DBT - love/hate relationship?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

There is something I've been sitting with for a while since the break 3 months ago with my exBPDgf.  Lately, it's been tearing me up, so I thought I might put it out there and get some feedback.

We have had some contact, but mostly none.  She calls or texts me when she is feeling suicidal.  It is difficult because I know she has no stable relationships, which means nobody to turn to.  She is detached from her family and has no actual friends, just people who float in and out of her life. The last call came about two weeks ago, and I talked to her for quite some time about her suicidal idealizations.  No serious plan or anything.  I think she was basically feeling lonely/missing me.

After that, the contact from her came pouring in.  It usually does.  It is really hard because as much as I do love her, I do NOT want to be with her again.  She can sense it in these moments and demands explanations.  I am generally stand-offish, and I never agree to see her and limit the contact as much as possible. 

A few nights ago, I was out on a date with a girl I've been seeing at the movies, and got a text from my exBPDgf that said "I love you baby".  I did not respond.  The next day we did speak, but I didn't acknowledge that text, and basically just listened to her speak about how she had been feeling better.  She could sense my apprehension I think.  Yesterday, she called abuptly and I had just gotten out of the shower so I must've sounded a little disoriented and she felt "rejected" by my tone of voice.  She got upset and hung up. I texted her and apoligized for making her feel rejected and wished her a good night and DBT session.  No response.  Tried calling.  Ignored.

This morning, all hell broke loose.  It seems that whenver she leaves DBT she hates me.  No matter how much support I just provided to her in her moments of weakness and suicidal thought processing, she automatically wants to pinpoint all of the things she hates about me.  I told her this morning that it is selfish of her to come to me in moments of loneliness and desperation and then ignore me.  I asked her to please find other supports because I couldn't handle it anymore, the back and forth.  She immeidately called me every name in the book and said I am not the person she met when we first started dating.  (well, yes, I am a bit jaded after all of the lies, the cheating, reboudning from me with her exes, drug use, etc.) 

Then she told me that her DBT therpaist wants her to disengage with me.  She told me her therapist says I have an image of myself where I think I am a gift to society.  (I don't... .but I can only imagine how I am portrayed at her sessions... )This struck a cord with me.  Her therapist knows me, because I attended group sessions with her.  I am not an evil person by any means.  However, this is how she made me feel by telling me what her therapist said.  I completely support her going to DBT, in fact its a boundary for me.  I require that she is in DBT if she wants to have any contact with me. 

My question is what have you experienced after your loved one attends DBT?  She makes it seem like her therapist thinks I am garbage.  I hate to feel so judged.  I am not a bad person, but somehow her DBT sessions always seem to end with making me feel like garbage.  She says that I "blame" her, and I need to start accepting my role in the breakup (which was basically me watching her walk away after she cheated on me, claiming I wasn't meeting her needs anymore or validating her unhappiness).  I want her in DBT, but I often feel like her scapegoat after she leaves a session.  It hurts to be broken over losing the love of my life, and I just feel like am being kicked while I am down and defenseless.

I love what DBT does for her spirit, but I hate what it does for my character.

[Morrison11]

There is something I've been sitting with for a while since the break 3 months ago with my exBPDgf.  Lately, it's been tearing me up, so I thought I might put it out there and get some feedback.

We have had some contact, but mostly none.  She calls or texts me when she is feeling suicidal.  It is difficult because I know she has no stable relationships, which means nobody to turn to.  She is detached from her family and has no actual friends, just people who float in and out of her life. The last call came about two weeks ago, and I talked to her for quite some time about her suicidal idealizations.  No serious plan or anything.  I think she was basically feeling lonely/missing me.

After that, the contact from her came pouring in.  It usually does.  It is really hard because as much as I do love her, I do NOT want to be with her again.  She can sense it in these moments and demands explanations.  I am generally stand-offish, and I never agree to see her and limit the contact as much as possible. 

A few nights ago, I was out on a date with a girl I've been seeing at the movies, and got a text from my exBPDgf that said "I love you baby".  I did not respond.  The next day we did speak, but I didn't acknowledge that text, and basically just listened to her speak about how she had been feeling better.  She could sense my apprehension I think.  Yesterday, she called abuptly and I had just gotten out of the shower so I must've sounded a little disoriented and she felt "rejected" by my tone of voice.  She got upset and hung up. I texted her and apoligized for making her feel rejected and wished her a good night and DBT session.  No response.  Tried calling.  Ignored.

This morning, all hell broke loose.  It seems that whenver she leaves DBT she hates me.  No matter how much support I just provided to her in her moments of weakness and suicidal thought processing, she automatically wants to pinpoint all of the things she hates about me.  I told her this morning that it is selfish of her to come to me in moments of loneliness and desperation and then ignore me.  I asked her to please find other supports because I couldn't handle it anymore, the back and forth.  She immeidately called me every name in the book and said I am not the person she met when we first started dating.  (well, yes, I am a bit jaded after all of the lies, the cheating, reboudning from me with her exes, drug use, etc.) 

Then she told me that her DBT therpaist wants her to disengage with me.  She told me her therapist says I have an image of myself where I think I am a gift to society.  (I don't... .but I can only imagine how I am portrayed at her sessions... )This struck a cord with me.  Her therapist knows me, because I attended group sessions with her.  I am not an evil person by any means.  However, this is how she made me feel by telling me what her therapist said.  I completely support her going to DBT, in fact its a boundary for me.  I require that she is in DBT if she wants to have any contact with me. 

My question is what have you experienced after your loved one attends DBT?  She makes it seem like her therapist thinks I am garbage.  I hate to feel so judged.  I am not a bad person, but somehow her DBT sessions always seem to end with making me feel like garbage.  She says that I "blame" her, and I need to start accepting my role in the breakup (which was basically me watching her walk away after she cheated on me, claiming I wasn't meeting her needs anymore or validating her unhappiness).  I want her in DBT, but I often feel like her scapegoat after she leaves a session.  It hurts to be broken over losing the love of my life, and I just feel like am being kicked while I am down and defenseless.

I love what DBT does for her spirit, but I hate what it does for my character.

[ShadowDancer]

What "proof" do you have the DBT therapist said ANY of those things. THAT is NOT DBT technique by a loong shot. Maybe you should consider "really" breaking up with her.

[Morrison11]

Well, there is no "proof", but it doesn't mean that these aren't real issues that go through her mind while she is attending sessions that get twisted back to me.  It doesn't mean the idea of it doesn't reflect.  It doesn't mean it isn't something that somebody can ruminate about while trying to fall asleep at night.

Although it is often difficult to decipher tone on message boards, your quotations around "really" give off a sense that you are minimizing, or even judging the prediciment I am in. I have been without this girl for what seems like an eternity, and each day is a challenge. With all do respect,  I would more appreciate constructive feedback here rather than to be knocked down with insolent replies while trying to heal.

Don't forget that we all go through cycles of healing, with different levels of support needed.

[necchi]

Morris... .

I believe what shadow is saying ,is that considering the fact that we are dealing with manipulating sick to the bone love ones, the comment is surely not coming from the T . She won't tell you it's from her, she knows then it would lack validations from her part!

.  My two cents.

[oletimefeelin]

I often was appalled by things my ex said her therapist said about me early on.  It really angered me, which probably is why she kept saying these things.  With the benefit of hindsight now, I realize there was quite a bit more going on here.  First, the therapist is often dealing with imperfect information.  He/she only knows one side of the story.  Their responsibility is to their client.  With a borderline client, I can't imagine a therapist successfully treating this person in the long run by calling them out on all their stuff.  It's a slow process which I'd imagine results in some validation of their distortions with an eye towards building trust and tackling these sorts of distortions down the road.

My ex never trusted her own opinions.  She always needed back up, whether it be a friend, family member, or in this example her therapist.  I think in the beginning her therapist didn't assume anything about her.  Her resume speaks for itself, so I can understand why he wouldn't have assumed borderline immediately.  She knew how to get him to mouth the words to support her whimsical feelings.  I found this very difficult.  When I see people here expecting therapy to solve all the problems in their relationship, I say be careful what you wish for.

If it means anything to you, her therapist did provide me with validation later on down the road as he had built up that trust.  I do think he came to understand her as borderline.  So it went from him telling her that, "he's manipulating you" to "I think [Me] had so much trouble with you because you are so confusing".  Later, he even made sure through her of course that I was seeing a therapist on my own as the reconciliation was crumbling.  He knew how much work I'd put in on myself, while she got worse under his care.  This had to speak volumes.  I'm fairly certain we'd see eye to eye on things if I bumped into him on the street.

It's hard not to take it personally, but consider the source which is what the other person is saying in his/her reply to you.  Therapy is a long road for the borderline and their support system.  You may want to remove yourself entirely for a period of time to protect yourself and her.

[seeking balance]

Hi Morrison,

It seems you are pretty detached with a solid plan.  Since you are in routine contact, I think you actually would get better support on the staying board because you are staying in terms of a friendship.  It is typically the stayers who have DBT experience and how to handle the triggers that may come with this. 

Regarding DBT experience, it may trigger her and learning to detach when she is triggered is key.  Boundaries are important for you with her... .when she brings up issues of your character, can you ask her to use her DBT skills with you... .DEARMAN is a 2 way street.

Again, you will likely get feedback more applicable to your relationship on the staying board.

Peace,

SB

[Numbers]

I often was appalled by things my ex said her therapist said about me early on.  It really angered me, which probably is why she kept saying these things.  With the benefit of hindsight now, I realize there was quite a bit more going on here.

Morrison11,

I can fully understand how this bothers you - you now feel invalidated even by her T. But we can help, by sharing our experiences and pointing out that there IS a clear pattern of behavior.

At one point in time, I arranged for my ex to start sessions with local CBT therapist (there is no DBT in my country). It was under guise to help her with unstable moods and fears, no mention of BPD at that point.

Well, at first she did not want to discuss her sessions (which was ok by me). Then after a few weeks she started "leaking" how her therapist agrees how I am distanced, unemotional and probably in need of therapy myself. Finally, after a few months she declared that T told her that she is perfectly ok and needs no therapy anymore. BUT T supposedly asked for one last session where she should bring me.

2 days before that session she (without doubt) provoked a huge fight that resulted in breakup, cancellation of her father's visit for Christmas and cancellation of already paid New Year holiday trip.

Coincidence? Yeah, right.