Exploring N/C

[Aussie JJ]

I said that I would post some of that I went through with processing everything throughout trying to understand what was happening.  I will add bits as I go along to sort of explore it piece by piece, here goes!:

NO CONTACT:

First attempt I lasted less than a week.  It didn’t take off. 

Second attempt I lasted even less time, I thought I can still fix this! 

Third time around I was full of enthusiasm, three weeks in, I was full of fear. 

Forth I was angry because it hurt so much, why didn’t she feel this pain? 

I tried to reconcile, tried to reach out to fix up all our issues.  I felt pain like never before. 

Then I started to do the workshops, understand my pain.  Accept my pain.  Work through my fears, anxieties and that horrible pain.  The fifth time, I actually did the work as opposed to looking for an out of the box solution. 

130 days later.  I understand it isn’t NO CONTACT that set me free, it was understanding myself, my motivations and some really hard work. 

On the right hand side of this page is a little tab explaining the the five stages of detachment.  I actually had a print out of each of these little tabs along with a print out of this article I carried around. 

I felt totally decimated, I insecure and unsure with what I was doing as it was against everything I had done previously.  I actually acknowledged that I felt had these feelings, I felt a bit overwhelmed by it all and my word was I afraid.  Instead of denying these feelings as I had done the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th times I tried N/C (L/C for me, we have a son) I followed advice from different members on the boards.  I got told it was ok to not know why I was feeling like this, I got little baby steps laid out for me from a few people with helping me understand it all.  I slowly put it together, I did the work to understand. 

"I sense that a lot of your anger comes from expecting her to be someone she is not. Can you accept that she is who she is?" 

The above quote is from this topic, with this one line from Turkish along with a few others at the time had a profound effect on me.  From this I wrote down different things that were hurting, causing me to feel so angry, lost, confused, sad, WHAT was making me feel like this instead of WHY do I feel like this.  I looked at the five stages of detachment and also the different workshops (really don’t hold back on reading and trying to understand the workshops.  They are a great resource).  I put it together piece by piece and started to work on ME instead of ruminating about her. 

What is driving your anger/despair/sorrow/greif at the moment.  For you what is making this so hard for you at present?


AJJ. 

[vortex of confusion]

What is driving your anger/despair/sorrow/greif at the moment.  For you what is making this so hard for you at present?

Thank you so much for starting this thread!

I feel like I am bouncing around in the Five Stages. I started out on the Staying Boards but it became pretty obvious to me after a while that I cannot be in a relationship with my husband in the long term and be happy. I think I have known this at some level for most of our marriage but buried those feelings. If I am brutally honest with myself, I don't like who my husband is as a person. He values things that make absolutely no sense to me and I know that I value things that he does not understand either. That is very difficult for me to admit. I think I have stayed so long because I was afraid to fail. I hate failure. Plus, I am the only one of my siblings that got married and had kids. Both of my sisters got pregnant and had kids when they were in their teens. One sister finally married a couple of years ago after her daughter was grown. My brother married his first wife because she was pregnant. Basically, all of my siblings failed in the relationship department for the most part. I didn't want to be like them. I saw how their kids struggled growing up in a single parent house. I saw them struggle not having a dad around. I spent a lot of time with those kids and I babysat and helped my sisters a lot back in the day. One of my biggest fears is being a single parent.

The failed relationships of my siblings sits against a backdrop of my parents who have been married for almost 47 years. Their relationship is dysfunctional as can be. My in laws were married for almost 50 years before my FIL passed away. My MIL actually told me one time that she preferred that her husband look at porn so he wouldn't mess with her. I don't want what my parents or his parents have either. As I get older, my fear of being a single parent has dissipated a little but now my biggest fear is growing old and being like my mother who is in an unhappy and dysfunctional relationship. She is miserable and unhappy and is probably BPD (or something). My dad and I have joked that my husband and my mother are a lot a like in their behaviors. So, I have to fight the feelings of, "If my dad can stick it out, so can I." My dad has made the comment that if you leave on partner then there is a good chance that you might find something worse. I go back and forth on how I feel about that comment. He did cheat on my mother with a looney woman that called me repeatedly one night just to tell me that my dad is a cross dresser. (Okay, whatever.)

Also, I think there has been a basic lack of compatibility between my husband and I (with or without BPD or any other problem). I think most of what makes all of this so hard at present is simply coming to terms with my own feelings of being a failure. I am finally allowing myself to think and feel things that I have stuffed down in order to maintain the marriage. The logical realist in me is battling with the idealistic dreamer. The logical realist in me knows that this relationship won't work. I am exhausted and cannot do this for the rest of my life. The idealistic dreamer in me has some small hope that maybe my husband will wake up one day and not be who he is but be the man that I want and need him to be.

And, it is also difficult for me because I can't make things happen quicker. I am getting impatient because I feel like I am finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I want to hurry up and feel and process and move on but I can't because it takes times. It took 16 or so years to create this mess between us so it is going take a while for me to untangle myself. It is very difficult for me to focus on myself so much. It feels selfish to me and being selfish is something that annoys me.

[Aussie JJ]

I feel like I am bouncing around in the Five Stages. I started out on the Staying Boards but it became pretty obvious to me after a while that I cannot be in a relationship with my husband in the long term and be happy. I think I have known this at some level for most of our marriage but buried those feelings.

I still move between them, constantly, still do as I process it all.  Acknowledging new aspects that I find about my behaviour, exploring why I behave like this, why I accept these unhealthy actions of others.  Starting to do something to change those behaviours I have, creative action!  Change isnt a easy thing it takes time, nothing to be ashamed of or scared to admit.  It is a hard process opening up and confronting our feelings. 

The failed relationships of my siblings sits against a backdrop of my parents who have been married for almost 47 years. Their relationship is dysfunctional as can be.

Their is a bit of a theame amongst many people on here, trying to understand our own FOO issues and process the behaviours we learnt from our parents.  I learnt from my mum (some BPD and predominantly NPD traits) that love is control, the same thing my exBPDgf had as love, controlling behaviour driven by fear.  I accepted it, enabled it as I learnt it from seeing my fathers interactions with my mother growing up and still see it today.   

And, it is also difficult for me because I can't make things happen quicker. I am getting impatient because I feel like I am finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I want to hurry up and feel and process and move on but I can't because it takes times. It took 16 or so years to create this mess between us so it is going take a while for me to untangle myself.

It's going to take the rest of our life for us to work through and resolve the issues as they come up, that is a healthy thing to do, work through those issues.  Rome wasn't built in a day, and our lives are not dictated by one relationship, making a choice to change for our own mental health is a good thing.  Understanding for me that 'untangling' myself is really about being who I am and being happy in my own skin as opposed to being dominated. 

It is very difficult for me to focus on myself so much. It feels selfish to me and being selfish is something that annoys me. 

I can relate soo much to this as many others here can.  I try to still be as respectful as I can however also just be that little bit selfish.  It's a healthy thing at the end of the day.  51/49 rule is how it was explained to me.  Respect other people however always respect yourself just that little bit more, respect your values, your beleifs and uphold them.  If doign that is unhealthy, I am happy to be called unhealthy by others that dont respect me.   

Thank you so much for starting this thread!

Thankyou for jumping in.  It helps me a lot learning from others experiences and finding out what has worked for them as well.  Prior to this I have never really opened up about it all, those touchy feally things however opening up has freed me from having to conform to others expectations. 


AJJ. 

[ziniztar]

What is driving your anger/despair/sorrow/greif at the moment.  For you what is making this so hard for you at present?

My grief lies in the fact he did therapy for 2 years and he had to quit because he blocked. He doesn't want to quit therapy, but realizes there is no use in going there if it's not helping him anymore.

I'm grieving that for some reason, although he wants to, he is blocked. I feel sorry for him because I know and see how much he wants to be normal. He was able to discuss these things with me.

I am grieving that I have to accept he probably won't get any better than this. And that that meant I had to draw a line and leave him.

I am sure this was a good decision for now. I do hope he'll wake up for some reason and this whole experience will make him move past whatever his blockage is. I'm in pain of that insecurity right now. Don't know how to deal with it.

[Aussie JJ]

My grief lies in the fact he did therapy for 2 years and he had to quit because he blocked.

Mine did therapy without me knowing about it then left therapy.  We did two sessions of couples counselling and it was all my fault at that point in time, I couldn't go back to it as it was a venue for her to attack me.      Me, being me, tried to work through it, soldier on and persist.  It killed me that whenever I tried to help I got shutdown, whenever I reached out I got told I didn't have to, I had to do XYZ to fix my problems.  She thought she was my solution and constantly changed the goal posts on what I had to do to fix my issues when I questioned her logic she had studied psychology, she knew best... . 

Now that I have stepped back a bit, understanding it, wanting to 'save' her still but knowing I can't.  Take it all on and be that rescueer is what I have always tried to do.  Now understanding it isnt my responsibility and I can't play that role, only save myself. 

I'm in pain of that insecurity right now. Don't know how to deal with it.

I think acknowledging this, that we dont know how to, that is one of the hardest things I had to come to grips with, that I didnt know what was happening and how to process it.  That was when it started to get easier with asking for help.  I stopped reading books on BPD and her problems and started reading stuff on how to help my own meltal health. 

Workshops: Radical Acceptance

For me one lesson that helped with this aspect is trying to just accept it.  The workshop above is helpful and some of the comments I have found very insightful from members posting in the thread.  It is one of the hardest things to accept that we cant help someone we care about so much, we can't solve their problems no matter how strong our own resolve is.   :'(  One of the reason's Turkish's quote really moved me so much.  I was expecting her to be someone she isn't, that hurt the most for me. 


AJJ. 

[vortex of confusion]

I was expecting her to be someone she isn't, that hurt the most for me. 

This made me think of something else that I have recently been trying to do and thinking about.

I have tried to acknowledge that HE was expecting me to be somebody I wasn't. He was expecting me to be super human. He was expecting me to be his rock and his stability. I can't be those things no matter how hard I try. No matter how hard I try, I will never be the person that he wants or needs.

I was having a discussion with him about some of the stuff that happened early in our relationship. He tried to defend himself and explain. I had a moment of clarity and told him, "I am not really concerned with what you did or why you did it. I am more concerned with how I felt and reacted and how it impacted ME."

In my head, I am trying figure out how to rephrase everything so that it focuses on me and my feelings and my reactions and why I allowed certain things to continue.

[kc sunshine]

Thanks so much for starting this thread Aussie! Those workshops sound good-- where did you find them? In the personal inventory section?

Was it important for you to be NC as you moved into the workshops? I'm on day 10 (the longest we've ever gone) and I'm struggling with it, tempted to contact, send her a letter, seek reconciliation.

[Aussie JJ]

In my head, I am trying figure out how to rephrase everything so that it focuses on me and my feelings and my reactions and why I allowed certain things to continue.

It's hard to figure this out, for me I often found myself in the position of being constantly on the backfoot giving in to irational demands and constantly having my needs, basic simple ones devalued.  The whole time the way I was spoken to I can now look back and say, "Why did I accept those different ways she was demeaning my character and worth?"  20/20 hindsight is a sucker here, I know I'll never be like that again.  

Somethign that helped me a lot here was some of the reading on assertiveness skills and also the BIFF communications techniques.  Basically ways to express your feelings and also not get tangled up in the circular conversations that we all are too aware of.  

TOOLS: Being Assertive in a Healthy Way (DBT Skill)



TOOLS: Responding to hostile email

Ironically the assertiveness skills are those that are taught in DBT to assist pwBPD to get across there perspectives and be more articulate, they work for us as well!  These same communication techniques allow us to respect our boundarys and communicate our needs in a respectful way.  In every situation in life they are helpful.  The BIFF technique is really good for e-mail but also in conversation.  Ther was one website that i cant find at the moment that had it being used with examples in every day conversation as opposed to e-mails.  

Hope you dont mind me linking to the articles along the way.  I'm trying to explore what worked for me as well.  I still have a lot to learn however what I have learnt so far, it is helpful for me to explain it, re-read it myself fairly often and make sure i re-enforce those different things I have learnt that do help me in getting my needs across and making me happier with my choices.  

*off to read article again, *


AJJ.  

[Aussie JJ]

Thanks so much for starting this thread Aussie! Those workshops sound good-- where did you find them? In the personal inventory section?

hehehe,

kc sunshine,

By the end of this I am hoping to link a lot of different things I have been using and learning from this site and externally.  My library on BPD/parenting/mental & self help topics has grown from one book that I purchased at the op shop 5-6 years ago for $1- (I remember it as it is still a favourite of mine) to in excess of $2000- worth of books on it all.  There is so much more that I have read from the local library as well and returned then bought a copy of the stuff that really really helped me, I have my own card for the one of thelocal universitys so I can borrow books from there as well.  

I have always been very analytical in nature, learning by doing and also knowing every bloody detail that I can.  A bit of a perfectionist with work, having very high expectations with what I should be able to do and also now myself recognising some of my own deficiencies and working through them.  Realising I am not perfect and that is ok.  

A quick link to all of these topics however is here in the workshops sub section of the forum, I will try to be specific with what I'm linking depending on what were talking about.  Keep it relevant to the different scenarios that were going through.  Feel free to explore it yourself however, apply the lessons to your own experiences.  

I also ask that you guys and girls do the same thing.  I have learnt the most through others sharing their experiences and stratergies for the stressful situations we all find ourselves in.  People talking about how they cope, what they have been through has allowed me to open up more than anything else and come to terms with it all.  

Was it important for you to be NC as you moved into the workshops? I'm on day 10 (the longest we've ever gone) and I'm struggling with it, tempted to contact, send her a letter, seek reconciliation.

To be honest.  Something I have realised and this was the hardest thing for me to acknowledge and accept was that NC wasnt the solution it was just another tool that I had to utilise for myself to give me space and time to start to work on myself.  

130 days later.  I understand it isn’t NO CONTACT that set me free, it was understanding myself, my motivations and some really hard work.

For me, What I am going through here with the different aspects of processing my emotions is what set me free.  NC was something that gave me the time to concentrate on myself.  There are different ways to process the pain, denial works for a lot of us temporarily.  Working through it however, how to explain?  I'll give 2 different stories about pain that I got off my psychologist.  

I cant give his details out, these are not mine however they are a bit like that gem Turkish had with his psychologist.  Not my stories but very moving when you sit back and look at someone elses perspective or paraphrase it.  

My P deals with C-PTSD, Trauma predominantly is his speciality.  :)ealing with people that have been through traumatic experiences and helping them understand and process those experiences.  You have been through a traumatic experience, this is what he kept telling me, an abusive relationship.  At first I didnt understand until I started to process it all and I learnt the toos to understand my motivations.  Here are two of the examples he paraphrased for me with slight details changed to make it less obvious.  

Think of pain from this perspective, not yours but think of it from a woman going through the process of growing a child in her womb and then giving birth.  Having a child grow inside of her, develop, grow and labour for hours, screaming, agony, stress, PAIN.  Why do we do it.  Why do we get our partners pregnant to experience that pain, why do they allow us to get them pregnant and why do they look forward to it?

*SILENCE*

At the end of that pain the reward is a new life, the gift for working through that pain is a new life.

My P talking to me... .

I will tell you about one where I learnt a huge amount from someone else, a volenteer who had a better outlook on what he was experiencing and put it more eliquantly than I ever could have.  I deal with this every day remember that, I learnt more from him in a 25 minute conversation than I have in weeks working with other people, months even.  

Dealing with a natural disaster site I was there working as a volenteer helping counseler the family that were victims of this disaster and also the workers.  About 10 days afterwards it was body recoveries.  Not rescue but recovery.  

I sat with one man who I met a few years prior at a similar natural disaster and again he was quite up beat, he was keeping everyone motivated.  I talked to him and had the following conversation;

You have a young family how are they going?  

Good he replied.  

How do they cope with you being away for 2 weeks doing this work?  

Doing well, I talk to them every morning before school and again after dinner before bed time, they know their dad has to work.  

I then asked him how he does it how he copes with it, retreiving dead bodies informing mothers and fathers that their sons are dead.  Telling them details when they ask, how he gets the bodies after 10 days when they are bloated and disfigured into the bags, How do you cope with it, how do you get up the next day, how do you bounce back from what you excperience here and still go on.  

The volenteer worker smilled at him in a mischivous way and said, I never bounce back.  

What do you mean, you dont bounce back, what do you do then?  

I bounce forward, if I can deal with this today and survive it, if I can deal with the pain that I experience here, how much stronger am I the next day?  You dont bounce back you bounce forward and grow stronger from it.  Thats how I do it.

If you think of those two scenarios and look at it from a different perspective.  This pain is a growth experience, an opportunity for a new begening, a new life.  

Next question for you kc sunshine, I had to ask this of myself as well.  What do you want at the end of working through this?  What does your new life entail, how do you want to bounce forward?


AJJ.  

[Aussie JJ]

Just a bit further for everyone, some more thoughts about this topic.  This is froma  few other threads going at the moment as well. 

We all ask, WILL they, WHY do they, WHAT if they….  All about our exBPD partners. 

Sort of a continuous loop of ruminating about the past, letting our ex partners rent space in our heads.  It isn't healthy for us and I had to make an effort to reframe our thought process.  Some of the members were talking about using there wise mind as opposed to logical or emotional mind to make decisions.  This I didn't understand at first and ended up taking a while for me to put it all together. 

Changing it all from WHY does exBPD, WHAT if exBPD, WILL exBPD.  It was laid out to me fairly straight up that I wasn’t concerned about myself, I needed to start taking care of myself.  It was like I needed permission to stop being concerned for her?

Does anyone else resonate with needing permission to not be concerned for their ex?


AJJ. 

[vortex of confusion]

Does anyone else resonate with needing permission to not be concerned for their ex?

Yes, yes, yes! This resonates very loudly with me. I posted a new thread today about feeling rejected and taking things personally. Here is a paragraph from my response on that thread:

"I am sick and tired of trying to understand him and his point of view. I am sick and tired of all of the emphasis on him and whatever it is he has and how he is or isn't feeling. Why can't I say "I felt rejected because of how he treated me?" without having other people try to justify his actions. Why can't I say, "I find his actions deplorable, insensitive, rude, and just plain thoughtless" without somebody pointing out that he has a mental problem and that is the nature of his condition. I don't give a rat's a$$ what he was truly thinking or feeling. I don't give a rat's a$$ that he is wounded and hurt and blah, blah, blah. I am hurt and I am wounded. I am trying to have a relationship with myself, not him."

It seems that a lot of people are focusing on the hows and whys and understanding. How can I take care of myself and feel my feelings and figure out what the heck is going on in my own head if people keep bringing up BPD or mental illness or the woundedness of the partner? I feel like that sets me back but at the same time it can be easier to focus on him instead of me. Lots of conflicting feelings around being concerned for him. I sometimes think that being given permission to focus on myself instead of being concerned for him would be helpful, especially if I got reassurance that it isn't selfish or self centered or mean.

[Deeno02]

Just a bit further for everyone, some more thoughts about this topic.  This is froma  few other threads going at the moment as well. 

We all ask, WILL they, WHY do they, WHAT if they….  All about our exBPD partners. 

Sort of a continuous loop of ruminating about the past, letting our ex partners rent space in our heads.  It isn't healthy for us and I had to make an effort to reframe our thought process.  Some of the members were talking about using there wise mind as opposed to logical or emotional mind to make decisions.  This I didn't understand at first and ended up taking a while for me to put it all together. 

Changing it all from WHY does exBPD, WHAT if exBPD, WILL exBPD.  It was laid out to me fairly straight up that I wasn’t concerned about myself, I needed to start taking care of myself.  It was like I needed permission to stop being concerned for her?

Does anyone else resonate with needing permission to not be concerned for their ex?


AJJ. 

I dont need permission for Sh*t when it comes to her. She made a choice. She has to live with it. I dont, even though it hurts like hell and will for sometime. As someone in another thread put it "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". 2 months in now and Ive given up on the why part, I'll never know why she did what she did.

[Aussie JJ]

I don't need permission for Sh*t when it comes to her. She made a choice. She has to live with it. I dont, even though it hurts like hell and will for sometime. As someone in another thread put it "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". 2 months in now and I've given up on the why part, I'll never know why she did what she did.

100 % correct.  A lot of us get stuck on this point though.  Floating along the scale moving between amongst five stages of detachment and wondering when we will stop having to revisit things from the past. 

I find myself at times (not so much now) going back and revisiting things.  Getting rid of all of the thought processes that I allowed to be indoctrinated/conditioned into me by her. 

Asking myself what I can do about it takes the power out of those thought processes that kept me stuck for so long.  The point I'm trying to raise is one that you have summed up pretty well.  We no longer have to live with those hot and cold, on and off behaviours.  Detaching from it takes the why out and puts us back in the present frame where were just doing what we do as it suits our morals best. 

We all move on at different speeds, if it takes you 2 months your doing well.  For me and many others its taken a fair bit longer and their is nothing wrong with that either. 


AJJ. 

[Deeno02]

I don't need permission for Sh*t when it comes to her. She made a choice. She has to live with it. I dont, even though it hurts like hell and will for sometime. As someone in another thread put it "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". 2 months in now and I've given up on the why part, I'll never know why she did what she did.

100 % correct.  A lot of us get stuck on this point though.  Floating along the scale moving between amongst five stages of detachment and wondering when we will stop having to revisit things from the past. 

I find myself at times (not so much now) going back and revisiting things.  Getting rid of all of the thought processes that I allowed to be indoctrinated/conditioned into me by her. 

Asking myself what I can do about it takes the power out of those thought processes that kept me stuck for so long.  The point I'm trying to raise is one that you have summed up pretty well.  We no longer have to live with those hot and cold, on and off behaviours.  Detaching from it takes the why out and puts us back in the present frame where were just doing what we do as it suits our morals best. 

We all move on at different speeds, if it takes you 2 months your doing well.  For me and many others its taken a fair bit longer and their is nothing wrong with that either. 


AJJ. 

Its funny AJJ, but its like a science experiment now. I revisit as we all should. Theres lessons to be learned everywhere in everything. Oh, Im far from having moved on, but I cant go back. In the military, the first thing you do when hit by an ambush is push through. Im pushing through, but still full of pain, guilt and shame. Its lessening, but still there. I cant and wont let her destroy me. Aint going to happen.

[Aussie JJ]

Its funny AJJ, but its like a science experiment now. I revisit as we all should. Theres lessons to be learned everywhere in everything. Oh, Im far from having moved on, but I cant go back. In the military, the first thing you do when hit by an ambush is push through. Im pushing through, but still full of pain, guilt and shame. Its lessening, but still there. I cant and wont let her destroy me. Aint going to happen.

I can relate to that 100%.  A good friend of mine that is now out, has some very interesting stories but one of the most frightening ones is of working overseas in 40+heat carrying 50-60kg packs on missions.  The way to save weight was to leave the armour plate out of the rear carrier.  The justification, when a ambush happens they move forward not backwards. 

Much the same in life, move forwards, take on those challenges, process the problems, counter them and attack the thought processes that are causing those problems. 


AJJ. 

[Mutt]

Oh, Im far from having moved on, but I cant go back. In the military, the first thing you do when hit by an ambush is push through. Im pushing through, but still full of pain, guilt and shame. Its lessening, but still there. I cant and wont let her destroy me. Aint going to happen.

I was knee deep in pain in early detachment and no contact. I came across a Churchill quote. It stuck with me and motivated me.

If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill

[Deeno02]

Oh, Im far from having moved on, but I cant go back. In the military, the first thing you do when hit by an ambush is push through. Im pushing through, but still full of pain, guilt and shame. Its lessening, but still there. I cant and wont let her destroy me. Aint going to happen.

I was knee deep in pain in early detachment and no contact. I came across a Churchill quote. It stuck with me and motivated me.

If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill

Yup!