Do They Have A Script?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask this, but I couldn't find another thread on this particular board... .

While I understand that our loved ones have rather specific and strikingly similar behavior patterns that are the cornerstones of their suffering, I am always taken aback when I see someone post that their ex or loved one has used the EXACT same words that my ex used.  It is so extraordinary to me that those who suffer from this disorder would have the tendencies to speak the same way.  The behaviors, I can understand to a more reasonable extent, but their use of language is so interesting to me.  I've never seen or recognized such similarities of speech in any other similar-ish disorder.  I've known a few with PTSD (which my ex has) and OCD and a few Schizotypal individuals, but they don't seem to exhibit this use of similar / same language as it seems that many, very many, of those with BPD do.  (I am not a trained medical professional, nor do I try to diagnose anyone, and I admit to knowing very little about psychological disorders of this or any type, so if I make comparisons that are "unfair" or way off base, it's only because I don't know much about the spectra of personality disorders) 

It may be the latent linguist in me, even though I studied a very specific part of speech, but I am so interested in this language phenomenon.  It's as though so many of them have a script... .

Am I the only one who notices the very specific similarities between words and phrases used?  I get the behavior similarities, but the language similarities boggle my mind.

"what would you do if so&so flirted with me?"

"why do you love me?" (This one was very frequent, especially during times when he felt guilt about something.  It is now a huge trigger for me, and if I hear it from another partner in the future, I will run as fast as I can.)

... . and of course, I've just drawn a blank.  There are many more phrases that I've read from other posters here that their ex's or loved ones have said to them.  It is both cool and frightening at the same time.  Were I going for a PhD, I might consider a thesis on the subject.

[maternal]

I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask this, but I couldn't find another thread on this particular board... .

While I understand that our loved ones have rather specific and strikingly similar behavior patterns that are the cornerstones of their suffering, I am always taken aback when I see someone post that their ex or loved one has used the EXACT same words that my ex used.  It is so extraordinary to me that those who suffer from this disorder would have the tendencies to speak the same way.  The behaviors, I can understand to a more reasonable extent, but their use of language is so interesting to me.  I've never seen or recognized such similarities of speech in any other similar-ish disorder.  I've known a few with PTSD (which my ex has) and OCD and a few Schizotypal individuals, but they don't seem to exhibit this use of similar / same language as it seems that many, very many, of those with BPD do.  (I am not a trained medical professional, nor do I try to diagnose anyone, and I admit to knowing very little about psychological disorders of this or any type, so if I make comparisons that are "unfair" or way off base, it's only because I don't know much about the spectra of personality disorders) 

It may be the latent linguist in me, even though I studied a very specific part of speech, but I am so interested in this language phenomenon.  It's as though so many of them have a script... .

Am I the only one who notices the very specific similarities between words and phrases used?  I get the behavior similarities, but the language similarities boggle my mind.

"what would you do if so&so flirted with me?"

"why do you love me?" (This one was very frequent, especially during times when he felt guilt about something.  It is now a huge trigger for me, and if I hear it from another partner in the future, I will run as fast as I can.)

... . and of course, I've just drawn a blank.  There are many more phrases that I've read from other posters here that their ex's or loved ones have said to them.  It is both cool and frightening at the same time.  Were I going for a PhD, I might consider a thesis on the subject.

[LoveLove]

Thank you for sharing! You know that's interesting... . they do have similar thought patterns and seemingly a script. Mine did ask me the following:

HIM: what would you do if an attractive woman flirted with me?

ME: I can't control what women do, but because I trust you and know that you have respect for me, I know you wouldn't act on it.

This was my answer before I even knew about BPD... . but I feel they almost WANT us to be jealous and insecure because then we will want and need them to stay. And in turn, they won't be abandoned by us... . it's very odd to say the least. But I think it's a form of control... .

What other statements have you read? I want to see if they're similar to what I've experienced as well... .

[pininterest]

Maternal - I do agree with you. Reading people's experiences on this forum makes you indeed realise that a communication pattern seems to be at work.

I tend to think it is particularly true when it comes to positive terms. What I have heard from my ex BPD gf and that I have found here:

- "You're my rock"

- "I love you, I love you... . " (repeat x times)

- "I don't know what I would do without you"

- "I see myself with you in x years with [add a romantic image]"

I still struggle though to understand whether these terms are used to manipulate (i.e. you drive your partner's ego given the terms are flattering and he/she feels more anchored into the relationship as a consequence) or whether they are the expression of a genuine feeling at an instant t, but simply overemphasized.

I have also experienced some language outlining insecurities, when I would be out with friends for example. Her: "Ah, you will be gallivanting again", "You always play around when I'm not there, hey?". At that time, my reading was that it was just a game, as a normal couple would sometimes do when showing consideration / a pinch of healthy jealousy.

Curious to hear about other experiences / views as well. I'm wondering also whether behind the same phrase, each BPD means exactly the same, i.e. what is the underlying nature (uncontrolled ingenuous child shout or attempt to control/manipulate)?

[LoveLove]

Pininterest -

I have found that the loving statements are actually meant when they are said. However, their feelings can suddenly change - especially when they feel they have gotten too close to their SO.

Yet, it is in a sense a form of control. Because when they have you, they see that they have you and it's a way to keep you around - since they fear abandonment.

I heard a lot of:

"I'm so in love with you, you don't even know."

"You're the best thing that has ever happened to me."

"I love you the most."

"You're mine forever."

And on and on... . so it is meant... . but again, once they feel they have gotten too close, they freak out and things change... .

[maternal]

Yes! Lots of "you don't even know" and "you have no idea."

Also, plenty of "you're my favorite" and "this love is bigger than life itself."

"I love you the most," too. And "you're my rock." He also referred to me as his "Holy Grail" once.

"You're my reason for living."

"You hold my sunshine."

And then, when it got dark, "I would run from me if I could." "You deserve better."

He wasn't one to tell me how horrible I am, but there was a lot of "I can't trust you."

[Turkish]

Pininterest -

I have found that the loving statements are actually meant when they are said. However, their feelings can suddenly change - especially when they feel they have gotten too close to their SO.

Yes... . and it took me months after she was gone to finally realize that since they cannot control their love and affection, I could never trust her, so I let her go as gracefully as I could. I was so focused on the anger and depression that I forgot that love is an emotion as well. She wrote in her journal, "Turkish is everything a woman could want in a man [notice the idealization... . I haven't acquired that Ferrari yet anyway], but I still can't love him."

"Can't." Interesting... . It implies power of choice while it also signals the opposite.

Yet, it is in a sense a form of control. Because when they have you, they see that they have you and it's a way to keep you around - since they fear abandonment.

It is them trying to assert control, but I wasn't chained to mine, kids notwithstanding. I can talk about FOG... . but I stayed and tried to make it work, not out of my fear of being abandoned; rather, out of my fear of abandoning.

I own that 100%.

[LoveLove]

Maternal - yes! Then it became "you don't need me." "Run." "It's only been a short while, cut your ties."

Simply odd! But I now know it comes from a sense of not being worthy. But I didn't experience the rage that others have or tantrums... . some of this type of talk also comes from other disorders and even depression itself. So I don't know if my ex has been officially diagnosed with BPD, but all the signs are pointing to "yes!"

Turkish - That's very interesting. So you're saying the statements are not meant? I'm sorry, I don't want to misunderstand what you're saying... . but yes "can't" is definitely a choice.

As far as control goes - what's interesting is that THEY feel that WE are controlling them and keeping them "trapped" - when in fact they do all of the controlling and manipulating. But I understand better now that with such an illness, their minds simply think differently... .

[Turkish]

Turkish - That's very interesting. So you're saying the statements are not meant? I'm sorry, I don't want to misunderstand what you're saying... . but yes "can't" is definitely a choice.

I may be trying to read too much into it, so YMMV. In my mind, it were fully conscious, she would have said, "I don't love him." Part of her still wanted to (implied by the guilt I felt from her, and also by some other things she wrote), but she had found her new Attachment Object, so with that she couldn't. There was conflict in the thought. She's still attached to me as the father of her children (her new AO is young enough to be my son, and immature even for his age), but I keep as LC as possible.

As far as control goes - what's interesting is that THEY feel that WE are controlling them and keeping them "trapped" - when in fact they do all of the controlling and manipulating. But I understand better now that with such an illness, their minds simply think differently... .

After she felt more secure, she appreciated that I didn't try to control her. In the beginning, she was projecting that I was, though I wasn't at all.

[Narellan]

Many many from mine I have seen posted on here:

"I've waited for you my whole life"

" we love each other so much don't we"

"I've never felt this way before, I can't get you out of my head"

" you are forever entwined in my soul"

" you are part of me and my family now forever "

" you've completely helped me get over k ( ex gf of 3 years)

" you're so easy to be myself with"

" I've longed for a ( local Suberb) gf my whole life.

" we're soul mates "

" you've taught me so much about relationships"

" I've never loved anyone like this before"

At times when he denied saying he loved me and I used one of the above as an example to jog his memory he would reply " try not to take too much notice of my words" 

[Alex86]

From mine:

"Why do you want to be with me"

"Why do you do you love me?"

"You are the only one who cannot yell back"

"You make me feel calm"

"You have changed my life"

"You will always have a part in my heart"

"You were and will be a major part in my life"

"I love your voice"

"You can't understand how I love you"

"You did x and now I can't trust you"

"No one does x if loves someone"

"We have amazing sex but it's not enough"

"We love each other but it's not enough"

"If you don't do x you don't love me"

[maternal]

Yes. All of those. Uncanny... . Is it just the males saying these specific things? Perhaps the female sufferers have their own script?

The statements of "love is not enough" really got to me.

"No matter what happens, you will always be special to me."

"I love everything about you."

"You're so special to me."

"You make me want to be a better man."

"You didn't do your part."

"That's not love."

[LoveLove]

Scary how similar these statements are. But we have to remember (from what I've read) that there is a fear of abandonment, so by reeling you in with such statements (and who wouldn't want to hear such statements of love), you would be guaranteed to stay in the relationship. Even though it seems that they already know they're going to leave at some point (when they get too close).

Did any of you experience any public displays of them wanting to share their love with you? Meaning actually yelling out how they love you? Almost something a child would do in a sense.

[BorisAcusio]

Mine still used the "soul mate" crap long after she departed and clearly stated that doesn't love me anyomore. After a bad day or a date gone wrong, she needed soothing so throw it in to keep me hooked. It's always suprising how shallow their emotions are.  

[cosmonaut]

I don't think it's just the men at all.

Some of the things my ex told me (first the good, then the bad):

"You are the greatest man I've ever met."

"I will never give up on you."

"I will love you forever and always."

"I would be lost without you."

'"I have never trusted anyone before like I trust you."

"I feel I can tell you anything."

"I just had this feeling from the start that I could trust you."

"You are my everything."

"I've never felt this way about anyone before."

"I can't believe how much you calm me down."

"We have this incredibly special connection between us."

"You are the greatest blessing I've ever known."

"You are my fairytale prince."

"You are my soulmate."

"Then find someone else normal.  You're not tied down."

"Sorry I've been so distant.  I just need some space.  I hope you can understand."

"I'm not going to see you."

"I just feel so irritable I can't even stand myself."

"It doesn't matter what you say."

"I wish I could be a normal girlfriend."

"I feel awful I can't give you the love you deserve."

"I'm going to f*** up again."

[woodsposse]

I don't think it's just the men at all.

Some of the things my ex told me (first the good, then the bad):

"You are the greatest man I've ever met."

"I will never give up on you."

"I will love you forever and always."

"I would be lost without you."

'"I have never trusted anyone before like I trust you."

"I feel I can tell you anything."

"I just had this feeling from the start that I could trust you."

"You are my everything."

"I've never felt this way about anyone before."

"I can't believe how much you calm me down."

"We have this incredibly special connection between us."

"You are the greatest blessing I've ever known."

"You are my fairytale prince."

"You are my soulmate."

"Then find someone else normal.  You're not tied down."

"Sorry I've been so distant.  I just need some space.  I hope you can understand."

"I'm not going to see you."

"I just feel so irritable I can't even stand myself."

"It doesn't matter what you say."

"I wish I could be a normal girlfriend."

"I feel awful I can't give you the love you deserve."

"I'm going to f*** up again."

In a nutshell... . this is exactly what just happened in my last r/s.  Almost word for word.

[lemon flower]

very interesting topic, and I would definitely approve that they use a "script".

To my opinion this script is so similar because the phrases to describe their emotions are simple and one-dimensional, maybe you can link it to children's language ?

no matter how intelligent they are or how well they can communicate in general; when it comes to love or romantic matters they seem to rely on oneliners and generalisations.

My ex could explain me very complex astro-fysical problems and his comprehension of english is from a way higher level than mine, and he can discuss on many subjects for hours, from philosophy over technics to politics, but when it comes to emotional matters he doesn't seem to find the same complex vocabulary, probably because he hasn't learned to determine his emotions or other people's emotions properly.

My friend told me many times that he couldn't find the right words to express his feelings towards me !

To me the previous is the key to this "script", a second explanation lies in the disorder itself; as fear and a lack of trust and self-esteem is the base of all their behaving, it is kind of natural that they will all use the same kind of phrases to express these fears (eg when they express jealousy, when they fear betrayal, when they fear to be left) 

Same for the positive emotions: the joy of being loved, the comforting feeling of being with someone who cares for them, being their angel, their rock, and being too good to be true... .  

[Dolly rocker]

WOW! This is soo spot on! My exBPDbf classics were/are:

"why me? why you chose me"

"How can I be sure u will never cheat on me?"

"you're my life"

"I love u, i love u, i love u, i love u"... . (reapeteadly)

"What if someone better than me comes along?"

"has such and such ever flirted with you"

"We're soul mates"

"Time flies by when I'm with you"

"Now I believe you love me"

"You make me feel complete"

"Theres no one like you"

     

[Dolly rocker]

Now this thread got me thinking... .

Isn't that bizarre that with this disorder they all act EXACTLY the same? Same words, same behaviour... . Almost like they have no personality of their own?          

[woodsposse]

Now this thread got me thinking... .

Isn't that bizarre that with this disorder they all act EXACTLY the same? Same words, same behaviour... . Almost like they have no personality of their own?          

Well, I wouldn't say the exact same - but close enough.  I know when I first got here, one of the things which helped me understand what I had been dealing with was the fact that a lot of other people's stories were the exact same as mine - even down to the exact words being used.

It helped me understand that I wasn't the one mis-remembering stuff, or felt as turned around in my head like I believe the things she said happened in our r/s.

I know even sometimes now, even after being NC with her and finally understanding how her illness also fed on my own issues, sit here and it pops into my head that I was somehow really to blame for stuff.  It only lasts a while.  I've done enough ruminating and understanding of all of this to know that it pops in my head only long enough for me to circle back to her disorder.

Don't get me wrong, I wish I had known all those years ago what I was dealing with.  I know I would have probably acted differently or not had stayed in the r/s as long as I did.  so in some of this I do wish I had acted differently.  There is some guilt in there.

But I didn't know then - and I know now.  No one deserves the effects of having a s/o with this type of disorder because it is just all over the place as in takes you all over the place and makes you crash at the end.  Have a touch of co-depencey and you hop on board willingly for the ride and then hopefully you end up here with like minded folks to share our stories of the crazy train and assure each other it really wasn't us.

[pininterest]

Indeed, a strong consistency in the script.

One question for the group here. Based on your relationship with your ex BPD boyfriend/girlfriend, did you notice that the overemphasized/unbalanced nature of the script could also be found in their interactions with friends and family?

In my case, it always felt that her verbal or written language was the same in both an intimate or public context, at least for the positive terms. People would be "she's so dynamic, positive, caring, etc." and I would be "this is cute, it is a fresh immersion into a 15-year old teenager conversation discovering life and love". We all know this is a different matter.

[Turkish]

Now this thread got me thinking... .

Isn't that bizarre that with this disorder they all act EXACTLY the same? Same words, same behaviour... . Almost like they have no personality of their own?          

This goes back to the core fragmented sense of Self a pwBPD has, no? The script is one of abandonment and the need for validation. Mirroring also plays heavily into this.

The sad thing is that I know that my replacement is getting the exact same words "you love me, right? you won't ever leave me, will you?" And so on... .

[Alex86]

Don't get me wrong, I wish I had known all those years ago what I was dealing with.  I know I would have probably acted differently or not had stayed in the r/s as long as I did.  so in some of this I do wish I had acted differently.  There is some guilt in there.

But I didn't know then - and I know now.  No one deserves the effects of having a s/o with this type of disorder because it is just all over the place as in takes you all over the place and makes you crash at the end.

I have a large amount of patience. Sometimes I tend to go for the difficult things because I know I can handle it.

But that r/s was beyond my powers. I tried so many times to be with her but she kept pushing me away.

I was looking in the staying forum and felt like weak.

There might be the other opinion that staying is the ultimate sacrifice for your love.

One question for the group here. Based on your relationship with your ex BPD boyfriend/girlfriend, did you notice that the overemphasized/unbalanced nature of the script could also be found in their interactions with friends and family?

In my case, it always felt that her verbal or written language was the same in both an intimate or public context, at least for the positive terms. People would be "she's so dynamic, positive, caring, etc."

Yes. Everyone else thinks my ex is the most caring person on earth.

In the idealization phase, my friend who met her told me she is very kind and "seems" to love you.

However, sometimes I think they don't really care. There might be the case that because of the loss of self and the quilt they feel, they try persuade

themselves that they are nice by showing care to other people. 

In our first date I asked her: "Are you really so sensitive, vulnerable and fragile as you seem".

And this came to me without knowing anything about BPD or her behaviour.

[Turkish]

In our first date I asked her: "Are you really so sensitive, vulnerable and fragile as you seem".

And this came to me without knowing anything about BPD or her behaviour.

This sounds Waifish. Have you seen this article?

BPD BEHAVIORS: Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch

"The Queen is controlling, the Witch is sadistic, the Hermit is fearful, and the Waif is helpless.  Each requires a different approach. Don't let the Queen get the upper hand; be wary even of accepting gifts because it engenders expectations. Don't internalize the Hermit's fears or become limited by them. Don't allow yourself to be alone with the Witch; maintain distance for your own emotional and physical safety. And with the Waif, don't get pulled into her crises and sense of victimization; "pay attention to your own tendencies to want to rescue her, which just feeds the dynamic."

[ConverseHome]

Wow, yes, all of this sounds eerily familiar. Though, I must confess, what rings in my ears and straight to my heart - still some 6 months since my xBPDgf broke up with me - are the ways in which she devalued me, sometimes using terms/phrases that wouldn't have dawned on me to use as weapons against anyone, let alone the person I professed to love. Some of her favorites:

- controlling

- toxic

- evil

- poisonous

- sick

Curious, did anyone get this sort of very childish, though still hurtful, name calling? The "toxic" and "evil" terms, along with controlling, were pulled out so many times on my it makes my head spin, still. Moreover, there's little to say in response to such charges, as they are so absurdly childish. Nonetheless, each time I would sit there, like someone hit me with a two-by-four. Then, like a mouse on the wheel, I'd follow the same repetition pattern of trying to defend myself and reason with her. Boy, was that always a huge mistake!

[Emelie Emelie]

I have also been amazed at how similar the words are.  The things they say to us.  I suppose since BPD relationships tend to follow certain patterns it's not too surprising. 

[kba1969]

Very interesting post.  I heard all of these:

"I feel so safe when I'm with you"

"You deserve someone better"

"I love you" one day "I love you but not all the way" the next.

"Your so good to me, your spoiling me"

"I'm attracted to what a great father you are"

"You are so special to me"

"This is the most normal relationship I've ever had"

There's more but I feel like I'm gonna throw up!  Lol!  It's important not to hold onto any of this.

[tango1492]

My uBPDx boyfriend said things like:

I worship you.

You're like a God to me.

I'm so ATTACHED to you.

If we get married, you can never leave me no matter what.

I hate you.

I wish I'd never met you.

[Narellan]

WOW Turkish! I've never read that before. About the 4 personas and that was another lightbulb moment for me. I can relate all of those to my exBPD ( even though he's male)

WOW again!

[really]

The good / buzarre then bad

"I wasn't going to let my sister have you(her married sister with 3 kids who I had never met) when i said jokingly "do you have a sister" the first night we go together

The poem "you walked lightly into my life"

"Sometimes we have to let something go to get it back again" ( after she abandoned me to cover up lies to her ex)

"I want no one else ever"

"I love you more than anything"

":)oes your love for me have no end"

"I have my future husband in me"

"I can't wait to have your babies"

"It's me and you against the world "

"I need you"

"You are the most amazing generous kind handsome loving man in the world"

"I want our babies to be called ... . "

"I have put Really though hell... . I will spend the rest of my life making up for what I out him through" (to my friend that she disliked)

"You need to be like Really.  Show your partner the commitment that he has shown me" (to my friend the same night)

"I just panicked I love you so so so much" (three weeks after abrupt ending of relationship after Xmas).  Let's move to ... . And buy a house with a pool



The bad

"Sometimes love isn't enough"

"I have nothing more to say to you"

"You are mental"

"You need serious help"

"I thought I made myself clear" 24 hours after the last good message - 6 hours together where she threw herself at me wore her engagement ring and told me she couldn't be without me

"You are a horrible horrible person"

"When I get like this (raged) you need to just walk away"

"Our relationship would be better if you were not out drinking with other women all the time" (I had taken my associate for one drink at his request to discuss his performance during his probation period and in the 15 min conversation with him I introduced him to two colleagues who he had not met- he spoke to her for 60 secs while I went to the bar to get a drink"

"When we have babies you will know if they are not yours because we both have the same ear lobes"

"You have destroyed my life "... . Ex found out about her lies to him from another friend.  Meanwhile she had been lying to me for two years

"I cannot go on with secrets and deception any more.   You deserve the truth.   Whatever you decide is up to you.  But you deserve the truth (about previous lies).   When I reminded her of this statement when I asked for honesty and closure I had the police called on me. 

And I'm the one who has come away from this shattered depressed a shell of a person sick single and lost my business which I worked around the clock 12 years to build.   She gets married didn't have a moments disruption to her life and everyone in her world now thinks I am mental

[Red Sky]

I heard a lot of

'I love you' (I made it clear a couple of weeks after we met that I had no further romantic interest.)

'I want to be your knight in shining armor'

'I've never met anyone like you'

'Tell me all the things you like about me again'

(After receiving gifts) 'do you like it?' Not once but several times a day for up to a fortnight

'I'm a monster'

'I'm so stupid, I don't deserve to be happy'

The last two were usually after I said things like that I couldn't stay on the phone, or disagreed with an opinion.

'You're a coward and a liar' - after my first attempt at NC got this, over and over, on my answering machine.

[pininterest]

Yes. Everyone else thinks my ex is the most caring person on earth.

In the idealization phase, my friend who met her told me she is very kind and "seems" to love you.

However, sometimes I think they don't really care. There might be the case that because of the loss of self and the quilt they feel, they try persuade

themselves that they are nice by showing care to other people. 

In our first date I asked her: "Are you really so sensitive, vulnerable and fragile as you seem".

And this came to me without knowing anything about BPD or her behaviour.

Very interesting. I'm once again amazed by the similarities in our stories. On my end, her friends thought she was very caring as well, particularly given her Christian belief. Her ups and downs, her unability to cope with stressful situations and her overexcitement would be seen as pure emotional fragility, full stop.

With regards to your persuasion point, I think I read somewhere that BPD people "can talk the talk, but cannot walk the talk". I believe this somewhat illustrates what you're saying here. There is an apparence of care and empathy and they try to persuade themselves of such a behaviour, but this is not about that in the end.

As I raised before, I still can't figure out the proportion of true talk (e.g. an ephemere instant of care) vs. a controlling talk (the care signal is deliberately built up to manipulate). For me, I think decoding the script is the hardest thing.

'I'm a monster'

'I'm so stupid, I don't deserve to be happy'

The last two were usually after I said things like that I couldn't stay on the phone, or disagreed with an opinion.

'You're a coward and a liar' - after my first attempt at NC got this, over and over, on my answering machine.

These ones are quite rough. Every time we were facing a tense dialogue, she would say: ":)on't patronise me" as I was trying to bring the conversation to a more rationale level. I finally realised in the end it was vain, ending up in apologising myself. She happily took that as an act of weakness to conclude "Here you go again, saying "Im sorry, I'm sorry"". After a couple of minutes, the negative script was completed. Back to square one. Play the track from the beginning... .

[maternal]

I heard lots of "love is not enough."  

My ex said "I'm a monster," long before confessing his diagnosis.  I don't know when he was diagnosed, but it may have been a few weeks before telling me of his monster-ness because that's the last time he was in therapy.  He never said it again after that, but he would say that "it's not fair to you to only get half of a boyfriend" and "I can't be the man that you deserve" quite often.

In the case of my ex, he was very shy and unsure of himself in initial interactions with others.  But, everyone loves him.  He is the first boyfriend that I ever brought home to meet my family and they all really liked him, as does most anyone that meets him.

[LoveLove]

(please correct me if I'm wrong) - but I read somewhere that they're not good at being manipulative (with their words), because they get 'found out' early on.

And I never experienced the 'rage' - which is when the "I hate you" and everything else comes out. Did anyone experience the person just going into a deep depression?

I'm still questioning whether my guy has BPD... . because not all traits match. The initial and intense "love" came early like everyone else's story... . but nothing after that exactly matches.

[Narellan]

My ex never raged it self harmed. To me he seemed like he had depression but he always said he was so happy and he loved his life. All a coverup. Even after he left me he only painted me grey, never really smeared me.

[LoveLove]

Can self-harm come in different forms? I'm reading a lot about cutting, but are there other activities that they partake in that are risky and they KNOW they are?

I feel as though they are also very calculated in what they say and when they say it... . when your SO's made these statements, was it with an intense look?

[Pecator]

Here is a twist.

I went to my uBpdex's place tonight to visit her kids. I love these boys. I know this will not last, but know it will not last. Her other partners left without ever speaking to her. I am hopeful they learn that all men do not abandon them (but that is another subject).

Of course, being in very LC, she was not there.

While visiting, I jumped on the computer that I left with her to check some stuff. It seemed natural as we lived together for 2+ years.

I noticed she created an Icon for her email... . I couldn't resist

I didn't snoop too much except to do a search for all emails sent from her new object.

In the five months she has been with him, only a week since we were apart, there were only 4 emails (she has a business where she keeps all her emails).

The fourth was very telling and supportive of this thread

He is off on one of his many business trips. They obviously do not communicate by email.

For the first time he emails her saying "Just landed in Hong Kong, "I think of you, I miss you, and I love you."

She responds, " what a sweet little surprises! You are the love of my life baby! XO"

It seams the script includes me.

[corraline]

Mine had an intense look.  He said people were intimidated by his eyes.

My ex gave very contradictory messages.

I don't want any drama

Don't abandon yourself

Take care of YOURSELF

My love for you is more mature

I don't believe in soul mates

I don't like women with lists (what kind of men they want to be in relationship with)

I want a mature woman, there are too many little girls wandering around in womens bodies

Just be with me

creating drama and chaos by lying, behaving cruelly and humiliating me in front of others in public

i love you more than any other woman i have ever been with

i trust you more than... .

you are breaking down my defenses

i want us to live together (pretty much at the start)

very poor boundaries with me and others

withdrawing/silent treatment

calling me very abusive names

sexually objectifying me and other women

its you and me against the world

i am a "protector"

you have never met anyone like me before

i am a vampire

i could go on forever, probably much the same as others but these are just a few.

[Narellan]

Haha I just remembered another one

" I'm a national icon. You're so lucky to be going out with a national icon"

" I'm so much better looking than you are"

These were often said in jest, he always was making me laugh by making these ridiculous statements. He was laughing too. He wasn't serious, just bloody funny.

He also said " I hate labels. Can't it just be what it is" this is after denying we were anything but friends. I was so hurt he said just friends, literally hours after he said other love of his life type stuff.

[LoveLove]

In my case, he thought that *I* was better than he was - so he was insecure. Did anyone else experience this? Again, I'm still trying to figure out if he has BPD.

And did anyone have their SO wBPD talk about marriage and the future early on?

[corraline]

I said some things to him too that im sure he could call a script. ( i can be pretty mama bearish when someone i love is being hurt "protector" ) ( i felt closer to him than i have ever been with anyone and i told him this ) he was always trying to figure out how i behaved or what happened in my previous relationships.   Questioning whether i was the type to abandon first when i got scared to avoid rejection... . sexual questions that he didn't have any business knowing about... . stuff like that.  he was often trying to see if i had any patterns in my ex relationships.  sure i do in some ways.  i am who i am but everyone was different and those relationships had different dynamics and brought out different aspects of myself .

if i didnt remember a detail he would act like i was avoiding the answer.

[Narellan]

Yeah Corraline mine asked me what I'd liked about an ex, I said about his spirit, he was Buddhist and very arty. He never wore shoes. I loved his calm soul.

The next few times exBPD turned up without shoes!

[LoveLove]

Creepy.

So they change into what they think you want... . but when they see they can't maintain it, that's when they bolt.

[Narellan]

They do and say anything so you'll love them. My exBPD took me to a movie that was fairly distressing, and afterward he said " the whole time I was thinking Narellan will hate me for bringing her to see this" so insecure. So wanting to be loved but no sense of self.

[pininterest]

In my case, he thought that *I* was better than he was - so he was insecure. Did anyone else experience this? Again, I'm still trying to figure out if he has BPD.

And did anyone have their SO wBPD talk about marriage and the future early on?

(please correct me if I'm wrong) - but I read somewhere that they're not good at being manipulative (with their words), because they get 'found out' early on.

And I never experienced the 'rage' - which is when the "I hate you" and everything else comes out. Did anyone experience the person just going into a deep depression?

I'm still questioning whether my guy has BPD... . because not all traits match. The initial and intense "love" came early like everyone else's story... . but nothing after that exactly matches.

Lovelove - as people on this site and a psychologist would tell you, you cannot formally say that someone has BPD until he/she is formally diagnosed by a specialist. I believe I was in the same situation as you until recently though. I got some relative comfort from my analysis, readings (through sources such like this website) and conversations held with a psychologist that my ex was very likely to be BPD.

You don't necessarily need to have all the traits. Mine, for example, never showed hate during the relationship or made attempt to harm herself. But she would make me feel responsible for anything going wrong in the relationship.

Like in your case, the intense love was there very early on, with long-term projections clearly signalling a desire to be engaged/married. She also asked me to move in with her (which I did) after 5 months. Like in your case, she was insecure, "not sure about things in her life", abnormally anxious or tense when difficult situations would arise.

One could say this is mere depression. Again, based on what I was told and my personal reading, I don't think it was. The way things crashed in the end (she broke up abruptly, remotely and went completely silent) is not for me the sign of someone just depressed going through a rough time. The greatest difficulty for us is attempting to understand what's going on with some rationale glasses. You just can't.

[LoveLove]

So he KNEW you would hate him for taking you to that movie, yet, he took you anyway?

[Narellan]

No we both wanted to see it " 12 years a slave" just didn't realise it was so brutal. I really loved the movie. I just thought it bizarre that he thought my feelings for him would be swayed by a movie...

[LoveLove]

I see... . so he felt that he had possibly disappointed you (that fear of abandonment probably had kicked in).

[Narellan]

Who knows ? He certainly didn't worry about disappointing me when he replaced me with my friend.

[LoveLove]

Good point. They seem to feel they disappoint their SO's with insignificant things.

[earthgirl]

Very interesting post.  I heard all of these:

"I feel so safe when I'm with you"

"You deserve someone better"

"I love you" one day "I love you but not all the way" the next.

"Your so good to me, your spoiling me"

"I'm attracted to what a great father you are"

"You are so special to me"

"This is the most normal relationship I've ever had"

There's more but I feel like I'm gonna throw up!  Lol!  It's important not to hold onto any of this.

Every.Single.One.Of.These.

Kinda scary, these similarities.

Of course, mine says "mother," Instead of father, as I am female.  


That whole, "I love you, but not all the way" thing.  The first time he said that to me, I was all, "What in the world?" He actually said it slightly differently:  I had "90 percent of his heart.". I'm like, yeah, thanks for quantifying that for me, lemme know when we are up to 99... .  

[Narellan]

Mine had said all the adorations in my first post then dumped me a day later saying we were just friends. I said " but you told me you love me". He got a bit annoyed and replied "Narellan!  I love being with you ... . " At which point I hung up saying I felt sick.

I had just got back from a 5 day interstate " honeymoon" with him and wed never been closer.

[Red Sky]

Two weeks after I met her, my ex asked if it was okay if her mother flew over to meet me. So yeah, talking kind of committed relationship straight away.

Months after I explicitly stated that I did not want a romantic relationship with her, she gave me a birthday present: a style of jewelry which is typically used to commemorate an engagement in her culture. She told me it meant friendship but I'm a silversmith and the meaning didn't escape me... .

[maternal]

In my case, he thought that *I* was better than he was - so he was insecure. Did anyone else experience this? Again, I'm still trying to figure out if he has BPD.

And did anyone have their SO wBPD talk about marriage and the future early on?

My ex had already named our unborn children and he spoke of marriage very, very early on. He said "I love you" alarmingly early and I did not return those words for quite some time later.  He picked out the Villa in Spain that we'd live and planned the garden we'd have... .

He was exceedingly insecure.  We both belong to the same profession and he would constantly tell me "you're better than me"  and "you know more than me."  But in the end, all of his browbeating and lecturing were all to "empower" me and "make me better."  Everything was "The 48 Laws of Power" and "The Art of War" and strategy and chess with him. He always lectured from a place of perceived perfection on his part, despite the fact that he was never happy about his career progression, nor did he have as much confidence in himself as would come across in his speeches. 

[Blimblam]

ok, see the confusing thing for me as the EX SO of a pwBPDw I found both of us saying many of these things I hear you all saying.

-no one understands our connection

-I've never loved anyone like this before

-I'll always love you

etc... a lot of the things I see you posting I found myself saying also. It was mutual.  WHat does it mean?

[Red Sky]

Blimblam have you read this? It's about how BPD romances typically go.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

[DrJones]

Oh God! I wanted to add some from my wife, but you have written them all! I can't believe it (maybe because "I am not a real man" or "I cannot understand it"?)

[Turkish]

Oh God! I wanted to add some from my wife, but you have written them all! I can't believe it (maybe because "I am not a real man" or "I cannot understand it"?)

I got something like this, due to the machismo culture from which my uBPDx hails... . in combination with her American feminist tendencies, which signaled, "I appreciate that you don't try to control me." Alternately, "sometimes you need to take control and say, 'Woman, this is how its going to be!'." Nothing short of confusing 

[BlondeRunner]

WOW! So reading this was eerie!

"You're my rock" was a favourite, also "I'll love you until the end of the Earth", "I'll spend every day of my life making you the happiest girl on Earth", "You give me strength", "You give me a reason to be better" oh and the particularly poetic "I will love you past the end of days, until the sky falls to the Earth and forever after".

Yeah. They were all fairly recent and ... . I am currently blocked on all his social media and haven't heard from him in over two weeks 

It's so weird what you guys say about them copying you. I am a gym bunny, he wasn't and that was fine yet he decided to take out a full blown expensive gym membership and hire a personal trainer! That lasted about 3 months!

[Madison66]

Lots and lots of unhealthy lines from my uBPD/NPD of 3+ years:

"I will never leave you"

"There is nothing wrong with a woman showing her man she is in demand" - repeated response to my objections to her remaining on an online dating site nearly six months in to our r/s and also with flirting with guys right in front of me

"I should be able to say anything to my partner" - repeated response to me objecting to verbal abuse

"I need you to be my rock"

"You can't handle my life" - repeated response when I'd object to the chaos she was attempting to lay on me

"I did it because I love you" - repeated response to me calling her out on obvious emotional blackmail and the last instance of physical abuse

"I've never had these issues in any other r/s" - repeated response when I'd object to her treatment of me

"I only want to share my problems with you" - repeated response to my objection of her vomiting every life issue on to me and not sharing with anyone else

"I feel like sex is the only thing you share with me that you don't share with your daughter" - repeated statement during the r/s when she felt jealous of my daughter

"I hate myself! I hate myself! I hate myself!" - repeated said as she would hit herself on her head with a closed fist

"I'm a horrible girlfriend" - said just about any time I'd bring up an issue or struggle I was having with her behavior

The list goes on and on and on, but the greatest thing is that I no longer have that crap (abuse, unhealthiness, etc.) in my life.  I am in a new r/s with a fantastic lady (non PD).  Anytime she is having an off day, is clingy, hormonal, etc she comes right out almost immediately and says how she feels and that it has nothing to do with me.  She then expresses her appreciation at how kind, understanding and patient I am with her.  WOW - I can't tell you how much of a departure it is to hear this vs what I allowed myself to endure in my previous r/s!

[StayPositive]

Hi maternal/ all,

Interesting that you started this topic.  I thought about this as well many times, and was wondering if BDFs globally use the same phrase. Maybe BDFs exists predominantly in Western countries (I doubt so)?

I started a blog - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=226547.0;topicseen

Stay Positive

[Arminius]

I don't think it's just the men at all.

Some of the things my ex told me (first the good, then the bad):

"You are the greatest man I've ever met."

"I will never give up on you."

"I will love you forever and always."

"I would be lost without you."

'"I have never trusted anyone before like I trust you."

"I feel I can tell you anything."

"I just had this feeling from the start that I could trust you."

"You are my everything."

"I've never felt this way about anyone before."

"I can't believe how much you calm me down."

"We have this incredibly special connection between us."

"You are the greatest blessing I've ever known."

"You are my fairytale prince."

"You are my soulmate."

"Then find someone else normal.  You're not tied down."

"Sorry I've been so distant.  I just need some space.  I hope you can understand."

"I'm not going to see you."

"I just feel so irritable I can't even stand myself."

"It doesn't matter what you say."

"I wish I could be a normal girlfriend."

"I feel awful I can't give you the love you deserve."

"I'm going to f*** up again."

Almost identical in my case too.

[lemon flower]

No we both wanted to see it " 12 years a slave" just didn't realise it was so brutal. I really loved the movie. I just thought it bizarre that he thought my feelings for him would be swayed by a movie...

I recognise this, pwBPD tend to relate all things to them personally as they are so self-centered, and from this same egocentric point of view comes the terrifying uncertainty that their actions, thoughts, ideas might have a wrong effect on the people around them and that it is their responsability solely.

it must be so hard for them to constantly have these inner fights and doubts  

the quotes I constantly hear from my friend are these:

- please remember that I am a good person and ignore my bad persona's

- I'm afraid you will think badly of me now because I did this or this

- I should have acted as a man and protect you- now you probably think I'm a pussy

he constantly projects his own black and white thinking and his incapacity of keeping a consistant image of a person on me, thinking that me too I am not able to remember the good things and that I will base my image of him on whatever bad impression he thinks he left

I tried to explain him so many times that I don't think that way, but he really can't get the picture... .

I wonder if this kind of thinking can be improved by therapy ?

[Red Sky]

I would assume it can be improved with therapy?

My ex had several years of therapy by the time I met her. She was very self-aware about BPD, really, but with the one exception that she couldn't NOT relate anything back to herself. Everything was a reflection on her. I suspect this went for good and bad things. She used to push me to achieve things, and say 'I'm so proud of you' like a parent taking credit for their kid's success. (Incidentally my parents don't believe in saying they are proud of me... . They say 'your success is your own, you worked for it not us.' I heard 'I'm so proud of you' soo much. Drove me crazy.

[GreenMango]

Most people have scripts, or schemas.  Someone with BPD can have schemas like the abandoned child.  It influences how someone sees the world and reacts... . sometimes negatively.  Check out this thread PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.0

There's a specific therapy that focuses on schemas.  Sometimes it is brought up as an alternate or addition to DBT. 

The real irony is that these schemas pair well with people with complementary schemas that can also be pretty destructive.  The personal inventory board has a thread for people to find out their positive and negative schemas.   It's a good way to find out more about yourself and learn ways to have better relationships.

[Red Sky]

That board requires x number of posts doesn't it? I'll be interested (in due time) to find out about myself! My ex had a kind of therapy based on schema and as I said, she was very self-aware about her BPD traits and tendencies and from speaking to her it certainly helped her to control her urges to some extent. But definitely not all the way. She also told me it can knock years off the time in therapy needed for BPD - but she kind of relapsed immediately after being discharged... .

[corraline]

schema

im working through jeffrey youngs reinventing your life book.  Its a great book . Its helping me to understand myself. Lots of tools to help you see where life traps originate from, how they affect you in your past and current life situations and work through shifting them. Its a pretty good book i figure.