Memory; anyone had this experience?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had a heated discussion with my undiagnosed exwBPD and she started walking away not wanting to talk. It was because I was stating things (in a very neutral way) how she: attacked me in the past, I caught her cheating, she's slept with every person she claimed to be a 'friend' (4 of them in the last 2 years), destroyed my birthday cake, cries on the floor when I say "I feel like you've been on your phone all night". She became so angry and confronted me in tears and pain in her eyes and said "I'm in pain!" And I was momentarily scared because of the way she stood and I felt she may come at me and attack me so I told her to "dont attack me, walk away... " And to her credit :D she did. Later that night in bed she was sobbing because of an email she read about someone asking her how she was doing having her mom's death anniversary happen a week prior. I guess she said she was sad that no one asks her that. k.

The next day in the evening when I saw her, she'd just walked in and I already felt bad about triggering her (even if I didn't mean to) so I got up and hugged her, apologized and said: "sorry if I pushed too much last night. Whatever happens between us I'll always love you". She seemed completely fine and was smiling the whole time but get this... she said she does NOT remember what happened. When I asked about that she said she remembers being upset but not what I had said... .

Wtf... How can one not remember such a fight and be A-Ok the next day? Is there a memory problem with these people? She said she remembers the email and that's why she cried but if I had said something "You're lucky I don't remember what you've said".

Anyone experience such a thing and have any clue on what it means?

[nylonsquid]

I had a heated discussion with my undiagnosed exwBPD and she started walking away not wanting to talk. It was because I was stating things (in a very neutral way) how she: attacked me in the past, I caught her cheating, she's slept with every person she claimed to be a 'friend' (4 of them in the last 2 years), destroyed my birthday cake, cries on the floor when I say "I feel like you've been on your phone all night". She became so angry and confronted me in tears and pain in her eyes and said "I'm in pain!" And I was momentarily scared because of the way she stood and I felt she may come at me and attack me so I told her to "dont attack me, walk away... " And to her credit :D she did. Later that night in bed she was sobbing because of an email she read about someone asking her how she was doing having her mom's death anniversary happen a week prior. I guess she said she was sad that no one asks her that. k.

The next day in the evening when I saw her, she'd just walked in and I already felt bad about triggering her (even if I didn't mean to) so I got up and hugged her, apologized and said: "sorry if I pushed too much last night. Whatever happens between us I'll always love you". She seemed completely fine and was smiling the whole time but get this... she said she does NOT remember what happened. When I asked about that she said she remembers being upset but not what I had said... .

Wtf... How can one not remember such a fight and be A-Ok the next day? Is there a memory problem with these people? She said she remembers the email and that's why she cried but if I had said something "You're lucky I don't remember what you've said".

Anyone experience such a thing and have any clue on what it means?

[PolandSpring4]

Here's a thread on Reddit I saw the other day that might be helpful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/5gxqer/memory_issues/

Seems like it's fairly common.

[oshinko maki]

Anyone experience such a thing and have any clue on what it means?

My BPD wife has forgotten what she has said and done hundreds of time. It absolutely flabbergasted me at first, seeming like knowing denials. Now I believe it means the human unconscious motives can remove memories or make them entirely unavailable. I used to feel so happy when on a rare occasion she would "admit" to having done something seriously destructive, only to be denied by her later as never having done it and never having admitted doing it. It used to blow my mind. I look at it as part of her illness, and it still scares me. Just my 2 cents.

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

This seems to be a pattern for BPD people in my opinion. We had fights that my ex could not remember from the previous day. Sometimes I recorded the fights and showed her what she had said and done and she did not remember anything about it.

I don't know if they learn to do this subconsciously, they pretend they don't know anything or are born with this problem.  

[Indifferent28]

It happens apparently.

Id ask my ex to repeat to me what she said seconds before in an argument and she'd stare at me blankly and say she didn't know.
Or swear she'd never said something I vividly remember.

I wonder what causes this. Maybe their pure denial.

[insideoutside]

My friend recently said his memory is getting bad and leaves a supermarket and cannot remember where he parked his car.   Not sure if it's the same for arguements etc.

[SoMadSoSad]

It happens apparently.

Id ask my ex to repeat to me what she said seconds before in an argument and she'd stare at me blankly and say she didn't know.
Or swear she'd never said something I vividly remember.

I wonder what causes this. Maybe their pure denial.

Disassociation?

[joeramabeme]

Anyone experience such a thing and have any clue on what it means?

Yes, I experienced this frequently in my marriage. Always thought it was me as she seemed to passively and nonchalantly deny knowledge of long and repetitive dialogues about important marital topics. 

We were in therapy with a T that specialized in trauma, the term she used to describe it was "emotional dysregulation".  The T's take on it was that she was overwhelmed with emotions and would literally shut down if it was too intense.  She was also clear that these reactions were tied to events in the past, not the present. 

[Sunfl0wer]

Disassociation?

Yea, that is my thought.  There are varying levels of dissociation.  I had a great detailed slide show about it, can look for it... .

[balletomane]

This was a serious problem for my ex. He was very dissociative and would not remember saying horrible vicious things that had left me in pain. I would be crying and he would react with confusion: "I don't remember that." This problem meant that his perception of time and ability to evaluate the 'big picture' were also warped: when he was very depressed about something, he could only remember all the other times he'd been depressed, and he was incapable of recalling times he'd felt differently. They just didn't exist for him any more. It was very disorientating to live with.

I know from talking to the woman he replaced me with that he was the same with her. Once, after saying awful things, he told her that he never wanted to see her face again. She took this seriously and left the apartment. The next morning he couldn't understand why she'd gone. He didn't remember telling her to get out and his perception of the evening was, "We just had a disagreement, that's what couples do sometimes." He couldn't remember specifics.

[Kelli Cornett]

You traumatized her so she mentally blocked it out and dissociated. It's a BPD thing.

[Kelli Cornett]

Feeling everything and than feeling nothing. Does not know how to feel gray area. It's part of the personality disorder.

[Confused108]

I was  told this type of behavior is called " selective amnesia" my ex pulled a lot of crap on me in our teens. When she came back after 26 years of painting me black I told her about it and she swore up and down she couldn't remember.  My a$$! They do this and say oh I can't remember bc they don't like to take responsibility for the crap they pull on us.

[oshinko maki]

"... .they don't like to take responsibility for the crap they pull on us."

Maybe it is just semantics, but my wife seems more UNABLE to take responsibility, like the very memory of what was said or done is not allowed to form or come into awareness. Conveniently selective amnesia, but real, it seems to me at least.

Add to that the delusionally wild accusations or lies that a BPD sufferer throws out, and you have life in hell, or at least more stress than you ever thought humanly possible.
 

[KarmasReal]

I'm not sure it's quite to that extent but my ex BPD gf also had something similar. She's an undiagnosed alcoholic too so she mostly claimed she didn't remember things because of the alcohol. I don't know if it was just the alcohol though. She seemed to either not remember situations or remember them entirely different then they happened. I constantly heard I don't remember saying this or doing this, granted drinking was a part of it. I remember our second to last break up and how volatile and cruel she was to me. Not as bad as this time around but pretty bad. When we got back together she recounted how she had felt about the situation. She was hurt and I left her, she didn't want to break up I did it, she just needed me to understand. That's her side. How it actually happened was the night before my birthday she wanted to go drink with a friend and cry about her ex whom it was there anniversary, already that would be a problem to anyone in a relationship with someone. Then on top of that she said she didn't want me to go, she didn't think I should mind she would rather spend her bday with friends than me, called me a drama queen, said she didn't really deeply love me like she should, and took off without a second of hesitation. So you tell me if BPD's don't have their memory as some kind of distortion and have no common sense or empathy for someone they claim to love. She said she didn't remember saying any of that other stuff so who knows, it's strange though.

[nylonsquid]

"... .they don't like to take responsibility for the crap they pull on us."

Maybe it is just semantics, but my wife seems more UNABLE to take responsibility, like the very memory of what was said or done is not allowed to form or come into awareness. Conveniently selective amnesia, but real, it seems to me at least.

Add to that the delusional wild accusations or lies that a BPD sufferer throws out, and you have life in hell, or at least more stress than you ever thought humanly possible.
 

Interesting. So when they are out and cheating they follow their feelings, which are real, whilst believing you to be the abuser or the wrongdoer to excuse their behaviour. But once you put facts in front of them that they can't argue then they lose memory or dissociate? Its as if the ego denies them access because the shadow self (Jungian: the bad person that is pushed to the back of the psyche to maintain self image) is about to be exposed and that shadow self has to do whatever it takes to stay in hiding.

It baffles me how such an intelligent girl like her can discuss such big topics yet cannot face some things on a conscious level. Does this play a part in the lying? Are they aware that they're lying? Isn't lying also a part of pushing things away to avoid reflection? Is it conscious lying? I guess even psychologists don't really know.

[Sunfl0wer]

The next day in the evening when I saw her, she'd just walked in and I already felt bad about triggering her (even if I didn't mean to) so I got up and hugged her, apologized and said: "sorry if I pushed too much last night. Whatever happens between us I'll always love you". She seemed completely fine and was smiling the whole time but get this... she said she does NOT remember what happened. When I asked about that she said she remembers being upset but not what I had said... .

Wtf... How can one not remember such a fight and be A-Ok the next day? Is there a memory problem with these people? She said she remembers the email and that's why she cried but if I had said something "You're lucky I don't remember what you've said".

Anyone experience such a thing and have any clue on what it means?

Dissociation happens on a spectrum.  The minor kind is driving and being on auto pilot and forgetting to make a turn due to being lost in thought.  Then on the other end is Dissociative Identity Disorder (aka DID aka MPD Multiple Personality Disorder) where a persons streams of consciousness and aspects of themselves are at varying levels compartmentalized.  There is varying degrees of dissociation, and also methods. (Depersonalization, derealization, losing time, etc)

I recall there being some controversy regarding the DSM and some wanting to classify BPD as a dissociative disorder.  They DO also have some compartmentalization going on as well, or also could be comorbid.  There are varying types of dissociation, and BPD is included... .primary, tertiary, etc.  


(EP= Emotional Part; ANP= Apparently Normal Part
Likely when the pwBPD has you painted black they are storing all that into a compartment of a p1ssed off angry part or such, an EP.  When you are all white, likely another EP that stores the happy stuff.  Yet, it really is not that simple, but that is one possibility of why one in one emotional state cannot recall when not in that emotional state, cause the info literally gets contained separately.)

Anyways, my point is, that persons with BPD also may have a strong level and ability to compartmentalize hence literally be unable to recall or access info that was stored while in another ego/emotional state at another time.

And then there are persons, BPD and non BPD, that do legitimately mislead, manipulate, etc.

However, the example given, didn't seem she was triggered in that moment.  You were being kind, and not confrontational.  Seems to me, she was literally at that moment THAT disconnected from what happened the day before.

[nylonsquid]

However, the example given, didn't seem she was triggered in that moment.  You were being kind, and not confrontational.  Seems to me, she was literally at that moment THAT disconnected from what happened the day before.

Hi Sunflower! Thanks for sharing this info! Its really interesting. To be clear, that one night I did trigger her as I was breaking down all the events that happened between us:
-that she punched me (flirtingly) on the first night
-cheated on me
-destroyed my birthday cake
-attacked me
-weeped on the floor when I observed how she was on the her phone all night.

This is when she was got really upset and I insisted I was merely retelling events. She was very distraught and left crying. It was the next day that she walked in home with a smile and when I apologized she didn't recall what was said. Is it because she couldn't access the memory from the previous night because it was too painful?

These people are reptilian; driven by their id and lust and controlled by their ego. Hungry emotional survivors

[enlighten me]

I wondered about this for a while. One theory I have on it is to do with cortisol the fight or flight hormone. One of the effects of this is that it interferes with the memory. When angry we produce a lot of cortisol.

A study on PTSD showed that Swedish soldiers who served in Bosnia and ended up with PTSD had lower than normal salivatory cortisol levels before deployment. They believe that these lower cortisol levels meant that when a traumatic incident occurred then it was remembered in full detail rather than being dampened down. So it could then play on the sufferer more traumatically.

If pwBPD produce more cortisol or it affects memory more then this could be why the memory loss occurs. I cant recall any memory loss from my exs that wasn't from a time of high tension.

[Sunfl0wer]

These people are reptilian; driven by their id and lust and controlled by their ego. Hungry emotional survivors

Then what were you attracted to?
Do you think this is a bit of black/white thinking, maybe a type of villanizing to cope?
(I know this is included in the lessons of detaching somewhere as a coping mechanism but I cannot find my way around in there too well to cut/past, eh)

Hi Sunflower! Thanks for sharing this info! Its really interesting. To be clear, that one night I did trigger her as I was breaking down all the events that happened between us:

Exactly what I meant. In one situation she was triggered, yet the next, she was not.  While you having evidence of the trigger does NOT need to be present and visible to you... .You actually did observe that she had different memories with different emotional states of being.

Are we not all driven for survival?

Kinda reminds me of watching the Netflix series Lost.
Originally the Torturer character and the Schizophrenic character could be easily labeled as the "bad guys" until the survival of others depends on them and they come through and the "rules of society" alter then their value is exposed, no longer villains.

That's my view on BPD.  Just a range of what we as humans are capable of under certain biological and environmental mixes.  I may develop Alzheimer's or Parkinson's as I age.  Coulda myself have cystic fibrosis, or BPD or even ASPD, or muscular dystrophy. 

Yet, our interpretation of live, is really an illusion we cling to.  A narrative we create.  So how we decide to ultimately categorize stuff, well, a decision of sorts.  Anyways... . 
I suppose we cling to what we may.
I know I do.

[enlighten me]

The interesting thing about memory is how malleable it is. I watched a program the other day where they implanted memories in people by interviewing them. they read out facts and then added false facts. At first the people didn't recall it but after a few interviews they where filing in the gaps.

Another thing with memory is that it is mood dependent. Try recalling a bad memory when your in a good mood. I can but its vague. Alternately try recalling a good memory when your in a bad mood. This could be why thinking happy things elevates your mood as your mind has to be in a happy mood to recall it.

[nylonsquid]

Then what were you attracted to?
Do you think this is a bit of black/white thinking, maybe a type of villanizing to cope?
I'm just having fun with it She is a sweetheart to me though a monster too so I accept both sides of the coin. I kind of sympathize when I know she's in pain and trying to survive but alas, she's also responsible. I'm okay with it all.


Yet, our interpretation of live, is really an illusion we cling to.  A narrative we create.  So how we decide to ultimately categorize stuff, well, a decision of sorts.  Anyways... . 
I suppose we cling to what we may.
I know I do.

Funny you say this. I wrote this in an earlier post called "attention seeking":
"I've decided that there is no reasoning or words I can give her that she won't manipulate to her liking. There is no reason to follow when she says reason is only there to rationalize beliefs. There are no logical statements I can make when she says narratives are illusory because there is no pattern between events and events are random, that there is nothing to understand and that life is just is. She's very smart and into philosophy and spirituality. Since I cannot give her my words which to me is sharing my reality with her without her manipulating that, then I've decided that she is always a cheater and I should just accept that. "

More funny: We were watching the new OJ Simpson documentary (I highly recommend) and I'm convinced he's at least BPD. So I asked her based on her belief:
Me: ":)o you think what he did 'just is'? Or is there a narrative and a chain of events that led him to do this?"
Her: "Interesting... I don't know"
Me: "Got it"
Her hours later: "I kept thinking about it and I guess it is on some level and not on another"
Me: "what levels?"
Her: "Levels of perspective"
Me: "what are those?"
Her: "I don't know... All of OJ's life circumstances can be casually connected but they are not fundamentally being catalyzed by him, they are happening in a chain of events but he is not at the centre because there is no centre. Essentially he is the victim of his own terrible psychology. Even though there is no 'him' "
Me: "Ya, no one is responsible for their actions. We're all victims"
(I'm obviously playing along in this convo to get info)
Her: "You joke"
Me: "No its nice to know that whatever I do you'll always have the compassion to understand that I'm not responsible for what I do "

As you can see, this is an insight into the mind of someone with BPD. They break chains of events in order to escape cause and effect and reconstruct narratives to their liking because they know they are empty. I mean its written there but in code. I was trying to extract her logic then applying it on me. These are the same excuses she used on me when I caught her cheating and I wanted to understand and she said there was nothing to understand and that I shouldn't try linking events and creating my own narratives...   Clever girl! Almost got me! Probably why I like her. Perhaps even admire :D

[lovenature]

Ya I have, it's called cognitive distortion; they make up their own reality based on their feelings of the moment. Sometimes they will claim to not remember doing something (poor behaviour is a common thing they don't remember because they can't ever be wrong), the disorder allows these lapses in memory as another defense against them feeling emotions they can't handle.