Live in GF has BPD. I want out.

[fft524]

My live-in GF has BPD, and I need to get out of the situation to protect myself. The apartment is in my name only, I pay all the bills... . she is a full time student and helped out by cleaning, laundry, etc. She has done some pretty terrible things and lied extensively to cover her tracks out of guilt and the knowledge that I'd leave/break up if I found out. When I try to discuss the situation, it leads to insults, storming out, threatening to leave, etc. Verbal abuse sucks. She lost her key, so I had the locks changed. She's been spending more and more time with her mother at her place, which I see as a good thing. She has threatened to leave, and even started packing. I tried to help, at her request, and was told not to touch her stuff. It's horribly toxic, and I want out. She's in between mood swings at the moment, so things are back to normal... . for her. I'm deeply hurt, sad, and disappointed. I've already started withdrawing from her, and it obviously bothers her. She's redoubled her efforts to draw me back in. Intuitively, she knows what's coming. I have to get out to protect myself, but despite everything, I do have empathy for the girl. She really is a very good person, she just has a 5000 pound gorilla on her back. I can't separate the two, I can't fix it, and I can't stay. Many friends, and even my T have suggested just boxing up her things and leaving them at her parents' place, no warning, just an "it's over, don't come back." That seems awfully impersonal and cold, especially in light of the fact that I'm leaving someone who already has very low self-worth and crushing guilt and shame. I've tried very very hard to tell and show her that she IS worthy of being loved, that she IS a good person, but she has to believe it for herself. I'm just her boyfriend, not her counselor (she refuses to talk to one), and I've done everything I can do. I just want to get out of this with as little additional pain or damage (on either of our parts) as possible. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Perfidy]

Hello there fft524. Hope you are doing well.

You know your situation better than anyone else that you will ever talk to. You will do whatever you will do no matter what anyone tells you.

That being said, I was at that very point a long time ago. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have done whatever was necessary to end the relationship however I could. Knowing what I know now and having endured 7 and a half years of madness I would have ended it and not even worried about how she felt about it. If I had known how crappy I would ultimately feel as a result of the toxicity and the length of time that it takes to get over it... . IT ISN'T WORTH IT!

Sorry about the screaming!

[Learning_curve74]

It's horribly toxic, and I want out. She's in between mood swings at the moment, so things are back to normal... . for her. I'm deeply hurt, sad, and disappointed. I've already started withdrawing from her, and it obviously bothers her. She's redoubled her efforts to draw me back in. Intuitively, she knows what's coming. I have to get out to protect myself, but despite everything, I do have empathy for the girl. She really is a very good person, she just has a 5000 pound gorilla on her back. I can't separate the two, I can't fix it, and I can't stay. Many friends, and even my T have suggested just boxing up her things and leaving them at her parents' place, no warning, just an "it's over, don't come back." That seems awfully impersonal and cold, especially in light of the fact that I'm leaving someone who already has very low self-worth and crushing guilt and shame. I've tried very very hard to tell and show her that she IS worthy of being loved, that she IS a good person, but she has to believe it for herself. I'm just her boyfriend, not her counselor (she refuses to talk to one), and I've done everything I can do. I just want to get out of this with as little additional pain or damage (on either of our parts) as possible. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

fft524, you sound exactly like I felt about my BPDex! I didn't want to give up on her, I felt so much empathy for her because of her mental illness and other baggage, and yes, she was at times a great sweet person that I really loved. Her self esteem was so low, so I always tried to encourage her. But some friends and even a counselor told me to just dump her, and the longer it went on before we broke up, the more devastating it would be emotionally for both of us. I couldn't do it when I was first told, but I reached the point where I knew I couldn't stay unless I were to give up who I am only for her sake.

One way to detach slowly and gently is by reducing the amount of time together, although sometimes that triggers the BPD to jump on the next train ASAP. This approach is more difficult if you live together since you'll see each other all the time you both are at home. It may sound cold, but if you're 100% sure this is the end, sometimes just ripping the bandage off in one swift motion is painful but much less painful than trying to slowly pull it off. If you do this, make sure to protect yourself by making sure she can't get back into your place and be ready for anything. She may try to convince everybody you are the bad guy with a smear campaign, she may call and text you all the time, she may stalk you, she may threaten suicide. You need to have a strategy to handle any of her possible responses. Good luck.

[Aussie0zborn]

You sound like a nice guy but nice guys finish last. We understand your feelings more than anyone else could, so I feel for you. The reality is that you can save yourself a LOT of grief by ending it now.

I did all the nice guy stuff but today myBPD wife was canoodling with her lover in the court room. Made me sick, not because he looks like a slug but because anything I did for her is not just forgotten, but denied too. It is highly unlikely you will get any real thanks for anything you do for her.

You will feel a lot worse when she claims half of your house. Oh, that won't happen to you? Yeah, right. That's what so many of us said.

Save yourself the grief, end it with empathy and involve her parents if possible so that there are no accusations against you. You will then have the time and space to heal. I wish you luck and I hope you come out of it not blaming yourself or being in the position that so many of us are in.

[fft524]

From what you're all saying, and from everything I'm reading, it sounds like a quick, unexpected break is the only humane way to go... . for either of us. I hate the thought of doing it that way, and honestly, I hate the thought of ending this, but it obviously isn't healthy. I shouldn't have to be considering an escape plan for a breakup, I shouldn't be considering moving so she can't find me, I shouldn't be having to go through this much discomfort in or out of a relationship. Breaking up sucks anyway, but this is a whole new level of twisted. (Disclaimer: that's not a value judgement on her or anyone else, just my assessment of the overall situation.) We haven't been together a year yet, and things just got bad within the past month and a half, but I can already tell that this is extremely detrimental, toxic, and potentially outright dangerous. Anyone have any suggestions on how to work up the courage to actually carry out the breakup/moving her out? I know intuitively with 100% certainty that it has to happen, and very soon, but I also know that it's going to be painful and traumatic during and probably for a while afterwards. I'm trying to plan for worst-case scenarios (e.g. suicide threats, showing up at my work/home, smear campaigns, etc.), and it scares the hell out of me. I've started finding the clarity I'm looking for as far as why she did what she did, but now it's a matter of how to proceed while protecting myself and attempting to minimize the trauma on us both. Help!

[catnap]

If she has a key to the new lock, have it re-keyed, or changed again.  This protects you from sudden visits.  The other thing to protect yourself from is to never be alone with her. . .many members here have been falsely accused of domestic violence.

Box up her things, and take them to her parent's house.  Please have a third party (non-relative) adult go with you.  This is a precaution to give you a reliable witness. 

While this may seem cold and heartless, it is about protecting you.

Long story short. . .my son was in similar situation (only him on lease and paid all of the bills) his attorney advised him to do the exact thing--change locks and pack up her stuff.  The only difference is that he placed her things in a storage unit and had a third party (private process server) give her the key and a TRO (temporary restraining order).

[bpdspell]

I can't separate the two, I can't fix it, and I can't stay. Many friends, and even my T have suggested just boxing up her things and leaving them at her parents' place, no warning, just an "it's over, don't come back." That seems awfully impersonal and cold, especially in light of the fact that I'm leaving someone who already has very low self-worth and crushing guilt and shame.

You are correct. You cannot separate BPD from the person that she is. Her and her BPD are one and the same. BPD is a character disordered and is emotionally hardwired into their personality. If we are to be with them their BPD comes with the package.

What's awfully impersonal and cold is the way the treat us: the cheating, the lies, the manipulation, and all the hurt they cause. That's what's cold and impersonal. While we may have compassion for their disorder your guilt will not fix an impossible situation. BPD is not your burden to carry.

Packing up her things sounds like the way to go; particularly because you are paying all the bills. Her manipulation of the inevitable breakup is only buying her time and wearing down your emotional decision to take better care of you. You deserve to have peace and you are entitled to end this toxic dance.

Spell

[fft524]

It got reinforced to me yesterday and this morning that leaving has to happen soon. She berated me for a good 20 minutes because I got home five minutes before I said I would. She couldn't accept the fact that I got home early thanks to traffic being not as bad as usual. That only took 45 minutes to clear up. She's been staying with me at night, but leaves when I do because she lost her key (God knows where), and I had the keycode changed and didn't get her a new one. She spent 40 minutes today calling me every name in the book because I wouldn't give her mine; she was mad because she was headed to her mom's house (5 mins away) anyway to work out, and would have to take a shower there instead of coming back to my place. To be fair, I understand her frustration and why the situation is kind of ridiculous, but she can't or won't understand my point of view. It's like the complete betrayal of my trust that she perpetrated never happened. To make it worse, she's lying and gaslighting her mom, who's doing it secondhand to me (perhaps not realizing it.) At least I see it for what it is... . She left this morning with a barrage of insults and an ultimatum that either I give her a key or she's moving back in with her mom. (One can only hope.) She throws me sometimes, because she's very intelligent and can be well-spoken and logical, but then the BPD part of her mind comes out and it's like a switch flipped. I'm (obviously) not going to give her a key, and I'm goin g to give her a chance to follow through on her threat to move out. I just want her gone, and am trying to find the courage to do it. I'm also very concerned about how this will affect my future relationships; I took several huge leaps of faith with her, and the rocks at the bottom of that cliff are hard and pointy.

[Perfidy]

The edge will be softened for you if you take a more proactive part. The passiveness will lead you more into suffering. Trust me on this one. If you wait for her to dump you the pain will be magnified. It's over and you know it. Don't suffer more than you have to. Pain is mandatory suffering is optional. Good luck I hope all goes well.

[eyvindr]

fft --

I'm really sorry to hear that you're dealing with this. It's all so disruptive, and familiar, sadly.

The good thing is that it does sound like you're thinking clearly, and recognizing things for what they are -- serious dysfunctional behaviors caused by the illness.

From what you're all saying, and from everything I'm reading, it sounds like a quick, unexpected break is the only humane way to go... . for either of us. I hate the thought of doing it that way, and honestly, I hate the thought of ending this, but it obviously isn't healthy.

You aren't alone. So very very many of us have felt the same thing -- as you clearly say later:

Breaking up sucks anyway, but this is a whole new level of twisted. (Disclaimer: that's not a value judgement on her or anyone else, just my assessment of the overall situation.)

And here:

I shouldn't have to be considering an escape plan for a breakup , I shouldn't be considering moving so she can't find me , I shouldn't be having to go through this much discomfort in or out of a relationship .  We haven't been together a year yet, and things just got bad within the past month and a half, but I can already tell that this is extremely detrimental , toxic , and potentially outright dangerous .

You're seeing the red flags flying wild and free -- don't ignore them!

You sound like a decent person, trying not to hurt someone you clearly care about. But you have to take care of yourself. Best wishes for a smooth outcome.

[Dire Wolf]

Wow.

Perfidy, you said it perfectly: Pain is mandatory suffering is optional.

FFT: Of course there is pain with the break up of a relationship. It is because you care. The problem is that there is so much "noise" created by the BPD that a reasonable and swift break up that will be cooperative is likely impossible.

I agree that you need to take the lead and be proactive. You know what to expect with the tantrums. But heck, it sounds like you are dealing with them now anyway --- and she still lives with you. Once she is gone you can start to heal. But this limbo stage is torture. We know your pain but you need to bite the bullet.

Good luck.

Dire Wolf

[GreenMango]

As far as my experience, once you make this decision commit to it.  Lock it in.  Chisel it to stone. 

Going back and forth - breaking up and getting back together just makes it more traumatizing.  Imagine the pain you feel now and magnify it by 1000.

There is a way to make the decision immediately but do the slow escape.  It tends to trigger a person like this less.  You can still change the locks and start to put yourself first.

Here's an article on how to breakup with a person with BPD

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

Does this seem doable?  A little safer?

[Perfidy]

I read that article on how to break up with pwBPD. Almost game playing if you ask me. The prescribed behavior is almost borderline in its self! Fight fire with fire?

[fft524]

I've already started detaching and intentionally being boring. I'm only partially faking the depression and confusion. After this morning's escapade, she informed me that if I hadn't called her by 5 to let her know I'm on my way home that she will just stay with her mom. It's pretty tempting to not call and pack her things. My only concern with that plan is that she'll come over anyway, and then it'll be tantrum time.

I can park somewhere else, but I don't deserve to have to hide in my own home. That's ridiculous. I have to get her out asap, but I'm still formulating the details of my plan. I don't THINK she'd get violent, she usually just cuts people out of her life completely. Being her very soon to be ex, though, I don't know. I just know thatI have although I care very much about her, I have to care about myself more. Apologies for the typos, my phone doesn't like the forms on here for some reason.

[GreenMango]

Being hurt, confused or depressed is pretty common.  It's okay to just I'm not doing real well with all this.  I need to focus on me.  That's really what the breakup article is saying because it doesn't blame and it makes it about you.  They can try to argue it but if that's the broken record it will sink in if your actions match your words consistently.


I'm not sure if its a fight fire with fire situation.  Lots of times we can be really ambivalent too because of the dynamic.

Giving yourself a chance to detach slowly too and chew on the reasons why can help make the breakup less traumatic both ways.

Ideally you could just say fix this, or we fix this or we are done.  Then its understood, but in situations where there's high volatility, other risks, mental illness reason isn't usually the go to... . sometimes a quick break triggers all kinds of conflict it chaos.

This doesn't preclude being decisive on how you feel though and moving towards that goal.

Apologies for the typos, my phone doesn't like the forms on here for some reason.

same here.  Join the club.  Autospeller!

[GreenMango]

Also I'm not talking about using thus method to deal with violence.  Whole other ball game. 

[fft524]

Anyone have any advice on how to force myself to leave/get her out? I understand that I'm going to have to just DO it, but that's taking a huge leap. I don't really have a choice, because I realized this morning just how bad my condition is right now. I'm not considering doing anything stupid, but it was one of those moments of clarity this morning as I realized that this will absolutely never work, there is no chance that this can be fixed, and that it's slowly destroying me. We had another argument because I wasn't going to work at the time she thought I should, to the point where she was trying to force me to get up and leave, even though I was still asleep. She threatened (again) to go stay with her mom, told me she was done with me, that she couldn't be with someone who "stays in bed and is useless all day" (I took an hour of leave and was at work accordingly.) She finally left, and I went back to sleep, but it was this odd state somewhere between sleeping and awake. I wasn't intentionally meditating, but my mind was working, although I wasn't conscious. During that, it became crystal clear that I have to end this r/s to save myself; it was odd, because there was no emotion attached to that realization, and there's usually this huge rush of sadness, disappointment, and fear when I think about that possibility. This time, there was nothing. I read the article on "how to stop ruminating," and the suggestions in it do work, amazingly quickly, actually.

I'm just so tired today. I'm physically, mentally, and emotionally drained. It's a blessing that she hasn't tried to call or text today, because I don't even want to think about her, much less see her. Just looking at her hurts. I've considered not going home at all, but just getting a hotel room and sleeping so I don't have to deal with her crap tonight. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, I'm tired of fighting, I'm tired of always being wrong/not good enough/being the bad guy. I'm tired of being tired. I'm tired of questioning myself and my own sanity.

I realized that the girl I'm in love with doesn't exist; she's a combination of a construct in my mind and a false front on BpGF's part. When I'm not physically around her, I feel a little better... . The situation isn't staring me in the face, alternating between being ecstatic that we're together and spitting hate and vitriol in my face. It's tough, because there's this gorgeous, sexy girl that is physically exactly what I want, but behind the wheel of that body is this hateful demonic beast. I believe that people are intrinsically good, but this disorder makes a really strong case for evil in the world.

Sorry for the long post, just needed a brain dump.         

[Perfidy]

Ok then. I was in a position very similar to that which you describe. I wanted her to leave. She refused. The only two choices that I had were either let her stay and hope it gets better or call the cops on her. Right now I am regretting not calling the cops to have her removed or going to a judge and getting an injunction. Really sorry because it never got any better and now I am suffering the worst suffering that I have ever suffered. Do what you have to do. Don't worry one little tiny bit about her. Chew your leg off if you have to.

[fft524]

She knows what she's doing is wrong. She knows its manipulative. She's trying so hard to pull me back in, and she gets so angry when it doesn't work. She went the route of making dinner and buying expensive presents today, and was calling and texting me all excited about them. She fussed a little about me not giving her my key again, although she was in a heinous mood when she left this morning. It was my fault as usual, even though she was telling me at the time how worthless I am. "Thanks for the input darling, have a great day"? I think not. My escape plan is coming along nicely, it's going to have to be a suprise move, for sure. I don't think she'll leave willingly, politely, or without police involvement if I mention her moving out, regardless of how civil I am.

[Perfidy]

That is what I WISHED I would have done. Involved the law. Hindsight being 20/20. I got to the point where I was afraid of her. I would startle and wake up defensive. The whole situation got so creepy that I was afraid of defending myself and actually hurting her. You really don't want it to digress to that point. It's no damn wonder that I have all this horrible crap coming out of me.

[fft524]

I've had similar concerns; I'm not scared of her (perhaps I should be?), that's why it's going to have to be a surprise move. She's ok if  leaving is -her- idea, she storms out and then comes back within 30 mins or so. If it's mine... . I dunno. I'm starting to think that renting a storage locker and putting her things there and giving her a key is the way to go; she's SO paranoid about things, and (with my help) she's gotten to where she doesn't have her family painted black anymore; there for a while she was staying with me, but she refused to see anyone or even go outside. We ordered chinese food one night, and when the guy rang the doorbell, I turned around to find her standing at the top of the stairs with a backpack, putting on her shoes and getting ready to run because she thought it was her family or the police. That's been over a month ago, and I still haven't figured that one out. Point is, I don't want to take her things to her family, because she'd likely paint them black too, accuse them of plotting with me, and we'd be right back to where we were before where no one knew where she was or if she was ok. At this point, I know that there's really nothing I can do about her safety or stability other than set it up where she sees her family as a safe haven once I'm gone. Manipulative, I know, but at least I'm trying to manipulate because I care, not out of Bpd or malice. I still don't like it.

It's killing me to be thinking this way, I've been on the receiving end of a sudden NC move, and it was one of the most devastating things that's happened to me. (Whole other story; looking back, I get why she did it.) I don't understand the Bpd mindset as well as I'd like to (can any non?), but I still have a very deep empathy and love for her; it sucked when NC happened to me, and I'm not dealing with a mood disorder. I still find myself trying to look at it from her side of things, which I realize is likely impossible to do with any accuracy. It's  just tough trying to figure out an empathetic way to do this when it involves trying to understand someone who doesn't understand themselves. Feeling like that has to be the most frightening, lonely place imaginable.

It breaks my heart to know that the only thing I can do is protect myself, and in doing so it's only going to make that place worse than it already is, at least temporarily. I realize that I have to not care (in a sense) if I'm going to be able to do this, but that goes against who I am. Hell of a place to be: run the very real risk of losing yourself to someone else's disorder, or save yourself by becoming something you're not.

Anyone read Catch-22?

[Learning_curve74]

I still find myself trying to look at it from her side of things, which I realize is likely impossible to do with any accuracy. It's  just tough trying to figure out an empathetic way to do this when it involves trying to understand someone who doesn't understand themselves. Feeling like that has to be the most frightening, lonely place imaginable.

It breaks my heart to know that the only thing I can do is protect myself, and in doing so it's only going to make that place worse than it already is, at least temporarily. I realize that I have to not care (in a sense) if I'm going to be able to do this, but that goes against who I am. Hell of a place to be: run the very real risk of losing yourself to someone else's disorder, or save yourself by becoming something you're not.

fft524, you are in a tough place. You leaving will probably hurt her very much, I know my BPDex was very hurt. The fear of abandonment is very real. Remember it hurts you too. The one thing that pushed me to break it off was exactly what you said: I was losing myself by becoming somebody I couldn't recognize. Don't get me wrong, I still feel awful to abandon my BPDex, but to stay meant to abandon myself.

Another thing to consider is that it is best to do it now. The longer you drag it out, the worse it will hurt for both of you. This is true in normal relationships.

[FinallyFreeInNYC]

You will start to realize that you can't live like this forever. I also had a live-in exBPDgf who could not support herself. Granted, her staying with me was only supposed to be temporary until she could "get on her feet," but I soon realized that this was never going to happen. So I set boundaries. I told her I could only continue to support her until XYZ date. After that, she had to move-out if she wanted to stay together. She moved-out (although she still pretty much slept at my place every night). However, at least it got her things out of my apartment and ultimately created enough space for me to break it off entirely.

After you break up with her (and you will, since this cannot go on forever), BE VERY PREPARED FOR THE FALLOUT. I did not know about BPD when I broke-up with my exBPDgf and here is what happened:

- She started seeing another man almost IMMEDIATELY. This is almost guaranteed going to happen to you. Be prepared for this. Mine pretty much moved-in with the new guy on Day 1.

- When I found out about the new guy, she reacted out of shame and began cutting herself (on her leg), sending me pictures of my name finger-painted in blood on her leg.

- She then threatened suicide, which prompted a call to the police and a car sent to her house.

I repeat -- SHE WILL FIND SOMEONE ELSE VERY FAST. It is how they survive. There is nothing more frightening to someone with BPD than being alone. And she will do extremely manipulative things in order to guilt you into taking her back. She will post her new relationship all over Facebook, Instagram, etc. She will tell you how she has "changed" in all the ways you wanted. Don't buy into it.

After you break up with her, remember: She isn't in a relationship by choice, but rather because she cannot live (literally) without one. That is not what a healthy mature relationship looks like. You deserve better.

[aloha1983]

So true- it needs to happen soon as being in limbo is not helpful either to yourself or to her.

It sounds like she isn't strong enough to break it off herself so you will have to be the one to do it. This is what I had to do with my ex. All his friends and family think I'm a horrible person but it was worth it to not have to deal with the stress.

The way you have to deliver it is with tough love, that means she can't try to weasel or compromise anything out of you. Make sure you have therapy lined up too, as well as supportive friends. I experienced Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after my break up and still do from time to time.

Get a friend or family member to help you drive her stuff to her mums. I would recommend writing a letter or email as if you do it in person they will scream, cry and try to convince you to give them another chance. Tell her you wish her well and hope she gets better but that you won't be her punching bag.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

[fft524]

Well, my plan is this: her belongings boxed neatly in a self storage locker, she gets the key. All avenues of contact shut off/blocked/etc. I'm looking into the requirements for obtaining a restraining order. I'm DONE. I'm sick of being treated like some subhuman punching bag. Sickeningly enough, I'm beginning to get the feeling that her family knows about her condition, but either doesn't understand the severity... . or they're in denial.

[Perfidy]

Fft the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. My ex,her sister, her mother... . All BPD. The sister living back home with mom and dad. Just our of a relationship with a restraining order on her. It is close to codependency in nature because disorder is normal to them. Honestly... . There is no love in that house and it sure as hell shows.   

[GreenMango]

Well, my plan is this: her belongings boxed neatly in a self storage locker, she gets the key. All avenues of contact shut off/blocked/etc. I'm looking into the requirements for obtaining a restraining order. I'm DONE. I'm sick of being treated like some subhuman punching bag. Sickeningly enough, I'm beginning to get the feeling that her family knows about her condition, but either doesn't understand the severity... . or they're in denial.

It sounds like your there ... . To the point of exhaustion.

I've noticed a couple of themes around here the partner (us) is too worn down and exhausted by it all that another day doesn't seem humanly possible or the person leaves and we are heart broken.  Both are hard.

Sometimes normal is as normal does.  They may know.  It may be normal in that household.

Take care of you.  You sound like you need a rest.

[fft524]

This morning was it. After a bad night, she started yelling obscenities at me through the open front door, in front of my neighbor and his two year old daughter. I had my phone in my pocket, and pressed the button for the voice recorder.When she heard it beep, she hit me. Her things are packed, the storage locker is rented, and I'm moving her out. Enough is enough. Now, 3 hours later, she's tagging me in all kinds of sweet pictures of us from when we first met. No one outside this site or my T understand anything about whats going on. Its like they dont believe me. My family is very supportive, but they're 3 states away. She doesn't know whats about to happen, and that's unnerving.

[Perfidy]

If you go through with it fft you will be way smarter than I was.

[goodguy]

I feel your pain fft. It sounds like a very unhealthy situation and one that you need to get out of. Sadly, the best outcome for you will probably be for her to find another partner quickly. She will not let go until this happens (unless she is committed to working on herself in therapy - the best option - but it doesn't sound like it is the case). It will likely happen quickly; mine got with the next one the night we broke up.

[Learning_curve74]

Standard push/pull and I hate you, don't leave me BPD responses... .

You are far along and doing the right thing for yourself and probably for her too.

[fft524]

Well, I went through with it. Her stuff is out of my house, but so am I, at least temporarily. It's funny almost, she was more concerned with the fact that her grandfather found out... . ( I asked for advice on how to deal with the situation, her mom is BPD too, I'm pretty sure, so no go there) I asked him for advice, and he tried to soften the blow on her... . she was more p-d off that he was involved than that I had actually moved her out of the house. Most women would be upset by that too, but would be more concerned with the fact that the relationship is over, instead of that someone else knows about the s-t she's been trying to hide... . go figure. At present, I'm in a hotel across town enjoying the feeling of actually being able to relax, even if it's just a little and my phone is probably going to melt down from the incessant texting. I hate hiding out, but it's SO great to not be walking on eggshells. This escapade has cost north of $200 today, but it's worth every cent to not be wondering what's coming next... . at least temporarily. It's sad, though, her family keeps trying to tell me to just forgive and forget or get over it when it comes to the things she's done (and continues to do). I realize I'm not perfect, and could probably have handled some things better, but I'm sorry... . there's no excuse for cheating, lying to cover it up, taking advantage of someone and then hitting them and swearing at them for trivial things because they're frustrated, confused, and depressed by your behavior. They chalk hers up to frustration, and to a point I agree, but SERIOUSLY? If the situation were reversed, I'd be sporting a prison jumpsuit already, no questions asked.

[Aussie0zborn]

Congratulations. You handled it like a perfect gentleman and saved yourself a lot of grief. It sounds like you know what to do next - total NC and if you find yourself floundering, picture that prison jumpsuit.  I don't think you would look that good in it.

[fft524]

Heh, me either.

[aloha1983]

Well done. Don't listen to the family, at this point because you have broken up they are meant to be on 'her' side. You should definitely Skype with or go and visit your family for a while. You may need to change phone numbers so she can't keep contacting you or turn the phone off.

Well done on taking the first step!

[Learning_curve74]

Congrats fft524! 

It isn't surprising that your now exgf  is mad about her grandfather finding out. My BPDex had to lie and hide so much to maintain a semblance of normality, and so she was deathly afraid of people finding out all about her bulls**t.

If your phone can do it, you might want to consider blocking all her calls and texts. If not, you can always turn it off temporarily and get a no contract cell phone to use in the meantime.

[fft524]

I'm beginning to think that this might have been the easy part... . Now I get to deal with the emotions after a normal breakup and then some... . At least I don't have to hide my keys, sleep with one eye open, and wonder what the next outburst is going to be about... . makes a normal relationship seem easy. To wit, she just texted me that she's out at the bar... . typical.

Here we go.

[aloha1983]

We are all here for you. Check in regularly and let us know how you are going, if you need a vent, etc!

[goldylamont]

... but it was one of those moments of clarity this morning as I realized that this will absolutely never work, there is no chance that this can be fixed, and that it's slowly destroying me... . She finally left, and I went back to sleep, but it was this odd state somewhere between sleeping and awake. I wasn't intentionally meditating, but my mind was working, although I wasn't conscious. During that, it became crystal clear that I have to end this r/s to save myself; it was odd, because there was no emotion attached to that realization, and there's usually this huge rush of sadness, disappointment, and fear when I think about that possibility. This time, there was nothing. I read the article on "how to stop ruminating," and the suggestions in it do work, amazingly quickly, actually.

wow fft524 i had the exact same feeling when breaking up with my ex. it was like a calm knowing--truthfully i think i was predicting that this person wanted to start cheating? i don't know, but it was a calm realization nonetheless. And yes i went through hell moving her out too. I'm so happy that you took control of the situation to get her out. If she had access to your place, trust the first thing she would have done would be to bring some other man inside and then make sure you found out about it. While sometimes I'm sure her cruel treatment of you was just coming from her own pain, I noticed a link between when my ex was being cruel because there was another man involved. maybe i'm going too far, but, you could have just pissed her off because she wasn't able to pull off the ultimate stunt of bringing another guy into your house. damn, i'm just glad you got her out, good for you.

It's tough, because there's this gorgeous, sexy girl that is physically exactly what I want, but behind the wheel of that body is this hateful demonic beast. I believe that people are intrinsically good, but this disorder makes a really strong case for evil in the world.

yup.

but you will get better. i'm so happy right now, it's been a while since i've even seen my ex and i'm able to acknowledge that she's evil in many ways and still i'm starting to develop healthy detachment and compassion for her. and by healthy compassion i mean not the "compassion" you think you have in the beginning which is really just unresolved issues of you wanting her back (which is normal).

and you mentioned how pissed she was that you told her grandpa--wow, this just shows how deep she is into the narcissism/manipulation towards you at this point. it's so crazy and can be painful. you've done the right thing by moving her stuff out. your *body* told you to do it even when your conscious mind didn't really want to. and your reward for this is a safer environment for yourself. if you hadn't listened to that voice it's unimaginable what that woman would have done to and in your home. take care (and cover!  )

[fft524]

You hit the nail on the head Goldy; thing is, she'd already brought several someones in there, and got pissed when I found out. I'm in the process of looking for another place now, just to get rid of the "bad juju" that's in there now. I really liked that place, and was rebuilding my life after a bad breakup when I met her... . starting over sucks, but at least I don't have to wonder what's been going on anymore. I'm tired of the lies, I'm tired of the abuse, I'm tired of all the crap associated with this. It just sucks because I was so enamored with the person she made herself out to be. Oh well, live and learn, I guess. She isn't letting go easily though, 70 missed calls and 250 text messages since 11 last night. My neighbors tell me she was sitting in her car in front of my place for several hours last night; the hotel was a stellar idea... . it was great to be able to breathe, and get a halfway decent night's sleep. You never really realize how bad it is until you get out and look back... . it's unsettling how much I was being suppressed. It's funny... . people can be extremely willing to change for someone they love if that person just asks; the sick part about all of this is that they tend to do it to you without you realizing it. I'm just ecstatic that I was able to get out before it was too late. She texted last night saying that she would be willing to see a psychiatrist if it could help save the relationship... . my response was "ok, prove it." If she would be willing to get serious help and commit to it, I'd be willing to consider giving her a chance at some point, but I'm not going to fall into that smoke and mirrors routine right now. It's like I've told her since everything went down: if she wants this badly enough, her actions will show it. Contrary to that, her actions have shown nothing but self-centeredness, loathing, manipulation, and hate. "Ain't nobody got time for that." Now, I'm just having to get myself centered, leveled off, and figure out how to proceed from here. I want a relationship like the one we had before all of this crap happened, minus the falsehood, lies, and BS that it was built upon. Yet another case of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is." I don't need or want to bail off into anything right away, but I do hate not having someone real to share my life with. 

[Aussie0zborn]

Wow you did it so well that I'm envious simply because I was too damaged and in the FOG to use my better judgment - I could have saved myself a lot of misery.  But, given how well you did it with your clear thinking and a strong sense of self, I'm alarmed that you replied to her.

Yes they hate it when you tell someone and they're uncovered, especially when you have been the one covering their BS all this time.

Time for you to block the number, maybe?

[eyvindr]

Congratulations on standing your ground and managing this like a civilized human. Grace under fire, my friend -- it's a rare trait anymore.

Good lord, I've been through this so many times:

She isn't letting go easily though, 70 missed calls and 250 text messages since 11 last night... . She texted last night saying that she would be willing to see a psychiatrist if it could help save the relationship... . my response was "ok, prove it." If she would be willing to get serious help and commit to it, I'd be willing to consider giving her a chance at some point, but I'm not going to fall into that smoke and mirrors routine right now... .

Can't count the number of crazy phone arguments that I TRIED not to have, and she wouldn't let up, and I'd finally tell her that if she wasn't able to discuss whatever it was like an adult, I was going to hang up, and then I'd get reamed out about how "hanging up on people is rude! it's abusive!" and then I would, because it was the only way to stop the torrent of madness -- and then she'd ring my home and cell continually, until I turned them off, and then I'd wake up to 100 over-the-top txt msgs. God, it's all so typical of these r-ships. Sad.

You called it: "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

At this point in my life, I hate not having someone real to share my life with, too. But maybe I'e finally learned that I need to really stop being the nice guy and investing time, energy and emotion in the wrong r-ships.

Hang in there.

[fft524]

... . So after a barrage of texts and calls from she and her family today, I agreed to have dinner (in public) to talk. I don't expect it to go well, my neighbors tell me she slept in her car out front last night and kept asking where I was. (I intentionally didn't say). I found a really nice note thanking me for making her sleep in her car (do they take responsibility for ANYTHING? Her family lives 5 min away and asked her repeatedly to come home.) I'm getting ready for the smear routine to begin soon because "I was so mean to their precious little girl"; they don't realize its like feeding the cute little fuzzy thing after midnight so it turns into a gremlin. *Sigh* all bad feelings aside, I do miss her, at least the good parts she showed at first... . gotta hang tough. I will NOT get sucked back in.

[Moonie75]

I'm going to stick my neck out here!

I think you're more in the 'fog' than you realize.

You replied to a txt from her while you were paying for a room to get away from her!

And now you've agreed to dinner with her to 'talk'!

If you truly want this to be over, why did those events happen when it was well within your control for them to not happen?

You're starting to look more like you're trying to bully her into submission than get her actually see it's over!

Hope I didn't offend, but that's what it looks like to me.

[aloha1983]

I can see that you're trying to do the right thing, but I think the family is trying to manipulate you so she becomes your problem and not theirs.

Do not go to the dinner. Please cancel, for everybody's sake. Including hers. She needs to see that you are serious and that you will not go back (even if it feels like right now you would). Unfortunately my ex went to a psychiatrist and managed to manipulate her into thinking it was all my fault. Then she met me, I reported what was going on and she said yes it's definitely borderline. Then for my own safety she told me I could get out and escape.

You need time to yourself without the phone calls, notes and so on. If she sleeps in a car that is her choice. It's not your responsibility any more. You don't need to be her carer now.

I'd also recommend getting a prepaid phone so you aren't witness to all the phone calls and texts. That's the last thing you need right now.

Cut all contact with the family, start seeing a therapist and being unavailable. It's the only way... .

[aloha1983]

PS. Moving is a great idea! Have you got a friend you can go and stay with for the moment?

[Moonie75]

PS. Moving is a great idea! Have you got a friend you can go and stay with for the moment?

Great idea! I had a friend stay for two weeks after I left & just having someone else moving around me was a tonic in its self. he didn't even need to talk to me it was just great to not feel so alone. I cooked every night & he brought the beers home. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it & even his wife said she enjoyed it!  

[fft524]

I think you may be right Moonie... . :/

[aloha1983]

It's okay to be hurting and vulnerable... . just make sure your actions are clear and send the message that it's over. What will be your next step do you think?

[GreenMango]

they don't realize its like feeding the cute little fuzzy thing after midnight so it turns into a gremlin.

. That was funny!  Humor helps sometimes.

My therapist suggested to me in this situation to not imply hope if you are done.  The drastic move isn't about manipulation, its about being done and needing to end an unhealthy situation.  Hope like in... . if you get treatment blah blah.  It's okay to firm and clear, and still respectful in the process.

Sometimes letting the natural consequences of bad behavior and poor choices happen really is the best thing for a person.  Sometimes its the catalyst for change even if you don't get to see it. 

What will be your next step do you think?

Good question. 

[Aussie0zborn]

Please don't do it. You have done so well 'til now and it seems you are going to ruin it. You deserve better.

[fft524]

Well, it could have gone better, but it could have gone worse. She's not trying to move back in, and I reiterated that the way things have been going is NOT going to work. She didn't stay at my place last night. She kept telling me how devastated her family was by what I did, and explained that I could have told her to get help or get out... . I think we all know that would have been a pipe dream that just led to another argument. On the one hand, it makes logical sense, but on the other, we all know that wouldn't have ended well. It was gut wrenching last night, because I know she really doesn't want to be alone, for a variety of reasons, but on the other, she doesn't seem to grasp why all of this is happening... . I'm trying really hard to land an out of town assignment for a couple of weeks to give myself space to level off and clear my head and for her to either follow through on her promise to get psychiatric help or find someone else to victimize. It's really tough, because I know she has moments of clarity where she can see what's happening, and she's devastated by it, but then she falls back into herself. Mango, I think you're right about the catalyst for change, it's just supremely disappointing that I won't be around to see it.

So close... . yet so far.

My T was the one who first picked up on her Bpd tendencies from what I've been telling him, and I keep trying to convince myself that he's wrong, that she just has some maturity left to gain, but then she says or does something that makes me question that, too. What it comes down to is that I love the girl, and I'd like to salvage things, but she's destroyed the trust I had in her, and can't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation or how to rectify it. Bpd or Bpd tendencies, she's still dragged me through hell for the past two months, and I can't risk things getting worse or getting better only to come back to where we are now. I just want peace... . I want to be able to sleep in my own bed without being jumpy or wondering whether she's going to come banging on my front door or be sleeping in her car out front. Disordered or not, she just isn't capable of doing what needs to be done, and I am too far along in disengaging to give her any more chances. From what I've read, sometimes there's a watershed moment in these situations where the non leaves and the pwBPD actually seeks help. I want to believe that this is one of those moments, but my trust and faith in her are too severely damaged to go there. Like the beginning of this r/s, it seems too good to be true. I've been trying to find a good way to initiate NC without just blasting her out of the water, but I don't see any other way... . Last night was to let her down easy, but she just clamped on for dear life. This sucks so much.

[aloha1983]

I was the catalyst for change too but what you have to realise is it takes years and years for them to improve if they do. It is very sad, but you have to stand strong and not give her any hope at all that the two of you will get back together. It's much kinder. Thinking of you.

[Learning_curve74]

fft, it sounds like you've had an awful hard time. I struggled with the exact same problem but in the end it is the choice that preserves your own self, otherwise you risk losing yourself into the maelstrom that is BPD. Like a lot of situations, it usually gets worse before it can get better. Good luck.

[fft524]

To say it's hurt my heart is to put it mildly. I know who this girl is, behind the BPD... . I'm one of the few people she's let catch a glimpse of who she =really= is. For all the hurt they cause, there -is- a real person in there. That's who I fell in love with, that's who I've been trying to reach. She sat in my truck crying for over an hour last night because of what's going on, and it physically hurt me to see her so upset and desperate to be next to me, and knowing that there's nothing I can do to fix it. I could change my mind and run the very real risk of losing myself to this on the very faint hope that "it's just a phase" (I don't think so), or that she will follow through on her promise to seek help. She agreed to give me my space, and told me that she was going to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist today. I desperately hope she follows through, because she deserves better than what she's been given in life, prior to our meeting, and what she's given herself. It really doesn't matter whether we ever successfully work things out or even try to, as long as she will get help and stick with it... . that's my wish. As I've said in previous posts, I know I can't save her, I know I can't realistically even help her... . but that doesn't stop me from wanting to. I suppose that's one of the hardest parts of dealing with a loved one with BPD--the feeling of absolute helplessness. I would imagine that's a huge part of their feelings, too. The best analogy I can come up with would be watching someone drown, trying to throw them a rope, and they don't know what to do with it, so they just look at it. They know it's there, they obviously don't want to drown, but they don't understand what to do or what can be done.

Not the best analogy ever, but it's the best I can do.

We haven't communicated at all since last night, and it's tough. I miss her terribly, but it's relaxing to be able to concentrate, even if it's just for a few minutes, on something other than how horrible I feel because of the things she's said and done that hurt me, what I had to do to protect myself, and how much it hurt her. I realize that there are things that I could have said and done differently, and I absolutely would have, if I had known sooner what I was really dealing with. I'm trying hard not to wallow in the situation, but it's hard not to when something like this unexpectedly pops into your life.

I'm still vertical, I still have my health. That's something, I guess.

[goldylamont]

fft, i think it's important to take a step back and look at things from a wider perspective, to zoom out if you will. if you recall i really connected with what you were saying about having that calm moment of clarity. when i had enough space and tapped into this type of wisdom, beyond my immediate needs/wants, and just looked at the reality of the situation, this is the truth i understood for myself: the r/s with this person exists now for one reason. she wants to completely destroy me, over and over if necessary. emptying her poison into me is a way for her to temporarily gain some power and relief for herself. my ex was a scorpio, so i would imagine her as a scorpion injecting her emotional poison into me. whatever our r/s was before, this was what it had become from now on. i don't want this to sound like i am only blaming your ex or making them out to be a monster. they are this monster by how they are behaving and it's important to fully accept them in this light to protect yourself.

fft is it possible that you have just a little bit of hope that your ex will seek therapy, begin to heal and that at some point the dust will settle and you two would be together again? or at least be cordial and friends? is there a fear that if you push her completely away that you are cutting yourself off from this possibility? well, i felt this way. i think most others also felt this way. but, please be careful--this is just our fantasy, it's not real. if you were to tell me now that your ex started therapy and was contacting you wanting to make amends, i would not be happy. i would be worried for you because time and again we've all seen exBPD's using therapy and saying they have healed as a way to reel us back in, so that they can dump more emotional poison into us. trust this, what makes her feel alive and well right now is releasing some of her tormented emotions and injecting them into the people around her. if she's nice to you now--be alert, be afraid. at least if she's mean/cruel it's closer to the truth of her motivations.

i believe on some level you already understand this. and i believe the fact that you are trusting your instincts, your body, more than the fantasies in your mind, is giving you the strength to follow through with moving her out and taking space for yourself. meeting up with her again to talk--to me this is just a power grab. she's a black hole right now, she wants to suck every ounce of power out of you, and you'd like to gain some of that power back, whether it be by witnessing her being in pain because she hurt you, or seeing her seek therapy to fuel the fantasy of her getting better. i've settled with the idea that we nons can never win in this power struggle. we haven't been training all our lives to put up fronts, we don't have decades of practice at the art of full blown manipulation and lying. so, we won't win the power struggle. the only way is to get out of the game with her completely. this is the direction you're going in so i wholeheartedly congratulate your efforts. just really take a look at your own secret wants and desires when you consider any interaction with her going forward. it's these needs/wants that she on some level is already aware of, and will use to keep poisoning you. if you still aren't convinced that she exists at this point only to do you harm, then you will leave yourself open for her to hurt you again. at some point you'll be fully convinced, she'll hurt you enough to where you have no doubt. i think many here are just trying to say--trust that this is the reality now so that you don't have to be hurt anymore.

if this was assuming or a bit off then my apologies. it's just what is flowing through me now from my understanding and how i relate to your situation.

[Aussie0zborn]

+1 for what Goldy said.

[goldylamont]

The best analogy I can come up with would be watching someone drown, trying to throw them a rope, and they don't know what to do with it, so they just look at it. They know it's there, they obviously don't want to drown, but they don't understand what to do or what can be done.

i would see this analogy a bit differently. i think this person is used to drowning, has drowned completely over and over again, with many different people throwing them ropes. true, they don't know how to stop drowning, so they just accept the fact that they are going down. but the rope? oh they know what to do, look at her behaviors, she'll take that rope and pull you in the water with her, then wrap that rope around your neck and pull you under with it. she's done it before and it gives her some respite to watch others drown. the illusion is thinking you are giving her the rope to help her, or that she is grabbing that rope to help herself. that rope--your need/want to help her, will be wrapped around your neck. doesn't her past behavior reflect this?

[KateCat]

"The Bridge" (and rope) fable, as discussed on this forum:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;wap2

[Learning_curve74]

She agreed to give me my space, and told me that she was going to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist today. I desperately hope she follows through, because she deserves better than what she's been given in life, prior to our meeting, and what she's given herself. It really doesn't matter whether we ever successfully work things out or even try to, as long as she will get help and stick with it... . that's my wish.

I realize that there are things that I could have said and done differently, and I absolutely would have, if I had known sooner what I was really dealing with.

fft, you sound like a very caring, empathic, and loving person. That's why it's so hard, and I know because I totally feel exactly the same about my BPDex. If my disappearing from her life and her memories would guarantee she would be healed from BPD, then I would gladly give up all the good memories of us to have that happen.

Let's also face the facts. My BPDex is going to be 40, she knows about her BPD and has had therapy, but she is still a crazy whirlwind of chaos when it comes to all interpersonal relationships. There is no magic pill/cure, only a very long road ahead with a lot of setbacks.

In reality, there is probably nothing you could have done differently that would've changed the final result. The only difference it would've made is whether your relationship ended earlier or later. Read the stories here, there are people who have suffered 10, 20, 30 years with their pwBPD.

Two therapists told me that my dumping my BPDex was the only realistic endgame. One T told me when I was still in the relationship (T knew it was my last session with them) and the other T only told me after I'd already broken it off, but both were very clear and unequivocal in their opinion. Please realize that they were only speaking about my own particular situation as the Ts helped me see that who I am, my values, and my hopes and dreams are incompatible with staying with her. Maybe other people with other values can deal with their pwBPD in some type of open or on/off relationship. Not me.

Some situations we just have to realize it is what it is and walk away. It still sucks and hurts like hell though.

[goldylamont]

"The Bridge" (and rope) fable, as discussed on this forum:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;wap2

thanks KateCat for sharing this. I've heard variations of this fable before. The only thing I would change about this fable for our situation, is that the one who jumped over the bridge would be really good looking. and, this person would also pull himself up the rope and we would be overjoyed thinking they would save themselves. then, when close to the top they'd grab us by the throat and hair and try and drag us down. so then it's left to us to wait till they let go or find a way to fend them off before they drag us down again (teehee, the good ol recycle)

[KateCat]

 

It's probably a good idea to add an understanding of the domestic violence cycle in this particular case too. For the cycle to be seamless it seems that the victim must feel pity for the perpetrator. I can't help but notice that fft was assaulted in his home on Monday, and on Wednesday he spent an hour listening to his assailant cry in his truck. Like magic!

There are some good visual representations of the "domestic violence wheel" (or whatever it's called) out there, but men may be less aware of it than women. It's not a bad thing to consult before becoming too embedded in a violent relationship.

[fft524]

Funny you say that, KateCat... .

My evening started out watching football at a friend's house, and I came home to find her sitting in her car in front of my apartment. She said she just wanted to say I love you and I miss you. We talked for about 2 hours, while she tried to convince me to let her stay with me tonight. I told her that that wasn't a good idea, and that if she wanted to talk some more tomorrow, that could happen. She started claiming that she "had nowhere else to go," and that she would sleep in her car if that was as close to me as she could get. After giving her another ten minutes, I told her that I really needed to get some sleep, and that she might need to do the same, since she has to work tomorrow. She got really aggressive, saying that "now you've p-ed me off, come talk to me." I politely told her goodnight and that I would be happy to talk to her tomorrow. She began kicking my front door, constantly ringing the doorbell, and throwing mud clods at my windows. After about ten minutes, I'd had enough and called the police, hoping to beat the neighbors to it (apartment complex). I tried to have some compassion, so I didn't have her trespassed or anything, just asked them to have her go home so we could all get some sleep. It was almost comical, because as I was talking to the dispatcher, she was having a hard time understanding me due to the doorbell. Had to trip the circuit breaker to it so we could understand each other. It was a scene straight out of COPS, sadly enough.

The one bright side to it is that while we were in the car talking before she had her tantrum, I actually got to talk to the real her for a little bit. She said that she's done the things she's done because she doesn't know how to deal with how she's feeling, and that she really does just want to be close to me. She hates being alone, and I feel genuine pity and empathy for her because she really doesn't know how to deal with all of this. Being 21 is tough enough at times without having this condition, and dealing with things then nearly drove me up the wall, too. I did manage to put a bug in her ear about talking to someone other than a pastor about how to deal with how she's feeling, so maybe that's something... .

I'm very empathetic because I love the girl, and I'm not the biggest fan of feeling alone either, but after the past week, it's just starting to turn into a detached pity.

(All that said, I'm SO glad I moved her things out when I did.)

[eyvindr]

fft --

So much familiar here. What you describe is exactly why I took back my key from my ex. Both times I shared a key with her, some outburst that started via txts, escalated to phone calls, and ultimately led to her showing up at my house, letting herself in, and continuing her rant like she had every absolute right in the world to do so. Like we were married and living together, and she'd learned of me having an affair -- versus what was really going on, which generally was that she was bored at work, and had sent me a txt msg that I'd taken more than 5 mins to respond to, while, in the meantime, I'd clicked "like" to something on FB... . really ridiculous ___.

... . After giving her another ten minutes, I told her that I really needed to get some sleep, and that she might need to do the same, since she has to work tomorrow. She got really aggressive, saying that "now you've p-ed me off, come talk to me." I politely told her goodnight and that I would be happy to talk to her tomorrow. She began kicking my front door, constantly ringing the doorbell, and throwing mud clods at my windows. After about ten minutes, I'd had enough and called the police, hoping to beat the neighbors to it (apartment complex). I tried to have some compassion, so I didn't have her trespassed or anything, just asked them to have her go home so we could all get some sleep. It was almost comical, because as I was talking to the dispatcher, she was having a hard time understanding me due to the doorbell. Had to trip the circuit breaker to it so we could understand each other. It was a scene straight out of COPS, sadly enough.

Yeah -- I used to have to unplug my home phone and, when she'd come to the house, disconnect the doorbell. 

The one bright side to it is that while we were in the car talking before she had her tantrum, I actually got to talk to the real her for a little bit. She said that she's done the things she's done because she doesn't know how to deal with how she's feeling, and that she really does just want to be close to me. She hates being alone, and I feel genuine pity and empathy for her because she really doesn't know how to deal with all of this. Being 21 is tough enough at times without having this condition, and dealing with things then nearly drove me up the wall, too. I did manage to put a bug in her ear about talking to someone other than a pastor about how to deal with how she's feeling, so maybe that's something... .

I'm very empathetic because I love the girl, and I'm not the biggest fan of feeling alone either, but after the past week, it's just starting to turn into a detached pity.

(All that said, I'm SO glad I moved her things out when I did.)

That's it, right there -- that's WHY we feel so connected to them. It's what keeps us in the F.O.G. -- knowing that this person who can flip from being the most wonderful person in the world to Little Miss Banshee in half a minute still inside them, behind all of the emotional chaos, possesses the basic human goodness that we all have. That's the person we fell in love with, the person we still love, the person whose love we desperately want to share, the person whose happiness is tantamount to us.

And that's why I despise this disease. It undermines and sabotages any possibility to experience that goodness -- which again is very much still there -- on a consistent basis.

Hang in there. But keep your key.

[fft524]

Today has been really tough. She sent me several texts last night telling me that we're done and that she isn't going to speak to me anymore. I'm relieved because I don't want to deal with the drama any more, but I'm dealing with this overwhelming sense of loss. I'm glad to be rid of the stress, walking on eggshells, resentment of her for lying to me, and fear that this will never change. I absolutely cannot trust her. At the same time, I have this horrible feeling of emptiness, sadness, and being lost. As ridiculous as it sounds, given the situation, I miss her. I'm afraid I'm already falling into the trap of only remembering the good times and the good parts of the relationship. I hate feeling alone, but I know the situation was a harmful one. When things were good, they were absolutely amazing, but when they were bad, I was trapped in the seventh circle of hell. I don't want to go home to an empty apartment where we have so much history, but I can't exactly stay at work all weekend, either. I've been calling around to my friends to try to find something to do, but nothing's panned out yet. I really just want to curl up under my desk and sleep. I sent her a couple of texts this morning... . why, I have no idea. I just don't want to be alone right now. Apologies for the maudlin crap, but that's where my mind is right now.

[aloha1983]

I would say get a mattress, sleeping bag and pillow and stay at work! Whatever it is you have to do. As for not being alone, I wonder if there is a church or some kind of group nearby you could visit over the weekend so you don't have to be alone the whole time. Alternately, there are men's shelters you can stay at in times of crisis. Don't be afraid to ask for help as you are in a time of trauma and difficulty. With the church stuff you often don't need to be a Christian yourself to receive some help or aid.

Otherwise, is taking time off work and going to your family for a week or two an option?

Your reaction to the breakup is different because the partner was disordered. The sense of loss will be huge and profound and it takes a long time to work through. The hardest part is realising the person you love wasn't real. It is just one fractured piece of the whole broken person.

You have a lot to give but for now you have to save it until you can find someone healthy to love again. You really do have to be tough here, not just with her but with yourself.

Please check in here regularly and let us know how you are doing.

[eyvindr]

fft --

It's hard, I know. But everything you're feeling is to be expected here.

As difficult as this is to do -- have you considered NC? It isn't going to help to keep hearing from her -- whether it's good stuff or bad stuff, it only serves to keep you attached. In order to begin healing -- it sounds like your mind is clear about wanting to be done with all of the negative drama and behavior that this r-ship brings to your life -- you need to close that door. As long as it stays open, even a crack, the bad winds are going to come in.

It gets better. You can do this. Hang in there, hang in here.

[Clearmind]

fft524 - it takes time to move through the emotions - its only natural you will feel this way.

Be gentle with yourself and reach out to your support network.

[aloha1983]

I would have to agree with what is being said above... . No Contact is kinder both to you and to her. Otherwise you will continue to ride the ups and downs and be far more vulnerable to going back. Trust me, I've been there!

Be gentle and kind to yourself... . it is going to be painful but we believe in you.

[aloha1983]

I just looked around the site for something that would help you... . read this:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61980.0

You will come to see that No Contact is the only way to go. Yes, it hurts... . but you don't have to deal with any NEW hurt. Please read it, I think it will help.

[blurry]

Can you simply get her to move in her moms without breaking up? And then either dump her then, or maybe it'll give you the space to deal with her bs better and you stay together? I promise you, from my experience, if it was her place you'd of already been locked out with the threat of all your stuff getting tossed in the dumpster. Assuming she's truely BPD.

[fft524]

Hooked up with a buddy of mine that lives out of town, spent the day hanging out with he and his wife... . the barrage of phone calls and texts was getting ridiculous. I ended up answering and telling her that I wasn't coming home tonight so that she wouldn't be sitting in front of my apt again when I got home. She ended up trying to go to his place (30 miles away) to meet me (uninvited), but fortunately she couldn't remember how to get there. I ended up telling her I stayed there and coming home, but I parked on the other side of the complex. As I was hanging out with my neighbor having a cigarette, he told me that she'd been driving through the complex looking for me a couple hours prior. Apparently she was in bad enough shape that her brother felt the need to text me, worried about her, saying that she was hysterical when she left the house. Apparently her mom was afraid that I was going to call the cops on her again. I honestly can't figure out how they don't know that something beyond a breakup is going on here. Her mom actually accused me of acting crazy and being manipulative today, and all I could do was laugh. Really dark humor, I know, but I couldn't figure out how else to process it. The mom texted me today accusing me of sending mixed signals, being manipulative, and generally screwing with her daughter's head. I explained that while in a perfect world, we'd be able to work things out, I can't be doing 100% of the work to that end and getting nowhere. I've explained to the grandparents, the mom, and the brother that I didn't move her out of my apartment because I don't want to be with her or because I don't love her, but that I did it because her behavior is starting to concern and/or scare me. (They seem to think that calling the cops the other night was some immature "gotcha" move... . my neighbors appreciated it, though, because they were trying to sleep, too.) The mom's response was that she didn't appreciate me telling people that her daughter is crazy; all I could say to that was that I'm not telling anyone that, my friends see that I'm obviously upset, and I try to explain why. If people think she's crazy, that's their own conclusion. It'd be a different story if I was making it all up, and there weren't neighbors and police incident reports and call logs that can verify everything.

I'm 99% convinced that the mom is BPD too, because during the conversation, I was answering her questions and addressing her concerns directly, and if something came up that she didn't like, she either ignored it or abruptly changed the subject; then she accused me of dodging her questions and concerns, and tried to place all the blame on me. She actually had the gall to tell me that I wasn't the only victim in this situation, that BPDex is, too, because I haven't been the model bf.

Last time I checked, I hadn't cheated on (multiple times with multiple people in one night), lied to, manipulated, or otherwise disrespected her daughter, belittled her, or assaulted her in her own home. Please explain to me how that makes me not a victim?

Last contact I had was an angry text telling me that I could come to her if I wanted to work things out because she was tired of playing games. I'd love for her to stick with that, but I fully expect to be awoken at 8 tomorrow with another barrage of phone calls and texts telling me how much she misses me, how she's a wreck and how we need to fix things.

I really wish they could put antipsychotics in the water supply along with flouride. It'd make life so much easier.

Sorry for the long, frustrated post, but REALLY? Enough is enough.

[GreenMango]

This is what is known as an extinction burst.  Sometimes it involves third parties as leverage if desparate enough.

I hadn't cheated on (multiple times with multiple people in one night), lied to, manipulated, or otherwise disrespected her daughter, belittled her, or assaulted her in her own home

These are significant actions and justifiable break up offenses.

I could come to her if I wanted to work things out because she was tired of playing games

You could if this was a game.  It doesn't sound like it is.


Piece of advice it may help to stop trying to communicate with her or her family.  Reasoning and explaining is just called JADE and when someone is like this it makes things worse - gasoline on a fire.

Can you just ignore the phone calls for awhile?  Have you read about extinction bursts?

[fft524]

I can't say that I have, give me a few and I will... .

[eeyore]

If the Mom calls you again, could you say thanks for calling.  While I wish your daughter well, I feel she isn't the right person for me and I'd like to break up and move on.  Please stop discussing the relationship I am ending with your daughter.  It is between you daughter and me.  It might be helpful to go NC with anyone related to her.  She (the stbx gf) is obviously very upset and has to hit whatever bottom until she will stop.  In the mean time you want to steer clear of any crazy drama. 

[GreenMango]

Extinction burst

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

[fft524]

I'll be direct, here... . my T is batting 1000 in the year that I've been seeing him, and that's downright terrifying right now. He nailed that exgf has BPD, he's actually told me what both of us are going to do before we do it, and while I know that he's a straight shooter, and I trust him implicitly, I have to do something. Bpexgf has been talking a lot about going to church and a professional counseling as a way of trying to rebuild the relationship; all well and good, but when I explained this to my T, he gave me pause... . He told me that she will do what she's been doing, she will turn to religion as a means of coping, and then she will try to kill herself when that fails. (He has 30 years' experience, and has been the director of a local mental health facility). She hasn't changed her behaviors, but she is beginning to lean very hard on the idea of speaking with a pastor about what's going on. She demanded that I "get (my) ass home for church" this afternoon. I hope my T is wrong, but it's like he has a crystal ball... . For an ex-marine who has no trouble dropping the f-bomb in a session, he's very, very good, and it's starting to scare me. I'm trying to figure out how to alert the family to what they're dealing with without starting a huge sh-tstorm, because although this relationship is NOT going to work, I still love the girl and care about her, and obviously don't want her to attempt suicide, for a variety of reasons. I can't very well drop the BPD bomb on her family outright, but it's an excruciating place to be, knowing what's going on and what the likely outcome is while I watch the woman I love self-destruct as her family looks on without knowing what they're seeing. I can't help her myself, I can't be in a relationship with her, but I can't just walk away knowing what is very likely to happen. That goes against who I am at my core. I realize that she can't be forced to get help, but if her family is at least alerted to the situation... .

I can't just sit here and watch a downward spiral and not at least try to do SOMEthing.

[eeyore]

Right now try to concentrate on yourself.  You could spend a lifetime and a fortune trying to help her and her family and still end up with a disaster.  There might be moments of hope but they also might be false hope. 

What does your T say to you about trying to help her?  I suspect he will tell you the best thing you can do is to leave her and go NC so that she might get herself into real therapy.  Otherwise taking her back only means that you both are establishing a pattern of you taking her back.  She'll do the minimum she has to do to keep you in the pattern.  And your boundaries will continually be broken down. 

And I agree most likely she's not telling her family all the things she did that were hurtful to you.  Like someone else said they aren't dealing with the problem they are hopeful you will make it your problem so they are off the hook. 

[fft524]

Concentrating on myself: that's exactly what I'm doing, and it's driving her into hysteria.

My T's advice is exactly that. I'm not interested in taking her back, at present, (likely never), and my goals are to get myself out of the fog, to get myself leveled off, and to do what I can to get her family involved in getting her help. I made the decision weeks ago to get her back in with her family and somewhat stabilized before stepping back. That continues to be my plan. From what I've observed and read, perhaps my only options are to go NC, or to take the MUCH riskier path, to raise the bar incredibly high... . that the minimum for me to even consider taking her back would be intensive inpatient treatment. That leaves me open to much more hurt and pain, but honestly, if I could have a real shot at saving her life and making a real difference for someone I love... . it'd be worth it. I realize that says a lot about me and potential issues with my mindset, but it is what it is.

I agree about your comment about the family. I don't think that they are consciously trying to pawn her issues off on me, but everything I'm seeing and hearing is telling me that they see the proverbial writing on the wall, they just don't want to admit it. Denial is a powerful thing. She is their daughter, their granddaughter, their sister... . I can't and won't try to put myself on that level. Her mother and grandmother are trying very hard to make me see her as a responsibility, whether they even realize that they're doing it, or not. She needs her mom and grandmother, they will love her unconditionally. She doesn't need me, just as I don't need her. She wants me in her life, just as I want her (given successful treatment) in mine. They seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking that I will love her unconditionally--not true. My conditions, however, were (and are) very simple. Don't lie, don't cheat, be true to yourself and to us. Don't let anyone into my home that I don't know personally if I'm not there. She grossly violated all of those. It's almost a dark comedy, if you step back and examine the dynamics from the outside: the grandparents, with everyone's best interest and the most experience at heart. The mom, BPD, dramatic, trying to do what she feels is best for her family. The stepdad: I understand now why he has a tired look of resignation on his face, and why he'd rather be doing my job (fighting wildfires) than going home to two BPD women every night. The BPDexgf: smart, funny, sweet, loving, beautiful, damaged beyond belief, but still deserving of love and respect even though she is incapable of delivering those reliably. I could write a book about this... .

[aloha1983]

I hate to sound harsh but you really need to go Non Contact with the WHOLE family. You are sending mixed signals if you keep talking to them and saying you might consider getting back together if she goes into an inpatient facility.

Your Therapist I'm sure would tell you it takes at least 5 years solid effort to recover from BPD, and they need ongoing support for the rest of their lives.

Are you really willing to live like this for the rest of your life? If not, no matter how vulnerable you are feeling, you need to cut them all off completely.

Get a new phone number, and I'm glad you spent time with the friend and his wife.

[goldylamont]

fft you are going through an incredible amount of emotional drama right now. and i applaud you on your strength, drawing your boundaries and moving her out. but i think you are still vulnerable and clinging to the idea that you can help her--you can't. moving her out of your home was **healthy** for both of you, and what is her response? to try to control you by any means necessary, to stalk you, to lie and manipulate her family for her cause. you can't help her... . but you *can* help her to do what she really wants, you can help her pull you down back into her insanity, if you let her. i can't imagine how painful it is contemplating your ex committing suicide. i have big grievances with my ex but it would still hurt me so much if this ever happened to her. but whatever is going to happen to her in the future--it's going to happen, there's nothing you can do about it, but you can save yourself. the church and newfound religion, the claims that she wants therapy, all of this is a ruse so she can keep her hooks into you and drag you back in. right now what brings her the most pleasure is to bring you pain. and you're really starting to piss her off because it looks like you may walk away and not let her inject even more of her emotional poison. don't believe anything she says about trying to get better and her wanting to mend the relationship. she doesn't need a preacher or therapist to apologize for the way she treated you, to give you loving space right now so that you can heal, to stop lying and manipulating those around her. she hasn't listened to a damn thing you've said. she hasn't stopped contacting you or given you space. she's only concerned with her own agenda and you already know this doesn't include any honesty or respect for you. from the stories you are telling, if you stay in contact with this person she won't be happy until you are sitting in a jail cell on trumped up abuse charges. it just all sounds like a dangerous ploy to me. pwBPD use our needs to want to help them against us--it's just what they do. if you can wait things out she has the capability to attach to a new victim *very* fast and then even if you wanted to stay in contact since she has new blood she probably wouldn't bat an eye to keep in touch with you. i think stopping all contact, documenting everything in case legal recourse is needed, and waiting for her to inevitably attach to a different target is the best thing for you to do. take care fft, you're really doing well considering the emotional storm you are in the middle of. congratulate yourself, but be very aware of how dangerous this person is.

[Clearmind]

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