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Author Topic: Why BPD Breakups end Badly  (Read 616 times)
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« on: December 16, 2013, 03:53:27 PM »

I was just thinking about something and it clicked.

Like a lightbulb going off above me  Idea

Whenever my ex dumped me I could not talk to her about it. It was my fault, she was done and wanted nothing to do with me.

It used to infuriate me because there was never a discussion things "weren't working" or we should talk about it, she just dumped me, over. Kaput. And when I asked of course it was all my fault.

This last time she actually came over and said we should "see other people". Maybe this wasn't a BPD thing, she just wanted out and to see other people. She was so calm about it. It was a week before my birthday and right before these lovely holidays, of course! It was after I questioned it (the reason for the breakup) she changed her number, FB and email and said she was gone from my life forever, that I betrayed her and she would never trust me again.

I still believe there is someone else but the fact that during that break up she told me we would be friends forever and she "loved me very much" to cutting me out so completely and coldly... .

That is what hurts so much. I truly believe I will never hear from her again... .which isn't a bad thing. I am just saddened how this all went down. I will never contact her myself though. Let sleeping dogs lie.
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 04:02:04 PM »

Earth Angel,

Ending badly... .you mean why does it hurt so much?

Simply, this is your core hurt that has been exposed.  This person opened up a part of you that you kept buried, now it is out there and exposed and you are feeling alone - it is scary and sad because your heart is broken.

You trusted her and your friends - and she left - of course it hurts.  This is normal for any breakup, not just BPD.

All of us here trusted our hearts and our core selves to someone who abused that privilege.  It is up to us to now heal that core hurt - the grief process is scary and hard, but we do get stronger.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 04:25:29 PM »

It sounds like Earth Angel's ex had a lack of sympathy/empathy when they broke up.

I can speak for my ex. After 8 years all that she said is "I'm done" Really? After all that we've been through that is all that you can say. That was it.

A break-up with two adults is usually something that you can both discuss/express your feelings about why the r/s is not working. Not leaving with someone under your wings and cutting them off.

Your doing good with let sleeping dogs lie. Find your own closure.





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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 02:39:57 AM »

Same thing here. He just stopped wanting to see me. Didn't even "dump" me, just said "I don't think we should talk so often". When I questioned him about it, he said he couldn't trust me, it was all my fault and refused to meet up to talk about it or even to make sure our friendship survived.

Very hard knowing that someone you love has so little respect for you.
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 02:53:41 AM »

Of course you're saddened with how it all went down. I think in such cases we need to find our own closure and reading as much as you can here and understanding BPD will help.  You can't rely on your ex to aid you here.

Mine rang a thug in the middle of the night and said, "It's time". She them turned to me and said, "you better get out of here before he gets here". It was not safe for me to stay in my home so I got the heck out of there, and fast, too. You got a lot more than I did so consider yourself lucky.

The trick now is to stop ruminating and get on with healing. The hard part for me right now is deciding which beach do I want to lie on for the next 2-3 weeks - one of the untouched white sandy beaches of Vietnam or one in Thailand? Decisions, decisions... .
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 07:18:22 AM »

Same thing here. He just stopped wanting to see me. Didn't even "dump" me, just said "I don't think we should talk so often". When I questioned him about it, he said he couldn't trust me, it was all my fault and refused to meet up to talk about it or even to make sure our friendship survived.

Very hard knowing that someone you love has so little respect for you.

I can say that I've been on both sides of the fence. I remember that I had had enough and we we're separated and met at a restaurant. I told her such, and told her I think it's time that she moved back home with her mom and her child and I move back to the home with my kids and I needed a real separation. I always left home and went to my sister's for a month or so.

That time and one other was the only time that I had elicited an emotional response. Tears were running down her face and she was emotionally upset. "You can't leave me". It looked genuine but it was her fear of abandonment being triggered, but they were crocodile tears.

When the shoe was on the other foot and she had found a replacement. She was cold, distant, frantically blaming me for her actions and simply left without compassion or remorse and a distortion campaign that was well underway for months. It felt like two opposites of the spectrum, but in either case, I was never in the equation.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 07:49:15 AM »

It used to infuriate me because there was never a discussion things "weren't working" or we should talk about it, she just dumped me, over. Kaput. And when I asked of course it was all my fault.

my w expressed unhappiness with the state of our marriage exactly once: in an email sent in the middle of the work day. and in it she blamed me. no talk of her own feelings and why. one month later she blew our marriage up by revealing her deceit and literally walking out and moving in with the other party.

she had found a replacement. She was cold, distant, frantically blaming me for her actions and simply left without compassion or remorse and a distortion campaign that was well underway for months. It felt like two opposites of the spectrum, but in either case, I was never in the equation.

ditto.

nor i'm guessing was your replacement in the equation, in any real sense. mine referred to her new thing as "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave it" (putatively to come back). nb: "what i have" and "leave it."
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 08:51:46 AM »

my w expressed unhappiness with the state of our marriage exactly once: in an email sent in the middle of the work day. and in it she blamed me. no talk of her own feelings and why. one month later she blew our marriage up by revealing her deceit and literally walking out and moving in with the other party.

Projection. Lack of sympathy/empathy.

My ex did the same. She moved out. Exposed the replacement to the kids a week after and the replacement moved in with her. It's my kids I'm the most worried about because they are small. Realistically, this is not the first and last new sheriff in town. I'll have to contend with more selfish men with my kids. IMO this replacement was not sympathetic to my kids emotional needs by moving in. He thought about himself only and did not give them space.

ditto.

nor i'm guessing was your replacement in the equation, in any real sense. mine referred to her new thing as "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave it" (putatively to come back). nb: "what i have" and "leave it."

I agree.  

Often her communique's with me by e-mail since separation include personal pronouns such as "we" and "our". The context sometimes is still as if she thought we were together  
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 11:43:40 AM »

Earth Angel,

Ending badly... .you mean why does it hurt so much?

Simply, this is your core hurt that has been exposed.  This person opened up a part of you that you kept buried, now it is out there and exposed and you are feeling alone - it is scary and sad because your heart is broken.


I don't think it is a core hurt in us exposed, in situations like this, a lot of us say that, but anyone, no matter who you are, if you love someone, and just one day out the blue, they basically dump you, and pretty much is saying and actions are showing you meant nothing to them, you are going to be speechless, and hurt.
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 01:28:27 PM »

Do you know why she couldn't talk to you about why she was leaving you? Because to do so would imply that she has the ability to self reflect. Someone with BPD has no self to self reflect on. So the entire time from the start of devaluation and continuing through to discard, she has to believe that it really is you to blame, that you are this hideous monster who has hurt her, etc to fit into the scripted loop that plays out in her distorted mind. To self reflect would have resulted in viewing herself as the culprit for the horrible behavior done to you, her self protection defense mechanisms cultivated since whenever her trauma occurred kick in and reflect that sh¥t back onto the person closest to them, you in this case. That way of thinking is alien to a non, we do not operate in such a destructive way. Why? Because we have a sense of self that we can fall back on and begin to self reflect on why something is happening. Trying to understand this disorder is like trying to draw diagrams outside with straws on a windy day. An exercise in futility. Hang in there Earth. It was no different with mine, there was no self reflection. Medusa banished me to a world of piss and sh¥t.  
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 01:59:05 PM »

All:

I think you all have it.  I have felt the exact same sense of reflection accompanied with the cold and lonely feeling of being discarded.  No matter who ended it, it always seems that we are simply gone in the expwBPD's mind.  Like we never existed.  Indeed, I think that that may be the reality as painful as that is to say.  If the pwBPD is unable to really attach, then this makes perfect sense.

The ex said she would "miss me" two days after we split up.  But it was hollow.  It was perfunctory rather than sincere.  Like she was saying it to someone she had just met.

This was definitely one of the hardest things to fathom.  I'm in real pain at the loss.  And she has no sense that anything is actually missing.  So sad for her, really.

D
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 06:50:05 PM »

Of course you're saddened with how it all went down. I think in such cases we need to find our own closure and reading as much as you can here and understanding BPD will help.  You can't rely on your ex to aid you here.

Mine rang a thug in the middle of the night and said, "It's time". She them turned to me and said, "you better get out of here before he gets here". It was not safe for me to stay in my home so I got the heck out of there, and fast, too. You got a lot more than I did so consider yourself lucky.

The trick now is to stop ruminating and get on with healing. The hard part for me right now is deciding which beach do I want to lie on for the next 2-3 weeks - one of the untouched white sandy beaches of Vietnam or one in Thailand? Decisions, decisions... .

My brow is so furrowed after reading that, its madness!, madness!
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 08:18:35 PM »

Earth Angel,

Ending badly... .you mean why does it hurt so much?

Simply, this is your core hurt that has been exposed.  This person opened up a part of you that you kept buried, now it is out there and exposed and you are feeling alone - it is scary and sad because your heart is broken.


I don't think it is a core hurt in us exposed, in situations like this, a lot of us say that, but anyone, no matter who you are, if you love someone, and just one day out the blue, they basically dump you, and pretty much is saying and actions are showing you meant nothing to them, you are going to be speechless, and hurt.

I was just going to write the same thing! With all due respect I really don't understand why everything has to be attributed to some psychological issue we already had.

This behavior would have been extremely hurtful to anyone.
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 08:30:42 PM »

I was just going to write the same thing! With all due respect I really don't understand why everything has to be attributed to some psychological issue we already had.

This behavior would have been extremely hurtful to anyone.

They don't just attach themselves to anyone.

A person with strong boundaries wouldn't of put up with their nonsense and dumped them.

What made us put up with it?

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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 09:09:09 PM »

Mutt,

   My T said the same thing.  She said, why do you think you put up with it?

And I said it was a fear of being alone.

To which she answered, But weren't you alone this entire relationship?

Something to chew on.
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:16:26 PM »

Mutt,

  My T said the same thing.  She said, why do you think you put up with it?

And I said it was a fear of being alone.

To which she answered, But weren't you alone this entire relationship?

Something to chew on.

I got dumped by an undiagnosed one. I had always thought I was staying in it for obligation.

I was going through the same patterns, push/pull and kept doing the same thing thinking that I would eventually get a different result.

Crazy-making behavior really.

Not until she was gone did I feel how enmeshed that I was with her. I'm no expert in normal r/s's but you should know where one person ends and the other begins.

I'd agree. I feared being alone.
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:30 PM »

I was just going to write the same thing! With all due respect I really don't understand why everything has to be attributed to some psychological issue we already had.

This behavior would have been extremely hurtful to anyone.

They don't just attach themselves to anyone.

A person with strong boundaries wouldn't of put up with their nonsense and dumped them.

What made us put up with it?

I guess I just don't think it is as simple as that. It seems I may be in the minority here. I think I have strong boundaries but for various reasons they became loosened before I realized it. I think something happens to your mind in that you slowly become conditioned to the behaviors. Now that I'm out I don't think it's normal or would ever put up with it. I think I really believed it was fixable because there were so many times he was so normal and loving.

In my opinion I don't think that's true that they don't just attach to anyone. (Most nons aren't attracted to everyone either) My ex could probably throw a rock and find someone willing to be in a relationship with him. He comes across as the perfect guy... .until he's not then you are in deep.

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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 09:34:41 PM »

I guess I just don't think it is as simple as that.

I agree.

Idealization in the very first stages of these relationships comes to mind.

I'm only speaking from my experience.

What made me fall for that? Being worshiped and put on a pedestal is something that I can clearly see now is not normal. I loved it at the time and didn't see anything wrong with it.

She reached into that lonely boy inside from childhood.

Again, that's just me.
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2013, 09:43:16 PM »

I guess I just don't think it is as simple as that.

I agree.

Idealization comes to mind.

I'm only speaking from my experience.

What made me fall for that? Being worshiped and put on a pedestal is something that I can clearly see now is not normal.

Why did I fall for it?

She reached into that lonely boy inside from childhood.

Again, that's just me.

Yes in retrospect we can now see the idealization for what it is. Hindsight right!

But... .I think a lot of people are hard pressed not knowing about idealization to pass up someone that is so into you and would do anything for you. We all want to be loved. That is not disordered. In fact the contrary. I have seen healthy longterm relationships where people feel this way about each other. I think we are being too hard on ourselves.

In my opinion I just got stung! Bad! Now I know to stay away from bees and know what they look like and what they sound like.

My feeling is that unless you really think you have deep issues ( which I think is fine if you have to work on them). But I sometimes worry we are making ourselves sick by thinking there is something inherently wrong with us. No one is perfect!

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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2013, 09:51:35 PM »

I guess I just don't think it is as simple as that.

I agree.

Idealization comes to mind.

I'm only speaking from my experience.

What made me fall for that? Being worshiped and put on a pedestal is something that I can clearly see now is not normal.

Why did I fall for it?

She reached into that lonely boy inside from childhood.

Again, that's just me.

Yes in retrospect we can now see the idealization for what it is. Hindsight right!

But... .I think a lot of people are hard pressed not knowing about idealization to pass up someone that is so into you and would do anything for you. We all want to be loved. That is not disordered. In fact the contrary. I have seen healthy longterm relationships where people feel this way about each other. I think we are being too hard on ourselves.

In my opinion I just got stung! Bad! Now I know to stay away from bees and know what they look like and what they sound like.

My feeling is that unless you really think you have deep issues ( which I think is fine if you have to work on them). But I sometimes worry we are making ourselves sicker by thinking there is something inherently wrong with us. No one is perfect!

Here's one theory I have about accepting idealization.

First of all I never even knew there was something called idealization until I researched his behaviors and came across info.  I come from a place of honesty so it never even dawns on me that someone would do this to someone.

I also think that accepting that someone would feel this way about you is actually a healthy esteem thing. I believed that I had so much love to give and that I am a really good person and have a lot to offer so when someone recognized this ( I thought) it didn't raise red flags for me. I was able to buy it. I still feel that way and it's one reason I am having a hard time with this. Among other things the time wasted and how I thought he felt about me wasn't even real. It's a real mind bender.
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2013, 09:59:23 PM »

My feeling is that unless you really think you have deep issues ( which I think is fine if you have to work on them). But I sometimes worry we are making ourselves sicker by thinking there is something inherently wrong with us. No one is perfect!

I wasn't getting love from my partner. It was a one-way street.

I don't think I'm making myself sick.

I think of this as taking a serious look at myself and finally putting some of my issues to rest.  

I'm damned if I'm going to go through this again. I'm getting too old for this stuff.

I want change.
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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2013, 10:11:30 PM »

My feeling is that unless you really think you have deep issues ( which I think is fine if you have to work on them). But I sometimes worry we are making ourselves sicker by thinking there is something inherently wrong with us. No one is perfect!

I wasn't getting love from my partner. It was a one-way street.

I don't think I'm making myself sick.

I think of this as taking a serious look at myself and finally putting some of my issues to rest.  

I'm damned if I'm going to go through this again. I'm getting too old for this stuff.

I want change.

Don't get me wrong I think it is good to look at yourself so as not to get in this mess again. I am doing the same. But I think there is a difference between not being healthy and just becoming self aware.

I guess I have been responding to another thread where some have made statements that we just cannot possibly be healthy to have been in a BPD relationship.

My response about making ourselves sick is more about really understanding what really happened and not blaming ourselves where there is no blame or attributing some psychological defect where there is none. I think that is just a self fulfilling prophesy.
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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2013, 10:14:51 PM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2013, 07:23:49 AM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?

Mutt,

That IS the million dollar question!

I think that as many people have different reasons for developing BPD., there are probably just as many reasons for the Nons too. 

Some of us were vulnerable when we met.  Basically healthy, but vulnerable.   Then the BPD took us somewhere down the rabbit hole.  Others had genuine issues that fit the BPD.  This has been discussed in other threads.  Apparently someone with NPD is likely to match up with BPD.  Others still might be completely healthy, and the pwBPD was extremely skillful at their illness.  I think there must be a spectrum of the Nons "health". 

For myself, I was vulnerable but basically healthy.   A bad combo with one of the most skillful pwBPD that I've even read about.  She is smart!   Even with her bipolar and BPD.  Exquisitely skillful at manipulation!

Just my thoughts!   What do you think of this idea?

D
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2013, 07:51:16 AM »

I don't think I was healthy when I met my ex. I am inherently healthier than my ex but I am insecure and hadn't dated for seven years... .plus this was my first same sex relationship.

Because of that I was very vulnerable and clung to her like a life preserver... .

until she snapped at me one day (very irrational over a really stupid thing) and my gut instinct told me something was not right  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)

I kept staying hoping things would get better but they never did. Each recycle we were ok but never back to what we were. After the third time she blocked my number after a trivial argument I started to take care of myself. I could not rely on this person for anything. If I was sad and needed support she took it as rejection and dumped me. It was truly a one sided relationship. I think in my mind, being a fixer/caregiver I tried to cover that up but really when you think about it, nothing was ever about me or my feelings at all.

I was in a "relationship" yet very alone.

One of my ex's parting shots at me was that I "never really knew her". I sat and thought about that recently. She was RIGHT. She mimiced all my interests. All she talked about were her exes. I didn't know her... .she really didn't have an identity, just clung to mine til she found a new one to attach to, sort of like those "sucker fish" in fish tanks. You know the ones, the bottom feeders.

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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2013, 09:31:23 AM »

The break-up with my ex was actually probably relatively low-drama and respectful, but that's what made it seem so surreal to me. For 8 months we spent 5+ days a week hanging out and I practically adopted her daughter early on. I was the same guy from beginning to end. Things seemed to be going well leading up to our wedding shower. Then a few days later she's going out with a co-worker. Just about 3 weeks before the wedding she starts having panic attacks and we postponed the wedding. Also withdrawing affection and wanting time alone to herself. Within just a few weeks it all ended very abruptly and didn't seem to warrant much more than an Ooops! on her part. I realize now it was for the best that it didn't work out. What's most telling is how she and her family completely disappeared, mostly just ignored me or went off on me after we had broken up. It's definitely not normal that someone who you'd think had good intentions and practically lets you become a part of their family can't even maintain some friendly contact or have an adult discussion. But of course, we never really did in our relationship. It was all good while we were engaged and planning the wedding, etc., but when the real world starting knocking on the door that was when it hit the fan.

I'm very compassionate, and I was also vulnerable when I met mine and really was looking for a relationship and lacked actual relationship experience. I was also a little naive. As I'm getting over the heartbreak, I'm moving slower and going a little easier on myself. I would like a great, long-term relationship someday. It's just going to take a little more work with me and getting comfortable with intimacy and learning boundaries. I think romance is a little over-rated, and maturity and commitment isn't valued enough. I don't believe as much in soulmates as I used to. I do believe that peaceful, lasting love is what I'm looking for.
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2013, 09:48:42 AM »

Finding Myself,

I hadn't dated a lot either and this experience both with a woman and a woman with BPD was all new to me.

You can't blame yourself though.

The women I have met during and after this ordeal, people I can truly call friends told me this is not what they would have done to someone and their "first experience". They would have been patient and loving.

Mine wanted a partner from the get go and to move in. While I was having doubts regarding my sexuality she would pull away and tell me I was going to end up with a man. I could never trust or confide in this person, ever. They never were there for me and in turn I grew distant. I could count on no one... .but myself.

So don't beat yourself up for not having more relationship experience. Someone who is emotionally available and secure would have guided and loved you unconditionally. You would have never been treated so badly.

I am sorry you are going through this. What you need to try to do is make this a learning experience. For me, it is hard. This was 13mo of my life, but when you read the boards it could have been 15yrs! Could you imagine, 15yrs and then they left?

I don't know how old you are but I am 38. I would like to maybe have a baby someday. Because of this I am grateful she cut me loose... .ironically for another woman who wants a baby too... .

(my ex mirrored me and then when dumping me told me I needed to find a 25yo to have a baby with-nice)!

So I look at this as a gift to possibly have what I really want. You have to sometimes let go with love even though they have been awful to you.

You have the emotional/rational capacity, they don't.

Don't stop loving! Now you have the "signs". Keep trusting and loving.

I know it will get better for you.
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2013, 10:17:21 AM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?

Mutt,

That IS the million dollar question!

I think that as many people have different reasons for developing BPD., there are probably just as many reasons for the Nons too.  

Some of us were vulnerable when we met.  Basically healthy, but vulnerable.   Then the BPD took us somewhere down the rabbit hole.  Others had genuine issues that fit the BPD.  This has been discussed in other threads.  Apparently someone with NPD is likely to match up with BPD.  Others still might be completely healthy, and the pwBPD was extremely skillful at their illness.  I think there must be a spectrum of the Nons "health".  

For myself, I was vulnerable but basically healthy.   A bad combo with one of the most skillful pwBPD that I've even read about.  She is smart!   Even with her bipolar and BPD.  Exquisitely skillful at manipulation!

Just my thoughts!   What do you think of this idea?

D

She was skillfull at her illness, at least in the beggining. But it showed through the cracks and I chose to go against my intuition.

In the very beggining I was supposed to meet her and I chose to go to the bar with my bestfriend and his new girlfriend at the time. I get a call from her and she is raging on the phone. My intuition told me there is something really wrong here. She kept calling after that conversation!

I can throw depression, loneliness, not having a lot of relationships, wanting a LTR, wanting to settle down and have kids into the mix. Everything doesn't have to be black and white, but I would say that's more in the gray area and they certainly weren't core issues. It was simply a need and I chose to ignore the red flags to fulfill those needs.

Biggest mistake that I made in my life is ignoring my intuition and I don't want to make the same mistakes... I hear someone telling me story to gain sympathy, I automatically think "this person is bad news" and want nothing to do with them. Eject!

I think the painful parts of these break ups is thinking that things will get better when you were with them. Why did I think this? The lack of sympathy, empathy, the sudden break-up with little to no effort at an explanation as to why, the pretzel logic, gaslighting, things getting twisted around that you are the abusive one that cannot understand their needs. Mine simply threw everything on me and refuses to see the pain and hurt she puts on others, and acted as if she was "liberated from an abusive man, finally!"  Blatantly destroying a family and not being able to empathise the kids feelings/needs for new shiny object.

She cannot see me for the man that I am with good qualities, not someone with bad qualities that quantifies me as a whole. She can't see the gray. That's the most hurtful part for me. I'm not this person that is in her reality that she paints to her sycophants.

I'm someone completely different.


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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2013, 12:00:28 PM »

Excerpt
The lack of sympathy, empathy, the sudden break-up with little to no effort at an explanation as to why, the pretzel logic, gaslighting, things getting twisted around that you are the abusive one that cannot understand their needs. Mine simply threw everything on me and refuses to see the pain and hurt she puts on others, and acted as if she was "liberated from an abusive man, finally!"  Blatantly destroying a family and not being able to empathise the kids feelings/needs for new shiny object.

Mutt,

This part of your story is exactly what I was told as well.  In fact, I have texts that quote the "liberated from an abusive man, finally" almost verbatim!

And I share the hurt you feel when we are thought of as abusers and failures when in fact, the opposite is true.   

Thus, I choose to be what I am:  A caring, successful, not-perfect, trusting, and loving individual who is willing to work hard at a relationship.  And what I've learned from the past 8 years is that I will be more diligent with my feelings and with the actions of the other.   I will not repeat this mistake ever again.

D
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »

EarthAngel,

Thank you for the hugs. Sometimes I do get down emotionally though its' been a long time... .especially when work is stressful, holidays, etc. But I've definitely learned a lot. I understand what led to my old patterns and my fear of getting close. I've had a few short-term relationships since then, and only one was probably with someone who wasn't emotionally healthy. It's just a matter of finding someone with enough chemistry who is healthy, and now I'm in the right place. I'm still a little fearful but it's just what was there before the pwBPD. It's up to me to take my time and get comfortable within a healthy relationship. I'm in a much better place than I was even a few months ago.
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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2013, 12:53:54 PM »

[/quote]
I also think that accepting that someone would feel this way about you is actually a healthy esteem thing. I believed that I had so much love to give and that I am a really good person and have a lot to offer so when someone recognized this ( I thought) it didn't raise red flags for me. I was able to buy it. I still feel that way and it's one reason I am having a hard time with this. Among other things the time wasted and how I thought he felt about me wasn't even real. [/quote]
I agree. There was a small part of me that thought he was over the top at times, but he was SO convincing, and I thought, ya know what... .I deserve someone who thinks I am the most wonderful, prettiest girl in the world, so I went with it. I believed him because HE believed him. In contrast, I dated another guy a while back who had many similar characteristics, (though I suspect more NPD) including the idealization bit, but I could sense the bull___ with him. It seemed like an act, whereas with my exBPD, he truly seemed to believe the words that were coming out of his mouth, and so I did too.

It is baffling that they can just walk away after all of it, so seemingly unscathed... .
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« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 01:00:55 PM »

Finding,

    Again, please do not beat yourself up.  So you pulled away, this was new to you. We all do it at times. It's not your fault.

You are a beautiful, loving person. Do not lose faith or confidence in yourself because of this. I know holidays are hard. I am going out for a little holiday celebration with friends tonight. Be happy, have fun... .someone awesome and deserving of FindingMyselfAgain WILL come along, I am 100% confident in that.

Earth 
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2013, 01:03:03 PM »

Aw,

  Try not to think of this as time wasted. Think of it as an education... .you now have a certificate in this.

I know that is not what you wanted but you have learned some valuable lessons, haven't you? This was a gift. A gift that will propel you into a better, healthier relationship eventually.

Earth 
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2013, 01:04:58 PM »

This part of your story is exactly what I was told as well.  In fact, I have texts that quote the "liberated from an abusive man, finally" almost verbatim!

And I share the hurt you feel when we are thought of as abusers and failures when in fact, the opposite is true.  

Thus, I choose to be what I am:  A caring, successful, not-perfect, trusting, and loving individual who is willing to work hard at a relationship.  And what I've learned from the past 8 years is that I will be more diligent with my feelings and with the actions of the other.   I will not repeat this mistake ever again.

D

Hi TakingWingAtLast,

What she perceives/distorts as "abuse" is the fact that I stopped enabling her. I had put my foot down on certain issues and I didn't budge. Crazy doesn't want help or to be rescued. Crazy wants to be enabled! Those same boundaries were also distorted as control. I'm not sure about you, but my problems with her kicked into high gear when I stopped stooping to her level and set boundaries. Bad went to worse.

I'll never forget that conversation I had with her outside of her place 3 weeks after she left. I didn't know about PD then and I was gobsmacked by what came out of her mouth. I walked away stunned/hurt.

Verbatim "Me and the replacement we're just friends. Now we sleep together so we're boyfriend/girlfriend"  "I'm not moving in with replacement or anyone for a longtime, he's just a friend" "I feel amazing! My friends told me you did it! You got out!"

Everything that she said was the complete opposite. She had an emotional/physical affair for a year before moving out with replacement. Replacement slept over a week after almost every night and would leave for work and come back from work and stay there. He still had a house. It's shoving this guy down everyone's throats and especially on my kids that's toughest. They live with her. He's not the first replacement that I will have to deal with and not to mention the fall-out that I will have help the kids with in the future. I have to be the one that's there for the kids. She doesn't have the capacity to help others, only herself.

That same day she told the kids in front of me "mom and dad are divorced now" Um no? We've been separated 3 weeks! Your distorting the kids to excuse the behavior of having another man in the house in front of the kids?

I emulate with your sympathy. The r/s are about the length of time. I'm not sure about you. I was a decent man when I came into the r/s and my limits and sanity were tested to the limit. The gaslighting/projection/pretzel logic ... .almost had me convinced that I was really the problem. There was something always keeping me anchored in reality. I can also empathise with you when you say you'll never make this mistake again. This woman nearly broke my psyche as a sane man. Thank god a family member hinted at BPD. I never want to revisit that place again.
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2013, 01:10:53 PM »

Aw,

  Try not to think of this as time wasted. Think of it as an education... .you now have a certificate in this.

I know that is not what you wanted but you have learned some valuable lessons, haven't you? This was a gift. A gift that will propel you into a better, healthier relationship eventually.

Earth 

Smiling (click to insert in post) It is so true! Grateful for the lesson, but I can't help but shake my fists at the sky and say REALLY? ANOTHER LESSON? I THINK I'VE HAD QUITE ENOUGH AT THIS POINT!
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2013, 01:51:44 PM »

This part of your story is exactly what I was told as well.  In fact, I have texts that quote the "liberated from an abusive man, finally" almost verbatim!

And I share the hurt you feel when we are thought of as abusers and failures when in fact, the opposite is true.  

Thus, I choose to be what I am:  A caring, successful, not-perfect, trusting, and loving individual who is willing to work hard at a relationship.  And what I've learned from the past 8 years is that I will be more diligent with my feelings and with the actions of the other.   I will not repeat this mistake ever again.

D

Hi TakingWingAtLast,

What she perceives/distorts as "abuse" is the fact that I stopped enabling her. I had put my foot down on certain issues and I didn't budge. Crazy doesn't want help or to be rescued. Crazy wants to be enabled! Those same boundaries were also distorted as control. I'm not sure about you, but my problems with her kicked into high gear when I stopped stooping to her level and set boundaries. Bad went to worse.

I'll never forget that conversation I had with her outside of her place 3 weeks after she left. I didn't know about PD then and I was gobsmacked by what came out of her mouth. I walked away stunned/hurt.

Verbatim "Me and the replacement we're just friends. Now we sleep together so we're boyfriend/girlfriend"  "I'm not moving in with replacement or anyone for a longtime, he's just a friend" "I feel amazing! My friends told me you did it! You got out!"

Everything that she said was the complete opposite. She had an emotional/physical affair for a year before moving out with replacement. Replacement slept over a week after almost every night and would leave for work and come back from work and stay there. He still had a house. It's shoving this guy down everyone's throats and especially on my kids that's toughest. They live with her. He's not the first replacement that I will have to deal with and not to mention the fall-out that I will have help the kids with in the future. I have to be the one that's there for the kids. She doesn't have the capacity to help others, only herself.

That same day she told the kids in front of me "mom and dad are divorced now" Um no? We've been separated 3 weeks! Your distorting the kids to excuse the behavior of having another man in the house in front of the kids?

I emulate with your sympathy. The r/s are about the length of time. I'm not sure about you. I was a decent man when I came into the r/s and my limits and sanity were tested to the limit. The gaslighting/projection/pretzel logic ... .almost had me convinced that I was really the problem. There was something always keeping me anchored in reality. I can also empathise with you when you say you'll never make this mistake again. This woman nearly broke my psyche as a sane man. Thank god a family member hinted at BPD. I never want to revisit that place again.

Mutt,

Yes, I noticed the similar length in time.  

My limits and sanity were absolutely tested.  I never allowed her to cross boundaries.  I would politely ask, then more firmly ask, then get louder as I fought for my boundaries. Rarely did anything of this work, so I would eventually take a walk or drive, or leave for the night to maintain my boundaries.   Now I understand that for her, it made the fear of abandonment worse.  As time went on, this was the paradigm that worsened over time.  We discussed this breech of boundary crossing ad nauseum at every therapy session we ever had.  NOTHING ever changed.   I hated our therapy sessions because there was never any resolution.  I almost always left madder than I was when I entered.   NOW, I know it's because the expwBPD always started the session first, blamed me for whatever, then the rest was about terrible ol' me.  We went for years in therapy, that's how much I tried to make this work.   Had I have known about BPD, then I might have been able to change what I was doing.  

I'm getting all worked up just writing this... . Blood pressure up!  Heart rate, UP!   Eyes dilated.   Leg is shaking.   Can you spell adrenaline?  

May have to go run and work it off!

D
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2013, 02:15:21 PM »

Mutt,

Yes, I noticed the similar length in time.  

My limits and sanity were absolutely tested.  I never allowed her to cross boundaries.  I would politely ask, then more firmly ask, then get louder as I fought for my boundaries. Rarely did anything of this work, so I would eventually take a walk or drive, or leave for the night to maintain my boundaries.   Now I understand that for her, it made the fear of abandonment worse.  As time went on, this was the paradigm that worsened over time.  We discussed this breech of boundary crossing ad nauseum at every therapy session we ever had.  NOTHING ever changed.   I hated our therapy sessions because there was never any resolution.  I almost always left madder than I was when I entered.   NOW, I know it's because the expwBPD always started the session first, blamed me for whatever, then the rest was about terrible ol' me.  We went for years in therapy, that's how much I tried to make this work.   Had I have known about BPD, then I might have been able to change what I was doing.  

I'm getting all worked up just writing this... . Blood pressure up!  Heart rate, UP!   Eyes dilated.   Leg is shaking.   Can you spell adrenaline?  

May have to go run and work it off!

D

Oy. Marriage Counseling. Couple's Therapy.

I know this one all too well. It was like entering The Twilight Zone for 60 minutes.

She spent her time winning the counselor's over.

She was saying things that had never happened or weren't real. I looked like the husband that "couldn't get it" because I couldn't understand what she was talking about. I was frustrated and on one occasion the Therapist was taking her side but he didn't know what the pre-text was and the pent up frustration and I looked like the bad guy again, because I was losing my temper. I had told him as much, I was done with her winning over counselor's and using them as a proxy or taking her side.

I took control in one session. I dilligently wrote out all of the issues with the marriage and the issues I had with my spouse. I purposely lead the session and wasn't going to get swayed into her nonsense again. She stormed out the first 10 minutes and session over.

Marriage counselling never worked. Not one person had picked up on the black/white thinking. They're professionals. I lived with this 24/7. Counselling and Therapy works, but it doesn't in these cases. She would pout and be angry if the session went particularly well and what she perceived as the Therapist agreeing with me.

I didn't walk away enough during her rages/tantrums. If I did, it was endless calls to my cell. When are you coming back. One episode I will never forget. She was especially prickly and agressive that night. I said "I've had enough!, I'm going to my sister's and staying there!" This was in the kitchen. She had gone upstairs and was on the landing. In a calm, collected disposition she said in a sweet, quiet voice "Please don't go." She had snapped out of rage-mode into a normal demeanor in seconds. I was still worked up and left for my sister's. I couldn't believe the change.

Thanks for sharing TakingWingAtLast .

There is a beggining to these r/s and you go through the motions until it's scripted end.
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2013, 09:17:37 PM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?

Mutt,

That IS the million dollar question!

I think that as many people have different reasons for developing BPD., there are probably just as many reasons for the Nons too.  

Some of us were vulnerable when we met.  Basically healthy, but vulnerable.   Then the BPD took us somewhere down the rabbit hole.  Others had genuine issues that fit the BPD.  This has been discussed in other threads.  Apparently someone with NPD is likely to match up with BPD.  Others still might be completely healthy, and the pwBPD was extremely skillful at their illness.  I think there must be a spectrum of the Nons "health".  

For myself, I was vulnerable but basically healthy.   A bad combo with one of the most skillful pwBPD that I've even read about.  She is smart!   Even with her bipolar and BPD.  Exquisitely skillful at manipulation!

Just my thoughts!   What do you think of this idea?

D

She was skillfull at her illness, at least in the beggining. But it showed through the cracks and I chose to go against my intuition.

In the very beggining I was supposed to meet her and I chose to go to the bar with my bestfriend and his new girlfriend at the time. I get a call from her and she is raging on the phone. My intuition told me there is something really wrong here. She kept calling after that conversation!

I can throw depression, loneliness, not having a lot of relationships, wanting a LTR, wanting to settle down and have kids into the mix. Everything doesn't have to be black and white, but I would say that's more in the gray area and they certainly weren't core issues. It was simply a need and I chose to ignore the red flags to fulfill those needs.

Biggest mistake that I made in my life is ignoring my intuition and I don't want to make the same mistakes... I hear someone telling me story to gain sympathy, I automatically think "this person is bad news" and want nothing to do with them. Eject!



I think the painful parts of these break ups is thinking that things will get better when you were with them. Why did I think this? The lack of sympathy, empathy, the sudden break-up with little to no effort at an explanation as to why, the pretzel logic, gaslighting, things getting twisted around that you are the abusive one that cannot understand their needs. Mine simply threw everything on me and refuses to see the pain and hurt she puts on others, and acted as if she was "liberated from an abusive man, finally!"  Blatantly destroying a family and not being able to empathise the kids feelings/needs for new shiny object.

She cannot see me for the man that I am with good qualities, not someone with bad qualities that quantifies me as a whole. She can't see the gray. That's the most hurtful part for me. I'm not this person that is in her reality that she paints to her sycophants.

I'm someone completely different.

See your already on your way to learning from mistakes. Most people fall for the sympathy card but not us anymore! Right!
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 09:19:28 PM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?

Definitely no offense! I just wanted to be clear that I'm not saying I don't have things to learn and am definitely analyzing my decisions regarding relationships.
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2013, 11:20:08 PM »

See your already on your way to learning from mistakes. Most people fall for the sympathy card but not us anymore! Right!

High five! It's something to be proud about. I suprised myself when my new spidey-senses kicked in right away!
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« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2013, 08:50:04 AM »

See your already on your way to learning from mistakes. Most people fall for the sympathy card but not us anymore! Right!

High five! It's something to be proud about. I suprised myself when my new spidey-senses kicked in right away!

That's awesome! Good for you mutt! High five back at ya!

Walking away from someone who has problems does not make us a bad person it makes us self aware of the dangers. There is a time to help someone and a time to be self protective. Learning the difference is important for us.

I think we'll be ok! We're taking the time and effort putting in the work on ourselves and understanding what happened unlike some people. Definitely something to be proud of.
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« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2013, 09:07:59 AM »

I'm not taking offense. I hope that your are not as well.

It was a toxic relationship.

What makes you attracted to a toxic person?

Mutt,

That IS the million dollar question!

I think that as many people have different reasons for developing BPD., there are probably just as many reasons for the Nons too. 

Some of us were vulnerable when we met.  Basically healthy, but vulnerable.   Then the BPD took us somewhere down the rabbit hole.  Others had genuine issues that fit the BPD.  This has been discussed in other threads.  Apparently someone with NPD is likely to match up with BPD.  Others still might be completely healthy, and the pwBPD was extremely skillful at their illness.  I think there must be a spectrum of the Nons "health". 

For myself, I was vulnerable but basically healthy.   A bad combo with one of the most skillful pwBPD that I've even read about.  She is smart!   Even with her bipolar and BPD.  Exquisitely skillful at manipulation!

Just my thoughts!   What do you think of this idea?

D

I believe this sums up pretty concisely what I believe happened to me in bold. Mine was also very skilled and practiced in the manipulation and as it turns out very deceitful.

I also concur with the vulnerability. I think for me this was a key issue. Being vulnerable isn't a defect or a state of up healthiness though.

I liken it to if someone car jacked me at the mall when someone comes up to talk to me and I was trusting they were just a normal person asking a question. Is it my fault that they did this? No! Was I vulnerable. Yes. I was distracted holding packages, maybe other things on my mind and should haven been more vigilant but it's hard for me to grasp that someone would even do this! I'm just going about my daily life needing to shop. Does this make me wrong for being there. Of course not. Will it make me more aware in the future and maybe stay away from the mall or get in my car right away and not dawdle? Absolutely!

Did I NEED to learn from this situation in order to have a better life? No. Most people never have to learn this lesson. But it did happen and there is nothing I can do but try to be more carefull and deal with my emotional recovery.

May not be a perfect analogy but you get the idea.
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« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2013, 09:14:05 AM »

May not be a perfect analogy but you get the idea.

You articulated very well.   
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2013, 05:23:34 AM »

Oy. Marriage Counseling. Couple's Therapy.

I know this one all too well. It was like entering The Twilight Zone for 60 minutes.

She spent her time winning the counselor's over.

She was saying things that had never happened or weren't real. I looked like the husband that "couldn't get it" because I couldn't understand what she was talking about. I was frustrated and on one occasion the Therapist was taking her side but he didn't know what the pre-text was and the pent up frustration and I looked like the bad guy again, because I was losing my temper. I had told him as much, I was done with her winning over counselor's and using them as a proxy or taking her side.

I took control in one session. I dilligently wrote out all of the issues with the marriage and the issues I had with my spouse. I purposely lead the session and wasn't going to get swayed into her nonsense again. She stormed out the first 10 minutes and session over.

Marriage counselling never worked. Not one person had picked up on the black/white thinking. They're professionals. I lived with this 24/7. Counselling and Therapy works, but it doesn't in these cases. She would pout and be angry if the session went particularly well and what she perceived as the Therapist agreeing with me.

I didn't walk away enough during her rages/tantrums. If I did, it was endless calls to my cell. When are you coming back. One episode I will never forget. She was especially prickly and agressive that night. I said "I've had enough!, I'm going to my sister's and staying there!" This was in the kitchen. She had gone upstairs and was on the landing. In a calm, collected disposition she said in a sweet, quiet voice "Please don't go." She had snapped out of rage-mode into a normal demeanor in seconds. I was still worked up and left for my sister's. I couldn't believe the change.

Thanks for sharing TakingWingAtLast .

There is a beggining to these r/s and you go through the motions until it's scripted end.

WOW, Mutt!  That is EXACTLY what happened to me!   I had to get away!  30+ times in 5 years.  9 police calls, 5 times where I was gone for more than two weeks.    The suicide call brought me back every time... .

D
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TakingWingAtLast
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Relationship status: Moved out for good on Nov. 16, 2013.
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« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2013, 05:28:24 AM »

I liken it to if someone car jacked me at the mall when someone comes up to talk to me and I was trusting they were just a normal person asking a question. Is it my fault that they did this? No! Was I vulnerable. Yes. I was distracted holding packages, maybe other things on my mind and should haven been more vigilant but it's hard for me to grasp that someone would even do this! I'm just going about my daily life needing to shop. Does this make me wrong for being there. Of course not. Will it make me more aware in the future and maybe stay away from the mall or get in my car right away and not dawdle? Absolutely!

Iwalk-Heruns,

I love this analogy.  Well said.  And I agree that happened to me as well.

D
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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2013, 11:28:55 AM »

WOW, Mutt!  That is EXACTLY what happened to me!   I had to get away!  30+ times in 5 years.  9 police calls, 5 times where I was gone for more than two weeks.    The suicide call brought me back every time... .

D

I hear stories here so much worse than mine.

The night that I described above where she rubber banded from intense anger to sweetness was the day before I was going to court.

I was charged for assault when she had attacked me. I wasn't hauled down to the police station or anything.

I've had threats of her calling the police often after the break-up and once they called me on my phone.

The police threats as far an intimidation tactic as far as concerned. If I call her on her behavior I get called crazy, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)'s, lmao's, blamed, projected, lying and sometimes threats that she'll call the police. That call came when I had confronted her on her affair. The affair is huge point of contemptment with her. It's taboo and I will get backlash if it's brought up.

In a nutshell, she's controlling and suppresses the truth by any means, or at least the way that I see. She doesn't want to hear the truth and wants me as far away as possible from her.

Her suicide threats seem different than what I've read on this board. She only mentioned that twice to me. "Mutt, I have dreams and sometimes and I just want to kill myself, I can't stand this place"

Both times iirc, was when I was trying to reason with her when she was trying to distort everything and project. So not so much because I had left the home and stayed with family. There were no actual attempts or ambulance calls, it seemed more like a cry for help. It's all confusing.
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