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Author Topic: Help me ask the right question  (Read 454 times)
pari
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« on: September 29, 2013, 06:17:50 AM »

In last session, my counsellor asked me to write an essay on 'Why do I still want to help my exBPDbf?' And I am not able to get the real answers. I would highly appreciate if I can get some pointers on right questions to ask myself to help identify the core issue here.

Quick History: I met my exBPDbf in Jan 2011. We got into r/s in Dec 2011 and were together till June 2013, including 6 months of recycling. Recycling ended when he found my replacement in the June 2013. Sometime in end of June 2013, I told that I want to be with him but he was too scared to be with me and wanted to continue the r/s with replacement. We are in LC since then. It was a typical BPD r/s high highs, low lows, lot of passion and intimacy, hurt and arguments.

Recently, he has been calling me desperation, saying that he is depressed and has no desire to do anything.  He hates himself and is ashamed of poor choices he has made but doesn't learn, doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't know who to talk to and also acknowledges the fact that it's not fair to call me to bhit about his life. Due to his new r/s, his friends also don't hang out with him (inside story). Now interesting part is, I listen to him, validate and empathize and offer help and by then, he would hang up the phone. He doesn't follow up, doesn't even need my advice. He calls me just to bhit, project and makes me feel bad about me. And I still want to help him and burn my fingers everytime I try to do so. I don't understand why, don't understand my own behaviour.

So my Reasons could be:

- Belief that I understand him the best and can help him.

- Belief that I am the only survivor he has.

- Belief that if I help him see the light now, he might change his attitude and be a happier person

- Belief that he needs support to heal from the breakup and has no other support around. Hence I can't abandon him. That would be mean. But he abandoned me. 

- Belief that probably he realize his mistakes and talk about it.

- Fact that he has an illness and needs help. Even if he realizes his mistakes, he doesn't know what to do. Since we have been close, I can help him by listening.

- Belief that I can help people, especially loved ones and make a difference in their life.

- Belief that he was the love of my life and I have to save him, help him shine.

I don't know what's going on. I love him too much. I think about him and miss him all the time. He even told me that why don't you find someone so I can move on. When I asked, really will that help you? He wasn't even sure then.

I recently posted about my recovery that I am doing well in the healing process. I tried my best to make it work and failed. Accepting the reality of his disorder and healing myself. I have no desire to try to make it work with him. I need to work on myself and this is another step for that.

Would seriously appreciate help here.

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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 06:39:20 AM »

Pari,

I am so sorry you have to experience him calling you to vent all his frustrations out on you.

I can imagine how hurtful that must be.

Perhaps the first question would be... .

Why are you still allowing yourself to be exposed to this disordered person?

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eeyore
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 06:41:43 AM »

He doesn't follow up, doesn't even need my advice. He calls me just to bhit, project and makes me feel bad about me. And I still want to help him and burn my fingers every time I try to do so.

1.  Have you ever heard of False Hope?  

2.  What are your societal experiences with Forgiveness?   Has it been ingrained in you that love conquers?  (If you love enough he will change?)  From where are your experiences where you get your ideas about Love?  

For me I hear people say if he loved you he would hit_____.  

However, I now know sometimes two people can love each other and not be compatible.  Relationships require more than just love.  Most importantly they require two healthy people.  

What do you think?


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pari
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 07:04:56 AM »

Thanks for your response eeyore and Ironman.

My r/s with my xbf was my first ever. It felt so right to be with him. I also believe is that if I love him truly, I need to him go, which I believe I did.

I have come in terms with his new r/s and new gf. I am happy that he has someone with him and also happy that it's not me :P. He still is a very special person to me. Probably because of intimacy and deep emotional connection. I want to see him happy and help him be stronger person to face life, not as a lover/ex/partner but as a close friend who understands him well. Not trying to fix him but support him by validation. I am not trying to win his heart or be a hero doing this. I know he is hurting and is sad. I just have this simple wish to see him happier.

By logic, this doesn't make sense. Why would I be concerned about someone's happiness who actually abandoned me or who was not there for me? By feelings, I know he is incapable of dealing with emotions. It's like algebra puzzle given to someone who only knows numbers. He is upset about his mistakes, hates himself but doesn't know how to forgive himself. I feel bad for him and want to help. Don't understand why? May be because I am a very empathetic person.

I believe that there was something magical between us but time wasn't right. We both are at different phases in life and have to continue our journey separately. Small amount of time we shared together, was to teach us both things we didn't know about ourselves. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Does this sound like I am still stuck in past?

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eeyore
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 07:27:57 AM »

sounds like avoidance.  If you concentrate on his issues you don't have to look at your own.  All I saw in your post was your concern with him, him, him.  Nothing about how you deserve a person who treats you respectfully with love.  The message in your reply is all about what he needs and his frailties.  What do you need? 

If you let him go that means you let him live with the choices he has made.  They aren't your concern.  That's not the message in your post.  Yes you wish him well.  That doesn't mean you have to listen to him and console him.  That's what his new girlfriend is for.  He should be being a friend to you allowing you the space to be healthy.  Nothing about the dynamic is healthy.  (Yes easy to say not easy to do.)

I think you hope he will see you are better than her and that he will come back to you.  You should accept he doesn't have the ability.  Timing doesn't have anything to do it.  Embrace your free will to move on and be happy with someone else.  Someone who is mentally healthy.   
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doubleAries
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 11:10:17 AM »

pari,

As I look at your list of reasons, I see something... .every one of the reasons is about HIM.

Your focus is on HIM--not yourself. The answer to your question ("why do I still want to help my exBPDbf" is inside YOURSELF--not him. You've lost yourself in HIM. And maybe that's the real question: why have I lost myself in my exBPDbf?

That's the place--inside yourself--to start looking for the answer to that question.

Sometimes we come to believe that sacrificing ourselves on the altar of "selflessness" is the truest, highest love we can offer. Not only does that point to a belief that our self is not valuable, but it also makes the relationship pretty one-sided--there's only 1 person involved, and it isn't us, it's HIM. And ONLY him. We don't have anything to offer except a reflection.

Perhaps here's another "right" question: (one I've had to ask myself as well) "what do I have to offer in a relationship besides an adoring reflection?"

have no fear--you're on the path to recovering a self!
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 01:24:42 PM »

First, if he really is BPD or exhibits traits, and you're not and you've decided that the relationship is over, I recommend you cut all ties with him and go NC.  Spending any time at all with that pathology is crazy making, as I'm sure you can attest, and this is the personal inventory board, where it's no longer about them, it's about us and our healing; any further contact with him will send you back to square one in your own healing.

That question your counselor asked is a great one.  For me the gift of my BPD nightmare was it allowed (forced?) me to look at my own unfinished business.  Although I grew up in a "good home", there was no openly shared affection or emotion; some people say they grew up in a dysfunctional family, I say I grew up in a nonfunctional one, we were just going through the motions.

I learned much later that both of my parents did love me very much, they were just terrified of expressing it, and had grown up in a culture where emotions were not expressed themselves.  I didn't realize it at the time, but I was starving for that affection, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't 'good enough' to receive it, so I had to act, behave, modify myself in some way to get it, conditional love, and even then it wasn't enough.  It took me until now really to start giving it to myself, and only letting people in who are able and willing to give it to me.

So that same scenario played out with my BPD.  When she distanced herself from me for her own convoluted reasons, which had nothing to do with me, I instinctually went back to childhood, and got really busy trying to be the person she would light up to again.  :)idn't work.  But acting in that mode unearthed that childhood trauma again, which hurts at our core, and addressing that has been my highest priority since I removed myself from hell.

Any of that resonate?
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P.F.Change
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 02:55:18 PM »

A few more suggestions to help you examine your "prompt:"

--What do I get out of trying to help him? Is there an emotional payoff?

--What would happen if I didn't try to help him?

--What does it say about who I am when I help? What about when I say no to helping?

Good luck!

Wishing you peace,

PF
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“If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading.”--Lao Tzu
pari
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 11:46:44 AM »

Thank you all for your wonderful insights. I think I am finally figuring it out. It's painful but I really needed to understand this about myself.

Yes, it's all about him. By helping him, I think I am trying to find my self worth, knowing that I am loved, needed, even as a friend. Knowing that I can do something for someone is very important for me for my healing because it helps me realize that I am worth. And he is an easy target because I know he needs help and I know how to help him. Infact, this feeling 'I can help someone' often drives me and overwhelms me. I never understood why. Not only in my r/s with my ex, but with my family and friends, I go beyond my limits to offer help and am left exhausted because I burn myself out/couldn't do enough/not recognized enough etc. And I continue to repeat it. I don't learn after burning my hands. Probably, It's a way for me to get self validation that my existence is meaningful, that I can make a difference.

I have always been a lonely person. Being the eldest of siblings, I was always expected to be understanding, mature and do the right thing. As a kid, I would often get to hear that you are too mature for your age and wouldn't understand the meaning. As I grew up, I realized that I never lived my childhood. I have no memories of being a kid. My mom was always busy taking care of younger siblings. Even as a kid, I was never close to my mom because my sister would get jealous. To make sister happy, I would not come close to mom. Dad was too busy pointing my mistakes to make me perfect. Yes, I never felt loved as a child, teenager or even now. I also know that this feeling is not true because my parents do love me (I have heard this many times from sister and brother) probably it doesn't come across in a way that I would understand. I am very proud of how they have raised me and I have been a good daughter, responsible, smart, successful, honest and independent. It's not in my family to appreciate others and probably I worked too hard to be the good kid, I long for that acknowledgement from my parents. So I think to find meaning for existence, I try to offer help to anyone who needed. It would give me immense satisfaction that I made someone happy, I did something for someone. I am acknowledged. My existence is acknowledged.

There is a contradictory feeling of entitlement outside the realm of close friends and family. Socially, I have a fair sense of how should I be treated. If I don't get it, I am not hesitant to demand it. I am not scared to ask for fairness at workplace. I often ask people to leave seats for elderly in public transport. If I see people throwing garbage on streets, I pick it up and give it back to them, asking to throw it in the bin. If I don't get good service in a restaurant, I make sure I let them know that I am not please and they could do better. So yeah, this sounds like I have a fair idea of what I deserve socially, but I don't know what comes over me when it comes to family and close friends.

I do not know how to validate myself and comfort myself. I often feel like even if I die, it won't matter to anyone. These feelings have gotten stronger after breakup with exBPDbf because he loved me in a way that I could receive and understand. Probably due to mirroring or it must have been my imagination.

I am open for learning about myself. I like taking my time to do things and believe in baby steps.  I know there is something not right and appreciate your inputs in these realizations. I think I am getting there.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

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eeyore
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 01:16:07 PM »

So what are you going to do for yourself today?
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DreamFlyer99
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2013, 04:36:45 PM »

Pari--

you said,

Excerpt
Yes, it's all about him. By helping him, I think I am trying to find my self worth, knowing that I am loved, needed, even as a friend. Knowing that I can do something for someone is very important for me for my healing because it helps me realize that I am worth]

When I first came to bpdfamily I read something another member wrote that made such a huge impact on me, wish I could remember who they were, but basically they said "I realized that if he was all about him and I was all about him, who was taking care of me?"

Somewhere in the past 2 years of craziness with and realizations about my uBPDh, I realized that when I got my self-worth from him--the years of our marriage when he would find me "hormonally desirable" I thought that MADE me desirable. So then when he hit his recent years of NOT finding me remotely desirable, I felt worse about myself. Then I realized whatever he was feeling was about him, nothing really to do with me. Dang. So I came to the realization that the only true worth to be found was in how I actually felt about myself and who I am, before myself and before my God. What my husband "felt" at any given moment was simply that, the feeling of the moment (or month or year... .)

Does your actual worth change based on your ability to "help" him? Or are you the same person all the way through based on your gifts and talents and personality traits and values, no matter who you are around, even if you weren't helping him?

df99

oh--and I have a superstar of a T.
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eeyore
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2013, 07:27:22 PM »

So I came to the realization that the only true worth to be found was in how I actually felt about myself and who I am, before myself and before my God.

Does your actual worth change based on your ability to "help" him? Or are you the same person all the way through based on your gifts and talents and personality traits and values, no matter who you are around, even if you weren't helping him?

Love this! 
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DreamFlyer99
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 09:04:33 AM »

Thanks, Eeyore--much work has been done on self worth, since it takes a lot of work to undo 58ish years of flawed thinking... .
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 10:20:07 AM »

Infact, this feeling 'I can help someone' often drives me and overwhelms me. I never understood why. Not only in my r/s with my ex, but with my family and friends, I go beyond my limits to offer help and am left exhausted because I burn myself out/couldn't do enough/not recognized enough etc. And I continue to repeat it. I don't learn after burning my hands. Probably, It's a way for me to get self validation that my existence is meaningful, that I can make a difference.

You remind me of me pari, and I say we're both people pleasers, just to put a label on it, giving, giving, giving expecting somehow to get having given, exhausting ourselves in the process because it never seems enough, we never get our needs met.  And we don't get self validation, we might get external validation, validation from others, but not self validation.

Much has been written about people pleasing, its origins, and what to do about it, and that mindset makes us a good mark for a BPD too, but the over riding thing for me was I ignored my own needs entirely, as I put everyone else's first.  I also got really good at outrunning painful emotions, and fortunately my BPD experience was so painful that it forced me to look deeper, start focusing on my own needs, stop running and feel emotions, all of them, and start setting and reinforcing boundaries.  Tall order, and best taken in small steps, but I finally feel like I'm on the right path.
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 09:24:39 AM »

This rescue role is an avoidance of self.

He is in your life to teach you to rescue yourself, not him. You can't rescue him.

If you wanted, at a later time when you get less enmeshed in rescue fantasies, maybe with a period of NC, you might have LC with him, that can be a valid choice. But, it would look and feel much different than what you have been doing.

It would have boundaries, you would not just allow him to dump on you... .!

It would be reciprocal, you both get something from the contact... .

You would be aware of what needs you are getting met and aware of your choices.

There would be no rescue fantasy involved, you accept him as he is and take care of yourself with full knowledge of his limitations.

You would not feel hurt or that you are sacrificing self in the hope that being sacrificial will change him, it won't. It will win you the booby prize.

You will be aware that you needed to learn to rescue yourself in a big way and the universe put this challenging person in your path to learn how to do that.

and as you learn to take care of self...  

You may find you do not want to have any contact at all anymore. This would feel fine, too. You would feel thankful for the lesson and free to let go.
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