tried to make amends again, duh

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I reached out to my X, thinking time had passed and maybe we could have a genuine, heartfelt conversation (hope springs eternal).

He responded but again it left my head spinning.  Somehow, in his mind, even though he broke up with me abruptly--he is the victim because I have not died of heartbreak and carried on with my life (dating, socializing).

Has anyone else had their messed-up X act this way?  He seems profoundly hurt and said it made him sick that I was dating.  I did not want to break up, but he refused to reconcile and work through our issues.

Does a huge Double Standard characterize these relationships?  The part that baffles me is his shamelessness about being "jealous" when he didn't even want to be with me.  I *almost* even feel guilty--What the heck is that about?

My friends tell me he is nuts and they are all angry that he has the gall to act hurt... .I want to be angry, but don't seem very good at it.

Did anyone else have an experience like this?  Someone not wanting you or even pretending to want you, but still acting as if you've misbehaved by moving on?

[SickofMe]

I reached out to my X, thinking time had passed and maybe we could have a genuine, heartfelt conversation (hope springs eternal).

He responded but again it left my head spinning.  Somehow, in his mind, even though he broke up with me abruptly--he is the victim because I have not died of heartbreak and carried on with my life (dating, socializing).

Has anyone else had their messed-up X act this way?  He seems profoundly hurt and said it made him sick that I was dating.  I did not want to break up, but he refused to reconcile and work through our issues.

Does a huge Double Standard characterize these relationships?  The part that baffles me is his shamelessness about being "jealous" when he didn't even want to be with me.  I *almost* even feel guilty--What the heck is that about?

My friends tell me he is nuts and they are all angry that he has the gall to act hurt... .I want to be angry, but don't seem very good at it.

Did anyone else have an experience like this?  Someone not wanting you or even pretending to want you, but still acting as if you've misbehaved by moving on?

[Duped11years]

I went through this... .She told me to move on and find happiness because she was needed to. I did something that she made her think i moved on too quickly (in spite of her doing the exact same thing that weekend) and flipped out! Total rage. And in spite of her being the one to initaite that first break up, she accused me of doing it because i spent time with someone else. I guess its "how dare you do what I told you im going to do".   After a horrible two months of her raging and then recycle, I finally had it and told her I needed her out of my life. That was 25 days ago. I see her at a distance, and she is trying to make me jealous, but I have not taken the bait; i refuse to text. And when we do ever touch base again, she will attack me, rage, accuse me, tell me about her sexcapades, and blame me for everything. Granted I made the final move, but her hypocritical hysteria up to that point forced my hand. Finally. Strong enough to put an end to it. They dont want to see us move on, they would rather us be miserable and parked on the back burner while they do whatever they want.

[Mutt]

He responded but again it left my head spinning.  Somehow, in his mind, even though he broke up with me abruptly--he is the victim because I have not died of heartbreak and carried on with my life (dating, socializing).

He's waifish and making himself look like the victim. You also gave Guilt from FOG. He's emotionally blackmailing you with an attempt at trying to trigger feelings of guilt.

[SickofMe]

They dont want to see us move on, they would rather us be miserable and parked on the back burner while they do whatever they want.

Yeah, this is what it feels like!  I started to think that maybe he'd planned all along to reconcile with me after sufficiently punishing me with the stone-walling/silent-treatment and I'd foiled his plan.  Then I thought that is just CRAZY PARANOID.

The man has not been able to say one. single. kind. thing since he discarded me--not even "thanks for the memories" or "it's not you, it's me" () but still feels entitled to be pi$$ed off if I'm moving on.

It's funny how the plot keeps... .thickening.  I have to admit--even though I shouldn't--that I did get a small sense of satisfaction from his reaction.  He admitted to checking my FB and asking friends about me.  My guess is he thought I'd pine and pine and waste away.  Not sure it crossed his mind that with a little time and distance, I'd see how much I WASN'T missing.

Looking back, I see that much of the relationship was riddled with strange double standards that didn't make any sense.  We didn't fight but I think that's because I'm very well-trained, having grown up in this crap and repeating it throughout my adult life.  I have become adept at tiptoeing around land mines.

[SickofMe]

He's waifish and making himself look like the victim. You also gave Guilt from FOG. He's emotionally blackmailing you with an attempt at trying to trigger feelings of guilt.

Well, instead, he got a lecture from me on not expecting people to read his mind if he's unwilling to tell them what he's feeling.  I don't think he was expecting that... .I have been more docile in the past.

He was angry because a mutual friend set me up for a double-date.  He thought that was extremely disrespectful, even though the friend double-checked:  you are the one who broke things off, right?

I did feel worried about his mental state, but not guilty, really.  I've bent over backwards trying to make this breakup amicable (even as the one dumped), and had no success.  Mostly I did this because it's just freakin embarrassing to have such a ridiculous ending, and we have lots of mutual acquaintances and live in the same neighborhood, our kids go to school together.  It's like negotiating with a six-year-old.  We are both well over 40.

[tealduck]

It seems like the exact same thing, she did to me, "Go find someone else, move on" all that manipulative jargon, time and time again.  Not saying I did, because I do love her, however, our most recent break up, she slept w/ someone else then lied about it, and agreed to give "us" one more chance, and then she told the truth.  Then somehow, it became my fault, how can you be with someone for 8 years, and get mad, because I had to go to Paris, and she didn't, she went ape ___, violent, I was the worst person ever, started her rage.  When I got back, she went to Austin, and then came back and everything was getting better, and she had been w/ someone else, which since we were broken up, she felt like why not.  So she had been talking to him, for a while, it makes no sense to say I love you, nut I hate you also.  Then rip everything and everyone you are close to with whatever she feels like saying and taking no accountability or responsibility for what she does.

[SickofMe]

Then rip everything and everyone you are close to with whatever she feels like saying and taking no accountability or responsibility for what she does.

This seems to be a big part of it, doesn't it?  I'm not sure I ever heard my X claim responsibility for any problems in any relationship (friends, family, lovers).  It's always a sad sad story about how somebody mistreated him or let him down.

And I don't think he's faking it--I believe he 100% feels that he has been treated unfairly by everyone he's ever loved.  The lack of introspection is frankly astonishing... .you wouldn't think it'd be possible to be so self-absorbed and yet completely lack insight into one's own behaviors/consequences.

The fog lifts a little more all the time.  He has a many wonderful qualities, but lacks the most important ones for having a successful relationship.

[Mutt]

Well, instead, he got a lecture from me on not expecting people to read his mind if he's unwilling to tell them what he's feeling.  I don't think he was expecting that... .I have been more docile in the past.

You are 100% correct.

It's like negotiating with a 6 year old. BPD is emotional arrested development. He is emotionally immature at the emotional equivalency of a young child.

I understand bending over backwards. I'm sorry but giving lectures to a person that is mentally ill with a distorted belief system is not going to work.

You're coming at this with logic and reason where none exists. His belief system is distorted. BPD is a serious mental illness.

Feelings are facts to pwBPD.

Facts are followed by feelings with you.

I hope that helps.

--Mutt

[SickofMe]

Oh, and a post-script:  He stated he will no longer have "anything to do" with the friend who set me up on a date.  He says he is "fine" with that and proceeded to shred that friend's character.  They have been friends for literally 40 years and their elderly mothers are best friends. :/

If I had any doubts about the "splitting" thing--they were erased by that behavior.  He is enraged that his friend (who lives with my best friend) would find a date for me... .even though HE BROKE UP WITH ME.  And his friend had no idea he would care... .saying, why would he, since he was the one to end things?

That seems very BPD to me.

[SickofMe]

Feelings are facts to pwBPD.

Facts are followed by feelings with you.

I hope that helps.

It does help, thank you.

I don't think I really had any hope that my "lecture" would help.  It was about as close as I could get to anger... .the behavior is maddening, but I still have trouble accessing really angry feelings. 

Plus, it felt better than the "oh my god why are you so angry at me" stuff I had been saying. 

[Blimblam]

You've gotta make amends with yourself.

She can only make a mess.

[tealduck]

Because it always about them, for them, and what have you done for them today. They are the perpetual victim.  They see everyone being a reflection on themselves, and the only accountability they will ever take in their lives, is how you made them look, which really is still all about them.  They see everyone in their lives as an accessory, and they need the constant validation, that they are something special.  I don't know how many time, I have heard my ex and her mother, who is nuts also, talking about the way it made them feel, when someone did something "to them".  They need someone to save them, and when you can't because they beat the ___ out of you for being there, then your life raft is full of holes, and you aren't good enough to save them.  "Oh, look at your life raft, I am not getting in that piece of crap"  Really, you have a hundred time, and you are the one that made it the way it is, however, this time isn't good enough? I have fallen, and still falling for the same crap over and over, it hurts it sucks, and have been programmed by her to keep on doing the same thing in hopes that I can fix it, and the next time will be the last time, because I can change and do everything perfectly to her satisfaction.

[Blimblam]

Because it always about them, for them, and what have you done for them today. They are the perpetual victim.  They see everyone being a reflection on themselves, and the only accountability they will ever take in their lives, is how you made them look, which really is still all about them.  They see everyone in their lives as an accessory, and they need the constant validation, that they are something special.  I don't know how many time, I have heard my ex and her mother, who is nuts also, talking about the way it made them feel, when someone did something "to them".  They need someone to save them, and when you can't because they beat the ___ out of you for being there, then your life raft is full of holes, and you aren't good enough to save them.  "Oh, look at your life raft, I am not getting in that piece of crap"  Really, you have a hundred time, and you are the one that made it the way it is, however, this time isn't good enough? I have fallen, and still falling for the same crap over and over, it hurts it sucks, and have been programmed by her to keep on doing the same thing in hopes that I can fix it, and the next time will be the last time, because I can change and do everything perfectly to her satisfaction.

Was your ex the queen subtype?

[Mutt]

Feelings are facts to pwBPD.

Facts are followed by feelings with you.

I hope that helps.

It does help, thank you.

I don't think I really had any hope that my "lecture" would help.  It was about as close as I could get to anger... .the behavior is maddening, but I still have trouble accessing really angry feelings.  

Plus, it felt better than the "oh my god why are you so angry at me" stuff I had been saying.  

It's OK to feel angry and frustrated. The behavior is confusing and the messages  mixed. You blew off a little steam, it's alright.

Work through your anger.

Read about the disorder to understand why he behaves and thinks the way he does. It helps with putting our reality into it's true context. You must have felt like you were going crazy? Thoughts of that there really could be something wrong with you.

Work through the emotions. Share those emotions and read about BPD.

[SickofMe]

Read about the disorder to understand why he behaves and thinks the way he does. It helps with putting our reality into it's true context. You must have felt like you were going crazy?

The actual relationship wasn't really "crazy-making" but frustrating, and not normal.  We weren't married and didn't live together.  His actions didn't match his words but I'd never have said "personality disorder," probably just "emotionally unavailable."  The relationship was idyllic in some ways, lots of affection and words of love/romance.  It just stayed more or less at that "infatuation" level for the entire time.  2.5 years.  Didn't progress or grow.

It's really all been in the breaking up that I've felt crazy.  Never have I seen someone change so abruptly from adoration to pure hostility.  I feel like I didn't know this man at all, on any level, had absolutely no clue he was capable of being hateful and vindictive.  He has been both and has done a number of really bizarre, harassing/stalking types of things... .which made ZERO sense, sense he was the one to end it!

I just found out that he had heard early on about the "dating" thing and that sorta made it all click, and it's why I contacted him.  His response confirmed my suspicions but still didn't explain the rage/jealousy when he didn't even want to try to work things out.

I'm really pretty okay with it (the breakup), it's been almost three months now and I think the fact we weren't truly intimate has made it easier to deal with.  Not that it doesn't hurt... .it just isn't excruciating.

The post breakup behaviors made me feel afraid for my safety and extremely unsettled.  I think it's stopped now.

[fromheeltoheal]

Somehow, in his mind, even though he broke up with me abruptly--he is the victim because I have not died of heartbreak and carried on with my life (dating, socializing).

He has to be the victim, and has to shirk responsibility, everything has to be your fault, otherwise he would melt into a puddle of shame; borderlines feel deep shame, always, and need to off that on someone else with blame.

Does a huge Double Standard characterize these relationships?

Borderlines need to be in control of the relationship, always, although that control manifests in different ways.  It's the only way they can tolerate the push/pull, enmeshment/abandonment dance and make the relationship somewhat sustainable.

I *almost* even feel guilty--What the heck is that about?

Great question.  Some of it is probably when we get blamed for everything all the time, and buy into it a little to keep the peace in the relationship, we start to believe it.  Another part might be a predisposition to feel guilty on our part; great opportunity to use the pain of the breakup as motivation to dig there.

My friends tell me he is nuts and they are all angry that he has the gall to act hurt... .I want to be angry, but don't seem very good at it.

Anger is a stage of grieving, and you might go through it, maybe not, but never say never as you come out of the fog and get your feet on the ground.  For me anger was the good news: when I got done being pissed at her, it snowballed into the rest of my life, some folks had it coming believe me, and it ended up being long-buried and denied anger that was a long time coming, and I now look at it as the main gift of the relationship.

Take care of you!

[fromheeltoheal]

Sorry, on a roll... .

The relationship was idyllic in some ways, lots of affection and words of love/romance.  It just stayed more or less at that "infatuation" level for the entire time.  2.5 years.  :)idn't progress or grow. It's really all been in the breaking up that I've felt crazy.

Sounds like a long idealization phase and a short devaluation phase, so you were fortunate.  And if he does exhibit significant traits of the disorder, it couldn't have grown, since borderlines are emotionally arrested, and incapable of an adult relationship.

Never have I seen someone change so abruptly from adoration to pure hostility.

Black and white, all or nothing thinking, another trait, compounded by the shame he probably felt because you were moving on, so all the crap needs to land on you, too intense for him to deal with as his.

The post breakup behaviors made me feel afraid for my safety and extremely unsettled.  I think it's stopped now.

Yep, it can get scary and dangerous; I'm glad you think it's stopped.  Sounds like you spoke your mind, and if it was a purging of things you had to say, then that's good, and an aid in letting go.  Probably not a good idea to talk anymore though, yes?

[SickofMe]

Probably not a good idea to talk anymore though, yes?

Yeah. I know it's time to really let it go.

It pains me to think of his pain, even though I'm left with a pile of emotional crap to excavate and feel I was exploited.

There is something so deeply disturbing about seeing someone I loved (or thought I did--that's another problem with this, makes me feel like the whole thing was a charade) shape shift into this ugly, lashing-out, incapable of acting like a human, hate-filled creature.

I knew he was emotional and a bit dark... .but I thought it was depression and life stresses.  It is heartbreaking to think of someone being so wonderful and damaged at the same time.

It really does feel like grieving a death because the person I thought he was no longer exists. I guess that person never did.