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Author Topic: Do they ever show remorse or apologize for cheating?  (Read 2952 times)
Vinnie
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« on: February 07, 2013, 10:23:04 PM »

Since finding out about BPD and discovering this Board, I have found myself surprised about how many of you have been cheated on, and yet took your husband/wife or  boy/girlfriend back. 

Those of you whose SO had emotional affairs or full-on physical, do they ever apologize or seek forgiveness?  Do they feel remorse for violating their own standards?  Or, God forbid, for causing you pain?
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GustheDog
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 10:30:55 PM »

My ex had what I'd describe as an emotional affair.  She triangulated me with a male co-worker during our final few months together.  I discovered that many times when my calls were ignored they were hanging out together - and probably talking ___ about me, too.

Maybe there was sexual infidelity as well - with this guy and/or others.  At this point, anything's possible.

And, no, she has not displayed one iota of remorse for anything.  But there's no question in my mind that, at least intermittently, she knows what she does/has done is wrong.  I pointed out several of her double standards near the end.  She couldn't argue with me on the merits - she had nothing to say.  So she'd just rage and insult me instead.
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Vatz
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 10:40:32 PM »

Mine showed little actual remorse.

She abused me verbally during those months she was having an affair. I saw the texts between her and the other guy... .  I never felt so humiliated and ugly in my life. All that abuse, while turning around and giving this other guy the royal treatment. I can't speak for everyone, but seeing something like that will do some serious damage to self-esteem.

When I told her how much it hurt me, she apologized but then gave all these reasons as to why it happened. I told her that those aren't very valid reasons because if anything they were good reasons to stay away from that person.

Anyway, no. No, she felt no remorse for what she did. I know because she did it more than once.

The pain will subside in time, and I might work through the issues; but I may not ever fully trust another human being.
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PrettyPlease
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 10:57:53 PM »

Do they feel remorse for violating their own standards?

 I pointed out several of her double standards near the end.

I had great trouble accepting the double standards of my first upwBPD, and as I remember through the three upwBPD I've been involved with it's clear that none of them were capable of maintaining the same standard for both parties in the r/s.

They could apply a standard to me, but wouldn't notice (apparently) if they transgressed it themselves. Pointing out that they had would dysregulate them. (Perhaps they dysregulated also if they were the ones to notice that they had transgressed it, which would effectively prevent them from noticing.)

I've seen others refer to this. Maybe this is a core feature of BPD.

In my experience it seems they can learn that a standard exists -- intellectually perceive the pattern -- but when to apply it to someone else's behaviour, or their own, seems skewed by the disorder.


PP

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daintrovert13
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 11:21:44 PM »

Since finding out about BPD and discovering this Board, I have found myself surprised about how many of you have been cheated on, and yet took your husband/wife or  boy/girlfriend back. 

Those of you whose SO had emotional affairs or full-on physical, do they ever apologize or seek forgiveness?  Do they feel remorse for violating their own standards?  Or, God forbid, for causing you pain?

If getting my name tatted is considered an apology then Yes.

If hurting her self physically is considered remorse then Yes.

If those aren't considered remorse or apologies then No.
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Tausk
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 01:28:59 AM »

peoplewith BPD do not feel remorse. they do not feel guilt, do not know how to apologize, and do not know how to take responsibility for their actions.

they feel shame which is different than guilt.   Shame is how one feels about oneself. Guilt is how one feels about one's actions.  without guilt there can never be change.   PwBPD don't have the emotional maturity to feel guilt so all they can do is suppress, not take responsibility, and live in denial and delusion.  remember borderline means borderline psychotic borderline neurotic and borderline delusional.

so the question remains for me is ... .  why did I become so attached to a person who has no ability for remorse or guilt or accountability?
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stoic83
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 01:57:15 AM »

If getting my name tatted is considered an apology then Yes.

If hurting her self physically is considered remorse then Yes.

If those aren't considered remorse or apologies then No.

Haha... .  she always talked about getting my name tatted too. I think she thought it would prevent her from infidelity... .  like being on the same cell phone account, etc... .  she wanted to be faithful, just couldn't control herself... .  I'm surprised she didn't get a chastity belt... .  she grew out her pubic hair too. probably didn't work... .  i will never know if she managed to stay faithful to me during this last relationship... .  the only thing I do know is I have no STDs, and that's the only thing i need to know... .  because other dudes, chicks or whoever can totally have her! Also people hit on her all the time, because she's one of those women that almost everybody is attracted to... .  more or less.

I guess I kind of feel to her... .  i mean to have a mental illness and all these people around you all the time trying to get you to come home with them... .  gotta be confusing and trauma inducing.

Oh well... I am going to get a normal girlfriend next time! That's her problem. I didn't cause it, and I can't fix it!
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Benny
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 02:44:50 AM »

In short the answer is no and if they ever do it is not genuine but simply a ploy to rope you back into the BPD dance.
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nedm

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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 04:31:39 AM »

Funny you mention the tattoo thing my ex had quite a few tatto's and it suited her very attractive, she had the whole suicide girl look. Last valentines day she had my name tatto'd on her calf and then not long after raged because my conventional valentine of card, meal etc wasn't enough to show my commitment!

With regard to the remorse thing i discovered she had been messaging her ex not long after we had a baby and two ex's the same day we finally split. I only discovered all this a few days after the split (2 days prior she'd loved me and wanted to run away and get married in secret!) as I'd always trusted her although soemthing was never quite right!

When i tried to explain how bad this all was and how it shattered my world that she'd gone stright back to her supposedly evil controlling ex's her excuse was 'well it doesn't matter now anyway and it was all me in the wrong for looking at her facebook!' She couldn't comprehend what she'd done and certainly ahd no remorse! more anger because she'd been caught!

It's been about a month now with regular contact for my child and it kills me everytime i have to see her especially as living in a small town I constantly hear about what she's been up to and see things about her from our shared friends on Facebook!
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almost789
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 05:24:17 AM »

If he did feel remorse, i wouldnt know  he was too busy denying. Shame is more what they feel. Not guilt. An apology would mean taking responsibility.
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Leaf
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 05:59:48 AM »

her excuse was 'well it doesn't matter now anyway and it was all me in the wrong for looking at her facebook!' She couldn't comprehend what she'd done and certainly ahd no remorse! more anger because she'd been caught!

My BPDxbf shifted the blame like that. He never apologized for cheating. I found out by looking at his email and he said looking at his email was just as bad. Also he later turned things around by saying he had ended it with those women, which was a big sacrifice, and I had never made such a sacrifice for our relationship.
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cal644
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 06:18:25 AM »

The closest thing I ever got to an appology was when she said "what type of person would do this to her family", she also said she wished she could just melt into the ground and disappear (still not an appology but a self centered comment) .She did also say sorry once (but her actions spoke louder than her words when she continued)... .  So was it truly an appology (NO!)... but all the blame from her EA was shifted on me ... .  she can never take the guilt on herself ... .  now she is suffering and her life will probably be a downword spiral after throwing away true love ... .  no guy will ever be able to give her the love and attention that I gave for the past 19 years. 
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Vatz
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 06:37:12 AM »

no guy will ever be able to give her the love and attention that I gave for the past 19 years. 

Even if she does find love like that, she'll just squander it and ruin yet another relationship. There's a sucker born every minute.

19 years is a long time, too long to be taken for granted. Wishing you the best.
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Confusedandhurt
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2013, 06:44:43 AM »

My uBPDexgf apologized many times for her discretions, but as SP points out, she actions never seemed to match her words.  There was no obvious guilt for her behavior, only apologies.  Her apologies seemed to simply be a way of getting me off her back.  For example, since she dumped me, she has told me several times on the phone that she hopes to be friends one day.  Each time, I have said no, that my friends have never treated me the same way she did.  The last time we spoke, this came up again with my giving the same response.  She then get quite agitated and repeatedly said, "I'm sorry for cheating on you, I'm sorry for the way I treated you, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry!"  It's just like an emotional 3 year old trying to get out of trouble without recognizing the real consequences of their actions and demonstrating an ability to behave differently.  Shame without guilt.  As a matter of fact, she often told me how ashamed she felt, but I never understood the full context of that statement until recently.

It's so discouraging seeing this first hand.  She's beautiful, smart, has a graduate degree in engineering, and has lots of friends.  As much as I'm learning about this disorder, I realize how little I know about her thoughts and actions.
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jdcthunder14
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2013, 07:21:00 AM »

her excuse was 'well it doesn't matter now anyway and it was all me in the wrong for looking at her facebook!' She couldn't comprehend what she'd done and certainly ahd no remorse! more anger because she'd been caught!

My BPDxbf shifted the blame like that. He never apologized for cheating. I found out by looking at his email and he said looking at his email was just as bad. Also he later turned things around by saying he had ended it with those women, which was a big sacrifice, and I had never made such a sacrifice for our relationship.

Same thing with me… she was more mad about catching her than anything else. But even though she was caught red handed she still denied it. Attempted to make the argument about me checking her email instead of what she was doing (test driving my replacement.) That is when it really hit me that I really didn’t know this woman at all. Her ability to lie to me, so easily, no remorse, no emotion, it was like we were talking about the weather. Mine has some diagnosed psych. issues so I always knew she was a bit “off” but this level of illness was quite shocking.

I was a one and done guy… we didn’t recycle and never will. All communication after our breakup was confrontational by me, I wanted answers. Of course I never got them, just denial and blame on me.

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asunder

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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 08:46:01 AM »

Mine cheated on me 10 years ago, got caught, and it caused us to break up.  She was very remorseful and apologetic.  I believe it was true remorse.  This time around, 0 remorse.  Totally my fault, no apology, no nothing.  As a matter of fact, instead of feeling bad she has been absolutely rotten towards me and my family, for HER mistakes.  Just infuriating.

Sometimes I wonder about this notion of 'immature emotions' in BPD.  My 3yr old daughter, if she makes a mistake, feels terrible.  My daughter is not emotionally mature, but it is natural for people to have a conscience.

I tend to think blame shifting, lack of accountability, and especially lack of empathy and remorse for hurting others is more of a spiritual malady than a question of immaturity.  The bible calls this 'seared conscience'.
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Tausk
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 09:11:54 AM »

"I'm sorry for cheating on you, I'm sorry for the way I treated you, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry!"  It's just like an emotional 3 year old trying to get out of trouble without recognizing the real consequences of their actions and demonstrating an ability to behave differently.  Shame without guilt.  As a matter of fact, she often told me how ashamed she felt, but I never understood the full context of that statement until recently.

It's so discouraging seeing this first hand.  She's beautiful, smart, has a graduate degree in engineering, and has lots of friends.  As much as I'm learning about this disorder, I realize how little I know about her thoughts and actions.

And as Confused said above, I never really knew the depths of our miscommunication and misunderstanding.  We were simply not living in the same world.  

The inability to apologtize, it's such a common theme here and one of the many complexities.  This inability for remorse/guilt coupled with a lack of free-will when it comes to decision making, especially in the area of being faithful, whether physically or emotionally, just baffled me.  Because when in the idolization stage, she was mine forever and we both honestly believed it.  

But, when my ex wBPD felt insecure, she had to find other attachments or re-engage with her exes.  She didn't really have a choice in that she wasn't really conscious of her actions.  After I learned about BPD, I saw her split under pressure and start to pursue the guy that I think she's with now.  She actually had him help her move stuff from the house.   I saw it and didn't take it personally, but she never ever could take responsibility.  She was in survival mode.

If a person has no free-will in actions, especially actions that they know are morally wrong,  and if they can not process the shame through guilt, remorse, making amends and changing, all they are left with is ever deepening shame.

That shame has to be dealt with, usually through repression, denial, delusion,... .  , or drugs, booze, cutting and maybe suicide.  And that's why they can't get better.  That is why therapy doesn't work.  That's why when some do get enough therapy, or hit a deep enough bottom, to actually comprehend their behavior they committ suicide.  It's too painful to process a lifetime of horrible actions all at once and while still being so limited.   They just don't have the adult capacity to engage in the process of taking responsibility for one's transgression.  

It's not that they won't apologize,... .  it's that the CAN'T.

My favorite apology from her was, "I'm sorry that I don't meet your standards."  Which puts it back on me. It's my standards for faithfulness and honesty that were the problems  

My ex and I took lessons on how to apologize for a year. Honestly, we did through counseling, Marshall Rosenburg, DBT,... .  And at times for the moment, when I pointed out a transgression she would be able to take responsibilty at the time, if she was secure enough and wanted us to be together. But when she painted me black, she would simply revert to survival bahavior and be delusional or deny any of the responsibility.

It's a horrible existence.  They deserve our pity.  Perhaps not our forgiveness, because they have never asked for forgiveness, which requires taking responsibility.  But they do deserve our pity and compassion just like a bag lady walking the streets and yelling at everyone.  If you really look at the homeless, who seem to be more functional (not paranoid schizophrenia) and look at their emotional state, when you really really look, you'll see a very similar soul and spirit as our exes.  

A soul where the world is simply one giant terrifying nightmare for someone without the capacity to process any of the pain, shame or terror.  

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asher2
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2013, 09:19:11 AM »

When I found out that my ex had cheated on me (found this out a couple days after we broke up), I sent her a barrage of texts messages to which she apprently didn't get until the next morning when she woke up. Of course, she was in bed with my replacement in a different city, but she apparently immediately left his place and showed up at my door (I had already changed the locks by then, so she couldn't get in). She sent me a text saying she was at my place and I guess you could assume that she was there to apologize. Who knows why she was there.

The next day, I received under the door to my place, a letter mostly apologizing for what she had done and telling me how much she loved me. She repeatedly text me after she put the letter under my door asking if I had read it and finally I responded that she could come back to my place and we could talk. She came over and cried for almost four hours straight. She told me she loved me so much, the guy she was with doesn't mean anything to her and that she was sorry for what she had done. Sounds very remorseful right?

I woke up the next morning (she didn't spend the night) and had this horrible feeling in my stomach. I knew I had given her all power back by speaking to her and having her come to my place. I asked her that morning if she was still going to continue to see the guy she had lined up to replace me and I couldn't get a straight answer from her. When I asked that question, I'd only get back "I love you, not him." I honestly felt like vomiting that day. I couldn't believe this girl was playing with my heart so carelessly... .  it almost made me physically sick.

This day was the last day I ever spoke to her and one of the last things I said to her (over and over) is "You aren't sorry, you are sorry you got caught. You feel sorry for yourself, not me." Looking back, I don't think I could have been more right. As a previous poster said, they feel shame about who they are, not guilt. I truly believe her getting "caught" by me only added to the immense shame she was already feeling about herself. The letter, the tears, the "I love yous" were about her, not me.

Looking back, the way everything played out is sad. And it's scary. It's scary I gave myself so honestly and trustingly to someone didn't do the same back. The power of mental illiness is something I am still continuing to get my head around, but I am understanding it more and more everyday. It took me such a long time to not take her actions personally. It is coming to this understanding that I have finally been able to start to move forward.
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2013, 09:32:08 AM »

Wow. So spot on and so many good points!

Mine too never apologized to me but sent e-mails to online friends telling them how bad she feels that I am hurting and how hard it was  on me that we are not together (after triangulation (read definition) and physical infidelity)  yada yada... .  I will echo that what many of you said resonated with me deeply. I think its very true that they are desperately sick and its ALL about them. Even the remorse "if" they ever show it. Its not genuine. It about them . Always was and always will be.

I try my best to view mine as a rebellious horny teenager. She is playing the part at least and no amount of consequences or threats made her stop or reconsider. It was just simply somehow my fault. I was the perpetual bad guy for violating her privacy by snooping in her e-mail and yet her being in bed with another guy was something that I was to accept. Because we were no longer 'together'  (I was sleeping on the couch while she 'figured' things out)

And I do truly pity her. I am angry at times but deep inside, I would hate to live my life with that type of mindset and Sin following me. i am not deeply religious but I know I am accountable for my life and can not imagine standing before my Creator and having to answer for the things she has done.
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trouble11
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2013, 09:45:40 AM »

I too got a thousand  "I'm sorry"s  but I know they came when he was feeling bad about himself.  He used to tell me he felt guilty about things.  Seems like having only felt shame their whole lives they wouldn't know what guilt feels like and clearly mislabel the shame.

Last thing I got from him was " I love you and I always will ... .  it was my failures that ruined everything. I wish you only the best."  

His "failures" were lying and cheating and leaving here to recycle an exgf.  He'll never say he lied or cheated, only that he wishes he had handled thing differently.
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cal644
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2013, 10:04:44 AM »

I posted a little earlier but also thought I might add this... .  Two days after I found out about my ex's emotional affair we went on a bike ride... .  she told me at first it was someone she meet at college classes (which was the first of many lies) - so we were riding by the college and I told her to go first (I got teary eyed) When she saw that she chewed me out (mind you this is two days after I found out and we had been married 19 yrs) - she told me quit it - what are you sad about - I told you it's nothing - so just drop it and let it go... .  yea lot of remorse - Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) - again it was all about her her her - who cares about my feelings!

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cal644
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 10:06:28 AM »

I also got chewed out for going to our pastor the night I found out - hmmm - maybe instead of going to a spiritual person who has some training in this I should have just posted it all on facebook!
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SarahinMA
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 10:47:45 AM »

I too got a thousand  "I'm sorry"s  but I know they came when he was feeling bad about himself.  He used to tell me he felt guilty about things.  Seems like having only felt shame their whole lives they wouldn't know what guilt feels like and clearly mislabel the shame.

Last thing I got from him was " I love you and I always will ... .  it was my failures that ruined everything. I wish you only the best."  

His "failures" were lying and cheating and leaving here to recycle an exgf.  He'll never say he lied or cheated, only that he wishes he had handled thing differently.

I hate that!  I got the "I love you and always will love you" BS too.  This was after him admitting to me that he had always told me what I wanted to hear. 
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Vinnie
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2013, 12:46:24 PM »

I'm being triangulated now.

She started in with the other guy 3 months ago after getting her own place. I just found out a few weeks ago. She calmly maintains that spending time talking with him and hanging out with him is not wrong, so long as they remain platonic (which I don't believe.)

The thing I can't understand is that in the 20 years we've been together, she has always believed this kind of thing was very wrong and never justified.

I asked her to lunch yesterday so I could find out why she hadn't filed for divorce like she promised. (We have a 9 year old son together so we can't just wash our hands of each other.) She said, "What's the rush?" I told her that I don't want to be in limbo with the marriage. She made a reference about why couldn't I have hope for reconciliation down the line?  I was too stunned to know what to say. She wants her new man but wants me to waiting in the wings too.

She reiterated that he's "just a friend."  But her actions indicate she's infatutated with he friend - they hang out together every weekend (her cover is that her sister has him working on her 6000 sq. foot house and my wife just happens to be visiting her sister.)  And when I went to his work last week to talk with him, he looked me in the eyes and calmly said, "I'm not after your wife. We are just friends."  But as we were wrapping up our conversation, he assured me that he would be respectful to my son if he and my wife eventually got married. But, they're just friends now. The amazing mental gymnastics this must take.

At lunch yesterday I asked if I could give her some advice about him. I told her I hope she could find a good husband, but her friend wasn't the one. When she asked why, I said, "Because he doesn't think it's wrong to be married and have a 'friend' on the side. As soon as you hit bumps in your r/s, you are never going to be able to trust what kinds of secrets he is keeping from you."  She winced. Of course this was more a commentary on her than him.

So I emailed her last night that it was extremely disrespectful to me, her husband, to be continuing the other r/s while claiming nothing was wrong with it. I said cut it off with him, or let's file and get it over with. I'm pretty sure which door she's going to pick, but if she says she would like to try again with me, I not going to hold my breath waiting for an apology.  In 20 years I can count on one hand her sincere apologies for anything.
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2013, 12:51:52 PM »

I can count on one hand how many times my xBPDgf honestly apologized to me through out our 6.5 yrs together. Mostly all of them were when we were still in the honeymoon phase. Once that passed, it was rare if ever. I know that my ex struggled with wanting perfection. If it couldn't be this or that, or if she admitted that she did something wrong then she wasn't perfect. I guess when you are searching for perfection admitting to any wrong doing must feel extremely painful and shameful. All my ex did once the real nasty stuff started at the end of our relationship, was hide from me and disappear like a ghost. Maybe my ex-friend can bring out her perfection better than I ever could.
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2013, 01:31:43 PM »

My H has cheated on me twice. Once was actually cheating while we were dating and the 2nd happen since being married, while i was pregnant. It was more so an emotional one but hurt just as bad because it was a close friend. Till this day, I still don't think he has real remorse for it, especially the more recent one. Sure he said he was sorry, but his actions didn't. It more so seemed like I just needed to accept the fact that happened because 'he's charming, flirtatious, and women are drawn to him.' His words... .  not mine 
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2013, 01:45:48 PM »

Vinnie,


Mine said almost the exact same thing and as sick as it makes me to think abou tit now, I actually thought at the time she was serious about coming back when the 'nothing happened' and 'we are just firends' phase is over. Its a lie. You deserve better then to be strung along and be made to wait while she is out running and playing teenager. Glad you gave her an ultimatum. With mine I had to do the same and when I sat down with her, looked her straight in the eyes and said, 'I want a divorce' she balled like a baby and only because as she said 'How am I going to support myself' I thought really?

That was her first concern.  She is going to school full time and working part time.


She is taking psycholgy btw and wants to be a couselor
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cal644
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2013, 02:37:33 PM »

My soon to be ex was the same way - how am I going to support myself, where will I live, nothing to do with us and the past 19 years... .  It was all about her her her... .  it's funny too the only things she cared about was her jewelry - none of the personal household goods until a couple months latter - so she wouldn't have to go buy stuff... .  They are so self centered it makes me sick... .  the other day I had to get my daughter for practice because she was sick... .  she texted thanks and my reponce was anything for our daughter... .  her responce back was of course for her, you wouldn't do anything for me - you'll never change... .  it's funny she is so focused on herself that she took a comment like that and turns it around so it's all about her.
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bobbyvp

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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2013, 02:47:45 PM »

I've had NC with my exBPDgf for four months. After finally agreeing to move in with her, she quickly dumped me and started seeing one of my best friends. Last month I received an email from her where she said "I'm sorry how things turned out" but that I was always her closest and best friend and hoped that we could be friends again someday.  Is this an apology?  I'm sorry how they turned out like she had no choice but to betray me with one of my best friends, and they are still together apparently?  I guess she is feeling shame... .  or perhaps she didn't think I would cut her off completely, since I was so loving towards her before.  The psychology of this is maddening.

What's worse, is that I have to restrain myself from writing back how much I love her.  What do I do with all my feelings of love, anger and disappointment?

Btw, she is the classic BDF waif... .  
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GustheDog
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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 03:47:40 PM »

I've had NC with my exBPDgf for four months. After finally agreeing to move in with her, she quickly dumped me and started seeing one of my best friends. Last month I received an email from her where she said "I'm sorry how things turned out" but that I was always her closest and best friend and hoped that we could be friends again someday.  Is this an apology?  I'm sorry how they turned out like she had no choice but to betray me with one of my best friends, and they are still together apparently?  I guess she is feeling shame... .  or perhaps she didn't think I would cut her off completely, since I was so loving towards her before.  The psychology of this is maddening.

What's worse, is that I have to restrain myself from writing back how much I love her.  What do I do with all my feelings of love, anger and disappointment?

Btw, she is the classic BDF waif... .  

Bobby - I would recommend that you read the posts by the member, "2010".  It will help you understand much better how the disorder works and depersonalize your ex's behavior.

Because, the truth is, it's not personal.  It had to happen - really, success wasn't even a remote possibility.

What you can do is put up a wall to prevent this person from hurting you again.  Her apology is for her, not you.  Anything she does at any given moment in time is designed to make herself feel better - PERIOD.  It's never about you and it never was.  It is only about her.

Of course she wants to be "friends."  She needs to have a pool of potential hosts always hanging by a thread for when her current r/s fizzles - which, inevitably, it will.  She'll never be your friend in the sense of a person you can count on for anything - rather, "friendship" means someone she can get attention from if and when she needs it.  She wants to have you as a potential source of supply.

The bottom line is that the love you feel is for something that doesn't exist - an illusion.  Nothing will satisfy her more than for you to keep professing your love to her.  She will lap it up while sleeping with your friend and you will get nothing in return except frustration and more anger.

My advice is to cut her off now and direct your energy towards healing yourself, and eventually finding higher-quality people to associate with.
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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2013, 04:08:41 PM »

Amen. Taking all emotion out of the equation, Gus is 100% right... .  accepting the truth is liberating. Our exes simply do not have the capacity to care about anybody else other than themselves... .  they are an endless need... .  a black hole. There are not enough people in the world to satisfy her needs, if everyone gave in to her... .  she would suck up the whole planet... .  I would stop worrying about her and what she does all together. It is never going to make sense to you, since your are most likely not missing parts of your brain, at least the same parts as she is!

Compared with HC, BPD subjects had significant bilateral reductions in gray matter concentrations in ventral cingulate gyrus and several regions of the medial temporal lobe, including the hippocampus, amygdala, parahippocampal gyrus, and uncus. BPD women (and abused BPD women), but not BPD men, had significant reductions in medial temporal lobe, including the amygdala.
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bobbyvp

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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2013, 06:55:05 PM »

Thank you Gus and Stoic... .  that is very helpful and spot on.  You've given me more strength to continue my NC.  And that is so true about the bottomless need... .  there was no amount of reassuring that I loved her that convinced her in the past... .  and that email was all about her, not me.  I will check out 2010's posts... .  thank you thank you again.
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tigertiger

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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 05:11:58 AM »

My ex never admitted to cheating. She was very skilled at it.
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Tausk
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 12:27:11 PM »

My ex never admitted to cheating. She was very skilled at it.

Do you mean that she was skilled at "never admitting" or  skilled at "cheating"?

Because mine was skilled at both!   

Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)    Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)
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stoic83
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 02:31:41 PM »

My ex never admitted to cheating. She was very skilled at it.

Do you mean that she was skilled at "never admitting" or  skilled at "cheating"?

Because mine was skilled at both!   

Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)    Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)

Haha... .  adding some levity to a morbid discourse... .  before this relationship, I would never have even contemplated dating somebody who cheated on a partner... .  what kind of backwards ass way is that to behave? Cheaters are in most cases, selfish trouble makers... .  I would also steer clear of anybody who uses that word in their vocabulary.

I personally have never cheated on a partner and I don't use this word... .  I use words like honesty, loyalty, integrity. That is what I look for in a partner... .  if anyone even mentions that word... .  I am a cheater, or my ex-boyfriend is a cheater... .  I want nothing to do with them.

Hey that might be a rigid boundary... .  but what's worse being alone with someone who has honesty, loyalty, and integrity or being around someone who tries to walk all over my principles, and prove that her primitive way of behaving is better than that of a socially conscious empathic person who tries to ensure that they do right by all who cross their path... .  whether she tried to label you "good" or "bad" , "worthy" or "not worthy"... .  at the end of the day these were all of her projections, and you were merely experiencing projective identification... .  

No self-resepcting woman would ever treat their partner so poorly... .  women who cheat on their partners aren't even women. Women are supposed to be MORE comforting and nurturing and supportive and loyal. A woman who cheats is far worse than a man who cheats... .  what would you say to your close friend if he says about his girlfriend, "kathy is a btch, I met some girl in church and she took me in the car and gave me a blowjob... .  heh"... .  especially if kathy stuck it through with him through thick and thin... .  

You would probably stop being friends with that person because you would realize that he doesn't deserve kathy, nor you as a friend! Why give a woman any less accountability for being a disgusting pig.

I know I have been struggling with reverse sexism, because in my own family, women could do no wrong... no matter how selfish, overdramatic, manipulative, or scapegoating they were... .  I was always to blame because I was a boy and it was clearly wrong to be a boy.

Time to meet some new kind of women. Women who like boys and men and treating their friends and enemies with some sense of integrity... .  she has a strong core, and won't be swayed in her virtues.

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laidee

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« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2013, 09:55:53 AM »

I also got chewed out for going to our pastor the night I found out - hmmm - maybe instead of going to a spiritual person who has some training in this I should have just posted it all on facebook!

I also got chewed out about going to a spiritual adviser. My H was mad and said I was talking about him behind his back. I tried to explain that I went seeking help for our marriage. But when I suggested we go together, he didn't want to. He now talks bad about them, when just a few months before i went to them he praised them. Smh
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slimmiller
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« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2013, 10:25:12 AM »

One of the things that torque me looking back now is the fact that they will never even attempt their sick actions and cheating on some guys. I dont even allow myself to think what 'he' is allowed to do that I never was. Its disgusting.

On the other hand, I always thought when you give love and respect it is returned. What a foolish thought. Maybe in the real world but not theirs.

When it comes to reverse sexism I agree with you stoic. I have had enough of getting stepped on and going forward I wont be a pig (just cant find myself doing that) but whoever I might end up with will be an 'asset' and in more ways then one. No more fix up nut jobs. Guess what I am saying is I now know up front what i can and cannot accept in a realtionship

One of the greatest books I read when mine started crashing was 'Love and Respect'. I took it back to the library halfway through as it was a waste of time by then. It gave me hope so guess thats what mattered
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seeking balance
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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2013, 12:08:30 PM »

Since finding out about BPD and discovering this Board, I have found myself surprised about how many of you have been cheated on, and yet took your husband/wife or  boy/girlfriend back. 

Those of you whose SO had emotional affairs or full-on physical, do they ever apologize or seek forgiveness?  Do they feel remorse for violating their own standards?  Or, God forbid, for causing you pain?

Mine did not apologize and when pushed blamed me.  Quote, "I was doing what I had to in surviving an abusive relationship." Projection at its finest.

BPD (w/NPD traits) or simply immature - people cheat.  This is not a BPD trait actually and is a common avoidance tool in relationships; unfortunately.  Looking outside of ourselves and looking for someone to make us happy is something many nonBPD people do daily... .  

Taking the BPD facts into this question - let's look at the reality of what can happen if they really realize their behavior violates personal values.  With the intense emotions and all or nothing thinking, can you see where it is not a far leap to "why should I even be alive" kind of thinking?  The basic survival techniques (splitting, projection) a BPD brain uses to protect them from the extreme shame and perhaps consequences of that extreme shame are the very things we get frustrated about and feel victimized ourselves by.

Maladaptive coping strategies (affairs or otherwise) are RARELY about you.  The sooner we wrap our heads around the fact this is a mental illness, not a character disorder; the sooner we can grieve, heal and move forward.

Peace,

SB
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trouble11
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 08:02:15 PM »

I remembered something today that now makes sense to me.  Well ... .  not really but ... .    Years ago exBPDbf got caught cheating on his wife. (now ex wife)  She kept asking him, as anyone would, "How could you do this to me?"   He told me he didn't understand it because as he put it "I didn't DO anything TO her".  Not sure if it was self protecting denial or if he really didn't think cheating was DOING anything to her.  Weird.
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Leaf
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2013, 05:51:24 AM »

I tend to think blame shifting, lack of accountability, and especially lack of empathy and remorse for hurting others is more of a spiritual malady than a question of immaturity.  The bible calls this 'seared conscience'.

To me my BPDxbf's not apologizing for cheating etc. doesn't feel like immaturity either, more like some fundamental lack of conscience. I can best understand his behaviour if he sees me like his puppet on a string, cast in the role of his fantasy woman. This fantasy woman is OK with extreme sex to dangerous levels, letting him decide what to do with her money, having other women on the side, etc. If I don't play my part right he starts testing other women for this leading role. Once when he couldn't get his scheduled dose of extreme sex because I had the flue he immediately registered on a dating site.

Of course he doesn't apologize or feal guilty, why would he if I'm just a puppet on a string. It's malfunctioning so he's just going to the store for a better one. He does seem to have a exaggerated consience with regard to e.g. his dog and his mother. Maybe they don't disappoint him as much because the dog role and the mother role are a lot less demanding than the fantasy woman role.

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cal644
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2013, 05:56:43 AM »

Yesterday I ran into my soon to be exw comming out of theropy after my daughter and I were comming out of her session (same building) - my ex was crying hysterically so it did give me a little comfort where maybe she actually did feel some remorse.  As for the appology - I sent her a text after seeing her cry asking if she was ok? - her response was "it is what it is"  - I texted that I still loved her - her response was "you shouldn't" - I think that's as close to a real appology that I will ever get - that I shouldn't love her because I deserve better - at least that's what I think.
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« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2013, 08:33:51 AM »

Mine told me too I souldnt love her. She also told me she was pathetic when she had a rare moment of clarity. That was two of maybe three things she told me in the last few that I believe to be true coming out of her mouth
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« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2013, 10:08:23 AM »

One of the things that I initally had a hard time with, was trying to figure out what was "real" and what was not, especially in the things she said to me. I now know it's pretty much a waste of time to try to figure that out because I'll never know the answer.

But I also had my ex tell me things like "I feel like I'm a lost soul" and "I'm sorry I'm just so depressed right now" at the end of our relationship. I tend to think she was being honest when she told me these things (after I found out she had cheated on me).

"I feel like I'm a lost soul" is tough to hear... .  it's sad (BPD or not). Even though I want nothing to do with her ever again, I pray for her often.
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Vinnie
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2013, 01:06:39 PM »

I pray for me stbx wife too - I honestly think she is in a vortex of pain most of the time and that is why she would violate her strongly-held belief that having secret extramarital relationship reprehensible.  It's got to be exhausting --the mental gymnastics necessary to justify what she's done.
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lockedout
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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2013, 02:28:23 PM »

Unfortunately in my case, it's not what you know: it's what you can prove. I work as a firefighter and have 24 hour shifts.  It takes a lot of trust to be out of the house for that amount of time. I'm also not one to burn sick time just so I can come home at an unexpected hour to catch something in progress; if it comes to that, the trust was long-gone. I have no doubt that there were emotional affairs. She told me flat out a long time ago that she was seeking companionship from others since I "wasn't interested" in keeping a flowing conversation with her. Mostly about her dirty office politics or family drama. I should have seen the signs when I saw "strictly platonic" and "m4w" on Craigslist. She'd blown a gasket when I hadn't deleted my Match.com profile after dating for only a couple of months. Instead of asking if I was actually using it or not. She had stumbled across it while her friend was guy shopping at work then bought a subscription just to confront me.

As far as the being away at work goes, she did have one single guy friend that often came over that was a friend of "ours". Physical affair, doubtful. Emotional affair, no doubt. I had seen him quite often then she would only see him alone. Evidence of him (or whoever else) was poorly concealed. There's no way she could get through an entire Domino Pizza with just her and my son. Finding beer in my fridge was a little over the top (I was just as appalled that it was Bud Light) and it went straight to the trash. At the time this was going on, she'd gone back on birth control, attributing it to pre-menopausal symptoms brought on by the stress I was causing by abusing her. When I put the pieces together, fell to pieces, and confronted her, she basically told me I was crazy and that my suspicions were out of line.

Another time, she had been on my case for "slandering" her in online forums (not thins one, thank God). Even though it was completely anonymous and I didn't know enough to spell it out (others saw red flags and prayed for my safety and well-being) she wouldn't accept that. I was on her computer one night and was able to follow her history where she was tailing me online. to make a long story short, it led me to an incognito e-mail account she had with an e-mail from some guy for whom she was doing taxes. "I'm glad I got to come over last night... .  I was worried your roommate might come home but after you file for the divorce it won't matter what he thinks... .  you're who I want". that got me harsh condemnation for invading her privacy and she slammed me for gaining access to his tax returns she claims were attached to the e-mail. No apology.

Right after I'd moved out, she changed the locks after an argument that she instigated. When I went to drive my son (2 1/2) home one night (she failed to mention her intended off-site location) and was trying to console him because we had to get back in the car and I couldn't let him in, a Mustang I'd never seen came rolling up my driveway, opened the garage door, and pulled right in. Needless to say, my reaction wouldn't look good on a resume and I consider this to have been a suicide attempt on his part. Her story was that he was the computer guy from work; albeit a christian with two kids (perhaps the two boys I'd never seen that were in a photograph in her office), and a wife. She said she felt embarrassed by how I acted and that he was there just in case I caused trouble. She did apologize for getting angry over my reaction (guy friend #1 explained to her the cause of my reaction), but not for having another man drive into my garage right after she'd changed the locks while my son was there. She would not tell me who he actually was and not a peep was ever mentioned about damage to his car (a gas station squeegie can pick up some serious velocity when thrown in a rage: I savor in the sound of it hitting his car). The pussy never got out of the car, so I never saw his face.

That was a month ago and I know I'm the farthest thing from being prepared for a relationship and I won't love or trust again any time soon. But I am dating - I just make it clear from the start that I'm  enjoying my new freedom and that if they need me to be "emotionally available" at the snap of a finger, they can move on with no hard feelings. I'm shamelessly and unapologetically on the prowl. I had my first "date" last Thursday and have stuff in the works for tomorrow and Saturday night. I'm also exercising a lot, going to a bible-based recovery program, and journalling like crazy. I'm 38 years old and I look 28 and I'm getting dates and phone numbers quite easily: time for some fun.

As far as whoever she's messing around with (or simply recruiting to be a martyr for her), I could care less. I've since obtained a key to the house and if I need to know anything I'll sneak in and obtain whatever I need for blackmail and intimidation of whoever it is if she doesn't want to play nice when it comes time for the divorce. 
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Cumulus
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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2013, 09:46:22 PM »

My story is so similar trouble11. When I found out about the cheating (the first time) there were so many apologies, gifts and flowers and talk of how his "failures" had put his marriage at risk. When I found out about the cheating (the second time) I found out that despite all the mea culpa the first time he had never stopped seeing her. It had gone on for a couple years more! The second time I found out was the last time he got to cheat on me. It was my freedom ticket. A reason I could leave.
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adiind
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« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2023, 04:57:24 PM »

Can someone link the post by user "2010" that is being referred here?
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NarcsEverywhere
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2023, 08:09:10 AM »

I mean, basically me and my ex both cheated. I cheated for two reasons: She seduced me a lot to control me, I was young, and then she completely abandoned me sexually, and then she had some serious issues surrounding sex, that made it terrible. I cheated on her once in person (nothing too major, but still wrong), immediately confessed and apologized, and then I did end up cheating online a lot, because the lack of anything sexual wore on me.

But she did a lot of things which I feel were worse, like break up the neighbors relationship, was about to run off with him. Then, while living with me, and either during short periods of us taking breaks from each other, would get with other men, who were potential targets, and then complain to me about them, when they didn't run off with her (she never told me if she cheated, but I'm sure she did).. Also, she just had this constant orbit of men who were potential partners, that she was always talking to, including exes. Despite my cheating, I always was committed to her, and never looked to find a replacement.

She apologized once, a bit, but like I'm just glad it's over, that was one messed up relationship. I really think they're bad at apologizing in any sort of meaningful way, and keep a lot of stuff, including cheating hidden. My ex rarely apologized for anything, and when she did apologize after the relationship, she said "I'm sorry for everything". And I just kept thinking what is everything? She never took accountability for hardly anything, so when she says "everything", what is she even talking about?
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