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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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zenwexler
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« on: June 23, 2014, 04:12:49 PM »

So I'm over a month now of NC. I'm already starting to play with the idea of wanting to unblock her. This always happens. The first month goes  strong then I get the uncontrollable urge to reach out. And since I have her blocked I have no idea if she has even tried to reach out to me. I'm just starting to go crazy.

I got in a small fight with my mom on the phone and it just triggers me to start thinking that i'm in the wrong. My ex always had a great way of making me feel like I'm the source of the problems even though I know whole heartedly it was her. And now i feel like it was all me. That If I was better, stronger, I wouldn't be alone. I'd be with her. That she left me because I wasn't good enough. And if I was better she never would have left me in the first place and now she's with someone who is calm cool and collected and will give her what she wants and she won't ever leave him. I just feel so low right now. I just feel so weak.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 04:19:59 PM »

Weve all gone through this. Ive only been N/C for a week as we have a son together so I cant be completely N/C. But it hurts thinking she may have moved on and be happy. What I remind myself is that in the beginning I was the cool, calm, collected one and giving her what she wants and by the end of it I was an empty shell, doubting everything I did and all I was worth. That is where the new guy will end up and the one after that. The only ones she wont hurt are the ones that use her and throw her away.

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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 04:38:29 PM »

So I'm over a month now of NC. I'm already starting to play with the idea of wanting to unblock her. This always happens. The first month goes  strong then I get the uncontrollable urge to reach out. And since I have her blocked I have no idea if she has even tried to reach out to me. I'm just starting to go crazy.

All of us have had a version of this... . it is ok to feel crazy... . no need to act crazy by contacting her though.

I got in a small fight with my mom on the phone and it just triggers me to start thinking that i'm in the wrong. My ex always had a great way of making me feel like I'm the source of the problems even though I know whole heartedly it was her. And now i feel like it was all me. That If I was better, stronger, I wouldn't be alone. I'd be with her. That she left me because I wasn't good enough. And if I was better she never would have left me in the first place and now she's with someone who is calm cool and collected and will give her what she wants and she won't ever leave him. I just feel so low right now. I just feel so weak.

Learning our triggers and new ways to respond to them are really important -good job that you recognize the trigger... . that is 1/2 the battle.

Are you currently working with a T on strategies to effectively process these triggers?

I understand feeling like you are the problem, I really felt that way too.  And truth is we all are part of the problem, but in no way are we the real problems. FOO issues trigger this stuff and as we rebuild a real, self worth, these triggers do not happen as much.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 04:47:16 PM »

I got in a small fight with my mom on the phone and it just triggers me to start thinking that i'm in the wrong.

Did your mom validate or invalidate you in your conversation? Throughout my separation I was triggered by my family.  They were not validating. My sister is  the most guilty of this because she is the closest to me but I learned a lot about my family through my failed r/s.

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zenwexler
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 06:06:36 PM »

But it hurts thinking she may have moved on and be happy. What I remind myself is that in the beginning I was the cool, calm, collected one and giving her what she wants and by the end of it I was an empty shell, doubting everything I did and all I was worth. That is where the new guy will end up and the one after that. The only ones she wont hurt are the ones that use her and throw her away.

This is true. I try and remind myself of how calm cool and collected I was. How I always had a smile on my face. But she struck me down so quickly. And then I was no longer that calm cool and collected person. I do take comfort in knowing that the new guy will end up there with me as well. But I do feel like maybe he won't, maybe she respects him and actually meets his needs. Maybe after the disaster of our relationship she has learned and is trying harder. But that's probably just more lies I tell myself.
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Caredverymuch
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 06:27:13 PM »

But it hurts thinking she may have moved on and be happy. What I remind myself is that in the beginning I was the cool, calm, collected one and giving her what she wants and by the end of it I was an empty shell, doubting everything I did and all I was worth. That is where the new guy will end up and the one after that. The only ones she wont hurt are the ones that use her and throw her away.

This is true. I try and remind myself of how calm cool and collected I was. How I always had a smile on my face. But she struck me down so quickly. And then I was no longer that calm cool and collected person. I do take comfort in knowing that the new guy will end up there with me as well. But I do feel like maybe he won't, maybe she respects him and actually meets his needs. Maybe after the disaster of our relationship she has learned and is trying harder. But that's probably just more lies I tell myself.

Do not let your mind go there. No one can replace you. Or any of us. These unsuspecting new partners are as we were. And no one. No substitute will ever change a disordered person. Only a true and wanting commitment to years of therapy could possibly do that for a borderline. Have empathy for the substitution. They will end up feeling like we do if they dont get out sooner than we did. Soothe your mind knowing this new person will not change the disorder.
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 06:43:06 PM »

So I'm over a month now of NC. I'm already starting to play with the idea of wanting to unblock her. This always happens. The first month goes  strong then I get the uncontrollable urge to reach out. And since I have her blocked I have no idea if she has even tried to reach out to me. I'm just starting to go crazy.

I got in a small fight with my mom on the phone and it just triggers me to start thinking that i'm in the wrong. My ex always had a great way of making me feel like I'm the source of the problems even though I know whole heartedly it was her. And now i feel like it was all me. That If I was better, stronger, I wouldn't be alone. I'd be with her. That she left me because I wasn't good enough. And if I was better she never would have left me in the first place and now she's with someone who is calm cool and collected and will give her what she wants and she won't ever leave him. I just feel so low right now. I just feel so weak.

I've been struggling too recently. It always seems so much better looking back. I keep thinking that if I was a truly loving person I wouldn't have been as strict and mean, I maybe would have listened more. I keep thinking that now I know she's BPD I can handle it.

She loves her ex, and is broken hearted that he's dumped her recently. She barely even acknowledged my existence once she left me before vanishing without a trace.

And theres the crux of the matter zen, we know what they are, we feel compassion, but the issue is with us now, why would we go back? It's okay to be tempted, but resist it.

Resist the devil and he shall flee from you. keep it up, all that will follow is pain and suffering if you contact.
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zenwexler
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 09:16:57 PM »

It's funny, for some reason I tell myself oh well she's getting help. She's going to church and yoga. Like that's enough. And then for some reason I try to convince myself maybe she's getting real treatment. But if that was the case she wouldn't have been texting me this whole time. She wouldn't have been as mean and nasty as she was when we did talk. Why do I work so hard to convince myself lies?
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Emelie Emelie
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 09:37:28 PM »

Hey Zen - I don't think church and yoga are enough to fix this one.  I also look back and think i could have done a lot of things differently.  When he attacked me or raged at me and, let's not forget his favorite, dumped me, I reacted very, very poorly.  I attacked right back.  After this last break up I just spewed all of my hurt and anger at him.  In a very unproductive way.  I texted for a good hour.  Would think I was done then I would shoot off another one.  Repeat.  In any case what I'm trying to say is I didn't handle myself perfectly either.  I lost it more than once.  I didn't even recognize myself.  Then again I had never been in a situation like this before.  When we're being hurt that viciously I don't know that any of us handle it well.

I really get myself in trouble when I start "imagining" what he's doing and who he's doing it with.  That he finally realized he does need help and the next woman is going to benefit from it.  Or that he'll care enough about her to get it.  I totally understand that impulse but I also know it makes us crazy.  Sometimes to stop it I'll ask myself, what's going on right now?  The answer is, well, nothing.  I don't know if he's seeking help.  I don't know if he's seeing anyone.  I really don't know anything.  So that's what's going on right now... . nothing.  That may change tomorrow, or the next day, but staying in the moment, taking it one day at a time, really helps me.

 to you.
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 09:39:14 PM »

\Why do I work so hard to convince myself lies?

Our brains want to make sense of it all.   I know mine did, and sometimes still does, even distorting things to "fit" whatever our hearts ache for.  I have this quote taped to my mirror, "It's not what you are experiencing that's important, it's how you relate to it." (Joseph Goldstein)

You will get through this, zen.  Promise.

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zenwexler
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 10:46:03 PM »

That's exactly what I think! That she'll benefit and learn from our relationship and eill care more with this guy. It's so hard not to think that thought. But again. I know it's all BS. She told me she was in love with this one guy from North Carolina but they couldn't be together since she lived in New York so like the next week she's in a relationship with this new guy. Like she did that to the guy she apparently "loved" she's such a mess and is so immature. She really is like a 14 year old and she makes me feel like I'm a mess and am 15 when in reality she is more lost then I'll ever be. Her only chance at a happy life is meeting a guy who can give it to her. Which we all know isn't heathy. I can at least build a life for myself. Even if I am a little lost now.

So should I unblock her at this point?  It's been roughly 40 days.
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 12:12:25 AM »

Lets face it even if our exs get help and treatment they will not come out of the other and as the person we loved who is all better.

They were a mirror to what they thought we wanted. The person we saw what not the real them. The shared interests were your interests not theirs. Everything about your relationship must be brought into question to stop you having a false image of it.

My uBPDexgf has a lot of interests in common with me which I know weren't mirrors of me. Like music. Our CD collections were very similar and that isn't something you can whip up over night. But as for the rest of it who knows what she really liked or disliked. My ex wife on the other had who I believe is Histrionic (thinking could have been BPD though) hated football when she was with me and I wasn't fussed on it either. Her new fiancé loves football and all of a sudden she is an expert who likes nothing more than to watch a game.
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 03:03:15 AM »

And if I was better she never would have left me in the first place and now she's with someone who is calm cool and collected and will give her what she wants and she won't ever leave him.

did you think about her giving HIM what he wants ?
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 09:14:28 AM »

Lets face it even if our exs get help and treatment they will not come out of the other and as the person we loved who is all better.

They were a mirror to what they thought we wanted. The person we saw what not the real them. The shared interests were your interests not theirs. Everything about your relationship must be brought into question to stop you having a false image of it.

We need to radically accept our exes for what it is and detach. Let them go and move on and take of ourselves.
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zenwexler
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 05:49:42 PM »

Well I start to think that she'll give him what he wants. But lies lies and more lies. Ahhh! I work harder on convincing myself lies then practicing radical acceptance. I really do need to just full accept that I was in an extremely abusive and dysfunctional relationship with a disordered girl. It's just so frustrating that I can't just trust myself and let go.   
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2014, 06:33:32 PM »

Well I start to think that she'll give him what he wants. But lies lies and more lies. Ahhh! I work harder on convincing myself lies then practicing radical acceptance. I really do need to just full accept that I was in an extremely abusive and dysfunctional relationship with a disordered girl. It's just so frustrating that I can't just trust myself and let go.   

You're struggling. It's par for the course. We need to not be hard on ourselves. It doesn't matter whom it is, a pwBPD does not have the ability to have a healthy inter-personal relationship due to their dysfunctions. Trusting ourselves and letting go is a process. It takes time to realize that our ex SO's are mentaly ill. It took me some time for that to finally sink in. Radical Acceptance came later.
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2014, 08:35:24 PM »

Weve all gone through this. Ive only been N/C for a week as we have a son together so I cant be completely N/C. But it hurts thinking she may have moved on and be happy. What I remind myself is that in the beginning I was the cool, calm, collected one and giving her what she wants and by the end of it I was an empty shell, doubting everything I did and all I was worth. That is where the new guy will end up and the one after that. The only ones she wont hurt are the ones that use her and throw her away.

Truth written above... .


I was once 'the one' , I still have three years of love letters telling me so! Now I'm an 'ugly little man, I hope you die!' . Yep, they were the last words uttered to me.

The new guy, old enough to be her father, will also eventually be discarded, although now he's 'someone who makes me feel special, something I realise was always missing in our relationship' ... . Hmmm. Maybe I should send her copies of all the scores of letters telling me how special I made her feel! Or the ones saying how much better her life was become of me! And the ones saying how fantastic our sex was!

These creatures should be viewed for what they are. Shells.

She accused me of making her feel like a hooker. Well, I now think of her as one. And it was the cheapest whorehouse in the world, so I guess I shouldn't complain! 
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zenwexler
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2014, 10:26:27 PM »

I know right! She wrote me this huge letter saying how amazing I am and all that. When we were broken up she claimed that she barely loved me which obviously hurt. And I asked her about that letter, which pretty much was her confessing her undying love for me. She freaked out at me and was like I don't want to talk about that letter! She got very aggressive. It really is mindblowing. I still can't get over that we all have such similar stories. But I guess it makes sense when working with disordered people.

And you're right. I really need to focus on accepting that she is incapable of a healthy relationship no matter how long it takes.  I'll just keep needing reminders!
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christoff522
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2014, 07:25:25 AM »

Well I start to think that she'll give him what he wants. But lies lies and more lies. Ahhh! I work harder on convincing myself lies then practicing radical acceptance. I really do need to just full accept that I was in an extremely abusive and dysfunctional relationship with a disordered girl. It's just so frustrating that I can't just trust myself and let go.   

You're struggling. It's par for the course. We need to not be hard on ourselves. It doesn't matter whom it is, a pwBPD does not have the ability to have a healthy inter-personal relationship due to their dysfunctions. Trusting ourselves and letting go is a process. It takes time to realize that our ex SO's are mentaly ill. It took me some time for that to finally sink in. Radical Acceptance came later.

Mutt is dead on here, often it's so easy to just lose the plot and start raging against our xSOs that we forget to realise that we're not the only ones suffering here. The reason the relationship fails isn't because we are bad, but because they have a personality disorder. The holes in their hearts that they hoped we would fill they realise we couldn't fill. They start to feel false, and they hate us for it. These are 5 year olds in adult bodies in many ways "arrested development". Their lives have been filled with abuse, neglect and sadness. BPD is a perpetually broken heart.

Let us all understand that, love them and forgive them, and move on as time progresses - radical acceptance. We all struggle, and it will take time - but thats what therapists, and this forum is here for Smiling (click to insert in post)
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zenwexler
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2014, 07:13:10 PM »

This whole experience really is exhausting. I feel so emotionally numb and fried. Last night I started to reminisce of the good times. I miss her charm, her child like mannerisms. Just laying with her.

Funny because I hated her every single day we hung out. I just have that feeling of you don't know what you had until it's gone syndrome. But I know that can't be true. I know exactly what I had. And I despised it.
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zenwexler
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2014, 07:27:29 PM »

This whole experience really is exhausting. I feel so emotionally numb and fried. Last night I started to reminisce of the good times. I miss her charm, her child like mannerisms. Just laying with her.

Funny because I hated her every single day we hung out. I just have that feeling of you don't know what you had until it's gone syndrome. But I know that can't be true. I know exactly what I had. And I despised it.
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myself
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2014, 08:22:18 PM »

I'm in a similar boat. Letting go of one shore, finding myself on another.

Honesty and acceptance of today are what clear the FOG the most.

We're changing our patterns, withdrawing from addictions. It's very deep.
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2014, 09:08:05 PM »

Zenwexler, child like mannerisms really hit home here. Mine had that going on too. It was endearing  at the time but now I look back and see it as yet another incongruence.

She was being all child like and fin with me, whilst simultaneously ( sometimes literally via email) painting me black to her associates . Note, I didn't say friends. She has none.

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zenwexler
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2014, 10:14:52 PM »

I'll probably post this as it's own thread but any suggestions on how I can finally just accept that there's no possible future with her and move on with my life? 
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LettingGo14
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2014, 11:02:55 PM »

I'll probably post this as it's own thread but any suggestions on how I can finally just accept that there's no possible future with her and move on with my life? 

I read an academic study on repetitive thinking, or rumination, that suggested the quickest resolution (for our brains) is either (a) abandonment, or (b) attainment.   After that, I kept repeating to myself, "abandon hope. abandon hope. abandon hope."

Of course, it's not that easy.  So the academic had another finding.  He said, rather than inquire "why" something did not work out, we might re-frame the question as "how" it did not.  Life is full of paradox, and disappointment, and forks in the road.  Sometimes, we take it personally -- even though, technically, life just happens (i.e., people die young, fail at love, etc).   Asking "why" can keep us stuck, even though our brains default to "why."

There is no "recipe" for moving on.  We can't erase memories, we can only make them less radioactive.   We can't abandon emotions, we can only learn to hold and self-soothe. 

For me, zen, one of the greatest realizations was this:  I did not "lose" the love I had for my ex-girlfriend.  It's still within me.  For a while, I let the darkness of "loss" cloud the sun.  And it was cold and lonely and miserable.  But, like the weather, it changes.   

Our losses can be like deaths.   We have to change habits of thought, slowly and surely, and make our brains less reactive to memories (which only have power as long as we give them power).
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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2014, 07:58:41 AM »

I'll probably post this as it's own thread but any suggestions on how I can finally just accept that there's no possible future with her and move on with my life?  

Firstly, understand that no matter what - it never, ever, would have worked - even if you had of been the best partner you could be, even if you'd of gotten married and had a dozen babies, they would have left you, they would have abused you. This is a total certainty.

Secondly, get to grips with who you are and where you're going as a person. Whats your purpose? Would she have complimented your life path or damaged it? Was she contributing to your growth or stifling it?

Thirdly, Do you feel better or worse? I would say that the only way you could be feeling worse right now, is if the breakup came suddenly out of nowhere during the idealization phase, or if you'd just heard some news that changes the situation for you. Its easy to remember the past in a positive light, because memories allow you to remove the pain you felt in the situation.

If you can come to a conclusion based on these three points-

1. Hopelessness of the situation

2. Stifling of growth

3. Rose-tinted glasses

you'll realise that you COULD NOT POSSIBLY GET BACK WITH HER. To do so would be like slow suicide. Then you will see that the ball is in your court, its under your control. Only you can ensure that there is no future. Make the decision yourself.

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zenwexler
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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2014, 02:57:34 PM »

That was absolutely amazing. Thank you so so so much for that because that was awesome
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christoff522
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« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2014, 05:20:49 PM »

That was absolutely amazing. Thank you so so so much for that because that was awesome

Absolutely no problem Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2014, 07:06:42 PM »

This whole experience really is exhausting. I feel so emotionally numb and fried. Last night I started to reminisce of the good times. I miss her charm, her child like mannerisms. Just laying with her.

Funny because I hated her every single day we hung out. I just have that feeling of you don't know what you had until it's gone syndrome. But I know that can't be true. I know exactly what I had. And I despised it.

Zen, I am brand new to posting on this forum but have been reading it for a while ever since my counselor suggested my awol wife exhibits many traits of BPD. I have to say I feel EXACTLY the same as you... . exactly. I was miserable in my marriage, had nothing in common with her from day 1 (long story but I was emotionally blackmailed in to an arranged marriage with someone I had a crush on years before).  I was recycled once (she even bought a legal novel for her flight back home to me like she did when we were first married to identify with the professional part of my life... . I was touched then and now just find it funny in light of her subsequent behavior). 

Our brief recycling period reminded me of everything I despised. I called her out on stuff, didn't humor her victim status all the time and told her I wasn't going to take a passive waif anymore.  That was 3 months ago. She flew the coop in response, leaving me (once again) to tend to my 3 kids as a full time dad (which I love). And yet I pine for her.

You and I share one truth, if I may be so bold. As my wife told me, I am a grass is greener guy and I only love her when I think I'm losing her. It is why she thinks she can run away for months without repercussions and until now she was right. I may have hid behind the kids and wanting to keep our family in tact but it was also because I didn't want to be the guy that lost his wife. We want what we don't / can't have. I'm literally mourning the loss of a woman who thinks so little of her own kids that she texted one that she was leaving the morning of and called the other from the airport. Does that make sense?

My thinking: your feelings, like mine, have more to do with how you feel about yourself than your time with her.  You said so in so many words.  Have compassion for yourself and figure out why this is and break the cycle. I'm right there with you bro.
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« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2014, 08:52:00 PM »

Zen, what you wrote about despising what you had really rings a bell for me. It's been one of the most helpful things during my weak moments.

We knew all along that it wouldn't work, or at least that they weren't who we really wanted/needed them to be. Everyday was like that for me and we lived together for almost seven years. I constantly wondered why she wouldn't love me properly. Granted, I had no idea what BPD was. I knew about her parents neglect, I knew about her being raped, I knew about her abusive relationships in the past. I became close with her family and I knew these stories to be true. I really convinced myself that she was just helpless and couldn't be blamed for her shortcomings. I loved her anyway, but I always wished she was different. That isn't love and it certainly isn't healthy. I went along with it for far too long, but that was my choice.

Remember those feelings. I know you felt just like I did while in those moments, that you deserve better, that you were good to her and she should appreciate and accommodate you. She didn't though. Her life is about one person, her. To truly give and receive love, you must be mature and capable of such emotions. They simply aren't. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just remember that you weren't happy all along and you wouldn't be happy if you were back in that place now. The heart feels that loss the hardest, but it isn't the loss of her. It's the loss of a connection. You were more connected to her than she was to you, simply because you are capable of such a connection and she isn't. Be proud of yourself and remember that you loved and cared at a deep level, you will again. She won't. There is nothing she can have with anyone else that you haven't had with her first. She is stuck in a cycle of hurt and shallow connections. You are free to love deeply and capable of doing so.
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AimingforMastery
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« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2014, 03:16:40 AM »

This whole experience really is exhausting. I feel so emotionally numb and fried. Last night I started to reminisce of the good times. I miss her charm, her child like mannerisms. Just laying with her.

Funny because I hated her every single day we hung out. I just have that feeling of you don't know what you had until it's gone syndrome. But I know that can't be true. I know exactly what I had. And I despised it.

Stay with the last four words. Why? Because someone who is ill can't give you what you need or deserve... .
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zenwexler
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2014, 04:55:12 PM »

This entire thread became really powerful. I'm blown Way by everything being stated and it's all stuff that I really need to hear. There was always something missing. I did always want more. She never gave me true love except for very small doses. She had me running in circles. She won't ever be happy. She's incapable of mature healthy love. I do miss just having someone because lets face it life is better shared. And she has no true perception of love considering she's been in "love" with four guys in three years.

I just wish I could begin to truly let her go. For good. I still think about her, fantasize about her, and hope for her. Pretty funny considering she drove me absolutely insane and has continuously proven herself to be incapable of pretty much any aspect of life. And I say that from an honest place, not a bitter broken heart. She was capable of such little things. It makes me feel bad for her. Which is why I think I hold on. It's like my baby niece. She's so young, unintelligent, needy, and weak. It's almost cute. But rather then except that she's becomes bratty, mean manipulative, overbearing, exhausting, mean, abusive is tiring. It's hard being a father to soneone you are dating. W

Especially  when they fight you every step of the way. I want a partner. An equal.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2014, 05:17:42 PM »

Zenwexler

You have to understand that you are going cold turkey. This is why NC works best. The less contact you have the quicker the healing process.

Use logic, distraction and anything that will give you a positive lift.

You need to use everything that you can to get over the addiction and it is an addiction.

Get angry use the anger to see how bad it was. Don't wallow in self pity but think F you your not worth it. I wasted all that time and money that I could have used for something meaningful.

Your body is reacting on a chemical level to this so use positive chemicals your body produces to counter it. Play loud music that makes you happy. Sing to it even if your tone deaf like me it helps. Just avoid songs that remind you of them. Put on the F you songs.

Go out and exercise. Not to make you look good to them but for you.

Plan a project or even start one.

At all costs avoid alcohol or other drugs. No-one wants to be the sorry drunk wallowing in self pity and it will only drag out the healing process.

Trust me I have been through it twice. You will feel better. It may take a while but one day you will wake up and not think about them the whole day. Eventually you will look at a picture of them and think "really, She wasn't actually that hot". The veil will be lifted and you can get on with your life without them.
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