Okay, trying the being friends thing

[kc sunshine]

Let's see how it goes! What have been your experiences with trying to be friends with your BPD ex? So far it has been okay, but a couple of red flag things that I have noticed are:

1) it is all centered on her and her need for support/talking etc

2) every once in a while she slips in a devaluing comment-- right now I'm doing okay with depersonalizing it but we'll see

[clydegriffith]

I have to stay somewhat in contact with my BPDx but i wouldnt say we're friends. Whenever we talk i just let her do the talking while i do my best to hold my tounge.

[Mutt]

1) it is all centered on her and her need for support/talking etc Narcissim

2) every once in a while she slips in a devaluing comment-- right now I'm doing okay with depersonalizing it but we'll see

What sort of things is she saying that are devaluing? Is she being waifish?

I'm the same clydegriffith. I'm not friends with my ex, she is the mother of my kids. I don't talk anything personal with her.

[Blimblam]

It was like all the different energies I saw in the relationship but in fast foreward.  Overall very painfull.

[Artimer]

Friendship doesn't work in my opinion. They suck you dry, even when you thought they've done it all, they still manage to suck that bit more out of you.

[tim_tom]

Not to be rude... But why would you want to be friends? These are horribly self centered and manipulative people. I'd rather be friend a snake

[AlwaysForgiving]

Let's see how it goes! What have been your experiences with trying to be friends with your BPD ex? So far it has been okay, but a couple of red flag things that I have noticed are:

1) it is all centered on her and her need for support/talking etc

2) every once in a while she slips in a devaluing comment-- right now I'm doing okay with depersonalizing it but we'll see

Question: Does your ex currently have a bf or gf?

The only time I was somewhat friends with my ex is when she was between supplies. As soon as she got involved with someone else, I was completely shut out.  So, be aware of that... .

And yes, all our conversations were centered around her... .she would ask for advice for dealing with her last bf and totally oblivious to how that may make me feel. She would also find ways to randomly bring up a sexual moment we had or say things like how she's skinnier now than when we were together... .basically would say things to rile me up so she could see if I still wanted her.

So, most likely this friendship thing will come back to bite you... .that's just the way they operate.

[clydegriffith]

You should tread very carefully when it comes to any friendship. BPDs are highly sexual and she will use that to try and get what she wants which right now may be you. Emphasis on the words "right now". Do not feel flattered or tempted or think she's changed. It will only lead to more pain sooner rather than later. Stay away.

I'm not proud to say that i was lured into taking my BPDx numerous times with crazy sex. It's not worth it.

[Rifka]

Hey KC,

I was curious if the walking on eggshells again is in full force again with a friendship only.

Do you feel you can be who you are and say what you want about general things?

If I decided to be friends with my exBPDbf, I know I would have to give up being me again and watch my every word again, hide my happiness, hide anything that I know would trigger him.

None of my friends have ever made me feel like that.

That's not a friendship on my terms, for myself.

Are you compromising anything of yourself to have any type of friendship or any type of relationship with her?

Please tread carefully!

[camuse]

My experience of being friends after the b/u was very similar to most here.

It was probably worse, more damaging and more weird than the actual r/s, and that's saying something.

We tried being friends for 2 months, but it was just awful. We met very regularly, she still said she loved me and couldn't bear to lose me, but each time we met she would remind me how it was all my fault, I had ruined everything, etc etc. I still needed answers, but there were none, and she never apologised or accepted any responsibility. Sometimes she seemed to be enjoying my misery. Whenever I felt a bit better, she got upset, and actually admitted she didn't like seeing me doing better and hated herself for it. She said we could get back together in the future, and gloated about exes who would have her back in an instant. She constantly asked if I was dating anyone new and said she couldn't imagine doing so for years - she still wanted to check my phone to be sure.

After a few weeks, I began to realise I was being strung along here - there were signs of a replacement being groomed, and I started paying close attention to small things - I noticed tiny lies about unimportant things, and realised I had probably swallowed a lot of nonsense from her and was doing so now. We spent a weekend together which was amazing, just like the first idealisation stage, but after sex she wasn't emotional. After that weekend I met her and she had changed totally - she went cold, totally distant. I told her I didn't think we could be friends, and she was distraught. I realised I was being prepared for being cut off as soon as she was ready. I decided for once to take control, to have the final say, and I went NC without notice. She was in a relationship 3 days later. I think I was very lucky to go NC before she was quite ready to go ghost on me. We have never spoken since.


Be very careful - these people see you like they see a can of soda. They drink you dry until they are done, and discard you like trash without a second thought. They don't see you as a person with feelings. Please think hard about how you will feel when she goes NC on you because she has finished setting up the next victim. If I were you I'd consider taking that small final bit of control and being the one to go NC - because she will do it to you when she is ready, and it will hurt like you cannot fathom.

[Whiteytheox72]

DO NOT DO IT! I have lost the last two years of my life being fed table scraps and being drained dry emotionally. You will just become an emotional tampon. Walk away NC with your strength and dignity before its too late. Im speaking from being a friend to the most repulsive vile manipulative incestuous devil behind blue eyes woman since the relationship ceased in june of 2012. Have respect for yourself. What we view as friends is in no way shape or form how they view friendship.  Let her rot in her own self created hell. There are plenty of swinging dicks out there more than willing to fill her "void". You are worth far far far more. Im speaking as a broken devistated fool of a man who tried to be a friend here. DONT DO IT!

[camuse]

Whitey summed it up better than me

I really think being friends can be even worse than being in a r/s with them. They throw crumbs at you, while removing the sex and affection. They lie, use, devalue you, whatever keeps you panting along like a sad puppy.

They have ZERO interest in you or your feelings. Mine wouldn't even let me use her toilet after picking her up when her friend didn't show. Said it would be weird. More like there was evidence of another guy in the house. That was the final moment of clarity, when I sat in my car and thought "what the hell are you doing man, what has happened to you." I realised I was simply being added to the long list of losers discarded but still putting their lives on hold in the pathetic hope she would give them something again one day.

You are man, take this one last chance to salvage your dignity and self respect. Her only aim is to totally destroy you then throw you away. Don't let her - be the one who, in the end, abandons her. Mine told a mutual friend she was destroyed by me going NC. Screw her. The bad part of me is pleased that at the end it was her left high and dry, feeling finally some of the misery she inflicted on me for so long.

Mine didn't even have any friends. Friendship is reciprocal and that didn't suit her.

Think about it, and then go NC - do not explain, just block her in every way and get on with your life. Life is short, do not let her waste one more moment of your time and energy.

[Blimblam]

Some good posts here I think I need to save and look at every single time I think about being friends with my ex. I agree it was like devaluation but even worst.  Like a kid with a magnifying glass killing bugs just sadistic.

What u think it is that they don't respect you because you didn't abandon them. You have to abandon them. They need you to abandon them for anything to make sense.

[tim_tom]

Let's see how it goes! What have been your experiences with trying to be friends with your BPD ex? So far it has been okay, but a couple of red flag things that I have noticed are:

1) it is all centered on her and her need for support/talking etc

2) every once in a while she slips in a devaluing comment-- right now I'm doing okay with depersonalizing it but we'll see

Weren't you the guy who had thrown everything away, blocked her number and were 5 days NC?

[tim_tom]

DO NOT DO IT! I have lost the last two years of my life being fed table scraps and being drained dry emotionally. You will just become an emotional tampon. Walk away NC with your strength and dignity before its too late. Im speaking from being a friend to the most repulsive vile manipulative incestuous devil behind blue eyes woman since the relationship ceased in june of 2012. Have respect for yourself. What we view as friends is in no way shape or form how they view friendship.  Let her rot in her own self created hell. There are plenty of swinging dicks out there more than willing to fill her "void". You are worth far far far more. Im speaking as a broken devistated fool of a man who tried to be a friend here. DONT DO IT!

This this this...

Why be friends with someone who isn't relationship worthy... of any kind...

Do you want to hear about her new boyfriend and how great he is? Cause you will

[HostNoMore]

All of the points made by the prior posters are all 100% valid IMHO.

A one sided friendship is not even a friendship at all. In fact, I consider trying to be friends with a BPD an even more degrading experience for us than being in the relationship if that is even possible.  For the record, I fled from my exBPDgf like a rat off of a sinking ship after I learned what I was up against.  Instead of wasting my time on her, I went out and met another set of real friends and acquaintances that have led to an array of healthy and fun experiences over the past few years.  I also have extremely close friendship with a former ex, but I would never grant that privilege to a toxic sociopath like a BPD.

[Infern0]

To play devils advocate somewhat. ... .

If you are going to try the friends thing,  then try it.

But it has to be a case of shields up, red alert.  That klaxon is going on in my head constantly.

DON'T let them drain you.

You must have reached a certain level of emotional detachment in order for it to work.  Be aware that they might gap it at any moment.

It's not a real friendship is it, you have to be slightly devious yourself.

Also establish boundaries.  I told mine I'm not hearing about my replacement and incredibly she's respected that.  If she starts talking about him I'll just hang up and block her for a few days.

firm but fair. Have some balls on you and just don't tolerate the crap.

Some of them are conditionable to an extent. If you tell them no and stick to it they can learn

Anyway see how it goes but do not revolve your life around them.

[fred6]

To play devils advocate somewhat. ... .

If you are going to try the friends thing,  then try it.

But it has to be a case of shields up, red alert.  That klaxon is going on in my head constantly.

DON'T let them drain you.

You must have reached a certain level of emotional detachment in order for it to work.  Be aware that they might gap it at any moment.

It's not a real friendship is it, you have to be slightly devious yourself.

Also establish boundaries.  I told mine I'm not hearing about my replacement and incredibly she's respected that.  If she starts talking about him I'll just hang up and block her for a few days.

firm but fair. Have some balls on you and just don't tolerate the crap.

Some of them are conditionable to an extent. If you tell them no and stick to it they can learn

Anyway see how it goes but do not revolve your life around them.

Not sure about the OP, but I'm too weak, I don't think that I could do that. I don't need a friend that looks exactly like the woman that I love. Recipe for disaster!

[Blimblam]

To play devils advocate somewhat. ... .

If you are going to try the friends thing,  then try it.

But it has to be a case of shields up, red alert.  That klaxon is going on in my head constantly.

DON'T let them drain you.

You must have reached a certain level of emotional detachment in order for it to work.  Be aware that they might gap it at any moment.

It's not a real friendship is it, you have to be slightly devious yourself.

Also establish boundaries.  I told mine I'm not hearing about my replacement and incredibly she's respected that.  If she starts talking about him I'll just hang up and block her for a few days.

firm but fair. Have some balls on you and just don't tolerate the crap.

Some of them are conditionable to an extent. If you tell them no and stick to it they can learn

Anyway see how it goes but do not revolve your life around them.

Yeah it's possible but the level of detachment you have to get to is like conditioning yourself into an overt narcissist

Unless you have done the healing of getting over the girl which is something to be measured in years if you opened your heart completely

[neverloveagain]

How many times will you fall through the glass before you learn? Me twice never again the end is always the same.

[camuse]

I'm friends with a couple of exes, it's fine. I would never ever speak to my BPD ex again.

Really, when people on here ask if they should be friends with the ex that degraded, humiliated, abused, devalued and ruined them, it's a good chance to save someone - from being ruined all over again, in a way that I think is actually worse.

Why would you want to be friends with someone who couldn't care less about you? Don't do it.

[FoolishMan]

My experience of being friends after the b/u was very similar to most here.

It was probably worse, more damaging and more weird than the actual r/s, and that's saying something.

We tried being friends for 2 months, but it was just awful. We met very regularly, she still said she loved me and couldn't bear to lose me, but each time we met she would remind me how it was all my fault, I had ruined everything, etc etc. I still needed answers, but there were none, and she never apologised or accepted any responsibility. Sometimes she seemed to be enjoying my misery. Whenever I felt a bit better, she got upset, and actually admitted she didn't like seeing me doing better and hated herself for it. She said we could get back together in the future, and gloated about exes who would have her back in an instant. She constantly asked if I was dating anyone new and said she couldn't imagine doing so for years - she still wanted to check my phone to be sure.

After a few weeks, I began to realise I was being strung along here - there were signs of a replacement being groomed, and I started paying close attention to small things - I noticed tiny lies about unimportant things, and realised I had probably swallowed a lot of nonsense from her and was doing so now. We spent a weekend together which was amazing, just like the first idealisation stage, but after sex she wasn't emotional. After that weekend I met her and she had changed totally - she went cold, totally distant. I told her I didn't think we could be friends, and she was distraught. I realised I was being prepared for being cut off as soon as she was ready. I decided for once to take control, to have the final say, and I went NC without notice. She was in a relationship 3 days later. I think I was very lucky to go NC before she was quite ready to go ghost on me. We have never spoken since.


Be very careful - these people see you like they see a can of soda. They drink you dry until they are done, and discard you like trash without a second thought. They don't see you as a person with feelings. Please think hard about how you will feel when she goes NC on you because she has finished setting up the next victim. If I were you I'd consider taking that small final bit of control and being the one to go NC - because she will do it to you when she is ready, and it will hurt like you cannot fathom.

You consistently give great advice in your posts and have been a big help to me during my months of hell. Thank you.

[camuse]

My experience of being friends after the b/u was very similar to most here.

It was probably worse, more damaging and more weird than the actual r/s, and that's saying something.

We tried being friends for 2 months, but it was just awful. We met very regularly, she still said she loved me and couldn't bear to lose me, but each time we met she would remind me how it was all my fault, I had ruined everything, etc etc. I still needed answers, but there were none, and she never apologised or accepted any responsibility. Sometimes she seemed to be enjoying my misery. Whenever I felt a bit better, she got upset, and actually admitted she didn't like seeing me doing better and hated herself for it. She said we could get back together in the future, and gloated about exes who would have her back in an instant. She constantly asked if I was dating anyone new and said she couldn't imagine doing so for years - she still wanted to check my phone to be sure.

After a few weeks, I began to realise I was being strung along here - there were signs of a replacement being groomed, and I started paying close attention to small things - I noticed tiny lies about unimportant things, and realised I had probably swallowed a lot of nonsense from her and was doing so now. We spent a weekend together which was amazing, just like the first idealisation stage, but after sex she wasn't emotional. After that weekend I met her and she had changed totally - she went cold, totally distant. I told her I didn't think we could be friends, and she was distraught. I realised I was being prepared for being cut off as soon as she was ready. I decided for once to take control, to have the final say, and I went NC without notice. She was in a relationship 3 days later. I think I was very lucky to go NC before she was quite ready to go ghost on me. We have never spoken since.


Be very careful - these people see you like they see a can of soda. They drink you dry until they are done, and discard you like trash without a second thought. They don't see you as a person with feelings. Please think hard about how you will feel when she goes NC on you because she has finished setting up the next victim. If I were you I'd consider taking that small final bit of control and being the one to go NC - because she will do it to you when she is ready, and it will hurt like you cannot fathom.

You consistently give great advice in your posts and have been a big help to me during my months of hell. Thank you.

Thank you!

That has made my day   genuinely

[FoolishMan]

Our 'story' is so similar to be eerie, although I notice it a lot here! Really honestly thanks and keep posting and of course enjoying your life.

[drummerboy]

Some great posts in this thread. My overriding memory of my ex is how self absorbed she was, almost every word out of her mouth was about herself. I never really felt that she cared about anyone but her own sad, self created crisis little life. So a friendship with a BPD would consist of being nothing more than someone to listen to her constant drivel. I know mine would never be interested in finding out how I'm doing like a real friend does.

After we split up I noticed that when I talked to my old friends they actually asked me about me, something my ex never did, everything was always about her. It would be the same if we tried to be friends so naaaah!

[mywifecrazy]

Tried to do the friend thing post breakup first on a fake reconciliation attempt (real by me/fake by her) then during divorce proceedings. She was lying and manipulating all along the way. It makes me sick to think of how she acted. Even now when I break no contact (we have kids) I catch her lying all the time. Even lying and manipulating our kids and her own mother.

Friends with that? No Flipping way!

MWC... .

[Duped11years]

Be very careful - these people see you like they see a can of soda. They drink you dry until they are done, and discard you like trash without a second thought. They don't see you as a person with feelings. Please think hard about how you will feel when she goes NC on you because she has finished setting up the next victim. If I were you I'd consider taking that small final bit of control and being the one to go NC - because she will do it to you when she is ready, and it will hurt like you cannot fathom.

Same exact story, tried for two monthe to get closure and try to figure out how to be friends and it was 2 months of hell. It is not possible to be friends with them. During one of her baseless screaming matches, I flipped and said I'm done,  I want her out of my life and we can never be friends. Hung up.  3 weeks ago,  complete NC since.  I left her before she could get her final hurtful action with me,  knowing that makes me stronger everyday.  I read it somewhere on here before, but imagine being friends with her without the sex?  Misery.  Because that idealized wonderful they were was long gone near the end anyway.  

[Perfidy]

Your dog dies. Do you keep it?

[camuse]

Some great posts in this thread. My overriding memory of my ex is how self absorbed she was, almost every word out of her mouth was about herself. I never really felt that she cared about anyone but her own sad, self created crisis little life. So a friendship with a BPD would consist of being nothing more than someone to listen to her constant drivel. I know mine would never be interested in finding out how I'm doing like a real friend does.

After we split up I noticed that when I talked to my old friends they actually asked me about me, something my ex never did, everything was always about her. It would be the same if we tried to be friends so naaaah!

This was one of my moments of clarity during NC. I tried to think of when she had shown any concern for or interest in me, and was shocked to realise there were none!

Her interest in me was limited to ensuring I was isolated from other women.

Whenever I had something to say, she always had a bigger crisis which meant I couldn't discuss my issue. The crisis was normally forgotten about the next day.

These people are totally self-absorbed - they have no choice, so great is their pain.

Since then I've been able to spot the same trait in a couple of "friends" and have stopped bothering with them. Which feels good!

[Blimblam]

Some great posts in this thread. My overriding memory of my ex is how self absorbed she was, almost every word out of her mouth was about herself. I never really felt that she cared about anyone but her own sad, self created crisis little life. So a friendship with a BPD would consist of being nothing more than someone to listen to her constant drivel. I know mine would never be interested in finding out how I'm doing like a real friend does.

After we split up I noticed that when I talked to my old friends they actually asked me about me, something my ex never did, everything was always about her. It would be the same if we tried to be friends so naaaah!

This was one of my moments of clarity during NC. I tried to think of when she had shown any concern for or interest in me, and was shocked to realise there were none!

Her interest in me was limited to ensuring I was isolated from other women.

Whenever I had something to say, she always had a bigger crisis which meant I couldn't discuss my issue. The crisis was normally forgotten about the next day.

These people are totally self-absorbed - they have no choice, so great is their pain.

Since then I've been able to spot the same trait in a couple of "friends" and have stopped bothering with them. Which feels good!

This might have been the case with your BPD ex but not with mine. Early on and somewhat into devaluing my ex was extremely considerate and sentimental to the point it brought me to tears. If you think back to earlier in the rs perhaps the idealizing and clinger phases you may remember moments like this yourself.

The fog makes it difficult to see the whole picture and we ourselves tend to fall into black or white thinking when recounting the rs.

I can only speak for my rs on this matter but we have to remember it may come down to every pwBPD is different and every rs was unique.

[Tater tot]

They don't know how to be a "friend". They may say they want to be friends, but they don't understand the concept of mutual respect, care and concern. I tried being friends with mine, at no point over the course of 5 months, did he ever ask once about me or my life. I care about him and always will, but I care about him from a far. I remind myself that how he treats me says more about him than it does me.

Try it if you feel like you need to, but don't go into it with any expectations, or a friendship that mirrors other friends in your life. You are swimming in an emotionally shallow pool with a pwBPD, if you expect depth when diving in, you'll hit your head and end up getting hurt.

[willtimeheal]

Your dog dies. Do you keep it?

Perfidy... .Straight forward and to the point. I have missed reading your posts!  Glad I came across one!

[maric]

I'd rather be friend a snake

[/quote

LOL

[kc sunshine]

thanks you all for your words of wisdom, caution, and concern! So what I'm hearing from lots of these responses is that when trying to be friends, people end up feeling used and that the relationship is one-sided (where the NON is doing all the giving and the BPD is doing all the taking). I can totally see how that could be. The other sucky thing is the prospect of hearing about the replacement etc. Ugh, I would hate that right now but maybe I'll detach enough through the transition to friendship process (fake it til you make it) that it won't be so bad when it happens (inevitably). And yup, Rifka, I totally still have that walking on eggshells feeling when we're talking about stuff related to my life... .the upside of her narcissism though is that we don't talk about my life stuff that much, so it reduces the eggshell-feeling . She is friends with two of her other exes, so I know it is a possibility for her/with her. We talked tonight and it was okay, though a little tough to get off the phone.

[tim_tom]

The fog makes it difficult to see the whole picture and we ourselves tend to fall into black or white thinking when recounting the rs.

Projective identification?

But seriously, I know she's not all bad and she did many many nice things. But big picture, she's behaved abhorrently and continues to do so. Sure, she's disordered, but that is get out of treating people like crap free card

[tim_tom]

thanks you all for your words of wisdom, caution, and concern! So what I'm hearing from lots of these responses is that when trying to be friends, people end up feeling used and that the relationship is one-sided (where the NON is doing all the giving and the BPD is doing all the taking). I can totally see how that could be. The other sucky thing is the prospect of hearing about the replacement etc. Ugh, I would hate that right now but maybe I'll detach enough through the transition to friendship process (fake it til you make it) that it won't be so bad when it happens (inevitably). And yup, Rifka, I totally still have that walking on eggshells feeling when we're talking about stuff related to my life... .the upside of her narcissism though is that we don't talk about my life stuff that much, so it reduces the eggshell-feeling . She is friends with two of her other exes, so I know it is a possibility for her/with her. We talked tonight and it was okay, though a little tough to get off the phone.

Why do you want to be friends with her?

You are only hurting yourself and going to prolong your misery

[Mutt]

KC,

I don't think there's a right or wrong. Understanding she's a person with feelings and is disordered is fine. You know what you can handle and can't. You know your threshold. If you're indifferent to her behaviors that's understandable. Be careful and avoid the pitfalls.

Look out for your needs first. Don't put her needs first or you're gonna get hurt.

--Mutt

[Perfidy]

Be honest. You want to be more than friends. Sex. That's what you want because it was the best you've ever had. That's how we roll. Then emotion takes over. Bad. Your desire is what is causing your suffering. Very complex. Can't figure it out with a few words and a reply to your post. Complex and complicated. Frustrating. Figure yourself out. Only you can. No one else. You can't figure anyone else but yourself out.

[anxiety5]

Nothing and Nobody will convince you not to be friends with her. Come on guys, we all know that. How many times did we ignore our friends, our family, or just the look on their faces without saying anything yet screaming a look that said "this person is not right for you" We even ignore ourselves. That's why we are here.

That being said, this is really one of those situations where you have to touch the stove to realize it will burn you. No matter what we might say, you will not listen.

I was the exact same way. I even tricked myself into thinking I was somehow in control. Like I had the upper hand.

Your friendship will start off pretty hot. Intense. That's because she's a control freak and gets off on the fact she still has you sitting in her bed naked, yet has no obligation to you whatsoever. That is exciting to her. You take it as going smooth. You can have her back any day now, if you want her. What will happen is she will start doing things like disappearing after 5pm on a Saturday. Her phone will be turned off, and you won't have any way to reach her. All as you were in the middle of trading texts, and things seemed to be one step away from getting back together. Meanwhile, you've been keeping her company on texts as she gets ready for her night out with your replacement or some random person she just met. She will start lying to you because she feels no obligation to tell you the truth, and that alone is so disrespectful and something "Friends" don't do. You will inevitably either have your ego damaged by realizing you are her B or C option, or by the simple fact she lies to YOU in order to make time for SOMEONE ELSE. You will try to fight back, maybe shun her, etc. But you will soon realize she does.not.care. Once you act too clingy one time when she's onto someone else, you are gone. Once you criticize her once for her lying to you, you're gone. Then the major ego hit comes to you. When you realize, SHE COULD NOT POSSIBLY CARE ANY LESS that you are hurting. Intact, she thinks you are pathetic. She is doing stuff with other guys and you are stalking her Facebook or frantically texting her and she doesn't respond. Eventually you'll get fed up and pull away. You will be JUST getting to a point of stability and feeling better and you'll get a text from her. You have a great conversation but she never replies back when you ask to see her sometime. Another victory for her. And another ego hit for you. She will continue doing this, showing up, calling or texting all at the oddest times as if she knows when you are almost over her. And each time you fall for it and it keeps your infatuation towards here always there under the surface. This will continue as long a as you let it. Just watch. If she wanted to be with you she would be. The fact she isn't means she's already decided there isn't anything left from your soul for her to take.

Unless you are a masochist with some cuckold fetish, you are going to end up feeling miserable, discarded like a piece of trash, invalidated, defeated, worthless, shunned and hopeless. That's because you were just played like a drum. Used. Sucked dry.  And the worse you are, the bigger heartbreaker she'll feel like.

You are playing with fire. You'll see. Soon enough.

[drummerboy]

Great post anxiety, brilliant.

If you really want to contact her, tell her you just got diagnosed with an STD and she should get tested. That gets you a victory (her anxiety will go into overdrive) and ensures she won't contact you, win-win!

Nothing and Nobody will convince you not to be friends with her. Come on guys, we all know that. How many times did we ignore our friends, our family, or just the look on their faces without saying anything yet screaming a look that said "this person is not right for you" We even ignore ourselves. That's why we are here.

That being said, this is really one of those situations where you have to touch the stove to realize it will burn you. No matter what we might say, you will not listen.

I was the exact same way. I even tricked myself into thinking I was somehow in control. Like I had the upper hand.

Your friendship will start off pretty hot. Intense. That's because she's a control freak and gets off on the fact she still has you sitting in her bed naked, yet has no obligation to you whatsoever. That is exciting to her. You take it as going smooth. You can have her back any day now, if you want her. What will happen is she will start doing things like disappearing after 5pm on a Saturday. Her phone will be turned off, and you won't have any way to reach her. All as you were in the middle of trading texts, and things seemed to be one step away from getting back together. Meanwhile, you've been keeping her company on texts as she gets ready for her night out with your replacement or some random person she just met. She will start lying to you because she feels no obligation to tell you the truth, and that alone is so disrespectful and something "Friends" don't do. You will inevitably either have your ego damaged by realizing you are her B or C option, or by the simple fact she lies to YOU in order to make time for SOMEONE ELSE. You will try to fight back, maybe shun her, etc. But you will soon realize she does.not.care. Once you act too clingy one time when she's onto someone else, you are gone. Once you criticize her once for her lying to you, you're gone. Then the major ego hit comes to you. When you realize, SHE COULD NOT POSSIBLY CARE ANY LESS that you are hurting. Intact, she thinks you are pathetic. She is doing stuff with other guys and you are stalking her Facebook or frantically texting her and she doesn't respond. Eventually you'll get fed up and pull away. You will be JUST getting to a point of stability and feeling better and you'll get a text from her. You have a great conversation but she never replies back when you ask to see her sometime. Another victory for her. And another ego hit for you. She will continue doing this, showing up, calling or texting all at the oddest times as if she knows when you are almost over her. And each time you fall for it and it keeps your infatuation towards here always there under the surface. This will continue as long a as you let it. Just watch. If she wanted to be with you she would be. The fact she isn't means she's already decided there isn't anything left from your soul for her to take.

Unless you are a masochist with some cuckold fetish, you are going to end up feeling miserable, discarded like a piece of trash, invalidated, defeated, worthless, shunned and hopeless. That's because you were just played like a drum. Used. Sucked dry.  And the worse you are, the bigger heartbreaker she'll feel like.

You are playing with fire. You'll see. Soon enough.

[anxiety5]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD. 

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

[Blimblam]

Nothing and Nobody will convince you not to be friends with her. Come on guys, we all know that. How many times did we ignore our friends, our family, or just the look on their faces without saying anything yet screaming a look that said "this person is not right for you" We even ignore ourselves. That's why we are here.

That being said, this is really one of those situations where you have to touch the stove to realize it will burn you. No matter what we might say, you will not listen.

I was the exact same way. I even tricked myself into thinking I was somehow in control. Like I had the upper hand.

Your friendship will start off pretty hot. Intense. That's because she's a control freak and gets off on the fact she still has you sitting in her bed naked, yet has no obligation to you whatsoever. That is exciting to her. You take it as going smooth. You can have her back any day now, if you want her. What will happen is she will start doing things like disappearing after 5pm on a Saturday. Her phone will be turned off, and you won't have any way to reach her. All as you were in the middle of trading texts, and things seemed to be one step away from getting back together. Meanwhile, you've been keeping her company on texts as she gets ready for her night out with your replacement or some random person she just met. She will start lying to you because she feels no obligation to tell you the truth, and that alone is so disrespectful and something "Friends" don't do. You will inevitably either have your ego damaged by realizing you are her B or C option, or by the simple fact she lies to YOU in order to make time for SOMEONE ELSE. You will try to fight back, maybe shun her, etc. But you will soon realize she does.not.care. Once you act too clingy one time when she's onto someone else, you are gone. Once you criticize her once for her lying to you, you're gone. Then the major ego hit comes to you. When you realize, SHE COULD NOT POSSIBLY CARE ANY LESS that you are hurting. Intact, she thinks you are pathetic. She is doing stuff with other guys and you are stalking her Facebook or frantically texting her and she doesn't respond. Eventually you'll get fed up and pull away. You will be JUST getting to a point of stability and feeling better and you'll get a text from her. You have a great conversation but she never replies back when you ask to see her sometime. Another victory for her. And another ego hit for you. She will continue doing this, showing up, calling or texting all at the oddest times as if she knows when you are almost over her. And each time you fall for it and it keeps your infatuation towards here always there under the surface. This will continue as long a as you let it. Just watch. If she wanted to be with you she would be. The fact she isn't means she's already decided there isn't anything left from your soul for her to take.

Unless you are a masochist with some cuckold fetish, you are going to end up feeling miserable, discarded like a piece of trash, invalidated, defeated, worthless, shunned and hopeless. That's because you were just played like a drum. Used. Sucked dry.  And the worse you are, the bigger heartbreaker she'll feel like.

You are playing with fire. You'll see. Soon enough.

THIS! So much this.  The part of her that once cared about you she took away and is for someone else possibly someone she just met that has an iq of 50.  That part of her you used to adore she gives freely away to strangers while she trash talks you to them. It is a horrible feeling and deep down you know it's true because you can already feel it.

[ReluctantSurvivor]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD. 

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

I need to have this framed and put on my wall.  Thank you.

[Infern0]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD. 

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

Why even bother? 

I mean yeah do all that stuff for you but no need to manipulate a person suffering from MENTAL ILLNESS just to "get back at them"

Just ignore them,  move on if you don't want anything to do with them. Don't bother trying to get "revenge" the world has ALREADY got revenge for you,  she's got a mental illness that means she's never going to have a genuine happy life.

I worry about the people on here sometimes,  I think we can get worse than them at times.

[anxiety5]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD.  

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

Why even bother?  

I mean yeah do all that stuff for you but no need to manipulate a person suffering from MENTAL ILLNESS just to "get back at them"

Just ignore them,  move on if you don't want anything to do with them. Don't bother trying to get "revenge" the world has ALREADY got revenge for you,  she's got a mental illness that means she's never going to have a genuine happy life.

I worry about the people on here sometimes,  I think we can get worse than them at times.

If you read my post, you will clearly see I'm not advocating for revenge. And if you read it in full you would clearly understand that my post is about harnessing the ANGER that is left when someone destroys you the way that it often goes. If there is one undeniable truth, all feelings: pain, agony, despair, grief, sadness, etc all funnel to ANGER eventually. I'm not advocating vengeance in the traditional sense. I'm advocating REDEMPTION. Harnessing all those negative emotions and channeling it to building a better you. And if she comes around again, it's your chance to prove you DID LEARN. By telling her hell no.

[camuse]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD. 

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

This isn't really a win at all, the only way to win is not to play.

I don't think this would even make her want you back anyway, they don't target strong, confident people in the first place.

You are still thinking of them as people you can communicate with, who think in some way similarly to us.

For sure harness your feelings and make something positive from them - many here have done that. But indifference is the goal, what your ex thinks is utterly irrelevant. They will never see you as a good catch or otherwise, everyone is either a suitable mark for supply or not.

[camuse]

Nothing and Nobody will convince you not to be friends with her. Come on guys, we all know that. How many times did we ignore our friends, our family, or just the look on their faces without saying anything yet screaming a look that said "this person is not right for you" We even ignore ourselves. That's why we are here.

That being said, this is really one of those situations where you have to touch the stove to realize it will burn you. No matter what we might say, you will not listen.

I was the exact same way. I even tricked myself into thinking I was somehow in control. Like I had the upper hand.

Your friendship will start off pretty hot. Intense. That's because she's a control freak and gets off on the fact she still has you sitting in her bed naked, yet has no obligation to you whatsoever. That is exciting to her. You take it as going smooth. You can have her back any day now, if you want her. What will happen is she will start doing things like disappearing after 5pm on a Saturday. Her phone will be turned off, and you won't have any way to reach her. All as you were in the middle of trading texts, and things seemed to be one step away from getting back together. Meanwhile, you've been keeping her company on texts as she gets ready for her night out with your replacement or some random person she just met. She will start lying to you because she feels no obligation to tell you the truth, and that alone is so disrespectful and something "Friends" don't do. You will inevitably either have your ego damaged by realizing you are her B or C option, or by the simple fact she lies to YOU in order to make time for SOMEONE ELSE. You will try to fight back, maybe shun her, etc. But you will soon realize she does.not.care. Once you act too clingy one time when she's onto someone else, you are gone. Once you criticize her once for her lying to you, you're gone. Then the major ego hit comes to you. When you realize, SHE COULD NOT POSSIBLY CARE ANY LESS that you are hurting. Intact, she thinks you are pathetic. She is doing stuff with other guys and you are stalking her Facebook or frantically texting her and she doesn't respond. Eventually you'll get fed up and pull away. You will be JUST getting to a point of stability and feeling better and you'll get a text from her. You have a great conversation but she never replies back when you ask to see her sometime. Another victory for her. And another ego hit for you. She will continue doing this, showing up, calling or texting all at the oddest times as if she knows when you are almost over her. And each time you fall for it and it keeps your infatuation towards here always there under the surface. This will continue as long a as you let it. Just watch. If she wanted to be with you she would be. The fact she isn't means she's already decided there isn't anything left from your soul for her to take.

Unless you are a masochist with some cuckold fetish, you are going to end up feeling miserable, discarded like a piece of trash, invalidated, defeated, worthless, shunned and hopeless. That's because you were just played like a drum. Used. Sucked dry.  And the worse you are, the bigger heartbreaker she'll feel like.

You are playing with fire. You'll see. Soon enough.

Brilliant post. Everyone considering being friends should read this. This is exactly what will happen. Don't do it to yourself.

[Blimblam]

I think this thread should be put in the lessons section. Lol

Too many posts on here that should be laminated and kept on the bathroom mirror to be read every morning while detaching.

[goldylamont]

ha ha ha ha. That would be great, except she'd probably buy a billboard and put a sign up with your picture so it was broadcast that you have an STD. 

The sad reality is, there is no way to win. For winning would mean you have a disorder yourself because their splitting, shunning, replacement and recycling are all things normal people don't do.

The best way to get back at her is to harness all your pain and go finish your degree. If you have your degree, get another one, if you have that get a freaking PHD. If you have a good job, work your tail off and get a promotion. Start working out. Run. Get in the best shape of your life. Volunteer, get your name and picture in the paper after you save 11 kittens from being put down by finding them homes. My point is, channel that negative energy into positive change for you. It's a win-win. You become healthier, more confident, happier, a better worker, or an advanced degree. You become a better version of you. Meanwhile these social status gold digging BPD types who are often times infatuated with arbitrary qualities like money, etc starts to realize they may have just dumped the cities most eligible bachelor. A guy who is getting a degree, promotions, doing things in his community, all the while being fit, and looking great. She will start to paint you white again. She will start to think she shouldn't have left. When she comes around again, she will try to get you under her control. She will say she misses you. This is the perfect scenario to say, Thanks. You know, I just want to thank you. Something lit a fire in me the way things went down with us, and I feel like I can conquer the World now. I feel like I can accomplish anything. And after we weren't together, I had the time to realize the only thing stopping me was me. So thank you.

This will eat her alive. It will make her want you.  Her fear that she made the wrong decision will turn to desperation to get you back. And this is your chance to tell her NO.

That's the best end game. It's a win-win, something dating her never once provided you.

Why even bother? 

I mean yeah do all that stuff for you but no need to manipulate a person suffering from MENTAL ILLNESS just to "get back at them"

Just ignore them,  move on if you don't want anything to do with them. Don't bother trying to get "revenge" the world has ALREADY got revenge for you,  she's got a mental illness that means she's never going to have a genuine happy life.

I worry about the people on here sometimes,  I think we can get worse than them at times.

anxiety5, i want to give you a high five followed by a beer :-)

Infern0 I disagree that becoming a better version of yourself, becoming more attractive and then if the opportunity arises, *thanking* your ex for helping you in this regard is great. Personally I think this is the best response I could think of saying if/when I run into my ex. And honestly, I could really care less about her feelings--I would absolutely not want to trigger her if I thought she was suicidal or would harm herself or others. But, seriously she's nutty and might feel jealous or indifferent or whatever regardless of what I do, I don't have any control over her emotions. Unless something I said would make her harm herself, then hell, she *should* be jealous. Man in my case that chick can't even try to act like she's better off now than she was with me--her new bf isn't 'better' by a long stretch, her living situation is worse, her behavior took a humongous nose dive after leaving. Her feeling jealous would be closer to the truth and actually would be a sign of accepting reality in my opinion. At some point, for some of us, i think it's perfectly healthy to not give a darn about petty emotions of our exes... .

Regarding getting revenge--in a way Infern0 do you think that perhaps you keeping in touch with your ex may have something to do with revenge? Perhaps against the replacement since he was such a douche waiting in the wings for your breakup? And by revenge here--aren't we simply talking about reclaiming our own power here? Reclaiming our own power for us, putting ourselves first without consideration for an abuser? It feels like in your situation, getting back together with your ex, perhaps trying to sleep with her again while maintaining a narcissistic level of detachment is a way for you to gain your power back... .without considering what would make her (or 'bilbo baggins' feel good? i could be wrong with this, but can you see anything i've brought up as being a factor in your current friendship?

[icecream]

Saying "yes" to a friendship with a pwBPD is giving them permission to:

-let her flirt online, start of immidiatly with someone else and show how happy she is on fb, kissing with replacement etc... .and they assume you "like" that... after all you are a friend

-if you are totally happy with friendship and nothing more, if you feel you can actually like when she is having a good time with others, without being jealous... .

-she doesnt have to explain why this or that she is doing

-she can leave every conversation without talking things through

-at moments when you start to realize you are okay with all of this... suddenly she start flirting with you again, or bringing up romantic past events between you two... .and then your heart starts to get warm suddenly... .you are still hooked, dreaming, hoping... .because she mentioned: you are her safetynet, you understand her so well... .

She must love you after all, thats what keeps popping in your mind.

Don't make any moves... .after all you are a friend who is not suppose to get hurt by all of her actions!

Up for that? Tried it 2 years and hell i wont sign for it again!

[Infared]

Friends?

Mine would just talk about the relationship that she left me for. That's right, the guy she was cheating on me with and ran off to a week before Christmas, after living with me for 5 years.

WHY would I want to be friends with this person? WHY are they soo self-centered that it is beyond comprehension?

HOW could I have the tiniest bit of self-esteem and want to interact with someone so self-involved and TOTALLY unaware of my feelings?

If you have been through what I have been through and you want to be friends with this creature... .please do yourself a favor... .befriend a therapist first.

Love you. 

[JB8888]

Weird... .I ran into my exBPDgf about 10 minutes ago. It's the second time in a couple weeks, the first she was hammered and very unsettled/unstable which is fine I guess seeing each other first time. This time she was nervous, but seemed quite normal. I wondered if I could be friends with her and essentially, sure - I wouldn't say friends but if I ran into her we could get a drink or something. But I'm not even interested. a) her capacity to devalue, hurt and disregard my feelings terrifies me - I would never risk or endure that again b) She talks on the surface of things OR gets wasted and gets very deep but has idealised opinions of who and how she is to the point my mouth drops because she's none of those things c) she takes takes takes and yes the conversation is centred on her or something that has nothing to do with anything.

Since our breakup 6 months ago I really worked on myself and realised how emotionally rich my life was without her. I went back to my friends (I did isolate when in a r/s with her as she feared my mates - many were onto her). They were supportive and helped me through my pain. Very quickly I realised how much love, genuine interest, shared common goals, shared emotional intelligence I have around me. And how loved and appreciated I am vs. being constantly devalued. There is no more drama! And it's peaceful. And I choose no more drama. There is no fat in my life anymore - and she is the only person in my life who doesn't really know how to be my friend. Her friends are split black every month. She hasn't asked for friendship yet, but I know she will at some point. But she will engage when she wants something, money, access to fun things etc. Looking back I have always been her emotional crutch. I have never been a conscious choice based on anything other than what i can provide and being her "home". And I have always been recycled when she's spun out of control.

Friendship is an exchange and I don't think it's possible to have that consistently. You will get it now and then, but for them to feel better about themselves. Not to just be there for you out of the kindness of their heart. And as soon as replacement comes along, she'll lie and be gone. I watched her do it when I was the replacement. I watched her lie to her friends about where she was. I had her fall off the radar plenty of times.

I don't feel anything. And that's so weird considering I have feared running into her for months and feared my own reaction. Having read this forum it's helped so much to keep my brain on during conversations. To almost just watch her... .She's the same, and still the same 6 years later. Same drama, same blaming other people, same new boss struggling with her. You need to ask yourself why would you be friends with her? What would be the exchange? I'm not missing out on anything - she is. But she made her bed and as they say "I've found the key to happiness. Stay away from idiots". You will lose this battle mate... .the only way to win is to look out for number one and surround yourself with good, kind people. I am best friends with two of my exes (I only have 2 others) and they are beautiful solid friendships. I won't have that with her and if there is any sadness there, it is that realisation. But I can't be who I really am with her. And I pick being me over compromising myself, as the only beneficiary of being friends with her, is her getting some of me. Why do it to yourself? Try it - you clearly have it in you for a last gasp, but if you do keep it distant. But then again, what's the point of that? It's not even real.

[shellbent]

I tried being friends with my ex, she said we could be. However anytime I try ro spend time with her or talk to her she makes excuses. She never initiated ever. Also when I do run into her, she seems nervous or anxious. I could handle hearing things about her life without me, but it is a thousand times worse this way. I don't know how to be her friend, she never says anything unless I ask, and even then she is secretive. So maybe she doesn't want tocause me more pain, I don't know. Anyone have any thoughts on why she is acting this way?

[christoff522]

My experience is it's heartbreak for us, and is simply a situation of them knowing how we feel and keep us at arms length whilst having someone "there for them".

However you can NEVER say you love them, or express any romantic interest without being treated like a naughty toddler.

Don't expect to hang out, just expect to be a saviour whenever she requires it.

When you're at this point, grieve and move on. If theres any chance of salvaging your self-respect thats the only way of doing it.

Part of the issue is that when you're in contact you get weaker and weaker, the BPD sees this and loses respect for you.

If you go NC and move on, if they see you again, they've missed you, they see you're different, they begin to be attracted. Then you get to tell them to take a running jump, or words to that effect.

[In Pain]

I understand all you are saying. And unfortunately agree.

While trying to be friends,  she will most likely say how her new BF treats her so much better than you did, is so much nicer etc.

It you say you are seeing someone now as well... .What effect does this have ?

Jealousy, rage, indifference... .?

I suppose if you are just making it up, they can see through you... .If you really are seeing someone  else, and you sleep with the ex, it makes you no better than them !

[camuse]

Take a look at their other friends - mine had NONE in our city, but raved about her amazing old college mates. But none of them ever bothered to come see her. I met them once, they were just enablers who liked to take drugs with her, and guys hanging round waiting for their turn on her. And she slagged them off behind their backs. They weren't friendly to me. She hated my many friends, mainly the female ones, but didn't like any of them taking my time away from her.

Does your ex have proper friends - people she would help out with anything at the drop of a hat? Or are they just people who are useful to her her?

Mine sometimes asked "What does <insert friend name> bring into your life?" I tried explaining I dont pick my mates according to what I can get out of them, but she didn't get the concept.

They don't really have real friends imo because friendship is a two way process, and they are very much one way people.

[christoff522]

Take a look at their other friends - mine had NONE in our city, but raved about her amazing old college mates. But none of them ever bothered to come see her. I met them once, they were just enablers who liked to take drugs with her, and guys hanging round waiting for their turn on her. And she slagged them off behind their backs. They weren't friendly to me. She hated my many friends, mainly the female ones, but didn't like any of them taking my time away from her.

So true, I guess the only people there for her are her family.

Mine has old school friends, usually guys (they always say "I get on so much better with guys", I'm pretty sure they just wait for their chance, usually ply her with vodka, but most of the males come and go, she always has new guys appearing liking her stuff.

One of her friends apparently slept with her ex. But all her close friends are enablers.

Does your ex have proper friends - people she would help out with anything at the drop of a hat? Or are they just people who are useful to her her?

This I can never be sure of. Would she do anything for them, perhaps only to look good.

Mine sometimes asked "What does <insert friend name> bring into your life?" I tried explaining I dont pick my mates according to what I can get out of them, but she didn't get the concept.

They really don't get this idea, its always facilitation, rather than a sort of homeostasis of emotion and time spent together.

They don't really have real friends imo because friendship is a two way process, and they are very much one way people.

I don't even see it as that, friendship is just, a thing... you care about one another, thats it.

[Mr Hollande]

I understand that my ex had hopes for us being "friends" after the split. Since she so gleefully stomped all over my feelings and sh#t on our 5 years together withholding my friendship was perhaps the last thing I had to hit her back with. Letting her be my friend after what she did would be like kissing the foot that had just kicked me in the face and there is no chance I'd ever do that. I was stupid and weak for 5 years but I've at least managed to retain a shred of dignity by denying her all access to my life from here on.

[Infared]

I understand that my ex had hopes for us being "friends" after the split. Since she so gleefully stomped all over my feelings and sh#t on our 5 years together withholding my friendship was perhaps the last thing I had to hit her back with. Letting her be my friend after what she did would be like kissing the foot that had just kicked me in the face and there is no chance I'd ever do that. I was stupid and weak for 5 years but I've at least managed to retain a shred of dignity by denying her all access to my life from here on.

I have gotten a "little" less angry about it... .but yes... .for me... .that too... .I just can't be friends with someone that treated me so vilely. Not only because "my" self-esteem just can't go there now that my head AND my heart know the truth... .but also because being friends with this person also validates their behavior, big-time.  I would be giving the message: "Yes... you cheated on me, you demeaned me, you were cruel and enjoyed watching me in pain... .you lied to everyone: me, him, your Mom, your Dad, your best friend, your step Mom... your step Dad... .EVERYONE... .and that is ok... no big deal... that behavior is just fine and you should go out and do it again whenever you feel it is necessary because, hey, there just aren't any consequences. Its a WIN/WIN for you." I cannot give that message.

... but getting real... .I don't think not being friends with them will change their behavior at all, most likely.  We are talking about serious mental illness here.

[JB8888]

I agree with infared and Mr. Hollande. Withholding friendship is about the only thing we can do to a) maintain our dignity and b) reiterate that there are consequences to their actions. Being friends or even just simply being there to pick up the pieces only reassures them they can act like the devil and get away with it. It doesn't work like that in our normal friendships... .so how come they get to be the exception? Because the sex was good? Pfff... .had great sex with nons too.

I've learned I can be civil and detached with my ex as we have mutual friends (well, acquaintances - my friends even struggle to be civil with her). But that's as close as she's getting and frankly not having that tension makes my life easier as I hate bad vibes/energy. She thinks she'll end up like how I am with my other exes but she's deluded. They treated me with honesty and respect and kindness always even throughout our breakups. This one went too far... .and call it punishment, maybe it is, but basically i'm not interested in engaging with unhealthy/unstable people. I was about to say "unpredictable" but having read these boards and seeing my ex, she is definitely predictable and if I let her in she will fire missiles at me again for sure. She can't help herself.

[camuse]

Another thing to add, every time I spoke to mine after the b/u she rewrote history a little. All the good times were forgotten instantly, but then gradually she changed the facts in her mind, and eventually implied that I had forced her into sexual things, something so outrageous I pulled her up on it. She had a 'moment' then, where I stood up to her and she disassociated, went silent, knowing she had gone too far. She felt shame. But I knew this was a dangerous path. Especially as a man, you must be cautious - I am sure mine will now be telling people how I beat and abused and maybe even raped her. These are serious accusations. Mine once told me if I hurt her she would call the police and tell them I had child pornography on my computer. It's easy to say, well she's lying, but even the accusation would be enough to seriously disrupt your life - a police investigation, house searched, items seized. Sounds ridiculous? Read the false violence reports on this forum. I laughed at the time, but now I know they are totally capable of any level of vindictiveness - they are genuinely dangerous. Even with nothing to hide, you don't want to incur their wrath. They love the drama, the victim status, but you do not want to be on the receiving end of any such revenge attacks. Get away from them, their ultimate goal is your complete destruction.

[anxiety5]

I told her, I have enough friends. I'm not looking for a friend. I'm looking for what I thought you were. I think a lot of times their narcissistic side thinks you aren't strong, she will just seduce you. It was different for me. I had an ex before her who cheated on me. She was drop dead gorgeous. And she knew that when we broke up, I did not have any contact with her for 7 months. Not one phone call or text. So she KNOWS when I say, I don't want to be your friend, that I mean it.

before breaking up once she said, will you give me another shot sometime in the future? I said, what? if we are both single? She said, no if you are with someone, or whatever too.  This was a great moment for me. It was a chance to put her ego in check and also make her realize I'm NOT the cheating person she made me out to be. (I have NEVER cheated in my life. I don't even talk to other girls when I'm dating someone) I turned to her and said, absolutely not. I don't even know who the person I'll be dating is but I can tell you 100% right now, that I would never do that to her.

This is one of the rare times where that question, and my response went straight to her soul. And it felt good. Especially because it was true.