Recycle attempt or games?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Recycle attempt or games?

I have been NC with my uxBPDgf since mid October of last year.  I had contact with her that I wrote about during Christmas when she told me she missed me and I'm still special and always will be special in her life.  She even bought me a nice bottle of wine as a present.  After that we had NC until a few days ago.  We both work for the same airline and worked the same trip over a 3 day period.  During this time she told me that even though she is still with the replacement, she thinks of me often and can't get over me.  She said even the replacement has noticed that she's not over me.  During the trip even the replacement tried to call me because he thought she was with me and was very jealous.  She kept telling me that I always brought her peace, but she is with the replacement now and the decision has been already made to stay with him.  She was very affectionate with me during the entire trip, the rest of our coworkers even noticed that she was definitely into me.  She kept telling me she was very jealous of me dating other girls, and she is somehow mentally connected to me.  In the end we had a discussion in the parking lot and I got a bit upset and left.  I haven't heard from her since but I thought I had my closure from her during our Christmas interaction, but now am left really confused.  I've had the urge to contact her yesterday and today, but have thus far not done it.  What do you guys make of this?  Is this a recycle attempt even though she said she's not leaving her new guy, or is she playing games?  I asked her if she loved him, she said, I think so, then maybe, then no.  Is there trouble in paradise on their end or is she just confused?  She overlapped me with this guy and said to me when I was with you, I wanted to be with him, but now I'm with him and can't stop thinking about you.  She said she thinks she is in love with me but in denial.  She kept saying that she thinks her feelings for me are bigger then she thinks.  However, she said she made the decision to be with the replacement.  This has really triggered me big time.  I'm hanging in but really confused now. 

[woke up]

Recycle attempt or games?

I have been NC with my uxBPDgf since mid October of last year.  I had contact with her that I wrote about during Christmas when she told me she missed me and I'm still special and always will be special in her life.  She even bought me a nice bottle of wine as a present.  After that we had NC until a few days ago.  We both work for the same airline and worked the same trip over a 3 day period.  During this time she told me that even though she is still with the replacement, she thinks of me often and can't get over me.  She said even the replacement has noticed that she's not over me.  During the trip even the replacement tried to call me because he thought she was with me and was very jealous.  She kept telling me that I always brought her peace, but she is with the replacement now and the decision has been already made to stay with him.  She was very affectionate with me during the entire trip, the rest of our coworkers even noticed that she was definitely into me.  She kept telling me she was very jealous of me dating other girls, and she is somehow mentally connected to me.  In the end we had a discussion in the parking lot and I got a bit upset and left.  I haven't heard from her since but I thought I had my closure from her during our Christmas interaction, but now am left really confused.  I've had the urge to contact her yesterday and today, but have thus far not done it.  What do you guys make of this?  Is this a recycle attempt even though she said she's not leaving her new guy, or is she playing games?  I asked her if she loved him, she said, I think so, then maybe, then no.  Is there trouble in paradise on their end or is she just confused?  She overlapped me with this guy and said to me when I was with you, I wanted to be with him, but now I'm with him and can't stop thinking about you.  She said she thinks she is in love with me but in denial.  She kept saying that she thinks her feelings for me are bigger then she thinks.  However, she said she made the decision to be with the replacement.  This has really triggered me big time.  I'm hanging in but really confused now. 

[santa]

It sounds to me like she's just trying to manipulate you to "keep you on the hook". She wants to get validation from you. It's probably her way of mindf'ing you a little too since she's jealous that you're interested in other women. I wouldn't put too much thought into it. If she's saying that she's staying with the other guy, what's there to even think about?

I feel bad for the other guy. How would you like to be in his shoes? She's totally disrespecting him. You should be glad it's him being treated this way and not you.

[woke up]

Thanks Santa, I need to hear reality as much as possible so I don't break contact. 

[irishmarmot]

Think about how you last October.   How you feel now and would you be able to trust her.  You're special to her only when you fill a need for her.  Is that the type of relationship that you want.  Better to continue NC or limited contact until you have more clarity.

[ShadowDancer]

Hey Woke Up... . it's time to wake up. Read up on Triangulation. It's a lot like naked ping pong or scissors, paper, and rock.

[Murbay]

My T keeps reminding me that when dealing with this kind of disorder, the mind games will come and every attempt will be used to draw us back in. You have to remember that you were dealing with a very selfish individual who had no consideration for your own feelings, wasn't supportive of your own needs and that everything revolved around her.

The attempts now and the things she has said to you, she hasn't changed. It is still all about what she wants and what she can get. She replaced you with someone else because to her you were worthless but she underestimated just how priceless and valuable you truly are and that hole she thought replacement could fill is still there. You made her feel better once and she remembers that so she is needing you to fill that void again. It has nothing to do with your wants and needs but all about hers. Sadly, that's the nature of the disorder.

The fact she feels jealous of you dating other women, had no bearing or impact that she ran off with a replacement, no consideration to how you felt about that but when it affects her, she wants to try and catch you off guard. Someone once said that pwBPD usually jump when they have a replacement lined up because for them to jump without is a dangerous move on their behalf. They leave themselves open and vulnerable and having nobody to project their needs on to.

Don't be fooled that you are the only one when they reach out either. That part is our narcissism in that our ex has reached out to us and wants us. I have no doubt in my mind that she may be contacting other exes, new potential replacements as well as yourself and creating a safety net for herself. The fact she is reaching out means she may very well be getting ready to jump ship from replacement too and leave him in the same situation she left you in.

It's the most frustrating catch 22 position to be in. You put yourself back out on the hook, it validates her and fills that void for a short time making her life a little more bearable with replacement. Your feelings and emotions are discarded again because she got her needs met and yours don't matter.

As my T put it, if you ever find yourself in doubt or thinking she wants to make a go of things, remember one thing. Remember how you felt when she walked away, remember how it felt when you had all of those feelings and emotions come flooding in, remember what it felt like to have your heart torn to shreds by someone who only cared about themselves and ask yourself, would you be willing to put yourself through all of that pain again and most importantly, do you deserve to be put through all of that pain again.

You have come a very long way in your healing and you see things for what they truly are. You are no longer oblivious to the fact that this is an incurable disorder and we are not the cure. Why should we be used in such a manner and doesn't it tell you what they think about our worth? We are worth far more than that and we owe it to ourselves to be the best people we can be for us. There are other women out there who would value you for who you are, never set out to hurt you and would be willing to give as much as they take.

See this as your validation that your ex is disordered and that you are not the cause of it. You can't fix it either and by the sounds of it neither can Mr replacement. Stay true to who you are, heal with dignity and pride and when you are ready, find that woman out there who sees you for your true value and not the one who sees what she can get from you.  

[woke up]

Thanks all, I have held out and have not contacted her, nor do I intend to.  I made a promise to myself when I first started NC in October, I would not contact her no matter what.  I an on holding true to that.  Thanks again, it's always clearer to hear it from others in the same boat. 

[Pearl55]

Oh she thinks about you and SLEEPS with another man. Ha, it's all games and she wants to keep you hooked and use you to manipulate the other guy,that's all nothing else. You've been manipulated and seduced by an ACTRESS. Don't participate in her games otherwise she thinks you are an idiot. Sorry I must be honest and there is nothing genuine about a borderline. They are sick and liars. 

[Pretty Woman]

She's trying to hook you.  I posted earlier that I broke NC with my ex this past week... . maybe this will help you. 

I'm in a different place than I was months ago laying in the fetal position unable to shower or function like a normal 38yo adult. When I spoke to her she was lucid and clearheaded but now as I heard her talk I also heard all the contradictions.

They truly want what they can't have.  They also like to see if they can still get you whenever they want.

They are never sincere. 

[Punchbag]

This echoes my relationship with my ex so much it's scary.

5 weeks NC, and getting stronger.

[In_n_Out]

This echoes my relationship with my ex so much it's scary.

5 weeks NC, and getting stronger.

Yeah, mine as well with my dBPDxgf.  She's blocked from all forms of contact except that she could (and has) driven over here and knocked on my door in the past.  If she does it again and *if* I even open the door, the first thing that I would say is:

1) are you still with (him)?

2) did you go back to therapy and resume your CBT's?

Any part of "no" means the door slams shut.

And honestly, even then I'd be the fool for going out even *that* far. 

I keep reminding myself; NOTHING that they said was from their heart.  Not like it would be if we had said it.  Look at their ACTIONS and compare that to their words.  If they don't match up, RUN AWAY.

[growing_wings]

sounds like Manipulation (like others have said... . already)... she wants to keep you on your toes ... . if she is with another guy, she is manipulating you for her own benefits and doing some Triangulation to keep things ready for her... .

i dont know about you, but i dont like to be triangulated.

[woke up]

The replacement is also going through a divorce and so is my xgf.  She has been separated for well over 6 years.  I was with her for 2 yrs.  apparently the story gets even worse.  Someone contacted the replacement's wife and told her he was having an affair with my x.  She asked me if that was me who did it?  I of course wouldn't do that and told her my phone records can prove I didn't do it.  She says, I know I never believed you would do that anyway.  But apparently now the replacement's lawyer and my x's husband's lawyer are talking and both of their divorces will have an impact.  She said everyone is getting subpoenaed, and I may as well.  This whole thing is a mess, and maybe she was been nice to me because she doesn't want me to say anything bad about her. 

She was hung up on 2 things, one that I hate her, which I don't.  I have forgiven her but will not forget what she did.  Second is she made the statement a few times that she only slept with one guy and I'm already dating and F'ing lots of women. 

Do you all think she is concerned whether she can hold onto the replacement through all this chaos and wants to make sure she has a back up, or she is concerned about what I will say when subpoenaed, or perhaps both? 

This whole mess is too much drama for me and I certainly don't need her new man calling me on top of that because he thinks she is with me when not with him. 

[Skip]

She was hung up on 2 things, one that I hate her, which I don't.  I have forgiven her but will not forget what she did.  Second is she made the statement a few times that she only slept with one guy and I'm already dating and F'ing lots of women.  

It is probably very emotionally driven - maybe in the day, maybe more.

Its very likely the new relationship has delivered some disappointment and she remembers how you adore her and that feels good.  The fact that the new boyfriend is getting a divorce makes their relationship stressed and pretty high risk (the boyfriend may not want to jump into a committed relationship).  She may be feeling the strain or seeing the risk or both.  

She may even be sending initial testers your way... .

Ever know a guy that was dating/sleeping with 3-4 girls at a time?  It's a style.  He likes all of them.

I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening, but there may be some of that.

Do you want to be part of it?  It sounds like "no".  I wouldn't.

To answer your title question, "recycle attempt or games?", probably neither.  She is re-opening the door and peaking in, probably curious as to how you will react.  It's probably all very fluid right now.  If you're receptive that may lead to more or it may be enough for her right now.

If you are interested in getting back, but want (or are hoping for) a monogamous relationship. doesn't sound like she is there right now.

Do you want to leave the door open for future possibilities?  :)o you want to be distant friends/exs?  :)o you need an apology right now?

[woke up]

Thanks Skip, I got the apology from her this time.  I told her that since she made the decision to be with another man, and she is not over me, it's best that we maintain NC, and if we end up on a trip, one of us should remove ourself from the trip, or if we end up doing the trip, then to maintain distant so she will eventually detach from me.  I told her, likely this I'll be the last time I see her and I wanted to remember her as happy, but unfortunately when she started talking in circular, I got upset and told her I had to leave, she hugged me hard and kissed me on the cheek without me returning the kiss and I left in my car without looking at her. 

In her mind, I think she wants to detach from me to focus on her new man, but I think she can't and over time she has thought about me more and more.  She even told me it's my fault that she is this way (always thinking about me).  I didn't get that at all and had to almost laugh.  She seemed to have gone into full idealization mode on our flight back.  While the passengers were boarding, I stepped out of the cockpit and she was standing there, she looked hit (she was fanning herself), I asked if the temperature was fine because she looked hot, she said, it's because you're standing in front of me.  Another time during the flight she said she got goose bumps standing so close to me.  She even went as far as touching me on my face several times in the front galley of the plane.  This was very atypical of her because she doesn't like people to know her business, but another coworker was standing right behind her and she didn't care that she saw this. 

Do I really want her back?  I suppose if I was being really honest with myself, the answer would be that there is a part of me that wants her back, however, the rational side of me knows that it would be a lifetime of misery.  It seems that when I'm really ready to detach totally, I end up on a trip with her and it triggers me.  I did tell her that she meets the criteria for BPD and she said she would research it.  Other than that it seems any time I interact with her, I'm left confused about the hit and run that just happened. 

[Skip]

Do I really want her back?  I suppose if I was being really honest with myself, the answer would be that there is a part of me that wants her back, however, the rational side of me knows that it would be a lifetime of misery.  It seems that when I'm really ready to detach totally, I end up on a trip with her and it triggers me.  I did tell her that she meets the criteria for BPD and she said she would research it.  Other than that it seems any time I interact with her, I'm left confused about the hit and run that just happened. 

It's really hard to let go of someone you love - even if they are a mess.  I think it helps to be real honest with yourself like this. 

A lot of times in these situations, the pwBPD comes back and we want some penance or self-awareness on their part before we'll re-engage.  This approach rarely works out.  Often the other person feels their face is being rubbed in it and they back off - then we reach out - and it's really messy.

Try to avoid that.

I think the real question for you is do you want her back and can you accept meeting her where she is?  If you do, you probably want to take this very slow - court her.

If you are really committed to letting it go - especially considering your feelings - avoiding contact for 8-12 weeks is probably pretty necessary.

[growing_wings]

Do I really want her back?  I suppose if I was being really honest with myself, the answer would be that there is a part of me that wants her back, however, the rational side of me knows that it would be a lifetime of misery.  It seems that when I'm really ready to detach totally, I end up on a trip with her and it triggers me.  I did tell her that she meets the criteria for BPD and she said she would research it.  Other than that it seems any time I interact with her, I'm left confused about the hit and run that just happened. 

It's really hard to let go of someone you love - even if they are a mess.  I think it helps to be real honest with yourself like this. 

A lot of times in these situations, the pwBPD comes back and we want some penance or self-awareness on their part before we'll re-engage.  This approach rarely works out.  Often the other person feels their face is being rubbed in it and they back off - then we reach out - and it's really messy.

Try to avoid that.

I think the real question for you is do you want her back and can you accept meeting her where she is?  If you do, you probably want to take this very slow - court her.

If you are really committed to letting it go - especially considering your feelings - avoiding contact for 8-12 weeks is probably pretty necessary.

Skip, can i ask why 8 - 12 weeks NC is good? is this kind of recommended to move on? i am on Week 6 NC...

[woke up]

Do I really want her back?  I suppose if I was being really honest with myself, the answer would be that there is a part of me that wants her back, however, the rational side of me knows that it would be a lifetime of misery.  It seems that when I'm really ready to detach totally, I end up on a trip with her and it triggers me.  I did tell her that she meets the criteria for BPD and she said she would research it.  Other than that it seems any time I interact with her, I'm left confused about the hit and run that just happened. 

It's really hard to let go of someone you love - even if they are a mess.  I think it helps to be real honest with yourself like

A lot of times in these situations, the pwBPD comes back and we want some penance or self-awareness on their part before we'll re-engage.  This approach rarely works out.  Often the other person feels their face is being rubbed in it and they back off - then we reach out - and it's really messy.

Try to avoid that.

I think the real question for you is do you want her back and can you accept meeting her where she is?  If you do, you probably want to take this very slow - court her.

If you are really committed to letting it go - especially considering your feelings - avoiding contact for 8-12 weeks is probably pretty necessary.

Thank you Skip.  I guess I have to do some serious soul searching and decide which direction I really want to go, and then go all out in that direction and not look back. 

[Skip]

Thank you Skip.  I guess I have to do some serious soul searching and decide which direction I really want to go, and then go all out in that direction and not look back.  

We get caught up in the drama ourselves.  Many of us do.  There is a funny song by the Old 97s where I guy sings about what a mess his girlfriend is:

This is the story of Victoria Lee

She started off on Percodan and ended up with me... .

And the chorus:

Victoria, don't go, Victoria, Victoria, don't go

So, I think the first thing is to let go of the drama.  Yes, the stuff she did sucked, yes we got our feeling hurt, yes... .  Let it go.

The question you are asking is the right one.  Take some time to talk this through with folks here on the undecided board... . what good about her, bad about her, where do you fight?

The 8-12 weeks is the time period typically needed to get out of the drama... . sometimes it takes a lot longer.

[woke up]

Skip do you believe from what I have written that this is manipulation on her part or was she in a typical BPD fashion caught up in the emotion of the trip?

[Skip]

Skip do you believe from what I have written that this is manipulation on her part or was she in a typical BPD fashion caught up in the emotion of the trip?

Are those the only choices?   

Wokeup, the question I would ask is why is she seeing someone else.  What's going on?  Does she love you and you pushed her away?  Was she impulsive and selfish?  Or something else?

I certainly don't know the whole story and you may not either.  What is she telling you?  It might help to share that.

The parts that you have shared don't sound too good.  Her spending three days with you and then leaving to spend 4 days with another man seems a lot more significant than what she did on the trip. 

What is this all about?

[woke up]

My thoughts are that she is obsessed with the replacement and not yet ready to leave him, yet wants me on the hook as well because things aren't as smooth as she thought they would be because she thought she found the missing piece with the replacement.  I also think that she knows I'm not ready to take her back so she may be holding onto the replacement for that reason as well.  What she told me was that she can't stop thinking about me and believes she is in love with me but in denial.  However, that she has made the decision to be we him.  Yet she keeps telling me how I'm the one that brings her peace, and that she is very jealous of me seeing other women.  She told me that she will seek me out in the future, because she can't get past me.  Sounds to me like she wants to follow up with the current obsession, however, at some level thinks it won't work, so she wants me on the hook so she can come back.  Very selfish on her part. 

As I said there is a part of me that wants her back, but I also know that realistically it's not the right thing to do unless she commits to going to therapy and I see progress, then and only then would I even entertain starting something, but very very slow.

[Waifed]

It sounds to me like she's just trying to manipulate you to "keep you on the hook". She wants to get validation from you. It's probably her way of mindf'ing you a little too since she's jealous that you're interested in other women. I wouldn't put too much thought into it. If she's saying that she's staying with the other guy, what's there to even think about?

I feel bad for the other guy. How would you like to be in his shoes? She's totally disrespecting him. You should be glad it's him being treated this way and not you.

He (woke up) was in his shoes and would be again if he ever decides to return to her.  This in itself should tell you what kind of character this woman has.  She is the same as many other pwBPD traits.  They don't really care about anyone but themselves.  You wonder why they hate themselves.  Woke Up... . do you really want to be with a person that wants you on her terms?  You are better than that.  It is difficult because these people are so addicting.  Ask yourself why you want to go back.  Make a list of the pro's and con's.  If the pro's outweigh the con's then you are probably lying to yourself.  I know it is hard but look at the progress you have already made.  :)o you want to start over?  What are the odds that you two will live happily ever after?

Good luck to you.  I know how hard it is.  I have been NC since September and some days I long to hear from her.  If she showed up at my door I would have a very difficult time not letting her in.  All of this and I know there is ZERO CHANCE of a future with her.  Time will heal but you have got to stay away from her.

[Skip]

However, that she has made the decision to be with him.

That's a pretty clear statement.

What she told me was that she can't stop thinking about me and believes she is in love with me but in denial.  

That's a pretty clear statement, too.

Doesn't it sound likes she wants him more the he wants her. And she feels you want here more than she wants you?  At this time.

It's probably time to take a strategic retreat... . not an emotional one... . but one as a strong male with values and confidence.

~ it will allow you time to regroup and reconnect with yourself

~ it will start transforming your image with her from consolation prize to prize

~ it will end the unhealthy relationship you two have had since she started seeing someone else

Ultimately, whether you want her back or you want out, the best action is the same here... . project that you are enjoying your life and not living on the edge of your seat wondering what she will do next. Force yourself to do that.  Thats a "CBT" tactic.  

If she bids an overlapping trip with you - treat her like everyone else on the crew.

Detach.  It will help.

[woke up]

Thanks, I believe me maintaining NC with her did just that.  I plan to keep nc from my end, should she reach out to me, I'll evaluate it and respond accordingly.  We have interacted twice since mid October when I caught her cheating.  I told her the consequences of her actions are that I will no longer be in her life and kept NC until we met on the two trips.  Thanks

[woke up]

Oh one other thing, I don't think the replacement is not into her as much as she's into him, because he chased her hard, and wants to move in with her, but so far she hasn't allowed it.  I believe this is the avoidant part of the BP disorder on her part.  I think the fact that I have maintained nc, and then actually paid attention to her on the trip she went over the edge with her emotions of how we used to be.  However, her obsession with the other guy has not yet subsided, I.e. Devaluing of replacement is not in motion yet.