Anyone confront their ex about smearing? I want to

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My exgf was always smearing her exes. One was emotionally abusive and sexually degrading and another was frigid and never wanted her- who later changed to being a rapist/predator. Every woman she had dated had apparently  tried to grope her in public and had been obsessive and stalked her. Nothing nice was EVER said about any woman. She had been "abused" by everyone in some way.

She had cut a lot of people out of her life- me included.

So my ex dumps me and tells me I burnt her and to leave her alone. She ignores all my attempts to apologise... Rejects my calls... ends up changing her number and going 100% no contact. She doesn't even reply after I ask her for my things to be returned. I asked for months and she kept ignoring me. I had to then go to her flatmate/best friend to get him to help arrange for me to get my stuff.  He then abuses me on the phone telling me "She doesn't have your stuff ok! She doesn't want to talk to you. She wants you OUT of her life. Move on! You've been contacting her for months and it's unacceptable!"

I said "well I was contacting her to retrieve my stuff and she had ignored me! That's why I have contacted her"

He talked over me "Youll NEVER get closure from her! Move on. Don't ever contact her. Do not contact me. Dont contact her family!" and he hung up

Wow. I was shaking almost in tears

She clearly had told him I was bothering her non stop for no reason and was playing protector. YET she was the one deliberately ignoring me. I felt set up to look like a harasser!

Since then I have never contacted her again and I did not get my stuff back. But a mutual friend told me she had gone around saying I was a crazy stalker.

She is trying to ruin my credibility. my hometown has a really small gay community too. I'm concerned.

She only talks hogwash but what if next she claims I abused her or even lies that I tried assaulting her? She most likely fabricated most of her abuse stories (as I found out she lied about one stalker). So what terrible untruths will be said about me next!

All the other women never knew about the slander and so it continued. I do know. I want to write to my ex to tell her to stop the bs slander and that I and my family are all aware of her smearing antics and won't tolerate it. 

Thoughts?

[Diana82]

My exgf was always smearing her exes. One was emotionally abusive and sexually degrading and another was frigid and never wanted her- who later changed to being a rapist/predator. Every woman she had dated had apparently  tried to grope her in public and had been obsessive and stalked her. Nothing nice was EVER said about any woman. She had been "abused" by everyone in some way.

She had cut a lot of people out of her life- me included.

So my ex dumps me and tells me I burnt her and to leave her alone. She ignores all my attempts to apologise... Rejects my calls... ends up changing her number and going 100% no contact. She doesn't even reply after I ask her for my things to be returned. I asked for months and she kept ignoring me. I had to then go to her flatmate/best friend to get him to help arrange for me to get my stuff.  He then abuses me on the phone telling me "She doesn't have your stuff ok! She doesn't want to talk to you. She wants you OUT of her life. Move on! You've been contacting her for months and it's unacceptable!"

I said "well I was contacting her to retrieve my stuff and she had ignored me! That's why I have contacted her"

He talked over me "Youll NEVER get closure from her! Move on. Don't ever contact her. Do not contact me. Dont contact her family!" and he hung up

Wow. I was shaking almost in tears

She clearly had told him I was bothering her non stop for no reason and was playing protector. YET she was the one deliberately ignoring me. I felt set up to look like a harasser!

Since then I have never contacted her again and I did not get my stuff back. But a mutual friend told me she had gone around saying I was a crazy stalker.

She is trying to ruin my credibility. my hometown has a really small gay community too. I'm concerned.

She only talks hogwash but what if next she claims I abused her or even lies that I tried assaulting her? She most likely fabricated most of her abuse stories (as I found out she lied about one stalker). So what terrible untruths will be said about me next!

All the other women never knew about the slander and so it continued. I do know. I want to write to my ex to tell her to stop the bs slander and that I and my family are all aware of her smearing antics and won't tolerate it. 

Thoughts?

[Surnia]

Don't do it. You cannot control her. You cannot reach her.

It will come like a boomerang back to you.

[Diana82]

But I could potentially have damaging stuff said about me.

I know I should ignore her rubbish but if she can lie about having this one stalker, say her ex tried to rape her etc... What could she say about me?

She knows many people in the community and I am fearful I will be branded as abusive too.

Whereas if I tell her that I and others are aware of her smearing and won't tolerate it- maybe she will stop

[Surnia]

Okay, lets take a closer look to your fears.

What is your worst fear, what will happen when she is talking damaging stuff about you?

[Diana82]

The lesbian community in my hometown is very small. My ex already said I am a crazy stalker and I know she knows more people than I do and has a massive family.

 I'm sure she hasn't told her parents I abused her but she probably will tell her friends and cousins.

I know that my friends and family know the truth and that my ex is unstable. But I still feel like my ex should not continue to get away with ruining people's credibility in the community.  She clearly has a modus operandi... you hurt or argue with her and you will be discarded and smeared and called an abuser to anyone who will listen.

I want her to know people have worked her out and she cannot get away with slandering me 

[Surnia]

My ex already said I am a crazy stalker and I know she knows more people than I do and has a massive family.

So sort of damage is done already.

I know that my friends and family know the truth and that my ex is unstable.

Good. Good friends don't get caught be rumors.

you hurt or argue with her and you will be discarded and smeared and called an abuser to anyone who will listen.

Thats exactly why I think the best is not to confront her. Doing so you are feeding her with more arguments. This is the boomerang.

[VeryConfusedNon]

I know i'm taking this out of context.

you know how loyal some people can be as friends, but this one comment popped out for me "Youll NEVER get closure from her! Move on. Don't ever contact her. Do not contact me. Dont contact her family!"

Do you perhaps,think he knows about her? Basically he is telling you "you'll never get closure, I KNOW HER better than you, I know about her past, you will NEVER GET CLOSURE!, however I am her good friend and must stand up for her"

My ex's best friend? (female)

"break up with him before you break his heart"

said it So very often, even when she was the one way more interested in me.

[Seb]

I know how frustrating it is when someone is smearing you to others, but personally I'd let it go. Let your actions do the talking. Forget about her. Let her talk trash - people will soon start to see some disparity between what she's saying and who you really are. Even if you have to fake it, you can't show how much she's affecting you, because you will come off as the crazy stalker. You have to project an image of someone that's happy and getting on with your life, not someone that is obsessing about the unjust behaviour and accusations of an ex. Ignore what she's saying, the sooner you do the sooner she'll move on.

You've mentioned lots in your other threads that you were thinking about taking a job in Sydney or in London but your ex never wanted to go. Have you thought about that any more? Might be the perfect opportunity for you to start moving on with your life?

[Diana82]

Hi veryconfused...

Yes, you may have a point there...

My friends have said "he must know about her"

And I have also thought that how can her family not know she *may * be unstable? I know her parents already think she is very sensitive.

They're all smart people and wouldn't they know there's always two sides to every story? I was literally at the bedside of my ex's new born nephew two weeks prior to the break up. Her parents really liked me. They can't truly believe I would have turned into a crazy overnight.

But they appear to be her enablers.

[Diana82]

I do actually think my ex has some insight into her own issues yet she doesn't seem to see how they impact others. She only sees a therapist every few years and for only 2-3 sessions max.

Before breaking up with me she was sobbing " I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you". I have been so confused at why she would say that before dumping my ass!

I'm now starting to think that it was her way of telling me she has issues and that I am not really to blame but perhaps was just a trigger.

Also while dumping me she said that she couldn't look past it and felt that Everytime we argued- she emotionally disconnected from me more each time. And she added "maybe it's  a personality fault of mine"

[VeryConfusedNon]

Mine definitely does, I did not have any "FOG' so to speak of, if by this term, you mean searching for answers and discovering BPD, she basically spoon fed it to me on day 2, I just did a quick readover of the DMS-IV and left it at that. Big mistake? maybe.

Later on when she felt very lonely via LDR "I'm sorry your first gf had to be so crazy".

Thought it was cute, in a way that I felt, validated, that someone actually liked me so much, they'd feel crazy.

I now think she was being pretty literal about it.

If he knows her at all, he knows. My ex's friends have said her views or whatever are "f'ed up", or... how she views guys, yet she craves a relationship.

Did you ex (i know you are coming from a same sex relationship), ever say she was bisexual, or actually straight?, maybe at the beginning of the relationship if you were trying to tear down walls/barriers?

Their closest friends know... .  They know.

I hope.

I need more boundaries, I've told SO MANY people, especially after this past new years with copious amounts of alcohol. No doubt in a certain way, or if future situations are manipulated correctly, i will be seen as the crazy one.

It's best just to, if anything, go crazy here on these boards than attempt to make contact with the ex... .  and/or tell more people in real life about it.

[Diana82]

I did speak to a mutual friend about her crazy smearing and asked if he could please let me know if he hears anything from her. He hasn't so far and no longer keeps in touch with my ex.

But let's just say... I heard that this time I was not only a stalker but she had told people I tried to force myself on her (similar to what she said about her other ex)?

Isn't that slander? To accuse someone of something like assault even if it's not in court... She is spreading vicious rumours to harm someone's credibility .

I fell for her lies about having stalkers and am pretty sure she lied about almost being raped.  Again I believed it all and I'm sure everyone else would.

It's scary how well she can lie and distort events. She is a professional victim

[OFFtheTopRope]

Do NOT do it unless you wanna still be "defending" yourself this time next yr and the one after that, the rest of your life obsessed with clearing your name.  I mean this.  Ive done it.  Every single contact you make will be perceived as "stalkerish or creepy".  You will be defying her (in her mind) and the hate and resentment will just build.  If you EVER hhave hope of "reaching" her, dont.  You have been painted black and she is in the justifying stages to portray ymou badly, recruit ppl to join her "side", in order to avoid taking responsibility for any (or all) part she had in the breakup.  Convincing herself you are Satan is her twisted coping strategy.  Its primal, it kills you, its not fair.  Youre talking like making peace or appealing honestly to a BPD is possible.  Logic and empathy elude them.  Its just not in the makeup!  


I want to stress that is does NOT matter how selfless, appealing, well composed, intelligent, earnest, loving, adamant, frustrated, sympathetic, angry, apologetic, sacrificing, pissed off, logical, merciful or defensive of your own integrity you are!  Whatever words - i mean ANY will be taken as offensive and scary, setting her off in another tailspin of terror and smearing.  :)oing this will brush you with a fresh coat of black BPD paint.  Hard to understand?  Yes, i tried so long to get my head arond What the heck happened to the girl who usedbto hang onto my every word and just couldnt live without me.  Truth:  she is GONE, you neither won nor lost.  BPD overrules any gesture of humanity and sincerity.  Period!

Now if its one aspect i know what im talking about, its the fear and helplessness you feel on top of all this hurt.  The mortal pain ive endured for over a year of this kinda smear treatment is exhausting!  Know what?  Your ex lady is also deaf.  Ya keep thinking if you get more creative, say it just a little bit louder or differently, maybe theyll "hear" you.  Maybe theyll remember times you all shared, maybe a small part of her will "miss" you and snap out of it.  No, there is NONE of this.  

I started a thread last wk called "does she really hate me"?  You might ck out some of the great responses!  Its along the same lines youre talking about.  But please, please, please dont go down the same path i took on the pride & defense wagon.  My miserable smear campaign kept going everytime id wait a while then TRY contacting again in above ways.  There is no cooling off period or time healing any of their wounds.  Im sure in 10yrs if i broke NC again, my ex would still rage at me as if it just happened.  Again & again round the wheel we go.  

Ppl here are right.  Try to cut off all channels she has to you.  This may inc losing friends she may use as proxies .  Mines BS lies made me turn around and noone was left.  No kidding. Dont fuel her fire.  Youve already been burned.  Now its time to find your own internal closure.  Educate yourself on BPD, study NON codependent traits and behavior, and see your ex for who she REALLY is based on her abrupt and crazy actions.  Im still trying to pull out of the hook of "hanging onto the words they said".  

If you can endure this, you can endure anything!  Post here when you get the urge to break NC.

[Diana82]

My friend said something interesting to me today... she said my ex is in fact the abuser. The bully.

My ex spent so much time slandering other people for being abusive and bullies. She was always the poor victim.

But it is her who spreads malicous rumours. She is the one who brutally cuts people out of her life and gives the silent treatment even if someone is struggling. She is the one who cannot take responsibility for her own actions and will slam you if you criticise her.

She is a master manipulator and anyone will believe her as she is the most charming and seemingly genuine and warm person you could meet. It's true... my ex was very likeable. My whole family liked her instantly. She gives off an air of being stable and mature and kind.

It's hard for me to think of my ex has the one who is actually the abuser. What do you think?

[MaybeSo]

A relationship with a person who struggles with something like a personality disorder is going to be experienced as abusive, at least emotionally, sooner or later.

That's the nature of the disorder and the chaos and  hurt it causes.

So, yah... .  she's an abuser... .  I doubt she lays awake at night plotting abuse; rather, it's the nature of this confusing disorder that she will behave in ways that are hurtful and confusing to those she is close to, and they will expereince it as emotional abuse; how bad this gets or how long it goes on... .  moves into how well you take care of yourself, or not, and how grounded you are about your own boundaries.

I'm not an attorney.  There's an area on this forum that deals with legal issues, divorce, separation etc., and they may have more insight into what legally defines slander.  From past reads, I beleive in court you would have to prove that she has directly and  materially damaged you.  That's a hard thing to prove, and probably not worth it (the time and expense) even if you could.  If she created an organized campaign intending wrongfully to put you out of business with slanderous lies, and you could prove that, then... .  you might have a case.

What you are mostly talking describing right now is opinion and sour grapes shared with personal mutual freinds about someone after an r/s ended, with the fear that it might move into something more seriously slanderous. 

Bottom line you cannot control her.  People aren't stupid.  Anyone who has seen her in action over time knows... .  oh, there goes another relationship down the drain, wonder what evil deed this one did?  Those who don't see that, oh well.

You can't control people!  A small community would 'learn' about how someone operates over time.

BTW, The neighbors advice was spot on. Spot on.

If you pursue this in any way going forward, you are essentially helping her case that you can't let go and move on... .  you are assisting her potential argument that you are a stalker, or a harasser.

If you have valuable items of material worth still at her place, and it's gotten this contentious, most folks use a neutral go between or failing that, call the sheriff and with police assistance arrange a time to pick things up with supervision.

I'm sorry, I know you have been shocked about her reactions and how unreasonable she has been, but, of course, she did over time complain to you about all her past lovers, so of course, not surprising,  now it's your turn... .  she is showing you over and over again how her head works and how she operates.  She gets close to someone then that person in her mind turns into a tormentor or persecutor... .  this is how her mind works, this is how intimacy plays out for her. She was showing you that earlier, too.  She sounds pretty emotionally messed up.  It's not personal to you... .  this is what "emotionally messed-up" looks like.  It's not about you or anyone specifically... .  unless you refuse to detach.  If you stay attached in any manner, it's going to devolve into being a lot about you (even though it isn't at face value about you at all)... .  by your participation and by your reactions and your staying hooked-in and trying to control her disorder. 

[eng123]

I understand how you feel.   I have been through a similar experience.  I recommend that you stop contacting her to save yourself.  If she has talked about stalkers and abuse in the past, then she is dangerous because she may very well falsely accuse you of these things.

I did not believe all the stories in this site at first.  I thought that they were too wild to be true. I thought that posters were exaggerating. 

These are some concrete examples to show you the real danger of the pwBPDs false accusations, the danger of not knowing about BPD, the danger of not being able to walk away with no closure from her, and the danger that you might not know what she is saying to others about you.

She is able to tell very damaging lies, even to go as far as to file a false police report, and run it until the case was thrown out. 

She is able to smear you just before a good bye kiss. 

My experience was that she disappeared, didn’t show up for a planned (her plans) get together with no warning, and then no callbacks at all.  I was horrified, I was afraid for her safety.   After two days I found out she was ok, I was confused. 

I had no conception of what “a pwBPD will cut someone out of their life” was.  I had no clue what that meant or that it could even be possible.  No words, no texts, no arguments, no warning, no responses…just gone.  I didn’t believe anyone would possibly act that way.  It is mental illness, refusal to take responsibility for feelings and actions, and lack of empathy – look at the silence as absolute proof.

I was beside myself.   She didn’t want to see me or even return my call?  Not even to say I don’t want to see you anymore, not even a leave me alone?  Suddenly, out of the blue, how could that be?  Had she said leave me alone or don’t call me, then I would have been shocked and devastated, but I would have had something to go on.  I didn’t even have a hint.

I expected every day to get a call from her.  I thought it was one of her depression episodes where she wouldn’t talk to anyone and just sat in the house alone.  Those could last for weeks…   Usually after a couple of days of not hearing from her, I would go to her house to check on her, and she would be depressed and alone (lucky for me?), but happy to see me.  It was a game for her to no return phone calls and get everyone worried…her other friends would get just as worried do the same check visits.

I went to her house, I had no idea.  She opened the door, looked at me, then without a word turned around and walked back into the house leaving the door open.   I did not know what to think or do, I just stood on the porch.  I did not want to leave because I wanted some closure.  One minute later her neighbor came out of her house, she knew me, knew that I was a good person and no threat.  I told the neighbor that I was concerned that she was alright.  The neighbor was knocking on the windows and calling her name, and then called her on the cellphone.

She answered the call, the neighbor listened to her for a minute then said “She doesn’t want you here.”  I was confused, crushed, scared.  In no way am I a stalker, thug, or stupid goon who can’t take a hint – here I am in broad daylight, standing on a front porch.  I stammered that I was really concerned that she was alright and left that instant, absolutely confused.    I am glad that I stayed on the porch and left right away.

A few weeks later, she falsely accused her landlord of pointing a gun at her, attempted murder.  It was completely false and the case was eventually dropped.  She was not paying her rent.  The landlord spent time in jail and was financially ruined.  The landlord was like a father to her.  He would never have done anything to hurt her.  What she did to the landlord is pure evil despite how much he helped her out in terms of forgiving rent, helping expenses, etc…

Later the landlord and I talked about the lies she told each of us.  The landlord confided that a month prior to this “disappearance” she texted him that “I am scared of him, I don’t know what he is going to do” and asked him to come over while I was visiting.   I remember her frantically texting at the end of very nice evening and I was getting ready to go, I remember thinking that it was odd.  The landlord came walking in without knocking, he was almost shaking as I walked past him out the door.  I remember thinking that was odd, but I didn’t connect the dots.  She was smearing me and I had absolutely no clue.  I didn’t learn this until two years afterward.  I remember bringing over cold medicine that evening for her.  I can’t think of much more evil.

I am so glad that I left that porch right away.  I shudder to think was might have happened. 

[Elsegundo]

I tried to stop the smear with an exwBPD.  She just kept making it worse and worse.  Any reasonable attempt I made was met with more and more hostility, and larger consequences and smears.  Every action can become a tool her to talk about you.  No more actions, no more tools. 

It took months AFTER my last attempt (there were only a few, and namely to get my stuff which she ended up never returning) for her to stop, and each time she was dumped for the next 1.5 years, she'd start back up again--EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T IN CONTACT WITH HER.  The good thing is that she looked so crazy that even people who first didn't think she was started to distance themselves from her, which created a vindication naturally. 

I know it sucks, but each contact will likely make things worse. 

[bpdspell]

Diana,

You are getting some great advice on here. I understand that you are hurting and devastated by being abruptly discarded. But contacting someone when they want to be left alone makes you look like a desperate and insane person. We know that you are in pain here. I understand the injustice of it all. But BPD is a real serious mental disorder and once you've been painted black you are the enemy. It's irrational thinking on her part but believe me when I say she is doing you a huge favor by removing herself from your life. You are giving her way too much of your power to her, her thoughts, her motivations, and it's only hurting you more.

My ex smeared my name after the breakup and I was so ashamed and embarrassed because I actually listened to all the crap he spewed to me about all his ex's. Turns out I had been sleeping with the enemy all along. Yes they lie-tell but it's a reflection on their character; not ours. There's no need for you to defend the truth; the truth about who you are will stand on it's own. You cannot control them; you can only control how you react.

As far as your stuff try not to use it as a last ditch effort in trying getting through to her. Things will never go back to the way they were and she can never validate you. She doesn't have the keys to your happiness. Unfortunately many of us on here have had to lose some stuff in order to regain our sanity. Are your things really worth being humiliated over and over again?

My ex held on to personal things of mine as he idealized his new object and boy was I pissy. But I had to let it go. I had to surrender. It may seem like they're winning but they're not. They're disordered in the mind and heart and they will never have inner peace.

Spell

[Diana82]

Thanks everyone for your advice

I do see what you're saying. I've already seen what happened when I tried to ask her for my other stuff back. It was a nightmare

Firstly she shows 0 respect and doesn't respond when I ask for it back. Then she dumps only three books on my sidewalk in the night... anyone could walk over them. And no note and no response as to what I should do with her stuff (she left things at mine too).

And then I am giving the silent treatment for 2 months after I ask for the rest of my things. 

What is this hostility actually about (when you try to apologise or you even try to ask for your stuff back?)

Even if someone cheated on me- if they later sent me a note asking for my things to be returned I would be able to at least respond with a one-liner. I wouldn't talk about the relationship... but I could respond. Sometimes bits and pieces need to be tidied up after a long relationship. I can't imagine what she would have done had we lived together!  she wouldn't be able to just disappear and ignore me forever. We'd have to be in touch to work out house stuff.

Her flat mate told me she didn't "have the rest of my stuff" apparently. So either it was lost or I lost it who knows.  But why wasn't my ex able to tell me that?

I had even asked her flatmate if she could just give me a quick call so I can clarify where I left the stuff (I couldn't get through to him). But he barked at me saying she "doesn't want to talk to you OK! She wants you out of her life!"

He sounded so wicked. This was a guy who was always so nice to me whenever I saw him and came over (a lovely gentle gay guy).

My ex must have the ability to turn others against people with her smearing.

Anyone else never receive their things back and were met with hostility? 

[Diana82]

I do agree BPDspell... I'm really angry at myself for even going to her house to try to get my stuff. I'm angry at myself for contacting her crazy flatmate to see if he could help.

My parents kept telling me "Are you sure you're not just doing this to try to force her to talk or force her to be decent?"

They said that my things can be replaced (although I left my ring at her place that my Mum got me from Africa).

But I was so determined on PRINCIPLE to get what was rightly mine returned. I became obsessed with it. And yes, I wanted to believe this person I had invested so much in was actually the same decent person I thought she was.

She didn't respond after 2 months when I asked her so politely for my stuff to just be returned and even asked what to do with her stuff (should have just trashed it).  I kept thinking- she is the one who dumped ME!  She should be decent... she should be responding about my things.

I'm sure her flatmate has now smeared me back to her saying I am crazy asking for my stuff back when they don't have it. And they probably think I am just trying to get hold of her.

My sister told me "Why would you ever think she'd reply or talk to you after she changed her number? She is being consistent with her silence"

[eng123]

Don't be too hard on yourself for trying to get your things back.  Think of it as learning what to avoid doing in the future because the temptation to talk to her and get things will be back.  Think of it as dodging a bullet as well.  They might have crazy allies (the pwBPD will eventually turn on them too) to avoid.

Letting go of money owed and items is tough.  I invested a lot monetarily and emotionally, it felt just wasted or conned away.  She does not have our values or principles, returning or paying back is not in her thought processes to be decent.  She owed me $3,000+ dollars including $1,000 borrowed about a month before she disappeared.  It was hard to let that one go for me, it was like an slap in the face. I consider it another 3,000 reasons to avoid her.  A legal situation defending an accusation would be much more costly.

Dumping books on a sidewalk in the middle of the night is pure messing with you.  I got 2 or 3 little hi texts in the middle of the night about 2 months after the disappearance, it is a ping or a irritant.  She knows it bothers you and you really want the possessions back.  Please don't feed that. Let it go.

The hostility comes from some screwed up mentally ill thought process of BPD.  It is probably a misperception or crazy idea that BPD created in her mind that doesn't have any basis on what you ever did or said.  I once looked at a page in her journal based on a conversation that we had about what she owed me, she wrote what she thought I was thinking, it said PAY ME BACK YOU F**N B*TCH.  I don't use foul language or raise my voice.  It scared me, it was like someone was speaking lies into her ear or someone evil was speaking through her writing.  It was just crazy, but she never let me know these thoughts.

I saw her about 1 year after the disappearance and no contact, she looked at me will anger, distain, and digust, I had never seen her look at me that way ever.  I had no idea where it came from.  I had always been kind and decent to her, it doesn't make sense.  That look really hurt me though, like I guess it was supposed to.

I saw her about 2 weeks ago in a restraurant/club, 3 years after the disappearance, and 2 years since the disgusted look.   I have a new life and was with a good friend.  She kept looking at me with an expression of curiosity and interest.  She did not have the expression of hostility, which does not make sense if she was afraid of me based on her smears.  I acted like I didn't see her, but I was scared of losing my new life!  3 years ago I could not imagine life without her in it, now I am afraid that I will want to see her again, that old temptation.  She has not changed or worked on herself.

It took a long time to get over her.  I was afraid that it was taking too long (common concern here).  I felt better when I truly felt that I forgave and let go - and finally really meant it to myself.

[Diana82]

interesting experience you had! I think they are extremely bitter and resentful people.

My ex had a long unforgiving memory and would remember things that happened years ago as if it happened yesterday. She also remembered little btchy comments some people had made to me that I had let go or forgotten about.

I am not sure if I mentioned- but I recently got in touch with one of the girls my ex had always painted as an obsessive harassing type who had to be 'removed' and cut off.  My ex was ALWAYS so scared to run into this girl.

We couldn't go to gay events together- because this girl 'may be there'.  We couldn't even go to a pride march where hundreds of people would be- apparently this girl would be a threat to her.

I asked her what happened with this girl and she told me that they had met through a community gay event she held at her house. And the girl had liked my ex and my ex didn't feel the same at all. But this girl didn't get the message ever and became obsessed with her- calling my ex every day trying to get in touch. My ex told me "I'd look at my phone and see missed calls all the time! she just always wanted to see me. She was so obsessed!"

Apparently the girl also called her family's house and her mother told her she needed to be "cruel to be kind" and cut her off.

So one day my ex answered her call and said "I'm not interested in you OK! You need to stop calling me and take the hint! I don't want to see you. Stop calling my house! I'm not interested"

And she said she never heard a word since from this girl.  Yet she was so scared to run into her.

Anyway- turns out this girl is friends of a friend of mine (small circle). And she told me the complete opposite and had long assumed my ex was bipolar (a lot of people did).

She told me my ex and her were FRIENDS who started a gay event together. She admitted she did like her at one point but my ex didn't and they remained friends. This girl said she also had two girlfriends in the time she knew my ex. She said they became good friends and one day my ex called her and cancelled their dinner plans and barked "I will NOT be your Counsellor!"

And the girl was like "huh?"

No further explanation. My ex apparently then never spoke to her again- just cut her off. Blocked on facebook etc. Similar to what happened to me.

This girl said that my ex is "not what she seems" and that she is so accomplished, smart and seemingly kind and stable. But she is "unwell".

It makes sense. My ex has pretty much made me out to be crazy and this girl... .  and probably basically any woman she dates!

Do you think the reason my ex was so scared to run into this girl was because she knew she cut her off- and then lied about her?

I'd never seen anyone avoid someone so much. Maybe my ex is fully aware of her own deception and so when I did imply she was deceptive (in the break up fight)- that's why she went crazy at me and dumped me.

[eng123]

Trying to make sense of what they think or do is a waste of time. 

Accepting that they are mentally ill and the resulting thinking and actions don't make sense.

Trying to figure out why she cut me off has been a waste of time.  3 years later it is still a mystery.  I regret the hours wasted in trying to make sense out of something that was just mental illness/confusion, when I could have been doing other things for me.

I was accused of being controlling and demanding, and probably harrassing after the visit.  If anything I was too supportive, tolerant, and thoughtful.  I never told her to do anything or that she could not do anything.  Any boundary I set (and I didn't know I was setting boundaries) she raged at.

Avoidance is a way to protect yourself from feelings and not deal with issues.  I suspect that she was absolutely committed to avoiding me for the past 3 years.  I don't know how she can so consistently avoid me when she is constantly changing with the breeze in every other area of her life. 

I did notice that her exes always seemed to be trying to get in contact with her.    I truly believe that I am one of the very few that actually did not continue to pursue her.   Some have pined for her and followed her for YEARS.  It used to piss me off that they would continue to call her.  She must leave every relationship abruptly.  She leaves guys believing that she maybe might come back since it didn't make any sense.  I did not want to be one of those guys, now I feel sorry for them.

[Diana82]

I actually feel like a stalker now. I've even questioned my own sanity.

My ex even told me patrionisingly when breaking up with me that I " need help" and I have a mean streak.

I do think I should have stopped after a couple of unsuccessful attempts to reconcile . I also think I should have just forgotten about my stuff after she ignored me for 2 months.

It's like I was punished with silence and she knew it would infuriate me. And it worked.

But why do you think leaving my books on the sidewalk in plastic was messing with me?

I actually think her flatmate did it in the night. My ex would probably have been scared to come anywhere near my house. It was such an icy cold thing to do though. It seemed to stink of hatred...

I know she feels "burnt" by me so it's about her now hating on me

[Diana82]

The weird irony is that our  break up fight was about me being suspicious of her character.

I was getting suspicious of her inconsistencies in stories and actions.

After almost 3 years together I still didn't understand my ex. I'd keep learning of new abuse stories too and they would weirdly change. She seemed to have had a life full of abuse or assault. But never filed police reports and nobody else knew.

When I questioned my ex or ever said something a bit critical she would snap and bite my head off. It was scary.

She'd always said she never wanted to send me nude photos via cell phone. She told me from the start that she was against it. She was also conservative and had a low libido.

I was fine with her not sending nude shots- all good. Then randomly 2.9 years later she texts me a large photo of her breasts. It was out of character.

I had felt she was always insecure with me and feared abandonment. And I sensed recently she was even more insecure. So in a cafe I asked her why she changed her mind about sending nude photos- when she'd been against it for so long. She didn't seem to want to answer so I probed and she ended up biting my head off saying "I DONT HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OK!"

I was stunned. It was do rude and unnecessary.

Later that night I stewed on it and was upset over an argument I also had with my mum. All my suspicions about my ex surfaced and we ended up fighting over the phone. I told her she was too inconsistent and defensive. She got even more defensive and kept disagreeing.

I also implied she may have been deceptive with me. She cracked it and told me "I am a deeply honest person! You are a suspicious person never satisfied with my answers! Nobody has ever said this about me in my whole life"

Later she dumps me claiming I burnt her.

And then she erases me and changes her number.

I got dumped for basically being honest that I was suspicious over her inconsistencies and defensiveness.

Do you smell a rat?

[eng123]

Questioning your own sanity - we have all been there

Feel like a stalker - I felt the same, like I missed some hint or clue... .  It does not feel right or look right to you to continue doing what you are doing.  I would follow your instincts and reasoning and not get in contact with her.  Maybe your logic and instincts are trying to protect you.

If you were truly obsessed or a stalker, then you would not be questioning whether you were really sane or a stalker.  The fact that you are questioning your ideas and actions means that you are not crazy.  If you were really crazy and a stralker then you would be following her around and doing crazy things.

She told me and her landlord so many stories about her past, abuse, rape, stalking, etc... .  I always thought it was weird that there were no protection orders for stalkers and police reports ect... .    Yes, the stories were inconsistent.  Most of what whe told us was not real, it may have been real in her mind.   While the landlord was fighting for his freedom his lawyers discovered that she had changed her name (legally), lied about her age (not a bid deal I guess), but had also made false accusations of rape in the past.    I don't know what stories were real. 

Silence can be punishment or maybe just general abuse to take hurt out on you.

Leaving books out on a sidewalk - if it is not messing with you, then it is just weirdness.  Who does that?  That is not normal.  It is silly that we are analyzing it! LOL

If I ever questioned her, she would get flustered and try to change the subject.  In an instant she could mirror my mood or statements.  If I said that I didn't deserve to be treated like canceling a dinner at the last moment, she would say that I was being mean.  It is projection of her feelings about herself on to you.

[Elsegundo]

Just put her things in a box and mail them.  Seeing them will make you crazy. 

I understand how tiny the lesbian world is.  It can be REALLY hard.  I also know it's rarely as awful as our hurt hearts think it will be, especially after some time.  People know YOU.  Trust them to make good choices.

[Diana82]

It was weird how my ex kept focusing on the fact I implied she might be deceptive. I didn't even use this word but she kept saying "You are saying something VERY clear about my character. I have never been called deceptive or dishonest in my entire life by anybody. It's bizarre"

Could this because nobody else has caught on to her distortions? Her family and friends didn't even know that she was bullied throughout her childhood... or that she was "almost raped".

To be dumped over telling off your partner for being too defensive and inconsistent is weird. I've never heard of it.

But she sure knows how to make me feel bad. Because when she started sobbing, she also added in "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" and "Why do people always hurt me?'

I fell for it and took back everything I said to her and apologised and apologised. Then she switched out of sob mode to attacker mode and dumped me. She had a way to make me feel sorry for her

But I remember thinking- what does she mean by telling me "I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you!"

What on earth has that got to do with anything and why say that before dumping me!  Was it her way of telling me she has issues?

Any ideas?

[seeking balance]

hi diana,

I understand where you are right now - that crazymaking hamster wheel of your own mind.

for me, focusing on the actual facts of the disorder helped me start to detach.  living in the situation described is going to make anyone question everything.  one of the best pieces of advice that I received was something like this:  you lived it, you know it is crazy - what is it going to take to let go and focus on your feelings now?

Frankly, I was scared... .  fear of losing friends, fear of divorce, fear of being alone, fear really masked my broken-heart.  I loved my ex and focusing on all the other distractions... .  well, I could delay my grief into manageable chunks. 

Eventually, I tired of the hamster wheel and leaned into the pain.

we can focus on the facts of BPD and look for patterns, but none of us can know what is in our exes heads... .  looking there for our answers tended to keep my hamster wheel spinning.

peace,

SB

[Diana82]

Can I ask you guys what you would think if your partner starting announcing new abuse stories every few months but then they'd change?

I honestly couldn't keep up anymore and didn't feel I understood my ex. This is what lead me in the end to getting angry at her for being so inconsistent and defensive when asked about her changes.


For example...

In the beginning my ex seemed to be VERY open about the horrible treatment she got from her exes. I appreciated her honesty, but at the same time felt it was inappropriate to be over sharing- especially with a new girlfriend. She also could never say anything nice about her exes whom she obviously would have liked at one point. Normally people do say some off things about their exes but she took it to a different level. I had tried to say a couple of times "but you were with such and such for 9 months and you had a long distance with her... .  there must have been something you liked about them?"

She only slammed them.

She told me early on that her first girlfriend was cold, distant and frigid. Apparently she never wanted her sexually and they didn't have sex for 7 months (out of a 9 month relationship). It got so bad that they had to go to couples counselling and my ex said "by the end of the relationship I was climbing the walls I was so frustrated!"   This girl had then dumped my ex via text message and my ex was depressed for days-couldn't get out of bed.

Then she met a girl from interstate and they started a long distant but this new woman emotionally abused her and sexually degraded her. She would make patrionising comments and never want to have sex with my ex either.

So basically both of her exes didn't find her attractive and sexually degraded her and were emotional bullies. It appeared nobody found my ex attractive- before me. I was the one who made her feel loved and special- and that suited me because I do have rescuing tendencies and want to be the knight in shining armour.

She also told me she never dated men before and refused to kiss anyone on the first date as she was a traditionalist. She kissed me on third date.

So... I got to know her stories as per above.  She also told me she was bullied throughout childhood and had an unhappy childhood. Her parents did nothing much to help her, nor did her teachers.

Fast forward a year...

My ex now portrays herself as the desirable one. She tells me all these women she dated had been obsessed with her... had stalked her... had tried to grope her in public all the time. Then she randomly announced she had "kissed 10 men" (despite telling me she never kissed on the first date and didn't date men so how does that work?)

Fast forward another year... .  

We had a fight one night over her snapping at me rudely. She had also rolled over rudely in bed and we had not had sex for weeks.

I decide to up and leave her place after her being so rude and she freaks out and has a panic attack. The next day she is sobbing all morning and then told me she was forced on by the same ex whom she had always told me was frigid. She said she didn't feel like sex for a long time after.

She told me she had to go to counselling-alone.  So the entire relationship she tells me they went TOGETHER to counselling because of her ex's frigid issues. And now that has changed and her ex now apparently assaulted her and tried to rape her?

Then she started telling me this same ex had tried to force public displays of affection on her all the time- yet in the beginning she told me this ex was cold and distant!

I couldn't keep up!

how can a frigid ex now be a predator/rapist ex? I didn't even think to ask her at the time because she was crying so much and looked so traumatised suddenly.

Would anyone else find this weird?

[Diana82]

Second question - does anyone have any insights into why BPDs lie or exaggerate abuse/harassment?

It may help me understand the smearing...

My ex always seemed threatened... or seemed to be on the "look out for danger".  I thought maybe she was like this because she had been bullied throughout childhood (so she says) and never got significant help for it.

So perhaps being bullied can lead to being paranoid about safety and misinterpreting people's actions and words as abusive?

She would constantly fear abandonment too and snap easily at me (if she misunderstood what i was saying as being threatening or critical).

After our break up fight I had angrily replied to her via text saying "I'm going out tonight... so maybe we chat another time"

I wanted to cool off.

She told me later when dumping me that this was the CLINCHER for her. This was me making a point and (most likely in her mind a sign I was going to leave her first).

She would freak out so much in arguments... ie the time when she had a panic attack when I left her place after she spoke rudely to me.

[seeking balance]

diana,

abuse stories are common - it is a cornerstone for developing a loaded attachment bond.  you started out as the savior while you listened with sympathy.  you became the persecutor over time in her mind and in her reality... .  you cannot apply logic to this nor can you control it.  to learn more - read about karpman triangle.

yes, my ex told friends she was surviving an abusive marriage... .  yes, it was unfair and it hurt... .  no matter what you say, time shows the full story.

what is going on with you - how can we help you focus a bit more on your feelings so you can slow that hamster wheel down?

[Diana82]

The reason I asked people's thoughts on the ex turned rapist story is because sometimes I actually think I'm a very suspicious person.

Prior to this ex, I was with a pathological liar. My recent BPD ex chose to point this out to me when she was dumping me. And told me I have baggage and that's why I am suspicious of her.

She said I need help for being so suspicious.

Yet... I kept saying I was never suspicious until I saw the inconsistencies.

So I just want to hear what others would have done... had their own partner turned around 3 years into their relationship and claimed they were almost raped and the story changed?

How would u have approached it? I feel i also need to learn to approach potential liars better...

I tend to let it fester and rot and then explode at them later about it

[Diana82]

I don't know for certain if my ex lied about being almost raped btw.

I only assume.

Considering she lied about having one obsessive stalker and the almost rape story changed... I'm thinking it's a strong possibility my ex lied or heavily exaggerated all her abuse stories.

I also had a gut feeling something wasn't right about her and her stories. I had this inkling she wasn't a stable character but couldn't be coherent about it. So in the break up fight my words were all over the place. I brought up stupid examples to prove her inconsistencies rather than just tell her in a calm manner I can't keep up with all the changes. This was also fuel for her bring able to tell everyone I had a crazy "spat" and need help.

[VeryConfusedNon]

What were you doing to be labeled as stalkerish?

I just read a comment about how if you question it, you probably aren't.

Everyone who knows me knows I am an "internet stalker", but I never put the information to use, except recently, when I got a text off an unknown number and am fairly sure it was my ex. I send some ... .  text messages, non prosecuting... .  You know... perusing facebook profiles... etc... .  

I can't stop looking at my ex's online stuff, are you doing this?

[anonnon]

But she sure knows how to make me feel bad. Because when she started sobbing, she also added in "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" and "Why do people always hurt me?'

I fell for it and took back everything I said to her and apologised and apologised. Then she switched out of sob mode to attacker mode and dumped me. She had a way to make me feel sorry for her

But I remember thinking- what does she mean by telling me "I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you!"

What on earth has that got to do with anything and why say that before dumping me!  Was it her way of telling me she has issues?

Any ideas?

I've seen you asking about this comment a LOT, hoping to unravel the mystery and provide your own sense of closure.

You've answered it here for yourself, though.


Is there an answer you've been perhaps hoping to hear Diana, or has it been a genuine mystery? Your theoretical reason you've provided for her saying it seems so... .  hopeful. You're caught up in trying to put her first, still, and not yourself.

Yes, she was probably trying to hurt you and/or elicit sympathy. She's disordered, so you'll never know for sure. She probably couldn't tell you herself.

(Or could even just be her accepting the circumstances she believes can never change - an acknowledgment of returning to her usual state.)

[Diana82]

Veryconfusednon>

I did not stalk my ex. When she dumped me she asked me to leave her alone cos I apparently " burnt her".

I didn't contact her for two days. Then I tried calling her because I wanted to reconcile. I didn't believe the break up was real. I found it hard to accept shed break up with me so hastily after an argument. I tried again next day and sent her an apologetic  handwritten letter in her mailbox. The next week I tried calling 4 x times and emailed. That's when she sent me a dismissive text saying she wishes to have "no more contact on the this".

I guess I should have then backed off but I asked for more explanation. She continued to ignore me and then changed her number.

I let things be for a month but realised she had my mums books, my ring, clothes etc. So i emailed her  asking if she can drop them off or pick them up. She ignored me for 2 weeks and I emailed again and that's when I find my books dumped on the sidewalk by my gate. No note... And none of the other stuff.

It was so cold! I couldnt get over it. The act was full of f&ck you hatred.

I had to then ask her to return the REST of my stuff but she again ignored me and didn't respond at all. I waited 2 months. That's when I contacted her flatmate/best friend to ask for help and was abused by him telling me to " leave her alone" because she wants me " out of her life!" and apparently she didn't have my other stuff. The flatmate also yelled " you will never get closure from her!"

It was awful. Since then I have made no contact with her and removed her from LinkedIn. She already deleted me off Facebook but I blocked her so she can't even see my profile photo.

She wanted me out of her life. So her wish is granted.

But when I hear that I've been made out to be a crazy harasser when she is the one who deliberately ignored me- it's infuriating.

[Diana82]

I'm really just trying to gauge what others would have done in my shoes... .  

If your partner had suddenly told you 3 years into the rship that her ex who was always  portrayed as frigid, cold and distant was then made out to be a predator who tried to rape her?

And what if your ex changed from portraying themselves as being undesirable and unattractive and degraded in the beginning - then later changing to tell you she had loads of admirers, stalkers and prople who always tried groping her in public?

And when you did ask her why things changed shed be super defensive.

How would you have addressed these inconsistencies?

I pushed them into the back of my mind and they festered.

So that day when my ex snapped at me I thought of all her weird inconsistencies  and the way she got so weirdly defensive - and it all came out as one big attack on her. I got angry with her for the first time really and told her off

But I am wondering how others would have handled this

[VeryConfusedNon]

"And what if your ex changed from portraying themselves as being undesirable and unattractive and degraded in the beginning - then later changing to tell you she had loads of admirers, stalkers and prople who always tried groping her in public?"

--> my ex was insecure, said no body hit on her, when she went back to school, said guys would hit on her, and it's not like she ignored, ... .  did I find it weird she was always around guys... .  the company of men... .  

"It was awful. Since then I have made no contact with her and removed her from LinkedIn. She already deleted me off Facebook but I blocked her so she can't even see my profile photo." --> did you notice she even removed from mutual friends?

The sudden coldness? Right here too, I could not believe how ice cold she got.

Was it difficult to get into a relationship with her in the first place? Did she bring up marriage/future very early into the relationship? Did you guys live together, or did she want to live together very early on?

If I can guarantee you anything, you may still be obsessed over this matter 3-4 months from now, but it will be a lot easier, and you won't get heart attack chest pangs or something similar to that, from the emotional pain

[Diana82]

No, we got on very well from the get go. She also idealised me and I lapped it up. Who doesn't like being idealised?

She did seem to attach herself very quickly to me and told me I was her true love after only dating for few months.

She also told me I meant the world to her and she was forever mine. Yet... I feel now that I was there to fill her void.

[Diana82]

So was anyone else made to feel like THEY were too suspicious or crazy for thinking their ex was deceptive or unstable?

Have you questioned yourself for being too untrusting?

I have. Even though my gut instincts told me my ex was unstable and perhaps exaggerating abuse. Even when dumping me she told me I am too suspicious and have issues and "need help".

It was so demeaning.  Yet it made me wonder and I have felt bad that I was even perhaps too hard on her :/

[Diana82]

Do you think telling a BPD that they're too inconsistent/ deceptive is the worst insult imagineable to them?

My ex claimed me telling her this "burnt her". And that I sit in the top list of people who have hurt her (bullies, the sexual assaulting ex etc).

It seems so extreme. But I always think... if someone is that defensive - they're guilty or hiding something

[Surnia]

Diana

what about your original question, sending a letter or not? You got many helpful answers here. What are your plans?

And Seeking balance asked you a very good question.

diana,

what is going on with you - how can we help you focus a bit more on your feelings so you can slow that hamster wheel down?

[Diana82]

Hi

I haven't decided yet... I am really conflicted.

I know my letter (email) will be ignored. She may even have blocked my emails who knows.

I have no idea if she is saying I abused/was a bully to her or such but I am certain it's a possibility. Her flatmate already told me I have been "harassing her for months and it's unacceptable" and a mutual friend heard I was apparently crazy. So she is definitely out there playing victim and still withholding my stuff while pretending I harassed her for no reason.

If im honest... I want to warn her. I want her to know that I have a full support network who know about her smearing antics and her false stories. I want her to know that I will not tolerate rubbish being said about me.

Word gets around so fast in the gay community here. My friend knows my ex's alleged stalker! And they both know that my ex is probably bipolar and have thought so for years.

I know her words are hogwash but I genuinely believed for 2.5 years that my ex had lead an abuse-filled life. I didn't think to ask why she never filed police reports though. She is a trained Lawyer so I doubt she would lie to police.

It's more she is capable of harming your credibility in a community.

For some reason I feel it will make me feel better to warn her I know about her and won't tolerate it. But then- I think maybe she could use my email as a means of further harassment? Her sick head will twist it around and she'll show it to everyone and say "look! She's STILL harassing me!"

[Diana82]

I was so insulted when (while she was dumping me) she said she has to hide her cell phone in her handbag every day- because she doesn't know what's coming from me.

She said my texts (during the fight) are a "form of harassment".

I was like what! She was participating in the text argument and flicking back essay long responses.

This is what I asked earlier... My ex appears to be a huge drama queen. Is there HPD mixed in with BPD?

Misinterpreting words was one thing. But calling our argument harassment was just so extreme.

Can someone explain to me why they have a heightened sense of abuse? Why they feel so easily threatened? My ex was bullied throughout childhood and had safety issues. Could this be the reason?

[seeking balance]

What are you conflicted about? 

Do you feel unfairly treated maybe?

[Diana82]

Conflicted over sending my ex an email asking her to quit smearing me.

[id-crisis]

Anyone else never receive their things back and were met with hostility?  

I could tell you an insane story about what I've been through in trying to recover some of my belongings - totally insane and I am the one who ended up with an official warning from Domestic abuse Organisation in the UK ... .  whille I HAD BEEN FORCED TO FLEE MY HOME AND MOVE TO A REFUGE FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE! With just two carrier bags of my clothes and miles away from my family

Ugh, I cannot go through the tedious retelling but you wouldn't believe it. I still cannot believe it and it really galls me the way they can twist things and manipulate others - even professionals in the field of abuse!    :'(

I also got a bit sick of people telling me "it's just stuff" and that the important thing is that he is out of my life now blah blah ... .  I don't care about ALL of my stuff but my entire past is there ... .  all the photograph's of my children (i have never owned a digital camera) and the only item I own that my recently deceased father gave me, it's just a bedspread but it's an antique and very beautiful- and it relates back to my own childhood, I was eight years old and with my father when he purchased this particular item and it is very special to me. Was it too much to expect him to return these items?  Of course it was. He's such a cruel, selfish, child.

Anyway, I've still been letting it bother me and know full well he has not disposed of these items and am seriously contemplating a trip to his town and asking the police to accompany me to pick it up. I've heard this has been successful for some of the other women in the refuge. The trick is, to spring it on them and get the police to telephone them when you KNOW they will be at home to arrange to pick the things up in an hour or so.

Property is such a tricky area of the law but it has to be worth having a word with your local constable, explain the situation etc. After all, it is your property and she is effectively holding it hostage which is basically theft, of sorts.

I'm sorry you've had to endure the smear campaign, it's one of the things that hurt, and continues to hurt me most. It's just so unjust and unnecessary and painful!

Best of luck whatever you decide to do

[id-crisis]

Oh, and turning up on her doorstep with two policemen flanking you - will really piss her off and make some people think twice and also make her realise (probably not actually!) that her bad-mouthing and smearing campaign, means nothing out there in the bigger, wider world  

If you're worried the police will not take you seriously, be sure to tell them that all attempts in the past to recover your property has ended in abuse, and that you fear intimidation and or violence from her/flatmate if you were to go round to pick it up by yourself and that they have been very intimidating and unreasonable when you have tried to come to some sort of agreement.

[myself]

Conflicted over sending my ex an email asking her to quit smearing me.

It wouldn't do any good to send it. She may have blocked you, like you said, or may just use it as something more to use against you. If she says you're harrassing her, and you send her something, guess what she's going to say you're doing. There's nothing you can do about what she may or may not be telling other people. My ex has recently been telling people lies about me, online and in 'real life'. I didn't respond to it, even when my ex wrote the same lies to me. That's just her reality. I know what the truth is. The people who know me know I wouldn't do the things she's saying I've done, and the ones who don't really know have not exactly been trying to find out what my side of it may be. It's a temporary commotion of undue sympathy. The stuff inside of her needs to be expressed, and the stuff inside of her is painful so it comes out in painful ways. I'm sorry you're having to experience that. You sound worked up and it would be good to calm down, take some breaths, don't let this get to you so much. You know who you are, and how you were with her. How you're still being with her. She's projecting what she doesn't want to face onto you and whoever else will be projected on (sometimes we don't even realise this happens, do we?), and it's really nothing to do with you. She feels bad about herself so she's trying to make you look and feel bad instead so she doesn't have to. It hurts, as I said I'm right there with you, but we need to not take this on because we like calm much better and our ex's are not there with us in that on any level. Peace.

[Diana82]

id-crisis> quite frankly, I am scared now to even bother asking about the rest of my stuff  ever again.

I actually think my ex has lost the rest of my stuff or just doesn't have it.

Because while I think she is nuts and has given me silent treatment the entire time- she did drop off my Mother's books.  I don't think she is THAT cruel to withold my jewellery etc. I think if she had it- she may have dumped it on my sidewalk too by now.

When I spoke to the flat mate on the phone he was adamant that "she didn't have the other stuff".

But he would not let me talk to her. I wanted to explain to her over the phone exactly what I was missing and where I think I may have left it. And he then started banging on at me and telling me my behaviour is "unacceptable" and she wants me "out of her life" etc.

I tried to tell him HER behaviour is unacceptable- but he wouldn't listen. And he kept harpering on and saying that "YOU WILL NEVER GET CLOSURE FROM HER. MOVE ON!"

So I have to accept that I will never see the other stuff for whatever reason and that she wants me out of her life and to never be contacted again.

It's incredibly dramatic. I have never experienced this kind of treatment. It's been very hard to fathom this is the same woman who was so kind and loving and "normal" to me for 3 years. And how she has just turned on me after an argument.

[Diana82]

So, does anyone have any insights into BPD's heightened sense of abuse and harassment?

I feel I need to understand it more.

My ex was hypersensitive. She'd misinterpret my words as being rejecting or critical. She had a huge abusive past... every woman she dated had abused her in some way- either tried to rape her, was an emotional bully or tried to grope her in public places and stalk her.

She even told me a guy had slipped a date rape drug in her drink once and she ended up passed out.

And then she told me about her unhappy childhood- she'd been at one school and endured bullying and then moved schools but was still bullied. And her parents and teachers did nothing ... apparently. Even this didn't add up... .  her parents were the most caring and loving parents next to mine. They treated their daughter like a princess and she was always surrounded by loving family and friends. I couldn't imagine that they would have done "nothing" to help her.

And now... .  as per my notes... .  I am seen as being a harassing person. She was with me for 3 years and I know she knows I am not crazy. Yet... our text fight was a form of harassment- to her. Me trying to apologise to her was seen as harassing- and she just HAS to change her number.

And me trying to retrieve my stuff was met with hostility and I was made to feel like a stalker.

Do BPDs genuinely feel threatened 24/7?  Do they feel people are all out to get them?

Or is childhood trauma (bullying) to blame in creating paranoid adults?

[seeking balance]

So, does anyone have any insights into BPD's heightened sense of abuse and harassment?

I feel I need to understand it more.

My ex was hypersensitive. She'd misinterpret my words as being rejecting or critical. She had a huge abusive past... every woman she dated had abused her in some way- either tried to rape her, was an emotional bully or tried to grope her in public places and stalk her.

She even told me a guy had slipped a date rape drug in her drink once and she ended up passed out.

And then she told me about her unhappy childhood- she'd been at one school and endured bullying and then moved schools but was still bullied. And her parents and teachers did nothing ... apparently. Even this didn't add up... .  her parents were the most caring and loving parents next to mine. They treated their daughter like a princess and she was always surrounded by loving family and friends. I couldn't imagine that they would have done "nothing" to help her.

And now... .  as per my notes... .  I am seen as being a harassing person. She was with me for 3 years and I know she knows I am not crazy. Yet... our text fight was a form of harassment- to her. Me trying to apologise to her was seen as harassing- and she just HAS to change her number.

And me trying to retrieve my stuff was met with hostility and I was made to feel like a stalker.

Do BPDs genuinely feel threatened 24/7?  Do they feel people are all out to get them?

Or is childhood trauma (bullying) to blame in creating paranoid adults?

since you have some many questions different from your original topic, perhaps it is time to start new threads with some of these questions.

additionally, there is a WEALTH of information on all of these topics in the articles, dbt research and member threads such as 2010.  Have you read the lessons on BPD behaviors?

[Hope 4 a better day]

This has been a good thread. I understand your thoughts and feelings the truth is nothing about this behavior makes any sense and from my experience we spend our time trying to figuring out their behavior and at the end of the day we will never figure out this craziness. It's better to figure out our part as to why we got involved in this in the first place . I went through a similar situation however in my case all of her (BPDs) things were in my home and she would not cooperate in retrieving them and everything I did to try to assist her she would continue to put me down and tell others all sorts of distorted things about me. What I ended up doing as she was living several hundred miles away was to Pack all her stuff and it took me a week, Rent a storage unit pay 2.5 months rent notified her by certified mail with the key and let it go. She continued to complain and create more problems for me however the more I avoided her the less she bothered me It was very difficult for me as to this day I still have feelings for her. In the end my understanding is that one of my former friends assisted her in moving her things back to where she is. A 16 year friendship that she destroyed through my former friends wife

   In closing I would only recommend one thing, LET IT GO! and move on and start taking care of yourself as us nons have our own work to do on ourselves. The sooner you let it go the sooner you will get your life back. 

[Diana82]

Hope for a better day>

Re getting into this in the first place...

I believed all my ex's stories. I believed she had a life of pain, harassment and abuse. She showed such conviction that I had no reason to believe it was exaggerated/false.

It was only after awhile that I realised things didn't really add up.

She seemed to misinterpret my words. She was extremely sensitive she had a long unforgiving memory too.

And every woman she had been romantically involved with had happened to be a stalker or abusive. It just seemed like at the end-she was a professional victim and played on my rescuing tendencies.

And when I questioned her about being too inconsistent... I got dumped.

And now I am the harasser

[Diana82]

Sometimes I feel like writing to her friends or family and telling them she has serious issues.

I feel like telling them she lied to me about being stalked, raped etc and that's why I was so suspicious. I have this overwhelming desire to " out" her as a messed up liar.

[Newton]

Diana... .  I felt exactly the same way... .  and wanted to do the same thing... .  my word I had enough info to ruin her!... .  

So what's your feeling that is motivating this desire to expose her... .  ?

[ExTreme]

It seems like the desire to "expose" your smearing-ex's campaigns are impassioned based on a confident KNOWING of the smearage that's happening. Where are you getting evidence of this? Are you hearing from reliable sources? Are you reading actual information written my your ex.? How much of this is hearsay?

I KNOW my ex is erroneously envisioning smears b/c he has written so. He is suffering for naught. It makes me sure of HIS projection onto me, though. I can see clearly now the rain is gone.

[elemental]

Diana, is it possible to give yourself a break on this stuff?

Take a step back?

Over on the staying board, I am learning about detachment. I may have one of the worst experiences anyone here has had with BPD.

Detaching is really helping me.

I love my BPD guy, but I cannot re-engage with him until I have detached from him enough that I don't get sucked in again.

If you are able to detach, it will help you to regulate your strong feelings. From what I can see everything you write is all about staying stuck in with her, rather than moving back enough to clear your head.

SHE IS NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED.

All you are going to do is instigate drama and more upset.

If you want to stay engaged with her by causing upset, then ok. If you want to move back enough to get your own self BACK rather than get back at her, then it's a really good direction to go. Set her aside, look for healing, later, if need be, when you are both calmer, possibly this can be addressed with her in a way that helps with healing the damage between you.

[Seb]

Diana, we could have dated the same girl, trust me. She was everything you said your ex was... .  hyperHYPERsensitive, misinterpreted everything I said (once I said to wait til her phone died and she misinterpreted it as me saying that when she died! Cue more hysterical crying, "You want me to die!" I was honestly, wth? ), she gaslit me, triangulated constantly, cried at the drop of a hat... .  she was the anithesis of everything she presented herself to be when she was seducing me.

I get the injustice of it all. I have no idea what my ex says of me. I do know that she gathered her two closest friends and got them to join in on the badmouthing of me. To be honest, I don't care, they're her friends, they can think what they like. Plus, the two of them weren't very nice people. I think that's another one of my 'things' that I'd overlooked. I'm always the first person to say to look at their friends, that will tell you a lot about them - I didn't this time, big mistake. She had no real friends - I should have thought something wasn't right when I noticed that. Anyway, my point is, they're her friends and family so I don't care what she says about me.  I just carry on regardless, and let people meet me. Then they'll see the type of person I am. I'm not in the business of badmouthing people, so I let people make up their own mind, as I make up my own.

However much you feel like writing to her friends and family... .  You cannot write to them and tell them what you think of her. That is harassment, Diana. I'm sorry to be blunt, and I know how much we want our justice and to defend ourselves... .  but if you go ahead with this then you will only give her more ammunition to call you a stalker and harassing her. You can't do it. Please think about it for a second.

As BPDspell wrote the other day, she is gone and she's showing you who she is through her behaviour. This isn't personal, it's a pattern that will repeat itself. She feels persecuted, she lives in fear and she is trying to cope. You doing this will make her feel even more persecuted.

I guess it's just going to take you more time, and you will when you're ready, but you need to take the focus off her and put it on you for a second. No, you're not the terrible person she's made you feel, and you did the best you could.  Unfortunately, she is disordered in her emotions and cannot sustain a mutually reciprocal adult relationship.  If you want to start feeling better, and I'm sure you do, you have to stop obsessing over her and start getting healthy.  She and you, you weren't healthy. You need to build yourself up so that you never have another hellish experience like this again. When you are healthy, you will spot the red flags in the beginning and get out. We all need to do the work here.  Why we thought so little of ourselves that we were prepared to be a partner to someone who is empty, full of pain, and has no real love to give us... .  that's a tough question to ask, but a vital one. I know I don't want that type of 'love' forever. I want a partner who truly loves me, not just the idea of me.

[OutsidetheHermitWalls]

Diana82,

since my ex-BPD was bisexual I am male; but she did smear her ex-GF's.  This is a 33 year old woman who has compiled this list.  She is 37 this year.  But her maturity level has not evolved whatsoever.  She made a list once how both are alike; which I found so petty and utterly bizarre:

It stated neither  Jxxxxx or Mxxx,


Like anyone that I associate with, past or present friends

Both think they know what is best for me

Neither Inititiate Sex

Both have Gas or use as an excuse not to have sex

Both would rather play video games that do things with me

Neither Clean or do laundry  (She was very OCD about laundry; and obsessed with her new vacumn cleaner: however any other household needs she would defer to me even though she was not even working)

Both claim they never eat sweets until they met me, and now eat them all the time  (probably related to her binging)

Both Drive a VW

Neither like the decisions I make, but complain I don't make decisions to fit theirs

Both would make me investigage the bumps in the night (I guess nightmares)

Both get scared at horror movies (I did too)

Act like Children Alot (this coming from a BPD)

Like to Shop A lot  (This BPD found shopping very overwhelming; personally I do too but I can shop for others; my BPD rarely bought me any presents or cards (i.e. no Valentines day card, no nothing; no birthday present unless I told her what to buy)

Both want to dress me different (I was guilty of that too; she was so beautiful I bought her dresses that looked great on her; I am sure I would be on this list now)

Both say they are OK doing things on their own but when it comes down to it wont unless I do it  ( I really cannot imagine her doing anything; but also probably a projection)

Both like me me to cook dinnner or make them lunch but won't return the favor (I guess I got the BPD who did not do anything but take, but I imagine this is a projection)

Both pretend to be Bad-Ass - But are really Chicken ~ (A Projection for sure; She had days where she dressed pardon the expression more "butch"; despite the fact that she looks and acts pretty feminine.  I am an emotional male, meaning by all appearances I am masculine, but if you get to know me I am more emotional that you might expect)  anyways my BPD when she left was the biggest coward.  Just left no communication, text only, filed divorce in two weeks, smear campaign equating to the most extreme emotional abuse you can imagine, all supported by some attorney that I am sure saw the adorable damsel in distress that he needed to protect from the 'evil' possessive, verabally abusive, controlling ex-husband.  I am guility of being a little controlling when she first left as I was in shock that someone would marry me spend six weeks executing bizarre underning behavior (BPD) and then leave and blame me for everything.  I was in shock.  But after two weeks I backed off and left her alone; the more I left her alone the more devious she became.  Thank god NC for 3 months; I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Niether like music that I do (she accussed me on this at the end also; she would play a song and then attack me saying I don't like her music.  Which was not even true.  When I was white she liked Florence and the Machine and Noah and the Whale when I was black she liked Marilyn Manson)

Both whine (why wouldn't you when the person you are with ignores you and stonewalls you all the time)

Both take my inventory and ignore their own (projection she has never accepted any responsibilitty for anything in our relationship)

Niether are comfortable being gay (Hello did she not date me for a year and marry me)

Both can dish it out but niether can take it (pot calling the kettle black)

Have the tendency to be arrogant, cockey, self-centered (her her her)

They are better than eveyone else.  (not sure about this one only that she is one of the most critical people I have even met)

Both act like a btch to my friends or in situations to avoid others (She is an expert at avoidance)

Neither are good at compromise (you should have seen my divorce settlement)

Both used to kiss me with passion and for both it tapers to a peck (it's called fear)

Both drive me to lock myself in the bathroom crying (I did too)

Both are having an affair with the internet (not sure what this means)

Both have baby fever (we had two miscarriages I think the fever was hers; the trajedy was mine)

Both expect me to propose (she told me often marry me, marry me)

Neither know how to save money (that was hard when I paid for everything and what she paid for while we were together she insisted on having back when we were divorcing; thanks to the laws in my state she got that money back and more.)

So there you have it.  I did not see this until after she left.  She did smear a guy she dated three times prior to us reconnecting.  She tried to convinced me he was stalking her and was a danger.  The 2 yr male relationship she did not smear but she threw our relationship in his face often.  She would recevie texts from him stating "Hi how are you" and she would ask me, yes ask me what to reply.  I would say text good how are you (why I did not see this flag, I can't tell you why); she would then remark she found it odd that he would never text that he loved her or expressed emotion.  At the time my intuition was saying "kind of odd"; but did I say anything absolutely not.  Why?  Hmm.  Oh because I thought I would be different.  Boy I was so right it would be different for me it would be even worse.

[Diana82]

Thanks Seb and Blake...

Yes I think sending her parents a note is a really bad idea. It was a fleeting idea

I think my biggest fear is that I know my ex has a huge supportive family here. She knows many people both in and out of the gay community.

Nobody knows my ex is disordered ( unless her family do) and it seems they all believe she is a poor victim.

What if she actually tells people I abused her? Or tried to rape her?

her frigid ex was apparently also a sexual predator/rapist.

Now I had a high sex drive with her... what could she say about me? That I assaulted her too?

I shiver...

I sometimes think that one day I will hear from her future ex or an ex friend asking if I tried to rape her or harass her. Then what?

[Surnia]

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