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Author Topic: Once a BPD cheats... They always Cheat?  (Read 2795 times)
LifeIsOn
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« on: December 24, 2011, 10:28:13 PM »

Im asking this because my ex pretty much admitted that she has cheated on every single bf she has been with but that was when I was dating her... Idk if she ever personally cheated on me but I know she has emotionally cheated on me (sexually texts from boss) or thought about cheating on me...

Is it true that once a BPD has cheated, they always cheat in every relationships... ? Im sure my ex will in future time Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) but to hear from others that has went through it and knowing their past

What causes them to cheat or try to?

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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 11:16:30 PM »

What causes them to cheat or try to?

in the beginning of the relationship, the rewarding object(you) kept her rewarded. they need valuation remember. you supplied this. at first. she tries to keep your "reward" constant by whatever means necessary (eg. sex). this is an effort to cling and put your possible withdrawl in check. once she grows tired of these "efforts", your slight withdrawl triggers her other "self". you know the one. that nasty b*tch. it could be anything, a missed phone call you didn't return. because you have now triggered her "bad" self, (remember they have two selves, good and bad) she percieves you as no longer rewarding. this is bad news.

when you are no longer rewarding, her thought disorder tells her you have "abandoned" her. since she can't live alone, she must go and find valuation else where while you are still together.

what's the easiest way to go and seek a new rewarding object for her to feel valued?  SEX.

they don't see it as cheating. they see it as survival.
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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 11:30:22 PM »

Wow... .if the slightest? thats messed up... My ex lives by herself... so will that trigger that action more? or like um... or if the other man is a flirt and like to be payed attention by women. will that trigger the cheating as well?
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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 11:32:26 PM »

to me it seems like once a BPD cheats, they cheat in every relationship as well. Just seems like it. or if they think their partner is flirting and likes the other person more than them and it will trigger that thinking as well? Is that true?
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 11:45:22 PM »

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 11:51:14 PM »

IMHO... .Look for the half truths and projection... .if they are accusing YOU of cheating it's quite likely THEY are cheating... .!

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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2011, 12:28:16 AM »

*face palm* so my ex will prob cheat on her boss... .then my karma will come but its not the point but to understand if once a BPD cheats they will cheat on the replacement. Thats what I wonder hmmm... what if someone else shows more attention and they realize that they are attracted to them? that will drive them to them if they sense that the other is "abandoned" them?
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2011, 07:54:54 AM »

To me this is not just related to BPD, cheaters cheat, it's what they do.
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2011, 10:56:31 AM »

You have to wonder about the total lack of empathy, concern or respect some people have when cheating on their partner.  Of course this can be said about any cheating, but the manner in which my stbxw did it to me and to her first husband, multiple times, is really creepy.  I mean, exposing it freely to people she thought outside her then-husband's reach, lying about and villifying the then-husband and laughing to others behind his back, trying to destroy the then-husband to avoide risking exposure.

I'm not condoning any kind of cheating, but I think there is a big difference among cheaters.  On one end of the scale maybe are those who do it when they really have a long-deteriorating other relationship, or their partner abuses or cheats on them, or they have developed a long relationship with someone else by situation or circumstances, etc., and they have some respect for their current partner, and take the transgression serioulsy with concern for all parties involved, and try to resolve it one way or another, and recognize they have done wrong to another person and feel some responsibility about it.

Then there is the other end of the scale:  no respect, no consideration, no empathy, jumping into something with no established value at the expense of something seemingly much more important, getting a thrill out of deceiving and damaging another person who has done nothing to deserve it, falsely accusing and villifying another for self-interest and enjoying it, etc., etc.

The former is more than enough to deal with.  If you conclude you have one of the latter and you have any thoughts about sticking around and trying to figure out what it is about and whether you can deal with it or not, I think it's time for a serious reality check.
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2011, 11:25:53 AM »

I think they are so fragile that when they feel like they are going to be abandoned they have to lock down a replacement as soon as possible. I keep trying to not think about my ex, but fully understand why I was in the relationship and what changes I have to make so that I never get involved with someone like that again. I think it starts with healthy boundaries. If I have them in place these kinds of people will bounce off of me and find another host.
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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2011, 06:46:45 PM »

I think so too. But I really do think that once a BPD cheats, they will always cheat (physically or emotionally) and will cheat in every relationship they enter no matter how the relationship begins without therapy. I know this because my ex told me that she has cheated on every bf when we first started dating. N it was funny because when she cheated, it was with someone she personally knew or when she cheated on the bf before me and it was with her ex before that ex. I think thats why she still stays close and keeps me around. its effing scary. Im waiting for my karma to come and I know in few months her new relationship will fall apart or is now... not sure it been 3 months now for them now. Mine started 3 to 6 months into ours and it got worse. almost left her at the 6 and 8 and 10 months period because her controlling and jealous and clingy almost drove me away. the last one was when she admitted that she almost thought of cheating on me.
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2011, 08:31:16 PM »

The psychopaths use sex as a tool to reach a goal... .and completely justify it without any guilt

My ex-fiance cheated on his first girlfriend who eventually ended up in a mental institute and never recovered. He cheated on her to use another girl for temporary marriage to get the green card... .then divorced her once he got what he wanted leaving her heart broken

He cheated on me with a pediatrician... .coz simply she has a better future than mine  

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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2011, 08:34:22 PM »

so anyone who has BPD is a psychopath? right?

My ex never went back to an ex and dated again. she just had sex with them while she was in a relationship. Im not sure if mine cheated on me physically but she did emotionally with her new man (the womanizer boss).
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2011, 08:44:12 PM »

so anyone who has BPD is a psychopath? right?

Yep... .they are officially insane 
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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2011, 08:58:19 PM »

Ok cuz my ex never raged at me or hit me. She cut n has threated to kill herself so I see it now... .wow...
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2011, 09:01:33 PM »

Ok cuz my ex never raged at me or hit me. She cut n has threated to kill herself so I see it now... .wow...

My ex was the opposite... .he raged for the smallest and the most stupid reason... .like once I said thankfully that what he cooked was really delicious but needs a little bit of salt... .he went crazy and accused me that I never appreciate him for anything he does to me and went on to tell me I'm ungrateful 
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2011, 10:05:09 PM »

My had jealously n demanded attention all the time n I couldn't do that after few months. I wanted my lil space n she got sad n more controlling.in my guts her new man will kick her to the curb n she will try to recycle... .eekk... she contacted me today with merry christmas so I only text bot the dog cuz I loved that damn dog to death.

I just think she will cheat because of her history pattern
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 01:26:06 AM »

I 2nd the fact that if they accuse of you of cheating, then they are most likely cheating. My ex accused me several times.  I never cheated on her. But she cheated on me twice that I know of and also propositioned our landlord for sex when I was out of town on business for a week.

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Creesy

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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 01:34:56 AM »

so anyone who has BPD is a psychopath? right?

My ex never went back to an ex and dated again. she just had sex with them while she was in a relationship. Im not sure if mine cheated on me physically but she did emotionally with her new man (the womanizer boss).

yah when my ex cheated on me the person she cheated with was her previous bf.
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kj1234
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 09:53:30 PM »

so anyone who has BPD is a psychopath? right?

Technically, the answer is no, according to the definitions.  However, in the proposed revision to the DSM manual that defines the "disorders" for the mental health profession, insurance coverage, etc., sociopaths (psychopaths) would be regrouped into a broader category of borderlines.  That's just the simple explanation from an non-mental-health professional.

But I have come to believe that the behaviors of the borderline (BPD) and the sociopath (ASPD) are almost indistinguishable in what they do to other people, but distinguishable only in what motivates the behavior--a difficult thing to determine with certainty.  The ASPD's (according to at least one book I read) are also broken down into different types, including the sadistic sociopath, who enjoys causing others pain, while for other types causing others pain is just something they must do when people are in the way of their objectives.  At this point it would be tough to convince my that my stbxw does not have some ASPD.  The only other option is the weak-identity borderline will easily follow directions of sociopaths she (he) pulls into her circle of advisors and protectors.  So, the decisions and actions are still driven by a sociopath, either way.  It's a nasty combination and the borderline doesn't have enough character or conscience to have any problem with it, unless faced with exposure.

That last part is just my opinion.
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 09:57:55 PM »

Im asking this because my ex pretty much admitted that she has cheated on every single bf she has been with but that was when I was dating her... Idk if she ever personally cheated on me but I know she has emotionally cheated on me (sexually texts from boss) or thought about cheating on me...

Is it true that once a BPD has cheated, they always cheat in every relationships... ? Im sure my ex will in future time Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) but to hear from others that has went through it and knowing their past

What causes them to cheat or try to?

This sounds like black/white thinking on your part... .what does this question have to do with your recovery or you detaching?
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 10:04:59 PM »

BPDs see only black or white. They are predators and always have options open. They do not feel your pain and continue to look for more always.

I was gone this last time for 2 months and she had already had a new man waiting to go right on in as dad to her 4 kids from four different dads. And once the sex starts, he's a done deal until the real person shows up and the cycle starts anew. Take time and find someone better.

They cannot be abandoned. EVER. And now the launch sequence is started for the hunt to begin.

MOVE ON.

DJ
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2011, 01:10:35 AM »

I never got proof that my ex went all the way with another guy. But sleeping in the same bed, telling me he thinks we are an item now kinda said it all really. She certainly cheated and probably more than once. When she left me eighteen months ago I got the whole "I'm not looking for a relationship" line but lines changed all the time along with the goalposts. She also told me she cheated on her ex husband but he didn't know. I wonder how many guys she's been with in the eighteen months I've been out of orbit?
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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2011, 01:14:30 AM »

Makes total sense. My ex was enabled and guided by her religious parents and friends who treated her like a charity case. She played up to it so well. And when they were all out of her sight, she seduced and manipulated like her life depended on it. Most of the time she convinced me that she was faithful. Even at the end I couldn't totally prove her cheating but I knew things were off by the way my health was deteriorating. She had no trouble turning her phone off for hours while she entertained or breaking up with me to try someone out.
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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 01:21:02 AM »

Just read an interesting post near the top about adding some salt. My ex told me as she was trying out a new guy who stayed over after she broke it off with me (actually told me I broke it off with her), that she couldn't see herself in a relationship with this guy because he didn't like onion in his sandwich. I didn't know whether to piss my pants laughing or question it, so I said ok. They must have had a "deep" discussion about the construction of sandwiches. A meeting of the minds so to speak. Then she had to fly out to accept a nobel prize! Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am now convinced after reading this thread that my ex did cheat on me as the projections toward the end of our relationship and the comments about how I felt different in bed add up. Her "loss" as always.
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 01:34:07 AM »

There were always the emotional affairs and his visits to online sex sites, but when I left him suddenly because everything became too much, he slept with at least four different people within a 2 week span. When we eventually reconciled *sigh* his excuses were many... .he was hurting, he wanted to hurt me, I didn't show enough affection, they were easy, etc.

Since he hangs around narcissists, in his mind since they also engage in such risky behaviour, this made him a ladies man. In my eyes, it was desperation. I found a site online which deals with sex addiction and he started attending SA meetings. He got tested for everything, etc. It didn't last. He wasn't ready to face my process of grieving because it was taking too long and he was 'getting help' so I should just get over it because in his heart, he wasn't 'that guy'. Processing pain is not that simple.

Without true reflection, they will always go back to what temporarily eases their internal conflict. If it's cheating that works for them, then that's what they do.
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Creesy

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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2011, 04:49:12 AM »

What causes them to cheat or try to?

in the beginning of the relationship, the rewarding object(you) kept her rewarded. they need valuation remember. you supplied this. at first. she tries to keep your "reward" constant by whatever means necessary (eg. sex). this is an effort to cling and put your possible withdrawl in check. once she grows tired of these "efforts", your slight withdrawl triggers her other "self". you know the one. that nasty b*tch. it could be anything, a missed phone call you didn't return. because you have now triggered her "bad" self, (remember they have two selves, good and bad) she percieves you as no longer rewarding. this is bad news.

when you are no longer rewarding, her thought disorder tells her you have "abandoned" her. since she can't live alone, she must go and find valuation else where while you are still together.

what's the easiest way to go and seek a new rewarding object for her to feel valued?  SEX.

they don't see it as cheating. they see it as survival.

This really sounds like my ex.  In the end I asked her why did she cheat on me when she told me she would never cheat.  Then later after I found she propositioned our landlord. Rather than apologizing, she justified her actions by telling me that I didn't tell her she was "hot" frequently enough so she would look for other men who liked her.  But I was the man MARRIED to her. To me it should've been implied that I was physically attracted to her and so although yes I guess I should've reminded her more that I was physically attracted to her -- I also felt like if I wasn't saying it enough, it still didn't make it ok for her to go online to fb, and post pics of herself, then friend men looking for validation from complete strangers. It seemed really childish and insecure.

A recent text she sent me said that she needs a man that will compliment her and tell her she's hot every day, ALL day.  Those are the expectations she set for me and that she is setting for the next guy.  They seem so needy and unrealistic. 

I don't think the counselor officially diagnosed her as BPD.  But when I started reading up on it to see if I could figure her out I realized that she has 8 of the 9 symptoms of a person with BPD.  It says they only need 5 of the 9 for a possible diagnosis.  I wish I could tell her this but I'm afraid to get into any kind of conversation with her due to the potential of how damaging it could be to me.  I'm already waking up in the middle of the night (like now), losing sleep over her on a nightly basis, going through withdrawals.  Makes me realize I still love her... .Am so sad.  I was sleeping fine until she inappropriately told me she found someone else.  Now I'm all messed up.

I wrote our marriage counselor a long email and am going to follow up with the counselor in a few days.  My intentions are to have a session or 2 with the counselor since this counselor is one of the few people in the world that knows both of us and knows what my wife is like.  I'm hoping that the counselor can offer me some tools that will help me process through this pain, and maybe help me identify the unhealthy traits and characteristics that I acquired from this woman by simply being with her.

I was talking to a different counselor about this and he asked me a question that I wasn't prepared to answer.  Knowing that I filed for divorce he asked me, "Are you planning to have sex with this woman again?" Wow, I thought, what a finality type question.  I hesitated for a moment, then told him "No".  But when I analyze my answer, I only said no because I knew that's what he wanted to hear.  So that tells me that I am quite unhealthy, that I still ultimately want to be with her despite the damage she has done to me and my loved ones.  Next time I see I him I will have to tell him this.

I used to joke with a friend that it would might be fun to go to a sex addict class or better yet be married to one.  Wow, that is not true at all.  I was married to someone like this and didn't know it.  My affection towards her and the fact that we were married was not enough for her.  She needed more and the rules of marriage didn't apply to her so she would troll facebook, add friends, and go to local bars by herself to find men who would validate her and she would respond to that.

I've been praying nightly for strength from God to get me through this.  I've been praying for wisdom to make the right choices and to live my will by Him.  I hope that I am making the right decision in leaving her. I do feel that God has told me to do this.  Certainly all my friends and family have told me I've made the right decision in leaving.  I guess I won't really know until a year or 2 from now?  I hope I feel better then, than I do now.


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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 05:11:11 AM »

Cressy, I feel your pain. I find it hard to sleep over 5 hours at any given time. I'm not as panicky as I used to be because I don't... .I can't have caffeine. The agony lingers. Just as you've said, the hardest part for me has been that I do still love him and I wish that he would get help. Is it worth further sacrificing myself to wishful thinking and fantasy? No. A friend posted the following on FB today... .it really hit home for me: "There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ---Anaïs Nin

I believe that you are doing the right thing by leaving, imo. Loving yourself... .and her enough to allow you both to blossom.
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 02:47:31 PM »

Excerpt
It's a nasty combination and the borderline doesn't have enough character or conscience to have any problem with it, unless faced with exposure.

Re: the sociopath/borderline distinction. I agree with you that from the non's perspective the damage is about the same. Neither has any empathy for the people they hurt. And the only reason exposure is an issue for the sociopath would be "getting caught" and for the BPD "getting caught" and feeling "shame." Pretty nasty stuff, like you say.

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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 03:14:06 PM »

Without true reflection, they will always go back to what temporarily eases their internal conflict. If it's cheating that works for them, then that's what they do.

Well said, and as I understand it, true reflection is nearly impossible for BPD without major therapy.
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2011, 08:45:54 PM »

When the slightest n I mean the slightest lost of attention. Could be when your on vacation or business trip or trip to whatever or busy with work. The slighest trigger will cause them to cheat. Also to look into their history n see if they have cheated n they will. That's imho. Once they cheated in the past. They will cheat on the replacement
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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 03:18:55 AM »

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=138154.0
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LifeIsOn
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2011, 09:10:25 AM »

Why do high functioning BPD cheat more than low functioning? So if they go from LF to HF their cheating gets worse?
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2011, 10:23:27 AM »

www.metatube.com/en/videos/76083/SNL-Chanel-Red-Flag-Perfume/

SNL 'Red Flag Perfume'
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2011, 11:02:41 AM »

Why do high functioning BPD cheat more than low functioning? So if they go from LF to HF their cheating gets worse?

Cheating is nothing more than a maladaptive coping skill - that happens to work for a pwBPD to soothe intense feelings.  High Function BPD's are more likely to use this skill as they have the ability to assimilate into society better than Low Functioning BPD's.

Brad, I would really challenge you at this point to start focusing on your feelings around your partner cheating on you rather than why she did it.  You cannot control her, but you can heal by focusing on your feelings.
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2011, 11:51:11 AM »

My BPD went to Hawaii with a Friend 8 months after our second daughter was born.  I recently found out thanks to a former friend of hers (who was with her in Hawaii) and whom she has since pushed away, that she had a raging affair that week with a total stranger.  When recently confronted, after becoming aware of yet another affair, she said it was true, but she felt no guilt and it only made her love me more.  She downplayed the affair and denyed several others that former friends have come forward about, since our divorce became public.

I feel strongly that the BPD is suffering a hollow existence, seeking validation from anywhere possible, not able to find it within. I made the mistake of trying to please my wife, and failed to set boundaries and hold her accountable in every area of our lives.  I filled this need for many years, sporadically. Her own self interests will always be put ahead of others, including her children. 

She threw herself into yet another affair withing a month of deciding to divorce... .another total stranger, a convicted felon this time, but her knight in shining armour (as opposed to me the villian and abandoner), someone who is not looking beneath the surface and appreciates the wild sex.  It is not about me or you, it is about them.  Stay strong.
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2013, 03:28:45 PM »

I have no idea if my exUBPDgf cheated on me in both rounds of relationship.

Honestly... .

I would rather not know.

I cannot swallow anymore pain.

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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2013, 10:41:07 PM »

My BPDexw once admitted to me (during one of her penitent phases) that she got a thrill out of coming home and lying to me about her activities.  That sent a chill down my spine and was further confirmation of the depth of her disorder.  The whole cheating lifestyle that she "hid" from me was an exciting escape from the rigors of a mature , adult relationship.  She is now with a much younger man, in the thralls of a validating honeymoon.  I wonder if she'll be faithful to him?

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« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2013, 11:03:38 PM »

Listen to what is told to you! There are reasons why we choose not to listen.

If we don't listen unfortunately we have no one else to point at than ourselves. Not their fault.
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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2013, 11:42:49 PM »

so just so I'm correct about this Clearmind,  if we listened they wouldn't do all this or if we don't listen its our fault they did whatever?
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« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 11:54:56 PM »

IMHO... .Look for the half truths and projection... .if they are accusing YOU of cheating it's quite likely THEY are cheating... .!

Newton, I think when the BPD'er is pointing a finger at you, three fingers are pointing back at them. Commonly, when someone is cheating, they'll project their guilt on the person they're cheating on. To borrow a quote:

"Someone who accuses you of cheating might just be insecure. It doesn't mean they are cheating. However, cheaters are more likely to accuse their partner of cheating because either they want to place blame elsewhere and think it helps hide what they are doing OR they are feeling guilty and fearful that what they are doing is also being done to them. Cheaters don't want to be cheated on... .just like liars don't like being lied to."

We all know BPD'ers have extreme insecurity and trust issues. They may not necessarily be cheating on you; they're just wired to not trust anyone. If they're suddenly accusing you of things out of the blue, it's a good bet they're screwing around.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2013, 12:06:36 AM »

My ex told me a few times he cheated on his ex's. Also told of me of his sexual escapades, multiple women etc etc. I didn't listen.

All the information he provided me could have and should have helped me make up my mind whether this guy was a (1) a stayer (2) was likely to do the same to me (3) cared about sex more than a relationship (4) was afraid of intimacy (5) had a clue what he was seeking in a woman (6) was childish (7) selfish (8) level of emotional maturity.

No one's fault Scot - its seems easier in the short term to not listen to the actions, especially if we need to be needed rather than set firm boundaries, have limits and not engage. My ex told me exactly who he was from the very first date - he was trouble and he told me so... I sang "la, la, la" and proceeded without question.

I need to be accoutable for my choices not accountable of his indescretions.
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2013, 12:09:18 AM »

Listen to what THEY told you... .and set your ego aside enough to believe what they did.

The mistake I made over and over (not just with pwBPD)... but women/people in general... was assuming I was different and special. If a lady sleeps with you on her first date... .she sleeps with guys on the first date. If she doesn't use protection with you... .she doesn't use protection with guys. If she tells you she cheated on any other guy... .she cheats on the guy she is with. If you meet someone and they tell a story of how they did dumb stuff... they do dumb stuff.

For some unclear reason, we want to deny reality and believe that the disordered person we know acts with little or no integrity... .finds us special and doesn't treat us like she treats all the rest of the people she is/was close to.

If you meet someone and they show you (repeatedly) they are not trustworthy... .believe them.

The denial of reality is what I look back and shake my head about. My exBPDgf the last time she wanted to get back together... I listened and offered to be her friend if that was what she wanted... .she finally confided in me she wanted moral support from me... she was recovering from surgery for an STD she got from the guy she jumped in the sack with 3 days after we were supposed to move in together... .and then was pissy because I wasn't supportive! My exBPDgf harassed my exwife... and claimed my ex was harassing her... sending texts, leaving nasty voice mails, etc. I asked my pwBPD to show them to me and play them for me... and she said they were too disturbing so she had deleted them, asked my exwife... and she showed me and played them. Asked my pwBPD to contact the phone company and get copies... and she started a big diversionary fight. Yet I tried to keep believing her... .because I wanted my illusion of a dream girl/soul mate to be true. It cost me big time with my exwife... who was the real/honest person in the whole thing.

Do they always cheat? No... .like most people there is opportunity involved... someone else has to get with them and you can't be sure that will happen... .but if they cheat in past and are not trustworthy... .don't you deserve better?




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Octoberfest
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2013, 12:32:05 AM »

I can attest to the "if they accuse you of cheating, they are likely cheating" concept.

My BPDex cheated on me with multiple different people throughout the 9 months we dated.  Cheating meaning being emotionally and physically involved with others, i.e. she was dating SOMEONE else the entire time we were together and at one point was dating three guys at once. 

She told me that she had been cheated on in every relationship she has been in before me.  She has been in A LOT of relationships.

I agree with charred also... .especially so with pwBPD.  We are made to feel like we are the greatest things in the world, that we are so special, that they have never met anyone like us... .it feels good to believe those things.  But they are hollow words.

I never checked or wanted to check my BPDex's phone or facebook when we first started dating. She was the first girl I ever dated and I very consciously made the decision that I wasn't going to be the jealous boyfriend type.  I knew she talked to her ex still (who in fact she was still dating, she told me she had broken it off with him) but I didn't think anything of it because she told me that he was her best friend for years before they dated.  I only ever got paranoid or started wondering who she was talking to or asking to see her phone after I found out about her cheating on me the first few times. Then she started deleting messages because "it slowed her phone down".  Then she would demand to see my phone, or grab it and say "Look at who you are talking to!" and scroll through my messages wide eyed, and then be all kinds of disappointed to find that the only two girls in my 15 most recently messaged people were my mom and a female friend 4 states away.  It was incredible.

I just remembered this today... .6 months into our relationship I got suspicious that she was involved with her ex (the best friend one mentioned prior).  So I told her that if there was nothing there she would have no problem texting him "hey you know Octoberfest and I are together and dating right?".  She said of course she would.  She then got up and took her phone across the room.  As I walked over I caught the very end of her renaming a contact in her phone the name of her ex.  Then she texted that number, who was obviously someone local who only knew of her and I, and asked that question.  Predictably the answer came back "uh yeah?".  I confirmed later- the number she texted sure wasn't the number of her ex.  The night ended in her having a panic attack because I demanded she phone her mother and have her block his number or else I was walking away.  It was shocking to see how badly this shook her... .you would think she was giving up a child. 

It is incredible how deep the disorder reaches.  Facebook was an integral part of the manipulation and lies.   She would apply settings so me and the other guys she was involved with couldn't see each other on her facebook, apply privacy settings so that only certain people saw her relationship status, etc. 

With the 2 new guys (it appears she has been dating 2 guys at once in the few months since we have split), she has had her facebook deleted for the past several weeks.  About a week ago, right when she seems to have split with one of them, it came back up filled with pictures of her and the other guy, and how lucky she is, etc.  It is insane... .but at least others are seeing it.

Long story short, once a cheater always a cheater.  It doesn't matter how good of a partner one is; cheating on someone has little to nothing to do with the other person not being good enough.  I believe it has everything to do with a predisposition one has, a mindset. My BPDex cheated on me, she has been cheating on the two guys she has been dating at the same time since me, and, while I don't know it, I would bet anything that she was cheating on many if not all of the guys before me.
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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2013, 01:59:51 AM »

I guess that the main theme I would like to get out here is that, yes they sometimes may very well give warnings or have moments where they let slip out on what they plan in the future, but if you have a couple year history with them at that point what are you supposed to do? Honestly just say well the heck with it if they make some off the cuff remark about  'not being there for me'  or 'if you don't do this I may leave'?   I didn't get any of these type of remarks or statements until the final weeks-and after spending a couple of years together-honestly I wasn't ready to throw in the towel then-   But then again I had Absolutely NO Clue about all of her history and what was going on behind the scenes on her behalf.   To my detriment as a Non, once I am with someone, living with them, serious with them, I tell them that, telling them I love them and them always saying it back or telling me that, I am all in that point, I don't play word games, or run away if some verbal slight they mouth off - I don't live like that, and I won't live that - which is a good thing because I don't have to at this point. 

I am saddened to hear that Octoberfest-mine did the same thing with Facebook, was in an 'intimate relationship' while still seeing me of course, telling me if I thought anything of her I 'd bring her lunch at work,etc etc, kept trying to use me as an errand boy, then to 'engaged' within weeks.  All the while she had me blocked from seeing this picture of her and the new guy on her page-  the sick part is that in emails she was throwing a huge fit about me not "Friending" her, just about as low of an act as you can possibly get.    I would rather chop off my winky and stick a needle in my eye than be her 'friend'. 
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »

I guess that the main theme I would like to get out here is that, yes they sometimes may very well give warnings or have moments where they let slip out on what they plan in the future, but if you have a couple year history with them at that point what are you supposed to do? Honestly just say well the heck with it if they make some off the cuff remark about  'not being there for me'  or 'if you don't do this I may leave'?   I didn't get any of these type of remarks or statements until the final weeks-and after spending a couple of years together-honestly I wasn't ready to throw in the towel then-   But then again I had Absolutely NO Clue about all of her history and what was going on behind the scenes on her behalf.   To my detriment as a Non, once I am with someone, living with them, serious with them, I tell them that, telling them I love them and them always saying it back or telling me that, I am all in that point, I don't play word games, or run away if some verbal slight they mouth off - I don't live like that, and I won't live that - which is a good thing because I don't have to at this point. 

I am saddened to hear that Octoberfest-mine did the same thing with Facebook, was in an 'intimate relationship' while still seeing me of course, telling me if I thought anything of her I 'd bring her lunch at work,etc etc, kept trying to use me as an errand boy, then to 'engaged' within weeks.  All the while she had me blocked from seeing this picture of her and the new guy on her page-  the sick part is that in emails she was throwing a huge fit about me not "Friending" her, just about as low of an act as you can possibly get.    I would rather chop off my winky and stick a needle in my eye than be her 'friend'. 

That.

In bold.

It was the same for me.

Leaves you in a very unsure position.

And then they question you on top of that.

So damaging.

Maddening.

I honestly do not know if my exUBPDgf cheated behind my back.

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« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2013, 12:45:08 PM »

When I left for the last time she somehow knew I meant it because the texts and the emails stopped; they had been her favorite way to communicate in the relationship, and in fact she was much sweeter by text than in person.  No phone calls either.

I did troll her Facebook page for about a week after, and she was leaving veiled messages to me.  Enough is enough, I unfriended her, and am proud to report I haven't gone to her Facebook page or her website since, not even once, and haven't found it hard not to, I now know where that leads.

But most importantly I've continued using Facebook and posting everything to Public, because sorry sweetheart, you are not allowed to impose your crap on my life anymore, and I'll live the way I want, thank you.  It was done out of spite initially, but now I honestly don't care.  I'm sure visiting her page would be a trigger for me, looking forward to it not being once I heal a little more, but not going there is easy.
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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2013, 01:38:58 PM »

Yes. If they are cheaters they are serial cheaters.  Its only a matter of time until they disregulate and look for sex to sooth their pain.
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« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2013, 02:04:15 PM »

Yes. If they are cheaters they are serial cheaters.  Its only a matter of time until they disregulate and look for sex to sooth their pain.

Couldn't agree more.  My stbx uPBDh not only cheated on me with an ex girlfriend from high school and who he called his soul mate and the one that got away but he cheated on her too!  He was involved with another ex girlfriend and together they are swingers!

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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2013, 04:07:20 PM »

I'm with Charred and Clearmind,

Once a person shows you and tells you who they are: believe them. They know themselves better than you ever will. I know our BPD's can misconstrue the truth about their past break ups... .but if our guts are screaming something isn't right than more than likely our guts are accurate.

My ex told me nonchalantly about how he cheated on his ex's and how his ex's took him back. Yep. Braggingly with the most cavalier narcissistic smugness. My ex didn't see it as betrayal; he saw it as entitlement. In his mind his cheating was their fault and in many ways he was simply forecasting what was in store for me.

Did I run like hell? Nope. I stayed. And when he cheated; I took him back just like all his other exes.

Like Charred said... .we get caught up in wanting to be unique, special and spin in our minds the narrative of believing that we are the different experience of love for them that just might make them change their BPD Leopard spots. *Can you see my smirk?"

Not all BPD's cheat; but most do. It's how they survive and has nothing to do with us.

Spell

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« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2013, 04:40:47 PM »

Well, its not just BPD who cheat. . .I've cheated myself.  It was immaturity on my part. . .it went on for a while and I must have put my partner through hell as he was suspicious.  I made a concious decision to stop it, and made a choice to stay in the r/s.  But, I'm not a serial shagger and I don't do it to self-soothe some core wound.  With BPD, I think if they use sex in that way they will always cheat, emotionally and/or physically and with males there tends to be porn related behaviour. . .it's all of it, and I believe with my ex related to 'Mother' issues.

Once a person shows you and tells you who they are: believe them.

My ex told me nonchalantly about how he cheated on his ex's and how his ex's took him back. Yep. Braggingly with the most cavalier narcissistic smugness. My ex didn't see it as betrayal; he saw it as entitlement. In his mind his cheating was their fault and in many ways he was simply forecasting what was in store for me.

Like Charred said... .we get caught up in wanting to be unique, special

Yes, I recognise a lot of this.

When I started seeing my exuBPD, he was in a r/s and involved with other women as well. . .an obvious 'ladies man'. . .somehow I decided to ignore all that    At the end he told me he was seeing six other women for a number of years. . .and mentioned - very smugly - "I don't think you think I am a serial shagger"

But, yes he made me feel unique, special. . .and more of a woman than any man had done. . .I fell hook, line and sinker.  Mind you saying that, I think there were quite a number of years he wasn't involved with anyone else . . .he didn't have regular periods of 'obvious' dsyregulation but he went back to the serial shagging, I don't quite know why and once I challenged him, he turned into someone I'd never seen before. . .quite staggering
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« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2013, 05:02:23 PM »

I suppose that you should put 'Tells You' and 'Believe Them' into context.  I agree with others who have said we should believe them and listen to what they say, but you have to agree that is kind of difficult to do if all they have said was mostly a lie to begin with.  If you have lived with someone who constantly tells you they love you and you are always with them after Several Years together you come home and they say "if you don't paint the front porch I'm leaving today"       The majority of people, myself included, would take that with a grain of salt if there was no arguing or some other blow up going on before or after that.   BPD's have the unique ability to turn any feelings off or on like the flip of a light switch, its not something that you can do if you truly loved someone. 
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Clearmind
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« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2013, 05:14:40 PM »

Putting cheating aside - surely there were a multitude of red flags through the relationship.

Part of being in a relationship is inquiring. If my partner was telling me something and doing something opposite I would inquire. Instead I took my ex on face value because I was too scared of making waves and him leaving me!

Part of being a member here at bpdfamily is to learn from our errors and not simply pull our ex's partners behavior apart - Look at the actions - this is a life lesson for the next partner.
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« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2013, 06:56:50 PM »

You're right clearmind.  There were a lot of red flags, but the biggest one was she never came to me, there was never the emotional closeness that I want in a relationship.  I'd say it was due to shame about her actions including infidelity, a very low opinion of herself, and really an inability to really go there.

My lesson, fueled by my disgust with myself for just hanging around "hoping it would get better", and my avoidance of her rude and rageful outbursts at the slightest provocation, is to nip that crap in the bud next time.  Leaving unacceptable things undiscussed is a recipe for disaster; if it's important to me, bring it up.  And maybe the most important trait of a healthy relationship is the ability to solve problems together and move through rough spots, something that never, ever happened with my BPD ex.  My belief is that relationships are never static, people are always either getting closer together or farther apart, and having a major falling out, a come to jesus conversation about it, and a resolution everyone is happy with is one of the best ways to get closer.  And the make up sex is awesome too.
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« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2013, 07:11:43 PM »

Like Charred said... .we get caught up in wanting to be unique, special

We are all unique and therefore special... .but none of us are faith healers!

I saw my BPDex could modify her behavior for a time, but because of her emotional volatility and inability to cope added to fears of abandonment and engulfment, she returned to her usual coping behaviors. So yeah, add me to the roll call of those voting that "cheaters are cheaters". 
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« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 07:33:13 PM »

My uBPDexgf cheated on every man she was with including me.  She denied this mostly, but really, the truth was there to be known--I would ask her about it a lot and sometimes she would let things slip.  During her especially venomous times she would be painfully honest for a few moments and talk in detail about her affairs and her sordid past.  She has had 3 husbands and 4 fiancees and  numerous boyfriends, all of which were victims of her seduction and conquer, only to be betrayed.  I was more than once with her.  Stupid me, I hung around for more abuse and believed her when she said it would never happen again.  I don't know about all BPDs but my guess would be a vast majority would cheat and cheat again, and again.
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« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2013, 09:50:48 PM »

Honesty during a venom attack... .something to that.

I think part of what made discounting what they said hard (as BS), was that most the time there was some grain of truth to the crazy demands and repetitive arguments, and concerns they had.

My exBPDgf at various times told me I was co-dependent, was a people pleaser, was afraid to say "no", was a jellyfish ... with no spine, and that I had attachment issues. She said lots of other mean stuff, but the psychological ones were usually plausible.

Bit of a different topic though... .

On topic question... .how much of the cheating was while your r/s seemed to be going good? My pwBPD would be with me and in contact (almost smothering) when things were good... when she was busy I always wondered... .but when we were having little spats back and forth... .no doubt she was doing her best to jump in the sack with someone... .kind of a "that will show you" thing maybe.

Might be different person to person... .some just keep 4-5 folks handy others chase them down when the mood strikes.

Hate thinking of someone I saw as "the one" for me for most of 30 yrs... .as utterly devoid of integrity, and with the morals of an alley cat... .but it is what it is.

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« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2013, 09:58:25 PM »

We didn't live together, and it took me a while to figure out, but if I didn't hear from mine for 2 or 3 days, it was because she was off screwing someone.  The thing that absolutely shocked me was her ability to carry on with me as if nothing ever happened and we were in the monogamous, exclusive relationship we had agreed upon.  She was able to do that by keeping an emotional distance from me that I obviously felt but chose to ignore, and it really pisses me off about myself that I did ignore it.  Never again.
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« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2013, 10:26:24 PM »

they always cheat.  they don't consider it cheating.  If they don't cheat, they rage or withdraw or play some other game.  Mine cheated with a GF when we met, left me with a baby and married someone else, withdrew and verbally abused her until she tossed him, then went from toxic relationship until his life was completely a mess, then came back here, I helped put him together and BAM-he cheated.  At his physical and mentally healthiest point in 10 years.  Because he was talking about some women that was "after" him, and I said she wasn't good for him, he needs stability.  So 2 days after we got back from vacation some friend contacted him on FB and he's been with her ever since.  Because I told him to "find someone stable"

honestly, I have a bet out with a friend how long she stays stable when she finds out what he's really about. 
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« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2013, 08:17:58 PM »

Just visiting briefly and have read through this thread. I am further along the healing path now and find it quite hard to read even my own posts here. I believe this is a good thing. Isn't it obvious that if a person actually tells you who they are, that you take that on board? Well, maybe not if you are deeply intrenched/enmeshed and that person's actions and words are a total mismatch. However it is a lesson I know I have learnt now. I agree with Clearmind. The actions of our past relationships are there to help us learn to take better care of ourselves. This will hopefully ensure we are in quality relationships in future or see the warning signs before we head into a disaster. I will certainly never cheat myself out of genuine love again. Life is good here and hard to believe what happened is now, quite a few years ago. I've lost count, which is a great thing. Hope everybody is learning lots. Be well! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2013, 02:03:47 AM »

I 2nd the fact that if they accuse of you of cheating, then they are most likely cheating. My ex accused me several times.  I never cheated on her. But she cheated on me twice that I know of and also propositioned our landlord for sex when I was out of town on business for a week.

I actually had my ex throw that same way of thinking at me. The last I saw her was early January 2013.  There was always an excuse: she didn't feel good (for one reason or another), she was at her mothers, she didn't feel like going out, we weren't getting along (she actually told me if we began to get along through texting we could move up to phone calls... .what the hell was I doing believing this nonsense?), etc. and she decided she didn't want to be involved with me anymore yet still found it enjoyable to control certain parts of my life. I begin to get a little suspicious given that she was always able to tell me she loved me but always seemed to have something other than time for me lined up on her weekends. I asked her, in a polite and non-confrontational way, if there was another man in the picture. I gave her my reasons for thinking so and she gave me the old deep sigh and 'There you go presuming again'! It was this that gave her the basis to tell her friends I was insecure. The 'friend' of ours I speak about? I told her that yes, I was insecure, but that stemmed from her continuously telling me she loved me, controlling the tempo of our conversation schedule, controlling what women I could have on my Facebook friends list yet when it came time for her to prove her feelings, she always had an excuse. So I began to wonder if there was another man. My ex's reasons for her insecurity are already hot wired into her brain. That's how she is. I had that confirmed back in May by way of this 'friend' and her dishing all kinds of dirt on my ex. I wasn't insecure about anything until I begin suspecting something. I had no reason to be. I'm sure anyone else would've felt a bit insecure, too.

In late March, I finally had enough and changed my #. She went berserk and went as far as asking a close lady friend of mine for it, and she declined to give it to my ex. So she deleted her from Facebook and essentially told her 'You have your BFF back now. I'm done caring!' Then the emails started pouring into my inbox practically DEMANDING I give her my new #. I asked why she couldn't even give me a few hours on any Saturday night  for the past 3 months and the excuses came pouring out. Then she said 'Well how can I go out with you if I don't even have your new #? Oh sure, I'll be glad to go out with you even though I don't have a way to get a hold of you!' I told her we'd been getting by just fine by typing messages back and forth like we've been doing since the beginning and she could leave her email open on her phone, as would I, and we could communicate that way. I eventually gave in, as usual, and gave her my new #. She called me and I asked her again if someone else was in the picture. Again, I stated why I felt the way I did and she came back with 'You know, you've asked me this before. Maybe you're the one that's seeing someone behind my back and your guilt is causing you to ask me if I'm doing anything behind your back.' I laughed and told her she had more nerve than the law allows to use that excuse against me when I was the one making effort after effort every weekend to see her and she could never give me a few hours of her time on any Saturday night. I was the one that made time, every weekend, only to hear one excuse after another. How I let this go on and did nothing for so long boggles my mind now.

Typically, when someone just starts asking you things about their faithfulness to you and starts acting weird all of sudden about where you're going and who you're with (even though you've been going to the same places with the same people) then it's a certainty they feel guilt over cheating and figure by accusing you, it somehow validates them doing it. A very, very demented way of thinking and allowing a made up thought give them the green light to cheat on you.
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Jbt857
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Relationship status: Separated
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« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2013, 07:36:10 AM »

Hmmm.

I used to accuse my BPDexh of cheating quite often.

Not because I was cheating (I wouldn't dream of it), but because I caught him cheating online and he never really made me feel secure and able to trust him.

Just putting that out there, because its not right to assume its an absolute if someone is accusing someone of cheating. In my case, the accusations were down to my insecurity.
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charred
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2013, 07:38:51 AM »

LoneWolf...

Could have posted virtually same post. Ended up changing my phone number 3 times. My exBPDgf went so far as to say I had turned my sister and one of her best friends against her (magically I guess since I hadn't talked to either about anything.) The insecurity they have is something, they get to be control freaks at times. The demands escalate and if you ever meet them, they raise the bar.

I always valued integrity... .and that is what BPD isn't... they are not integrated, what is said one moment isn't consistent with actions another moment. The odd thing was that a lot of the chewing outs I got were "moralizing"... telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing. Had to be shameful projection.

We should feel relief being apart from the craziness and drama.

I don't think you can trust anything a disordered person says without verifying its validity, and who wants to live like that?
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mitchell16
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« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2013, 10:23:04 AM »

got were "moralizing"... telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing. Had to be shameful projection.

I got this alot. How i should or shouldnt be acting. even with things that was before us. I was still friends with an ex of mine from 25 years ago, we still talked prior to my becoming involved with BPDGF. The exs husband was well aware of our conversation, she happily married and has 3 children and lives 2000 miles away. I told my BPD ex about it up front, nothing to hide. She said that was improper and how could i be having an emotional affair with a married women. When i explained she would hear of it. also I worked a married lady, who is a very good wife, devoted mother. we are freinds at work. I freinds with her husband. we talk nothing more nothing less. I was once again having an emotional affair. Now she works with a man, who is married and has children. She calls him her work husband. I find that very strange but I understand they are friends. She could never see the it is the same. I was always accused of me being dishonest, sneaking or hiding somethings. I had never lied to her and she nevr had reason to think I did. When of course she was the one who was caught in about 5 diffrent lies involving men. She was always accsuing me of being controlling, but it was her that was controlling. She used to say i was jealous and it was she that thew fits if I was talking to another women. She accused me of being needy and she was the one who had me and all of her friends fixing, delivering and making phone calls for diffrent things for her. She once threw herself a fit becasue I was talking to a lady at work and she walked up and I kept talking. said I didnt pay her enough attention and that  how I acted was disgusting. projection at its best.
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