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Author Topic: Am I wrong?  (Read 811 times)
Defeated

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« on: April 08, 2013, 06:11:11 PM »

This will be my third attempt at posting, let's see if I can do it this time without breaking down.

I won't start at the beginning because that would take too long.  However, please don't hesitate to ask me any questions that you may have upon reading this becasue I am at a total loss, and the last of my friends wrote me off years ago thanks to my daughter.

About three and a half years ago, my daughter was caught selling a gun, bullets, and oxycontin to an undercover state trooper, and it was all on video.  She wasn't arrested until three months later when the local and state police, along with the FBI, raided her apartment.  She was apparently selling drugs out of her apartment as well.

She was held without bail for a month and a half.  I couldn't even bring myself to visit her, I think that it would have killed me.  She was finally realeased on $30K bond, but she had to move back in with us, and she was to be on home confinement (which we had to pay for) indefinitely, which turned out to be about three months.

As if I weren't already dreading her trial, which had yet to begin, her first day off of home confinement, she called me at the office screaming that if I did not go get her, she was going to "run-punch this *ucking cop."  I almost had a heart attack.  When I got there, she was going off on him, and taking things out of her car and smashing them on the ground... .   her stereo included.  All because she got mad about something and punched her windshield, shattering it.  He had to pull her over.

Why she wasn't arrested, I have no idea.  Perhaps it was my apologizing profusely.  The officer pulled me aside and asked if she were going to hurt me if he released her to me.  You know, I really didn't know, but of course I said that she would be fine.

Then her trial began.  She was potentially looking at 45 years, and I was a wreck.  I lost a ton of weight.  I stopped eating and sleeping.  All I could do was cry... .   and then I almost lost my job of 15 years.  I had to pull myself together.  I am so medicated right now that I am surprised that I can function at work, but I'm still employed.

So, realizing that I was grasping at straws, but knowing that I had nothing else to lose, I decided to write the judge a letter the day before her sentencing.  Finally.  I mean, her trial only lasted a year and a half.  Anyway, I told the judge that while I would love to be able to beg for leniency, I couldn't because I knew that what she had done was wrong, and I understood that he had a job to do.  However, I also had a job to do, and that was to love my daughter unconditionally.  I finished by telling him that he was my last hope... .   literally, and how I had tried many many times to get her help, but that it was always the same... .   they couldn't treat her simply because I wanted them to, and I asked that whatever he sentenced he to, to please include mandated counseling.

I don't know i it was my letter or what, but he gave her no jail time.  She was sentenced to five years, but he suspended itand placed her on supervised (she has to check in with her PO every day) probation for five years.  She was also ordered to perform 1200 hours of community service, complete a substance abuse program, and she was to attend three mental health sessions a week and "she would cooperate."  

... .   and we would pay for everything, of course.  

She started going to this clinic and was diagnosed with numerous conditions, including BD.  Not to make light of BD, but I knew in my heart that it was more serious than that.

Then one night, she was at a housing complex, where a friend of hers lived.  She got into an argument outside with the older brother of another friend of hers.  She punched him the face.  Someone called the police.  When they pulled up, they saw him kicking her car so he was arrested.  That night, he hung himself in his cell.  I was absolutely heartbroken for his poor family.  

My daughter's reaction was hysterical laughter.  She called all of her friends bragging and laughing, and I have to tell you, chills went down my spine.

Not long after that, she was dating another waste of space.  That is, until he punched her in the face while sitting at the dining room table.  In front of my husband.  My daughter's face was busted open and her nose was broken.  My husband, who naturally flew over the table at him, was stabbed five times with his own screwdriver (he's fine, it wasn't life-threatening, just required some stitches).

Supporting her and her dog, along wiith the lousy economy, resulted in the loss of our home.  Let me tell you something, finding a place to rent is extremely difficult.  First of all, my husband and I had to get rid of our dogs.  My daughter said if we made her get rid of her dog, a pitbull, she would never forgive us.

So, now I had to find a place to rent, that didn't do background checks, and that allowed pitbulls.  It wasn't happening.  I would have had better luck renting if I were a leper.

I still feel guilty about this, and I know that it was wrong, so please don't judge me... .   I live with it every day.  I lied and said that my daughter was 17 so they couldn't do a background check on her, and I researched different dog breeds online until I found one that I thought Malaki could pass for.  So, for the purpose of us having a roof over our heads, he is now an American Bulldog mix.  We even paid the vet that neutered him $200 more to see that his records were those of an American Bulldog mix.

Here we are today.  She is 24 years old, has completed two of her five years probation, has completed her substance abuse class, and has begun couunseling and medication.  

On Friday, she also told us that she is pregnant.  The father is 37, on his second marriage, and already has several children.  He and my daughter have already broken up as well.  I know that she took her meds until he found out that she was pregnant.  She still smokes pot all day, and God forgive me, it's the only time that she is even remotely resembles normal.  She has no income, hates me with a passion, and wants us to stand by her while she has this baby.  She can't even take care of herself.  This is not a puppy that we are talking about.

We told her that she was not mentally stable enough to handle a baby.  I also showed her a study that was done at the U of WA, which found that smoking pot while pregnant can, among other things, mimick Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.  She told us to * off, she was keeping it and give a *uck what we thought.  So we told her that if she could be so selfish that she would risk bringing a baby into this world that may or may not be healthy, she could do it elsewhere because we have already raised our kids, and we should not have to raise another.  My husband and I aren't even fifty yet.  We should be enjoying ourselves at this time in our llives, and we are miserable.

Unfortunately, when she asked her PO if she could move, he said "no."  Apparently, another stipulation of her probation is that she live with us as the judge deemed her incapable of living alone since that was when she got into all of the trouble.

She is almost ten weeks pregnant now, we believe.  So we asked her again today if she had made an appointment, and she went wild.  If you could see the threats and the way she talked to me in text messages, your hair would curl.

Are we wrong?

Defeated
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 09:54:21 PM »

Hello Defeated   Welcome

I'm so sorry for all you've been through with your daughter.     This is truly a heartbreaking story. I completely understand you feeling defeated. We have many, many mom"s here who will all understand and have some helpful insight for you. You have come to the right place.

Let's start right here: What can a parent do?

Have you considered a therapist for support for yourself with what you're up against?
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“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” ~Jacob M. Braude
Being Mindful
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 10:04:32 PM »

Hello Defeated,

My heart is breaking for you. You have been through some enormous painful, difficult times. I'm so sorry. The good news is that you have found us. We are like family here... .   helping each other cope and learning skills to help ourselves and our relationships with our BPD loved ones.

I too am the mom to a daughter (20) who has BPD. To say it is difficult is an understatement. We only wish for some tiny bit of normal or typical and yet rarely if ever do we get to see it. It breaks our hearts.

So, I'm glad you are here. We are here to help you and support you. You are not alone.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

Do you have other children?

Looking forward to getting to know you better and learning how we can help.

Being Mindful
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 10:13:02 PM »

Defeated – massive hug for you – you and DH (dear husband) have been through a lot.

We don’t judge anyone’s actions here at bpdfamily – while hundreds of our members have been where you are, our BPD kids are uniquely different. Trust me that you are not alone and we all understand how heart breaking this must be.

Are you wrong? – nothing wrong with wanting the best for your daughter Defeated – any of our Mums and Dads on this board would want their child to be healthy and happy. What it does do is impact on everyone involved and we sometimes can feel we are at fault - I would imagine its hard to get things just right so she doesn't rage - walking on eggshells is exhausting - it doesn't make you wrong.

You have only just landed at bpdfamily.com and there is much to process. While your situation is very complex, the one dynamic that bpdfamily can help with is the ensuring you and DH are on the same page in how to get through this difficult time and how to best communicate with your DD (dear daughter).

We sometimes need to step back and re-assess how we respond. Learning some new communication tools to not escalate situations will be helpful as well as knowing at what stage we need to give time out (leave the situation before it escalates).

It can get better - in order for this to happen - please look after yourself! You also matter.

CM

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 10:19:08 PM »

Hey Defeated!  Welcome

Im so sorry, your story is indeed heart-breaking and I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

I have no experience whatsoever on raising a BPD child, but what came to my mind is: how are your other kids dealing with the situation? Cause I believe all your care and attention (and ur husband´s) are drawn to your daughter, so that maybe created some conflict.

This site is very helpful, people here are very caring and I hope you find  here what you look for. Stard by reading the material suggested. And please read about boundaries. I cant help thinking that somehow she knows her parents are always there for her, to clean the mess... .   But there should be limits, for everybody else´s mental health and peace of mind.

Take care of yourself!   
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 10:29:44 PM »

Hi Defeated,

I am so glad you found us here. There are many here, moms, grandmas and stepmoms of children with BPD. I'm one of them too. I have 6 kids. Yours mine and ours... .   I'll spare you all details... .   But my exH has BPd and my H's exW has BPD... .   And now one of my kids, SS 10 looks to be heading in that direction of BPD.

You will find other moms here who are dealing with similar seemingly unbelievable stories about their kids with BPD.

We are here for you.

 

Mamachelle


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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 10:42:49 PM »

Hello Defeated,

So sad to read about the troubled journey you have traveled with your daughter all these many years.  The wear and tear on you is surely tremendous.  It is important to have support for yourself and the rest of your family while you all try to support your daughter.  Believe it or not defeated, the best thing you can do for your d is to take care of yourself, your marriage.  What would your d benefit if her support system (family) falls apart?

You have found a soft place to land here.  

Here you will get the support and be able to learn how to get out of the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) so that you can make wisemind decisions for your own life and help your d help herself.  It will take time and committment to learn the skills and we will be here with you all the while.

I look forward to seeing you back soon.  Btw... .   I also have a daughter, 16 diagnosed w/emerging BPD at age 12.  Her BPD traits are in remission for the last 2 years. There is hope for all of you.

 

lbjnltx 
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Defeated

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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 09:29:31 AM »

Hi suzn:

Have I considered a therapist?  Yes.  I think I mentioned that I almost lost my job because I "was too emotional."  The truth is that at one time, my HR manager and I were very good friends, and it just so happened that her cousin managed the supermarket where my daughter worked (until her temper got in the way).  Once I found this out, I begged her not to mention anything about my daughter to her cousin.  If my daughter were to know that I knew anyone or anything about where she worked, she would flip out.

So, when my daughter called me at the office one day demanding to know who the **** I knew that she worked with, I was speechless.  No, I was more than that.  I was absolutely livid.  I cut all ties with my HR manager right then.  I would have confronted her, but I knew that she would deny it, and honestly, I didn't know what I would do to her.  I guess never having children of her own, she didn't fully understand the ramifications of what she had done.  My daughter never trusted me again.

So, when I was called into HR, I assumed that I was going to be told that I needed to snap out of it, but instead, she asked me why I didn't pay my respects when her mother died, I looked her in the face and said "because I don't like you, and that would have made me a hyprocrite.  The look on her face told me that my job was in jeopardy and I got into counseling immediately.  I can usually hold it together now, but only because I'm taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Klonopin, Seroquel, and three different blood pressure medications.  Unfortunately, I still hate my life... .   the meds don't help with that. 

I stopped seeing my therapist when she told me that it was time to let my daughter go.  Another one that's never had kids yet is so quick to tell me to cut ties with her.  No thanks.  Now I just go monthly for my meds.
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 09:50:41 AM »

Hello Being Mindful:

I really wish that I could be as optimistic as you, but I just don't have the energy.

I really don't take care of myself.  I go to work early, work late, and go right to my room when I get home.  Lately, or at least since we learned of the pregnancy, I cry myself to sleep most nights.  Even before the preganancy, however, I would cry myself to sleep trying to figure out what I could have possibly done to make her hate me so much.  Her father, on the other hand, she absolutely worships.  Yes, she still calls him a loser, etc. but at the same time, she will tell you that he is her best friend and all she needs.

I have a son that is 30.  The day the court released her to home confinement, he moved out.  She hates him too.  She even stabbed him with a pencil once.  It broke off in his arm and they had to cut it out.  He and I used to be very close, but I feel as though I'm losing him too.  At first, he didn't come around becasue he can't stand the way she treats me.  He's worked for AAA for almost nine years now.  He owns his own home, is getting married in October.  Every day, I can feel myself slipping lower and lower on his list of priorities and it hurts like hell.
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Defeated

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 10:22:36 AM »

Hi Clearmind:

Believe me, until now I was totally against abortion.  However, I can't see bringing a baby into this world that may or may not be healthy.  I think it's extremely selfish to even consider such a thing.  If she were mentally stable, and I thought that she could care for a baby, that would be one thing, but she can't barely care for herself or her dog.  For some reason, her dog adores me, and even that makes her mad.  If she is going out and he stays by me because he doesn't want to go, she'll beat him.  I know that it sounds terrible, but I actually push him away just so she won't have a reason to hit him.

Communicating with her is not easy.  Hell, I've tried everything but smoke signals... .   she still goes nuts, and God forbid if I ask her anything personal.  She doesn't want me talking to her friends, who all love me, or knowing any of her business.  This makes it hard because I've always done things behind the scenes for her.  If she knew, I wouldn't put it past her to hit me.  Why not?  She took a Bacardi bottle and smashed in her best friend's face just because they argued.

What I mean by "behind the scenes" is like with her community service, for instance.  From what she told me, she was clashing with the gentleman at the church where she does her community service and I was afraid that they were going to let her go.  Fortunately, I was able to find him online and gave him a call one morning to explain about her mood swings, etc.  He was actually glad that I called because he said that now things made sense.

Another time, I overheard her telling a friend that she was going to have her counselor prescribe Adderall.  Since I know that she won't take it, I knew that she was going to sell it.  So I called the clinic.  At first, they tried to give me the HIPAA speach until I told them that I sell insurance for a living and that I probably know more about HIPAA than they did, and I was not asking for information, I was giving them some useful information, which was not to prescribe her anything that had any kind of street value because she would sell it.

If she ever knew that I had done that, she would kill me.

Just like when she was in high school.  I would no sooner bring her back to school following yet another suspension, and the school would call to tell me to go and get her because she had been suspended again.  I couln't even tell you how many times she was suspended... .   countless.  She spent three years in the 9th grade.  Why she isn't certified to teach it yet, is beyond me.  She was expelled from two different high schools, but thanks to her teachers and I keeping in constant contact via email and phone, without her knowing of course, she finally managed to graduate high school at the age of 21, and mark my words, I will be buried with that diploma... .   I earned it.

The problem now is that she is going to another therapist, and I have no idea who... .   BTW, she has said that she will have the abortion, provided that her father will go with her, but I am dead to her.  Even worse, she said that she is going to tell the landlord that I lied to him, as if the guilt wasn't already eating away at me.  She doesn't stop to think that she won't only be hurting me, but she'll also be hurting herself and her dog.

I just don't know anymore.
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Defeated

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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 06:40:46 PM »

Hi lbjnltx:

Thank you for the kind words, but I really don't see things getting any better.  My husband just told me that she had a counseling session today, and her counselor said that she was going to recommend to her PO that she spent some time in the hospital.  She is afraid that my daughter is just going to blow and something bad will happen.

I will feel so guilty is they put in the hospital because of me.  Maybe I shouldn't have pushed the abortion, but I'm telling you, she would end up hurting that baby.  Of course, it doesn't help that everything, it doesn't matter what, is always my fault.  Knowing her, she is playing her counselor, making me look bad so that she will recommend to her PO that she be allowed to leave here.

I honestly don't know which hurts more, the guilt about everything, or the fact that she hates me so much.  all I think about is what did I do?  What could I have done better?

I guess she made the appointment at planned parenthood for friday... .   I just hope that I don't cave because in my heart, I know this is the right thing, God forgive me.
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 12:13:54 AM »

Defeated - My heart goes out to you. Sounds like you are drowning and it is the weight of your D's choices that keeps you under. It is so hard to have this all-consuming love for our struggling young adult child, and I have also clung to the belief that I can find the ways to protect her from all the violence and bad choices. Such a hard lesson to come to understand that I was the victim so often, and that there are ways to step out of that loop.

There is so much fear - what about her being in hospital bothers you the most? Would this be a long-term treatment plan for her safety? There is so much risk with her violent history.

My DD has been pregnant 5 times that I am aware of, 3 abortions and 2 children. My dh and I are raising our gd7 - and this has been a difficult path for me being torn between protecting gd and encouraging DD. I have left the choices up to my DD. When she chose to have our gs5, we chose to stay out of the way as much as possible. We refused to take the child when DD was threatening to kill herself -- he ended up in foster care at 5 months and was adopted by the foster parents at age 2. He is a happy, healthy boy - I have facebook access to their family (DD does not). I know that DD smoked pot, drank, and did cocaine during this pregnancy. She was very ambivalent about keeping the child or placing him for adoption. Please, please do not beat yourself up so badly about your part in encouraging your D to make this appointment. She is the one calling -- not you. She is the one they will council about this decision, not you. Can you accept that you have done all you can with this path and it is up to your DD to make the ultimate decision? This is so very very hard.

I have also left therapists that advised me to get entirely out of my D's life. I tried when I had enough and saw it was harmful for my gd, age 4 at the time. We evicted her, even though she was on probation for a DUI. We stopped paying her probation costs, she was not doing her classes, community service and other requirements. It took several months, she eventaully served some jail time. She is again on probation. I too wrote a letter to the judge before sentincing on this DUI - under the influence of pot this time. She did 45 days home detention - we paid as well. She stopped doing her probation requirements in Januray and was warned that she had her last warning. I expect her PO to revoke her in two weeks and she will be going to jail for a year. This is so hard for me - I have to accept that she is the one acting this out. The only way she will be able to choose to get better is to experience the results of her choices - her mental illness does not excuse her actions.

I have included the link to a path to learn about this illness, how it impacts your D and your family. And there are ways to start making things better. If you don't take care of yourself, then you will not be there in any form for you D. Please take a look at this link. It is a lot - try not to get overwhelmed. Look at the ones that seem to connect with your situation. The information here saved me. Maybe it can help you.

"What can a parent do"   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114267.0#lastPost

If this link is just too overwhelming, please let us know. Perhaps there are other ways to support you to not drown.

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

qcr  
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 01:18:50 AM »

defeated, you are not alone. You have been through so much hurt and pain and worry and you have been treated unfairly. It is enough to make anyone angry with the world.

defeated, my dd (dear daughter) is 32. She blames me for a lifetime of physical and emotional cruelty and my dh (dear husband) she accuses of standing by and letting it happen. Of course it is not true. It was so deeply hurtful at the time, but slowly I have learnt more about BPD and the tools and techniques that can help me. It was because of the wonderful people here who supported me and guided me through my dark times, that I feel at ease with what life has dealt me today.

deafeated, if you can afford us a little patience, I feel that we here could support and guide you through the dark times you have now. Yours is a bitter experience indeed.

There is much to learn from articles and so forth here. While I think you might need to take it easy, perhaps you could explore the site a little and see what it can offer you. But most important is posting on the board here, please stay in touch with us and allow us to be here for you.

Is there anything in particular you think we could help you with?

Cheers,

Vivek        

ps yep the first rule here is to take care of yourself... .  
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 07:07:55 PM »

Hi qcarolr:

For a minute there, I thought I was reading my own post.  Talk about similarities.

I know that this isn't going to make sense, but I'm afraid that if they hospitalize her, she will hurt either herself or someone else.  That's why the hospiital, I know, but I'm telling you, when she gets angry, she's like an animal.

I don't know much about the hospital, just that it's a psychiatric hospital.  How long she would have to stay, I have no idea, but I'm sure that whatever it is, it's my fault. 

As for the abortion, I could see no other way.  If she were to keep it, it might be born sickly, which isn't fair to an innocent child.  Healthy or sick, the bottom line is that she can't even take care of her dog... .   I do.  When she got bored, met another loser, violated her probation and ended up back in jail for the remainder of her sentence, guess what would happen with the baby?  I would take it.  I wouldn't even hesitate.  My fear, however, is that raising her child would cause me to feel resentment for my daughter.  By not allowing her to live with us, should she keep the baby, I'm avoiding putting myself in that situation.

Now, keep in mind that she is a pathological liar, but she claims to have asked her probation officer if she could move, and he supposedly said that it was court-ordered that she live with us as the judge had deemed her incapable of living alone.  Therefore, I (not my husband - that said it first - and I) am forcing her to have an abortion.  Her appointment is Friday night at $625.00, and I am forbidden from accompanying her.  Her exact words were "I'll take care of it with my father.  You're dead to me."  She felt that by having a baby, she could prove to us that she could do it.  When she went from talking about babies to talking about puppies, I don't know, but you don't experiment with a baby.

I'm never going to understand her.  She has almost crippling social anxiety so she never goes anywhere alone.  She will literally drive two towns away to pick up her girlfriend (in a wheelchair) just to bring her back here whenever she bas to go anywhere... . and then bring her home again.  Yet, she has no problem verbally attacking (sometimes physically) a complete stranger that looks at her funny.  The worst part is that the poor stranger didn't even stand a chance.  My daughter is practically covered from head to toe with tattoos and body piercings.  How are you supposed to look at her?

Another thing, she hates drawing attention to herself.  Her chest starts to hurt, and she sweats profusely whenever someone she doesn't know looks at her.  I can see where she might think the fact that she is tattooed and pierced from head to toe won't draw attention to herself.

There have actually been times when we would be in the middle of a conversation and, in mid-sentence, she would start talking about something completely unrelated, yet she acted as though the subject had never been changed.  Other times, I could say something and she would completely and immediately disagree with me,... . Only to turn around and repeat what I had said like it was her idea.

A couple of times, she actually had me thinking that I was losing my mind.  No way could someone be that far gone... .   it had to be me.

Oh well, enough rambling for now.

Thank you all again for your support.

-Defeated
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 07:17:36 PM »

Hi Vivek :

I love your "guidance" and "support" ideas, but I'm afraid that after Friday, there will be no point, as by then I will have lost the battle... .   and a whole lot more.

-Defeated
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 08:05:45 PM »

I know that this isn't going to make sense, but I'm afraid that if they hospitalize her, she will hurt either herself or someone else.  That's why the hospital, I know, but I'm telling you, when she gets angry, she's like an animal.

Your fear makes sense Defeated. If she hurts herself or hurts someone else that will be a flag to the therapists on staff at a psychiatric hospital . Meaning, she may get the attention she needs. What if... .   there's a therapist there that can reach her and help her? The odds of this happening may better than zero. What if... . you can take a break, just for a bit, and allow these professionals to care for her?

I think I would be comfortable with the blame if there's a chance she could get some help, she's blaming you anyway right now right?
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 08:10:27 PM »

I love your "guidance" and "support" ideas, but I'm afraid that after Friday, there will be no point, as by then I will have lost the battle... .   and a whole lot more.

Dear defeated,

Can you explain to me what you mean please? I am worried for you.

Cheers,

Vivek      
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 11:11:43 PM »

I don't know much about the hospital, just that it's a psychiatric hospital.  How long she would have to stay, I have no idea, but I'm sure that whatever it is, it's my fault. 

Yes, in your D's projections of her emotionally dysregulated state you are always to blame. You are her scapegoat - the 'black' person in her life. This is a classic feature of BPD - seeing the world in black and white. What makes you believe her - do you truly believe that it is your fault that she has mental illness and needs the safety of a psych hospital. They do know how to deal with this potential violence. They will know of her record before they accept her for admission. This will be a court ordered admission.

My concerns center on how much you take on 100% of the responsibility for your D's actions. Yes, maybe we did not understand our child and yes maybe we could have been more validting of them. You did the absolute best you could as her parent - just maybe she this mental illness was present in her from a very young age, and she was not available to your good parenting. This is not your fault - her mental state is not your fault - her violence is not your fault.

It is so hard to accept that we are powerless to change or control our children - esp our adult children. I still struggle with this. It is hard for me to hear it when others show their concerns for me and ask me how I am taking care of myself. I want to scream back at them "this is not about me, it is about my D". It has taken a long time for me to understand that only by my stepping back and allowing my D to suffer her own pain will she have any chance of getting better. Not 'cured', but better able to be responsible for her own life.

I hope you can find the strength and courage to know how much I care about you, and can hear the message I am trying to give you from a place of deep compassion and understanding for your situation. This is hard. I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Let us know how you are doing.

And I get the "not husband" part too. My dh's choice is to withdraw and deny.

qcr  
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 11:31:25 PM »

Dear Defeated,

Your name breaks my heart and your entire story reflects that. Honestly when I read your story I ached for you. The only thing that comes to mind is the story of my mother and the choice I had to make. Growing up I had no idea what my mother suffered from but all I knew was that she was very very sick. She was utterly destructive to everyone who got within her periphery. I never saw anything like it until I met my ex-uBPD. I was raised with a a great deal of abuse, rejection, neglect and constant attacks. It seemed all I could do growing up was to keep out of her way and just pray that she wouldn't come looking for me.

When I was 5 years old I found her almost dead. She tried to commit suicide. I found her again when I was 8. She lived and her illness raged and I watched as she destroyed my father's life. My father was an amazing man, loving, compassionate and noble of heart. He loved her with all his heart even though she was killing him. I now understand that she was BPD and utterly psychotic. It became clear to me that the only chance I had in life was to get away from her so I left home when I was young and forged my own path far far away from her and everyone in my small family. In this way I gave myself the only chance I knew how to.

I never regretted what I decided because to me there wasn't an option. At 17 she tried to kill me with a butcher knife and I went flying through a screen door, landed down the concrete stairs where there just happened to be a police car driving by. She was charged and I left at that point. I know for me it was mandatory to separate from the thing that was trying to destroy me and ruining my life. I can't speak for anyone else because having a child is a completely different thing. Your situation is utterly heart wrenching and filled with conflicting emotions and thoughts.

I wish the way was lit up for you but only you and your husband can come to that crossroads. You have gone and continue to go through hell and yet you are the epitome of loving parents. The question I ask in all of this (my life as well) is how much can we help or change a person who is so ill and seemingly rebellious not because they want to be but simply because they are too sick to know or do otherwise?

You are in my prayers.
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2013, 12:32:30 PM »

This must be a nightmare for you It's so hard when you love someone unconditionally, yet at some instinctive level you are aware that they are slowly destroying everything that makes you the person you are. Fear of what that person will do paralyzes you, and draws you into their world to such an extent that you see what they see, almost become them or are made to feel like you are the problem or the crazy one.

My question for you is the same question I had to ask myself about my relationship with my BPD son. When will it be enough? What would I have to do to make this son of mine understand that I love him, and want to help him? How can I fill that black void of his need? The answer for me, was I couldn't. He even told me that, he said I could kill myself in front of him and he'd just think it was the usual thing of me 'making it all about me'. and that's the sad truth. I had to realize that I was in danger of losing myself and dying from the stress and I realized I didn't want to do that and that I deserved more. I still love my son unconditionally, but I'm not prepared to let him kill me and I'm not prepared to let him take the rest of my family down with him. He's damaged us enough and despite what he believes, we deserve a decent life too.

And so do you.

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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 04:44:40 PM »

It is just so unbelieveable how so many of our situations and children with BPD are so similar!  Kate4Queen, what you say about them telling us that it is always about us, when in reality it has always been "all about them".  I am where you are in reaching a point where it is enough and recognizing that I can't fix my dd35. 

Defeated - my heart goes out to you and your situation!  I have to believe that no matter what the outcome of you dd's pregnancy was, you would have been blamed in the end.  Please take care of yourself - as everyone is advising - and know that you are doing the best you can in such a difficult situation.  I think the one thing that my dd is best at is causing me to doubt myself and second guess everything I have ever done... .   what a shame when they have that much power over others.  Letting go and acceptance are the beginning of taking back our lives.  Take care and know there are so many people here caring about you!  
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 05:35:49 PM »

Dear Defeated,

I am praying for you that you can take a deep breath and envelope yourself with the caring parents here. We understand your pain, we have lived it too. All of us have similar stories of horrible things that our kids have chosen to do and horrible things they have done to us.

I pray that you can hear us and take in the love, care and encouragement we have for you.

I hear how defeated you feel and how much pain you are in. Let us carry you Defeated.

I also hear your strong defenses and that it seems like there is nothing left, or that nothing can help or change. Give us a chance, will you Defeated? We can do this with you. You are not alone.

Being Mindful
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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 05:46:18 PM »

Oh my God, Kate, you have no idea how much better I feel to know that someone else out there began to question her own sanity as well.  I honestly thought that I was losing it.  She keeps telling me that I am bipolar,  Every day.  Numerous times a day.

What she tells her friends and people outside, probably even her probation officer, is that she is the way she is because I did drugs while she was pregnant.  Of course, I didn't, but maybe I should have.

I'm not quite sure what is going on with me these days.  I can be at work or home, it doesn't matter, suddenly I will remember something from years ago that should have been a clue  I keep saying that she began acting out in the 7tj grade, but I'm remembering things from before then.  I just didn't remember them.  I remember one time in particular... .   I was walking across my front lawn and I tripped over a jellibeans block and fell.  Well, when I fell, it was really strange.  It was more like doing the "squat" part of a squat trust.  You know, like we all had to do in gym and hated it.  So, I "squatted" so hard and fast that, while I was able to break my fall with my hands so I didn't completely fall to the ground, but as soon as I went down, I heard and felt my leg snap.

Anyway, I remember my husband and the guy across the street helping me hop to the car.  My daughter opens up the back door and asks where we are going.  My husband said that I had broken my leg and we had to go to the hospital, to which she responded with "Great, no dinner. "  Then she looked at me and said "I hate you."  She was probably around ten at the time.  I also remember how much her reaction hurt me at the time.

You said something else that struck me, well, I guess your son did.  I must hear, at least once a day, every day, "Here she goes, making it all about herself again," or "Ma, when are you going to realize that not everything is about you.  I hate to break iit to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you, so get over yourself."  For a little while, I was almost convinced that I was doing that too.  I mean, she said it SO often, what was I supposed to think?

My son says that she is going to be the death of me, that's she is going to be the reason for my death.  I'm on just about every damn pill in the world, including three for blood pressure.   I just don't think that there is much more that I can do.  In my heart though, I know that he is right.  I keep thinking that I could have a heart attack or stroke any day.  It wouldn't surprise me.

I know that there have been times that I've gone to take a sleeping pill, and the next thing I know, I've poured the entire bottle into my hand.  It certainly couldn't hurt any more than my life does.  I swear, I am not suicidal, it's just something odd that happens sometimes.

I don't know if she doesn't remember, or just doesn't want to talk about it, but when she was young, she had several strongly traumatic experiences.  If she doesn't remember, frankly, I don't want her to.  Then I think that if she does remember and will just open up to her therapist, maybe she can get better.

Her appointment for the abortion is tomorrow.  She had my husband make it very clear to me that I am not wanted there, am actually forbidden from accompanying her.  She wants her father and a very good mutual friend of theirs to accompany her.  I know that she truly believes that I don't care what she is going to go through tomorrow.  If I told her that just the thought of what she was going to go through tomorrow made me want to tear my own heart out, she wouldn't believe me.  So I'm thinking that after work tomorrow, I will go to my son's house for the night, or two.  I just fear that seeing me will make her extremely angry, and I don't want to do that.

So, you probably already know the answer to your question, but let's compare notes, shall we?  My head knows that it has been "enough" for a long time.  That if I continue this way, I will just end up killing myself.  Unfortunately, my heart thinks that some day, I will be able to help her, and if I don't keep trying, I'll always wonder what might have happened.

-Defeated
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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 06:04:31 PM »

ahh defeated, I am so glad you are with us. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and once you are past these few days, perhaps we can begin walking through this tunnel of darkness you are in and towards some light.

You are probably feeling guilty and sad and frustrated and all mixed up. This is a sad time for you, and so hurtful too. Know however that here no-one judges you and we are all here to support you.

No-one wants to have an abortion, but it is a fact of life for many. It is sad, but the alternative is worse. And as was said, no matter what you do, it will be your fault, if your daughter wants it to be that way. Know however, that your daughter made the choice to become pregnant, she has made the choice to abort. You did not become pregnant, you are not going to the clinic. It is not your fault. In fact, it is not the right way to look at it as someone's fault, that is a very negative way to think. It is a choice that has been made and acted upon. Your dd is acting responsibly by doing this. She is taking responsibility for her actions with this decision. Don't let her or anyone blame you.

We are all worried for you. You are hurting so much. There is much that you can do in time, to ease that hurt and feel better. For the moment you are so upset it is unlikely that you can see clearly. But when this has passed we can explore what you can do to take better care of your self so you can be there for the ones you love. Please stay with us and let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Vivek      
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2013, 02:18:10 PM »

Defeated, one of the best things about this place is that you realize you are not the only one who is dealing with these terribly traumatic issues.

Please take care of yourself, you've been living in her distorted world for so long that you can't see yourself anymore. Loving her but losing yourself isn't right, you know that.

I'll tell you something, sort of a BPD funny, after seriously thinking I was going to have a heart attack because of the stress my son put me under, and having all the tests, trying meds, etc etc, do you know the one thing that made me decide not to die? The thought that even at my funeral my son would stand there and make it all about him... .   I just couldn't let him beat me like that. You deserve more, you deserve to live your life. We've been there, we can help you through this pain.

big hugs lady.
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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 05:11:57 PM »

So, at 7:00 this morning, she swung open my bedroom door and said "Oh, you're awake.  You mean, you slept last niight?"  I said "not really," and she said "Oh, I figured it was just me that couldn't sleep." 

I let it go and continued to get ready for work.

Now she is talking to her dog, Malaki.  "Kiki, mommy will be home soon, I just have something to do because someone can't let me lead my own ******* life."  A few minutes later, "Kiki, mommy will be home soon, if I wake up again."  I'm crying now, but she doesn't know.  "Kiki, maybe she'll be happy and I won't wake up," and she left.

Her appointment was at 9:30 so I expected to hear from my husband not long after.  I had a couple of fires to put out as soon as I got to the office so that kept my mind occupied.  When my husnand called, it was 11:30.  Thank God I was busy because I would have been going crazy.  Then he said that they told him that it was going to be at least six or seven hours.  Six or seven hours?  It was gong too be a long day, or so I thought.

At 1:00, he called to say that she was home.  Apparently, they were concerned with how high her blood pressure was so they couldn't give her anything to make her sleep.  She was very much awake through the entire procedure.  At that moment, it felt as though my heart had been torn from chest without warning.  I couldn't even imagine what that must have been like.  I was absolutely horrified.  Fortunately, a co-worker heard me sniffling, and when saw that I was crying, she pulled me outside so I could pull myself together before anyone else noticed.

I was supposed to spend the night at my son's, but when he texted me to ask if I was going over there, I said "no."  I am so tired that I don't even know if this will make sense, but my reasoning for backing out was that I thought that if I went, she would think that she had gotten to me this morning (which she did) and she would just continue to push my buttons.  She can be absolutely relentless.

I hear that as soon as she got home, she trashed me all over Facebook.  She even said that I made her have an abortion.  I can't see her Facebook page because every time I read it, I got very upset so I blocked her and now neither of can the others page.  She knew that it would get back to me though.  What I will never understand is that okay, she's doing her damndest to make me look bad, but hello?  She's making herself look just as bad.  I mean, would you rather look like a b**** or a tramp?

I got home at about 5:15 and she was asleep on the couch.  I went straight to my room, pretty much like every other night, and here I sit.

God, I hope I get some sleep tonight.  This is nuts, going for days at a time without sleeping, and having to force yourself to at least appear as though you are fully functional while at work.  Trust me, I am not good an actress.

She just opned my bedroom door, looked at me for a minute, and closed it.  Now she is crying and yelling at someone on the phone.  Gotta go.  Be back soon.
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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2013, 11:39:38 PM »

you must be exhausted defeated. It has been a gruelling time for you,  I hope you can get some rest over the weekend.

I don't know if it will help, but it may be worth trying to recall that your daughter has a mental illness and is doing what she needs to in order to feel in control of her life and to ease the pain she feels. While she is responsible for her actions, she does have limited capacity to manage her emotions. She would definitely be hurting badly inside, she would be feeling overwhelming pain herself. No-one would choose to live the way she is living.

It is like a catch 22 situation, we can see the things that our dds need to do, but they can't; and to get better they need to change, but we can't do it for them or make them do it either. The only thing we can do is change ourselves.

So much hurt, so much anger, so much pain... .   all you can do at the moment is take care of yourself and try not to add to the anger, the hurt and the pain.

Cheers,

Vivek     
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« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2013, 09:26:42 AM »

Hi Defeated,

I just wanted to send you some   



I can relate to soo much of what you have written about your r/s with your dd. I like your humour. Keep it if you can as you will need it.

my advice would be to try an not lose yourself in your dd's illness. I know you will continue to be there for her but also  make wiith small strides to take your life back. i know it is harder to do when you are all living ontop of one another, but begin with small steps like going for a walk or meeting friends at first and you'll be suprised how much better you will begin to feel... .   and overtime it will even begin to feel pleasurable to do these things and not because you feel you are running away.

When i first found these boards I felt i was at my lowest ebb yet in my life. i was on the verge of tears most of the time and couldnt see that life would get any better.

My dd then 15 yo was totally out of control and did the opposite of everything i said which seemd to give her great pleasure. At one point I didnt know how much more of it I could take but somehow with a good support system i got through it.

Now my dd is 18yo has a baby and lives with her boyfriend who i woud describe as a loser but she cant bear to be apart from him.

i have to respect it and let go.

What she sees in him i will never know  but also cant bear to for them to be apart which I know that this is the push pull nature of her illness. I can see she is hurting but dont know how to reach her.

She is proving herself to be a good mom, but I wouldnt say that dd becoming a mom has brought us any closer which is a sad things to admit but it is what is, but seems like an uneasy truce between us now she doesnt live at home anymore and it is what i gladly  accept now. looking back on how bad things were for a while I  have to accept that is the way things will continue until she decides to get the help she needs

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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2013, 11:24:51 AM »

I truly hope that you are right in that keeping my sense of humor will help, because here it is almost noon, and she is still screaming on the phone aboout how her mother wouldn't even go with her, but her father took time off from work to be there for her.  She would not allow me to go!  I wanted to.

Oh, and let's not forget, "If she knew how to keep her legs closed, I wouldn't have had to go through this."  Of course, why didn't I think of that?

I wasn't considering changing my name, but "Scumbag" has a certain ring to it, I guess.

Even though I spent the night crying again, I couldn't stop thinking back to my sweet little 5-year old girl and the time that she had to use the restroom while we were out.  It was very rustic.  The entire restroom was made of logs, and when she came out, she said "Mommy, that bathroom was woodiful!"  However, I think my favorite is still when she accounced to her entire Kindergarten class that when mommies and daddies play, their butts get stuck together.  We used to breed dogs... .  

How quickly she went from being that sweet, beautiful, funny little girl - the light of my life - to the woman she is now.  The woman that would look at my death as a matter of convenience.

If my mother had loved me, she woud have had my tubes tied at birth.

it's going to be a long day.
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2013, 11:27:21 AM »

Defeated this was an extremely hard day for you.    

Now she is talking to her dog, Malaki.  "Kiki, mommy will be home soon, I just have something to do because someone can't let me lead my own ******* life."  A few minutes later, "Kiki, mommy will be home soon, if I wake up again."  I'm crying now, but she doesn't know.  "Kiki, maybe she'll be happy and I won't wake up," and she left.

If you look at this from a different angle, these are her fears and she's projecting them onto you. She is bullying you here. Have you ever heard the phrase "misery loves company?"  She knows she's not leading her own life, she is afraid she won't wake up. This is probably why her blood pressure was so high and they decided to keep her awake. Try to remind yourself she is home and she is safe.

I hear that as soon as she got home, she trashed me all over Facebook.  She even said that I made her have an abortion.  I can't see her Facebook page because every time I read it, I got very upset so I blocked her and now neither of can the others page.  She knew that it would get back to me though.  What I will never understand is that okay, she's doing her damndest to make me look bad, but hello?  She's making herself look just as bad.  I mean, would you rather look like a b**** or a tramp?

This is an excellent decision for your own self preservation Defeated. You have enough going on to add in pilling on more painful comments directed at you. What other people think, doesn't matter. This is your life and your daughter. Her lashing out isn't surprising, she is going to lash out, this has been her history. This is just one of the ways she copes. It's a maladaptive coping skill.

BPD behavior is fairly predictable. Taking some time to read the information/lessons/workshops here will help you understand her thinking better and it can help you redirect some of your own sensitivity to this very emotional situation. It's hard to emotionally distance yourself from your own child, however to help you gain back some of your strength, or so that you regain your own centeredness, it's important. It's almost impossible to "make things better" when everyone is highly emotionally charged. Does that make sense?

Taking a step back, taking a few deep breaths and saying to oneself "ok, I'm ok, she's ok, (meaning everyone is home and safe) what can I do to learn more about what's going on inside my daughter and myself?"  Not suggesting everyone just forget what has transpired over time but instead to find some calm. You are in control of finding that calm. You took a step here by blocking her on facebook, you know how seeing those comments affected you, so you already know you can do this, one step at a time.   
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2013, 02:24:29 PM »

Dear Defeated,  I am so sorry for your pain and your anquish.  We all her are very similar stories and our children it hurts to the core .  Im not sure I will ever understand the true hatred our d has for me I know it is a mental illness but... .   it still hurts your not alone and try and get some sleep maybe go to your sons house and get some rest . take care and tons of hugs mggt
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