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Author Topic: Do they ever realize you did really love them?  (Read 538 times)
myself
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« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2013, 09:07:40 PM »

Yes, but No.

Yes, because they can tell it's different than the 'bad love' they got as children.

No, because they can't trust it so turn against it.

Yes, they are open enough to recognize it.

No, they're too closed off to accept your sincerity.

Yes, if asked, they would say you that No you do not really love them.

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Emelie Emelie
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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2013, 09:31:14 PM »

I think he knew I loved him very much.  But he couldn't trust that love.  Couldn't trust that it would "stay".  That was the recurring theme in our relationship... ."You'll get tired of my BS and leave me." 
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2013, 09:36:53 PM »

I think he knew I loved him very much.  But he couldn't trust that love.  Couldn't trust that it would "stay".  That was the recurring theme in our relationship... ."You'll get tired of my BS and leave me.

That.

In bold.

My exUBPDgf told me the same exact thing in both rounds of relationship.

And both times... .

She left me.

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Emelie Emelie
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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2013, 11:08:18 PM »

Ironman:  He left me too.
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2013, 11:48:06 PM »

I think he knew I loved him very much.  But he couldn't trust that love.  Couldn't trust that it would "stay".  That was the recurring theme in our relationship... ."You'll get tired of my BS and leave me."  

Of course many times they know you love them but that's not the issue.  The issue is trust and commitment, and when they feel that vulnerability  (don't feel good enough, won't tolerate their b/s, will find better, etc.) their anxiety starts to overwhelm them because abandonment thoughts ensue and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

They just haven't learned how to manage/cope with the these fears like normal people.  If they can't control you, they try to test you and/or leave you.  That's the end game.  It's not for their own entertainment, it's just their self-defense mechanism.

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Clearmind
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2013, 03:59:08 AM »

I feel like I gave unconditional love through a lot of storms (their storms)

In hindsight my 'love' for my ex was conditional. I tried to change him way too many times to count. So I really question whether in fact it was love at all. 2 years out I am convinced it was not unconditional love.

Unconditional love is affection without limitations - there were plenty of limitations - I withdrew affection and communication, I was passive aggressive in many ways and I expected him to be something he was not... .thats not unconditional. Feelings towards my partner would flip flop daily! Some days I wondered why I was with him, how I could be with him, how I could be intimate with him. Some days I wanted to run, hide, fight back - and sometimes I fought back with gusto!... .thats not unconditional love.

Love is not enough! Was it really love to begin with... .or need for both! Ever wondered why its so hard to 'get over' a BPD relationship!
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« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2013, 04:42:54 AM »

For me its also not only did she know that I loved her at the time but also what does she think looking back in hindsight of our relationship (provided she ever does which I kind of doubt since she has moved to the next one).

I tend to think she has a filter in her mind that she runs everything through, especially when we talk/argue about something about the kids you can see it in her eyes when she 'reframes', and runs what she heard into her brain how she WANTS to hear it and then completely distorts it. Its almost like she also filters her memories and recollections as well (How many times do you see distorted memories coming from them? Things that never happened etc)

So I dont think its always about how they feel/remember but how well they distort what goes into or out of their memory. They twist/distort facts to fit the agenda at the moment. Its a coping mechanism
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mcc503764
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« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2013, 09:11:56 AM »

I'm not sure either.  But I had a thought about relating this to how my ex's parents may have showed her love growing up.  She was an only child, very bratty in some ways.  I think she developed an idea of love from the actions of her parents doing and getting whatever she wanted and also having all attention focused on her.  This was love to her I think.

Same situation with mine.  It was almost as if she were raised with a sense of entitlement, never had to work for anything as everything was provided for her... .

I did try and change her.  I needed the r/s to be a team, together.  The more and more I reflect, I remember things that she had said.  Key words if you will... .but at the time, I didn't know of BPD... .She dropped many "hints" of it, so to speak, but again I didn't know any better... .

Mine definitely had selective hearing.  I could pour my heart out to her, and she would only pick out everything that applied to HER and ultimately make MY feelings all about HER... .

But, at this point, I have to ask myself, "does it really matter?"  All I can go from are the actions, and that's it.  We all know that the "words" are lies that are only used to try and get what they want/need at the time...

I did love her to the best of my abilities.  She couldn't see it, nor appreciate it... .but that's HER inventory, not mine.

I understand her coping mechanism, as I saw the twisting of facts to fit her at the moment.  It's sad... .a shame if you will, and not because I'm not with her, but it's sad to see another person have to go through life like this... .

MCC

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« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2013, 09:23:06 AM »

I don't know if he ever realized I loved him.

Over the years, I've had to really question if I did.  At the time, you couldn't have convinced me that I didn't.  I mean... .I luuuuvvvvved him and NO ONE could have told me differently.

However... .looking back... .what we had was not "love."  It was some kind of twisted enmeshment.  When I look at the relationship, it was not "love" -- at least not the kind of "love" that is healthy or reciprocal.  And the truth is, I didn't know anymore about "love" than he did.  I might not have been as horrible as he was, and sure, I'd like to think I was more enlightened than he was, but the fact that I stayed in that nightmare as long as I did proves that I knew no more about "love" than he did.  If I had loved myself, I would have NEVER gotten caught up in that mess in the first place.

So... ."love."  It's a hard word to define.  :)oes he realize I "loved" him?  How could he?  What we had was not "love."  If that was "love," I want no part of it.  And that includes HIS behavior as well as MINE.

turtle

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mcc503764
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« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2013, 09:32:47 AM »

That's an excellent point!

As my xBPD (therapist) told me how we had a trauma bond... .makes sense.  As we were together through multiple deaths and situations.  I guess I thought those situations would allow us to grow stronger as a couple?  Just the opposite... .

MCC
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leftbehind
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« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2013, 11:37:45 AM »

I often wonder this.  When my ex was breaking up with me, I was crying hysterically, and he calmly told me that no one else had ever appreciated him as much as I had.  That was supposed to be my parting gift - my consolation prize.  I made him feel appreciated.  I guess because I kept telling him how wonderful I felt he was (and I sincerely meant it.)

But is that the same as him knowing how much I loved him?  The fact that I can't hate him or wish him ill after all that he's done to me?  The fact that I still think he's just a flawed human being, even throughout his calculated behavior?

I believe he doesn't think of me at all.  Like someone else said earlier in this thread, they think about the one they're with at the moment.  Like a shark, constantly moving forward or else they die. 

Sorry to be overdramatic.  I'm having a really sh**ty week.

And you know what's messed up?  My birthday is coming up soon, and I check the mailbox every day to see if he'll send me a card!  How delusional!  I so want to believe that I meant "Something" to him.

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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2013, 12:16:44 PM »

I often wonder this.  When my ex was breaking up with me, I was crying hysterically, and he calmly told me that no one else had ever appreciated him as much as I had.  That was supposed to be my parting gift - my consolation prize.  I made him feel appreciated.  I guess because I kept telling him how wonderful I felt he was (and I sincerely meant it.)

But is that the same as him knowing how much I loved him?  The fact that I can't hate him or wish him ill after all that he's done to me?  The fact that I still think he's just a flawed human being, even throughout his calculated behavior?

I believe he doesn't think of me at all.  Like someone else said earlier in this thread, they think about the one they're with at the moment.  Like a shark, constantly moving forward or else they die. 

Sorry to be overdramatic.  I'm having a really sh**ty week.

And you know what's messed up?  My birthday is coming up soon, and I check the mailbox every day to see if he'll send me a card!  How delusional!  I so want to believe that I meant "Something" to him.

Have you heard that BPD's are thought of as model citizens by folks who don't know them well, and those in intimate relationships with them are the only ones who see the dark side?  That was my consolation and validation, the fact that I got in deep enough and mattered enough to my BPD ex that I triggered the traits and saw the ugliness in full bloom.  Admittedly not much of a prize, but that's all the validation we're going to get: we mattered enough to trigger and get drawn into the push/pull ugliness of the disorder.  It also gave me some compassion for her, to see how she sees the world and in a sense experience how it felt for her in her childhood, no wonder she talks about killing herself a lot.
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2013, 12:24:49 PM »

I often wonder this.  When my ex was breaking up with me, I was crying hysterically, and he calmly told me that no one else had ever appreciated him as much as I had.  That was supposed to be my parting gift - my consolation prize.  I made him feel appreciated.  I guess because I kept telling him how wonderful I felt he was (and I sincerely meant it.)

But is that the same as him knowing how much I loved him?  The fact that I can't hate him or wish him ill after all that he's done to me?  The fact that I still think he's just a flawed human being, even throughout his calculated behavior?

I believe he doesn't think of me at all.  Like someone else said earlier in this thread, they think about the one they're with at the moment.  Like a shark, constantly moving forward or else they die. 

Sorry to be overdramatic.  I'm having a really sh**ty week.

And you know what's messed up?  My birthday is coming up soon, and I check the mailbox every day to see if he'll send me a card!  How delusional!  I so want to believe that I meant "Something" to him.

Have you heard that BPD's are thought of as model citizens by folks who don't know them well, and those in intimate relationships with them are the only ones who see the dark side?  That was my consolation and validation, the fact that I got in deep enough and mattered enough to my BPD ex that I triggered the traits and saw the ugliness in full bloom.  Admittedly not much of a prize, but that's all the validation we're going to get: we mattered enough to trigger and get drawn into the push/pull ugliness of the disorder.  It also gave me some compassion for her, to see how she sees the world and in a sense experience how it felt for her in her childhood, no wonder she talks about killing herself a lot.

That.

In bold.

For me, that was one of the most maddening... .

Disheartening things I experienced with my exUBPDgf.

I wanted to scream when I saw that.

Those other people... .

Will never know her.

They only know the hologram.

Doppelgänger.

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turtle
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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2013, 12:29:24 PM »



Had to look up ":)oppelgänger."

I love words and always look up words I am unfamiliar with.

Here's the definition:

A ghostly double of a living person, especially one that haunts its fleshly counterpart.

Wow.  GREAT word.

turtle

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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2013, 06:24:52 PM »

Turtle,

Thank you.

We get the fleshy version... .

Everyone else around them gets the ghostly double.

This is probably one of the main reasons why so many with that disorder do not get treatment.

A perpetual propping up by the enabling family/friends of my exUBPDgf will only fuel her to never seek help.

Those enabling friends/family unwittingly contribute to all the destruction that is left in the wake.

Not saying it is their fault... .

But they certainly do not help matters.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

Had to let that out.

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mcc503764
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2013, 08:55:55 AM »

I believe he doesn't think of me at all.  Like someone else said earlier in this thread, they think about the one they're with at the moment.  Like a shark, constantly moving forward or else they die. 


And you know what's messed up?  My birthday is coming up soon, and I check the mailbox every day to see if he'll send me a card!  How delusional!  I so want to believe that I meant "Something" to him.

I like the shark analogy... .it really sums it up well... .They will think of us, when/if they need something.  Other than that, I would assume that she is with her new supply, so life is "puppies and kittens" for her right now.

Today is actually my birthday, and I've kinda found myself looking over my shoulder the past couple of days.  I am not saying that I want her to contact me, I just guess I want to try and remain vigilant. 

I think that sending a card or a text would be a normal action for someone.  But the more I think about it, I have come to the realization that during my last contact with her, I told her how I didn't want to hang onto the anger/hate from the r/s any longer.  It was bringing me down too much. 

Obviously she is still harboring those feelings, and the fact that she hasn't attempted contact for my birthday, shows it... .

In her world, I have to be the "demon," otherwise how could she begin to justify her actions?  How else could she be the "victim?"

Same cycle, same pattern... .wash, rinse, repeat... .

MCC
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estee

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« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2013, 09:47:52 AM »

Do people with BPD that had a stable, loving partner leave their lives ever realize they were truly loved? I feel like I gave unconditional love through a lot of storms (their storms) for a long time and just grew numb after a while and worn out from the pushed away and pulled back in. I left him... I don't know if that matters.

I'm fascinated and relieved to have come across this string. I've often wondered if I was the only one who is so bothered (to put it mildly) that my ex boyfriend questioned whether I loved him. We had a brief but intense (of course) relationship that I was constantly trying to regulate (take it slower so that we could really get to know each other) but that he wanted to go full steam ahead with. Obviously, the highs were very high but I also wanted to know him and talk more deeply, which is something he couldn't do. If I ever needed alone time or time with friends (which actually wasn't too often and has never been an "issue" in any other relationship), he took it as rejection. He pulled a Jeckyl/Hyde on me after 4 months of dating and it was all down hill from there with accusations that I never loved him, while he said he loved me from the start. It wasn't true. I did love him even though I had doubts about his ability to be truly close. To him it was not an option to have shades of gray and the desire for a deeper relationship. (Let's face it, the mirroring was amazing and because of it I had the confused feeling of having found my soul mate despite my doubts. What a mind f***.)

Anyway, I knew something was very wrong and after talking to my therapist and reading a lot I realized it was BPD. In the end I knew he was broken and ill and I ended it with a letter when he was giving me the silent treatment and wouldn't return my calls. In the letter, I was so compassionate and I tried to understand him and show him real love before it ended. I simply HATE that he questioned my sincerity. It's like I was completely invalidated and I might as well have been an ass to him.

He once told me when we were trying to patch up what was clearly unpatchable that I was "a very special person" because I was showing him the kind of love that tries to understand and doesn't lash back, but at the same time he saw that I was standing up for myself. I don't think he had ever experienced that combination. I really think he meant that in the moment (that I was special). But I hate that he never fought for me in the end, for us, when I was supposedly his true love. And I really hate that he never appreciated the extent of my love for him... .the kind that saw through to his essence and so wanted him to be healthy and able to be in a real relationship with me.

I wonder if because he never understood my love for him that he also never understood how much he devastated me. I often wish I had just lambasted him and told him he was an ass instead of writing that I was "above all a friend" and knew he was going through a lot of pain, just as I was too. Too nice. Way too nice. I thought maybe he'd get help and we would at least be able to be talk again no matter what the outcome... .because I loved him as a whole person not an obsession. To this day I want to scream and say "how dare you treat me like I was less than human and that your feelings were the only ones that mattered... .and like I didn't even have feelings even though you watched me sob!" It just makes me feel like the love and sincerity and effort were completely for naught and makes me feel so incredibly cheated out of having him acknowledge my essence and love when I went out of my way to acknowledge his. I just wish he were capable of contacting me one day and saying "I knew you loved me and really tried to make it work. I just couldn't let myself be loved by you." But I know that will never happen. I hope a healthy relationship will someday take away all this pain that still lingers from feeling that I was sucked dry emotionally and never acknowledged for what I felt for him and the compassion I gave to him.
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2013, 10:14:39 AM »

Do people with BPD that had a stable, loving partner leave their lives ever realize they were truly loved? I feel like I gave unconditional love through a lot of storms (their storms) for a long time and just grew numb after a while and worn out from the pushed away and pulled back in. I left him... I don't know if that matters.

I'm fascinated and relieved to have come across this string. I've often wondered if I was the only one who is so bothered (to put it mildly) that my ex boyfriend questioned whether I loved him. We had a brief but intense (of course) relationship that I was constantly trying to regulate (take it slower so that we could really get to know each other) but that he wanted to go full steam ahead with. Obviously, the highs were very high but I also wanted to know him and talk more deeply, which is something he couldn't do. If I ever needed alone time or time with friends (which actually wasn't too often and has never been an "issue" in any other relationship), he took it as rejection. He pulled a Jeckyl/Hyde on me after 4 months of dating and it was all down hill from there with accusations that I never loved him, while he said he loved me from the start. It wasn't true. I did love him even though I had doubts about his ability to be truly close. To him it was not an option to have shades of gray and the desire for a deeper relationship. (Let's face it, the mirroring was amazing and because of it I had the confused feeling of having found my soul mate despite my doubts. What a mind f***.)

Anyway, I knew something was very wrong and after talking to my therapist and reading a lot I realized it was BPD. In the end I knew he was broken and ill and I ended it with a letter when he was giving me the silent treatment and wouldn't return my calls. In the letter, I was so compassionate and I tried to understand him and show him real love before it ended. I simply HATE that he questioned my sincerity. It's like I was completely invalidated and I might as well have been an ass to him.

He once told me when we were trying to patch up what was clearly unpatchable that I was "a very special person" because I was showing him the kind of love that tries to understand and doesn't lash back, but at the same time he saw that I was standing up for myself. I don't think he had ever experienced that combination. I really think he meant that in the moment (that I was special). But I hate that he never fought for me in the end, for us, when I was supposedly his true love. And I really hate that he never appreciated the extent of my love for him... .the kind that saw through to his essence and so wanted him to be healthy and able to be in a real relationship with me.

I wonder if because he never understood my love for him that he also never understood how much he devastated me. I often wish I had just lambasted him and told him he was an ass instead of writing that I was "above all a friend" and knew he was going through a lot of pain, just as I was too. Too nice. Way too nice. I thought maybe he'd get help and we would at least be able to be talk again no matter what the outcome... .because I loved him as a whole person not an obsession. To this day I want to scream and say "how dare you treat me like I was less than human and that your feelings were the only ones that mattered... .and like I didn't even have feelings even though you watched me sob!" It just makes me feel like the love and sincerity and effort were completely for naught and makes me feel so incredibly cheated out of having him acknowledge my essence and love when I went out of my way to acknowledge his. I just wish he were capable of contacting me one day and saying "I knew you loved me and really tried to make it work. I just couldn't let myself be loved by you." But I know that will never happen. I hope a healthy relationship will someday take away all this pain that still lingers from feeling that I was sucked dry emotionally and never acknowledged for what I felt for him and the compassion I gave to him.

In bold.

I just cried reading that.

The cruel paradox of all of this.
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