Do their relatives/parents know?

[Nemo]

about their BPD?

Looking back I can see how my exBPDgf got into fights with all her relatives trying to dominate them, being sarcastic, telling them how to live their lives, judging their relationships & kids, venting and being angry/raging at them.

None of them had the strength to stand up to her though.

But surely they must have known something was amiss/wrong with her.

Footnote: I cannot ask them, since they speak a different language

[Sabine]

Hi Nemo,

I used to wonder this too. I had a break up with my xBPDbf for 2 months and then we got back together to try it again (it didn't last). I asked him if his parents were surprised that we got back together after such a bad break up. He said, "No, they know how hard I can be to get along with." That's about all I got.

There was another time when very early in our r/s he had to go meet with mother. I never knew all the specifics but after he met with her he told me that she literally told him that he doesn't have a soul. That's pretty major, to this day, it confuses me why a mother would say that to their child. Mmmm  |> or what?

I think they know, he's 47, never been married, no kids, no long term r/s's to speak of, and not many friends... .this speaks volume to most people.

Speaks volume, no?  ?

[Dera]

In my case, I don't think they know the diagnosis, but they know he's difficult. He's very controlling with his mother and sister too, and in a way that made no sense to me until I understood more about BPD. His mother told me that she was glad that I loved him even though I knew what he is like... .and she said that in a way that was loaded with meaning... .but we never talked specifically about it.

Sometimes I think I should explain what I've learned to her. I'm sure that would make him mad though, and feels like it would be betraying him. I wish she could have the relief of understanding though.

[Empty]

I don't know if they are aware of a specific condition and if they are then they really don't talk about it. Most likely they know something is wrong with them and are secretly glad to have them out of their homes if not their lives.

My BPDw has managed to severe all ties with all of her family and that is a result of her push/pull dynamic that she is so skilled at. They have the luxery of being able to exclude her from their lives. I often question the situation of how she presents how all of her family are a pack of drunken, abusive, manipulative, and meddling assh*les and she is the only good one who was a victim to them all her life. It just doesn't ring true.

It's a bit like a saying that goes around;

'When everyone around you is a d*ckhead. Isn't it time to consider who the d*ckhead rerally is?'

[Nemo]

It's a bit like a saying that goes around;

'When everyone around you is a d*ckhead. Isn't it time to consider who the d*ckhead rerally is?'

Well put.

My exBPD disrespected pretty much everyone.

My colleagues, my son, her own family. + Her own colleagues.

And at the end me as well.

Tragic & frightening

[GettinStronger]

In my case, I think dad and brother of xBPDbf may have signs of BPD as well.  I remember sitting at dinner with all 3 (very rare occasion and i'm sure they got into it before we left) but at the very beginning of dinner his dad made a comment "if one more person says i'm bipolar or crazy i'm gonna lose it"  and they all agreed as if same thing had been happening to ALL OF THEM!

 Seriously!  This was about the same time I started looking into what the heck was wrong with him.

[Sabine]

Yes, I agree with them 'glad' they found someone who would go out with them. His parents are very traditional, they have a son (him) and a daughter (3 yrs younger). He was always the 'bad' kid, in school at a young age he was diagnosed with ADD. He was put on medication and they wanted him to go to a different school. His mother fought the school so that they wouldn't transfer him. She didn't want him to be treated differently. The daughter was an A student all the way. He got into drugs and alcohol and she went to college... .

He was always the troubled kid and his mother was always there cleaning up his messes. I feel sorry for both of them actually. It's got to be a horrible way to live.  

[2010]

The development of BPD often is in response to environmental factors from the family dynamic. Nemo, it sounds like you are having an experience with a Borderline Queen. Sometimes Borderlines boss around others when they feel vulnerable. Family systems may not consider the behavior abnormal. What is important is your response to the behavior and how you define normal.

BPD evolution: Authors: Young, Klosko and Weishaar

1)   The family environment was/is unsafe and unstable.

The lack of safety almost always arises from abandonment or verbal abuse (or observing another family member being abused.) There was usually the threat of explosive anger between periods of being left entirely alone, making the attachment unreliable or inconsistent. Instead of feeling secure, the attachment is unstable or terrifying.

2)   The family environment was/is depriving.

Early object relations are impoverished. Parental nurturing-physical warmth, empathy, emotional closeness and support, guidance, protection-is typically absent or deficient. One or both parents may be emotionally unavailable and provide minimal empathy. Emotionally the child feels alone.

3)   The family environment is harshly punitive and rejecting.

The family is critical, unaccepting, unforgiving, unloving, and harshly punitive when the child makes mistakes. The child is made to feel worthless, evil, bad, or dirty rather than a normal child misbehaving.

4)   The family environment is subjugating.

The family environment suppresses the needs and feelings of the child. Usually there are implicit rules about what the child can and cannot say and feel. _

[BlushAndBashful]

Wow, that would require me actually meeting them.  

I don't know. His parents are gone, he's an only child. He has two adult children who attacked me viciously and repeatedly told me that he was very stable and I'm the crazy one. But they are really sucked in by him and it's a creepy emotional incest thing going on there.

Only times I really heard something:

We had gotten back together (yet again), he got his deployment orders, and so he proposed to me. (Mind you, this is well over 3 years since we started seeing each other.) I was finally allowed to meet his aunt that he is extremely close to (Incredibly big victory for me!). I got invited to Christmas dinner at her place, and she pulled him aside and told him "Now don't be doing something silly like marry her before you go overseas. I know how you get."  I thought it was because she was engaged during Vietnam and things didn't work out for her and she was still talking about it. Well, maybe there was more to it than that.

Second time, from a coworker.  After I got dumped on my butt and he said he wanted a divorce, I had to talk to someone in the assistance office. I sobbed on her shoulder a lot. That's when she said "Oh, I've known Bobby for over 20 years. He's like that. He always wants to settle down, but once he gets married, he just loses interest and changes his mind. He's just not happy being married."  WOW. No one could have told me this BEFORE we got married?

[Nemo]

The development of BPD often is in response to environmental factors from the family dynamic. Nemo, it sounds like you are having an experience with a Borderline Queen. Sometimes Borderlines boss around others when they feel vulnerable. Family systems may not consider the behavior abnormal. What is important is your response to the behavior and how you define normal.

BPD evolution: Authors: Young, Klosko and Weishaar

1)   The family environment was/is unsafe and unstable.

The lack of safety almost always arises from abandonment or verbal abuse (or observing another family member being abused.) There was usually the threat of explosive anger between periods of being left entirely alone, making the attachment unreliable or inconsistent. Instead of feeling secure, the attachment is unstable or terrifying.

2)   The family environment was/is depriving.

Early object relations are impoverished. Parental nurturing-physical warmth, empathy, emotional closeness and support, guidance, protection-is typically absent or deficient. One or both parents may be emotionally unavailable and provide minimal empathy. Emotionally the child feels alone.

3)   The family environment is harshly punitive and rejecting.

The family is critical, unaccepting, unforgiving, unloving, and harshly punitive when the child makes mistakes. The child is made to feel worthless, evil, bad, or dirty rather than a normal child misbehaving.

4)   The family environment is subjugating.

The family environment suppresses the needs and feelings of the child. Usually there are implicit rules about what the child can and cannot say and feel. _

[redberry]

2010, your posts are always so enlightening.  Thank you!   

[Sabine]

On the flip side of this unstable environment, there are also parents that love too much- that cling, that don't allow separation or individuation of the child. Some cultures even have this as a positive group identity. The offset of this is that the child clings to and then subsequently hates the person they cling to while resisting their own independence for fear of annihilation.  The fear of annihilation and the fear of abandonment are consistent themes that create a need to control others (manipulate actions) and force conflict. There is very little free will to separate and detach from others in Borderline Personality disorder, so there is allot of anxiety about attachments.

In order to deal with the intense emotions of annihilation fears, Borderlines often act out in defiance while secretly fearing the abandonment of those they defy. A detached protector personality takes form to prevent and block out the emotions that can be visibly seen by others. The mute, zombie-like detached protector "protects" the two child states of anger and abandonment- but cannot prevent the internal voice of the "punitive parent" from lecturing overhead.  BPD is a disorder that is known as partial insanity, similar to hearing voices while appearing completely normal. It is not consistent like Schizophrenia, so there are moments of complete normality- until something triggers their two fears-abandonment and annihilation. The resultant child states are abandonment and anger.

When either fear occurs, the "punitive parent" holds kangaroo court internally to cajole and criticize the two child states (that swing back and forth on a pendulum) for their failures to separate and individuate apart from parasitically attaching themselves to others. (To become wholly alone -they would need to go through an abandonment depression.) Much of what you see in Borderline acting out is the result of secret internal dialogue of criticism from the "punitive parent" that chastises the adult for not going through abandonment depression.

The resultant feelings of failure create a response (acting out) that is reactive. Most of the time the results are not productive enough to solve the problem. Instead, the impulsive behavior often ATTRACTS others to their rescue- that's when shame and blame are conveniently cast off and projected upon those that try to help.  Borderlines have a very deficient, fragile ego and often attract vulnerable narcissists who cannot catch a break with their *altruism. (Victims need rescuers and *rescuers need victims.) This is the clarion call of the Borderline.

Because Borderlines are part time people- they *need* others to be whole. Borderlines hate to be needy. When they find and mirror the good in others, they feel good. When they are being triggered because of the failure to be whole, they feel bad. They resort to a split-off of the bad parts by projecting it onto the former attachment whom they feel is now the living embodiment of the persecutorial punitive parent.

By making the part time object bad, they avoid feeling bad. The detached protector then comes in and takes the responsibility of the two children- and the former partner (attachment) is now considered a deeply dark presence. Paranoia and schizoid behavior may occur. A new attachment is sought out to refresh the "good" part time self. Most of the time this is done through triangulation (read definition), with a rescuer coming in to replace a former rescuer who is now a stand-in for the internal "punitive parent."  Altogether devastating for the vulnerable narcissist personality who sees himself/herself as deeply giving and good.

It is at this point that a person with BPD will show avoidant attachment while the former partner shows ambivalent attachment. People with ambivalent attachment suffer greatly at the end of interpersonal relationships (especially when they are shamed) while people with avoidant attachment quickly move on to a new partner, sometimes within days or even overlapping relationships.  

2010,

This is the first description I've read that connects the dots for me on what may have caused him to be BPD. His mother is still 'attached' to him in a very smothering way. For God's sake he's 47 and his mother does EVERYTHING for him still. From cleaning his house while he's away at work, mowing his lawn, taking care of his pet, stuffing his xmas stocking, weekly care packages of food & toiletries, paying his bills, the list goes on. I've NEVER seen anything like it!

I always knew it was 'over the top' and he would even say that it kind of 'bothered' him, but he is obviously totally dependent on her. I can't even imagine this kind of 'attachment' with my mother. I'm the total opposite of his mother. (shaking head)

Thank you for sharing this... .   

[BreatheEasy]

My exBPDbf's parents/family knew. In fact they don't speak to him anymore due to the pain he has caused. They are strict Muslim and he is not. He always told me they didnt support him because his religion doesnt believe in mental illness. Now I know that is false and something he was feeding me. I found out over time that his mother does love him

And tried to help him countless times. He always talked so badly of her. I guess he painted her black as well.

[Forestaken]

I think they know and are happy someone else has to deal with it from now on.

[redberry]

I think they know something is wrong.  They have pushed him to therapy a few times (never worked).  But he gets it honestly, I don't think they are the poster parents for mental health either... .

[gettingoverit]

I think their relatives know that something is wrong... .how can they not? Any relatively normal adult would start to questions someone when they continually treat others like ___ and then make themselves out to be the victim. There is also the possibility that the apple does not fall far from the tree. Sometimes parents or grandparents have the same issues, often pushed under the carpet, or blamed on something else like alcoholism etc. I highly suspect that perhaps my ex came from a family that had someone in it very disordered and abusive. Through the years things would be shared about the family that looking back now makes me go hmmmmmm?

[Bandita]

Good question... .really good info 2010, thank you.

I'm 99% sure my ex's mother is BPD too... .I was told she's being treated for bipolar but her smothering / totally unexplainable behavior really fits BPD. I've wondered sometimes about the reactions of his friends when I came into the picture. His friends are basically a handful of old highschool or college 'buddies' that especially during our relationship he rarely ever saw, and there was always a way they reacted to him that    I couldn't quite put my finger on.