The rescuer in me is unleashed, again

[David Dare]

I wasn't sure how to title this one exactly, but here are the details:

A few weeks ago I reconnected with an old love interest from about 15 years ago through Facebook.  It's been a while since I had to do any "head maintanance", so to speak, since I've pretty much recovered from my strange relationship with BPDex some 3-4 years ago, but I still wondered "Is this right? Should I do this?".

I'll do my best to sum up the emotional history here, because it is pertinent, but I tend to ramble, so bear with me.  Basically, we met online around 97/98 and hit it off pretty well.  Problem was, I was single, she wasn't.  She was engaged to the father of her daughter.  She expressed displeasure of her relationship, and I was a naive lonely rescuer.  I should also mention that she lived far away from me, at least 600 miles, so for a long time we didn't get to meet in person.

Then, one weekend, after over a year of emails, chatting, online flirting, we did meet, and it went pretty much as one would expect.  I would say we were in love which each other, but with the disclaimer that I was compromising a lot of myself, as per codepency issues.  There's no doubt that with different circumstances we would have taken a serious shot at a relationship.  But alas, the interest dwindled and died due to her unwillingness to leave her man, and mine to wait any longer.  It rocked me hard, took a while to get over.  I will honestly say right here and now that it's the closest thing I ever felt to a potentially fully compatible relationship, again, if she was actually available to enter one with to explore.  In other words, she was very important to me on a emotional level, maybe the most ever as far as gf/bf r/s's go.

After years and years I never forgot about her.  Every year or 2 I'd Google her name, or check Facebook.  Nothing came up until about a month ago when I tried and discovered her Facebook account.  Upon discovery, it was quite obvious that she was no longer married.  Her posts, and even her FB cover (the banner at the top of every FB profile page) transmitted clear as day to onlookers that she's on the mend from a relationship.  I wasn't sure if it was her now ex-husband, or someone else, but I at least knew she wasn't married (said so right in her cover).  But still, like I mentioned a few paragraphs above, I wondered if it was right.  In fact, it could go horribly wrong, but I had to reach out.

Sure enough, she's now single, and we had quite the emotional reunion.  Again, this all occured on FB and through texts, phone, etc.  When I say emotional, I don't necessarily mean in a good way.  Getting to that... .  

After the "Hey, how's it going.  Man, it's been so long" casual niceties, we got down to personal brass tax.  She basically admitted to me deep regret over her "poor choice" of sticking with her husband who left her for another woman 4 years ago, and told me she always loved me more than he.  I was blown away.  I mean, yes, they're just words, very easy to say over FB, etc, but I believe her.  She never lied to me in the past, and, for the record, I sense no BPD in retrospect, after having been educated and gone through that mill years later.  So, for the context of this post, BPD is not my concern.

In a way, I felt reassured, that I was right all along, that we were in love (then), but due to proximity issues and the pressure of satisfying a perceived happy mother/father/daughter home life she just couldn't bring herself to leave him.  I don't necessarily blame her.  It would have been risky, although I was willing to make the move. 

As the conversation transpired over the course of a few days, it finally reached a boiling point.  She didn't just admit her poor choice, but also that this reunion was impacting her deeply (as it was, I).  I don't remember the exact conversation, but a mental fork in the road presented itself:  I either had to digress back to casual conversation, or continue to get "emotional" with her.  I chose the latter.

Again, I don't remember the exact conversation, but I began insinuating my feelings for her.  They are strong, very strong.  But I'm not a fool.  I even thought to myself, ":)ave, you're a rescuer, and although the circumstances are different now, the emotional pieces (long lost lover reappears after many years, validating deep feelings of love that ended in pain long ago, the perfect storybook conclusion, if you will) are stacked in such a way that will trigger the beast".  After weighing it out, I decided that the risk was worth the potential payoff if things go well.

Now, here's where it gets weird.  After making this decision, and basically opening up full throttle, this deep warmth came over my body.  It was like someone tapped my head and poured warm water into my body, and it ran down all the way to my toes.  I don't know how to explain it.  My best stab is to say that it was my body reacting to the reality of it all; the new beginning, stepping back into a continuum that houses painful feelings.  Logically, I am over the past of 15 years ago.  What happened happened, it was so long ago, and I'd made ammends with it over the years.  But emotions aren't logical.  Emotional memory banks care not for the rationalization of the mind.

Since that day - the day of warmth let's call it - my entire being has been hammerlocked on this woman.  The problem is, I'm not in a position as of today to really do anything about it.  There are things going on that need tending, serious formalities: my house is about to foreclose, will probably declare bankruptcy and move back home after 12 years.  These are things I've been dealing with for months, before the reunion.

When I say hammerlocked, I mean that while I sit here in my hometown, even farther away from her than before, I feel like I'm not here.  The rescuer in me is propelling me in a new direction, mentally, and I can't control it.  I'm not living in the now, but in the future.

Anyway, we've been in contact for about a month now, and I'm confident that when the time comes, some serious intheflesh reunionship is going to transpire.  But, again, I am no fool.  Anything can happen between now and then.  The foreclosure could get messy and take longer than expected.  I honestly want to lose this house, give it up and be done with it, but my ex is also involved (a large reason the foreclosure mess even exists to begin with, but 20-20 hindsight does no good at this point other than solidify my conviction in the matter) and she might fight for it.  I don't think she will, we discussed it at length, but she may have a change of heart.  Bottom line: there are numerous factors that could impede this seemingly wonderful possible reunion with a girl I really admire, and maybe even nullify it completely. 

Like I say, my head knows this, but my heart is having trouble maintaining.  My potential partner to be realizes what's going on, and is herself taking precautions.  She is no fool, either.  Basically, although there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm feeling the worst-case-scenario end of the spectrum without it even taking place.  Chalk it up to being realistic, or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Finally, there is the rescuer dynamic that I am always considerate of.  I this a bona fide open door, or is the rescuer too hopeful?  What if she's not ready for a new relationship?   Her divorce occured 4 years ago, but she's 4 months out of a different r/s that ended badly, to her detrimant.  I want this to work so much that I'm willing to wait until she's ready, or at least thinks she is.  We haven't gotten to that point, and probably won't until my situation clears up a bit.

I know that the right thing to do is be patient and let things happen, the answers will eventually come.  There's just so much going on right now, coupled with this reunion, that I find myself in a mixed state of fluctuating anxiety and depression.  I need strength!  Please, someone tell me that I'm not being a complete fool here, or that I am!

[marbleloser]

It's sounds like you need to rescue yourself at this point.You've got alot going on and she probably has some things she needs to work on herself as well,being just 4 months out of a RS. She's filling a need in you right now.Someone familiar that you've shared a past with.Nothing wrong with that,but something kept you two apart in the past.She chose him over you.Myself,I wouldn't want to play second fiddle to someone again.

How about you continue to talk to her,but work on your side of the street for now and allow her to work on hers?

If she's truly interested,and not just needy,she'll wait for you.If she starts pushing you to act or starts seeing other people,you'll know it wasn't meant to be.

[David Dare]

Thanks, I needed to hear/read that.  I agree.  Just so hard to control these feelings.  Thanks again.

[marbleloser]

You're welcome! You've got some distance between you two and that in itself is a hurdle to get over.Use it to your advantage and work on your own issues at the moment.If you were closer,your urge to rescue would put her needs above your own and right now,you have a full plate of your own needs.

[David Dare]

What resonated most with me is the part about being second fiddle.  That is so true, and part of the pain I feel, or perhaps of the memory from back in the day.  It's all real again, and I refuse to play that part.

[David Dare]

Well, after a couple days to think about it, and a couple more conversations with this girl, I need to be brutally honest.  Something just isn't right here, not adding up. 

For starters, she is depressed.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think she's... .  Not sure.  Out of control?  Not living a healthy lifestyle?  I don't know for sure, but something's just not adding up.

The problem for me is that I feel the projection going on, think it in my head.  I can't fix her, but I just want to see her again.  This is taking a turn for the worse for me, and I can't stop thinking about it.  Darn you, Facebook.  Darn these long distance r/s's.  Darn not being able to be omnipresent so I don't have to guess at things I'm not privy to.  Darn it, darn it, darn it.

[Maryiscontrary]

Let me play devils advocate and lets assume she is all peachy and totally together . David, if you feel anxiety and unease, you are bringing this to the table,is that fair for her?

Now, probably in reality, this anxiety is probably an important internal signal that something is not right with the sitation. A decent relationship is not about discomfort. Plus, you have a plateful yourself.

[MaybeSo]

So, being that this is personal inventory... .

It would be helpful to take some deep breaths and center yourself, and with compassion, be curious about you.

Damn Facebook, damn long distance, etc... .  Puts everything outside of you.

Starting with long distance and FB... .  these were choices you made. I've read a lot about long distance prospects being comfortable when we are emotionally unavailable... .  the distance, the longing, the geography illicits longings and romance but no real intimacy. Facebook is also a superficial and comfortable way to make pseudo-connections or Re-connections. Also, at 4 months out of a difficult relationship, she isn't going to be all there, thats normal, though a

romance with a long lost love maybe just the right distraction to numb the pain.

Maybe YOU just aren't ready yet ... .  for a relationship? And are just testing the waters?

I wouldn't get too off track on what might or might not be wrong with her... .  that's going down

another unproductive road.

What do you want? If you want a relationship (do you?) choose an available person or pursue those most likely to be available,  and make yourself available, too.

Neither one of you are really available right now, correct?

[Rubies]

So, being that this is personal inventory... .

It would be helpful to take some deep breaths and center yourself, and with compassion, be curious about you.

Damn Facebook, damn long distance, etc... .  Puts everything outside of you.

Starting with long distance and FB... .  these were choices you made. I've read a lot about long distance prospects being comfortable when we are emotionally unavailable... .  the distance, the longing, the geography illicits longings and romance but no real intimacy. Facebook is also a superficial and comfortable way to make pseudo-connections or Re-connections. Also, at 4 months out of a difficult relationship, she isn't going to be all there, thats normal, though a

romance with a long lost love maybe just the right distraction to numb the pain.

Maybe YOU just aren't ready yet ... .  for a relationship? And are just testing the waters?

I wouldn't get too off track on what might or might not be wrong with her... .  that's going down

another unproductive road.

What do you want? If you want a relationship (do you?) choose an available person or pursue those most likely to be available,  and make yourself available, too.

Neither one of you are really available right now, correct?

I am thoroughly in agreement.  What are you seeking with your choices?  Take your heart and your feelings, shove them into your belly and digest them.  Perhaps you need to take a Road Trip.

I don't think it's unreasonable in your situation to tell her at some point in person you would like to pursue a real relationship with her, but you both have unfinished business before either can go there.  Is she interested in working toward being relationship ready?

Take it slow.

[David Dare]

Thanks for the responses, Maryiscontrary, MaybeSo and Rubies.  You are all correct, and it's true, I'm not in a good place right now.  Not the worst place, but not a good one either. 

For me, I have a bunch going on that I already mentioned.  On a more personal level, I'm tyring to regulate my sleep cycle and it's not working.  I've taken valerian root and melatonin, and I end up just laying in bed, rolling around.  For me, that is my core goal.  I need to be waking up in the morning so I can go about my day and start taking care of business, so to speak, for me.  It's distressing.  I've always been a night owl, and am ready to change that, just having a hard time doing so.  Plus, having all this free time to just lay in bed and think doesn't help.  I try to distract myself, but maybe I'm depressed right now as nothing seems to be that interesting. 

As for Facebook and the long distance courting, whathaveyou, there's no doubt in my mind that if I could somehow visit her right now a lot of questions would be answered.  But I can't, and I accept that.  What's bothering me is the addictiveness of it.  It's like I'm in love and can't shut it off.  I haven't done the long distance thing in about 13 years.  I'm mentally not equipped to deal with it. 

So, in the meantime I chat with her spuradically now and then, when the opportunity is there.  I don't want to go completely silent, ala "Just be patient and I'll get in touch when this is through".  That scares me. 

What I want to hear is that she will wait for me to be avaialable, but I can't ask that.  I don't know how long this forclosure will take, and, due to the long distance aspect, I'm not willing to make stipulations.  The framework now is, when I get there I will, and in the meantime there are no obligations.

A lot of my worry is conjured in my head, due to info gaps, long distance.  I have no idea what she does in her free time, and I it's really not my business, especially if she's defensive after her breakup.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

[GreenMango]

You write well and explain the nuances of how you are feeling clearly.

When you wrote about the year long emotional affair along time ago I have to admit I raised an eyebrow - not judging just looking at some things that present an area of concern.

You don't have to have BPD to be emotionally unavailable for a relationship or to have some unrealistic fanatsies about relationships. 

Sometimes I wonder if the lost love fantasy is just a fantasy.  Kind of like fantasizing about winning the lottery and everything you'd do with the winnings. 

[David Dare]

Thank you, GreenMango. 

The lottery analogy is very accurate.  The first couple weeks of reconnecting, or few days maybe, it's a blur now, yes, there was a lot of that going on in my head, fantasizing of what could have been, and what could be.  We had some very open conversations, like it was the late 90's all over again.  Then, when it got to the point of me explaining my situation, how I am unavailable to come see her for the next few months, things digressed, mostly on her end.  Well, that's not true.  I, too, digressed, because I was losing focus.  We both digressed would be accurate. 

On my end, I think I'm more emotionally invested.  Perhaps I was cought up in the moment and let it overwhelm me.  I mention the *day of warmth* because it freaked me out.  I took it as a warning, that I had gone to far, opened up too much.  It's hard then when she is crying, admitting her feelings, when I myself long to see her again. 

The way I feel now is that I made my case about keeping the future open, and I believe she accepts it, but that's all it is, an agreement that if/when the time comes she will welcome me for a visit. That's it: a visit.  It doesn't mean anything beyond that, and I am trying to reel myself back in emotionally.  Honestly, I'm getting there, slowly, but what should be the end game, indifference?  Should that be how I feel?  Like you mention, maybe she is emotionally unavailable.  Maybe she's always been that way.  She was available for me, back in the day when things were hot an heavy, but like you mention, long distance relationships have a way of propping up the fantasy, making it seem real.

Here's a kernel of contention that has been messing with my mind, probably the deepest concern I have.  If she was willing to maintain a LD r/s with me then, while she was engaged to me married, then a likelihood that she is seeing someone now exists.  I don't feel in a position to ask, not yet.

[GreenMango]

Maybe like Maybeso mentioned you both might be unavailable right now.

I'm not sure how how you are supposed to feel.  They way you explained that rush of warmth was pretty observant though.

I'm not sure why you can't ask her if she's seeing anyone.  It would seem like apretty good question to ask just straight forward in regards to how invested you get.  Pretty important from the sound of it.

What's the worst that will happen?  You won't be together?  You aren't together now.  Doesn't sound like things would be much different is what I'm trying to say here.

[David Dare]

Well, I did ask, not quite that directly, but more along the lines of "If there's a reason I should stop this tell me now", to which she replied that she's not attracted to one guy that wants her, another guy she does want to be with uses her, and that she's not happy.  The way I interprit that is yes, there is a guy that she sees, but it's not what she wants it to be, or that it's her ex. 

I guess I neglected to mention this here because it hurts to admit.  The "she's not happy" part sounds oh so familiar.  Maybe she will never be happy.  That's why I say earlier that something is up, that she is living a destructive lifestyle, whether she's seeing a guy for sex, or whatever else it may be.  I haven't pressed too hard, because at this juncture I just don't think it'd matter, not until I myself am ready.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I am beginning to accept the full picture here.  It's no longer 1999.  Her life is on a path of her chosing.  I just don't want to jump to conclusion outright, and the circumstantial evidence at this point leads to a murky situation.

And, while I'm at it, it comes back to the title of this post: I let the rescuer out of the bag, and now I can't put it back in.  I knew this would happen, and I didn't protect myself.  I used her sadness as a reason to come forth and proclaim my feelings.  My feelings are true, though, but maybe should have been kept to myself.

The way I feel, honestly, is I'm enmeshed with the fantasy, and with it comes a hollow feeling.  And it happened so fast. 

EDIT: After reading this post and all the previous ones, I can see how I already did jump to conclusions.  I did get caught up in the moment and made strong assumptions.  LIke I said, the fork in the road presented itself, and I didn't just choose a path, I sprinted down it.  Dangnabbit, not good, not good at all.

Before this all happened, I was doing okay.  I was dealing with the foreclosure and everything and wasn't too concerned about much.  Now I'm depressed and not thinking clearly.  That really is what bother me the most, whether it's a consequence of what is happening now, or what happened back then, or both combined.  I feel like an idiot for letting this happen. 

[Rubies]

Just breathe.  Embrace and process the WHYs of your feelings.   They should mellow out in a week or two.  It's okay to have these feelings as long as you understand them.  Needing to take care of business, the external and internal, should slow you down enough to get your feet back under you.

[Maryiscontrary]

David. I am have trouble following your narrative. It seems thoughts are jumping back and forth. Healing starts when you can put together a cohesive narrative.

[David Dare]

I'll do my best to sum it up.  Reunited with a girl on through Facebook, as stated in the original post.  The reunion went pretty good, until I mentioned I am unavailable for a few months.  Problem was, I said a lot of stuff, opened up so to speak, about my feelings, and it ramped up my anxiety since I can't be with her, and I am dealing with personal stuff of my own (impending foreclosure, moving).

Here are the pertinent facts as I can best explain them:

She said she wants to see me again.

After a few weeks, she said there's a love interest in her life, but she feels used, unhappy.

She mentions more things that raise red flags, how she's unhappy, how she's miserable, just being overall very negative etc.

The reason this adds up to frustration for me is I don't want that, I don't want to persue someone who is out of control, so to speak, or seeing someone else.  If she's unhappy, she should make changes.  And, call it intuition, I think she's hiding something from me, that she is seeing someone who may perhaps be more serious that she is willing to admit, maybe to not hurt my feelings, I don't know.

So where that leaves me is in a state of regret, because I jumped the gun, mentally and emotionally, thinking that we could pick up where we left off many years ago.  She isn't the same person she was, and I created my own reality of her in my head that, IMO, was propelled by the rescuer side of me.  Yes, she has every right to live her life her own way, see people, etc, but I don't have to like it.  I could maybe deal with it better if I hadn't created this warped perception of her, my projected version of her.  And now, quite honestly, I wish I hadn't opened up that box, and it's making me sad, depressed.  What makes it twofold is the fact that I sensed this coming and still went forward anyway.  Writing this all out and sharing it here is helping me own up to the reality, and I appreciate everyone's input and willingness to read/listen.

[GreenMango]

You seem pretty aware of things early.  You got a little hopeful, but present.  That's good.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with what you actually followed through with following that rescuer thing.  I don't see you blindly following it.

Sometimes these things hurt or touch sensitive stuff regardless of how little involved you got.

[David Dare]

Thanks.  My feelings got way too strong way too fast.  And I'm thinking that maybe I had her pegged wrong all along, anyway.  Yes, we used to spend every night talking on the phone back in the day, and yes we do stay in contact now, although not on the same level as before, but maybe I was just blind the whole time, and that what I want is the happy fairy tale ending that simply isn't there.

[GreenMango]

I'm pretty convinced theres a happy ending.  It just doesn't always look like we expect or come right when we want it.

This could be a blessing in disguise.

One thing when I think about whether I'm attracted to someone now is to question and slow down because I wasn't doing a good job at it - which is obvious or I would be on these boards.  Picking with my pants, or with very little real time experience, and ignoring important to me stuff.   It just different now.  Less shiny but more comforting/calm.

It's gotta be more difficult if there was a connection before her, when say you werent as healthy as you are now or learned some tough lessons.  It would be easy to forget about that personal growth and experiences both ways.

Resilience and optimism - great ways to combat that crappy feeling.  Maybe try to reframe it a bit.  It helps me when I do this.

[David Dare]

You could be right.  I'm having trouble with patience.  I want her to be mine now, or to at least be at that stage where I am on my way there to see her.  I knew this was going to be tough, hence backing away a little bit.  And while I step back, my mind goes back and forth between optimism and and pessimism.  For what it's worth, our chats are generally positive, but I sense things.  Maybe I'm making it up.  Maybe she's being careful, too.  Again, patience will win the day.  Thanks again. 

[MaybeSo]

I'm noticing a preoccupation with it being all good, fairytale,wonderfulness right now,

Or all bad, a mistake, she's not what you thought... . your concerns come true

These are extremes.

When we are in this kind of head space, we are ripe for projecting a movie we have running in our own minds onto a person... . love of my life movie... . huge disappointment movie.

She doesn't have to be either.

As GM mentions... . it takes time. It takes time to really get to know a person and not just be

swept away with romantic/tragic projections (our own hopes and fears).

There is a real person there... . with qualities both good and bad you have no idea about yet.

with time you can let thus unfold organically and learn a lot about both her and yourself along

the way without attachment to the one or two stories in your head... . that is what relating is

about. If we get caught up in our projections we miss out on the stuff Of life.

Let it unfold. Learn about yourself along the way... .

[livednlearned]

What's bothering me is the addictiveness of it.  It's like I'm in love and can't shut it off. 

I had two similar episodes after leaving my N/BPDx. Both with boyfriends I hadn't seen for over a decade. Both long-distance. The first one truly felt like an addiction, and when I realized that he was still with the same woman he cheated on when he met me 12 years ago (even though he said they had broken up), I ended it. The withdrawal was awful. Then it happened again with a second bf, this time I had moved the needle a bit on my own healing, and recognized that he was just another fixer-upper. Lovely, kind, generous, I could talk to him for hours, he felt like a soul mate, but in the end, a deeply needy man who at age 44 had never married, never been in a long-term relationship, no kids, no pets.

Pay attention to that feeling you have that things don't add up. Some people can do long-distance relationships, but I don't think it's wise for someone getting out of a BPD relationship to even consider them. We are already so susceptible to magical thinking and projecting our own fantasies and desires onto people, only to be in for a rude surprise that we struggle to walk away from.

Take care of yourself. Let these feelings wash over you and pay attention to where they're coming from, and think of them like the Sirens in Homer's Odyssey that are luring you to ruin.

[David Dare]

I appreciate the responses, thank you. 

Yesterday I spent some time trying to figure out why I get so caught up in fantasy.  I think it's because I have a tremendous amount of boring time on my hands to think (seems it's been that way for most of my life), a vivid imagination, and never really had a truly fulfilling relationship in my life.  Other than the r/s with uBPDx, I had a 12-year r/s with someone who was good to me, but was more like a partnership.  We didn't have much in common, but it lasted a while.  This is the same girl who is connected with me to the house that is about to foreclose.

I apologize if this thread seems to jump around, but new realizations happen as the days go by, and my focus shifts.  I've been doing my best to focus more on me, and it helps.

I'm not ready to pass judgement.  I believe a lot of my stress is from conjured thoughts based on whims and hunches.

Like I stated, a lot of my problem is having too much time on my hands, but also the fact that we hit it off so well to begin with and nowvhas tapered off.  I don't mean to think 'what if', but in a way I feel strangled by the fact I couldn't and can't do anything right now.

I am still in deep contemplation of how I feel, and will write more when I make new discoveries.

[Maryiscontrary]

This is a good narrative. Keep it up.

[David Dare]

Okay, I will now do my best to outline the discoveries I made over the last few days.

For starters, I put effort into putting future possible love interest on hold mentally, and directed my attention back onto me and the here and now.  Although I consider my xgf an xgf, we do still live together, platonically, with no intimacy.  I'm fine with that.  Intimacy doesn't feel right for me at this point.  Just a reminder, we are evetually splitting once the bank repossesses this house.

Even though we are platonic, there is still a lot of sadness involved with living together, or even just in this house.  Every day I come home I have to look at this reminder of how we failed, how I failed.  Every time I look at her, I am filled with sadness by the fact that we both are going seperate ways.  Even though it's amicable, I still care about her, and she was very good to me.  We just aren't compatible, though, and the relationship needs to end.  Quite frankly, it should have ended a long time ago, but I fell into the comfort zone and stuck around.  The obligation became compounded when I signed onto the mortgage back in '06. 

I finally opened up about it, and it was a very sad, depressing conversation filled with tears.  I'm having a hard time letting go, dealing with what will be a big step move.  My head travels to the past, scanning all my mistakes, the self-judgmental devil keeping me under his foot.  There were a lot of good times at this house, in this area.  Many times laziness or complacency prevented me from striving for better work, better pay, and an overall feeling of accomplishment.  Part of the reason for that is where I live is kind of a boony town with not much to do and little business diversity.  I always managed to earn just enough to pay my half with a little left over for entertainment. 

The same can be said about socializing with friends and coworkers.  I don't like seeing everyone, them knowing I'm leaving.  I know they don't perceive me as a failure in the same why I see myself, but still I project a part of myself onto them.  I don't like answering questions about it, and try to change the subject whenever it comes up.

One strange thing I was able to identify, which relates to my vivid imagination I described earlier, is that in my head this dire situation is being played out to it's most dramatic.  I imagine things I should say to people, the final goodbye so to speak, and really, it's not the right way to think.  It's like I want to make a lasting impact, when in reality these people are living their own lives, and yes they might miss me or whatever, but it's not something I should worry about.  I have my own life to worry about.

So, after I had my emotional conversation with ex, and made observations about my mind that don't seem correct, I spent the entire weekend alone in my house as X had a super busy weekend out of town, and everyone else also had to work.  I sat around brooding, asking myself how did I let my life get this way, to where I sit around on a holiday weekend with nothing to do, nobody to hang around with.  It was sometime over the weekend when I looked at old photos I have and realized that for a long time stretching way back to childhood that I always put an emphasis on having a lot of friends.  It used to be a people pleaser problem, but somewhere along the way I realized that some poeple can't be pleased, are a bad influence, etc, and began taking more care as to whom I associated with.

The main problem I deduce from this having a lot of freinds problem is that it somehow became a measurement of success in my head.  As long as I had plenty of freinds to socialize (i.e. validate me) then there was no need to persue a career.  I literally have nothing but entry level restaurant experience (with a fraction of managorial experience) as a career.  Nothing wrong with that per se, expcept that I much smarter than that and could be doing much better off had I just buckled down and persued something.  This also messes with my head because now I will be starting over again and have nothing to fall back on, careerwise.  I do have a wonderfully supportive family who will be there for me, but the truth is I should be more independant than I now am, and it's frustrating.

Okay, so now let's bring future love interest back into the equation and address how that plays into it.

For starters, thoughts of her, of being with her, tremendously exascerbate the inner judgmental tormentor.  A while ago, around the *day of warmth*, I practically condemned myself to emotional death simply for not being available to act on those deeply felt impulses.  I had to accept that for the last 12 years I was in an unfulfilling relationship, that I *settled*, and it made me ill.  I don't want to think of X that way.  She's been very good to me, despite our incompatibility.  She hasn't been perfect, I'll admit, and neither have I, but I still see her in a positive light and care about her.  Maybe I'm having a hard time seperating love from admiration.  Obviously, seeing her everyday makes it hard to make that emotional seperation.  Enter the new/old girl into the picture and I was emotionally torn apart.

After making these realizations, I've somewhat tempered my fanciful daydreams of reconnection.  I'm trying my best to see it for what it really is, not what I want it to be.  It is so hard.  I'm starting to think that my imagination might be a form of deeply ingrained cognitive dissonance mechanism, my way of sidestepping reality in favor of a reality I want to believe in.  It's so easy to get caught up in that.  There are no immediate harmful ramifications, but a subtle peaceful bliss that works to justify the mechanism.  When the time comes to face the facts, though, it erupts with uncontrollable force.  So I'm doing my best to keep things real, to make no assumptions.

Again, thanks for listening/reading.

[livednlearned]

Your reflections are excellent, DD.

What I see from reading your last entry is that you're in a vulnerable place. Others can chime in, but I think that's the biggest red flag of all when it comes to starting new relationships. It sounds like you're figuring that out. When you sort out the self-confidence piece, and are in a better place psychologically, that's the time to be thinking about relationships.

When I met N/BPDx, my company was shutting down, I was in debt, and was living in a boony town too where employment was limited. I was too proud to move back with my parents (I was in my late 20s), and then N/BPDx came along and I hitched all my fantasies to him, totally ignoring the danger signs.

I really admire how honest you are about your vulnerability right now. It's huge.

[David Dare]

Thanks for the reply, livednlearned. 

I'm definitely not in a position to be courting a love interest, even one that has the familiarity of yester-year.  Thankfully, I think she gets the hint and isn't really pursuing me, or expects me to persue her, at least until I'm ready.  It's good that she recognizes that, and perhaps she is willing to wait.  Who knows?  There are no obligations, just lots of hope.

[David Dare]

I recently concluded that I need to leave my situation sooner than later.  As I contemplate the move from my house (which will be foreclosed upon, most likely driving me to bankruptcy) I feel sick to my stomach and head.  I knew this wouldn't be easy, but enough is enough.  I've been miserable far too long, and have been under so much stress that I'm numb to it.  It's not good.  I feel... . I don't even know anymore.

Enter the past/future girl into the mix.  Now that I'm actively planning this move, it seems silly that I let myself get whisked away in dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to feel attraction for someone, but to make it such a priority, against all odds, seems ridiculous.  That, too, factors into how I feel.  Just like wow, I let my mind go there again, kind of like how it did with xBPD.

Another thing I need to vent about while I'm at it is Facebook.  FB was never really a problem for me until this girl came along, or I came along to her, rather.  I never cared about people's posts, this and that, but now I feel like a snoop, and, conversely, being snooped on.  Snoop is a bad way to put it... . watched?  As I stated in previous posts, I told her not to feel obligated to me for any reason, because, really, I'm not available.  Our direct communications have slowed to a trickle, which kinda sucks, because I miss chatting with her, her attention.  As a result, the way things seem on FB now is "oh, did she post that about me?  Is she posting that for some other possible love interest?  Does she think I posted this for her?", etc.  I hate it.  I really don't want to be on there anymore, it messes with my head to much.  This feeling -- I don't know, paranoia?  jealousy?  Not sure what to call it -- reminds me of how I felt coming out of r/s with xBPD.  Yeah, it's not as intense as it was then, but it's still uncontrollable, a nuisance I would rather not have to think about at this point. 

At any rate, I'm tired of being miserable, tired of keeping myself distracted by numerous hobbies, tired of what's being said on FB, and the problem is I knew this would happen weeks ago when I decided to let myself *go there*.  Groan... .   Lord, give me strength!  I'm tired of the drama, of worrying about everybody else.  I just want this to be over.

[schwing]

Hi David Dare,

Your post title caught my eye because your issue is my issue as well.  

I recently concluded that I need to leave my situation sooner than later.  As I contemplate the move from my house (which will be foreclosed upon, most likely driving me to bankruptcy) I feel sick to my stomach and head.  I knew this wouldn't be easy, but enough is enough.  I've been miserable far too long, and have been under so much stress that I'm numb to it.  It's not good.  I feel... . I don't even know anymore.

Enter the past/future girl into the mix.  Now that I'm actively planning this move, it seems silly that I let myself get whisked away in dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to feel attraction for someone, but to make it such a priority, against all odds, seems ridiculous.  That, too, factors into how I feel.  Just like wow, I let my mind go there again, kind of like how it did with xBPD.

I don't think it's a coincidence that you juxtaposed these two scenarios: your difficult situation and your dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  I find that for me, whenever I have a strong impulse to rescue someone else, it at least has something to do with my internal feelings of either being overwhelmed, or feeling distressed in some way.  For me, I interpret such feelings as a kind of projection: I'm feeling distressed but have difficulty either addressing my distress (i.e., codependency), or even admitting to myself that I am distressed, so I project those feelings outwards and find someone in distress to rescue.  I'm working on learning to rescue myself.

Another thing I need to vent about while I'm at it is Facebook.  FB was never really a problem for me until this girl came along, or I came along to her, rather.  I never cared about people's posts, this and that, but now I feel like a snoop, and, conversely, being snooped on.  Snoop is a bad way to put it... . watched?

I'm not a big fan of Facebook.  Personally I prefer analog social interaction because I find that kind of interaction more honest and telling.

But pay attention whenever you find your instincts triggered in the way that you describe.  I've found that for me, I've unconsciously picked up on something that might be familiar.  And if familiar or your familial background is mostly good, then perhaps this is a good sign.  But I suspect that something about this girl resonants with something significant about your past, and this is what has attracted your attention.

I don't know exactly what that is for you, but I'll tell you how it applies to me.  

Both my parents, I believe, have a personality disorder. When growing up, whenever my attention was applied to my uBPD mother, I'm certain that's when she was apparently most emotionally available to me.  Here's the scenario: whenever uNPD father leaves home to work, or socialize, or whatever and leaves uBPD mother home with the kids, uBPD mother would then experience anxiety and her disordered fear of abandonment.  And of course, she inappropriately expresses her distress to her children (I'm the oldest of my siblings).  This is all kinds of worlds of wrong (think covert incest); that's something I'm coming to terms with.  But at least this kind of scenario had primed or conditioned me to behave as a rescuer.  

Mom was in distress, maybe dad was "cheating" on her or doing something wrong because why else would mom be in distress?  Kid-Schwing steps up to the plate and does everything and anything he can to make mom feel better including scolding dad, or just by validating mom's distorted perceptions.  And gets rewarded by getting a temporarily attentive and grateful mother.

As I stated in previous posts, I told her not to feel obligated to me for any reason, because, really, I'm not available.  Our direct communications have slowed to a trickle, which kinda sucks, because I miss chatting with her, her attention.  As a result, the way things seem on FB now is "oh, did she post that about me?  Is she posting that for some other possible love interest?  :)oes she think I posted this for her?", etc.  I hate it.  I really don't want to be on there anymore, it messes with my head to much.  

I can't pretend to know what exactly is going on with you.  

But I'll tell you how your scenario can seriously mess with my head:  Not only would I have some unconscious and compelling reason to interact with such a woman.  But her sudden disinterest would actually draw me further because that was what I was familiar with when interacting with my uBPD mother: i.e., when my attention was fixed on her, she rewarded me.  When my attention wasn't fixed on her, I wasn't given the same kind of attention and nurturing for which I was desperate.  And so my mind would gravitate towards, how do I get her attention back?  Even though I was the one who was hurting.

This feeling -- I don't know, paranoia?  jealousy?  Not sure what to call it -- reminds me of how I felt coming out of r/s with xBPD.  Yeah, it's not as intense as it was then, but it's still uncontrollable, a nuisance I would rather not have to think about at this point.  

If this feeling reminds you of your exBPD, then that is a very bad sign.  Intellectually though you understand that by telling her you have a lot going on with you that your plate is full, if she is a compassionate and empathetic human being, she would demonstrate some kind of interest in what you are going through.  At the very least lend you her ear, because that is what you have done for her, no?  But instead, it's like you've suddenly ceased to exist for her.

At any rate, I'm tired of being miserable, tired of keeping myself distracted by numerous hobbies, tired of what's being said on FB, and the problem is I knew this would happen weeks ago when I decided to let myself *go there*.  Groan... .  Lord, give me strength!  I'm tired of the drama, of worrying about everybody else.  I just want this to be over.

Then do something about your miserable feelings besides turning to distractions.  Stop worrying about other people who are only sources of drama.  Maybe find some people who will worry about you for a change?

The way I feel now is that I made my case about keeping the future open, and I believe she accepts it, but that's all it is, an agreement that if/when the time comes she will welcome me for a visit. That's it: a visit.  It doesn't mean anything beyond that, and I am trying to reel myself back in emotionally.  Honestly, I'm getting there, slowly, but what should be the end game, indifference?  Should that be how I feel?  Like you mention, maybe she is emotionally unavailable.  Maybe she's always been that way.  She was available for me, back in the day when things were hot an heavy, but like you mention, long distance relationships have a way of propping up the fantasy, making it seem real.

For her it's a "visit." For you it's a whole lot more emotionally charged.  If this is not how you normally react to such a situation, you should ask yourself why do you react this way to this woman?  But then again, if you don't have the emotional resources to really investigate this, because that may be inviting a lot more drama into your life, then you should rationally let it go.  And if you find it difficult to do so, be wary.  This means you're dealing with an impulse which may be good or bad.  But for me, if I had such an impulse, I would consider it not good.  Not something I'd completely avoid, if I though it was an impulse I didn't understand about myself.  But I wouldn't take it on, unless I had room in my life for a significant puzzle.

Here's a kernel of contention that has been messing with my mind, probably the deepest concern I have.  If she was willing to maintain a LD r/s with me then, while she was engaged to me married, then a likelihood that she is seeing someone now exists.  I don't feel in a position to ask, not yet.

It might be better for you to try to limit how much you are guessing about her, and focus on why this is messing with your mind.

Well, I did ask, not quite that directly, but more along the lines of "If there's a reason I should stop this tell me now", to which she replied that she's not attracted to one guy that wants her, another guy she does want to be with uses her, and that she's not happy.  The way I interprit that is yes, there is a guy that she sees, but it's not what she wants it to be, or that it's her ex.  

I guess I neglected to mention this here because it hurts to admit.  The "she's not happy" part sounds oh so familiar.  Maybe she will never be happy.  That's why I say earlier that something is up, that she is living a destructive lifestyle, whether she's seeing a guy for sex, or whatever else it may be.  I haven't pressed too hard, because at this juncture I just don't think it'd matter, not until I myself am ready.

If she's not attracted to one guy that wants her... . but strings him along, that's not good.

If she's with another that she does want, but who uses her... . that's not good.

She's not happy... . but instead of talking to these other guys who I presume she is more involved with than you, she's talking to you instead.  Why?  Why is she talking to you about these other guys?  Granted this is not a triangle per say... . more like a trapezoid?

Why would you want to be ready for someone who is so confused about her love life?  :)o you see yourself as the one who will lift her confusion?  Or would you just add to the noise? (No disrespect to you as a lover, but rather I question her ability to appreciate and work with what she has)

And, while I'm at it, it comes back to the title of this post: I let the rescuer out of the bag, and now I can't put it back in.  I knew this would happen, and I didn't protect myself.  I used her sadness as a reason to come forth and proclaim my feelings.  My feelings are true, though, but maybe should have been kept to myself.

The way I feel, honestly, is I'm enmeshed with the fantasy, and with it comes a hollow feeling.  And it happened so fast.  

I think it is worthwhile to investigate this aspect of your behavior.

Ok, the rescuer is out of the bag and you can't put it back in.  That's ok.  You can still choose *not* to act on any of the rescuer's impulses.  That's not going to be easy, but this is a worthwhile skill to develop.  At least so long as you don't understand the nature of the rescuer in you.  

It is a key observation that you recognize that your rescuer impulse is in some way connected, or enmeshed with fantasy thinking.

Before this all happened, I was doing okay.  

Are you sure you were okay?  Because I would argue that if you were ok, the rescuer impulse you are dealing with right now, would not be a strong an impulse.  If you are doing worse, then perhaps you would not be able to help yourself in trying to limit this impulse.

I was dealing with the foreclosure and everything and wasn't too concerned about much.  Now I'm depressed and not thinking clearly.  That really is what bother me the most, whether it's a consequence of what is happening now, or what happened back then, or both combined.  I feel like an idiot for letting this happen.  

Sometimes not thinking clearly is a relief from depression.  I don't think you should feel like an idiot.  Thinking yourself as such may be part of the problem.  Granted what you are dealing with right now may be a distraction from other things that are important to you.  But this distraction might help you understand a little bit more about yourself, and that is a worthwhile endeavor.

Even though we are platonic, there is still a lot of sadness involved with living together, or even just in this house.  Every day I come home I have to look at this reminder of how we failed, how I failed.  

Ops, I'm going in the wrong order of your posts.  This post still might work out... .

You didn't fail, the relationship broke.  These things can happen for a whole host of different reasons.  Calling yourself a failure for things that may be completely outside of your control is not a good way to relate to yourself.  In your recovery process, you are in need of an advocate for your needs and wants.  You need to be this advocate.  And an advocate for your interests would not call you an "idiot" for doing something that is not idiotic, and would not call you a "failure" for not succeeding at something that was nearly impossible.

I don't like seeing everyone, them knowing I'm leaving.  I know they don't perceive me as a failure in the same why I see myself, but still I project a part of myself onto them.  I don't like answering questions about it, and try to change the subject whenever it comes up.

This might also be a worthwhile path to consider.  You know you might be projecting feelings onto other people.  And these feelings are driving you to isolate yourself during a period when isolation may not serve you.  You're going to go through one of the most stressful periods any person can go through: (1) you're changing where you live (2) you're changing where you work (3) you're changing who you live with.  Those are all on the top of the list when it comes to stressful things that can happen in a person's life.  You might be in need of support, not isolation.

Try answering those questions, to yourself.  So you can identify those thoughts you might be accepting, that an advocate wouldn't use to describe you.

... .

[schwing]

One strange thing I was able to identify, which relates to my vivid imagination I described earlier, is that in my head this dire situation is being played out to it's most dramatic.  I imagine things I should say to people, the final goodbye so to speak, and really, it's not the right way to think.  It's like I want to make a lasting impact, when in reality these people are living their own lives, and yes they might miss me or whatever, but it's not something I should worry about.  I have my own life to worry about.

This is a big event... . for you.  You're right it might not be a big event for everyone else, but you're not everyone else, you're you.  And perhaps it is you who feels this drama, and looking for an outlet.  Perhaps you have a desire to express some final goodbyes, not for them, but for you.  And it's quite human to want to see your leaving as leaving an impact on these other people's lives, and maybe to some it will, but you won't know unless you engage them to say your goodbyes.  

I sat around brooding, asking myself how did I let my life get this way, to where I sit around on a holiday weekend with nothing to do, nobody to hang around with.  It was sometime over the weekend when I looked at old photos I have and realized that for a long time stretching way back to childhood that I always put an emphasis on having a lot of friends.  It used to be a people pleaser problem, but somewhere along the way I realized that some poeple can't be pleased, are a bad influence, etc, and began taking more care as to whom I associated with.

Then you have a great idea for how to seed your future.  

The main problem I deduce from this having a lot of freinds problem is that it somehow became a measurement of success in my head.  As long as I had plenty of freinds to socialize (i.e. validate me) then there was no need to persue a career.  I literally have nothing but entry level restaurant experience (with a fraction of managorial experience) as a career.  Nothing wrong with that per se, expcept that I much smarter than that and could be doing much better off had I just buckled down and persued something.  This also messes with my head because now I will be starting over again and have nothing to fall back on, careerwise.  I do have a wonderfully supportive family who will be there for me, but the truth is I should be more independant than I now am, and it's frustrating.

To much socializing does take away time from pursuing professional endeavors.  You now have a drive to exercise your other talents, that's good.  And in the future, you have the challenge of striking a new balance between professional life and social life.  

For starters, thoughts of her, of being with her, tremendously exascerbate the inner judgmental tormentor.  

Ok... . that you have to shut down, the "inner judgmental tormentor."  I don't know where you picked up this thinking, but this part of your thinking does not serve you, certainly not right now.

A while ago, around the *day of warmth*, I practically condemned myself to emotional death simply for not being available to act on those deeply felt impulses.  I had to accept that for the last 12 years I was in an unfulfilling relationship, that I *settled*, and it made me ill.  I don't want to think of X that way.  She's been very good to me, despite our incompatibility.  She hasn't been perfect, I'll admit, and neither have I, but I still see her in a positive light and care about her.  

Here's why I think it felt like an emotional death not to act on those deeply felt impulses: because for the last 12 years you've neglected a part of yourself. Maybe it's a part of yourself that your partner should have nurtured.  But I would argue, that if you are not aware of it, how could she hope to be aware of it... . there are those occasional serendipitous relationships for those of us with a y chromosome that we should be so lucky to end up with someone who does... . but I believe it's our individual responsibility to take care of our own internal happiness.

I think I know what you describe feels like.  I think it feels like going on for years believing that you should be happy or evening convincing yourself that you are happy until you find something that knocks you upside your head and wakes you up to the fact that you are not actually happy.  And that *day of warmth* experience that you felt may shed a wee bit of light on that regard, but I seriously doubt that this other woman holds the key to your happiness.  No one does.  We hold it.  And if we never learned as children to cultivate such happiness in ourselves, then we endeavor to learn this as adults.

Maybe I'm having a hard time seperating love from admiration.  Obviously, seeing her everyday makes it hard to make that emotional seperation.  Enter the new/old girl into the picture and I was emotionally torn apart.

You can't love anyone more than you love yourself.  And considering that, I think right now, the way you are feeling about yourself, it's probably pretty hard to find the love you might feel towards your ex.  Enter the new/old girl, and suddenly, you have a sense of how much capacity for love you have, and how much you want for yourself.  But I don't believe that loves is coming from her, she is only a catalyst for you.  How could you love her?  Technically you barely know her right now.

But how you feel about her right now, is a whole lot better than how you might be feeling about yourself right now, so I can understand the powerful draw.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Best wishes, Schwing

[David Dare]

Thanks, shwing, for replying so thoroughly to this post.  It's given me a lot to think about.  With each day that passes, something new happens, I take a step forward, or perhaps back at times, and my perspective changes a little bit.  There's a lot here to process.  I'll try my best to respond to everything, becuause you are correct on many points.

For starters, let me say that overcoming my uBPDx r/s introduced to many theories -- traingulation, projection, etc -- that are helping me sort this out, and I do my best to avoid the trappings that comes with ignorance of such knowledge.  For example, with the new/old girl, I didn't think it was fair to stay in regular contact while making my way through my situation for reasons that I hope protect the both of us from misplaced stress.  What happens here isn't her business, so in turn I made sure not to make her life my business.  What you mentioned about her being a catalyst that drove this awareness in me that I've been unfulfilled is true.  I realize that.  And, as time has passed, I've developed a more rational approach to the scenario, that I can't and shouldn't be planning a r/s with her until I've moved past my current situation.  This plays into why we really don't talk much.  It does me no good at this point.  I am consumed with putting this behind me, and until I do that, communicating with her would just be a distraction, and at worst could lead down a path I wish to not take her.  She knows what I'm going through, and she understands.   I think, too, that I'm trying very hard to prevent unwanted triangulation.  I don't want her feelings to be based on what I'm experiencing with my here-and-now ex as we go through this process.  I want to be in the clear before moving forward at all.  It is hard, trying my patience, but I am surviving.

It's true that some aspects of dealing with this woman have triggered responses within that remind me of times I dealt with uBPDx.  Much of that stems from some chats we had, where she'd say things like "I never had a relationship like the one we had."  I imagine she means that in a positive light, and yes, much of the conversations we had while we were communicating regularly were positive.  But still, it's open to interpritation.  What does "like the one we had" mean?  To be fair, considering my circumstances, I never really pressed the issue on that, or anything else too far, because I know that continuing down such paths at this juncture means nothing; I will still end up here at the end of the day, dealing with this mess.  So, basically, although our communication was positive and open, I didn't press too far, again, to avoid going to deep too soon, although it got deep enough, so to speak.  We were both candid, honest.  I just don't want her to know what I'm going through right now, partly because it's none of her business, and partly because I don't want to draw her in, make her feel pressured to make decisions that don't need to be made at this point.

The part about the guys she mentioned -- the one who wants to be with her, and the one she wants to be with but doesn't want her -- sounds worse than it is, IMO.  I don't know the details too much about the second guy, but the first she explained fairly thoroughly to me.  FWIW, she's living a rather down and out life at the moment.  She has no transportation, so she relies on various means to travel.  Again, I didn't press, because, in this case anyway, I don't want to know, yet.  I don't want to take on that emotional investment.  I can't.  It does me no good.  As for the guy she wants to be with, I really don't know what that means.  I know she has a fairly recent x who she says used her, but this might be someone else she is referring to.  Again, what good does it do to press when I have no business getting that personal right now.  You're right, though, I see the trapazoid, it's there for sure.  Maybe when I'm more available I'll be able to get to the bottom of it.  And, I guess, while on topic, I'm doing my best to avoid being a part of that trapazoid.  Communicating with her is a two-way street.  Neither she or I really communicate because it's pointless, like running into a brick wall over and over again.  All I can really say is, "Yep, I'm still here.  Nope, haven't moved.  Hope you're having a good day", etc. 

The familial aspect you mention is interesting, but I have trouble putting a finger on my own.  I was raised by my mother, who I do believe has a sort of smothering aspect about her.  I sensed it when I visited her a few weeks ago.  It felt neurotic.  She is a devout Christian, very conservative, and a good person overall.  We've had trouble relating over the years because I became a tad rebellious, possibly due to the fact that she couldn't relate with my teenage culture at the time.  I've grown up since then, no longer rebellious, and we get along fairly well now.  I'm not sure how her role in my life plays into my feelings for this woman, but I can tell you I definitely can see how it played into the role I felt with my current x.  She kind of took care of me as a mother would, if that makes sense.  It was kind of lopsided that way.  I sensed it long ago.  As for this other girl, I just don't know.  Probably, I would say the lack of a father plays more a role, because I'm not very masculine and somewhat passive.  Again, though, very consfuing to me in the context of the old/new girl.

One thing that developed the last couple of days is I told my current X that I need to leave sooner than later.  It is somewhat related to my feelings for the old/new girl, but moreso just my desire to be free.  And to be honest, it felt good.  This entire scenario needs to end.  It's dragged me down for too long.  It's like a shackle on my ankle that prevents me from living the life I want, whether it be to liberate me to pursue new/old girl, or to put distance between me and my current situation.  I just can't take it anymore.  I've been managing the situation the wrong way, I believe.  I've put too much emphasis on earning enough money, and not enough on my feelings, which are telling me to leave.  If I have to cut it shorter than originally planned with a few hundred dollars less in the nest egg, so be it.  There's no telling what can happen between now and then, and I might not make any fiscal progress at all, as is the case the past month when a slew of vehicle repairs took a chunk out of my egg.  I could stay here in an endless income/expense loop, never getting ahead, stuck here until the very last day possible, which at this point is still an uncertain date.  It's driving me mad.

And yes, it's true, I have been putting other people's feelings ahead of mine too much for too long.  It's hard to change that.  There's no other way to manage it than do what's best for me and let the cards fall where they may.

Thanks again for responding.  I probably missed a couple points, but there was a lot to take in at once.  I'll be back again, soon enough, I'm sure.

[David Dare]

Wanted to add... .

I just noticed the part where you suggest answering questions to myself.  Whoops!  Oh well, I don't mind typing outloud, as this is an anonymous forum.

[David Dare]

Just wanted to give an update, and vent some serious feelings I'm suffering through at the moment. 

For starters, the court date for the foreclosure hearing of this property came and went.  I'm now scouring the weekly local newspaper in search of a foreclosure declaration.  I just want it to end.  It is a yolk that has brought me down, prevented me from living the life I want to live, which brings me back to the girl I've been longing for but can't break away to go meet.  Call it a hunch, a reading of the proverbial tea leaves if you will, but I sense that the connection between us, that great moment of a few days, weeks, months when I felt she was mine again, has passed, and it makes me terribly sad. 

To be honest, I usually come and post under this thread whenever this feeling hits me.  I put myself in this position... .   a position of longing for something that I had no gaurantee of ever pursuing, and it just sucks.  I feel so alone, so disgusted by the dynamics of the timing of it all.  I think to myself, "what if I'd waited to reach out until the foreclosure was behind me?".  It's like someone somewhere is playing "You've lost that loving feeling", not because I have, but because she has.

So how do I know this?  Or, rather, how do I come to this conclusion?  We've had no pertinent direct communication in a while.  Like I mentioned, I don't want to do that, be in a position to make drastic moves while this foreclosure plays out.  For the record, the last direct conversation was of her griefing over her daughter not graduating from high school.  She didn't want to lay her stress on me, which I appreciate, but at the same time really didn't mind listening to her vent.

Anyway, despite the lack of direct communication, the Facebook train keeps chugging along, and I can sense through her posts that she's seeing or has tried to see someone and it didn't or isn't going well.  Yes, it's a no-brainer... . pull the plug, be done with it, and move on.  In my head I still rationalize that I expected this, that I made no commitment, but in my head I know that when the time comes I would seek her out, that a window of opporunity would arise. 

At any rate, I feel horrible, and decided to refrain from using Facebook for a while.  It's just too much for me, considering what I'm going through with the foreclosure.  I'm trying to escape, and perhaps have been escaping mentally for a very long time, just now coming to terms with it.  It's just so damn hard to let go.

I just had a moment of clarity while writing this that I'd like to share.  This girl, M, why do I like her so much?  She's the first woman who made me feel like a man.  Not sure what that means, but that's how I describe it.  She made me feel whole.  And that is fine and dandy, but looking deeper, I think that because that feeling is linked to her, I desperately long to feel it again, when I should be looking elsewhere?.?  It's like, the way she treated me, respected me, admired me, maybe played into narcissistic supply?  Could this be true?  I'm not saying I'm NPD, but rather my ego misses her and wants her back.  Maybe it is supply, but really, we hit it off well.  Maybe I'm clinging to the memory, the possibility, instead of just living in the now.  I mean, honestly, assuming she has or is working on a love interest, I'd rather she be happy with that than waiting around for me.  I'm not of the mindset that she has to be mine, period.  I just wanted a shot at something we couldn't pursue many years ago.

Anyway, I'm all over the place now... .   Thanks for reading.

[catsprt]

You may be getting to something. Once you are able to shed the story line that you may have created around what happened, you will found the process to be a source of growth. I have learnt to put aside what the other person may have contributed to the situation and only consider my part.

[livednlearned]

This girl, M, why do I like her so much?  She's the first woman who made me feel like a man.  Not sure what that means, but that's how I describe it.  She made me feel whole.  And that is fine and dandy, but looking deeper, I think that because that feeling is linked to her, I desperately long to feel it again, when I should be looking elsewhere?.? 

I think that's really, really insightful. I don't think anyone can make us whole. If they're able to do it for a while, I don't think it can last. And we just end up depending on someone else to provide what we ought to be able to feel on our own. That's why people recommend focusing on yourself before getting involved again. You're going through a very difficult, painful process right now with the foreclosure, and you're probably more susceptible to looking for someone to make you feel better.

[David Dare]

Thanks catsprt and livednlearned for the responses.  I tell you, just writing it out and receiving these responses really helps.  It's like I know in my head that what you both said is true, even before I write the post to begin with, but putting it out there and getting a response helps it sink in somehow.  I try so hard to let this all play out, the foreclosure, etc, without getting depressed about it, but it gets tough at times and I need to vent.  And, ugh, Facebook... .   I feel like I'm addicted to it, not just for this girl per se, but for my own enjoyment, posting pics, writing strange funny quips.  It's just a waste of time, though.  Anyway, thanks again.

[doubleAries]

David,

Being pretty codependent myself, some of the things you have said really jumped out me. I see some similarities in myself. No, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.

What I am beginning to learn (meaning I certainly don't have a handle on it yet) is that ALL OF THIS keeps going back to the same thing--over and over and over. BOUNDARIES.

I also tell waaaayyy too much right away. Start baring my soul before I even know if it's safe to do so. Why? Because I lack good stable boundaries. I also am attracted to impossible/unavailable situations. Because I lack boundaries and prefer "unrequited love" over rejection (the rejection likely coming from pushing myself on someone who feels overwhelmed by my deluge of personal information too soon and too all-at-once). When I tire of this dilemma, I hook up with someone who needs "help", so I can prove I'm valuable and worthy, and have "earned" their love (and my definition of "love" is a little skewed--it more often than not involves intensity over intimacy).

Are you seeing a counselor of some sort? I recommend it simply because these things are generally unconscious patterns-ingrained habits, which we try to "overcome" with conscious and/or emotional reactions/self reprimands. A counselor can be the uninvolved 3rd party who helps you develop new, more healthy patterns.

[David Dare]

David,

Being pretty codependent myself, some of the things you have said really jumped out me. I see some similarities in myself. No, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.

What I am beginning to learn (meaning I certainly don't have a handle on it yet) is that ALL OF THIS keeps going back to the same thing--over and over and over. BOUNDARIES.

I also tell waaaayyy too much right away. Start baring my soul before I even know if it's safe to do so. Why? Because I lack good stable boundaries. I also am attracted to impossible/unavailable situations. Because I lack boundaries and prefer "unrequited love" over rejection (the rejection likely coming from pushing myself on someone who feels overwhelmed by my deluge of personal information too soon and too all-at-once). When I tire of this dilemma, I hook up with someone who needs "help", so I can prove I'm valuable and worthy, and have "earned" their love (and my definition of "love" is a little skewed--it more often than not involves intensity over intimacy).

Are you seeing a counselor of some sort? I recommend it simply because these things are generally unconscious patterns-ingrained habits, which we try to "overcome" with conscious and/or emotional reactions/self reprimands. A counselor can be the uninvolved 3rd party who helps you develop new, more healthy patterns.

This post is very helpful, doubleAries.  What you mention about starting things to quickly, or divulging too much too soon, rings true for this scenario.  However, I should add, that it wasn't I who was opening up so quickly, but she, and there's the added wrinkle of the fact that we both already know each other from years ago, making it a little more comfortable.  We aren't complete atrangers, and we already have a history, a good history.

I sensed her opening up, not just about herself, but also the way she was evaluating me, qualifying me.  I knew it was going too fast, especially since I couldn't break away and do anything.  And I came to a point where I told myself I either keep going or stop, and I kept going, until later when I knew I had to back off.  For that brief time of openness I enjoyed it very much, it was great.  As for fixing her, or rescuing, this and that: when this foreclosure is final my life will be wide open to do what I want.  I'll be able to take it slow, and go from there. 

Also, the boundary topic is also ringing true for the foreclosure situation, how I stayed in it for so long, with my ex, and how I let her family trample my boundaries time and again.  It's a long story, but that frustration has been bubbling now and again the last few weeks.  It's like I'm being respectful of a situation I want nothing to do with, answering to someone who is already in my past, mentally, but still in the present. 

[doubleAries]

There came is this vividly remembered time in my life when the brick hit me in the face--I kept hooking up with relationships where, no matter how much I did, I was taken advantage of, and used until there was nothing left to take. Than The brick to the face--why are these people attracted to me, and more importantly, why am I attracted to them?

We grasp the BPD's dilemma with rejection/abandonment. Do we grasp that we have the same issue? Usually not, because we don't react the same way the BPD does to this fear. But it is still a core issue. And one of the commonalities that attracts us to them and them to us. The pain of being apart, and yet the repulsion of being consumed.

When the repulsion becomes overwhelming, we (or they) leave, and we try to do the same exact thing all over again with someone else. With pretty much the same results (which we can ignore if some of the minor details differ).

If the BPD's need us to suck dry, well, we need them to distract us from dealing with our OWN issues. The drama, the needs, the vulnerability, the victimhood--oh! what a fabulous distraction! It's so shiny and compelling! We can analyze them endlessly--what's wrong with them, what they are doing to us, and why--all while ignoring our own problems with self doubt, values and boundaries, self-worth, and codependency (great video here about codependency, counter dependency, and Dependent PD www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4P05S2QtwQ )

Obviously, you were open to her opening up too quickly, too much too soon. Why?

[winston72]

doubleAries... . you nailed it!

Aarrgh!  This is so spot on.  Thank you.  I am in therapy, trying to allow this pain to keep prying me open and facing all of what you have described... . it is so true.

[Grey Kitty]

  DD, I'm jumping into this thread pretty late.

I just thought I'd mention that I was seeing some  from this old flame you were reconnecting with at the start, and continued to see more of them. Most of them fit in the categories of being emotionally unavailable for a real relationship, and living a life where she doesn't really know what she wants or how to get it.

The real PI question is why were you so entranced by somebody who presented this way?

[David Dare]

Thanks for the replies doubleAries and Grey Kitty.  They really help.

@doubleAries - I wouldn't say I was necessarily accepting of her openness right away.  It didn't get there right away.  It started out really great.  I didn't sense anything out of the ordinary right away.  This is a girl I really admired from long ago and always wanted to reconnect with, so when it finally happened, I was overwhelmed with joy.  She was saying a lot of great things, how she thought of me a lot over the years, stuff like that.  And we were talking a lot, all the time, over the course of a few weeks.  Then, eventually, I pulled back because the inability to see her in person was causing terrible anxiety.  But yes, there was a definite point when I realized she was divulging too much, and like I said a couple times, I chose to just accept it, even though I know it felt wrong.  In a way, I perceived her openness as a sign of trust, that she was letting me into her personal thoughts.  But some of the stuff she was saying were things I'd rather not know.

And as you say, Grey Kitty, there are some red flags, and I am willing to admit that now.  Especially after the last few days, I hate to say it, but she may very well be BPD, or PD of some sort and it's breaking my heart.  She is distant now, emotionally, and when I pried she went off the handle.  Some of that is my fault, I will admit that I have been a tad forceful as the time when I can actually break away and see her draws nearer, trying to re-establish open communication before I had to pull away.  Now, it seems may never see her, which saddens me.  I keep telling myself, ":)ave don't do this to rescue her, just go see her, take a short vacation and go see her."  It's what I've wanted to do for years.  But if she doesn't want that, or can't figure out what she wants, then, sigh... .    I just have to accept it and move on.

Sadness... .    great sadness.

[Grey Kitty]

DD, Yes it is sad. But I think she is telling you that she isn't ready to give you the sort of relationship you want to have.

Consider: If I was in a r/s with a person and I "pushed too hard for intimacy" what response do I want/expect?

A honest conversation where I'm told that I need to back off a bit to make her feel comfortable

Pulling away suddenly and harshly without any explanation

In the long run it is better for her to tell you clearly (in the only way she can) that she isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want to be in. (Hmmm... . having my own PI moment, as I'm in a r/s where I get more of the   than the   version. But I digress. Perhaps I'll have to start my own thread about this later, and probably on the dating board)

[David Dare]

DD, Yes it is sad. But I think she is telling you that she isn't ready to give you the sort of relationship you want to have.

Consider: If I was in a r/s with a person and I "pushed too hard for intimacy" what response do I want/expect?

A honest conversation where I'm told that I need to back off a bit to make her feel comfortable

Pulling away suddenly and harshly without any explanation

In the long run it is better for her to tell you clearly (in the only way she can) that she isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want to be in. (Hmmm... . having my own PI moment, as I'm in a r/s where I get more of the   than the   version. But I digress. Perhaps I'll have to start my own thread about this later, and probably on the dating board)

That's a good way to put it, Grey Kitty.  After I posted today, I thought about what I said about her possibly being PD, and I thought, man, that was not right for me to say.  It shows I'm focusing on her and not me.  She's doing what she's gotta do.  I'm projecting my pain, blaming her for not being satisfactory to me. 

I was also thinking, where I may have made a crucial error is by confusing being *single* with being *available*.  They are not the same thing. She said she was single, but that doesn't mean she's available.

I should admit, too, that I think I opened up more than she did, and that was also a mistake.  I suffocated her with details of my life she probably wish she hadn't known.  It's just so dang hard, man, dealing with feelings.  I wanted to explain my point of view, but I did so in the wrong way.  Ugh... .

[Grey Kitty]

Ah well... . chalk it up as a learning experience.

And be glad you did figure it out with somebody who was single but not really available--you could have made a mess out of something with a lot more potential!

[GreenMango]

confusing being *single* with being *available*.

Wise words.

I like reading about relationships and emotional maturity.  I think many people can't tell the difference or are unclear how to discern what it really means to be emotionally available and identify what they really need in a partner to find a healthy fit.

Trying to teach myself this stuff has really helped to limit the wrong kind of person from my life and to be more open to the right kind of person.

[David Dare]

A good few weeks have passed since my last post, and a lot of discoveries have been made.  I finally have all the details I needed to know about this foreclosure - how it will affect me, when I will be moving, etc.  I've also made peace with a lot of the emotional stuff that comes with that.  I'm ready to move, basically.

As for the old/new girl, that interest has all but completely died.  I'm pretty sure that us reuniting in person isn't going to happen, for various reasons.  It's hard to explain, I'm not sure if it matters.  But I will say this: when I was presented that fork in the road which I wrote about in previous entries in this thread, I should have pulled away.  It was my first intuition, and I should have went with it.  Perhaps then I wouldn't have held onto to something that really wasn't there at that time, something I couldn't act on and still can't.  It added stress to the courtship process.  In a way, I kick myself, because I believed it sullied what could have been an amazing reunion, but life goes on.

As the interest began to fizzle I had a hard time letting go.  It took time, virtual (online) space apart, her backing away, and some long conversations with a friend to really see what was happening - how I'd reacted to the situation from the beginning, and why I clung on.  A lot of it stems from codependency, as much as I believe I overcame that.  She was/is a familiar voice that brought great memories and feelings, however, she is from a time in my life when I was heavily codependent.  In a way, the reconnection was like a backdoor virus that breached some boundary firewalls.  Even though I am more sensitive to codependency now, more aware of it, once I was sucked in I was helplessly trapped, when instead, like I already said, I should have backed off for a while.

So as I come out of the fantasy (which persists to a degree but is fading), I look back on the past few months and notice some similarities between how I, a Non, acting during that and how I'd behaved during my stint with uBPDx some 4 years ago.  The one that really sticks out for me is this belief that I somehow created this new artificial self.  It's hard to describe. 

Well, I guess a good point to start with IS the fantasy.  Again, I was whisked away, thinking of how great life would be once I finally turned that last corner.  I should say, though, that this was much different in that with uBPDx it seemed a new corner presented itself at least once a day, where as with this it was just one big corner, being me finally able to break free to meet her.  The fantasy consumed me, changed me, although it didn't quite break me like it did with uBPDx. 

This part I'm not really sure how to explain.  Maybe it's not a new self, but it felt like one.  The anxiety produced from the ordeal created this strange form of stress.  It affected my mentality.  Man, so hard to describe.  It's like I wasn't here, that all that mattered to me was what was in my head.  I wish I could describe this better!

Anyway, maybe after some more thought I can put something sensible together and post it, but for now I think it's safe to say that I'm recovering from a relationship that was completely psychological, never even saw her, and it's going fairly well and am a bit dumbstruck as to how I reacted throughout.

Have a good day.

[David Dare]

After a good sleep I think I can better describe what I mean to say.  It's like the idea of the trinity, 2 coming together to become 1.  It kinda happened in this scenario, really fast, maybe because of the great history we shared and all the great things she was saying in the moment.  Once it's created, this mental/emotional image of the two of us having a good time, being open with each other, that image became what I negotiated with, not just between she and I, but between me and myself as well.  It became a priority. 

As I negotiated with this image in my head, negotiating with the real her and real me just didn't happen.  For example, I made a commitment that when I was ready I would come and see her.  I don't think the real her accepted that commitment, but the one in my head did.  And the stuff I would say to her wasn't coming from the real me, sensible me, but from that image.  It was like a switch flipped and I because someone else, which perhaps explains that moment of warmth that I mentioned earlier. 

In retrospect, I continue to be amazed at the self-discoveries I make of being human, dealing with feelings and other people.  I just need to start sticking to my guns.

[livednlearned]

A good few weeks have passed since my last post, and a lot of discoveries have been made.  I finally have all the details I needed to know about this foreclosure - how it will affect me, when I will be moving, etc.  I've also made peace with a lot of the emotional stuff that comes with that.  I'm ready to move, basically.

As for the old/new girl, that interest has all but completely died.  I'm pretty sure that us reuniting in person isn't going to happen, for various reasons.  It's hard to explain, I'm not sure if it matters.  But I will say this: when I was presented that fork in the road which I wrote about in previous entries in this thread, I should have pulled away.  It was my first intuition, and I should have went with it.  Perhaps then I wouldn't have held onto to something that really wasn't there at that time, something I couldn't act on and still can't.  It added stress to the courtship process.  In a way, I kick myself, because I believed it sullied what could have been an amazing reunion, but life goes on.

As the interest began to fizzle I had a hard time letting go.  It took time, virtual (online) space apart, her backing away, and some long conversations with a friend to really see what was happening - how I'd reacted to the situation from the beginning, and why I clung on.  A lot of it stems from codependency, as much as I believe I overcame that.  She was/is a familiar voice that brought great memories and feelings, however, she is from a time in my life when I was heavily codependent.  In a way, the reconnection was like a backdoor virus that breached some boundary firewalls.  Even though I am more sensitive to codependency now, more aware of it, once I was sucked in I was helplessly trapped, when instead, like I already said, I should have backed off for a while.

So as I come out of the fantasy (which persists to a degree but is fading), I look back on the past few months and notice some similarities between how I, a Non, acting during that and how I'd behaved during my stint with uBPDx some 4 years ago.  The one that really sticks out for me is this belief that I somehow created this new artificial self.  It's hard to describe. 

Well, I guess a good point to start with IS the fantasy.  Again, I was whisked away, thinking of how great life would be once I finally turned that last corner.  I should say, though, that this was much different in that with uBPDx it seemed a new corner presented itself at least once a day, where as with this it was just one big corner, being me finally able to break free to meet her.  The fantasy consumed me, changed me, although it didn't quite break me like it did with uBPDx. 

This part I'm not really sure how to explain.  Maybe it's not a new self, but it felt like one.  The anxiety produced from the ordeal created this strange form of stress.  It affected my mentality.  Man, so hard to describe. 

Anyway, maybe after some more thought I can put something sensible together and post it, but for now I think it's safe to say that I'm recovering from a relationship that was completely psychological, never even saw her, and it's going fairly well and am a bit dumbstruck as to how I reacted throughout.

Have a good day.

DD, that was really well written. I completely understand what you're talking about. Especially this:

It's like I wasn't here, that all that mattered to me was what was in my head

I reconnected with an old bf after divorcing N/BPDxh and this exact scenario happened to me. Old bf was long distance, too. When I realized how unhealthy things were, the withdrawal was devastating. I've never withdrawn from drugs, but that's what it felt like to unplug from the fantasy.

It was absolutely critical for me to go through that, tho. When I started dating someone (going on 8 months now), I knew how to tell the difference between what was fantasy and what was real. There is no fantasy with this r/s, and I think that makes it possible for me to have real intimacy.

[David Dare]

In order to help me turn the page, I'm writing a goodbye letter, doing so here.  Sharing it with her would probably be pointless, but I gotta get this off my chest:

":)ear M,

Reconnecting after so many years was simply amazing.  The wonderful compliments you shared about how you felt back then validated not only my feelings from then, but many hunches that accumulated over the years.  You missed me as I have missed you.  It was so great to know that you're still out there thinking of me after all this time.  It unlocked a part of me that laid dormant for years.

As you continued to be sweet and kind it pulled me in a direction I desperately wanted to travel, but could not.  I should have backed away to take care of my own business, but didn't.  You sounded so sad and lonely that it broke my heart.  I thought that if I stuck around then maybe I could keep making you smile, brightening your day in subtle ways: a text, a pic of flowers, a poem.   

Unfortunately, time and distance have a way of casting doubt, creating miscommunication, which burdens the spirit.  You shared that you are in a dark place right now, unhappy with life.  As I'm not aware of the exact cause, I am still sorry that your life took the turns that got you to this point.  Hopefully you will find your way out, because that time we were able to communicate openly did brighten those days for me.  That's why it was so hard for me to let go.

So I'm letting go, to take care of myself again.  Your problems are not mine for me to solve, nor should I impose a desire to see you when you're not available.  Perhaps hearing from me had a simlar effect on you, because you did state that you'd like to meet, seemed happy, but apparantly it was temporary.  After a while, I could tell something was wrong, that you're struggling with something incomprehensible by me from so far away.  If my intentions about us were miscommunicated over the past few months, I apologize.  I just wanted to see you again, something I'd longed to do after all these years.

Thank you for being honest, open, and reminding me of that great time we shared.

Yours Truly,

D"

[catsprt]

I have no answers, only questions. Could it be possible that the letter allows you to accept that it was all a construction, yours to begin with? The letter sounds a bit like a narration in a story. In the film of life, you would be the narrator. As a person, she is absent and only lives in as a character.

I have no answer, as I am wondering (in my case) what my emotions represent. I wrote a letter earlier today that I will not send. What if due to a lack of communication and immaturity there never was anything to begin with? How would you react if I told you that I went to the butcher to buy flowers... . You would probably advise me to go to a flower shop and the story would end there. I am no expert in the subject of love but may be it is based on a mutual understanding and communication. Once the story telling starts it is not between two people any more ... .

[David Dare]

I have no answers, only questions. Could it be possible that the letter allows you to accept that it was all a construction, yours to begin with? The letter sounds a bit like a narration in a story. In the film of life, you would be the narrator. As a person, she is absent and only lives in as a character.

I have no answer, as I am wondering (in my case) what my emotions represent. I wrote a letter earlier today that I will not send. What if due to a lack of communication and immaturity there never was anything to begin with? How would you react if I told you that I went to the butcher to buy flowers... . You would probably advise me to go to a flower shop and the story would end there. I am no expert in the subject of love but may be it is based on a mutual understanding and communication. Once the story telling starts it is not between two people any more ... .

As for me, and I'm sure many others, writing things out helps process, or maybe expel the feelings being expressed.  It's more than just writing, for me, though, it takes at least 1 good night's sleep to really let it process.  I used to write a lot more, about more trivial matters, and I always feel better afterward.  That's why I like coming here and writing out the mess that's in my head.  It also helps to have others respond, helps validate how I feel, and I appreciate everyone's input.

It's true, though, that it seems like a story narration.  Are any 2 people ever on the same page, living the same story?  Maybe during moments, like people at a sporting event.  Everyone is watching the same thing, maybe rooting for a different team, but still taking in the event in the moment.  Then the moment is over and everyone goes their seperate way, some people happy that their team won, others upset that theirs lost. 

In the context of relationships, man, that is so tough.  I am coming out of a long term one right now, and wonder if we were ever fully on the same page.  Maybe that's where compromise comes in.  We accept that the other has different needs, even if we don't understand or agree.  I guess as long as the compromise isn't too overwhelming for the other, then they are on the same page.

For this particular scenario in which I wrote this letter, I would say we were on the same page for a while, but I held on too long.  Who knows, things may change, she may come around.  Maybe I am willing to try too hard, make too much compromise, more than she.  I really don't know.  But something is not adding up, and I'm okay with that now, maybe not 100%, but much more than I was a week or so ago.  The thought of things going bad, for lack of better term, popped in my head a while ago, it just takes time to accept it on an emotional level for me.  At any rate, thanks for the response.

[catsprt]

Expressing and receiving validation are so fundamental to our human nature. Regarding relationships, I am hopeful that two people can be on the same page. In the past, I trusted him and I filled the blanks, I wrote the story instead of being in it.

I am glad that you are feeling ok and wish you well.

[GreenMango]

Nice letter!

[David Dare]

So the summer has ended, the foreclosure has come and gone, I am now moved, and am truly single for the first time in a very long time.  Despite my desire to completely remove myself from the old/new girl, I hung around and stayed in contact, nothing too serious for a while.  Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

Again, as i probably have mentioned numerous times in this thread, I am completely dumbfounded as to how I let this scenario unfold to the point where I let this girl into my head and heart so deeply.  It's so crazy, it's like a switch just flipped and a lot of work I had done to recover from my uBPDx 4 years ago - recognizing and enforcing boundaries, ending the ruminating, healing, basically - became unraveled.  Not completely, but enough for this to hurt.

I do believe, although she hasn't come out and said it, that she is hung up on someone, courting them, being courted, etc.  It's not my business, and I'm trying not to care about it, but I believe that's the case.  I also believe, though, that she may fear me, fear seeing me... .   I just don't know.  I sense an inferiority complex of some sort, she saying that I would not be impressed by her on more than one occasion.  At any rate, I'm just trying to flush this out of my system, it's really myself who I need to worry about the most. 

Guuuuh... . I'm tired of these romantic situations ending up like this.  It's ridiculous.  And it's all in my head.  Reading this thread over from the beginning helps.  I think it's a good idea to write this stuff out as it happens, to get a timeline of events and put things into perspective.

[doubleAries]

I hear ya!

I'm just all about staying single myself right now, not even casual dating or anything. Spending the time instead working on myself, and the questions I've asked myself before and need to ask again--"why am I attracted to this kind of stuff?" etc.

Maybe one of the answers is learning how to be friends with people instead. That's an important part of an intimate relationship anyway.

[livednlearned]

Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

What was going on for you that made you reach out to her?

[David Dare]

Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

What was going on for you that made you reach out to her?

We'd been playing games online and flirting a bit, and I gave it one last try.  A part of me is grieving, and a part of me says you only live once.  So I tried.  I dunno.  Really hard to explain the dynamic, but definitely not an open communication type of one.  More like serious cat and mouse.  At any rate, yeah, it's in my head and I gotta just deal with it.

[David Dare]

I finally unfriended the old/new girl from Facebook.  It is a sad day for me.  I think that's part of my problem, I didn't want to mourn the loss of someone who I felt so strongly for.  She's not dead, but lost from my life, forever even.  That is such a strange thought to me.  And it's so crazy to me how all these feelings got ramped up and I never even saw her in person. 

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, it really is sad to realize that what you want from somebody isn't something they have to offer.

   GK

[livednlearned]

I finally unfriended the old/new girl from Facebook.  It is a sad day for me.  I think that's part of my problem, I didn't want to mourn the loss of someone who I felt so strongly for.  She's not dead, but lost from my life, forever even.  That is such a strange thought to me.  And it's so crazy to me how all these feelings got ramped up and I never even saw her in person. 

Yah, when I went through something similar (reconnecting to old b/f without ever actually seeing him again) I told my T it felt like drug withdrawal. She said physiologically, it is the same thing.

I'm beginning to think a huge part of my dysfunction has been living in fantasy worlds I build in my head. Either that, or constantly seeking them out in real life. If it was a bad fantasy, I would feel anxiety. If it was a good fantasy, I would feel an almost compulsive attraction, or even adrenaline, which made me ignore the danger or pain.

When I stopped letting myself build fantasies, I had to wade through a whole bunch of painful feelings. I'm not done sorting my way through all of them, but enough to realize now that a lot of what I was doing before wasn't real.

You know how people here always say that other people are boring? I finally realized that it's me who is boring     Kinda hurt going through that process... .actually, it hurt like h@ll. But now it seems almost funny. I don't know why I was so afraid to feel my feelings. Being boring and lonely isn't nearly as awful as I thought it was going to be.