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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: If Physical?  (Read 2851 times)
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« on: March 19, 2013, 08:30:55 AM »

Just curious, what should I do in the event my stb exuBPDh becomes physical with me?  I'm afraid once we start this process, his behavior may escalate. Recently he's becoming more and more verbal with me in front of the children.   
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marbleloser
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 08:51:48 AM »

If he becomes physical,you have no option except to call the police and press charges.There's no excuse for either the husband or wife to become physically violent.I grew up in a home with physical violence from both sides.It's something you never forget.Even the verbal abuse I remember.
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 09:05:46 AM »

He is so scary to me.  He's always been. I've had a lot of fear that if we ever did D, he would try to hurt me in every way possible.  Even my family is worried about it.  Once I start doing things to show I am strong, setting firm limits and boundaries,  that's when things escalate with him.  I am preparing myself because I am making a finance change that will affect him very soon.  He is not going to like it but I just don't have any other option. 
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 09:16:37 AM »

I went through the same.When you stick to your boundaries and finally say "Enough!" or "No",seems to be when the other party becomes unglued.If you're like me,you've given in time and time again and they think that you'll do it again if they become more irate.Think "extinction burst".

Part of the problem is,we enabled them.By not setting boundaries early on,and sticking to them,we taught them that they can treat us a certain way.

If it gets out of hand,leave! I had the stbx served at work.I got a barrage of texts that afternoon.My reasoning was I never knew if she'd be at her home or at one of her boyfriends house,but I knew she'd be at work.Not the easiest of decisions,but I had process server do it instead of the sheriff,in order to minimize any embarassment.Still looking out for her interest.It did no good.
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 10:22:38 AM »

I think if you did some research on here you'd find that going to the police may not be the best first step.  I have read where the surest way to address a physcial confrontation would be to run tot he courthouse as fast as possible.  Not exactly sure waht you'd file, maybe order for protection.  but calling the polcie, unless you are in imminent danger, may not be the best course.  If you were to search on name, "TCarlisle" you'd find this topic discussed and explained.  Wife came at him with a meat clever.
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 10:46:53 AM »

I am a male and was physically abused by uBPD+dOCD+s2bxw

1) make an exit plan (contact you local woman's shelter)

2) Have copies of all important documents moved off-site (I used my sweaty gym bag or mixed the docs with coupons I clipped during my lunch hour.  Her bathroom time was when I acted)

3) have some money (cash) set aside.  Escape funds.

4) have clothes and a place to shower ready. I moved clothes to my office.

No reason for anyone to hit you.  If he was a stranger, he couldn't get away with it in court.
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coffee shop
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 10:48:49 AM »

Sparkle - I too was worried that my xh would be physicial when served or after. His adult son told my daughter to tell me to be careful. He didn't come to me and tell me because he is scared of his Dad. I still believed that he loved me and didn't want to believe he would really hurt me physically, just emotionally.

That was a big mistake on my part.

Be careful! believe in your gut feelings.

Don't take chances.

Keep your phone with you at all times and have 911 set to speed dial.

Never be alone with him/her after you file, not at home not at a public place.

Tell a friend or family member where you are going and how long you will be gone.

Use your attorney for communications.

Make a plan for you and your children if you have minor children.

Contact your domestic violience center, They will meet you in secret and give you guidance.

Again, trust yourself, don't trust him.

Never hesitate to call 911.

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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 01:58:09 PM »

So to confirm it's okay to call 911?   We do have small children.  Or would the children and me drive to the station or call from elsewhere if an episode were to happen? I'm trying to have a plan just in case. When he told me we were over, he blocked me from walking to the kitchen with his body and told me his car is in the way so I had nowhere to go.  I do carry my cell phone with me at all times, and it's even in my hand when I walk in the house room to room.  For a long time I've tried to stay away from him and not be left alone with him.

Coffee S - great list.  I think I will start letting my family know when I go out and leave places. I'll have to look up the info for our d. violence center nearby so I have it in case.  Just trying to be prepared because I'm seeing he's doing some horribly nasty things.
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krista8521
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 02:24:46 PM »

The first time he is even yells in front of the kids or at you, get up and leave without hesitation.

Record any phone calls and try to limit contact via text or email.

I would also have a recorder hidden during any contact, that way if he does get stupid you have proof.

Anything physical call police asap, then apply for a No contact/restraining order.

stay safe and try to never meet with him alone, ask someone to be there during that time.
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GreenMango
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 02:46:17 PM »

Sparkle have you called a local domestic violence center?  Since you are trying to be proactive its good to talk to someone there and develop a safety plan.  Others in thread mentioned some things that are part of one-copies of documents, emergency bag, etc.

Ideally its a balance between imminent threat (911) and not exacerbating any more conflict while you get your ducks in a row.  Leaving suddenly or explosive arguments if you aren't ready to leave can present a danger and risk for everyone's safety. 

It's good you are planning.

Can you call one today and let us know what they say?
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 03:53:07 PM »

One problem with driving to the police station is that when you got there, the officers could tell you that with you there, then the incident was over or not actionable any longer.  Their primary purpose as first responders is to de-escalate any incident.  Once you're away from him, then the incident *may* be considered 'over'.  They may still accompany you back and speak with him, but it won't be seen with the same immediacy as a 911 call.

Besides, if it's that bad he may not allow you to leave.  (That's what happened many times with my ex in my final year or so with her.  At least once she even jumped on my back piggyback style to keep me from leaving.  I couldn't carry a kid and her both.  Other times she grabbed the phone from me.)  What if he takes your keys?  Or blocks the door?  Ponder how you would handle various scenarios.

Keep in mind that once the authorities are involved, the level of conflict is brought to a higher level and there may not be any way to "go back" to the way it was before.  So if you do end up calling 911, be prepared to follow through and seek a restraining or protection order, because he will probably be fuming or simmering below the surface.  (I called 911 - once.  We separated within a week, both of us had temporary protection orders against the other, she never wanted to reconcile and within a few months I filed for divorce.  Though I could see The End approaching in those final months, that phone call set a barrier to any hope of calming things down.  Going back to the way things were, of course, wouldn't have been a solution anyway.  The relationship had imploded, it was just a matter of extricating myself and son to the extent possible.)

Being of the male persuasion, I figured I was the one most at risk if 911 was called.  So I tried to secretly carry a voice recorder with me.  Partly to record any threats and partly to defend myself against false allegations.  Sure enough, when I called 911, she calmed down by the time they arrived and she claimed I was the one being abusive. (Typical disordered blaming, projection and evasion of consequences.)  But my preschooler was clinging to me, wouldn't go to her and so I think my son saved me that day from getting carted off.
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 04:38:29 PM »

I am so glad you are going with your intuition. I ignored mine many times, trying to convince myself he wouldn't hurt the children... .  and then one day I knew N/BPDxh was different, and my plan became real. He was served with divorce papers and decided to kill me and the kids so that no one would win. Long story short (my long story is on this forum) and the police acted and I took out restraining orders.

This may not be the same in your case, I just want to share what happened to me.

Worst part, I had only called the police 3 times over 10 years, even though I should have dozens more times. He used that against me to say there wasn't a pattern and he was depressed at this marriage ending and overreacted, out of character, was all my fault etc.

Be careful. Meet your neighbours if you haven't already and let them know that you are at risk. My neighbour and I had a signal with my bedroom light and she would call me. My family knew if they got an SMS with the number 7, I needed them immediately at the house. Number 5 meant call the police for me and come. I would sleep with the SMS ready to send just in case.

I bought a watch with a voice recorder on it. Many times N/BPDxh grabbed my iphone and threw it to stop me recording him. He didn't know about the watch, so he would get mad when he realised my phone wasn't recording and rage more.

Stay calm, get your plans in place, involve neighbours, friends and family, be ready to act, take care xxx
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 05:11:43 PM »

Sparkle,

Our local YMCA has contact information about the DV center, if you can find a number otherwise, try them. I agree with G.M., you need to call today and visit with them. You don't have to act on any information they give you but use their wisdom.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 05:16:13 PM »

Hi Sparkle,

Your story reminds me so much of my ex's behavior prior to when I left. I had been planning to leave for a long time, and actively prepared to leave for a year. I got a storage locker and put everything sentimental in there, as well as a full set of clothes for me and S11 in case I had to flee. I photocopied documents and opened a credit card in my name only. I had a safety plan with neighbors similar to what Kormilda mentioned, and carried a recording device around with me. It's hard to work that stuff when you're paralyzed with fear -- I like Kormilda's suggestion to have two devices.

Did your L tell you to abandon the marital home if you felt afraid? My L said it was best-case scenario to stay (sounds like that is what your stbxh's L is telling him), but she also said leave if I felt like my ex was going to hurt me. Can you ask your L about moving out with the kids? Ask your L how that would affect your case. I would also ask your L what happens if have to leave the house without the kids.

Has your H been abusive to you before? Do you know what the requirements are for getting a protective order? If your H does get physical, call 911 right away. Call the DV. Go to a center and see if they have an advocate -- usually, those are staff members trained to help DV survivors with the restraining order in court, and they'll go with you and help walk through the process.

Has your H isolated you from friends? If so, are there neighbors you can contact? Definitely contact your local DV, or at least know the hotline and call for advice. They're really good at thinking through contingency plans. If your H gets physical and you go to a hotel, have cash so he can't track you through a credit card. And tell the hotel to not let anyone know your real name.

If you can, try to not let his car block yours. Get copies of keys and have them hidden outside or under your car somewhere. Do you have an iPhone, or some kind of phone that allows you to look up information? If not, get the name and number of taxi companies that will come to you in case you have to leave the house.

Sorry for all the questions. But I know the kind of fear you're dealing with right now, and it's really hard to think straight. The best way to deal with that is to get as much information as possible, and have not just one plan but many.

Women (and abused men) do get out safely, and they get stronger and start to heal. You'll find strength in you that you never knew you had, and it's going to change your life. Divorcing him is the right step, and I know it feels scary right now, but you can do this. You're smart and capable -- and he is purposefully trying to intimidate you so that you feel this level of fear. Not saying he won't do anything, just that the anxiety you feel is what he's going for. The best antidote to that is to plan plan plan.

I'm pulling for you! Hang in there.
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 07:52:29 AM »

Thank you everyone for your help with this.  I really appreciate it.   I have feared us divorcing for a very long time of what he would do to me and here I am. I'm proud of myself for being strong and firm.   

As far as important papers go, he took the key to our home safe so I can't get into it right now.  I emailed my attorney this. He's also left me no access to my paycheck without any explanation, so that will be relocated soon. That's my fear - once he finds this out that he won't have access to my money, I feel it may really escalate.   His behavior toward me is worse this week. He's called me a manipulator in front of the children. Today I was trying to put socks on my daughter, he was holding her and turned his body away and blocked me from putting the socks on her.  He's acting strange and they are flocking to him, because of his new, sudden interest and interactions with them.  He also told my d -  "Mommy won't let me take you to school."  He's even an educator - just sick. 

He's clearly getting angrier and more controlling as I show my strength. And it's so true, he wants me to be afraid.  He probably gets a high on what he is doing.  He even has this evil look to him.  He looks at me with this look of death. He told me once, "Oh, you'll know when I'm mad at you." 

Livednlearned:   Thank you for your comments.  I haven't communicated anything about the situation with my attorney yet.  I just retained her last week so I'm unsure about moving out, if I can do that.  Has he been abusive?  I have a documented history (one year) of verbal and emotional abuse that he's done. I have a goodbye letter from him telling me to take care of the kids. I have letters from him stating he has a problem with anger and his parents are aggressive as well.  He became physical one time with me, pushed my leg because I did not want to be intimate with him when things were starting to get bad. I have one neighbor next door that I could talk to. She is pretty close with me and I haven't told her of the D yet. He hasn't isolated me from friends.  My family is well aware of everything about him and his behavior. 

Coffeeshop - I will look online today to find a number.  I didn't know the Y would be a resource so thank you.

My questions: Should I email my attorney today to advise her of his aggressive behavior escalating in front of the children? How do I word it?  Do I let her know that I feel unsafe? What about the times he's abruptly taken our children in secret and made me to think they weren't coming home? He has plans for his parents to take them places and wrote it on the calendar - has not told me about this, who is driving them, what time, etc.  Can he even do this?   If I contacted a DV center, what do I say? This wouldn't be held against me with having children, would it?  So I should notify my neighbor?  It's hard to even think straight right now.

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livednlearned
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2013, 06:05:33 PM »

My questions: Should I email my attorney today to advise her of his aggressive behavior escalating in front of the children? How do I word it?  Do I let her know that I feel unsafe? What about the times he's abruptly taken our children in secret and made me to think they weren't coming home? He has plans for his parents to take them places and wrote it on the calendar - has not told me about this, who is driving them, what time, etc.  Can he even do this?   If I contacted a DV center, what do I say? This wouldn't be held against me with having children, would it?  So I should notify my neighbor?  It's hard to even think straight right now.

Definitely tell your L that you are fearful.

There are two parts to this. One is your safety. The other is using his abusive behavior in court. For the first, she can give you some information and advice in case you do leave the marital home suddenly. It will help you with your planning. For the second, ask her about the scenarios you have described. If they are from a long time ago, they may not help your case. But she'll want to know both to help with custody issues, and to help think about strategy for you.

Have you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft? I never believed my ex was abusive because he never beat me. But he hurt my dog to hurt me, shoved me, locked me out of the house, slammed doors on me, screamed inches from my face, called me names, threw things at my head, hid stuff from me, and threatened. He was definitely abusive, and I was afraid of him, but for some reason I never thought of him as an abuser. It will help you to read the book so you know how to describe the abuse, and how to advocate for yourself. A lot of times, people like us get beaten down inside, and we don't call it what it is.

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2013, 09:46:06 PM »

Well I emailed my L. I told gave her a brief 2-sentence history, told her my fears and how the behavior is escalating fast. Within 15 minutes she wrote back saying to call 911 if I ever feel threatened, and that she will contact his L to discuss his behavior and the possibility of him moving out while a resolution is made.

I came home this evening to find him not at home. No note or text. Meanwhile I was at the pediatrician. So now I'm worried he'll walk in at 1 am or how the morning will go.
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2013, 08:54:11 AM »

Sparkle, what you're describing, the circumstances and the behaviors, is very similar to my exuBPD (w/NPD traits)w's leading up to the time she filed for exclusive possession of the marital residence.  She filed a petition indicating that I was the one making the house intolerable for her, and our two boys.  It was in fact the exact opposite, my ex was casting domestic violence, or the threat of, all over the house.  In the end, the judge coaersced my attorney to make a dela in chambers to get me to "agree" and I was evicted and out in two months.  Clearly the wrong decision was made and without my testimony permitted, I was thronw out.  Better that we were apart, there were threats of PFAs, etc., and she had begun calling the cops on a rfegular basis to control me, or express her power. 

Your case and the circumstances justify the situation of seizing exclusive possession of the marital residence.  This may be something you want to discuss with your L.  Some attorneys don't like the exclusive possession checkmate as there are usually ways to resolve things without going to court.  Not with a BP.  So maybe your attorney hasn't considered it, if you're feeling threatened and fearful for your safety and that of children, maybe you could discuss the option with your attorney.
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2013, 11:37:58 AM »

Sparkle, what you're describing, the circumstances and the behaviors, is very similar to my exuBPD (w/NPD traits)w's leading up to the time she filed for exclusive possession of the marital residence.  She filed a petition indicating that I was the one making the house intolerable for her, and our two boys.  It was in fact the exact opposite, my ex was casting domestic violence, or the threat of, all over the house.  In the end, the judge coaersced my attorney to make a dela in chambers to get me to "agree" and I was evicted and out in two months.  Clearly the wrong decision was made and without my testimony permitted, I was thronw out.  Better that we were apart, there were threats of PFAs, etc., and she had begun calling the cops on a rfegular basis to control me, or express her power. 

Your case and the circumstances justify the situation of seizing exclusive possession of the marital residence.  This may be something you want to discuss with your L.  Some attorneys don't like the exclusive possession checkmate as there are usually ways to resolve things without going to court.  Not with a BP.  So maybe your attorney hasn't considered it, if you're feeling threatened and fearful for your safety and that of children, maybe you could discuss the option with your attorney.

Are you ok?

I think scraps66 advice is really good. You probably feel very afraid of staying in the house if you do get exclusive possession? I did, which is why I fled and moved into an apartment. But in my state, moving out like that can be considered "abandoning bed and board," and N/BPDx could have made it hard for me to get the house. He didn't try really, and I didn't want it anyway, so he's in the process of refinancing it. I chose a place to live where I felt safer and have a garage so he can't see whether I'm home or not. You want to get your anxiety and stress down as much as possible, then worry about other big issues like supporting yourself.

Your L should also be talking to you about filing for temporary support while the divorce is pending. Have you had any conversations about that yet?

Hang in there. It's going to be a bit hairy for a while, but it will get a little less so. First, get together a good plan in case things get dangerous, and then starting pushing your L to help you get the finances straightened out. Can your family help out a bit during the interim? Will you go straight to mediation to figure out the support?



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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2013, 12:06:09 PM »

I am okay-- thank you.  Hanging in here. This is a great place for support and I truly hope everyone finds peace in all of these painful situations. 

My fear and anxiety tends to increase during the times he is in the house with me.  He is still residing there. Regarding possession of the property, we haven't gotten that far.  The issue is he won't leave me alone while residing in the house.  I'm waiting for my L to talk to his to see if he can leave.  My recent fear came from this past week of him starting to have daily episodes in front of the children.  Things like humiliating me, shutting the door in my face and taking the kids places without any information and alluding to the fact that they might not be home.  All very serious and unstable behavior.

Can you clarify temporary support?  We haven't discussed anything with that. I highly doubt mediation will work with him.  He can't even hold a normal conversation with me.   My main concern is the children and the finances, well, pretty much everything is now my concern and being able to get through this. 
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2013, 01:27:52 PM »

I am okay-- thank you.  Hanging in here. This is a great place for support and I truly hope everyone finds peace in all of these painful situations. 

My fear and anxiety tends to increase during the times he is in the house with me.  He is still residing there. Regarding possession of the property, we haven't gotten that far.  The issue is he won't leave me alone while residing in the house.  I'm waiting for my L to talk to his to see if he can leave.  My recent fear came from this past week of him starting to have daily episodes in front of the children.  Things like humiliating me, shutting the door in my face and taking the kids places without any information and alluding to the fact that they might not be home.  All very serious and unstable behavior.

Can you clarify temporary support?  We haven't discussed anything with that. I highly doubt mediation will work with him.  He can't even hold a normal conversation with me.   My main concern is the children and the finances, well, pretty much everything is now my concern and being able to get through this. 

So every state is a bit different, but here, my L said:

1. Call 911 if he hurts you. Call DV center.

2. Move out if you don't feel safe.

3. We could have filed to have him move out (I was too scared for that)

4. She told me to take 1/2 savings or 1/2 home equity to live off of while we waited for temporary support

5. Mediation (we settled on some things, but not all. Most BPD divorces don't do so well in mediation, but in your state, it might be required)

My date of separation (DOS) was Oct 29, 2010. I had to support myself with money I took out from that day until Feb, 2011 when we had mediation. During mediation, N/BPDx was in his room with his L, and I was in my room with my L. The mediator helped determine temporary support going forward (he had to pay for car payment, plus child support, plus alimony). We worked that out in mediation, and visitation for S11. I also had to disclose where I was living. We did not agree on joint legal custody.

In my state, there isn't really "sole" custody. There is sole or joint physical custody (plus one parent as primary or custodial parent), and then sole or joint legal custody (allows parents access to medical and education records) as well as decision-making. For example, I am the primary custodial parent, we share joint legal custody, and we were assigned a parenting coordinator to help with decision-making. At the moment, I've filed for sole legal custody, which will give me decision-making powers so I don't have to confer with N/BPDx. That motion is pending.

We can help you with all that stuff when it starts to happen for you. Right now, you may want to ask your L what to do about temporary support, whether you can have him removed from the house, get him to give you access to financial accounts and records, etc.

Your first decision is whether you want to stay in the house. Next decision, if you want to leave, is where to go. Find out from your L if  you can take the kids. Prepare for a short window of time where you will need to support yourself and the kids -- at least until mediation or some kind of settlement to determine temporary support. Your L will be able to help estimate child support and alimony. Tell your L that you have redirected your paycheck to an account so you can access your money, and that you are very afraid of H's reaction when he discovers. Ask you L if you can record H without getting consent -- every state has different laws.

Hope this helps. I know it's hard to think when stress is so high. The yelling at you in front of the kids and slamming doors is temporary, and kids do recover when they have a stable, steady loving parent to guide them. You'll recover too! First, look out for your safety and get as much info from your L as possible so you know what to expect and how to make decisions. And we're here for you too 

LnL
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Kormilda


« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2013, 05:44:37 PM »

Great advice from LnL.

I too chose to leave the marital home and N/BPDxh applied to live there, but the protection order was listed against that address and his request was denied. We decided to sell and the property remained vacant for 8 months whilst I lived with my parents. I didn't want to be exposed in a house that he knew as well as me. It terrified me that he kept coming into the house when I was there even after I changed the locks etc. I don't think I slept properly in over 5 years. I also had a pair of shears in my bedside table drawer under a book for self defence. Would it have helped? Not sure, but I felt better knowing I had access to something sharp, :-)

The quicker either you or he is out of the house, the better. Safety of the children is paramount and I would be very worried that he is trying to scare you with details about the children's whereabouts.

Have you called a DV support service yet? I even called the men's support line and found someone to talk to. They were great, I just wanted someone to give me realistic ideas of what to do when I was too terrified to leave.
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2013, 07:00:05 PM »

Like Kormilda said, it's a good idea to call and talk to someone in a DV center.  Here's a national hotline if you want generic information:

1-800-799-SAFE (7233) - National Domestic Violence Hotline (USA)   www.ndvh.org 

I think there's something very difficult to admit about abuse -- we tend to think "real" abuse is when our spouses are hitting us. I did not consider myself someone who was being abused, and yet I fled in fear that my ex would do something serious. Then over a year later, he sent 100+ messages in 12 hours all night long, and terrorized me into thinking he was going to kill himself and our son. I went to the DV center to file a protective order and felt like an impostor. Even though he fits the profile of someone who could do serious harm (both in words and actions), I still had this magical thinking that somehow I could fix this thing on my own. That thinking prevented me from calling the DV center before I left. Women tend to think that domestic violence means a history of being beaten. It is true that being physically hit is a serious form of abuse, but so is verbal abuse and what some people call "environmental" abuse, when your abuser throws things or slams doors on you, or locks you out of the house, or punches walls, or denies you access to money and resources. All this is to say that you are the exact type of woman DV centers and DV hotlines are there to help. They understand the mentality when we live with abusers for a long time. They understand, "He hasn't hit me... .  yet." Abusers have different profiles. Some of them don't lift a finger until one day they snap. Some of them escalate slowly. I think it's considered boiling the frog -- most of us here can identify with that: turning the heat up so slowly that you don't realize you're cooking until it's too late. If you haven't yet called a DV hotline or center, check your thinking! It could be that you have an emotional block about what it means to be abused. Try to just call them, and let go of any judgements about what it means. Tell yourself that you just want to learn one new thing about how to protect yourself in case your situation gets worse.

Another book you may want to read is The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. His book won't decrease your anxiety but he will give you permission to really listen to your intuition. Living with an abuser for a long time makes you second guess that intuition. He also has a good section on protection orders -- sometimes you can actually create more danger for yourself if you get one, and he helps you walk through the thinking so you know whether or not your abuser fits that profile.

It's a good idea to call the DV hotline, just to talk to someone and let them know you're scared, and to ask them what should you be doing. Like all volunteer services, you'll get some fantastic people, and others who are young and don't know much. When I went to the DV center, the girl doing my intake was way in over her head. I knew more about what was going on than she did, but she was, like, 19 years old and brand new. If you get someone like that, keep calling until you find someone who reassures you.

There are a lot of women like us out there. People you would NEVER expect have been in abusive relationships. I'm learning from friends here on bpdfamily.com that it's the same for many men -- but my experience is as a woman and it's what I know.

Take deep breaths. And try to take care of yourself -- this is hard stuff.



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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2013, 07:07:20 PM »

Here's a workshop on bpdfamily.com about abuse that you might find helpful (gives a breakdown of the different kinds of abuse there are). And sorry if I'm reading too much into your posts right now -- I'm definitely projecting my own experience on you! It took me a long time to admit that I was in an abusive r/s, and that meant that the water was boiling hot by the time I got out. My frog was cooked. That's pretty typical, unfortunately.

Workshop: Physically abusive relationships: Are you in one?
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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2013, 07:42:00 AM »

LVL and Kormilda - Thank you for your help. I really appreciate you reading and replying.  It sounds like you have been through some very difficult times as well.  I'll check out the workshop. 

Update:  Last night was another episode, only worse.   I had just given my D a bath and was trying to comb out the tangles in her hair.  It's always kind of a chore getting them out but I try.  He stormed into the room and started screaming at me, "Stop hurting her! You better stop hurting our kids!"  He looked me in the eye with his killer eyes and shook his finger at me. This is so far from reality.  I was trying to help her.  He was more than just angry.  He got closer to me, grabbed the detangler out of my hand causing the nozzle to break off and twisted my finger in the meantime.  He left the house for a therapy appointment. Obviously therapy is not help him. I called my counselor and she talked me through it because I was shaking and very upset.  He did this right in front of the kids without a care.  They saw it. 

I will email my lawyer to let her know this situation is urgent and he needs to get out of the house as soon as possible.  I will also call the DV number and see if I can talk to someone about getting through this weekend.  I also want to inform my neighbor.   My intuition has been telling me that it's going to get worse and last night it did. I don't want to be home much this weekend with him.  I heard him say he's planning on taking my D on an overnight at his parents.  Now is not the time to be doing this and I definitely do not feel safe with him or when our children are with him.
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2013, 10:05:28 AM »

I hope your L finds that you have enough to get a PO which will quickly remove him from the house.  I fear he is trying to set up abuse charges against you.  Include the incident and what he said about hurting the children to your L. 

Please let us know what your L advised.

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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2013, 10:22:17 AM »

I got that feeling yesterday as well.  It's so completely far fetched. My L just got back to me and said she has a second phone call into his L.  His L never returned the first phone call from a few days ago.  She also referred me to a local DV center and informed me that one of her staff has extensive experience in dealing with victims of DV. 

In addition, she told me she has put in a Request for Judicial Intervention to get us on the court calendar.  What does this mean?   
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2013, 12:43:05 PM »

Most cases are assigned regular hearing priority which is often a couple months into the future, plus or minus.  Perhaps Request for Judicial Intervention is to give the case priority and get a hearing, order or action sooner?

You can always call your domestic court and ask what some of these terms mean.  They can't give legal advice or interpretations and sometimes they'll tell you that but often they'll give you a 30 second translation from legalese to what it means in general terms.
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2013, 01:36:31 PM »

The weekends are awful.

I left on a Friday. I know how scary the weekends can be when your ex is escalating. And I know exactly what you mean by killer eyes. N/BPDx used to get that look too. If something happens this weekend, go to the DV center first thing Monday morning and ask them to help you with the PO. You don't need a lawyer for that.

But once you do it, be aware that the potential for violence can escalate. Be careful when you exit the courthouse, and be especially vigilant about your safety once he has been served. If you can stay somewhere other than the house, that's the best choice. And promise us you'll read Gift of Fear so that you understand what a PO does and doesn't do. It does not guarantee your safety -- but it does allow you to call the police if he gets near you, even if he doesn't touch you. That's more about justice than safety.

If his L does tell your H about your concerns, that may trigger him too. If your H has strong narcissistic traits, he will hate that you have portrayed him as the abuser and will want to retaliate.

As hard as it is right now, if he wants to take your Ds to his parents, that might be safest for you so you can get through the weekend without incident. It sounds like he is trying to win over your Ds, and is unlikely to hurt them, which is very good. You'll have access to your Ls and counselor if you have one. Keep the DV hotline number in your phone or somewhere in case you need to call. Check in here so we know how you're doing, if you can. People here helped me through my darkest hours and I honestly don't know how I would have fared without that support.



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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2013, 02:08:48 PM »

LNL - I do NOT look forward to mornings, evenings and weekends right now.  I am not aware of the specifics with a PO.  Good to know I don't need a lawyer for that though. The DV Center  I called today said they can help with that.  They also suggested to file a Domestic Incident Report regarding yesterday's incident.  I may try to do that this weekend.

I have added the book to my list.  I'll be checking in often with updates and questions, I'm sure.  I appreciate all of your help! 
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« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2013, 02:50:34 PM »

Hi Sparkle 13,

I found bpdfamily.com in Jan 2005 and 10 days later my exBPDH attacked me in our kitchen with my DD then 5 and 7 in the next room. BPDH fled the house luckily. I called the police  after my DD went to bed, but didn't press charges. The officer contacted my H and told him to stay away the next day. I don't know if that was normal but it was enough to keep him away. Took pics of bruises, wrote up an account of what happened and then I filed for an OOP the next day as well using a DV volunteer advocate in the court house. Did not need a lawyer.

It was terrifying and I don't want to distract from all the good advice you are getting but just letting you know that you are not alone.

One thing I read later is to avoid any and all confrontations in Bathrooms and kitchens. Too many sharp objects. I saw there was an incident in the bathroom this week. I realize it was beyond your control as you were with your DD. If a confrontation happens again, do try to move yourself away from the bathroom or kitchen and into a safer room.  Hindsight is 20/20... .  

At any rate, do stay safe and keep posting.   
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2013, 04:52:50 PM »

The DV Center  I called today said they can help with that.  They also suggested to file a Domestic Incident Report regarding yesterday's incident.  I may try to do that this weekend.

I'm so glad you called the DV center! That's big. I hope they were helpful. I live in area with an excellent DV center, but not all of them are like that.

I'm not familiar with a DIR but it sounds like a really good idea. If you file it, it will show a pattern of behavior without triggering your H (I'm assuming he will not know you filed it?). It sounds to me like you need a little more information from your L before knowing what your next big move is, so the DIR is helpful because if your H does try to file something against you, there will be a pattern of activity that you can use to verify his pattern of abuse toward you. Another good reason why it helps to talk to someone -- a neighbor, or coworker, or mother of kids in your neighborhood or community. Just in case you need to call witnesses forward that can testify that you were being abused and intimidated.

Lots of people on these boards -- men and women -- live in fear that their BPD ex's will do something to them. But we figure out ways to live with it, and to reduce the stress and anxiety. You'll get your life back eventually. It won't be a walk in the park for a while, but it will get so much better when you aren't living together. Your mind comes back! I look back on the time during date of separation and can't believe what my stress level was like.

You're doing the right thing and I'm so   that you're taking care of yourself and moving ahead with your plan. 

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« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2013, 10:43:13 PM »

I did! They told me to stop in next week to set up a safety plan. I didn't know about the Dir either. Correct- he would not know about it unless it comes up down the road and is used.

Good advice about the rooms. Tonight I was out visiting a friend with my children. The weather was bad and we got home  late. I received a text from him 'don't ya think you are out kinda late?' Hope the kids are okay'. I immediately panicked. He was trying to find out where I was.   I had a family member meet me at the house. He was already asleep, thank goodness. I ignored the text. No reason to reply.
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2013, 06:23:03 PM »

How's it going Sparkle?
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2013, 06:45:49 PM »

How's it going Sparkle?

Hope your weekend went ok... .



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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2013, 09:33:42 PM »

Hello! Thank you for checking in! Gosh weekends are tough. Saturday morning he said to me "look, I tell you where I take the kids. " I said, "you do not tell me where you take the kids." He then proceeded to tell me it's illegal to take them across the state line. I went to a friends!  I told him I had plans with the kids all weekend. He left Saturday and never came home. I don't know where he was. I had no clue if he was going to come home at 1 am.  Sunday he came home around 2 with his select groceries that included nothing that we need and none of my staples of course. Another way to get at me I suppose.

Isn't him being gone day and night exactly why his L told him he had to be in the house because of abandonment? Just seems like he's going against what his L said. Unless he never said that. Should I document that?

I will say Saturday was the first time I could breathe. I felt much, much more relaxed and at ease with him gone. The minute he opened the door, my anxiety was back. I plan to go to the DV center and file the incident report this week. I wonder how far back I can go with incidents.
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« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2013, 10:59:59 AM »

Document everything you can right now. Even things that don't seem of consequence might come in handy. And it's hard to remember things when you're experiencing high stress, and a written document can be very useful if it comes down to *he said, she said* in court. There's a good case study about that covered in Splitting by Bill Eddy.

If he is mentioning the stuff about parental abduction and taking the kids across state lines, he may be telling his L you are a flight risk.    My ex is doing that (except his concern is across the border with Canada).



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« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2013, 11:22:54 AM »

I agree with LnL, he is trying to set you up as the "bad" parent. . ."across state lines" "hurting the children"

I am hoping that today you are able to meet with the DV shelter folks about the PO and DIR.



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« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2013, 01:53:10 PM »

I'm meeting with the DV center tomorrow.  Filing the report is on my list for today or tomorrow.

I have pages and pages of about a year and a half worth of journaling, documentation, letters written by him stating he has an anger and raging issue. He's told me to forget about him and just take care of the kids a few times.   I have documentation from his actions and words said in front of the children that are not even close to this new so-called great dad he's is acting like now.   Reading through this stuff is very difficult and quite a shock for me.  There is so much I've had to put up with and alot has been forgotten.  I am so thankful for my wonderful friend intuition that I've kept great records.

Question: I believe that he may have used money in our joint account for his retainer fee.  Is this legal?  I just found an email that he wanted the daycare receipts from last year to submit them for reimbursement and this was done the week prior to our D. I bet that's why we are now negative.  Does my L need to know this could be why? 
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2013, 08:19:46 PM »

Update: met with the DV counselor. She gave me a danger assessment and it showed I am in increased danger. We talked alot about how abusers act and think. She's providing me with counseling services for my children and offered to help me with an PO. I'm glad I went.

I also filed a DIR. Probably one of the toughest moments walking to that building but it had to be done. It took about a half hour. I also discovered that the wrist pain I've been having the past few days was from that incident when H grabbed the product out of my hand. So the file has been started.

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?
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« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2013, 09:19:08 PM »

Update: met with the DV counselor. She gave me a danger assessment and it showed I am in increased danger. We talked alot about how abusers act and think. She's providing me with counseling services for my children and offered to help me with an PO. I'm glad I went.

I also filed a DIR. Probably one of the toughest moments walking to that building but it had to be done. It took about a half hour. I also discovered that the wrist pain I've been having the past few days was from that incident when H grabbed the product out of my hand. So the file has been started.

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?

Did you do the mosaic test? The one that Gavin de Becker has online -- it's another way to assess risk. Altho I look back now and can't believe I needed something like that. Guns in the house, mental illness, excessive drinking, paranoia, rages, locking me out of the house, throwing my dog... . guess sometimes we need to have the house on flames to know that it's burning.

I'm not familiar with POs in family court. Maybe it's different depending on what state you live in. But great that it can be granted instantly.
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« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2013, 09:22:50 PM »

Question: I believe that he may have used money in our joint account for his retainer fee.  Is this legal?  I just found an email that he wanted the daycare receipts from last year to submit them for reimbursement and this was done the week prior to our D. I bet that's why we are now negative.  Does my L need to know this could be why? 

Others can chime in, but I believe so. There is usually some fast math when going through financial/equitable distribution, or whatever it's called in your state. I did mine in mediation, and the money I withdrew on date of separation was subtracted from ED. But I don't know how it works if you're still living together. There is a somewhat punitive period between the time you file and when you get temporary orders filed. Ask your L how it works and when you will have that stuff straightened out so you know how you'll be able to support yourself.
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« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2013, 10:40:21 AM »

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?

Yes, in my court house in IL there was a DV advocacy group there in the lower level and I met with them and a woman just walked me in to the court house and I was granted the OOP. Temporary one. It's hard to remember... . but it later became permanent and was rolled into my divorce papers. My BPDexH record was still in the state police computers because he would complain when he got pulled over that the officers knew he had an OOP.  If you have an attorney then he or she can do it for you but they will charge... but they would probably prefer to do it. I hired my attorney after I filed the OOP so my attorney was a little surprised but as I said, she just rolled it into the divorce.

It is possible he may file one against you in retaliation with false charges so I would suggest talking to your attorney.

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« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2013, 11:39:44 AM »

M - My attorney has contacted his A twice. His A hasn't returned phone calls. She is aware of the DV situation and wants to discuss with his A the possibility of him moving out. I'm guessing she was trying to avoid the OoP.  I'm working with a DV center and they told me they could help me with the OoP.  If I went that route I would advise my attorney. She has a staff person that is experienced in DV cases and she said I could contact her if need be. 

What happens after the temporary one is given? How would he find out about it?  Does he have a certain number of days to move out?  My issue is that he is living in the house with me and I am very afraid right now.

LivenLearned: I'm not sure if it was the Mosaic test. It was several questions and I was graded using a point value system. 

My next place to go to is to get my wrist looked at. I believe it may be sprained from the incident last week, from him ripping the bottle out of my hand.   Does DV come into play when custody is decided?  He can't leave soon enough... .
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« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2013, 12:28:29 PM »

Sparkle 13

Foreverdad is right on.  :)ocument, document, document.  :)o not be afraid to call 911 if you feel you and your children are in imminent danger... . including threats.  You must do whatever is necessary to get him out of your home.  His being there is a clear invitation to trouble, and if he has any weapons, remove them from the property immediately.

Do not allow him to force you and your children to live in fear.  Take whatever steps are necessary to protect yourself and and your babies, no matter how difficult they are at the time.  

Please take care of yourself and stay strong.  
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« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2013, 12:32:22 PM »

Do I have to tell him where I am? Where my kids are? Who is watching my kids? I don't know how to reply to his email - I can't think clearly today. 
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« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2013, 12:34:30 PM »

Also if there's a situation where I need to call 911, what if he is still in the house? Do I just call? Do I remove the children?  I am trying to prepare.
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« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2013, 03:22:12 PM »

Sparkle13

Those are good questions.

Ask your attorney and/or the person she works with on DV cases for answers.  Together they can advise you about how best to legally proceed, what to tell your dh and what not to tell him, etc.  You can trust their judgement.

I hope you contact them soon.

Be safe.

 

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« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2013, 04:13:25 PM »

Do I have to tell him where I am? Where my kids are? Who is watching my kids? I don't know how to reply to his email - I can't think clearly today. 

I fled the marital home abruptly and moved into an apartment, taking S11 with me, that day without telling N/BPDxh. However -- and this is important -- I immediately put S11 in contact with his dad. They talked on the phone. I wrote N/BPDxh an email that said S11 was safe, he was with me, and that he would call his dad at xyz time/day to talk to him.

We lived in that apartment 3.5 mos and neither lawyer made me disclose our address. I did disclose it during mediation, and it is in the order that he was not allowed to get out of his car while on the property, and could not come to my door.

Talk to your L about whether or not you can do this too in your state.
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« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2013, 04:16:06 PM »

My next place to go to is to get my wrist looked at. I believe it may be sprained from the incident last week, from him ripping the bottle out of my hand.   :)oes DV come into play when custody is decided?  He can't leave soon enough... .

DV can come into play when custody is decided. Sometimes, courts look at fighting between adults as just that -- fighting between adults. They will take seriously any abuse from your H toward your kids, and in general they understand that hitting mom is bad for kids. It depends a lot on your case and how your L handles it, the kind of documentation you have, whether or not you'll get a custody evaluation, how disordered your ex is, whether there is mediation, etc. 
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« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2013, 04:30:55 PM »

 

What happens after the temporary one is given? How would he find out about it?  :)oes he have a certain number of days to move out?  My issue is that he is living in the house with me and I am very afraid right now.

So usually he would be served by someone that is hired to do that -- track down your H and serves him papers. In general, that is a very inflammatory experience, so you want to be doubly sure that you are safe. Tell the police for your area what is happening, have your phone on you, change the locks on your house, or better yet, stay somewhere else.

Then, if it's the same where you are, officers will come with him during something they call "domestic assistance" to make sure no one is hurt.

You are right to be afraid. In Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker talks about the psychological effect of POs on certain profiles of abusers, and in general, someone with a PD is not going to take kindly to being served. It makes them feel controlled.

It is possible that your L and his L are going to negotiate that in exchange for a PO, he just agrees to move out. That might work, but might not be any less dangerous, and the safest thing for you is to probably find a place to stay that feels safe. Take pictures of your home and remove anything you don't want him to destroy or take for himself.

It's awful that it has to be so scary in order for you to create a safe life for yourself. Hopefully he is just trying to intimidate you. In Gift of Fear, de Becker says that in general, it's the men who already physically abuse their wives that are the ones to really worry about, but he also says to create a safety plan to protect yourself from any kind of abuser.
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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2013, 09:42:39 PM »

Today I found out that the results of my X-ray read my wrist is fractured from the incident last week. I now have to see an orthopedic dr. This leads me to believe an order of protection may have to be my  next course of action. I can't wait for another episode done to me or in front of my kids. The DV center can help me but I will tell my A as well. He's still residing in the house, making it awful for me and our family.

Is there anything I need to know about an OoP? I'm mentally exhausted at this point.

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« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2013, 10:58:57 PM »

I am so sorry.

Do you have any place you can go... . friends or relatives who can help temporarily?

By all means tell your A and get some advice as soon as possible.

Did you tell the doctor what really happened?  He may be required to report DV

to the police, just like suspected child abuse.
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2013, 06:51:28 AM »

Not really. My dad is closeby but he hasn't offered. My A knows of the incident and has left messages with his A to possibly have him move out. I just found out about the fracture yesterday so first thing Mon. I will let her know and give her the dr. Report. He never came home last night.

I did tell the doctor and they know I filed at Dir with the police. I have a feeling that now it's a fracture this may change things. Maybe I should ask my A if I should do the OoP. The DV center would help me but I'm very confused and scared at this point.  He just needs to be removed from our house.

Would the OoP have him stay away from the kids too?
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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2013, 09:54:32 AM »

Sparkle13

My temp OOP scared my exBPDH and he had fled the apartment already. I think it did protect the kids but I cant remember exact provisions. It was definitely amended when extended beyond 30 days for visitation at a mutual friends house (no family lived near) and for child support. It was 8 years ago. So I'm foggy on details.

In my case, my H was scared of being arrested so it did work.

You need to talk to your attorney---  I would try to call today even... . My attorney will return emergency calls like a doctor on weekends... .

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« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2013, 10:21:04 AM »

I agree... . call your A today.  :)o the police have his vehicle license number?  If so, they could have picked him up already, but I would think they would let you know.

Another option would be to get the locks at your house changed TODAY.  If he shows up and cannot get in, call 911 and have him arrested then and there.  If you feel you are in imminent danger, the police might be able to put an unmarked car outside your home ... . if they have the capability and you ask.

It is time to stop playing nice and protect yourself and your children.  
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2013, 12:16:18 PM »

I don't know if they take emergency calls. I can email my A's assistant that she referred me to maybe. He came home today. So I still have to allow him to take the kids to his families' for Easter? This is an awful situation.

The police don't have his license plate that I know of. I know my A gets her emails on her phone so maybe I should send her a message now. I agree - I'm done playing nice.
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« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2013, 02:36:35 PM »

Hi Sparkle,

Try your L -- email her. But don't worry too much if you can't get in touch with her. I had a similar incident happen over the weekend (I think BPD gets worse on the weekends).

The dread you feel right now is worth trusting. I know it's hard to think when you're going through this. What I would do in your shoes:

1. Leave with the kids and go stay somewhere safe.

2. Call your L and tell her what you are doing.

3. Call a DV hotline and tell them what you are doing.

4. Write an email to your ex to tell him that you are temporarily staying somewhere with the kids because you no longer feel safe. Tell him that they will call him at x time every morning and night, and that you are staying somewhere local, but do not feel safe disclosing the location. Tell him it is your job to keep the kids safe and given how angry H has been, you can no longer guarantee that the home is safe while living there. Last, tell him that you have asked your L and his L to discuss where H will live while divorce proceedings continue so that you can both create the safest, least disruptive environment for your kids. Tell him that you will not talk to him face-to-face, only by text.

5. Once you have left, have the kids call their father as stated in your email. Your L will probably tell you to make sure the kids talk to their father immediately so that you cannot be accused of withholding contact between them. It is common for victims of DV to leave with the kids, and there is a procedure in place. But you also have to make sure it doesn't look like you are trying to prevent the kids from having a relationship with their dad. Having them call and talk on the phone is sufficient. I fled on a Friday and S11 talked to his dad Monday night. There were no consequences for me. I made sure S11 talked to his dad at 7pm promptly every night, and kept records of my cell phone bill to prove it. I did not talk to N/BPDx verbally after that -- only at our deposition, for 45 seconds, have we spoken to each other face to face. Everything is in text.

Tell the kids what is happening in straightforward terms. I told S11: "It's my job to keep you safe, and I no longer feel I can do that while living in the same house with N/BPDxh. You and I are going to live somewhere different for a while until he cools his jets. He is being a bully to me and that is not ok. It's going to be a change, but you will talk to H on the phone. Until I think he has his anger under control, it is not ok to tell him where we are living."

6. On Monday, call your L again.

7. First thing Monday morning, go to the DV center and have them help you with the PO. Get a copy of the x-rays and take them with you.

Since you do not yet have a custody order or visitation schedule in place, it is likely that the PO order will prevent your ex from seeing the kids, at least until he files an ex parte order -- all that means is that he files an emergency motion to get the courts to intervene quickly instead of waiting the usual long period of time it takes to get hearings on the calendar.

Keep in mind that when your H is served, he will probably go ballistic. It's one of the most dangerous times -- right after they are served. I don't recommend that you move back into the house right away. If you do move back, ask your L if you can change the locks -- it might be a good idea to do that regardless of what she says. With the x-ray, you have a better case to show the judge that H is capable of violence, and he might think changing the locks was a smart move regardless of whether or not you followed the correct legal procedure. Ask people to stay with you that you trust so that you can relax. A PO will help you if H approaches the property, but it doesn't guarantee your safety, if that makes sense.







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« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2013, 02:53:17 PM »

Hi Sparkle,

This is from another thread, but it gets at what I'm trying to say about POs. There is a place for them, and they can provide some protection, but they don't quite work like we want them to with disordered, mentally ill people:

Excerpt
I went down and chatted with the sheriff, whom I know pretty well (not just from the fire dept, but from political activities--same view, fortunately  ). Asked him, confidentially, what my options are, without actually making a report. He told me to pick up a restraining order packet and read it and think about it, and was also frank in saying it doesn't do much good until AFTER it's broken and that it usually plays out differently with someone with severe mental illness--often causing an escalation and sometimes triggering this mentally ill person to be more violent than they would have been without it.

That's what Gavin de Becker writes about POs in The Gift of Fear. When my ex was having his psychotic episode while S11 was spending the night with him, I agonized about sending law enforcement to check on S11 (that's all cops can do in civil orders) and filing the PO. N/BPDxh threatened to not return S11 during the scheduled exchange time on Sunday, and wrote threats that (were intended to) make me think he was going to kill S11 ("You'll never see S11 again, I guess you don't love your son because of your own stupid ego, I should have done this a long time ago, you won't see S11 today and you only have yourself to blame, etc".

I called my therapist on a Sunday and she (thank god) answered my call. We talked for about an hour, and she helped me think through the repercussions of any action I took, including calling the police to provide a "well-child check" at n/BPDx's house to make sure S11 was ok. I was worried that could trigger N/BPDx to do something, and the cops could not guarantee that I could remove S11 from the house. They would only do that if they thought S11 was under some kind of threat, but would not guarantee what the criteria was for gauging whether he was being harmed  :'(

In the end, T helped me second-guess N/BPDx's logic, and she felt sure he was bluffing, and that he would bring S11 back promptly on time.

He did.

S11 was totally rattled, but had not been hurt.

I did not file the PO for the same reason, but went on high alert about my safety, including reporting what was happening at my office. My boss moved my office, I don't have anything on my door that indicates who works there, and we circulated a picture of N/BPDxh throughout the building. I moved into a new apartment that has a garage so N/BPDx can't see if I'm home, got an alarm system, etc.

My H has a lot of narcissism, and that seems to have worked in my favor. He does not want to appear "weak" in front of anyone. Ultimately, that's what my T said: N/BPDx does not want the neighbors to think he's the problem, and isn't likely to harm me because it will make him look bad. He has no trouble telling S11 that he wants to beat me to a pulp with S11's baseball bat  :'( so that sucks.

Because your H has already hurt you, there is more of a chance that he will continue to try and be violent. That's what the stats on abusive men say.

Your first priority needs to be your safety right now. Then deal with the courts.

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« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2013, 08:42:28 PM »

Sparkle

Have not heard from you today.  Are you ok?
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« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2013, 08:21:23 AM »

Hi - I'm alright.  I am just very confused and overwhelmed right now as to what to do.  I have an email into my A and I haven't heard back yet.  I have to make an appointment to have my wrist looked at.  I need to call the DV center and let my counselor know my wrist is fractured.  I also need to talk to my C and let her know the severity of the situation.   

He's at home this week with the kids for break. My D said she's sleeping over his parents tonight. He never said anything about this. Last night he told me he was going to pick something up at his parents and looked at me with this evil look.  Last night he left at night for a few hours and came back. I never know if he's sleeping in the house or when he's coming back.  I'm not sleeping, I can't breathe, I'm scared, I don't feel safe and I can't relax anywhere right now. I don't really have anywhere to move to temporarily. 

LNL - thank you for your step by step directions.  I will call the DV center today and see what they say. 
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« Reply #61 on: April 01, 2013, 09:40:17 AM »

Spoke to my L.  She is recommending I file the OoP and the DV center will be helping me today. I am very nervous but I know my safety and the kids safety is now priority.  I just have to figure out the logistics and make sure we aren't home when the serving takes place. 
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« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2013, 11:46:05 AM »

PS  I used to keep and carry a tape recorder.  It was a voice activated one that I used to leave in strategic locations throughout the house before I left.  Then I forgot where I put it and never found it!  Even now, if in close proximity to my uexBPDNPDw, I have my smartphone set to record in my hand at all times.
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« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2013, 12:33:44 PM »

Sparkle

Glad you are ok and things are falling in to place.  You now have others to support you and you need to act quickly to get him served and out.  Everyone being home for Spring Break could either work to distract him, or make things worse if it increases conflict... .   like the kids fighting among themselves.  Something kids do.

Recording threats is a good idea if it can be done without causing more problems.

Please be careful.  Keep us posted.  Prayers for you and your children.


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« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2013, 10:17:56 PM »

I'm very exhausted. The OOP was served tonight. Earlier than I was told. It was the lesser one though- just a warning which the counselors did not understand because my wrist is fractured. This is not good. So he is still in the house.  He left tonight but I expect him back.

He took my d to his parents overnight and it looks like they must not allowed for her to call me tonight. This is awful. I advised my L of the OOP and she wants to talk to me tomorrow.
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« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2013, 10:22:51 PM »

Sparkle

A warning?  What the heck?  He has already broken your wrist.  he should be charged

not warned.  This is crazy! 
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« Reply #66 on: April 02, 2013, 06:59:46 AM »

Exactly!  I was shocked and very disappointed.  I was there for five hours.  Doesn't make sense why they would give a warning. Unless it was bc he doesn't have any record until this.   His A has not returned my A's calls going on three weeks now.  Then the incident occurs.  My A was trying to prevent the incident from occuring and now I have a fractured wrist. I explained to the officer that I don't feel safe around him and he instructed me to call if anything happens.  They advised me of when he was served so I knew last night.   He returned to the house late last night, as he's on break this week. 
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« Reply #67 on: April 02, 2013, 10:49:11 AM »

Sparkle13

This sounds very odd. My temp OOP was granted in the court house by a judge. I don't understand how there can be a warning unless it was just an incident report at the police station. You should have a copy of the OOP which clearly states it is an OOP.  I would take all paperwork to your L and get a real OOP. It doesn't matter that he has no prior record.

Good luck today.
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« Reply #68 on: April 02, 2013, 12:19:19 PM »

Sparkle

 

You need an OOP with some teeth in it.  Law enforcement is not taking this seriously, I suspect you may need to formally charge him if you have not done so already.  Make it clear to the judge you have children in the house and he is violent and unpredictable.

I cannot recall if your h has BPD.  If so tell the judge... .   that fact alone makes it a whole new situation. 

This is outrageous.  A slap on the wrist.  The only thing he needs slapped on his wrists are handcuffs!

I cannot recall if your h has BPD.  If so tell the judge... .   that fact alone makes it a whole new situation. 



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« Reply #69 on: April 02, 2013, 12:42:16 PM »

Spoke to my L.  We are now filing an Order to Show Cause to bump it up to a level 1. The court day given was in three weeks as well so she wants that bumped up.  I didn't see a judge but instead she was a referee.  I think he is B.  He isn't officially diagnosed.

I've been instructed to call 911 in the event another situation occurs. I am on alert but extremely on edge all of the time. Awful.
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« Reply #70 on: April 02, 2013, 01:32:05 PM »

Sparkle

You saw a mediator.  What is the To Show Cause order?  Is that to get a full OOP?

In the meantime, your h stays in the home, terrifying you and your children?  That is insane.

His history of violence is not going to go away, the potential for disaster is still there, and the psychological impact is huge for you and your children.

Has your h's behavior changed at all since being served? 

I assume no charges have been filed, because of the court's lack of action.  Personally, I think this is a mistake.  He broke your wrist and continues to threaten you.  He should be in jail.  I am very surprised your L is not doing more. 

I am sorry you have been let down yet again.  This is wrong on so many levels.

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« Reply #71 on: April 02, 2013, 01:46:28 PM »

Yes, it's to get the full OoP.  It's wrong and completely insane. I can't even imagine how someone can allow a man who has injured his wife in front of children to reside there on a warning?  The mediator told me this was given to hope he calms down.  There is no way that is happening! I know this.  This will be a trigger so either it will force him to move out on his own or it will go opposite. Meanwhile, I, who pretty much takes care of everything with our children, continue to live in fear every minute of my life.    

I haven't seen him. He was served last night, came home around midnight and didn't see him this morning when I left.  I will see him tonight I'm sure. I am sick to my stomach.  On top of this, I still have to see the ortho dr. for my wrist.  

Looking at the title of this thread, "If physical, " was started on March 19.  The incident happened on March 21.  I will say that this is proof that I am very in tune with my intuition.

Does anyone have any insight how this may affect custody?  It is terrifying to me when he is alone with the kids. I just don't have trust in this situation at all and really feel I need to protect my children.
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« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »

Sparkle

Your h may stay just to torment you.

He should be forced to go live with his parents until the divorce is finalized.  He should not even have the option of staying.  I do not understand why the law is supporting him ... .   you are the victim here.

They seem to view this as an isolated domestic issue, and they are giving him the benefit of the doubt with regard to his behavior.  It is still assault, no matter how you try to sugar-coat it.

Assault is a legal issue and it calls for legal action.



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« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2013, 02:10:07 PM »

How many chances do I have to give this man before he seriously hurts someone? Me? The kids?  How could they allow him to reside with us? I'm so tired of giving him chance after chance to improve his behavior.  I am the victim. I've been the victim for years.  The paperwork was processed right from the domestic violence center.  He is not going to calm down.  I can't talk to him.  He won't discuss anything calmly with me.   
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« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2013, 02:34:03 PM »

Sparkle

EXACTLY!

Assault or assault and battery is a prosecutable offense in my state.  He would be arrested and  in jail. 

I would be interested to know why they are downplaying the seriousness of his actions.  Everyone should be made aware this is not an isolated incident: your L, the DV people, the judge, and the police.  Personally, I think they are stalling until the divorce is final, hoping the issue will just go away... .   If he gets away with it, what is to stop him from escalating?

You are right, this can be the most dangerous phase of a divorce.  The fact he remains in your home is absurd.   What he has done is assault, and you need to consider legal options.  Talk to your lawyer.
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« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2013, 02:43:35 PM »

To a large extent, the agencies and courts view adult behaviors (such as DV) as separate from parenting behaviors.  (Yes, I know, why should the system expect a person to consistently behave as two separate people?)

In my case, I called CPS twice before separation, both times reporting my ex raging at me in front of our child.  If I told her "He's right here, look at him, he's cowering!" then she'd retort, "You made me do it!"  (Toward the end she started to rage at me mostly when he was asleep or in another room and she would deny any effect on our child.)  Each time the CPS staff asked one question, "Is she raging at your child?"  I had to answer No and I was told to call back if she ever did that.  They apparently were powerless unless he was the focus of the rage, being exposed to it wasn't actionable.  Well, the problem with that was that he was the Golden Child and I was the Blacklisted Rejected Spouse Mr Evil Personified.  Only a few months ago, some 7 years later, he told me, "My mommy hates you."

That may be something to address when seeking a protection order, try your best to get the children included and him required to be supervised to some extent, at least until an evaluation could be made to determine to what extent he can have parenting or visitation.  If you don't push to get the kids included, they may give only you protection, however limited.

It's possible the action now is minimal because you didn't immediately seek protection.  The system is set up to respond quicker when the emergency responders are involved.  The longer the delay the harder to get action.  That's the price of being a Nice Guy or Nice Gal and waiting to see what happens.  Delay (and the resumed contact) makes the urgency seem less.

Going forward, don't initiate trying to reason with him any more.  You know it won't work and even if it seems to work, you know it won't last for long.  Sadly.  And IMO no more physical contact on your part and if he tries then you politely state your boundary of No Physical Contact.  If possible, let the system take over, if it will follow through and do it.
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« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2013, 02:59:00 PM »

ForeverDad

This is not just about raging.  He physically attacked Sparkle and broke her wrist.  That is assault.
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« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2013, 05:11:34 PM »

ForeverDad

This is not just about raging.  He physically attacked Sparkle and broke her wrist.  That is assault.

Correct.  However, I was only giving a heads up about a possible court perspective that she may have to deal with.  All I was saying, first, is that there is risk that her local system may see it as less than urgent if some time has passed.  Second, I was stating that her local system may see only her at risk - since she was the focus of the abuse - and not both her and the children.*  That's why I encouraged her to try to get them included at least until some sort of evaluation can be done.  Of course, I'm not a part of the system and so that is just my generalized observation of how things turn out in many cases.

* In my case, I got a TPO in municipal court when my ex was arrested for threats of DV.  Yet municipal court issued the TPO only for me, our child wasn't included.  My then-spouse even asked the judge about our child and he stated that minors were handled in family court.  Naturally, as soon as she got out she went to family court and got an ex parte TPO against me and included our son in it and, despite her pending case in municipal court, family court rubberstamped her petition and it was in force until we both were scheduled to appear a week or two later for both sides ofthe case to be heard.  So far as I ever learned, family court ignored that line on her petition that listed her pending case in the other court.
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« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2013, 05:30:46 PM »

Appreciate all of your comments. I  checked and the next OoP will include the kids.
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« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2013, 05:55:40 PM »

ForeverDad

I do not understand why Sparkle's h was not charged with a crime that would get immediate action,

rather than having to play DV games with the court.   He did not just throw a flower pot at her or shove her... .   he fractured her wrist requiring an Emergency Room visit and now she needs to see an orthopedist.  AND after all of that she still has to jump through hoops to get him out of the house to protect herself and her children from on-going abuse?  

Our legal system is totally dysfunctional.  
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« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2013, 07:19:41 PM »

Sparkle13 would have to press charges. I didn't but I still got an oop. It is hard when all this is happening to make decisions. Having your H arrested is different than getting an oop.

In my case years later,, even when there were bruises and my child was abused dcfs did not want to indicate abuse. They did but it was really iffy there as the case worker thought my ExH was a nice guy. ? Ugg in the end it was just a letter I could use but it was not definitive in any thing in and of itself.

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« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2013, 07:43:13 PM »

I need some help! I came home today and my H and kids weren't home. I started to get concerned so I texted him asking where are the kids and when will they be home? His reply: I've been instructed to leave the marital home. The kids are safe and will reside with me. I called police and they told me there's nothing they can do because he is the father. I explained  the OOP. contacted the DV center and spoke with a rep who referred me to crisis services.

I'm About to email my L. I'm a mess right now... .  
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« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2013, 07:57:10 PM »

Are the kids listed on the OOP?

I'm in Aust so rules may be different, but I needed to have them on the OOP for it to be enforceable.

I hope that you get some answers from your L soon. Try to stay calm and remember to breathe. You need all your faculties together to be in the right position to fight back the right way.

Don't harass him with phone calls or messages. It could be used against you as  evidence that you are not leaving him alone and will get everything you are trying to achieve off balance.

Do you have a mutual friend that might be able to help you with some info about where and how they are?

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« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2013, 08:01:59 PM »

Sparkle

It sounds like he spoke to his L who knows the police have no legal right to stop him now.  He was also probably told a formal OOP would most likely include the children.  He is doing this to hurt you, not them.    

I am so sorry.
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« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2013, 08:02:23 PM »

No. Our next step was to apply for the stay away OP and that would include the kids. I only sent the one text. I am guessing they are at his parents.
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« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2013, 08:06:27 PM »

M- I've been talking to family and a friend. I agree, it's to hurt me. Probably because I filed the OOP among other things. I haven't heard from my D in two days. He has not allowed them to contact me and I am sure they are asking. My youngest has never slept away from me. I am so upset.
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« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2013, 08:23:54 PM »



As a precaution, the first thing you MUST do is change the locks on your home immediately, so he cannot return while you are alone.  Or stay with a friend somewhere other than your house.  I suspect this is exactly what your L will advise.
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« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2013, 08:34:15 PM »

Okay- also he just texted me to get me to agree on custody arrangements. No way. He wrote please reply to this text. What do I say?
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« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2013, 08:37:00 PM »

Does he want joint custody?  You could tell him you need to talk to your L about it before making any decisions.  He is trying to use this crisis to get you to agree to whatever he wants.
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« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2013, 08:39:44 PM »

It sounds like he spoke to his L who knows the police have no legal right to stop him now... .   He is doing this to hurt you, not them.

Quite likely it will be a race, metaphorically at least, to see who gets to the court house first.  His lawyer, who of course has only heard his version, has advised him to seek as much leverage as he can.

At least you know now that he's unlikely to pop in.  He still can, he can say he came to get his things, but he may not want to risk letting the kids get back with you.

Is he back at work?  I figure at least one of the children is old enough for school?  Do you use daycare?  If so, then likely you can (without telling him in advance, remember, no more sharing information or strategies) take some time off from work or leave early and pick up the children well before he would arrive?

Right now he's going to try to keep the children until the hearing, whenever that is, and show up claiming you're a terrible parent, you aren't caring for the kids, he can't work because he has to take care of the children, he did not break your wrist, etc, etc.

Likely too he's taking this time to try to convince the kids he never misbehaved in front of them, that you don't love them, you don't want them, etc.  Not much you can do right now.  Stick close to your lawyer, push for that OoP ASAP, stbExH has likely got some more surprises up his sleeve, perhaps he will even make wild counter allegations.

The police are probably going to stay 'hands off' regarding possession of the children until some order comes through that tells them which parent comes out on top.  Meanwhile you have to be on your best behavior.  StbExH may try to entrap you or frame you for abuse.  Beware, he will try to push your buttons, getting you to react or attack and you can bet he'll be recording it or have witnesses.  He sees this as most pwBPD do, all good or all bad, so he will fight that way too, without limits, no pulled punches, no holds barred, underhanded, anything to cause you pain and/or do something to sabotage your case as the victim and target.  I repeat, he will try to shift the blame from him to you.  And he will be so emotionally convincing to the unwary or gullible.  Be aware.  Beware.

See my prior post copied below where the court was not very concerned at all about what my ex did, blocking my access for 3 months while I waited for my scheduled hearing.  Yes, you see it as The End Of The World, but your lawyer will tell you that in the grand scheme of things you have to be patient and let the system work, imperfect though it is.  (Your situation is different from mine, besides our gender difference, my ex had made vehement death threats, yours actually broke your wrist.)  Your lawyer may tell you that you can request the police to do a "well check" or you can ask your local police about it.  Often they will agree to check up on the children to verify they're okay and then let you know.

This was my experience... .   While we were separated but before I had filed for divorce she started blocking all father-child access.  I never found a time she left our preschooler anywhere since she had her own schedule, didn't use a daycare and son wasn't in school.  The police refused to help me see our child nor accompany me for a peace visit, I was told I needed a court order in hand before they would step in, though I was also assured (warned) that if I went to her residence to see our son and she called the police then they would respond immediately, presumably to protect her from a dangerous situation.

After a month of blocking I filed for divorce.  Nothing changed because I still had no order.  I had to wait nearly two more months to finally get to visit with our son a few days after our hearing in family court.  The magistrate knew I hadn't seen my son for 3 months yet saw no urgency for a father-son reunion, in fact she asked for an extra day's delay since she wanted to take our son to an out-of-town event the next Saturday and so the magistrate delayed the reunion by 26 hours to accommodate her.  Maybe in his mind he reasoned I had been blocked 3 months and if I was going to have to wait for my newly scheduled upcoming weekend then what was another day and two hours?

This may be how your court could see your parenting choices, that without a court order in place then you can pretty much do as you please, as happened with my uncooperative spouse.  Then again, maybe it won't.  It's hard to say in advance.

My point?  Do what you feel is right and reasonable for you and your children.  You don't have to respond and appease his every demand.  Yes, he's trying to make you out to be blocking or unreasonable.  But the court is not likely to scrutinize your every decision or choice, especially if you're just continuing your typical schedule and pattern.  I think.  So don't seek confrontation but on the other hand appeasing could send him a message that you don't have firm boundaries and he will push even more.

Right now you're probably encountering what we have termed an extinction burst, where he's been triggered and is demanding more and more control in order to get Compliant Spouse back where you were and as you were before.

Are you recording every interaction yet?  (Sorry to keep asking, but he may say something that could later help your case - or even save you from false allegations or false claims.)

Edit:

Does he want joint custody?  You could tell him you need to talk to your L about it before making any decisions.  He is trying to use this crisis to get you to agree to whatever he wants.

As for his 'demand' (I say demand because he thinks he has leverage over you now, possession of the kids) to agree on custody arrangements, you can reply simply that your lawyer instructed you to make no major decisions without lawyer's review and approval.  Then politely ask for the children to come back home or meet him at the police station for an exchange.  That's right, blame your lawyer for lack of a firm answer.  That's part of lawyer's job, to take some of the heat and pressure off you.

However, it's okay to ask him what he wants.  No problem there, you can always listen or read, just don't commit yourself to literally anything.  Say, "I'll have to think about it." Or, "I'll have to ask my lawyer."  Or, "It's too soon to make decisions... .   "

Perhaps he's trying to get you to agree to less just to get the kids back and then use it against you (see above about recording) in court saying you really don't want as much time/custody as you are seeking?
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« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2013, 08:57:05 PM »

Are you planning to be at your lawyer's office as soon as it opens in the morning? This constitutes an emergency action. FD is right - it is a race to the courthouse.

Next item on the list is changing the locks.

For now... .   NO AGREEMENT TO HIS DEMANDS.
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« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2013, 09:43:08 PM »

It sounds like your H got the same advice I did -- that it is ok to remove the minor child from the marital home. In my case, tho, I was advised to make sure S11 talked to his dad and talk to him regularly. Even the note from your H is like the one I sent to N/BPDx when I left.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can file an ex parte order tomorrow so that there is an emergency hearing. Otherwise you have to wait for a hearing to show up on the official court calendar, and that can take weeks, often months.

Be prepared that there may be no consequences for your H taking the kids. There were no consequences for me, but N/BPDx also did not file any emergency orders.

If he texts you anything that makes you worried, tell him you have an attorney representing you and will consult with her. It will cost $$, but right now while you are this fragile and worried, you need to make sure you don't make any decisions that could affect you adversely.

 to you -- I know it's hard. Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

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« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2013, 10:13:47 PM »

Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

I would suggest you don't do a drive by, not unless you are invited/allowed or your lawyer gives the okay.  Your H could claim you are stalking, attacking, threatening or whatever.  There are simply too many ways it could go wrong and get you into trouble.

Yes, this is an especially sensitive time.  My lawyer would tell you to stay home and wait for the morning.  He would probably also say it's okay to try to call the children if not too late (even if it is H's phone, just be sure to specifically ask only to speak with the children and of course speak calmly with them).  If you do, make sure you record yourself since he may try to use any contact to make false allegations.  (The agencies don't call them "false" allegations, they call them "unsubstantiated" or rarely the better "unfounded".)  Another alternative is to ask the police to do a "well check" for you.

I get the feeling you may have to take a few days off work until you get some semblance of normalcy and stability with your parenting time.
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« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2013, 10:29:21 PM »

Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

I would suggest you don't do a drive by, not unless you are invited/allowed or your lawyer gives the okay.  Your H could claim you are stalking, attacking, threatening or whatever.  There are simply too many ways it could go wrong and get you into trouble.

Yes, this is an especially sensitive time.  My lawyer would tell you to stay home and wait for the morning.  He would probably also say it's okay to try to call the children if not too late (even if it is H's phone, just be sure to specifically ask only to speak with the children and of course speak calmly with them).  If you do, make sure you record yourself since he may try to use any contact to make false allegations.  (The agencies don't call them "false" allegations, they call them "unsubstantiated" or rarely the better "unfounded".)  Another alternative is to ask the police to do a "well check" for you.

I get the feeling you may have to take a few days off work until you get some semblance of normalcy and stability with your parenting time.

Not sure how it could be considered stalking -- they are her kids. He is allowed to take the kids and law enforcement cannot do anything to stop that from happening. Looking for your kids without causing a scene is a lot less threatening (and psychologically damaging) than having law enforcement do a well-child check. But I agree that it's a good idea to check in with your L and get some advice about what to do.

And if you do a drive by and your H sees you, will he accuse you of stalking? Yes. Of course he will. He's nuts. But he'll accuse you of doing all kinds of things, if he's like my ex, and it's just blowing smoke. After a while you have to do what is reasonable (running it by your L while things are so hot), and live a normal life. The kind without eggshells.
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« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2013, 10:35:09 PM »

Okay, I'm a man.  Maybe it was different for me.

But basically the police told me bluntly they'd rush over if I went to see my son and she called 911.  I didn't want to get arrested and they hinted without quite saying so that it could happen.  And she would have made sure to get me arrested, no doubt about that, since I had her arrested a few months earlier when she made death threats.  As bad she she looked, she was desperate to make me look as bad as or worse than her.

As it turned out, even though I didn't go to her apartment, she did file for stalking/harassment protection.  Seems she claimed I harassed her when I called once a day to talk to my son.   Of course all my calls were blocked too.

Those 3 months of blocked contact were the worst months of my life.  (Yet my lawyer acted as though it was no big deal.  So did court, the magistrate didn't even admonish her or anything, just said, "I'll order a parenting schedule."  Yet, as I look back I see that I survived and so did my child.  It wasn't fun and it wasn't good, but I got a better perspective looking back once it was over.  And it will be over for you too, sooner or later, it will be over.  This bad time will pass.  Count on it.  Pray, meditate, talk with friends, cry on trusted shoulders, hug a lot.  You'll get through it.  So will the kids.  As hard as it is to picture it now, very soon this difficult time will be past.  Patience, grasshopper.
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« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2013, 10:52:47 PM »

As it turned out, even though I didn't go to her apartment, she did file for stalking/harassment protection.  Seems she claimed I harassed her when I called once a day to talk to my son.   Of course all my calls were blocked too.

That's my point. Whether you drive by or don't, or call or don't, you are "stalking" or "harassing" or whatever. What would Sparkle's H say? My wife is driving by in her car to see if I'm here with our kids. Come lock her up."

And then what? The cops will say, Unless you have a PO, it's a civil matter. Is she disturbing the peace? Is she threatening you physically. No and no? Then get a lawyer and take care of this in family court.

I can imagine if you got out of your car and came to the door it could become a scene, and then things can go terribly wrong. But trying to figure out if your kids are ok? Seems like a go to me.

Sparkle, ask your L what's best. The other thing to consider is how things might escalate if he saw you. I had to consider that when N/BPDx had S11 overnight during his psychotic break.

Not fun what you're going through right now. Let us know how you're doing when you can.

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« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2013, 11:04:25 PM »

I agree with FD and driving past sounds like a bad idea on so many levels. N/BPDxh to this day takes out temp OOP against me to tie up court time and punish me. They never stick, but meanwhile, I have to deal with having a temp order against me and being constantly worried that he is trying to set me up for a breach. It's madness, and yet the court system thrives on the contention. It's hard to wait for your day in court to prove your innocence.

I say avoid driving past, but maybe have a friend do it on your behalf if you really need to know. Can you see anything from the front anyway? I had the kids for 9 months whilst N/BPDxh was prevented from access and I certainly didn't let the kids sit in the windows or play on the front lawn. He is HIDING them so I doubt you would see anything. I used to park my car in my parents garage and the neighbours garage just to be sure. He is probably being very careful as he can't keep them from you without a custody or OOP order either.
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« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2013, 11:38:18 PM »

Sparkle13 would have to press charges.

I think this is a misunderstanding of how the system works, at least where I live.

The victim of a crime cannot "press charges".  You report the crime, and the police may make an arrest and charge the person with a crime.  Or sometimes it's the prosecutor who files the charges.

A victim cannot decide whether or not the person will be charged.  The victim is a witness.

(I think the idea that the victim can "press charges" comes from TV... .   )

I think FD is probably right in saying that Sparkle's husband was not charged with a crime because of how things happened at the time.  If a woman calls 911 and says, "My husband attacked me and I think my wrist is broken", where I live, he's going to jail, and he will be charged with a crime.  But if she first files an Order Of Protection, and they are still living together, and then a few days later she tells the police that he broke her wrist, that may not be treated the same way.

Your lawyer might be able to explain exactly how it works where you live.

One possibility now is to file civil charges - not criminal.  Civil charges do not involve the police or a prosecutor - you make the decision what to accuse your husband of, and the burden of proof is lower - "a predominance of the evidence" not "proof beyond reasonable doubt".  It probably won't lead to jail - maybe a fine or an order of protection - but it might be a practical way to hold him accountable, and to get what happened on record.  It could also be an opportunity to make him testify under oath, and if possible show that he is lying;  that transcript could be useful in the divorce trial later.
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« Reply #98 on: April 03, 2013, 12:03:41 AM »

Staff only

Hi everyone-

We've gone beyond our four page limit so we have to lock this up.  Sparkle its a good time to start another thread on these new developments. 

Thanks to all for participating.
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