn't want it to be over, especially with the first recycle. The third time I was pretty much over him and he begged to come back and was wonderful and pulled the shttiest crap imaginable (probably it is imaginable here) and got me worse than all the other times put together. Uncanny.

C12P12: Excellent post about your experience with the health professionals. I know my ex definitely got worse in terms of control issues. Yes, good we all got away.

Diotima

[ve01603]

They become more and more alone, even if they are with someone.  They continue to go from one relationship to another, destroying each one and digging their hole of mental illness deeper.  At some point their looks fade and they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex.  That's when they hit rock bottom and truly are alone.  At this stage you'll probably find them walking in parks mumbling to themselves. 

To be totally honest, that's what I kind of figured.

[jhan6120]

The reason we recycle them is because we haven't fully accepted that it was over to begin with. Once a person moves on, it's rare that the old relationship is something we'd want again. And I, for one, know this and this is what's kept me from keeping NC in the past... .I didn't WANT to move on because I didn't WANT it to be OVER.

That rings true for me too. I really didn't want it to be over, especially with the first recycle. The third time I was pretty much over him and he begged to come back and was wonderful and pulled the shttiest crap imaginable (probably it is imaginable here) and got me worse than all the other times put together. Uncanny.

C12P12: Excellent post about your experience with the health professionals. I know my ex definitely got worse in terms of control issues. Yes, good we all got away.

Diotima

I've heard over and over and over that it just gets worse with each recycle. My personal experience lends credence to that theory.

[sea5045]

The reason we recycle them is because we haven't fully accepted that it was over to begin with. Once a person moves on, it's rare that the old relationship is something we'd want again. And I, for one, know this and this is what's kept me from keeping NC in the past... .I didn't WANT to move on because I didn't WANT it to be OVER.

That rings true for me too. I really didn't want it to be over, especially with the first recycle. The third time I was pretty much over him and he begged to come back and was wonderful and pulled the shttiest crap imaginable (probably it is imaginable here) and got me worse than all the other times put together. Uncanny.

C12P12: Excellent post about your experience with the health professionals. I know my ex definitely got worse in terms of control issues. Yes, good we all got away.

Diotima

I've heard over and over and over that it just gets worse with each recycle. My personal experience lends credence to that theory.

After seeing my ex this past weekend I found out she was telling the owner how she had to move because I drank too much, not that she could not find a job and her brother had to get it for her while I financially supported her for 10 months.  So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

[zoso80]

Someone who I can't recall their name said - "If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you."

I wholeheartedly agree. Since they cannot mentally introspect to any successful degree, learn and take responsibility for their failings - blaming the "bad" people works wonderfully to re-enforce their BPD.

They make sure the world knows they are a wonderful person who is just persecuted. It's the hook they use going to their next victim.

 

My DxBPDgf painted me and continues to paint me so black, the color black would quiver in fear. I am worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad Tepes, Joseph Stalin and Jeffery Dahlmer.

So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

[sea5045]

Someone who I can't recall their name said - "If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you."

I wholeheartedly agree. Since they cannot mentally introspect to any successful degree, learn and take responsibility for their failings - blaming the "bad" people works wonderfully to re-enforce their BPD.

They make sure the world knows they are a wonderful person who is just persecuted. It's the hook they use going to their next victim.

 

My DxBPDgf painted me and continues to paint me so black, the color black would quiver in fear. I am worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad Tepes, Joseph Stalin and Jeffery Dahlmer.

So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

Thanks I was so hurt, I have never said she had to move away because she lost her teaching career and her brother got her a job. Go to chicago and talk bad about me, don't do it here. People are standing up for me but for god's sake I'm 55, never had an ex, and never got trash talked in the bar.

[zoso80]

*sigh* It sure is a terrible thing to endure, the black painting, the smears and the airing of private matters for the BPD's public gain. It's psychological warfare. Normal adults, we just say "it didn't work" and try to move on, letting it go. If only we could be so lucky!

We are war criminals to the BPD for leaving. I tried to explain to my DxBPDgf why our relationship wasn't working and that it wasn't healthy for anyone. She didn't want to hear it. She wanted "her family back." At what cost? SD8's mental health? My mental health? Additionally, in the meantime, she was painting me black and had been for months to all willing. Is that a healthy dynamic? Of course not.

Just be who you are, do what you do. It's wonderful to hear people having your back. It shows me that the story she's spinning and the people who know you, they know she's full of it. She is poisoning her own well.

Keep strong, sounds like you have good people in the community! It will subside soon, once she hooks a new victim.

 

Someone who I can't recall their name said - "If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you."

I wholeheartedly agree. Since they cannot mentally introspect to any successful degree, learn and take responsibility for their failings - blaming the "bad" people works wonderfully to re-enforce their BPD.

They make sure the world knows they are a wonderful person who is just persecuted. It's the hook they use going to their next victim.

 

My DxBPDgf painted me and continues to paint me so black, the color black would quiver in fear. I am worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad Tepes, Joseph Stalin and Jeffery Dahlmer.

So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

Thanks I was so hurt, I have never said she had to move away because she lost her teaching career and her brother got her a job. Go to chicago and talk bad about me, don't do it here. People are standing up for me but for god's sake I'm 55, never had an ex, and never got trash talked in the bar.

[redberry]

If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you.

Ohhh how true.  I realize now that EVERYTHING about the relationship was what I could do for him?  I did 95% of the giving.  He threw me a crumb here and there just to keep me on the hook, but he knew what he was doing.  When I was spending so much time and $ on him and giving him sex whenever he wanted it, I didn't realize I was being used, used, used.  That's all it was about.  Love = need for them.  Oh I filled a need alright.  Whose needs were starved to exhaustion?  Raises hand.

[georgie girl]

it's odd you should say that redberry

Love = need for them.

before mine walked out i persuaded him to go to couple counselling and the one thing he kept saying was he did love me because he needed me!  he didn't like it that i said I loved him but I didnt need him (I tried to explain that I didnt need him because if he wasnt there i would survive but i wanted him because i loved him).  I said to him love being needing is more what happens with a small child - they need you and love is tied up in the needing but with adults i thought it was healthier to not need someone.  he raged about me saying this a lot after that.  i started to doubt my own beliefs. still do.  ?

[zoso80]

*raises hand*

Right there with you sister. Friends of mine commented that everything that who I was, they could tell was being destroyed from all the toxicity.

Yup, I FULLY get you on neglected needs and being poisoned.

Whose needs were starved to exhaustion?  Raises hand.

[zoso80]

That's awesome you said that to him! The raging afterward sucked and sounds like he made you pay. I'm impressed with your insight. I wish I had been that far along in understanding what my exBPD was doing. I had inklings, but the big picture came later.

DxBPDgf would get upset because I didn't need her. She took it as I didn't love her. (LOVE = NEED theme again) A partner or a spouse is someone who compliments you and you compliment them. It's not based on need. Instead, it's based on a whole bunch of compatibility factors, life goals and mutual admiration. They are someone to walk with, no to cling to on a daily basis.

She would also whine that the honeymoon phase was so short. Yes it was. Things were already showing to be weird and I was hunkering down. The real BPD was coming out.

I was also terribly shellshocked about that time so processing wasn't my best strength.

If they can't get you to need them, their control will be temporary. If you show independence, and push back it's holy war.  You are damned either way.

A true lose/lose relationship!

I said to him love being needing is more what happens with a small child - they need you and love is tied up in the needing but with adults i thought it was healthier to not need someone. 

[ve01603]

Someone who I can't recall their name said - "If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you."

I wholeheartedly agree. Since they cannot mentally introspect to any successful degree, learn and take responsibility for their failings - blaming the "bad" people works wonderfully to re-enforce their BPD.

They make sure the world knows they are a wonderful person who is just persecuted. It's the hook they use going to their next victim.

 

My DxBPDgf painted me and continues to paint me so black, the color black would quiver in fear. I am worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad Tepes, Joseph Stalin and Jeffery Dahlmer.

So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

You are right because he told me how bad the ones before me had treated him to try to get my sympathy in the beginning.

[jhan6120]

Someone who I can't recall their name said - "If they can't use you, they smear and abuse you."

I wholeheartedly agree. Since they cannot mentally introspect to any successful degree, learn and take responsibility for their failings - blaming the "bad" people works wonderfully to re-enforce their BPD.

They make sure the world knows they are a wonderful person who is just persecuted. It's the hook they use going to their next victim.

 

My DxBPDgf painted me and continues to paint me so black, the color black would quiver in fear. I am worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad Tepes, Joseph Stalin and Jeffery Dahlmer.

So even if they aren't recycling you they are painting an ugly picture.

You are right because he told me how bad the ones before me had treated him to try to get my sympathy in the beginning.

The Victim Game is a classic way that BPD's use to hook people in. The really advanced game is Victim/Seducer. My ex was a pro at this.

[sea5045]

*sigh* It sure is a terrible thing to endure, the black painting, the smears and the airing of private matters for the BPD's public gain. It's psychological warfare. Normal adults, we just say "it didn't work" and try to move on, letting it go. If only we could be so lucky!


Just be who you are, do what you do. It's wonderful to hear people having your back. It shows me that the story she's spinning and the people who know you, they know she's full of it. She is poisoning her own well.

Keep strong, sounds like you have good people in the community! It will subside soon, once she hooks a new victim.

 


Thanks yes, it is true that one person told her to let it go, let me go, that I am dating, I look well, I am finding my way in the community, the other the bar owner said she would tell her to leave as she doesn't live here anymore, I said not necessary, just take my name and number and if she's here I will stay away.

Saw my therapist today, cried it through, and the sad part is they open these core wounds from childhood, mine are not being worthy enough or deserving enough to be treated well, having been invisible to my parents, so attracting and staying too long in things where I tolerate my needs not getting met.  It's going to be along healing process for me.Thanks for support. sea

[Munch]

My h is 60.  He hasn't changed a bit, in fact I think he has gotten worse.  I really think they have a very hard time with aging and the notion of physical death.  I have always been able to joke about life and death and aging - doesn't find it in the least bit funny.  They can't change unless they want to and seek help. 

I sing at church with a tenor who is 74 and I strongly suspect that he has a PD.  He can't take any kind of even what normal people would consider just a comment, as criticism.  I can see how much he suffers if he makes a mistake.  Has boundary issues like crazy and talks incessantly - it's all about him.  He hooked up with a lady at church and they were living together within 2 monthsred-flag  . 

So what I guess I am trying to say is that they don't change, and I guess I find it funny that, with age, we think some kind of light bulb is going to light up   

Munchxo

[diotima]

Munch,

I feel sorry for the woman your church tenor hooked up with. What a trail of carnage they leave in their wake.

Diotima

[Willy]

The Victim Game is a classic way that BPD's use to hook people in. The really advanced game is Victim/Seducer. My ex was a pro at this.

Same here. Mine was a waif/siren and has perfected her game through the years. Sometimes I call her the perfect pwBPD. When we met she was the victim with her landlord. During our relationship she had problems with each one of them (6 in 2 1/2 years!). Of course she never realized she is the common denominator. Also for me it took some time before seeing the pattern and see that there is something terrible wrong with her. No matter how long they can put a facade of a normal person, the craziness has to come out eventually, always.

[jhan6120]

The Victim Game is a classic way that BPD's use to hook people in. The really advanced game is Victim/Seducer. My ex was a pro at this.

Same here. Mine was a waif/siren and has perfected her game through the years. Sometimes I call her the perfect pwBPD. When we met she was the victim with her landlord. During our relationship she had problems with each one of them (6 in 2 1/2 years!). Of course she never realized she is the common denominator. Also for me it took some time before seeing the pattern and see that there is something terrible wrong with her. No matter how long they can put a facade of a normal person, the craziness has to come out eventually, always.

That's a big   for me now: someone who is at war with everyone all the time. I have to watch for that, as it plays into my own codependence.

[Tim300]

They both turn into hermits and the women additionally keep their kids close to them to satisfy their BPD.

I saw this.  My ex-fiancee and her mother both have BPD.  The mother was in her 50s and was an impulsive binge eater and spender.  Because of her age, weight, erratic behavior, and financial shortcomings, I doubt any guy would even take her on a date.  And no woman would be interested in dealing with her childish behavior for long.  Accordingly, she latched onto her daughter, my ex-fiancee -- I mean, intense clinging.  To court my ex-fiancee you would have to almost be in a 3-person relationship with the mother tagging along.  And if you piss off the mother or take up too much of her daughter's time, the mother will try to nix the relationship.  The mother also pays the daughter each month to make sure the daughter stays under her wing (even though the daughter is now in her 30s).  The whole thing is pretty sad.  The daughter will probably be able to squeeze in a couple more failed relationships before she's outside of the marriage market and the two of them will be alone together, fighting each other nonstop for power in a small apartment.  

[Tim300]

they reach a level of mental instability that they can no longer seduce nor attract the opposite sex. 

It's interesting how damaged we get from one toxic relationship with these folks.  Although they are pros of the toxic dance, the trauma of it all must make them radically unstable by the time they're in the mid-30s.   

[Tim300]

Imagine how they start to look when they hit their early 40's.

A lot of the comments here mention looks, and how looks might fade or not with age.  Surely, guys fall for women with looks.  However, where guys really go "all in" with time, money, attention, etc., is when a guy thinks a woman is going to bear his children.  Even if a 36-year-old BPD women is looking hot, she's simply not going to get away with some of the over-the-top BPD behavior she got away with when she was 28, for example.  I think a lot of high-caliber guys treat hot 36-year-olds as one-night stand targets, not as candidates for an engagement ring.   

[Tim300]

the disorder is better recognized and that modern life makes it increasingly difficult to hide the disorder-more awareness . . .

Thank goodness for the Internet -- I think it has literally saved lives in the fallout of BPD relationships.  It is interesting to think that info on BPD has really only become broadly publicly available recently (for example, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" was published in 1989).  I can't imagine the confusion I would be in without all of today's resources.  Just a generation ago people must have been so much more confused about BPD behavior.

[Perfidy]

I have a hunch that what happens to them is exactly what happens to everyone else. They (we) age and die. What happens after that isn't well known. That's where religion and spirituality come in. Do any of us have a claim to lasting happiness? Do any of us not suffer?

The reward for virtue isn't realized in this lifetime other than with a happy, peaceful, loving society. Let me know how that works out. If you look around you see a lot of horrendous happenings in the world in general. Largely were taught that if we consider the world to be unsafe there is something wrong with ourselves. We're lead to believe that the world is good where there are clear instance when it isn't. I definitely see the beauty and marvel in the world. I also see that there is disease and war.

[HappyNihilist]

A lot of the comments here mention looks, and how looks might fade or not with age.  Surely, guys fall for women with looks.  However, where guys really go "all in" with time, money, attention, etc., is when a guy thinks a woman is going to bear his children.  Even if a 36-year-old BPD women is looking hot, she's simply not going to get away with some of the over-the-top BPD behavior she got away with when she was 28, for example.  I think a lot of high-caliber guys treat hot 36-year-olds as one-night stand targets, not as candidates for an engagement ring.   

Wow. You do realize that a lot of people on these boards are women, and not all of us are in our 20s, right? And that this kind of talk is very objectifying?

[CloseToFreedom]

The thing is, when I read all this stuff I'm scared this will happen to ME. It feels like I had a chance of happiness with my ex, we were together and I was planning to ask her to marry me somewhere this year, and start with kids in a few years. However, her behaviour just got worse and worse and I couldn't picture a life next to her anymore. But it still hurts.