BPD and lies

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi - a question to those with more experience dealing with BPDs: Is there any point in confronting them about their lies, or is this a pointless exercise? I am trying to have a "normal" relationship with my exBPDGF, or at least something that comes close to it, but I have quite a bit of resentment about her lying to me about her contacts with her ex, which I know are not as benign or infrequent as she tells me - I also feel cheated as I have finally come to realize that this was the case while I was with her. In a word, I know she lies/lied to me but when I've confronted her about it, it's clear she has no issue with taking me for an idiot and telling me whatever she feels it is I want to hear and act offended if I suggest she is lying. Any tips?  Thanks.

[unsure2009]

Hi - a question to those with more experience dealing with BPDs: Is there any point in confronting them about their lies, or is this a pointless exercise? I am trying to have a "normal" relationship with my exBPDGF, or at least something that comes close to it, but I have quite a bit of resentment about her lying to me about her contacts with her ex, which I know are not as benign or infrequent as she tells me - I also feel cheated as I have finally come to realize that this was the case while I was with her. In a word, I know she lies/lied to me but when I've confronted her about it, it's clear she has no issue with taking me for an idiot and telling me whatever she feels it is I want to hear and act offended if I suggest she is lying. Any tips?  Thanks.

[DragoN]

Unless you have physical PROOF of her lies... .and even then, that won't help you.

However, if you really want to watch her dance and lie at the same time.

Show her the physical proof of her lying, while recording her response.  Wait a few months and repeat... .then you can compare the TWO sets of lies covering up the first ones.

I am trying to have a "normal" relationship with my exBPDGF

If she's an EX... .why have any contact at all?

Friends that LIE to me... .are not 'friends' in any sense of the word. Better off with enemies... .minimum you can expect to be stabbed in the back.

[Wanda]

 

WEll you came to the right place we usually ask your first post so we can get to know more about you

be posted on the newbi board, so when you get time can you please do that?




Insert Quote

Hi - a question to those with more experience dealing with BPDs: Is there any point in confronting them about their lies, or is this a pointless exercise





  BPs don't think they are lying to them what they say is the truth and to confront them with their lies would just cause a round and round argument, there is alot to learn on here boards to vist and resources to read on the workshop area there is alot of resourse the more you read the more you will understand. i am on the staying board been married 11 years and dated three years prior i have known about his BPD the time we have been married there are things you can do to make things easer, you have to learn acceptance and understanding they see things differntly then we do... hope this helps some    wanda

[Jos]

Wanda, I salute you!

My experience has shown me that Borderliner lies for two reasons: to protect their friends from feeling pain, but as well, to prevent themselves from feeling pain, that's all, because to appear "normal" feels better than to appear as a freak of nature, which is the way much of the world sees a Borderliner, and that's not true at all. It is quite possible to co-exist effectively, but you have to have the right personality in the first place. Like college used to be, it simply is not for everyone.

jos

[PotentiallyKevin]

I have caught her in so many lies. I mean dead proof that she has lied to me. I thought that would make her see if for what it was. The only thing this accomplished was either A) raging at me for catching her in a lie or B) blaming the whole lie on me and if I hadn't such and such then she wouldn't have ever had to lie to me in the first place.

[Casandra23]

I'm convinced that mine actually believed his lies.  A lie told often enough seems to be real then.  They deny and lie - it's a sad shame because it hinders real closeness. Of all the things I've heard about BPDs, lying seems to be the most common amongst the majority of them.  It's what young children do often... so

[Jos]

I'm convinced that mine actually believed his lies.  A lie told often enough seems to be real then.  They deny and lie - it's a sad shame because it hinders real closeness. Of all the things I've heard about BPDs, lying seems to be the most common amongst the majority of them.  It's what young children do often... so

Yep. This happens too, called distorted perceptions. Everyone is different, but an abnormally developed brain is certainly predisposed to truly believing what is not real. This leads many people to question what is actually real, and the only way we humans have of measuring what is real is simply medical research-- observable facts. Actually, there is something else we can observe, from an established point-- feelings. This is what drives the greatest musicians and the music they generate.

Jos

[DragoN]

I'm convinced that mine actually believed his lies.  A lie told often enough seems to be real then.  They deny and lie - it's a sad shame because it hinders real closeness

Repetition of the same untruth does not magically morph into truth.

Try lying to your BPD and watch how they spin... .they know the difference... .they just don't like it when you pull their own game on them.

They know they are lying... .and they are even better at catching you out in a lie... .go figure 

[Up From Here]

Something I learned from the exhausting and pointless exercise of confronting my ex on her lies is that if her lies really matter that much to me after I'm out (and I am) then maybe I was still trying to find a way to stay connected which, was not good for me.

Something else is that I already know the truth and I don't need to hear her lie about lying and why they aren't lies because, because, because.

Lastly and most important to me is, looking for the truth in her lies (how's that for a contradiction?) will never be more important than finding my own truth in me.

She's just not worthy of that much effort to me anymore.  I, however... .am.

Peace, UFH

[MaybeSo]

oh god, sometimes my BPDbf would be BRUTALLY honest and tell me things that I really didn't even need to know, like he had no filter and no common sense. Other times, he would hide or withhold information, after doing something kind of shocking and seeing my shocked response to it. He would flirt and hit on other women and be in contact w/ ex gfs etc. and for the most part at first was somewhat 'upfront'... .I mean, he wasn't reporting to me but he would say, I still talk to so and so and I have all these 'women' freinds and I thought nothing of it.  As time went on and I saw with my own eyes the actual behavior he was engaging in, I would react.  I would point out that his behavior seems odd or not in line with how a man in a committed relationship would act with other women. He would start to vacillate, arguing with me and defending his behavior at times, other times agreeing with my point of view and promising to stop. But when he slipped or behaved that way again, he knew now that I didn't like it, so he started covering it up. I found out, and then that escalated the whole situation because now he is looking like a wilfull liar and not just a socially unskilled guy. Sometimes his lying was more breaking a promise. He would promise to not do X, then he would go and do it anyway, usually trying to hide it.  I have caught him in direct lies, my guy usually will cop to it especially if I have proof.  But he then started the 'I had to lie to you because if you knew you would have freaked out'... .that whole song and dance.  I got a promise out of him that he would not use my past trauma response to his lying as an excuse for further lies.  He promised he would not do that. Then he went and did that very thing he promised he wouldn't do, and played up my anticipated response as the reason why he lies.  I kept asking him, why not just refrain from doing things you think you would have to coover up anyway? Just eliminate all the machinations and drama? He could never, ever answer that one. When I grew up, I was raised on things like "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.'  He missed that memo entirly.  When I caught him actually trying to betray me w/ with an ex gf, red handed, he fell apart and went into this dark shamfull place, talking about himself like he was the scum of the earth.  I got a peek at what he really feels like underneath it all when he went to that place.  Have had many long twisty arugments about the relative merits of truth (?) v. the merits of lying with him. In my world, the truth sets you free. He just looked at me like I was raised on another planet. He's in DBT now.  Cross fingers.

[mssalty]

BPD's live in a world where they are usually "honest" when it comes to criticism or in telling you about something they feel you should be attending to.   They'll unleash atom bombs of cruelty toward you and tell you they're just "being honest" which no doubt they are.   There is no filter, no discernment between what is something the BPD should simply keep to themselves or deal with and what they should dump on you. 

The flip side is the lies.    I wound up here because I felt like I was going insane being told I said things I didn't remember saying, having my words twisted, seeing grown adults in my life telling me one thing and then a month later insisting I misunderstood, and me believing them because people just didn't lie about these things.   They do!   

Calling a BPD on their lies can sometimes feel quite satisfying, but always faces a backlash.    The reality is that you will not make your BPD snap out of it, you will not impress them with your logical assessments, and you will not produces any good.    There will be no apology.  There will be no realization that the behavior is not normal nor that it has to stop.     

The key is to realize the lies and not confuse them with the truth.   Just because someone else is crazy doesn't mean you have to be to.    From my experience and what I read here, a BPD has to feel good about themselves no matter what the cost.  That means that any reality that differs from what they believe is "right and good" has to be challenged.    If you point out a lie, a lie is bad, and therefore they couldn't have lied, so they lie, spin, or bring up something you've lied about totake the moral high ground.   

You are looking for sanity where there is none, and a rational response from someone who is completely untrained in how to give one.     

[DragoN]

BPD's live in a world where they are usually "honest" when it comes to criticism or in telling you about something they feel you should be attending to.   They'll unleash atom bombs of cruelty toward you and tell you they're just "being honest" which no doubt they are.   There is no filter, no discernment between what is something the BPD should simply keep to themselves or deal with and what they should dump on you.

Oh yes... .I do know what you are saying... .your entire post is dealing with BPD nutzokookiness in a nutshell.

It's such a pity that he doesn't appreciate the same form of "honesty"... .

Calling a BPD on their lies can sometimes feel quite satisfying, but always faces a backlash.    The reality is that you will not make your BPD snap out of it, you will not impress them with your logical assessments, and you will not produces any good.    There will be no apology.  There will be no realization that the behavior is not normal nor that it has to stop.

From a rationale stand point... .I concur completely. From a pig headed stance... .which I can be most guilty of... .I take a certain form of sick and twisted pleasure when I hang him with his own illogic. Usually ends with a summation of the BS he has spewed and a suggestion to take to a public venue if he expects to me believe his line of idiocy... .see how far it gets him outside the confines of his tiny "kingdom"... .has yet to take me up on the offer... . 

If you point out a lie, a lie is bad, and therefore they couldn't have lied, so they lie, spin, or bring up something you've lied about totake the moral high ground.   

The twists and leaps in logic ... .mind boggling... .yes... .you will go starkers "arguing/ discussing" anything with them.

You are looking for sanity where there is none, and a rational response from someone who is completely untrained in how to give one.   

So very painfully and agonizingly TRUE ^^^


Of course... .now... .knowing the above... .when he goes off the rails... .an eyebrow shoots straight into my hairline... .which drives him Nutz... .but whatever... .He knows I know he's pulling a line of BS. 

[bkay]

Lastly and most important to me is, looking for the truth in her lies (how's that for a contradiction?) will never be more important than finding my own truth in me.

She's just not worthy of that much effort to me anymore.  I, however... .am.

Peace, UFH

What a great thought... .My uexBPDbf would lob grendades at me or others with his "truth"

or "hey I'm an honest person" while he was insulting me or others.  No filter what-so-ever.  But he was lying about his entire life.  He would "feel" better when he told these insults (like how someone looks or how messed up their life was), because he was claiming to be honest.  But his entire life was a lie.  It is all very sad, and must be hard for him to keep up with. 

I think when a non comes to understand this and it really sinks in, like UFH said - it won't be worthy of that much effort anymore. 

[macman]

My experience in nobody likes being caught in a lie and people will usually get defensive.  That part is normal human behavior.  The difference with BPs is they often believe their own lie.  A non, no matter how upset they are at being caught, realizes they lied and did something wrong.  A BP does not seem to be able to do that.

[wendygirl]

Unsure2009,

They will never tell you the truth, and they will always turn it around like you are the one that is insane for your intellectual acussations (or shall we say, your GUT feelings ) ! I wish I could give you more possitive feedback, but I'm still dealing with this kind of thing w/ my BPDbf whom I live with for almost 8 years, and have a S6 with !

WG

[7971C]

They will never tell you the truth, and they will always turn it around like you are the one that is insane for your intellectual acussations (or shall we say, your GUT feelings ) !

They will do the same thing if you catch them red-handed with positive proof.

[Vanityvanity]

The thing is, I don't know if they were lies. He used to tell me rather unflattering things other people had said about me, but I could hardly go and ask them about it. He dumped me for two months then I agreed to reunite, and I told him I had made friends with a man I once fancied, who I never used to get on with. My "boyfriend" then told me that this man had been involved in a violent incident at the drop-in centre we both go to, and had been banned. I was shocked by this. Later I asked one of the staff and it wasn't true. Of course it may be that someone lied to my ex. Who knows.

[In_n_Out]

My dBPDxgf was so stunned at my perception that she just freely admitted.  I suspected that she had ran to a replacement.  "Yes, I have been seeing someone".  I guessed that when we first met and she would borrow my car, she not only looked for a job but probably went to see old bf's.  "Yes, I did".  That was before I even knew what BPD was.  I started researching her behavior and started to suspect BPD.  Read some books ("Eggshells" book the primary one) and reading these forums and then against the advice of the book and those here, I asked her straight up if she's heard of BPD and that I suspect she may suffer from it.  "So now you know.  Yes, I was *last* diagnosed in 2007... . ".  I don't know if she has guilt or if it's to insult me or she's just truly amazed at how I could possibly of figured all of these things out about her.  It doesn't really matter now though.

[thicker skin]

 

First off, you have to be sure it's a lie and not a doubt. Continually doubting someone can lead to them concealing things from you, as many a BPD partner can tell you 

I'll certainly agree with the lack of filter as far as brutal honesty goes... . Judging others harshly appears to make them feel better about themselves and is a given right, though God help anyone who dares to afford them the same 'luxury'. It's advised to be at a safe distance, say, Jupiter, in a nuclear bunker.

Be prepared for the truth twister as well. You may well have had 15 witness's to crazy behaviour, discussed it at the time, made up and received an apology, but if the wind changes direction, be ready to unreservedly accept that it DID NOT HAPPEN. The burning words may still be etched in your ears, you may still have the scars, but do not deny them their truth. You will be a liar.

What they don't know, they will make up and it is your job to quietly accept it as the gospel truth. It might have been your phone call with your mum and only you could hear both sides of the conversation, but from another room, a borderline can tell you what the other person was saying and pick a fight over it. They can even tell you who you were talking to and if you're rude enough to show them your calls list and point out their innocent mistake, take cover. You're just looking for a fight or trying to be right.

They will lie by omission and they will straight out lie, if it achieves what they want at that moment in time. They will also be unable to trust you and constantly look for reasons to validate their inability to trust. At this point, hand them a mirror.

[maxen]

They will lie by omission and they will straight out lie, if it achieves what they want at that moment in time.

this certainly was my experience  :'(

[mywifecrazy]

Someone in Fleetwood Mac must of had a relationship with pwBPD

"Tell me lies, tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies... . Come tell me lies"

"No, no, no, you can't deny it... . Come tell me lies"

Once I'm able to take myself MENTALLY out of the firing line of my uBPDxw's lies and the destruction they cause... . I actually feel sorry for her. Even when confronted with cold hard evidence she can't admit to the truth.  It's just too painful for her.  Man that's got to be a HORRIBLE existence for her.

My problem is that her lies hurt our sons 14 & 9. That's when I STOP feeling sorry for her!