Do they ever realize the harm they do ?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi I'm not new here but this is my first post and you guys have beensuch a great support.

Its hard for me to write , there is so much i don't know where to start, but this time I'll just ask this question: do they ever realise the harm,and guilt they have put you through? I guess no because last recycle i thought it was "that one "but even after, she denied the promises and just don't realise the reason i put an end to it. Again i cannot see my son, and she is manipulating my daughter (D is from a prior relation) and projecting... .The usual's. I'm so hurt again why do i even have feelings, why so much emphatie and none in return

[necchi]

Hi I'm not new here but this is my first post and you guys have beensuch a great support.

Its hard for me to write , there is so much i don't know where to start, but this time I'll just ask this question: do they ever realise the harm,and guilt they have put you through? I guess no because last recycle i thought it was "that one "but even after, she denied the promises and just don't realise the reason i put an end to it. Again i cannot see my son, and she is manipulating my daughter (D is from a prior relation) and projecting... .The usual's. I'm so hurt again why do i even have feelings, why so much emphatie and none in return

[Ironmanrises]

Yes.

But with a catch.

They realize this... .

In transitory moments.

From point A... .

To point B.

Then that realization disappears... .

For transitory moments... .

From point A... .

To point B.

And reappears.

Again... .

And again.

A cycle.

Of hell.

[necchi]

I feel she Will try again to reel me in and I'm trying so hard to move on, all this has put me into a standing still for many years. Being add, procrastination is so easy even my oldest son wich lives with me suffers the consequences its all my fault in the end . I just must go on. The memories and the lack of closures are obsessing me all day, i even started to dream of her, that never happened before.

[Ironmanrises]

Marin... .

I am so sorry you are experiencing that.

I know it hurts.

We all know that pain... .

Here.

It is reflected... .

In all of our accounts.

Try and resist her reeling you back in... .

Otherwise... .

She will only repeat the behavior... .

That you experienced... .

On far worse levels... .

Of pain and cruelty... .

To you.

Post on here.

We will hear you.

You are not alone.

Hang in there.

[Knowingishalf]

I don't think in my experience that mine realized the harm and damage they caused.  I think the real secret was because it didn't happen to them.  I noticed if it didn't happen to them well it didn't happen.  I am sure some little voice inside is screaming about that they are doing they don't listen since they buried that voice so long ago.  So of this is a little pent op frustration from so many years (10)... .

[necchi]

So yo are saying even if i keep nc (been 3 months) she will keep devaluate me

.                     i know that answer... .

[Aw511]

Mine felt horrible guilt after impulse cheating which resulted in my leaving... But like ironman described, from moment to moment this changed. When he is drunk and alone and not working 75 hours a week, or flirting with new women online, he feels it. He knows he hurts people, and wants to be a better man, but he can't, because his disorder won't allow it. As long as he finds distractions (which he does so well) the guilt will be fleeting. Now, over a month later I am sure it is a distant memory to him. I think in a way he feels the one who was wronged because technically I left him but I think this is just a mental defense  to rationalize their behavior. They see things how they want to not as they are... .

[necchi]

Thank you all ! Xxx

I greatly appreciate  

[necchi]

So sorry for you  :'(

[MyKryptonite]

My mind tells me in some cases yes they can in others no they can't.

From my experience "Lois" (A pseudonym obviously) seemed to recognize it on occasion, usually in our therapists office, even apologized once or twice but then her mood would shift and everything she admitted, owned and apologized for once again became my fault in her eyes.

[DragoN]

Same as MyKryptonite.

Only very short term, sometimes, maybe an apology. But was still my fault.

Nail in the Fence

Author Unknown

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the back of the fence.

The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence. Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper. The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said, "You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the wound is still there."

The little boy then understood how powerful his words were. He looked up at his father and said "I hope you can forgive me father for the holes I put in you."

"Of course I can," said the father.

Unlike the little boy, the BPD don't learn anything. They get better at lying to themselves.

[Emelie Emelie]

I don't think in my experience that mine realized the harm and damage they caused.  I think the real secret was because it didn't happen to them.  I noticed if it didn't happen to them well it didn't happen.  I am sure some little voice inside is screaming about that they are doing they don't listen since they buried that voice so long ago.  So of this is a little pent op frustration from so many years (10)... .

I think this is true.  In my experience he was so caught up in his feelings all the time; his pain, his hurt, his anger that I don't think he could have true empathy for someone else's feelings.  He's also dealing with the low self-worth, the pervasive sense of self-loathing... .he's got to make it someone else's fault.  He would apologize after raging at me, saying hurtful things.  But I think he believed his anger was the only issue.  I don't think he had any idea how much the other BPD behaviors hurt... .the devaluing, the discarding.  He still feels like I have 50% of the responsibility for the break up because I walked out when he was being very verbally abusive.  After weeks of him pulling away.  I guess the good new is at first he put 100% of the blame on me.  A few months later he admitted he had been ambivalent about the relationship. 

[goldylamont]

like others i think it depends on the situation. of course we're all aware of how they blame everything on you and take no responsibility for anything, so in this sense i imagine they feel like they are being victimized by us. in this case i think they only know their own pain. i remember distinctly feeling like i was never able to address my issues of feeling bad just b/c she had so many issues herself. it's a selfish state of mind.

then on the other side of the coin, of course they realize the harm they do. when seeking revenge and punishing people, well the whole point of it is to cause harm. it doesn't seem like all people have experienced this level of retribution, although many (most?) have in some form. but yes i would say that my ex not only knew the harm she was doing but put every ounce of her soul into causing more pain. this is something they do over and over and seem to understand very well.

[Emelie Emelie]

like others i think it depends on the situation. of course we're all aware of how they blame everything on you and take no responsibility for anything, so in this sense i imagine they feel like they are being victimized by us. in this case i think they only know their own pain. i remember distinctly feeling like i was never able to address my issues of feeling bad just b/c she had so many issues herself. it's a selfish state of mind.

then on the other side of the coin, of course they realize the harm they do. when seeking revenge and punishing people, well the whole point of it is to cause harm. it doesn't seem like all people have experienced this level of retribution, although many (most?) have in some form. but yes i would say that my ex not only knew the harm she was doing but put every ounce of her soul into causing more pain. this is something they do over and over and seem to understand very well.

That's chilling.  I think my xBF would absolutely do that when he was losing it.  But only when he was losing it.

[laelle]

Even if they do realize that they harm those that they love, their faulty and immature executive system weaves a lie to tell even them a different story.

I cheated on her... .wow, I feel bad (cant be black)... .oh well she deserved it... .she is always telling me that she loves me, but then sometimes I call her and she doesn't answer.

I bet she is doing the same thing.  I am not a bad guy so it must be her.  She brought this on herself.

So you become the blame of his actions... .and he gets to walk away feeling "justified and vindicated" as they are Judge and Jury in their own world.

Even if they know it is wrong, they have no skills to be able to process their actions, take accountability, and change their behavior. After all, why should they have to change themselves when it is YOU with the problem.

 Laelle

[MyKryptonite]

Same as MyKryptonite.

Only very short term, sometimes, maybe an apology. But was still my fault.

Nail in the Fence

Author Unknown

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the back of the fence.

The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence. Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper. The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said, "You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the wound is still there."

The little boy then understood how powerful his words were. He looked up at his father and said "I hope you can forgive me father for the holes I put in you."

"Of course I can," said the father.

Unlike the little boy, the BPD don't learn anything. They get better at lying to themselves.

I read this story before, but today it brought me to tears. . .

[maxen]

goldylamont's experience has been mine too:

like others i think it depends on the situation. of course we're all aware of how they blame everything on you and take no responsibility for anything, so in this sense i imagine they feel like they are being victimized by us. in this case i think they only know their own pain. i remember distinctly feeling like i was never able to address my issues of feeling bad just b/c she had so many issues herself. it's a selfish state of mind.

then on the other side of the coin, of course they realize the harm they do. when seeking revenge and punishing people, well the whole point of it is to cause harm. it doesn't seem like all people have experienced this level of retribution, although many (most?) have in some form. but yes i would say that my ex not only knew the harm she was doing but put every ounce of her soul into causing more pain. this is something they do over and over and seem to understand very well.

often since she left via exit affair (so: attaching to someone else before leaving), but not once before (so: black/white feelings), mine has used every variety of viciousness, including telling me while she was doing it that she loved me:

"i will always love you and care for your heart. however i feel that if i returned to the marriage, i would only be saving you. this time i am saving myself."

etc etc. this of course is a person who has started relationships behind that backs of four (now) partners. so it's not just 'this time' that she's saving herself either. (yes, more fool me.)

[goldylamont]

i think it's important to accept the totality of what was. specifically for the question ":)o they ever realize the harm that they do?"--sometimes they don't, sometimes they do. what i've learned about myself is that i simply have to trust my gut instinct on the matter. there were times when i felt wronged when i truly don't feel she meant it. at the same time there were times when i know that she was purposefully punishing. and accepting both as true is a good milestone for me to move forward.

knowing that some of my ex's behavior was meant to harm me doesn't get me stuck in victim mode. i think with distance it just shows me that i need to be careful not to put myself in the same position again (with her or anyone else).

the healing that i seek and self work that i'm doing doesn't require my xuBPD to be "nice" or for me to make excuses for her behavior. rather, i can see that her treatment of the situation was unfair, still knowing that in time that sometimes bad things happen to good people. and that i'm ok with this. i'm proud of myself thus far with how i've dealt with things, while keeping an eye on myself to ensure i make a full and detached recovery.

[Oliolioxenfree]

Hi I'm not new here but this is my first post and you guys have beensuch a great support.

Its hard for me to write , there is so much i don't know where to start, but this time I'll just ask this question: do they ever realise the harm,and guilt they have put you through? I guess no because last recycle i thought it was "that one "but even after, she denied the promises and just don't realise the reason i put an end to it. Again i cannot see my son, and she is manipulating my daughter (D is from a prior relation) and projecting... .The usual's. I'm so hurt again why do i even have feelings, why so much emphatie and none in return

They have no empathy so it is impossible for them to have genuine remorse, that would require them to be able to feel the pain of others and identify with it.

I think The so called “remorse” they feel is the guilt or pain of getting caught  or their fear of abandonment getting triggered.


Even in their most lucid moments, they do not possess empathy.

[Conundrum]

I believe it is very difficult for them to accept that they may be agents of harm, without a persistent external reminder that contradicts deeply rooted accountability blind spots. That reminder often manifests itself via a non's suffering. Our suffering triggers their shame. Shame repels them like a force field because it's reinforces many self-hating thoughts that they have about themselves. I believe that they they do possess empathetic feelings but cannot process them in a linear manner.  Instead, empathy is both felt and articulated by a pwBPD incoherently in my opinion. 

[laelle]

i think it's important to accept the totality of what was. specifically for the question ":)o they ever realize the harm that they do?"--sometimes they don't, sometimes they do. what i've learned about myself is that i simply have to trust my gut instinct on the matter. there were times when i felt wronged when i truly don't feel she meant it. at the same time there were times when i know that she was purposefully punishing. and accepting both as true is a good milestone for me to move forward.

knowing that some of my ex's behavior was meant to harm me doesn't get me stuck in victim mode. i think with distance it just shows me that i need to be careful not to put myself in the same position again (with her or anyone else).

the healing that i seek and self work that i'm doing doesn't require my xuBPD to be "nice" or for me to make excuses for her behavior. rather, i can see that her treatment of the situation was unfair, still knowing that in time that sometimes bad things happen to good people. and that i'm ok with this. i'm proud of myself thus far with how i've dealt with things, while keeping an eye on myself to ensure i make a full and detached recovery.

Well said!  Very wise words.

[Waifed]

They feel shame... .but it is erased from their minds shortly thereafter. I caught her cheating, she cried and apologized for 2 straight days. The second night she asked me to stop torturing her. A month later I asked her if she was still speaking to him. She said "Waifed, he lives overseas, we chat, what's the big deal". Sicko... .

[fromheeltoheal]

They feel shame... .but it is erased from their minds shortly thereafter.

I don't think it's erased, it's repressed, and the older they get the more and more shame is repressed, and if a borderline was to focus on it the floodgates would open and they COULD NOT live with themselves.  So on it goes to the shame pile, stacking up and then showing up in progressively more impulsive behavior, and oh boy, you don't want to be on the receiving end of that misdirected rage.  Paint a pretty picture don't I?

[Knowingishalf]

Wow, but so true, with endless stacking comes endless shame... .

[DragoN]

I read this story before, but today it brought me to tears. . .

I sent it to my husband years ago, he could not understand it. Later, I wasn't any better.   shaking as I type here.  This stuff really bothers me.  

sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.

Verbal abuse, it's worse.  :'(

Do they ever realize the harm they do ?

then on the other side of the coin, of course they realize the harm they do. when seeking revenge and punishing people, well the whole point of it is to cause harm. it doesn't seem like all people have experienced this level of retribution, although many (most?) have in some form. but yes i would say that my ex not only knew the harm she was doing but put every ounce of her soul into causing more pain. this is something they do over and over and seem to understand very well.

He knows exactly what he is doing. Admitted it.

They have no empathy so it is impossible for them to have genuine remorse, that would require them to be able to feel the pain of others and identify with it.

I think The so called “remorse” they feel is the guilt or pain of getting caught  or their fear of abandonment getting triggered.


Even in their most lucid moments, they do not possess empathy.

They have enough empathy to read our weakest points, and then hammer us into oblivion with them.  

I don't think it's erased, it's repressed, and the older they get the more and more shame is repressed, and if a borderline was to focus on it the floodgates would open and they COULD NOT live with themselves.  So on it goes to the shame pile, stacking up and then showing up in progressively more impulsive behavior, and oh boy, you don't want to be on the receiving end of that misdirected rage.  Paint a pretty picture don't I?

 yeah, remind me why I filed for divorce?

hope all those here will heal. Know, it wasn't you. We don't need to be "perfect" to be treated with common decency and respect.