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Author Topic: Stopping circular arguments when it isn't possible.  (Read 412 times)
angeldust1
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« on: June 28, 2013, 05:57:54 PM »

I'm reading a lot about communication,  esp. circular arguments.  We have all had them at one time or another if you have a pwBPD in your life.  But can anyone help explain how this could have been avoided?    

I called my pwBPD40 to invite him to a family function.  Just a casual party to have fun.  He had not responded to my earlier calls,  so I thought I'd try one last time.  

As soon as the conversation began,  I could tell it  was definitely going in the wrong direction.  I picked up on it,  right away.  Thought... . well I will just end this now,  before it's too late.  I politely tried to hang up without a shouting match.  He called right back I do not answer,  he calls a second time, a third.  By then he knew I was not  going to answer,  and for good reason, so for him to get in his last bit of anger out of his system,  for what ever reason,  he resorted to a text that I got a blasted hard enough to hear the explosion,    the venom was so spewing everywhere.   I didn't respond because I simply could not believe what he was saying for something that must have been on his mind before I even  called,   and being chastised with such cruelty.  He got say to what he wanted and I had to just leave it  in the air with him telling me he never wanted to see or speak to me for the rest of my life.  It has been that way for 1&1/2 years.

What part of this argument did I play into?  I was politely inviting him to a party.    I did,  what I thought I should.  End the circle,  but he had to complete it I suppose.  To this day he is still not speaking to me,  and I just ignored the horrible words that drove the knife in my heart so deep.  

As unfair as it was for me to endure,  endure it... . I did,  and did not respond.  How could this have been avoided with having text involved.  He knew I would get his horrible message,  and he was happy.

I ended it  as I should have!   Can anyone enlighten me a little?
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griz
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 05:15:08 PM »

I think you tried to handle this in the best way possible by ending the conversation when you saw it going down hill.  I don't know any way to stop someone from texting you other than to let them know that in the future as soon as you start to read a text that is in such a tone you will delete it and not continue to read.  Will you be baraged with texts? maybe or what you can do is let him know that the next time he texts you in such a fashion you will block his number from your phone.  I actually had to do this with a friend a few years ago prior to my knowing about BPD.  It is clear to me now that that is what I was dealing with however I didn't know it at the time.  I ended up blocking her from calling or texting my phone and I had to block her from my facebook as well as her emails are sent directly to spam.

You need to protect yourself from the onslaught.

Griz
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heronbird
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 03:42:25 AM »

I believe everything is possible, I dont think I will achieve anything by settling for no for an answer. I think we all have to adopt this when we love someone with BPD.

It has to be possible, there has to be a way.

The other day I was listening to a talk on schizophrenia, they mentioned treatment resistant schizophrenia. Thats called taking no for an answer, I thought. There has to be a way, just has to be.
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angeldust1
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 08:34:57 AM »

Yes, I would certainly like to think that no is not the answer,  but it's been a year and a half since I've heard from him,  and I really think he means no. I've texted  him on special occasions,  but only with an ugly text in return.  He doesn't want anything to do with me.  I have to

"RADICALLY ACCEPT THAT".   I do grieve for him,  but not the treatment.

I deleted his phone no. ,  so I would be sure not to every accidently call him,  because he emphatically said he did not ever me or my family to ever  call him again.  Like my family is not his.  But his father had the same mind set,  my family was the enemy.  I can't help but think that was a learned behavior.  I feel he had BPD among other things,  many other things. But... . my sister and brother have called him and he did answer their calls.  So I guess that is a bit of a silver lining in that dark cloud.  

For now,  I just let things be as they are,  I will see him at my grandsons BD party,  and hopefully I will have learned enough tools to possibly carry on some semblance of a conversation with him.  If not,  I will just leave it in Gods hands and in his time.  
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Kate4queen
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 05:44:19 PM »

You can only do your part. You can't make him do his. That's just how it is unfortunately. My son will only email and text his father now, and tries not to even refer to me in his communications as his mother, sometimes I am 'your wife'.

I know why, because he can't deal with the terrible things he said to me, can't apologize for them because in his reality they are the TRUTH and the only way he can live with himself and his pain is by having me be the evil one. I get that now and I won't play into it.

Your son probably is used to you being the one person he can vent to and now that you are setting up your boundaries it's going to get worse before it gets better. In his heart, he probably knows he's wrong but I suspect like my son he'll never be able to admit that-(that lack of self worth and fear of abandonment which is at the root of BPD means he cannot and to survive he has to believe you are the bad person) When you think of it like that, you have to realize you're not playing the same game and the stakes for him are so much higher that he's going to lash out and hurt you as much as he is hurting inside himself.

So with that in mind, nothing you could've said would've been right because it's not about you at all. You were just the unfortunate means for him to lash out some of his pain. Protect yourself and keep your boundaries. I've had to do that. It doesn't mean that I don't love my son or want him to come back to me but his reality isn't mine and I can't change it. If your son only wants to use you as a punching bag at the moment, you are perfectly entitled not to let him.
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vivekananda
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 06:59:40 PM »

angeldust, hi   

I am so pleased for you that you are 'changing' how you do things... . and yes it is a great big challenge that requires strength from us. The rewards are worth it though, it can bring balance to our lives and has the chance to improve our relationship with our children.

I found when dh and I implemented boundaries and stuck to them, this had repercussions that were sad, but the result has made things better for us. We were clear on our values and why we implemented the boundaries, so we know we are doing the right thing. Also, and very importantly, we explained what we were doing and why and we left the door open to 'negotiate' them at some stage (our boundaries mainly involve money) - and we have been able to 'negotiate' them too. Nevertheless when we implemented the boundaries there was a strong negative reaction from her and she still doesn't like it.

I learnt how important it is to give 'warning' regarding the boundary before it is to be implemented. Otherwise it seems more like a punishment than a boundary.

I learnt that at 32 my dd is firmly entrenched in her thinking and it will take a long time for her to change without 'proper therapy'. So, while I continue to work on myself and how I respond, I cannot guarantee that my dd will be open to my changes... . that this will also take time (there was 32 years of my usual responses, I can't expect the change in our relationship to occur 'overnight'.

I learnt that while I continue to try to improve my relationship with my dd, that the changes I implement in myself are to my benefit. So while I can get frustrated at times, I know this is to my own personal advantage and adds value to my relationships with others.

I learnt that sometimes I do my best and it is not good enough. That if I sit back and reflect maybe later I can make sense of what happened and if I could have done something different. I have learnt that if I initiate contact with my dd, I do so in a text where my words are written, I keep my message really simple so It can't be misunderstood. And if I don't get a reply (which is often the case), I just let it go... . and accept it.

I learnt, that doing what you are doing and coming on to the boards here was the best and easiest way for me to hone my skills and get good feedback.

All of us here are with you Angel,

Vivek    
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angeldust1
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2013, 11:21:41 PM »

Vivek  & Kate,

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom,  yes I am trying desperately to change the way I deal with him,  and I suppose it is hard for him to understand.  

I also assume that is why I was lashed out at,  so cruely  and am being isolated for such a long time.  But I just refuse to  subject myself to anymore of his abuse. I took it for 20 long years from his father,  and he learned very well... . As for my son,    I used to take anything he dished out,  just to see him,  because I missed him so much.  But that is not longer the case,  I realize that no contact,  as hard as it is,    it is easier than the  mental abuse and the disrespect! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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