Maybe we were both BPD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have been reading lots on here recently.  I am having a really bad time, both coping with the end of my marriage and the consequences of this such as lack of finances, etc.  I am also having major problems with my 16 year old son who is treating me far worse than my exBPDh ever did.

The more I read the more I believe that I may have BPD.  Even my son shouted at me today that I am mental and that's why my ex left and I will end up on my own forever because nobody wants to be with me.

It's true though and that's why it hurt so much when he said it.  I am the common denominator in all this.  My son is treating me like crap.  My ex treated me like crap when he left.  Nobody ever stays with me.  Nobody wants to be with me.  Even a loser like my ex was able to replace me instantly but I am still alone.  Like my son said, I will end up alone forever.  I must be doing something to cause this.

[Popcorn71]

I have been reading lots on here recently.  I am having a really bad time, both coping with the end of my marriage and the consequences of this such as lack of finances, etc.  I am also having major problems with my 16 year old son who is treating me far worse than my exBPDh ever did.

The more I read the more I believe that I may have BPD.  Even my son shouted at me today that I am mental and that's why my ex left and I will end up on my own forever because nobody wants to be with me.

It's true though and that's why it hurt so much when he said it.  I am the common denominator in all this.  My son is treating me like crap.  My ex treated me like crap when he left.  Nobody ever stays with me.  Nobody wants to be with me.  Even a loser like my ex was able to replace me instantly but I am still alone.  Like my son said, I will end up alone forever.  I must be doing something to cause this.

[Take2]

Hi Popcorn... .   I'm so sorry you sound so low... . you are going thru a difficult time and no doubt a 16 year old can make everything more challenging... . Are you in therapy or every talk to a therapist?  If not, maybe you could try talking to someone who can help you explore whatever you feel your own issues are. 

I have read many times and do believe that BPD occurs on a continuum - and someone can have very strong, pervasive characteristics and someone else might just have a few.  Not everyone is all or nothing with it.

And then there are other comorbid disorders that could be present as well.  I certainly can recognize a couple borderline traits in myself but know I don't have BPD.  And then of course going thru difficult relationships, regardless of what personality disorders either person has, can be quite difficult to process afterward.

Start with one step at a time, be gentle with yourself... .   we all have room for improvement... .    

[Popcorn71]

I am not in therapy, I can't afford it.  I wish I could.

When I read things that people with BPD have done, I often find myself thinking of things I did.  However, I can say that most of this occurred after my ex started to be abusive to my son and I felt forced into a corner.  He was trying to make me choose between them.  In the end he left and I finally put my son first.

I have recognised that most of my 'bad behaviour' happened when I could see there was a very real possibility of our marriage ending and I was in panic.  I was terrified of being abandoned again and was doing anything I could to hold on to our failing relationship.

[Take2]

I certainly understand the panicked feeling of abandonment... . and the only person who has ever abandoned me over and over is my BPD ex !  go figure... !  Stress can cause pretty severe physical and emotional reactions... . consider the intense stress that comes with having a r/s with someone who has BPD... .   pretty severe side effects... .   lots of emotions to work thru no matter who you are after going thru difficult situations... .

divorce is one of the most stressful things someone can go thru even without the consideration of personality disorders.  Be good to yourself... .   you do deserve it... .   take the time to take care of you and find yourself and love yourself... .   you will then find someone to share a healthy r/s with... .    

[HappyNihilist]

Popcorn, I am so sorry you're going through such emotional turmoil.   You've been through it. And like Take2 said, I'm sure that having a teenager around, especially when he is saying such things to you, makes it all the more difficult.

I can't imagine how it must feel to have your child say things like that to you. You don't deserve those words to be spoken to you. However, he is a teenager who is in pain, and he is expressing himself. Try to see it more as what he's going through than as a reflection on YOU.

If what you're seeing in yourself as "BPD traits" is just arising from this r/s and its end (not counting the fear of abandonment -- almost everyone has that in some way), then don't start diagnosing yourself just yet.   First of all, there is some natural mirroring that comes into play in such a r/s. pwBPD aren't the only ones who do it. Also, as you said yourself, you were acting on very deep, triggered, overwhelming abandonment fears. That will certainly make you act in a way that you may feel is "crazy!" I know it did for me personally. And you had the added stress and motivation of taking care of your son!

You are doing the right things. You are working on yourself. You are getting out of a toxic r/s. Keep taking care of yourself, and your son. Remember: you did the right thing.

[AG]

Popcorn. I'm barely hanging on myself so maybe not the best person to be giving advice being that I'm in severe pain as well and finding it hard to cope. I'm no doctor but chances are judging from looking back on your posts you are not BPD. If you were you would not be mourning over this relationship the way that you are. You would have had a replacement lined up and had been sneakily trying to replace him once turmoil came into play. You would have been looking for him to save you from your inner turmoil and then blamed him when he could not do such a task. You would have probably been cheating. You would have been pathologically lying to him left and right for your own benefit. (Not the type of lying like lying that you like a shirt he is wearing when you really don't if you catch my drift).

These asswipes will have you thinking you are crazy. Google BPD and gas lighting to see what I'm talking about. Midpoint in my relationship with my BPD before diagnosis and I was just aware of major depression diagnosis. I continuously urged her to go to see a therapist for her outburts and inner turmoil. She went to that therapist maybe about once or twice and then told me that 50 dollars co-payment per session was too much money for her to afford. However after she went for the first session the therapist told her she needs to calm down about a couple of things one being that there was nothing wrong with the amount of times we were seeing each other per week. He also told her to calm down about my decision to not move in with her because it was too soon and if I was not wanting to increase time with her yet she should not be worrying about moving in with me. Things went well for a while after that but she stopped going aka sabatoged any progress she could have made at that point. Meanwhile she was partying all the time and drinking all the time and spending money on anything but therapy. I told her why did she stop going and she blamed it on me saying I should have paid for it. I said I would have paid for it if she made at least some of the effort. I even broke down the math for her and said ok so you mean to tell me that a corporate employee who works in HR and makes more money then me cannot afford to go to therapy even once per month? That equals out to $25 per pay check aka every two weeks. I said if I saw her making effort I would gladly pick up the tab for more sessions but am not going to take responsibility for all of her payments of her mental health.

Anyhow why I brought this story up is because recently while we were still talking not sure during which recycle she said that her therapist(post BPD diagnosis) said be careful he might be a sociopath. I was pissed and outraged and said do you know the amount of lies you would have to spew for a therapist to think Im a sociopath? She said well thats what he said. I was hurt and angry and thought she was lying just to hurt me. This is before I knew the word gas-lighting. Being the analytical type of person I am I gave a small amount of entertain to her theory or better yet her lies. I looked up sociopath and found an online test. Before taking the test do you know what the first sentence said? It said chances are if you are even questioning that you are a sociopath that you are not one. A sociopath is not going to care whether they are one or not or even care to look. I still proceeded and took the test anyway and low and behold Im not one. Stupid to even take one because I already knew the definition of what one was they are the most evil and sinister people out there and far from my personality type at all.

Also you son is a teenager and angry at you. When someone is angry at you and yelling at you they are going to say things to hurt you. Being that he is 16 years old he is young and underdeveloped and has way more to grow. I was a teenager too before and a common thing that they can say to theyre parents are things like your ruining my life blah blah blah. Teenagers go through lots of crysis at that age. Especially at 16 for some reason. You seem to be tender and very sensitive to anything just like I am right now thats all. Chances are if you are questioning you are BPD I highly doubt that you are one. Mine denied the diagnosis immediately and from what Ive been reading on here most of them do. Again Im not a doctor but I highly doubt you are one. The last thing Im going to say to you is something that someone said on one of my posts that resonate a bit with me but not in theyre exact words.

He does not have the ability to mourn. He just jumps onto the next victim and leeches off of them. He jumped off of you when you were drained and attached to another host. There is an organism that does the same thing. Its called a parasite. You have the ability to mourn which means you have the ability to actually love. You are Human. Unfortunately he is not. He has the ability to be human but choses not to. We are human beings. Mourning your loss is very human. Parasitic behavior is not.

[Pecator]

 pretty severe side effects... .  

Oh my goodness, Popcorn! I so had the fears that you expressed.

When I first learned of the whole BPD thing, I began to think that I was the one. I was clinging. I was the one who feared abandonment more. My uBPDex seemed ok just walking away and never hearing from me.

Can I tell you a secret? (Please don't let anyone else read this )

When she first split me for the replacement she is recycling now, I actually disguised myself and spent an evening watching her with him and all of our mutual friends at a bar where I used to be with them all. That was only one of the lowest of the lows.

I totally exhibited symptoms of BPD. The only difference? I sought and found this place. The one difference is that even in my lowest of lows, I somehow want to face the darkness and find light.

Finding this place has helped me to see why I decided to disguise myself. It helped me see why I made the choices I am not proud of.

My ex would never seek out this place. Much less, she would never explore it.

To put it simply, this is the fundamental difference. pwBPD would never be looking for answers outside of their world. It's just too painful and frightening. For Nons, it is essential.


As for your son, may I suggest he is responding naturally to an unnatural situation. He is responding naturally, given his developmental needs, to what Take2 so rightly calls "pretty severe side effects."

I say this because my ex's 16-year-old was similarly acting out. She tried to control his actions. I tried to show him love without accepting his bad behaviour. As much as his mother will have nothing to do with me, he continues to text me twice a week and is becoming a remarkable young man

[Emelie Emelie]

Oh Popcorn I've had those thoughts many times.  Maybe I'm the one with BPD or NPD or is just generally f'ed up.  What I really think is that we "Nons" definitely have relationship issues of our own.  Or else why would we stay with them and God help me go back to them?  I've certainly recognized my fear of abandonment and need to feel "special".  I clearly have my insecurities and self esteem issues in relationships.  But then again don't we all?  To some extent?  We just managed to get involved with people who have a serious mental illness.  An illness that manifests in personal relationships.  A relationship that makes us feel crazy because it it crazy.  Nothing makes sense.  They switch from undying love to venomous hate in a second.  (At least mine did.)  They tend to constantly criticize.  You start to personalize and lose perspective.  After the first break up I felt like a complete failure as a human being and as a woman.  Not good enough in any sense.  I've learned a lot about BPD and myself over the past year and a half and I've got a bit more perspective on that this time around.  But it's still tremendously hard not to personalize it.  Especially when you're heartbroken.  So no, it's not you.  It's their illness. 

[Popcorn71]

Thank you for your replies.  I feel low again today.

I saw photos online of my ex and the replacement.  What hurts most is that she has a son only slightly older than mine and he seems to go everywhere with them.  My daughter even saw them all together at the supermarket.  The reason my ex gave for leaving me, was that he hated my son and couldn't see a future with me because he would always be around. 

Why is he accepting her son and not mine?  Why didn't he want me enough to make an effort with my family?

The only consolation I have at the moment is that the son seems to be very close with the replacement.  In all the photos he has his arm around her or is standing close and my ex always looks 'in the way' or off to the side of them.  I have a feeling that this boy will soon be a pain to my ex just as my son was.

Also, a comment that my ex used to say a lot when we first got together was 'to love you I know I have to love your children too'.  He was good at saying it but his actions were far from loving after the first year or so.  Unfortunately I didn't get to know the full extent of his violence towards my son until after we had split up.

Just writing this makes me wonder why I feel like I do.  It is certainly like an addiction.  I don't even like this man but I still want him to want me and love me.  Why oh why?  I know it is best to just let go and forget him, but I can't do it.  What is wrong with me?

[Landslide2014]

Oh my, popcorn. I can sense your pain. I am sorry. I understand the doubt and have many times questioned my own sanity. I have come to learn that the anger and the pain are messages that I need to pay attention... . to me and my own needs. There is usually an unmet need that I have foregone?  Why have I ignored my need?  Probably because I was too busy focusing on everyone else.  One of my greatest discoveries during this recovery process has been that I abandoned myself. I was so fearful of being abandoned by everyone else  that I didn't even consider that I was the master at doing my own abandoning... . of me.  Now how in the world can I be healthy if I don't honor my own truth?  So, a huge work in progress, but  now I find so much more peace in listening to and satisfying my own needs.  And the guilt has lessened tremendously. I am worthy. Really. And so are you. It is practice and progress, not perfection. Expecting others to fill my worth is unrealistic. I have choices.  I can listen to what my needs are and get them met... . probably not be the BPD, but in a healthy way. I can acknowledge and allow for what I am feeling and needing and not give permission to the BPD or anyone else to threaten that truth.

[Take2]

Just writing this makes me wonder why I feel like I do.  It is certainly like an addiction.  I don't even like this man but I still want him to want me and love me.  Why oh why?  I know it is best to just let go and forget him, but I can't do it.  What is wrong with me?

You answered your own question there... . what is wrong with you?  you are addicted.  And due to the intermittent reinforcement that you received during the course of the relationship, you find it wildly difficult to stop the addiction.  It's the strongest motivator out there... .   I go thru the exact same feelings of how on earth could I still feel love and want to be loved by someone who is and has been so cruel to me.  It's not "like an addiction" - it IS an addiction.  One that will get better with time as long as you can break the cycle completely.  I hope you are able to be and stay NC.  I amnot - I work with mine -but I do feel like finally the strong grip is loosening for me.  It will happen for you too.  You will process all these feelings and emotions and be able to stand stronger soon... .    

[ts919]

Wow - this thread has really hit home with me.  I was literally talking with my T last night about these exact feelings.  Look, Popcorn, if anything, at least you know now that there are those of us who know almost exactly how you feel... . in a way, it kind of makes me personally feel a little better.  Sounds kind of sad really when I say that, but it's true.  Knowing someone else is ruminating over the same thing makes me feel like maybe everyone is right, I'm not crazy.  Popcorn, I empathize with you - it's soo hard to deal with, it really is. 

I'm addicted to my exuBPDw - one month out from our divorce (a divorce I initiated mind you!) and all I can think about is her.  It consumes me.  Then I start thinking, "what if I would have thought about her this much when we were married?  Would it have made a difference?".

Odds are, it probably wouldn't.  Because the amount of time I am spending thinking about her is not healthy.  Not at all.  It's very much an addiction. 

Just know we are all here for you Popcorn; because we all have similar stories.  They may not all be exactly the same, but at the root of it, they are.  We are good people who fell in love with good people who have a mental illness, one they don't even realize they have most of the time.  They are beautiful, the are contagious, intoxicating, but very damaging... .

[heartandwhole]

Hi Popcorn71,

I'm sorry you are having a bad time, these breakups are so hard.  It's so understandable that you are asking questions about your own behavior, many of us have thought the exact same thing – you are not alone!

These complex attachments to pwBPD can trigger behavior that seems unfamiliar and out of character for us.  In my case, the grieving process revealed places in me that were so tender that I found myself reacting to things in ways that were exaggerated and hyper sensitive, very unlike who I knew myself to be.

Therapy can be very helpful, so if/when that becomes an option for you, I encourage you to take advantage of it.  In the meantime, the lessons on the right can help a lot  -->

The failure of the relationship is not all on you, Popcorn.  It takes two, and it is the dynamic created by both people's relating that contributes to the result.

Here is Belief #3 from the 10 Beliefs that Keep Us Stuck:

Belief that the relationship problems are caused by some circumstance or by you

You concede that there are problems, and you have pledged to do your part to resolve them.

Because there have been periods of extreme openness, honesty, humanity and thoughtfulness during the relationship, and even during the break-ups, your “BPD” partner’s concerns are very credible in your eyes. But your “BPD” partner also has the rather unique ability to distort facts, details, and play on your insecurities to a point where fabrications are believable to you.

It’s a complex defense mechanism, a type of denial, and a common characteristic of the disorder.

As a result, both of you come to believe that you are the sole problem; that you are inadequate; that you need to change; even that you deserve to be punished or left behind.

This is largely why you have accepted punishing behaviors; why you try to make amends and try to please; why you feel responsible. But the problems aren’t all your fault and you can't solve this by changing.

The problems are not all of your partner’s fault either.

This is about a complex and incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.



heartandwhole